The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Tauriel: possible flash sideways?



DwellerInDale
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 1:36pm


Views: 4430
Tauriel: possible flash sideways?

Sorry to be a bit stuck on Tauriel, but hey, I was a huge Kate fan, and was truly looking forward to seeing Evangeline as an elf. Like many, I was disappointed by the fact that the new structuring of the films apparently means that we won't see Tauriel until December 2013. I imagine many fans are also disappointed that we won't see Legolas as well. But then I got to thinking: just because the company doesn't enter Mirkwood in AUJ doesn't mean we won't see their characters in that film; nothing precludes a "Meanwhile, in Mirkwood..." scene. In fact, I think this may have the glimmer of a possibility. Here's my logic:

-In the trailer, we clearly see Radagast warning of a "dark power" making its way back into the world. This scene happens inside his home, Rhosgobel, located at the edge of Mirkwood. But who is he talking to? Gandalf? Yet in the book, Gandalf never leaves the party until _after_ the stay at Beorn's house. So either this scene is a flashback, or the timeline has been altered from the book, or Radagast is speaking to someone else. If I were a screenwriter, this would be the perfect way to kill two or more birds with one stone: if he is talking to Tauriel and / or Legolas, then we get to see them, and they then have a _reason_ for patrolling Mirkwood and encountering the dwarves in the first place.

What do you think?


Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 1:51pm


Views: 2909
Radagast is talking to his hedgehog friends.

No seriously, Gandalf leaves the party at Trollshaws.

Edit: unless you mean it's unlikely Gandalf could make the schlep all the way over to Radagast's and back in that time.

* crunch *

(This post was edited by Crunchable Birdses on Sep 25 2012, 1:59pm)


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 2:12pm


Views: 2834
Timeline clarification

Yes, Gandalf does leave the party at that point, but the book seems to indicate that this was only for a day or so: the dwarves notice Gandalf gone shortly before encountering the trolls; and when Thorin asks Gandalf where he went, we have the "To look ahead...looking behind" dialogue. Gandalf indicates he met friends from Rivendell, who were "hurrying for fear of the trolls". So he turns around and goes back to the company. Too little time, IMO, to have made the schlep over to Rhosgobel. Then again, he is a wizard...


grinman
Rivendell


Sep 25 2012, 2:40pm


Views: 2734
hmmm

I had assumed, from the trailer, that Radagast was speaking to Gandalf. Now, I'm not sure why I assumed this, but there's certainly a great opportunity to introduce some other characters in this scene.

A flash sideways would be an excellent way to show what's going on in other parts of middle earth concurrently with our main storyline. so, when the Dwarves do finally arrive at Mirkwood, the audience is all caught up with events that have been going on.

I'm not sure if that's the route the film-makers would take, but I wouldn't mind it!


stoutfiles
Rohan

Sep 25 2012, 2:50pm


Views: 2727
It's possible

TTT built up King Theoden before the Fellowship arrived. Who's to say we won't see Mirkwood before then, either, even if a main character doesn't go there.

However, in the book Mirkwood was a surprise so for that reason I'd prefer it and all the elves stay unrevealed till then.


grinman
Rivendell


Sep 25 2012, 2:55pm


Views: 2694
me too

I'd prefer that Mirkwood remain a surprise too, but from the footage we've already seen in the trailer, it seems that neither Mirkwood or even the spiders are going to be a surprise. So, since that will most likely be the case, I say why not show Legolas and Tauriel a bit earlier on... start introducing their character dynamic so that the real meat can be enjoyed in "The Desolation of Smaug" and "There and Back Again".


Escapist
Gondor


Sep 25 2012, 3:13pm


Views: 2695
weighing of competing value

satisfying the impatient desire of fans who don't want to wait vs keeping the number of new named important characters to a reasonable level in the first film ...

I think that it would make a lot more sense for Tauriel and/or Legolas to pounce upon the company of dwarves Haldir/Lorien-style if they had gotten information from Radagast (not ridiculous to think that elves from Mirkwood would be in contact with Radagast by the way). However, pouncing on the White Council but not the Dwarves along the road might be harder to sell. Furthermore, even a chance encounter between the WC and Legolas near Rhosgobel might be a bit incredulous unless Legolas is literally protecting Radagast's house instead of the forest in general on patrol. Maybe Legolas could track them to Rhosgobel - but chance encounters really do have a small chance of happening (and this would only be likely if Legolas was bound to or from Rhosgobel himself and had extra time). For example, Strider caught up with the hobbits by tracking them - not by sheer luck - and he was looking for them, specifically in the book. In the movie, Strider had a chance encounter (as far as we know) but it happened in an inn which is a very likely place to encounter a party of travels that one is looking for - much like a road is a likely place to encounter travelers.
Mirkwood is a very dense, challenging, and huge forest compared to Lorien. And even at that, there are rivers surrounding Lorien that are good places to spot travelers. Elves have good eyesight, but happening to just pick out a small group of travelers and stop some but not all - or track some but not all - or even spot them on their way in ... all of these are very questionable. Elves have very good eyesight but Thranduil's realm is quite far to the north and east and Lorien seems to be more concerned with the guarding of its own border ... furthermore I doubt that a wizard would need elves to guard his house for him - nor is it likely that Legolas would be the one to do it unless he had some reason for being quite close to Radagast (although it might be likely for Legolas to bring messages to and from Radagast). I doubt that the king's son would be chosen to settle in as a guard for a wizard's house even if Thranduil did offer that kind of protection for Radagast. I also am not convinced that it would be Mirkwood elves rather than Lorien elves that would consider such a move given Galadriel's place on the white council and the closer proximity of Lorien to the south and west of Mirkwood.

All of that being said, if there were to be changes made to the book such as the shifting of the location of Thranduil's halls, a shrinking of the vastness of Mirkwood, the relocation of Rhosgobel much closer to Thranduil in general, a stronger connection between Radagast and the Mirkwood elves being established, etc. Then something like this could be made to work, but at what cost and for what added value?


Eye's on Guard
Lorien


Sep 25 2012, 3:27pm


Views: 2657
And we should remember...

...that AUJ originally went up to "Barrels Out of Bond," so there might not have originally been enough time for earlier scenes of the Mirkwood elves. And since none of the extra filming is for AUJ, we know that if it wasn't in the first-of-two version, it isn't in the first-of-three.

However, if they shot EE scenes already, PJ could possibly steal from those.


In Reply To
However, in the book Mirkwood was a surprise so for that reason I'd prefer it and all the elves stay unrevealed till then.



DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 25 2012, 3:32pm


Views: 2641
She could always appear in a Mirkwood prologue

If they show Thranduil turning away the Dwarf exiles.

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DwellerInDale
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 3:53pm


Views: 2649
I'm a bit Lost by...

...the arguments you present. My hypothetical scenario never mentioned Tauriel and Legolas "pouncing on the White Council". For one thing, Radagast isn't at the WC, and secondly, the scene I referred to clearly takes place inside Rhosgobel. What I had envisioned was that the elves were summoned to Rhosgobel to hear Radagast's warning about the dark power. The logical messenger would be Legolas, since he represents his father (we know that later he will be the representative of the Mirkwood elves at the Council of Elrond). And Tauriel, as the self-described head of the elf guards, would be the perfect companion as added security.

An interesting related issue is, what happens after the spider breaks in? If Radagast is actually speaking to Gandalf, do they deal with it? This would be a perfect setup for two elf warriors to go up on the roof and kick some serious spider butt. Afterward they could look at each other as if to say "Whoa, we're in trouble now..."


ElendurTheFaithful
Rivendell

Sep 25 2012, 4:20pm


Views: 2605
Big Lilly fan

First time i saw Lilly back in 2004 Lost season 1, I was kinda sad that she just missed Middle Earth train because she looked to me like poster child elf from Tolkien universe (at least how i imagined them). So i was thrilled when she was cast for Hobbit, kinda felt like I cast her :). So yes, I wasn't happy that I wouldn't see "my protege" until part 2. But this thread got me thinking that I just might see her and rest of elves even for a little bit. NICE.


Escapist
Gondor


Sep 25 2012, 4:21pm


Views: 2587
clarity (I hope)

I was assuming that eventually the elves being at Rhosgobel would lead to the elves having a reason to join the Dol Guldur battle or something. Maybe I read your post wrong. But I was trying to think through how that may or may not work well - and what it would take to make that work vs what risks it might introduce as far as the credibility of the film.
  • I don't think it's a good idea to introduce characters hastily.
  • I don't think any additional characters should be included in film1 unless it is really necessary or adds a lot of value because there are already 2 dozen (or more) important named characters being introduced to the audience for the first time.
  • I don't think the logistics issues surrounding Mirkwood elves being in Rhosgobel are much easier to deal with than those involved with Gandalf being there (both would involve changes to the text and/or extra back-story - examples of which I gave in that last post - that's what it was largely about).
  • There isn't much time to do more filming and last-minute changes with only a few months left to go - so even ideas that don't carry these kinds of issues with them might have to get turned down at this point.
  • I think that two wizards could deal with a spider attack without help from elves considering Bilbo was able to handle them with his ring.
  • It also sounds like there are already issues with a struggle over trying to whittle the movie down to 2 hours for health/3D related reasons.



grinman
Rivendell


Sep 25 2012, 4:40pm


Views: 2550
I'm not sure...

I can see some of your points for sure, but I'm having trouble with a couple of them.

First, how are there "2 dozen (or more)" named characters being introduced? Bilbo (old), Frodo, Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel and Gollum are familiar to the audience. so, I don't see them as being "introduced"... except for young Bilbo. He will be given a proper and lengthy introduction. So, then we have 13 dwarves, Radagast, and....... I'm stumped. If you're referring to characters like The Goblin King or Thrain or Grinnah, Bolg, Azog, etc, then I don't see them getting much as far as introductions go. Also, Legolas will not need to be introduced. That leaves introducing only 1 new character.. Tauriel. If, as you say, there are 24 or more named characters, then what's 1 more?

I think that inroducing Tauriel in film one, even if it is in brief, would pay off hugely in film two. The audience would already be familiar and that would save some time in the second and third films to really flesh out her arc. So, even if it's hasty, it wouldn't be particularly unnecessary, especially if she's a more important character. Logistically, there are some problems... I'll give you that, but the screen writers are pretty smart. If they choose to go this route, I'm sure they'll find a way to make it work.

Also, I don't buy the whole "3D causes eye strain, so let's cut it down" argument. Avatar was ridiculously long and my eyes didn't get tired at all...

Now, having said all that, I don't necessarily buy the idea that we'll see Legolas or Tauriel before the second film. I'm just saying that it's not impossible or out of reason to think that we might see either/both of them in "An Unexpected Journey"... and the most likely place would be involving the Radagast story-line, somehow.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 25 2012, 4:54pm


Views: 2554
Probably not

I rather think he is talking to himself. He certainly doesn't seem to be looking at anyone else in the room.

LR


Escapist
Gondor


Sep 25 2012, 4:54pm


Views: 2545
characters

there was another thread where this was discussed but here's a list of what I had:

13 dwarves
Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond, Saruman, Radagast
Bilbo
Gollum
Frodo and old Bilbo
Goblin King and other named goblins
Necromancer
Thrain?
3 named trolls

Not all of these are equally important to the story but if there are already so many that are very important and so many that are there but not as important ... introducing Tauriel and Legolas should be done very carefully.

If they are already there (i.e. Legolas as a messenger in Imladris - this doesn't require much explanation and he probably will be recognized by much of the audience - and it could be done fairly seemlessly). If they are already at Rhosgobel and they decided it works and all the kinks of doing that are worked out, then it could be ok - but it isn't something I'd add in now at this point because it would require lots of logistics and connection work between Thranduil and Radagast or Legolas and Radagast or Tauriel and Radagast.


grinman
Rivendell


Sep 25 2012, 5:12pm


Views: 2543
again, not disagreeing..

I don't disagree with anything you're stating, except for your using the terms "named" and "introduced".

Gandalf, Saruman, Bilbo, Elrond, Galadriel, Frodo, Gollum (possibly Legolas) are all important named characters, but are not being "introduced" as they are already established in the LOTR trilogy. So, they won't require much as far as introduction... except bilbo.

as far as "named" characters go, sure the trolls have names, Thrain has a name, the goblin king, Grinnah(?),..they all have names, but will WE even know their names? Lurtz had a name, Grishnakh, and Sharku had names, but we didn't know them or need to know them. So, I'm sure we're splitting hairs here, but the only characters being REALLY introduced (that the audience will need to know) are:
Thorin, Balin, Dwalin, Fili, Kili, Bifur, Bofur, Bombur, Nori, Dori, Ori, Oin, Gloin, Bilbo, Radagast, Lord of the Eagles, Smaug and the Necromancer.. ?

That's actually fewer than were introduced in FOTR; Bilbo, Frodo, Sam, Merry, Pippin, Gandalf, Gollum, Isildur, Elendil, Aragorn, Arwen, Elrond, Sauron, Ringwraiths, Arwen, Legolas, Gimli, Boromir, Saruman, Galadriel and Haldir. Not to mention all the other "named" characters whose names don't matter; Celeborn, Lurtz, Barliman, Proudfoot, Sackville-bagginses, Gaffer, etc...

It's not such a stretch to introduce Tauriel in film one... IF they go that route.


Escapist
Gondor


Sep 25 2012, 5:24pm


Views: 2526
uncertainty and split ends

on hairs ...

... won't change the fact that there are about 2 dozen (or more) or so odd characters already. When there are that many new characters, adding additional characters must be done carefully. When this close to the release of the film, changes of any kind must be done only as needed. I don't see the need here and if Legolas and Tauriel aren't already in it, I don't think that now is the time to add them in. Any one additional character or change could be "the straw that broke the camel's back". Getting to know 15 adventurers all at one time is a big deal and the target audience shouldn't be assumed to "already know" the characters from LOTR on more than the level of basic recognition (if even that).

I have a feeling that the 3 trolls have become less of "characters" and the white council has been severely cut back in membership because of this issue. If this is the case, then adding new characters in is tricky business! If Tauriel and Legolas already appear in Rivendell as part of what the White Council scenes were already involved with then that is probably fine. If a whole new story between Thranduil and Radagast is already developed and worked out then that is probably stretching it but it could work. Adding or changing this kind of stuff now just seems like a bad idea.


grinman
Rivendell


Sep 25 2012, 5:53pm


Views: 2506
Certainly!

Yes, I whole-heartedly agree!! If Legolas and/or Taureil weren't initially intended to be included at that point in the film, then yes, they shouldn't be shoe-horned in at this point in production. I see now that were discussing different issues entirely! I was going with the assumption that the film-makers could possible have intended to introduce them earlier from the get go. That perhaps we would have seen Legriel with Radagast or in some Mirkwood scenes. You were talking about the film-makers adding in a scene so that these characters would be introduced in the first film. I can agree that this would be a bad idea!

I think we probably won't have to worry about this issue at all... but we'll see!


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 5:59pm


Views: 2492
introductions

although WE know our "returning" characters (Gollum, Bilbo, Gandalf, etc.) as a filmmaker you can't assume that every audience member knows who they are. These are seperate films from Lord of the Rings and should be able to stand alone if you've never seen those films.

It would seem odd for the film to take for granted that we know who they are...

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Sep 25 2012, 6:08pm


Views: 2493
I wouldn't have minded something like this

and even suggested something similar in another thread...however, apparently the Apple App for the TH trilogy pretty much definitively excludes Lilly, Bloom or Pace from the cast for AUJ, meaning that they very likely will not appear in the film in any capacity.

However, agreed that establishing the goings-on in Mirkwood, ALA the early introduction for Rohan/Theoden/Eowyn/Eomer/Wormtongue in TTT, could well have worked if done right (and added more content to AUJ); I mean, we are going to see a spider attack on Rhosgobel, which I can't help but feel will seem disconnected from the rest of the film - revolving around Bilbo, Gandy and Thorin as it does.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Ffnir
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 6:13pm


Views: 2485
The spider

I think the spider will be the illustration of the influence of the "dark power" growing in the forest. I know that in the books spiders are not connected to the necromancer, but evil creature tend to be more active as the power of a dark lord grow stronger.


burgahobbit
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 6:30pm


Views: 2507
Back before the films split to three

Evangeline Lilly said that we would see a little bit of her at the end of film 1, and the rest of her in film 2. Now that the end of film 1 has been brought forward to the eagle rescue, we'll have to wait until the 2nd film to see Legolas/Tauriel/Thanduil etc.


Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 25 2012, 6:39pm


Views: 2494
Why in the world

is everybody so juiced for the onscreen appearance for a bogus made-up character PBJ simply pulled out of their - er, made up out of thin air? One for whom there is no warrant in the text whatsoever, and who is so totally out of keeping with Tolkien's world?

Sheesh, at least Dreamboat Leggy is a genuine Elf of Mirkwood, even if T hadn't invented him at the time.


burgahobbit
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 6:49pm


Views: 2475
I'm not

Considering that Evangeline Lilly said this:

Quote

"I am very concerned that people will watch and I'll be the black mark on the film. I know how adamant the purists are and I'm one of them."



If Tauriel does turn out to be that bad, at least AUJ will be free of her, but for now I will reserve my judgment. After all she could very well be saying all that just for insurance in case it turns out to be true.


(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Sep 25 2012, 6:51pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 25 2012, 6:50pm


Views: 2490
One big problem

The official cast list excludes both Evangeline Lilly and Orlando Bloom from AUJ...


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 25 2012, 6:52pm


Views: 2242
And I don't see how she could be detrimental to the film

She must be on screen for about 10 minutes (on and off). That's hardly enough time to ruin a film!

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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 25 2012, 6:52pm


Views: 2245
And

I hope we see as little of her and Bloom as possible. So if we can have a whole film without them, I'll be pleased.

Though I am very much looking forward to seeing Pace's Thranduil...


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 25 2012, 6:56pm


Views: 2258
There are at least a few reasons --

Speaking only for myself, it appears to me that she will be an interesting character and I like the options her inclusion provides the story adapters.

Speaking more generally, her inclusion is consistent with the version of Middle-earth PJ established in LOTR.



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Ffnir
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 7:00pm


Views: 2234
The army of the dead did.

They extended their role for not much more than 10min and it ruined a whole part of the film.

But it's different since PJ said that he didn't wanted to show the army of the dead in the films but did it for the fans. For Tauriel it's seems to be the exact opposite.


Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 25 2012, 7:05pm


Views: 2217
How much screen time...

...did the Osgiliation take? How long did it take pseudo-Denethor to ruin big chunks of film?


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 25 2012, 7:05pm


Views: 2221
Ahh, but that is an entire plot (and important plot at that)

Not a minor character.

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Ffnir
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 7:06pm


Views: 2213
I agree

I don't think they would take the risk of including a non-canon character if they hadn't work hard to make her credible and interesting.
And in more than six hour of movie, it will be good to see at least one unbearded woman. ^^


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 25 2012, 7:06pm


Views: 2203
Good point

Biggest mistake in all three films, IMO.

Though unless Tauriel brings with her an army of invincible green zombified LOST cast members, her contribution should be less ruinous...

At least I hope so...


Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 25 2012, 7:07pm


Views: 2250
OK, so Evangeline Lilly did say

"I know how adamant the purists are and I'm one of them."

But she also said, "Peter and Fran know that world so well. Theyre not going to create a character that is not true to Tolkiens world."-- which rather tarnishes her purist credentials.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 25 2012, 7:07pm


Views: 2210
Again ... these are major plot lines

That, for whatever reason, fell flat on their face in the films. Tauriel is a minor character, who will do more fighting than talking. Almost impossible to ruin the entire trilogy!

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Ffnir
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 7:07pm


Views: 2224
We don't know what plot Tauriel could bring with her... /

 


(This post was edited by Ffnir on Sep 25 2012, 7:09pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 25 2012, 7:08pm


Views: 2210
I don't think its clear

That Tauriel will be a minor character.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 25 2012, 7:09pm


Views: 2220
She's minor in comparison to the rest of the cast.

Major character in comparison to the hedgehogs and bunnies ...

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DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 25 2012, 7:10pm


Views: 2236
What major plot could she have? /

 

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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 25 2012, 7:12pm


Views: 2193
But by that definition

So was Denethor, Faramir, Eomer and Eowyn.

You cannot rule out the possibility that her role could be as substantive as theirs.

Not saying it will be, but it is certainly within the realm of possibility.


Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 25 2012, 7:14pm


Views: 2218
I'm dreadfully afraid

That she's going to give Bilbo the keys/release the Dwarves herself and play a major role in the barrel-escape.

It would be a typically Jacksonian piece of vandali- er, change.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 25 2012, 7:15pm


Views: 2195
I'd say it's comparable to Denethor and Eomer

But not Eowyn and Faramir. They have more screentime. Tauriel is heavily restricted to Mirkwood and BO5A - she won't get that much exposure.

Obviously, these are only my thoughts. Smile Nothing to say they're right ...

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Ffnir
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 7:15pm


Views: 2229
Well...

She could be the one who help the hobbits and dwarves to escape thranduil's palace, since she replace the drunk guard captain. And who knows, it might be because she's not as indifferent to kilik's charm as she first thought


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 25 2012, 7:17pm


Views: 2206
This is just speculation at the moment though

She may well do. It might work. It might not. I still say that wouldn't be detrimental to the entire film, though.

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Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 25 2012, 7:19pm


Views: 2204
she won't get that much exposure.

...except in that lesbian scene with Galadriel


Escapist
Gondor


Sep 25 2012, 7:20pm


Views: 2226
If there is a risk associated with including Tauriel and Legolas

then that means that their inclusion needs to be handled carefully (very, very carfully).

So again, if they are in Rivendell - an already credible and established place for them to be as messengers of Thranduil who would very credibly have some input into things in some way. If they are with Rhosgobel and plenty of time, thought, input, and editing was involved in the whole process - it could work (I'll have to see it to judge).

However, messing around with Radagast in some way which leads to storylines that are entirely invented in a way that glaringly stands out is exactly the kind of really risky way of handling them which could lead to the exact thing Lily expressed fears about if time isn't allowed for editing and careful review of what it turns out to look like.

It is really all about the how here. So if they are in Mirkwood (probably film2), I think it is a nearly automatic pass. If they are in Rivendell (probably film1), that probably passes too as long as their role stays close to the role Legolas had in FOTR and fits with either the story line of the dwarves or with the WC. Start messing around too much and you could get a bomb - especially if the messing around happens after the point where there is still time to do any tweaking or fixing of what you wind up with. And this is the point we are at right now.

I have never been against including Tauriel and Legolas in TH movies and I think they will potentially add a lot to the Mirkwood elves' storyline. I think Legolas could be in Rivendell, at DG, or at BO5A and that it depends more on execution than anything. Over the past few months I have been really open to all kinds of ideas about them. But this is not the time for introducing new ideas involving those two in film1, in my opinion, because anything that is done with them should go through a careful review and editing process precisely because of the sensitivities involved. We're not talking about some light re-takes or an extra song here ... this isn't such an automatic thing to change so close to the deadlines that people need to work with. Something like this could really affect everything about the movie. Working on this instead of perfecting CGI, marketing, songs, and editing could wreck the whole thing.

I, personally, think it's time to start thinking instead about how Lego and Taury will work their magic in film2.


Escapist
Gondor


Sep 25 2012, 7:22pm


Views: 2206
The interesting thing about that is

that people are assuming that there needs to be extra scenes added.

If they are listed as being in film1, then they are already in it. If they aren't in it then ... I say take the film as it is and move on with editing and everything else that needs to be done to give it a proper finish.


ElendurTheFaithful
Rivendell

Sep 25 2012, 7:25pm


Views: 2198
a

"is everybody so juiced for the onscreen appearance for a bogus made-up character PBJ simply pulled out of their - er, made up out of thin air? One for whom there is no warrant in the text whatsoever, and who is so totally out of keeping with Tolkien's world?

Sheesh, at least Dreamboat Leggy is a genuine Elf of Mirkwood, even if T hadn't invented him at the time."


read hobbit book for once. she's captain of the guard.



Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Sep 25 2012, 7:27pm


Views: 2239
Agreed, and I think the possibilities for Tauriel are:

- Capture of Thorin & Co. - and fighting Spiders with the Dwarves beforehand?

- Involved with "Barrels out of Bond" in some capacity (hence Lilly demonstrating she had to learn how to say "the cells are empty" in Elvish last year)

- Probably some development within the Wood Elves' halls, scenes between her and Legolas and/or Thranduil? It's been hinted Kili becomes obsessed with her, and she was also mentioned as being obsessed with an young Elf Lord of Rivendell at some point (not sure who this would be if it's even still in the films? Lindir? Elros? A minor character yet to be revealed? Personally, this seems like it's fallen by the wayside to me, perhaps in the transition from S. Ronan/Itaril to E. Lilly/Tauriel)

- I suspect the Wood Elves/Legolas/Tauriel will play a part in the Necromancer storyline, perhaps even the Battle of Dol Guldur itself (thought Leggy's Bridge Direct description implies this is without Thranduil's concent); we know she fights Orcs with Legolas at some point, Orcs who wear armor/outfits which would seem to designate them as serving Azog/the Necromancer (such as on Fimbul in the leaked pic of his action figure)

- Possibly BoFA (Lilly mentioned having to fight massive Orcs - possibly either Azog or Bolg's bodyguard)?

Not saying all of these will happen, but probably at least half of them will...so personally, I see her as fairly comparable to Eowyn or Faramir in terms of screentime/development.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Sep 25 2012, 7:28pm)


Ffnir
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 7:29pm


Views: 2174
Poor kilik...

...and poor middle earth : they're the only two women in the film, exept for some bearded dwarves girl.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 25 2012, 7:30pm


Views: 2310
They are not listed on the official cast list for AUJ

So it looks like we may wait until TDOS to see them.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 25 2012, 7:34pm


Views: 2280
Convincing

And since you're probably right, depressing. Wink


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 25 2012, 7:34pm


Views: 2310
You know it's funny

I can't recall a single post about Alfrid naked or in any sort of sexual situation yet I have read lots of posts, indeed whole threads elsewhere, regarding these aspects of Tauriel.

LR


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Sep 25 2012, 7:35pm


Views: 2272
A minor character who merits an action figure, it would seem. //

 

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Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 25 2012, 7:36pm


Views: 2285
I don't think that proves anything, does it?

A figure is a figure. They make them to make money. Everything that appears in the film will eventually be turned into a figure. Wink

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Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 25 2012, 7:37pm


Views: 2290
And why do you think that might be?

 


Ffnir
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 7:38pm


Views: 2281
There is a reason to that !

If the hobbit were originally a book with zero male character, the addition of alfrid would have generated a lot of these jokes.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 25 2012, 7:38pm


Views: 2315
I'm sure posters and readers will draw their own conclusions.

 


Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 25 2012, 7:40pm


Views: 2292
Oh, I assure you,

I have read the book many, many, many many times (as well as the drafts), and there is NO "Tauriel" or female guard-captain in it.


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Sep 25 2012, 7:41pm


Views: 2261
Or she could be more along the lines of Gamling

Who was at as many events, if I recall correctly.



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DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 25 2012, 7:41pm


Views: 2257
He's just as made up as Tauriel though

And he could just as easily "ruin" the plot of Laketown or the Master, as Tauriel could to the plot of Mirkwood.

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Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 25 2012, 7:46pm


Views: 2302
You're ducking

If you're going to play the Chauvanist Card, at least do so without the feigned coyness.

Unfortunately, you're stuck with a reality you really don't want to admit. PBJ invented this character for one or both of two reasons:

a) affirmative action, and/or
b) cheesecake

She's a Seven of Nine, and you know it.


Ffnir
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 7:50pm


Views: 2285
I personally think they will both be great

Tauriel and Alfrid will add some life to Thranduil's palace and laketown. Lord of the rings was already full of character, but in the hobbit i think it was absolutely necessary to add some since there were very few of them. In laketown there were only the Master, Bard (who is introduced just before laketown is destroyed) and the others. It was a good idea to add a minor character. Same thing with tauriel : Legolas would have seemed quite lonely if he was the only elf kicking ass in the movies


(This post was edited by Ffnir on Sep 25 2012, 7:54pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 25 2012, 7:51pm


Views: 2266
At least we agree over something then ;-) /

 

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Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Sep 25 2012, 7:52pm


Views: 2248
I suppose it's possible, but IMO they wouldn't cast a "name" actress in a Gamling-sized role. //

 

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Sep 25 2012, 7:53pm


Views: 2252
Agreed based on what we know thus far. //

 

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Ffnir
Rohan


Sep 25 2012, 7:53pm


Views: 2257
I disagree

You can't say that before you saw the movie, I'm sure it will be a quite well written character since they really risking to upset fans with her addition in the movie. They wouldn't do it just for affirmative action or cheesecake


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 25 2012, 8:03pm


Views: 2272
Ha, much as I don't like

Authorial guesswork neither of those terms would feature if I did.

Alas I am not familiar with star trek so I cannot comment on the specific.

LR


Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 25 2012, 8:12pm


Views: 2237
How much "life" does a prison need?

After all, that's the role Thranduil's caves play in the story. The emotional atmosphere, if you will, of the segment is the intense loneliness of the Dwarves in solitary confinement and of Bilbo in his furtive sneaking.


Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 25 2012, 8:15pm


Views: 2283
As Dean Wormer

didn't say, "Hiding your head under the covers is no way to go through life."


In Reply To
neither of those terms would feature if I did


Well, PB admitted to it, even if not in those precise words.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 25 2012, 8:20pm


Views: 2246
No, no she didn't

I'm afraid we have very different of the concepts under discussion. Funnily enough along similar lines to the other discussion now that I think of it.

LR


Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 25 2012, 8:37pm


Views: 2232
Oh, yes she did

In PB's own words:

Quote
So she immediately brings a very powerful feminine energy into the film... we did feel the weight of it being a boys own story. After a while, youd feel the weight of it. And we did create a character. Her names Tauriel. We created her for that reason. To bring that energy into the film, that feminine energy.



Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 25 2012, 8:43pm


Views: 2237
And you think that is "affirmative action"?

Goodness I don't think I can possibly unpick that far enough to begin to move forward. I did wonder if you were referring to that quote but decided you couldn't possibly be!

I'll leave some space for others to comment so that this avoids becoming a back and forth.

Besides I have embroidery to get back to and these bras don't burn themselves.

LR


Escapist
Gondor


Sep 25 2012, 8:51pm


Views: 2230
brainstorm

If it must be that Tauriel is in the first movie, then I would consider one of the following:
  1. She brought the cute hamsters to Radagast after finding them injured in some way by the shadow.
  2. She is with Legolas and they both are settled nicely into the WC storyline - making a connection to Thranduil's realm.
  3. She brings summons or news from Thranduil to Radagast (maybe separate from Legolas or maybe with him).
... and possibly both 1. and 3.

I'm reminded of a time when I received some strange advice from a drunken man.
"You don't want to be too good, people like to have something on you." Maybe that CGI can be perfect for the next films instead, right? And maybe much of the second film is almost ready anyway.

Affirmative action Wink


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 25 2012, 9:24pm


Views: 2255
10cc of Judith Butler, STAT!

Laugh

Seriously, I do hope the discussions that lead to Tauriel's inclusion ranged further than PB's off the cuff response implies. Actually I'm willing to bet that they did.

I'm not a fan of tokenism... and the girl power trope is lately but a caricature of its former self (plus is too predictable). Regardless, I'm all for Tauriel and look forward to seeing where she takes us.

The biggest hurdle that Tauriel should have to clear is that she's an invented character. However, she is only one of a dozen or so invented, added in where they weren't before, or expanded characters that we've heard about. Yet I see relatively little disparagement of PB over the others. Why is this I wonder?



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(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Sep 25 2012, 9:25pm)


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 25 2012, 9:26pm


Views: 2253
Indeed

and she doesnt even look like an elf, and I should know. Wink Dont care how good that stunt double chick looked, Lily is much too modern looking. I am actually dreading her flying through the air like the Last Methane Bender.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 25 2012, 9:29pm


Views: 2266
Even if there's an audible toot as she takes off?

Someone posted an aversion to fart jokes recently... could't resist.Wink



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Escapist
Gondor


Sep 25 2012, 9:29pm


Views: 2249
I think it is a good idea to add Tauriel in to fill out Mirkwood.

But I wasn't thinking any additional characters needed to be created to fill out the characters in AUJ - male, female, dwarf, elf, man or otherwise. In fact it rather seemed that with the inclusion of the WC plot and the perspective of the goblins (and key WC members appearing to be cut - and Tom, Bert and Will looking a bit less like speaking character roles).

On the other hand, the end of The Hobbit with the events in Mirkwood and Laketown and the additional dwarves that show up is screaming for new named characters to sort of personalize the stories of the people that happen there. But all of that isn't part of AUJ from what I could gather.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 25 2012, 9:30pm


Views: 2245
A sage prescription!

Though I think moving from sex to gender might be a bit much for us at the moment.

LR


Escapist
Gondor


Sep 25 2012, 9:31pm


Views: 2244
I think Lily makes a great elf lady //

 


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 25 2012, 9:37pm


Views: 2223
maybe she lights one

and blows the doors of the Dwarves prison? Crazy


Beutlin
Rivendell

Sep 25 2012, 9:43pm


Views: 2301
Please do not confuse feminism with Judith Butler's writings.

There is more to feminism than bad writing and antisemitism.

Ceterum censeo montem artis magicae atrae esse delendum.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 25 2012, 9:58pm


Views: 2243
It is very unlikely...


In Reply To
No seriously, Gandalf leaves the party at Trollshaws.

Edit: unless you mean it's unlikely Gandalf could make the schlep all the way over to Radagast's and back in that time.



The Trollshaws are west of the Misty Mountains. Radagast's home of Rhosgobel is east of the mountains, in or near Mirkwood. If Gandalf meets up with Radagast at this point in the story then it is because Raddy was out looking for him, not at home.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White


ElendurTheFaithful
Rivendell

Sep 25 2012, 10:03pm


Views: 2225
a

"I have read the book many, many, many many times (as well as the drafts), and there is NO "Tauriel" or female guard-captain in it"


troubling your little world doesn't it. Instead of CAPTAIN OF THE GUARD we get FEMALE CAPTAIN OF THE GUARD. horror. jackson's out of control. tolkien's rolling in his grave right now. blasphemy. will we ever smile again?



SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 25 2012, 10:18pm


Views: 2199
In that case, Rebecca Walker if you prefer...

I agree there is more to the subject than one person's views.Evil

In any event I'm more familiar with Stuart Hall than either of them -- "Oppositional Code" from his Reception Theory seems especially relevant to this discussion:

It is possible for a viewer perfectly to understand both the literal and connotative inflection given to an event, but to determine to decode the message in a globally contrary way. (Wiki saves the day again.)



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Escapist
Gondor


Sep 25 2012, 10:21pm


Views: 2203
The way a person chooses to take something is their call.

And by that power they shape the reality they know. I remember an example of someone who decidedly took everything in the most positive way possible and I watched him win many people over. It didn't always work but ... he didn't seem to care!


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 25 2012, 10:29pm


Views: 2191
99% sure that Tauriel and Legolas are NOT in AUJ

They have been omitted from both the official cast lists, and the synopsis.

Curious as to why we're still entertaining the idea as a likely one.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 25 2012, 10:30pm


Views: 2173
He's an unknown actor, with very little experience

So it is highly unlikely that his role will be as large as Tauriel's.

In any event, I almost dislike his original character description more than Tauriel's. "Cunning civil servant" or something like that. Sounds like a bad cliche just begging for the cutting room floor.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 25 2012, 10:31pm


Views: 2177
Agreed

I mean there's a slight chance they might surprise us... but according to available info and images it'll be another year and a bit before we see them in action.



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Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Sep 25 2012, 11:14pm


Views: 2174
I think that that role will be filled not by her

but by Legolas, who will then take the opportunity to abandon his father's kingdom in favor of fighting the good fight in the "big picture" via assisting the White Council in the Dol Guldur Episode. Tauriel will be a more savage isolationist and will remain in Mirkwood and take part in the Bo5A

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


Solicitr
Lorien

Sep 26 2012, 1:16am


Views: 2155
Give us a few weeks

So much crap, so little time.Evil


In Reply To
Yet I see relatively little disparagement of PB over the others. Why is this I wonder?


Why the early attention to this particular made-up garbage character as opposed to the others? Because in this case the pandering is so obvious.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 26 2012, 1:44am


Views: 2181
It takes fresher bait than that.

Actually I've enjoyed this and similar discussions over the past few days. But we should be careful about vague aspersions, made even in jest.



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Ffnir
Rohan


Sep 26 2012, 2:04am


Views: 2135
It could work, but

It would then be a shame the way Gimli yell at Legolas at Elrond's counsel, knowing that he is the one who freed his father


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 26 2012, 7:22am


Views: 2129
I suspect (and I know others do as well) Alfrid will be the Grima of The Hobbit.

No, he probably won't have as much screentime, but both plots could easily ruin TDOS.

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macfalk
Valinor


Sep 26 2012, 8:23am


Views: 2088
Garbage character

For real? Have you seen the movie? I certainly haven't. You dismiss a character as 'garbage' without actually having seen this character in action?



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


macfalk
Valinor


Sep 26 2012, 8:25am


Views: 2088
Cunning civil servant

Sounds like Wormtongue!



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


macfalk
Valinor


Sep 26 2012, 8:28am


Views: 2100
Evangeline Lilly - Not A Real Purist?

We have a new TORN-acronym! NARP.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

(This post was edited by macfalk on Sep 26 2012, 8:30am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 26 2012, 8:56am


Views: 2069
Obvious to you, at least...


In Reply To
Why the early attention to this particular made-up garbage character as opposed to the others? Because in this case the pandering is so obvious.



I really don't see the alteration of the gender of the Wood-elf captain and giving her a name (as well as expanding her role) as necessarily pandering. Jackson may have given her a good reason to take up a bow instead of marrying and having children; maybe Tauriel is incapable of having children so that defending the kingdom is her contribution to the common good. Perhaps we should wait to actually see her on film before we judge the character too harshly.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 26 2012, 10:10am


Views: 2075
Toys


In Reply To

Curious as to why we're still entertaining the idea as a likely one.


A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 26 2012, 10:16am


Views: 2057
I suspect Alfrid exists

To give The Master someone to expound his evil plans too.

Why does the Master need his role expanded?

Because BARD most defiantly needs his role expanded.

Which means he needs an antagonist.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 26 2012, 11:06am


Views: 2222
hence

3 films instead of 2.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 26 2012, 7:19pm


Views: 2156
Too many "musts" in there

Good filmmakers know the rules of script-writing, and film-making, but also know when and how to break them.

There are no real "musts" in film.


Jettorex
Lorien


Sep 26 2012, 7:52pm


Views: 2160
What?!?

How is the reasoning for including Tauriel for "afirmative action" and/or "cheesecake"?

PB herself gave us the answer-simply: there aren't enough female charactors/"energy". Whats so hard to understand?

And what is a "Seven of Nine"?


- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."


My Book---> www.amazon.com/Popcornmaker


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 26 2012, 9:03pm


Views: 2175
Toys...

Warner Bros. survived the African-American Robin action figure when the character never appeared in Batman Returns. It is not going to be that a big deal to have the Tauriel and Legolas figures associated with An Unexpected Journey.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 26 2012, 9:07pm


Views: 2147
FYI


In Reply To
And what is a "Seven of Nine"?



Seven of Nine was the former Borg, played by actress Jeri Ryan, who was taken aboard the Federation starship Voyager in the Star Trek: Voyager television series.

You're welcome.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Sep 26 2012, 9:10pm


Views: 2185
As far as I'm aware, Leggy and Tauriel are the only AUJ figures

possibly along with Fimbul, which will not appear in Film 1 - everyone else is accounted for. So agreed, it seems like just a discrepancy as a result of the late-in-the-day trilogy shift.

A far more subtle example as Grima's TTT figure coming with a dagger, despite the fact we never actually saw this particular prop until 2 years later with the RotK:EE.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 27 2012, 2:27pm


Views: 2114
I was disappointed to discover that the title of this thread

didn't refer to her costume...

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Phibbus
Rohan


Sep 27 2012, 2:37pm


Views: 2105
Hehe

Incorrigible male that I am, I must confess I would find that a more satisfying reveal.

Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 27 2012, 9:58pm


Views: 2091
specially

now she has burnt all her leather Xenabras.Blush


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 28 2012, 4:16am


Views: 2085
Lilly revealed from the right side

[inline elillyside.jpg]



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SirDennisC
Half-elven


Sep 28 2012, 4:30am


Views: 2093
Okay maybe it will work this time

Sorry to keep you waiting...




(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Sep 28 2012, 4:31am)


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 28 2012, 1:29pm


Views: 2092
she is very very pretty

but she aint an elf. Crazy
this is an elf. IMO she is haunting and ethereal and Elven not Hollywood hottie and commercial.

-- Waaaaaay oversized pic edited out - from the TORn FAQ:

The specific guidelines for posting pictures within the message body of your post are as follows: the maximum size of any picture posted should be 525 wide x 400 pixels high (or a better measure is: 210,000 pixels squared - width x height), but no wider than 670 pixels. The maximum file size per picture should be 45k. The cumulative file size of all pictures in one post should not exceed 225k (5 pictures of the maximum filesize of 45k, 10 pictures of a filesize of 22.5k, etc.). These guidelnes apply to pictures hosted on other sites as well as to pictures posted as attachments to your post. For more detailed help on posting within a message body, check out Magpie's step-by-step TORn Image Posting Guide.

Thanks!



(This post was edited by Altaira on Sep 29 2012, 4:09pm)


Escapist
Gondor


Sep 28 2012, 1:50pm


Views: 2065
Because all elves look exactly like that picture you just showed us ...

I definitely think a more eastern avari mix / sylvan elf (not the same as the kind of elf Galadriel is or the kind of elf Legolas is) could look like this:

http://www.bestcelebritypictures.com/photos/evangeline-lilly-2983.jpg

Tongue

I think it is better to distinguish the elves of Mirkwood (besides their sindar rulers) than to try to match them to Galadriel's features (as beautiful and examplary an elf as she may be).


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Sep 28 2012, 3:16pm


Views: 2084
A clone army?

Wait, I think I'm in the wrong franchise again...

Cool



My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 28 2012, 4:27pm


Views: 2045
er

no not all Elves look like Alba Rohrwacher, that would be silly. Wink


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 28 2012, 4:34pm


Views: 2055
Agreed 100%

Lilly is far too "hot American girl next door" for Middle Earth.

A more classical beauty, such as Cate Blanchett, yet with a slightly wilder and less refined edge, should have been chosen.

They have been pretty good on casting, but the choice of Lilly is baffling.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 28 2012, 8:13pm


Views: 2039
yes baffling

if PJ does one thing right its casting. He got perfect casting for LOTR, the only one I didnt much like was Faramir, not because I didnt like the actor, because he did a good job, nonwithstanding the character changes. The casting for the Hobbit also seems good per se without having seen anyone properly act yet, but this Tauriel thing is mind boggling. I mean obviously she is pretty and maybe most people wont notice, but she looks like she has walked straight out of Eragon, or Legend of the Seeker. Made for tv stuff, certainly not classic, and certainly not Tolkien, but what do I know? I could be wrong.


Laitholiel_the_SeaElf
Lorien


Sep 29 2012, 4:46am


Views: 2062
It is just so very, very unfortunate...

...that "Testosterone Island" has only one inhabitant when "Estrogen Island" has so many. Come on PJ, can't you create a few more female characters? Evangeline is lonely.




But you are what you love,
And not what loves you back.
And I'm in love with illusions
So saw me in half.
I'm in love with tricks
So pull another rabbit out your hat.




Tim
Tol Eressea


Sep 29 2012, 2:16pm


Views: 2025
To each their own I suppose

I've seen both Eragon and Legend of the Seeker and the picture of Tauriel didn't remind me of either.

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 29 2012, 2:59pm


Views: 2006
I did think they might make a couple of the main dwarves female

But the beards make it difficult to tell.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 29 2012, 3:42pm


Views: 2026
Can't be wrong about your impressions!

Smile

That's precisely how I feel about her look. Even Liv Tyler was much more of a classic beauty.

I think with Lilly's casting, the film-makers are overdoing the distinction between the Avari and the rest. I fear what the rest of the background elves look like.


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 30 2012, 8:08am


Views: 2002
I don't see it.

I see nothing in her appearance to contradict anything in Tolkien's description of elves.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 30 2012, 11:26am


Views: 1998
well it doesnt contradict Tolkiens

description of Elves, but it does kinda contradict PJs version of Elves. You may as well have Lindsay Lohan, she has a cute freckly face with rubber lips and long red hair. Probably cheaper wages too, you could pay her in booze and fags. Sly


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 30 2012, 2:20pm


Views: 1981
I don't see how.

She has the usual number of eyes, noses, mouths, ears, etc, in all the usual places. I really don't see any difference between her and Cate Blanchett.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 30 2012, 6:03pm


Views: 1989
Screen presence


Quote
She has the usual number of eyes, noses, mouths, ears, etc, in all the usual places. I really don't see any difference between her and Cate Blanchett.



Evangeline Lilly doesn't seem as though she could achieve the same kind of ethereal presence as Cate Blanchett's Galadriel. On the other hand, Tauriel is a Silvan Elf, not Noldor. It is arguable that she should be earthier than Lady Galadriel.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 30 2012, 6:56pm


Views: 1970
I am just going off what

I have seen from PJ. Legolas isnt earthy and Thranduil isnt earthy, I just assumed there would be some cohesive aesthetic with the Mirkwood Elves? Although in the books they were more rustic, I think PJ is going for, wears green = rustic. I just dont get the choice of actress, its my problem I guess.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 30 2012, 7:00pm


Views: 1992
Thranduil and Legolas are also not Silvan Elves


In Reply To
I have seen from PJ. Legolas isnt earthy and Thranduil isnt earthy, I just assumed there would be some cohesive aesthetic with the Mirkwood Elves? Although in the books they were more rustic, I think PJ is going for, wears green = rustic. I just dont get the choice of actress, its my problem I guess.



Thranduil rules over the Wood-elves of Mirkwood, but he and his son are Sindar-elves. Tauriel is the first authentic Wood-elf that we meet.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 30 2012, 8:25pm


Views: 1954
You mean the presence

achieved with makeup and elaborate lighting?

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 30 2012, 10:33pm


Views: 1953
Screen presence


In Reply To
You mean the presence achieved with makeup and elaborate lighting?



There is something to be said for personal presence too. Not every actor or actress has it to the same degree. Makeup and lighting can achieve a lot, but it still comes down to the ability of the individual to capture the audience's attention.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 30 2012, 10:35pm)


Tim
Tol Eressea


Oct 1 2012, 12:57am


Views: 1948
Liv Tyler

I didn't think she's be able to pull off Arwen, yet she did for me. That (and many other lessons learned) have taught me to wait for the finished product before I rush to judgement.

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 1 2012, 4:12am


Views: 1944
Your point?


In Reply To
I didn't think she's be able to pull off Arwen, yet she did for me. That (and many other lessons learned) have taught me to wait for the finished product before I rush to judgement.



I'm not rushing to judgement either. Maybe you are thinking of the post that I was responding to.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White


Tim
Tol Eressea


Oct 1 2012, 4:24am


Views: 1943
I think I made my point very clear.

And it was about me, and no one else.

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 1 2012, 4:28am


Views: 1966
Your post seemed to imply that we were in disagreement....

If I misread your intent then I apologize, but my impression was that our point-of-views were pretty much the same.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White


Fardragon
Rohan

Oct 1 2012, 7:37am


Views: 1953
As Elisebeth I

Dame Judy Dench manages to pull off more presence than Cate Blanchett.

And I agree about Liv Tyler. Based on her performance in Armageddon, you would never pin her as an elf.

It's called acting. Some people are better at it than others, but you can't judge it by looking at a them.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


Jettorex
Lorien


Oct 1 2012, 9:50pm


Views: 1924
I don't know...

She looks rather elf like to me especially a Silvan elf. I think she looks a tad less ethereal and classic than Cate and Liv which would seem in line for a wood elf. She has more of an earthy natural beauty IMHO.
Even her real name sounds like a wood elf. Evangeline Lilly.


- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."


My Book---> www.amazon.com/Popcornmaker


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Oct 1 2012, 11:35pm


Views: 1949
I understand that

But the rather Hollywood "girl next door" look does not, IMO, translate into "wood elf."

But I will wait to see Lilly act before I cast final judgment.