The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit: The 'unofficial' NOT disappointed thread

The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The 'unofficial' NOT disappointed thread

architecthis
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 3:55pm

Views: 3610

The 'unofficial' NOT disappointed thread

I don't post very often here. I tend to just read through the posts to find out if I might have missed some interesting detail here or there, but I felt the need to comment on all the negativity I have picked up on over the past 24 hours.

First of all, the biggest issue before the release of this trailer (it seemed to me) was the worry that these films would be a repeat of the LOTR. That they would be too dark or humorous to match the character of the novel, and now that the trailer is here one big complaint I keep seeing is that these are not enough like the trilogy both aesthetically and with regards to the scale. If there is one complaint I will sympathize with it is the lack of miniatures being used but this is not LOTR and the technology has come a long way since 1999 so let's at least wait until we see the movie before we start making references to Star Wars and Narnia.

Secondly, the great goblin appears to me to be very interesting and IDK if I am the only one who sees it or what but if you look at Barry Humphries in the latest video log they seem to have exaggerated his features quite a bit but I totally see his face in the design. I also feel that we can't pass too much judgement on a corpse without seeing him bring the character to life.

As far as there not being enough hair on the wargs, really? I think there will be many wargs many of which look distinctly different. If the banner released by WB is any indication then at least several of them will be black with longer hair (much like Grom or whatever from Neverending story) and we also know from a video blog that we will have one who is larger and white.

Richard Armitage is perfect in his role his voice gives me the chills. In fact several of the dwarves have interesting irish and scottish accents which is also pretty cool and something we have not seen before in ME. I think all of these details will help to lend a sense of depth to the race. Additionally, Thorin is not referring to Goblin town when he mentions entering the mountain just because a scene in goblin town is cut in shortly after, we also have a scene with radagast cut in just after that....its just a trailer and it's edited to maximize interest.

Too much humor? Especially at the end with the great goblin scene? watch the alternate endings, thats what they are there for

I just dont know what people expect I guess. I am slightly concerned over the green screen but Weta is the best in the world at this so I guess I am not too concerned. I also feel the Hobbit should be a bit lighter in tone and gradually become more ominous as the party approaches the mountain - in which case the trailer is spot on if you ask me.

Finally, please remember this is not the shore soundtrack....the sound is going to add so much to the atmosphere of this movie, much like lighting can completely change the way one experiences a building or space. Try to keep an open mind and not jump to so many conclusions people.

This trailer is awesome!

(This post was edited by Altaira on Sep 20 2012, 4:27pm)

Escapist
Gondor

Sep 20 2012, 4:06pm

Views: 2151

Something does seem to be strange!

Now I saw a thread called "the officially disappointed thread" and I am new here and have never seen such a thread and didn't know how "official" a thread labelled official was ... so I posted in it even though I wasn't actually officially disappointed.

Mostly, I was replying to the fact that in fact, TH is different than LOTR and yes - it should be (and actually TH is my favorite over LOTR). I also remembered how much the song in the first trailer was awesome and hoped to hear more (although I wouldn't say I was disappointed).

So I guess that I thought that thread was open for back-and-forth discussion like any other thread but then the strangest thing happened! I got the impression that my positive comments and reasoning about points people brought up were not exactly welcome in that thread - which I found to be a surprising form of negativity that I had no intention of generating! It was strange to see that sentiment repeated in that thread so much ... it made me scratch my head wondering what kind of negativity this was ... clearly not the same kind of back-and-forth discussion I normally love to join in on TORn.

Officially not disappointed here ... in case there was some confusion ... sorry if there was
(and I think it would be kind of cool if some wargs took after El Chupacabra .... although quite scary as well! Maybe even too scary and "close" to modern legends - I don't know ... not to say that the short amount of time they appeared is enough to definitively make an El Chupacabra comparison - just an impression)

RosieLass
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 4:11pm

Views: 1957

I think the thing is...

...that those of us who don't love everything Peter Jackson does get tired sometimes of being jumped on whenever we talk about something that concerns us.

So, if there was a feeling of unwelcome for the positive posts, it might have been because they felt like criticism of the criticism, and not just people being positive.

This board welcomes all opinions, positive and negative, as long as people treat each other with respect, and part of that respect is letting people state their opinions, whether we agree with them or not.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)

architecthis
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 4:11pm

Views: 1855

All comments are welcome

And thank you for yours. Maybe this thread is unnecessary as we have many with regard to the trailer already but i felt like they were mostly initiated to be critical. I don't know if I've ever even started a thread before but again, I felt the need for a positive interpretation I guess.

JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Sep 20 2012, 4:13pm

Views: 1973

Displeasure

One might say you are displeased with the displeasure. I am wondering how that is different.

architecthis
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 4:18pm

Views: 1867

touche

Except it is different, because I am pleased with the trailer, which is what I was referring to.

(This post was edited by architecthis on Sep 20 2012, 4:19pm)

dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator

Sep 20 2012, 4:20pm

Views: 1846

Very good point

about the thread titled "Official Disappointed". I've changed that "Official" to "Imdb".

It looks like it's purpose was simply that: a place where people could express disappointment. And fortunately, it's just about off the main page of this Board now! Smile

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

WhiskFishercat
Bree

Sep 20 2012, 4:26pm

Views: 1872

Yeah no kidding

I dont post on here much either, but I've been watch these forums daily for over almost two years now. Thanks for speaking up Architectthis!

I loved the trailer. I think its going to be a great movie, people shouldnt let a trailer get them down too much. Wait until you see the final movie first! Do I have some concerns? yes, but I'm going to see the movie first to see how it all plays out.

The one that makes me laugh the most is people complaining about RA as Thorin, you only heard a couple of sentences in two and a half minutes from an entire trilogy. I think he going to be a badass. I like his reaction to Elrond about going into the mountain, I think he is going to be tough, and loyal, always how I imagined him. I cant wait to see him get pissed over the arkenstone.

The second thing that makes me laugh is the comparison to Narnia. I dont see Narnia in the Hobbit trailer. I dont see three kids walking into a closet! I dont see talking jesus lions! Have you forgotten there are talking eagles, and dragons, and ravens and thrushes in the Hobbit? Its definitely more fantasy than LOTR., What were you expecting, a darker version of LOTR? It's still dark, look at the Dol Goldur and the Goblin tunnels. The Hobbit takes place during a golden age of sorts, its going to be a bit more colorful.

I completely agree with your h. shore comment.

Anyways, I think we're gonna be in for a treat!

Altaira
Superuser

Sep 20 2012, 4:36pm

Views: 1767

And I changed

With architecthis' permission, I change the title of this thread to the 'unofficial' NOT disappointed thread, because I could tell that was his true intent. Smile

For the record, I'm a card-carrying NOT disappointed fan. As I said elsewhere, when both trailers are taken together, we've now seen some of the serious side and some of the not-so-serious side of what we can expect. I'm glad they showed some humor in this one because many people may not realize that the Hobbit, and especially the first 2/3 of the Hobbit, is both fun, and funny, in many places. It sets it apart from LOTR, and sets people's expectations up for the fact that it's a different story.

It also let us see even more of the dwarves - their camaradarie and the bond they have with each other - a smart set up for a movie with so many main characters. It was a good mix of showing characters people already love, and making them start liking the dwarves already, before they even see the movie. What better way to get people into the theaters - which is the whole reason studios make trailers after all!

Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.

"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase

(This post was edited by entmaiden on Sep 20 2012, 4:40pm)

SirDennisC
Half-elven

Sep 20 2012, 4:41pm

Views: 1860

You don't see talking jesus lions?

... they're sure to be in there -- you might have to read between the lines in order to see them. Angelic

The Hobbit trailer 2, and what can be extrapolated about the film from it, looks good to me.

I especially love the shot of the forest the way the trees sweep up towards the ruins as if drawn toward it. Some trees around here do that, grow in the direction of the prevailing winds... but the trees in that shot appear to be blown by a swirling wind or drawn by a vacuum.

Here's the image (thanks again Reera):

Larger image here.

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Thank you Magpie!

(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Sep 20 2012, 4:45pm)

imin
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 4:41pm

Views: 1749

This thread really needed?

There is a sizable minority who did not for whatever reason like the trailer, but the majority did and most threads talk about how they are looking forward to this and that and discussing it with excitement.

The other thread served a purpose of keeping negative comments from spilling over into other more positive threads.

This thread just seems like a reaction to the negative thread which is not needed, seems a little pointless with all the others?

architecthis
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 4:44pm

Views: 1722

maybe not

But I felt like, with the exception of the official trailer post, most threads were highlighting some form of negative criticism so I decided to post my own positive interpretation.

JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Sep 20 2012, 4:49pm

Views: 1740

Reference

No, your thread title points directly at those who are disappointed.

Only then do you list why you are pleased with the trailer, which is fine by the way. I'm not really displeased either, although I do understand the concern. I just find the displeased attitude at odds with those who both expect the film to follow more closely to the childhood spirit of The Hobbit and be more adult.

(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Sep 20 2012, 4:50pm)

imin
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 4:50pm

Views: 1676

Ah ok, fair enough

It was not a personal attack against you by the way, incase you felt it was, more just i feel there is a lot of positivity for the films in general on here.

You want more negative go to some other tolkien forums! lol.

For me there were some parts i liked, other parts i didnt. I think this trailer highlighted the humour in the film or the humourous parts from the book as the last one was more an introductory trailer to get people to know the dwarves and re-introduce them to Middle-Earth and because of that more serious. I think the films will become more serious as they go through the trilogy but also be a mixture of some very serious parts and some silly parts - something for everyone, of every age - after all it would be a shame to have a film made based on a book that was aimed at children but which children could either not understand or were too scared to watch!

Altaira
Superuser

Sep 20 2012, 4:51pm

Views: 1692

I don't think

it's really appropriate to question whether someone else's thread is needed. If anyone has any questions about it, please post on feedback or PM and Admin.

Looking down the board, all the threads that discuss the trailer in general terms are gone. Also, while the 'disappointed' thread gave people a place to concentrate their comments, it didn't stop them from posting the same comments in other threads, just like the people who weren't disappointed. There's no harm in allowing a place to concentrate non-disappointment too. Smile

Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.

"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase

adnan
Rivendell

Sep 20 2012, 4:52pm

Views: 1746

Thank you for this thread!!

As much as I respect differences of opinion, I can't believe the things people find to complain about, hair length of a fictional beast for crying out loud!

In any case, with the movies so close now, I would love to be surrounded by positive folk in these parts, and that is why I am grateful for this thread in particular :)

I loved the trailer, it captures The Hobbit look and feel beautifully, while still teasing the fact that there is a darker subplot, the additional material (which I cant wait to see). To sum up, after seeing the trailer I realized that this is the movie-magic missing from cinemas for the past decade!

Rivendell

WhiskFishercat
Bree

Sep 20 2012, 4:52pm

Views: 1667

I love that shot too

feels creepy and evil. I hope we get to see a bunch of vista shots like that.

imin
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 4:54pm

Views: 1667

Love that shot

One of my favourite parts from the trailer :P

looks like tough terrain to get through.

Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 20 2012, 4:57pm

Views: 1724

Love what we've seen of the trolls!

Would have liked to hear them speak though, and as of now we only know Peter Hambleton is possibly voicing one of them.

(This post was edited by Carne on Sep 20 2012, 4:58pm)

sador
Half-elven

Sep 20 2012, 5:01pm

Views: 1686

Ah...

Having only read the new title, I was not sure why some people felt offended by this thread.

Do you think an "unofficial have not seen the trailer yet" thread would be a good idea?

"Throughout The Hobbit our accomplished author often ignores the basic convention of writing to "show, not tell." Is the age of his audience the reason? The age of his sources?"
- ElanorTX

The weekly discussion of The Hobbit is back. Join us in the Reading Room for On the Doorstep!

Ardam�r�
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 5:02pm

Views: 1652

That image is gorgeous

One of the best in the trailer.

I'm not surprised, though. All the landscape, especially the wide shots like this, in LOTR were stunning. I'm pleased to see that hasn't changed. Smile

dormouse
Half-elven

Sep 20 2012, 5:02pm

Views: 1682

Count me positive too...

There is so much in the trailer that came to me as a sheer delight - all the Bag End scenes - Bilbo setting off on his adventure - Rivendell - Bilbo dangling upside-down from the hand of a troll - all straight out of the book. Combine that with the dwarf singing from the first trailer and I think the film looks magical. Roll on December!

Macfeast
Rohan

Sep 20 2012, 5:21pm

Views: 1674

A positive outlook is great.

And that should be all the motivation you need to create a positive thread, really. I do think this thread would have been better off, had you not worded it as a response to the negativity you describe; A thread created and worded as a direct response to what other people are feeling, be it disappointment, happiness, or anything else in between, can easily come across as dismissive and confrontative. "Some people feel disappointed? Well, I'm going to start a thread about it, and address their disappointment" just doesn't seem right to me; Leave it at "I want a positive thread", I say.

On-topic, this trailer has increased my already high level of excitement. Only three months to go! Gonna go work on my costume now, so that I might finish it in time Sly

totoro
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 5:21pm

Views: 1541

I loved it, too

For the first half or so of the trailer, you are in the shire, with its trimmed hedges. The dwarves come along with a completely-different-from-hobbit rambunctiousness that really catches the mood of both the book and what I would like to see. The head-butt is a wonderful addition. Not mentioned in the book, but just the kind of thing that would make Bilbo wonder, "why would anyone headbutt another person?" and stand there in stunned silence at the subjective stupidity of the act. Because the hobbit has plenty of little touches like that where a sensible hobbit just would not condone certain activities, I think it is spot-on.

The dwarves are in a way more varied than humanity because they have the added benefit of inhuman, but still dwarvish (in my mind), characteristics. One is hard of hearing, one is hard of, well, thinking. You have the old fatherly sort, the young idealistic, ... I really like how the dwarves are not cookie cutter images. This is actually also a welcome deviation from the book. Using just the book, tell me the difference between Ori and Nori. Now I see it. I don't know if they will make Dori the strongest (he doesn't look strongest to me), but there are now so many visual cues, as well as manners of speaking, that distinguish these dwarves from one another. I would have liked some longer beards (at least I think I would have), but over all, I am quite pleased. I particularly like Balin. We also get nothing like the tone of his in the book (though he is from the narrator's perspective, which is Bilbo many years later I think, one of those who looks most kindly on hobbit).

I liked Rivendell just fine. The harps in the back give the feel of a tra-la-lilly without actually having to listen to it. The narrator mentioned that the elves actually seem foolish to some. I don't want to see the elves act in a manner that would seem foolish to some. I don't think it will translate well to the screen. I believe the tone of Elrond is such that there is no great concern for this. The way Elrond and Thorin speak to one another is spot-on what I pictured, with a bit of impatience and lack of trust throughout.

Then we get to goblin town, with the wonderful touches placing bones here and there and making it look like a cave, but as dirty a cave as you might expect. Having done a little spelunking in my day, I really liked the way they made the cave feels like it is underground, but had more character than the usual cavern. Not to say I don't think plain old caves are anything other than awe-inspiring, but it will not translate to the screen. You need to bones laying around and the old-looking platforms to really get it right.

The landscapes, well, we all know about those. Stunning.

The trolls are a little meh, but they had to look like the Cave Trolls of LOTR trilogy. I pictured them as more human-looking when reading the book; so I think it is just a matter of taste. They move quite well. The camp, the little I could see by still-framing the HD version of the trailer, looks nice and littered, like I would expect. On the plus side, the dwarves charging out to rescue Bilbo (together) feels more satisfying than them stumbling into the troll camp two at a time to be conveniently stuffed into sacks. There was a hint in the book about a couple of dwarves making an "impression" on the trolls in the form of painful, but not life-threatening wounds. However, over-all the dwarves seemed to act kind of stupid. I am glad to see hints of them going down with more purpose and a bit more of a fight.

The animals are amazing. On still-frame, I defy anyone to point out how the hedgehog or hare looks any different than a real hedgehog or hare. The only way to tell that there is CGI there is to realize that hedgehogs cannot be trained to do what that hedgehog does (and hares don't pull sleds). If that kind of CGI doesn't impress, you probably don't like things in real life that are unbelievable, like moon walks (hoax!) and such. Flawlessly rendered.

I adore the elves, Galadriel and Elrond. It is amazing to me the power they exude without any special effects. I think Sir Ian is showing his age a bit because he had the same power in the first film, but is somewhat diminished in this one. He is still awesome, though.

Nice touch having Bifur awake and playing with a toy when the goblins ambush the party. I thought it was kind of cute.

Were those stone giants a GDT design?

WhiskFishercat
Bree

Sep 20 2012, 5:31pm

Views: 1462

your costume

is it a Balin costume? Wink

SirDennisC
Half-elven

Sep 20 2012, 5:37pm

Views: 1216

Someone raised the issue of "friendly Gollum."

(sorry I can't remember who, or in what thread)

We have to consider that Gollum/Smeagol of LOTR is the base character here. If he doesn't line-up with the saucer-eyed, hissing, paddle-handed creature from the pages of Riddles in the Dark for some, that is an expectation and argument whose time has long since passed.

Given what we know of PJ's Gollum from LOTR, I think they went the right way with him here. For instance, he hasn't lost the Ring yet, he's not very hungry at the moment (according to Tolkien), and he has Bilbo at his mercy in the dark as it were. All these factors would account for his comparatively friendlier countenance in TH. That is to say, he should seem friendlier than the strung out, starving, escapee of Sauron's dungeon we encounter in TTT.

imho Evil

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Thank you Magpie!

(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Sep 20 2012, 5:41pm)

totoro
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 5:38pm

Views: 1194

my costume

is a viking. I really need a new one. I go as a viking every other year. Last year my whole family was pirates, but my daughter hasn't gotten over the fact that she was not allowed to go as a pretty princess (even though we said she was a pirate princess).

Sorry off topic. Um. Next year I will go as Balin. (Sort of on topic.)

Macfeast
Rohan

Sep 20 2012, 5:43pm

Views: 1222

Thorin, actually!

I haven't exactly been subtle about my disappointment in his short beard (which, to be fair, is my only objection at this point, the costume is great, and Armitage seems set to give an excellent performance), but I guess the fact that I choose to dress up as him regardless, is a good indicator of just how excited I am for these movies Sly

Balin was very close to winning me over, though. Perhaps I will go as him next time, and a third dwarf (Gl�in, maybe) for the finale? Sly

Sunflower
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 5:43pm

Views: 1273

Richness and depth

LOL, I guess we now need this thread....:) Why are people even debating that we need it? If Mr. Shelob can successfully hold forth, than we who are pleased can here!

I may be willing to endure a little extra CGI and "santization" in certain scenes if they are balanced by the same evidence of craftsmanship and attention to detail in the scripts that we had in LOTR, the same evocations of the richness and density, that "overdesign" of M-e that Kristin Thompson so wonderfully discussed in her book (Hey Kristen! Wonder what YOU think? I hope we get to hear from you soon!)

One example of this is, as I discussed in my music thread below, the musicians in Elrond's banqueting hall. That threw me--didn't expect that at all. I don't think this is a case of, "Oh, someone was watching The Tudors." Smile

It's more an example of that extra little bit of atmosphere and mood, that sense of packing as much as possible into every frame. Other films this might be a nuisance, but IMO too much can never be enough when we are in Middle-earth! Whether it's packing it in live or CG, sometimes the diff shouldn't count! We are meant to get lost and wallow in M-e. Not just b/c Peter wants to take the time to delve into Elven culture that he perhaps wished to and couldn't in LOTR. (or he wanted to save it for TH haivng faith it would be made one day....it's eerie how many TH refs in LOTR there are..which now sema naturally in with TH as if the one was made before the other! Uncanny huh?) It' b/c he wants to explore an element that always fascinated me in "Many Meetings"--Bilbo's fascination with the Elves as a people and how that rubbed off on Frodo and esp Sam.

Second--Rhosgobel and Beorn's house. These sets are obviosuly not CG and are every bit as fascinating as the Golden Hall. And of course Dale blows me away...

Ardam�r�
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 5:45pm

Views: 1250

The Elves

Quote

I adore the elves, Galadriel and Elrond. It is amazing to me the power they exude without any special effects.

This! They are amazing. And it has everything to do with Cate Blanchett and Hugo Weaving. Cate especially is the perfect Elf, and perfect Galadriel. The best thing about Cate is that she genuinely loves playing Galadriel. Heart

I can't say enough good about her!

totoro
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 5:47pm

Views: 1269

polite gollum

I think it would be a mistake to try to argue PJ sticks to the book religiously because the trailer has some deviation. Bilbo did not suggest the riddle competition, Gollum did.

Be that as it may, to quote Gollum half a page after startling Bilbo: "'Sssss' said Gollum, and became quite polite." He remains polite as he explains Bilbo gets eaten if he loses, and Bilbo said "all right." I prefer the movie version "fair enough."

All in all, I don't see how one could complain about the treatment of Gollum. If you liked the book, it seems like the worst you could say is you had a preference for something-something. Taking the bits we've seen and turning it into a huge negative just strikes me as an earnest attempt at negativity.

In Reply To

Ardam�r�
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 5:48pm

Views: 1161

He should still be creepy though, no?

I mean, he lives alone, underground, in the dark, by a lake. That's like the epitome of creepy. Bilbo should be more freaked out, but he seemed too comfortable.

Trailer 1 and the vlogs show more caution and scaredness, though, so I guess this isn't the whole picture.

Ardam�r�
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 5:52pm

Views: 1130

Right on!

Dale is fabulous. And what we've seen of Laketown is equally amazing. I mean, it's perfect! Shocked

But...I don't think anything can ever compare to the pure beauty of the outdoor set of Edoras. Heart

SirDennisC
Half-elven

Sep 20 2012, 5:56pm

Views: 1213

Refuse to comment further

(after this) but I see a lot of what I perceive to be GDT touches, such as the "Bifur awake and playing with a toy" you mention, and a lot of set and situational elements. However, in light of PJ's comments (which I suspect is the official, agreed upon by all parties, word on the matter) I've decided to be satisfied that it might just be my imagination...

(You've won this round Ministry of Truth Laugh

)

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Thank you Magpie!

Faenoriel
Tol Eressea

Sep 20 2012, 5:59pm

Views: 1173

All is Hobbit and nothing hurts!

Positive things:

Bilbo-centrisim

The sense an adventure is calling

The cameraderie and the great spirit amongst the Dwarves - I want to join them and have fun!

The brotherhood between Kili & Fili and Dwalin & Balin

Everything about Balin Heart

Everything about Bilbo aswell Heart

Really, everyone: Elrond, Gandalf, Galadriel, Bofur, Thorin, Ori... Heart

Radagast and his hedgehogs of adorableness

Richard Armitage's voice deserves a special mention

Dol Guldur looks wowity wow wow. It's straight out of Alan's and Howe's paintings.

The fun, the colours, the joy of adventure, the sense of wonder, the unknown.... yes!

I think I'm falling in love with Fili. No regrets

But he has to share me with Bofur

Sm�agol and Gollum, I missed you two loonies

Galadriel and Gandalf together in Rivendell. It's some special kind of awesome

Elrond and Thorin being cats and dogs in their barely self-restrained way

New Zealand

They way Thorin slams the contract into poor Bilbo's chest, and when Bilbo faints, he turns around annoyed. Also watch wath Bofur does when Bilbo hits the floor. Generally, the Dwarves have zero respect for Bilbo and he's pretty much treated like some very amusing joke, expect by Thorin who's just irked by him.

Balin calling Bilbo "laddie"

And much more.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied

SirDennisC
Half-elven

Sep 20 2012, 6:05pm

Views: 1209

Not the whole picture (spoiler)

good point... and maybe Martin isn't in his groove here? This was one of the earliest scenes they shot.

As for creepy, I suppose with all the zombie films of late, someone saying they want to eat you has lost a lot of its bite, or appeal, depending. Wink

Of course we know that Bilbo doesn't get eaten. For that matter, our familiarity with Gollum might have a lot to do with it as well.

Either way, I like him here.

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(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Sep 20 2012, 6:05pm)

SirDennisC
Half-elven

Sep 20 2012, 6:10pm

Views: 1140

Ha! Sador...

I wonder what the post count would be in such a thread.

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Thank you Magpie!

droidsocket
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 6:27pm

Views: 1092

Yes thank you!!

The negativity of some have become so vile of late that I cannot come to read some peoples posts. If I could I would honestly block some people so that I did not have to subject myself to their wretched words. And there are times that I feel the movie boards should have a sub category for people that like and people who don't like these movies. I myself enjoy intelligent discussion.. but when some are so steadfast in there disappointment and use these boards to replete over and over how much they dislike PJ and his work it stops being lighthearted debate and just seems like one pushing there own agenda.

I am not saying this to come across as harsh but I feel as tho the amount of negativity and the sharp words used against these movies and the directory are being pushed far past "just my opinion" into the world of just plain nasty. And to be honest I don't know why some people even have any interest coming on these boards. if you hate the direction the first trilogy had and the trailer makes you so disappointing because it seems to follow the same film making....chances are you are going to hate the movie too. Save yourself some money and don't go to it.. And save the rest of us from the immense amount of negativity that we are bound to get on these boards if you do.

I do not come here to have my love for these movies nor my excitement lowered because some find so much wrong with a simple trailer used for marketing. Rant over.

By the way. I loved this trailer. I loved how it was so different from the first trailer and that is showed that the film will be both somber and heartfelt yet funny and action filled. I always loved The Hobbit book more then LOTR. But fell in love with PJ's trilogy. And this just looks so amazing! I will not be surprised if this trilogy replaces the last trilogy as my all time favorite.

Martin is so perfect. I had only ever seen him act in Hitchhikers and Sherlock. I really did not enjoy hitchhikers and when Martin was announced as Bilbo I was like "who is this guy" his performance in that movie was so forgettable....but then I started to watch Sherlock and that brought me hope. After seeing the first and now second trailer I believe this man was born to play Bilbo. He has such an endearing awkwardness to him that just screams Bilbo.

Richard was another that i was very unsure about. I had seen a few episodes of Robin Hood but other then that he was unknown to me. I also was not a fan of his makeup and short beard from the first photo released. But this trailer again sold me on his ability. Not only do I know feel like his design fits with in the context of the film but his performance is stellar. The one second clip of him on top of the pine tree was all i needed. He is emoting an intensity that is just awesome. Ready to pounce!

Middle Earth looks amazing as always. Its so exciting that we get to see new and old places. The dwarfs look awesome prosthetic and all. The slightly more fairytale feel/colors are a welcome change for me... will help give ME a lighter feel from the first trilogy.

All this talk of 4 or 5 k resolution being a bad thing is just nuts to me. I want my movies to be crystal clear. I actually find it very annoying that many new digital movies that come out in the cinema have had a grain added to look more like film. It just looks messy. If you want your image to be, well frankly blurry, then drink a couple beers before you watch it. lol

I am so excited for Dec 14th. I am making my wife nuts at how crazy obsessed I am about these movies. lol

DanielLB
Immortal

Sep 20 2012, 6:28pm

Views: 1119

Yay for being positive!

I've not read the entire thread yet, but if I see any negativity, you shall feel my wrath.

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Ardam�r�
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 6:34pm

Views: 1115

Familiarity with Gollum

probably is the main reason. It's disappointing though, at least to me.

We'll have to see the whole scene, of course, to make an informed decision. But right now, like with everything else in this film, I'm just in a wait and watch mode. I won't be let down or overjoyed until December 14 Smile

Ardam�r�
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 6:35pm

Views: 1114

Not the wrath of Daniel!

What if it's negativity toward the dwarf-crushing Goblin fall? Wink

SirDennisC
Half-elven

Sep 20 2012, 6:36pm

Views: 1066

But isn't nerd rage over nerd rage still nerd rage?

Trying to inject a little levity into these discussions is like pulling teeth... both ends of the geek spectrum are a tough crowd and the mushy middle ain't willing to play just now.

To quote Tim: "Why so serious?"

Laugh

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(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Sep 20 2012, 6:36pm)

DanielLB
Immortal

Sep 20 2012, 6:40pm

Views: 1105

There are exceptions Ardam�r�!

We can have negativity over the lack of Mr.Purse and Gandriel in the trailer, plus the silly Goblin fall.

Everything else must be positive. I insist.

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acheron
Gondor

Sep 20 2012, 6:49pm

Views: 1100

Hey, I liked it too

I'm still wary about the movies, and especially about turning the story into three films, but everything in the trailer looked pretty good to me.

For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much -- the wheel, New York, wars, and so on -- while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man, for precisely the same reasons. -- Douglas Adams

Ardam�r�
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 6:50pm

Views: 1014

You really ought to tell everyone

what is acceptable to be negative about. Make a thread about it (be a troll. be a troll!) Tongue

Tim
Tol Eressea

Sep 20 2012, 6:57pm

Views: 1042

I appreciate the quote, Sir D, but we must give that one to DK's scriptwriter...

And to answer your question yes, nerd rage over nerd rage is still nerd rage. And if one type's "nerd rage" over and over enough it starts to lose it's meaning.. ahhhh!

*post edited and cut to go into forum feedback*

Anyway, I enjoyed the trailer.

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.

easterlingchief1
Rivendell

Sep 20 2012, 6:59pm

Views: 1139

I can't speak for everyone...

But I've never felt like critics of the Jackson films have been dog piling on us fans. Frankly, while I've not seen eye-to-eye with you and other posters, I always appreciate your input.

What I personally (and I think lot of other posters, Jackson film fans or not) don't like is when some Ringers uses these forums as their personal blog to rant about what they don't like about the Trilogy or the upcoming films.

* Just do we're clear, Cotton, you're not included in this group, at least to my knowledge.

But please, don't hold back on any criticisms you have about the Trilogy (existing or upcoming). Like I said, rational input is appreciated, and even us die-hard Jackson fans have to remember that the movies aren't perfect.

totoro
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 7:00pm

Views: 1060

I think it is OK to be negative about the hedgehog

OK, granted it was identical to a hedgehog in still frames, but we know that hedgehogs don't do this-or-that (the thing that makes me so angry). They should have done it the old fashioned way and taken a scalpel to the beast to insert mechanical gears and whatnot to force the damn thing to move like it would normally move, but in a way that it would not normally because hedgehogs wouldn't move that way unless they were forced to. While we are on this topic, they should have gotten a real Balrog. I mean, what the hell? It was so obvious that thing was fake, too. Balrogs just don't move like that. It totally ruined my suspension of disbelief.

DanielLB
Immortal

Sep 20 2012, 7:01pm

Views: 1087

They're Middle-earth hedgehogs!

They don't move like the critters today. Tongue

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hamlet
Rivendell

Sep 20 2012, 7:05pm

Views: 1045

Also -

If you notice the quick shot of Gollum at the end of the trailer, he looks a lot more sinister. It's very brief, but I think this might be after he realizes the ring is gone. There's nothing "cute" about his visage here.

Ardam�r�
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 7:13pm

Views: 1200

Oh yes indeed

And I'm hoping there's much more of that sinister Gollum in the movie.

mefansmum
Rivendell

Sep 20 2012, 7:13pm

Views: 1130

But can we be surprised?

I am only a Tolkien amateur but I don't see how we can expect anything else but some polar extreme views, along with everything in between, given that people are coming from so many variations of Middle Earth knowledge and interpretations of the knowledge they do have, as well as personal taste, imagination and probably lots of other factors that affect how they receive what is presented.

People feel how they feel and no matter what that is we are all allowed to comment on the topic and other people's comments. Whenever I feel a bit overwhelmed by negative reactions on anything, I tend to be happy I am not feeling the same way, it is more fun enjoying something. IN the case of The Hobbit my expectations are looking on track, possibly an advantage of being at a lower level of expertise. Laugh

Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 20 2012, 7:20pm

Views: 1183

Not at all disappointed.

Seemed to me to be a trailer with a strong focus on Bilbo and the enormity of the world beyond his Shire.

My own view, and this seems to be supported by the conflicting views on the "disappointed thread", is that the trailer strikes a positive balance between the lighter Hobbit and an ME established by LOTR. The idea that some are unhappy that it is far too close in tone to LOTR and some are unhappy that it is far too distant in tone from LOTR speaks to me of a happy balance.

I am surprised to see grumbles about the humour. Whilst not all is aimed at grumpy, dry as the dust disturbed by Tolkien spinning in his grave at beards of incorrect lengths and the absence of tassels, English folks like me, Freeman does a very good line in just the right sort of stuff (ably assisted by Mckellen and Stott). Tonally spot on from what small glimpses here. I do hope it isn't in fact too English for a global palate.

All in all I suspect, having seen the trailer, will go and see the film.

LR

Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 20 2012, 7:30pm

Views: 1095

Never mind about that I want to know why

The dwarves have been completely cut from the Trolls scene? And why do only Bilbo, Thorin and Balin go to Rivendell? And they have cut the bit where Bilbo finds the ring!

Im starting to think a two and a half minute film is just too short, if they have to cut all this stuff out.

LR

Tim
Tol Eressea

Sep 20 2012, 7:34pm

Views: 1114

Stop it with the being funny.

I spilled my beverage.

Laugh

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.

elanesse
Rivendell

Sep 20 2012, 7:34pm

Views: 1097

anyone else thinks that galadriel sounds like the borg-queen?

i wonder why they put that robotic-metallic soundeffect on her...

DanielLB
Immortal

Sep 20 2012, 7:37pm

Views: 1098

I don't hear it? /

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Ardam�r�
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 7:39pm

Views: 1066

I'm not sure if you're being sarcastic toward me

or just in general, or if I'm just reading you wrong.

I've already stated I'll wait to see the film before making a decision on whether or not I like it.

elanesse
Rivendell

Sep 20 2012, 7:39pm

Views: 1082

when/before she says "Mithrandir"

Ardam�r�
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 7:42pm

Views: 1060

I think that's just Cate

making her voice really deep.

I don't like the weird sound effect we hear right before we see her, though. It seems like a weird teleporting metallic sound. Too sci-fi for me.

Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 20 2012, 7:42pm

Views: 1107

Just a general chuckle, I assure you.

droidsocket
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 7:44pm

Views: 1075

while I understand..

that people have there own feelings. It is not acceptable to always express those feeling. As a Canadian it is not acceptable to express your feeling if they are racist, prejudice, or some form of slander against another person. I know that this example is not the same as expressing ones feeling about something as irrelevant as a movie. But I am just trying to display that there are lines that should not be crossed.

Online forums are easy to express our deepest feeling without a concern on how the words we use can affect other people.

And it is of my opinion that the lengths to which some people feel they need to express there feeling are pushing the line on what is acceptable in an open forum that is meant for fans.

There is a difference in expressing that you are not happy with what you see and "beating a dead horse" over and over again. I feel the same way about people that choose to over express their love for and devotion on how PJ can do no wrong. Tho I find positivity or too much positivity seldom affects people in a negative way, where as too much negativity does affect those around it.

As my Pappy all ways said; One spoiled apple ruins the bunch!

SirDennisC
Half-elven

Sep 20 2012, 7:44pm

Views: 1063

Just imagine the mood swings in store

during the riddle game.

ps LR don't do emoticons, but I'm willing to bet the joking is not at your expense. Smile

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Thank you Magpie!

Ardam�r�
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 8:09pm

Views: 1079

I'm not looking forward to the mood swings

I just wanted creepy, "I'm gonna eat you" Gollum from the book. But the trailer showed that's obviously not happening.

And I think that's a legit reason to be concerned.

elanesse
Rivendell

Sep 20 2012, 8:10pm

Views: 1210

like darth-vader-galadriel

easterlingchief1
Rivendell

Sep 20 2012, 8:27pm

Views: 1052

Middle Earth hedgehogs, you say?

If they're anything like Middle Earth's version of pachyderms, then they ought to be the size of a golden retriever.

Rats. Now I want to see a hedgehog the size of a golden retriever Frown

Snaga
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 8:33pm

Views: 1128

Has me scratching my head too...

In Reply To

The one that makes me laugh the most is people complaining about RA as Thorin, you only heard a couple of sentences in two and a half minutes from an entire trilogy. I think he going to be a badass. I like his reaction to Elrond about going into the mountain, I think he is going to be tough, and loyal, always how I imagined him. I cant wait to see him get pissed over the arkenstone.

If anything about the various reactions on these boards sends home the idea that it's all a matter of taste, it would have to be Armitage as Thorin. I was in the camp that was originally concerned about how they cast Thorin, but after seeing what they've done with the part and getting a glimpse of Armitage in action I am completely stoked!! Sure he doesn't resemble the Thorin I had pictured in my head while reading the book, but I can just tell that his on-screen ability and vocal authority it going to define Thorin as far as these movies are concerned.

"Alas for Boromir! It was too sore a trial!"

-Faramir

Lissuin
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 8:38pm

Views: 1055

Loved the 5 alternate endings.

It was so PJ and crew and their delight in surprises. "How can we make this more fun for ourselves and everybody? How about an alternate ending? No, wait! How about FIVE alternate endings?!"

I'm nestling into Middle-earth again - corny phrase, I know, but that's how it feels. Bag End is home, and Rivendell is just over the hills and is just as beautiful and wondrous as before. Bilbo's reaction to all that happens to him is exactly how I think the Professor wanted him to react - with wonder, puzzlement and awe and fear with courage. And the Landscapes are there! Yep, I'm back.

Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 20 2012, 8:39pm

Views: 1002

Well just as in the text

I would be very surprised if the scene were one-note.

I can't quite work out if some of the darkly humorous elements Tolkien employs in the scene are now too anachronistic to be recognised or if there is a prefence for less nuanced interpretations but it often seems to be overlooked.

Similarly Gollum's disingenuous presentation seems to be forgotten, the ebb and flow of tensions within the scene smoothed out and evocation of Gollum as both a child-like and a threatening figure amputated.

But I might be reading it wrong!

LR

Snaga
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 8:47pm

Views: 1047

Yes, we're dealing with a different Gollum here

In Reply To

(We have to consider that Gollum/Smeagol of LOTR is the base character here. If he doesn't line-up with the saucer-eyed, hissing, paddle-handed creature from the pages of Riddles in the Dark for some, that is an expectation and argument whose time has long since passed.

Given what we know of PJ's Gollum from LOTR, I think they went the right way with him here. For instance, he hasn't lost the Ring yet, he's not very hungry at the moment (according to Tolkien), and he has Bilbo at his mercy in the dark as it were. All these factors would account for his comparatively friendlier countenance in TH. That is to say, he should seem friendlier than the strung out, starving, escapee of Sauron's dungeon we encounter in TTT.

imho Evil

Think of him in LOTR as a heroin addict who is going through withdrawal. He has been 60 years without the ring, forced into the world, taken and tortured in Mordor. Far, far more wretched than he would have been when Bilbo first dealt with him.

In Riddles in the Dark Gollum was more or less content and in his own element (a place he had lived for centuries), had just eaten a 'squeaker', and was probably feeling pretty confident of himself in his dealings with Bilbo. Of course he was wretched none the less, and Bilbo got a glimpse of that before his escape, but definitely a different Gollum here than in the trilogy.

"Alas for Boromir! It was too sore a trial!"

-Faramir

DanielLB
Immortal

Sep 20 2012, 9:40pm

Views: 955

Before she says Mithrandir?

Is that possible? In any case, I still don't hear it. It's just Cate's (lovely) voice. Smile

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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 9:58pm

Views: 1065

I think a lot of it has to do with the hyper-smooth, silky look

And not necessarily the CGI.

It may be the case that digital film, at 5K resolution, almost destroys shadows, and renders much else over-bright. For me, that is the main reason this looks Narnia-esque. There are virtually no shadows (in Goblin Town, for example, you can see everything with a great amount of detail, even in the deep, deep distance), and everything is quite bright and glossy.

Too much detail all over the composition can both kill composition, and act as sensory overload. To me, I got a very similar feeling to playing a video game. It just doesn't see authentic, or cinematic.

We'll see. Perhaps PJ will tone down the brightness, and deepen the shadows?

DanielLB
Immortal

Sep 20 2012, 10:52pm

Views: 925

Do you mean the sound of stone grinding on stone?

In any case, that's not Cate either.

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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 11:03pm

Views: 1041

My favorite shots

Are the two in the fir trees in the moonlight - the first with Thorin and the second with Gandalf. The colors, the lighting (a glorious moonlit night, marred by fire), and everything about it, exceeded my own imagination.

If a large percentage of the films are of that quality, I will not be disappointed.

tolkiennerd
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 1:54am

Views: 961

I really liked the trailer

Looks like the film is not going to be a word for word adaptation but still stick to the plot of the book. As for humor well humor was the reason I love the book.

Elessar
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 2:17am

Views: 1033

I'm with ya

I felt the heart of lotr was captured in those films as where the essence of the characters. After seeing two trailers and what I saw at comic-con I feel the same is happening here. It makes me beyond happy.

Sinister71
Tol Eressea

Sep 21 2012, 3:07am

Views: 1132

disagreehttp://newboards.theonering.net/

Gollum was a murderer, and killed many orcs and whatever he could get his hands on to eat. I can see him as maybe borderline depressed, skulking, keeping to the shadows looking for his next victim, Not some peppy upbeat happy creature like he was in TTT. They should have taken Gollum backwards not keeping him unseen, but keeping him in the shadows at least..It was only after being around Frodo and Sam for a while, feeling the sunlight on his face that the Smeagol personality came out more. Also Bilbo doesn't really seem afraid in the new trailer he actually seems bored IMO. they should have down played Gollum a bit maybe with some of the more mellow Smeagol emotions but not the peppy upbeat ones... and the dialogue is horrible so far and some basically ripping off LOTR about showing "Hobbitsses safe way out" too reminiscent of him telling almost the same thing to Sam and Frodo. The Gollum climbing over the rocks was far better and more in line with what he should be than this new upbeat one... So far I think the peppy Gollum is a complete failure Evil

But just my opinion, not that it matters Wink

Sinister71
Tol Eressea

Sep 21 2012, 3:16am

Views: 981

Polite and Happy are 2 different things

Gollum just seems happy, a person can be polite without seeming happy. there is a big difference. I think he should be polite, but still have that element of anger and danger to him that he is missing from the Gollum in the trailer. Bilbo almost seems bored in the new trailer. Angelic

as far as the trailer goes there really is NOTHING in it from the book, Sure some deviations based on stuff from the book but I heard not one line of dialogue from the book at all or no one specific scene that I can say "yeah that was right from the book" based on stuff from the book but nothing that said Tolkien to me Unsure

Altaira
Superuser

Sep 21 2012, 3:18am

Views: 1046

*snicker*

The way I see it, Gollum is elated because a free meal has stumbled into his life. Smeagol is happy for the company, if still hungry, and 'Stinker' just wants to kill Bilbo and be done with it. Either way, Gollum still thinks he has the Ring and is, therefore, invincible.

Did Slinker/Stinker come into The Hobbit - no. But, Gollum isn't going to get much screen time in this trilogy, so it's all the more important to use what little screen time he has to do a little tie-in action. It makes sense to me on all those levels and works very well for me.

Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.

"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase

JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Sep 21 2012, 3:22am

Views: 1089

Takes

Is it Possible Jackson will pull a fast one and use a different take? This one could have been played differently than the others. Trailer takes don't always end up the same in the finished film. Sometimes it's even disappointing when it happens. In this case, those who don't like it might be happier.

Sinister71
Tol Eressea

Sep 21 2012, 3:25am

Views: 989

Just his presence is a tie in

So IMO they should have reverted him back to keeping to the shadows a bit more like FOTR. Not remaining unseen because we have after all already seen him. But staying more to the shadows. It feels like they are more concerned with showing off the character than using the character to tell the story. They should at least let the films flow in chronological order like PJ has stated a few times if I remember correctly and keep Gollum more sinister to allow him to become more of the Smeagol character in the later (or earlier) films which take place in a later time than the Hobbit. Wink

Ardam�r�
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 3:30am

Views: 1040

This is kind of how I feel

Quote

I think there was quite a bit of good stuff in it, but nothing that really felt like The Hobbit, to me anyway.

On the other hand, I felt like the initial trailer did feel like The Hobbit. Sure, it had a LOTR-flare with the Gandalf bits & Galadriel. But even those felt like extensions of the story to me.

This trailer, though, felt so strange. However, since both trailers show footage from the same film, just differently, I'm not going to make an opinion of the film. I'm waiting until December 14 until I rejoice or freak out Crazy

Altaira
Superuser

Sep 21 2012, 4:44am

Views: 955

True

But, Gollum wasn't a shadowy figure in The Hobbit; he's described in detail physically, we get an abundance of his mannerisms and there's almost an entire chapter dedicated to his one-on-one interactions with Bilbo. It would be really difficult to pull off the whole Riddles in the Dark sequence in The Hobbit with Gollum being a partially seen, shadowy figure. Besides, that 'lack of continuity' is how Tolkien wrote it: he described Gollum in detail in The Hobbit and had some very lively interactions between himself and Bilbo. Then, in FOTR, Tolkien ramped up the suspense by making Gollum shadowy and mysterious, even though we already knew, from The Hobbit, who he was. It follows the whole story arc of the books pretty closely when you think about it.

Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.

"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 4:56am

Views: 972

It can be done in the dark

Would have been thrilling, and very evocative, to have it done in the style of Brando and Sheen's conversation in Apocalypse Now...

Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan

Sep 21 2012, 5:06am

Views: 942

Okay...

Things I'm NOT disappointed in?

The stone giants! I was hoping they would be included...
Thorin. Looks great and RA should nail the part... (A longer beard would have been nice) Tongue

Dwalin looks BETTER than any dwarf I imagined.
Radagast... Looks better than the way people were describing him. I don't even mind the bunny contraption (It sounded awful when explained)
Bilbo. Perfect -exactly the way I thought he would act.
The fact we will see Saruman!
New Zealand scenery!! Give me real locations over cgi any day of the week...
Mirkwood. Perfect!
Some of the humor was really good. Subtle is the key!
Gandalf. Although his voice sounded slightly off...??

JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Sep 21 2012, 5:07am

Views: 987

Darkness

It was dark in the book, but you need light to read it. If there is fearsome and fear in that cave at all, you'll need to see the characters to read their expressions. I'd rather be able to see them on the screen and assume it actually is dark as an abstraction. Silence of the Lambs actually approached this to great effect, but used night vision goggles as a first person POV device.

Wear your 3D glasses in a 2D showing. It'll be dark. Wink

(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Sep 21 2012, 5:10am)

duats
Grey Havens

Sep 21 2012, 5:44am

Views: 942

To my knowledge

This is the only physical description we get of Gollum in The Hobbit:

"As dark as darkness, except for two big round pale eyes in his thin face."

Other minor details can be inferred through dialogue, such as Gollum only having six teeth, and him having pockets (suggesting that he is wearing some sort of garment). Correct me if I'm wrong, but that's pretty much it.

Having just read the chapter fifteen minutes ago, I'll have to disagree. Of course he is a shadowy figure in The Hobbit. Bilbo never gets a very good look at him. It's almost always a silhouette, coupled with those pale glowing eyes. The pale glowing eyes are the focus. Tolkien keeps coming back to them.

As for the difficulties of pulling off the scene with Gollum as nothing more than a shadowy figure, it would undoubtedly be difficult (as shooting any scene with minimal lighting usually is). Still, I'd wager that, in the hands of a competent filmmaker/cinematographer, the end result would be well worth the hassle. This is a scene that should be drenched in horror and an overbearing sense of claustrophobia (thus created a more intimate scene). I'm just not getting that from the trailer. At all.

Gollum should be a shadow - both literally and figuratively. We're not supposed to know much about him at this point. He is meant to be fairly ambiguous and mysterious, which further ties into the horrific nature of the scene. That is effectively destroyed when you can see him in crystal-clear detail, and he is hopping about in an absurdly adorable fashion. As sinister noted, not once do I get the impression that Bilbo is genuinely horrified at this creature. I don't see the look of a man (or hobbit) who is faced with a very real possibility of being murdered and eaten. That, to me, is a grievous mishandling of such an iconic scene.

I know that Gollum is a fan favorite, and I appreciate the temptation to show Gollum off in those spiffy 2012 graphics. But given what the character should be at this point in the narrative, and given the nature of the famous scene as written in the book, this is a massive disappointment. To make matters worse, it effectively lessens the dramatic impact of seeing Gollum for the first time in The Two Towers, after having the character limited to the shadows just one film before in Fellowship of the Ring. So when we inevitably watch these films in chronological order, FoTR's Gollum is just going to look bizarre now. And that is cruelly ironic, seeing as how faithful that depiction was at the time.

(This post was edited by duats on Sep 21 2012, 5:51am)

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 6:16am

Views: 956

Very well said

For me, this is not just a problem for this "iconic" scene, either. Overcoming his fear of this horrid creature, alone in a dark place, should be a critical moment in the development of Bilbo's character. If Bilbo is indeed just slightly uncomfortable at this point, it will do damage to the narrative.

We shall see in December, I suppose...

totoro
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 6:20am

Views: 926

I completely disagree

Tolkein originally wrote the Hobbit with an extremely sinister Gollum. He went back 30 years later to make Gollum more pitiful, so as to fit the narrative he continues in his trilogy. I think the movie captures the pitiful nature of Gollum much better than glowing eyes in darkness could.

Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 6:21am

Views: 889

Never said he wasn't pitiful

But that is not the equivalent of 100% visible.

totoro
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 6:52am

Views: 896

I'm simply saying I am not disappointed

I want to see the dialog play out, not just hear it. I am not a fan of dark, shadowy film-making. It's a matter of taste.

Although Riddles is a famous part of the book, the narrator did not heavily imply that Bilbo thought more of himself at this point. The Dwarves and Gandalf were duly impressed with his escape, of course. Bilbo seemed more bummed out that he lost his buttons. The part where Bilbo starts to think quite highly of himself is when he rescues the Dwarves from the spiders. In fact, Bilbo stays very hobbity-practical throughout the encounter with Gollum and dodging Goblins on the way out. I didn't notice a significant change in his personal development, other than the fact that he now had possession of a ring of power that has a major impact on the rest of the story. He has more swag, not more swagger.

So I disagree that putting Gollum in the light is going to have any detrimental impact on the character arc.

stormcrow20
Gondor

Sep 21 2012, 7:33am

Views: 933

Uh-oh.

You've found another Lucas parallel! I can hear the debates already: "Gollum riddled first!"

Tongue

In Reply To
Bilbo did not suggest the riddle competition, Gollum did.

geordie
Tol Eressea

Sep 21 2012, 9:37am

Views: 936

I'm a little lost. here -

- in reply to -

"Tolkein originally wrote the Hobbit with an extremely sinister Gollum. He went back 30 years later to make Gollum more pitiful, so as to fit the narrative he continues in his trilogy."

- could you be more plain? I mean; Tolkien did revise Ch.5, 'Riddles in the Dark' so that Gollum's personality would better fit LotR. but that was in 1947, not 30 years later. What's more, it was only by accident that Tolkien's revision was published - he'd sent it to Allen & Unwin as an example of changes he might make to TH if the book went into a 2nd edition. He was very surprised to see his changes in print when the 2nd ed. was published in 1951, along with his changes (which added five whole pages to the text).

Further, the changes were not specifically to make Gollum more pitiful - in the 1st edition, Gollum fully intended to give Bilbo a present if he won the game, and was very apologetic that he could not find the Ring to give to him. He showed Bilbo to the back door then went back to his lake. In the revised edition, Gollum guesses that Bilbo has found the Ring, and tries to find Bilbo to murder him.

Bilbo shows pity to Gollum because that's one of Bilbo's traits - Gollum's plight is pitiable, and Bilbo responds. The emphasis here is that it is Bilbo's good actions which decide what kind of effect the Ring will have on him, as Gandalf said - Bilbo took little harm from the Ring because he began his ownership of it with Pity.

architecthis
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 11:16am

Views: 922

despite the original thread title

I think you've misunderstood my intention

architecthis
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 11:21am

Views: 845

I understand

I do sympathize with this one concern which I feel is less a matter of taste and more an actual effect on the aesthetic of the film. I am hoping that they either remedy this effect in some way or that is simply works better in 3D at the theater. In any case I do have faith in WETA digital as I stated earlier and I'm betting we will be pleasantly surprised.

architecthis
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 11:29am

Views: 890

and I am driving my fiance crazy haha

But I completely agree with your perspective on Bilbo and RA. I too did not enjoy Hitchiker's Guise very much but he seems incredible in this role.

I think that folks who are concerned over the brightness are worried that it will feel too cartoonish as a consequence. I have been concerned from day one about the lack of miniatures on this project and I'm hoping the technology has come far enough to match the quality of hand crafted bigature sets. We will find out soon enough. From what I've seen I am very excited and I think were going to get some very good films - regardless of the technological advancements.

The most important thing is the story, after all, and we all know it's a good one!

architecthis
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 11:35am

Views: 720

Agreed!

architecthis
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 11:39am

Views: 883

something interesting

if you watch the trailer on thehobbit.com it is much darker than it is if you watch it in quicktime.

this is probably inconsequential and only due to the media player that the website is using but I thought it might be worth bringing up.

It tones down the "cartoonyness" quite a bit

(This post was edited by architecthis on Sep 21 2012, 11:47am)

namarie
Rohan

Sep 21 2012, 2:27pm

Views: 820

At first I thought the trailer was just ok but now

after watching it over and over again I think is phenomenal :)

And I got my goosebumps Smile

so no disappointment here ;)

There is always hope

Tim
Tol Eressea

Sep 21 2012, 3:18pm

Views: 761

I'm officially not disappointed

and yet I dare post here. That's right, I live on the edge.

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.

Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 21 2012, 3:53pm

Views: 945

Do you all think we'll get something new from WB/PJ today?

architecthis
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 3:55pm

Views: 885

was wondering this myself

I thought he had something about giving us the trailer and some additional footage, but he may have been referring to the extra endings?

I'm hoping for a production log

Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 21 2012, 4:07pm

Views: 981

Hope we get something

It's 4 AM on a Saturday in New Zealand right now, so if there is anything to come we'll probably have to wait several hours.

(This post was edited by Carne on Sep 21 2012, 4:07pm)

architecthis
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 4:17pm

Views: 830

that may explain it

It is after noon here on the east coast in the states so I was thinking it was getting late but apparently it's not even Saturday yet where you are! haha, I will check back in a few hours

Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 21 2012, 4:21pm

Views: 773

Almost 6:30PM here

Olafr
Registered User

Sep 21 2012, 4:23pm

Views: 912

I liked it!

The new trailer got me excited and I cant wait till Dec 14th!

I do think that the Hobbit will be just like LOTR in that
1) It will be an awesome fantasy/adventure movie
2) PJ & Co will totally butcher Tolkien, but there will be those moments when they do get it right which will make forgive them for a lot of stuff.

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Sep 21 2012, 5:47pm

Views: 869

Never exactly like my vision of TH, but...

I too do not comment often, but do read the threads to see other's views. I did want to add my two farthings to the movie discussion however.

I first read the Hobbit over 40 years ago, and of course have my own vision of what Middle-Earth and the characters in it would look like. A lot of my visions are from Tolkien's own illustrations, and those still stick with me.

That being said, I thoroughly enjoyed LOTR--although not exactly how I envisioned Middle-Earth, and with obvious changes and quotes being used by characters who didn't originally say them (Galadriel's narrative "the world is changing" was originally Treebeard's), I realized that to be effective as a movie for modern audiences, things did need to be changed. I do my best not to pick the movies to pieces, and try to enjoy them in the spirit in which they were made. No one will be 100% happy with the movies, based on their own inner visions, but this is as close as it will get.

I must admit a certain fondness for the Rankin-Bass version of TH, as it was the first major attempt to do so. Although the Dwarves and Bilbo were a bit silly (Balin with glasses!), and I recognized a lot of the voices from other animation (Dr. Quest as Bard!), I was so happy that the Hobbit was finally brought to life. And I suspect PJ's Hobbit will be the same--it may not be my inner vision, but will still be glorious, silly, frightening, and impressive and still--the Hobbit!. I can't wait!

As for the trailer, I've now watched it about a dozen times, and find it absolutely wonderful. I've read people's posts on whether it's too much like LOTR, or not enough, or too silly, or too dark, or too much like a video game (or not enough). I find I don't care! After waiting so long for a really good live-action version of the Hobbit, I am in bliss that it is happening, and couldn't be more delighted.

So, my apologies to any critics, I'm not wanting to deny your objections and critiques, but as a long-time Tolkien fan (maybe longer than some of you have been alive) I am thrilled with the trailer and will be thrilled with the movie.

And by the way, LOVE the Great Goblin!

Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.

"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."

architecthis
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 5:50pm

Views: 908

Could not agree more NT

DanielLB
Immortal

Sep 21 2012, 6:15pm

Views: 842

Not another TORn meltdown! /

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Sep 21 2012, 7:20pm

Views: 890

I hope NT means...

something good?

Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.

"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."

DanielLB
Immortal

Sep 21 2012, 7:23pm

Views: 894

It means "no text"

Used when there is no text in the post, only in the subject line. Smile

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Sep 21 2012, 7:35pm

Views: 802

Thanks! NT :)

Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.

"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."

JWPlatt
Grey Havens

Sep 21 2012, 8:03pm

Views: 932

Subject Lines

The use of the subject line as a message or to be the first partial sentence of a post's body text is one of the most, if not *the* most, annoying community habits here on the forums. The latter making quotes something of a hassle. What's wrong with being creative enough to think of a good subject to go with a complete message body? Yes, yes, then you don't have to waste time by clicking on the post. Big deal. It's still even more annoying than The Green Tint.

Jettorex
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 8:32pm

Views: 876

"WAAAA. WAAAAA. WAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!"

^sound of baby crying^

Hows that?

- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."

My Book---> www.amazon.com/Popcornmaker

Sinister71
Tol Eressea

Sep 21 2012, 8:53pm

Views: 807

but there is also never any feeling of dread

with Gollum hopping around all happy and peppy. It defeats the whole purpose of the scene. which is to be scared and filled with tension. little bits of humor sure, but not oh my god this is so funny humor. which is the route that Peter Jackson seems to be going with this version of Gollum. I was never once saying keep him in the shadows so he can't be seen. Just keep him in subtle shadows enough to show off his features but keep his demeanor the same as Tolkien wrote it. He was a dark skulking creature who lived in the darkness... He meant to murder Bilbo either way whether or not Gollum won or lost the riddle game. He only showed Bilbo the way out because he thought Bilbo already knew it and he couldn't find him. Bilbo simply followed him there to escape.Peppy Happy Gollum is just all wrong for the scene from the book and all they are trying to do is show him off instead of following the actual story... That and the dialogue is too close to Gollum with Sam and Frodo about leading them into Mordor. Seriously PJ couldn't write anything better than what he already wrote 10 plus years ago? Or here's an original idea how about using the dialogue from the book... WOW theres a shocker something that might actually work and be iconic just like the scene is supposed to be. But I guess using Tolkien's dialogue in a movie based on Tolkien's book would be too much to ask wouldn't it Crazy

DanielLB
Immortal

Sep 21 2012, 8:56pm

Views: 835

I think the complete opposite!

I get annoyed when it isn't used Wink

It's the first thing you read, make it part of the sentence! Plus, for those guys that are reading it threaded, a "generic title" doesn't do much good.

Want Hobbit Movie News? Hobbit Headlines of the Week!

Aragalen the Green
Gondor

Sep 21 2012, 11:01pm

Views: 788

Now wait! LOTIP

(LOTIP = Lots of text in post, just so you know).

I learned a valuable skill, and am not ready to relinquish this power so easily. What if I like saving the time to not read one of the many endless discussion of various (and occasionally dubious) importance? Here I was thinking maybe NT meant "no trouble" or "not true" or maybe "new trailer"! (which would have been pretty awesome).

Then again, I suspect I'd better stop here before I get booted to OFF TOPIC like Bombadil.

Smile

Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.

"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."

SirDennisC
Half-elven

Sep 22 2012, 2:00am

Views: 796

Hmmm

It really is too early to say. We've seen what, less than a minute of a 20 minute scene? The scene begins with Bilbo at the end of his wits (and the trail he was following), recovering from a bump on the head. Also he was rather more comfortable than humans would be under ground, and upon meeting Gollum was only "anxious" because he wasn't sure of the creature's alignment be it chaotic good, neutral, lawful evil and so on... nah, he wasn't sure if Gollum was a friend of the Goblins or not. Tolkien says nothing about him being frightened by him though. At least not at first.

Keep in mind too that Gollum was trying to appear friendly, at least until he found out more about Bilbo and his sword.

Want a The Hobbit cover of your own for World Hobbit Day? Click Here
Thank you Magpie!

(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Sep 22 2012, 2:02am)

totoro
Lorien

Sep 22 2012, 6:26am

Views: 743

I just watched the Gollum scene again

I know this is supposed to be the NOT disappointed thread, but I noticed something that I think is going to ruin the film for me. Gollum has more than 6 teeth. Seriously! Count them! Gollum said he had 6 in the book and PJ is just going for spectacle by putting at least 7 in Gollum's mouth. Well, we'll just have to see if the movie isn't as bad as I am pretty sure it will be now.

BlackCountry
Rivendell

Sep 23 2012, 1:58pm

Views: 711

Yes yes YES!!!! :)

Love the Sting ending in particular especially when Balin describes to Bilbo about Sting being a Letter Opener lol! And I'm really digging Ken Stott and his Scottish accent as Balin as well. I am going to love that character.

And say what you will about the Goblin King(?) fallin on the Dwarves - I really did find it funny!!!! :D

Alternate Endings aside - Radagast's Rabbit Sled was SWEET!!! :)

I do not want what it is not mine.... I only want what comes from within....

Kristin Thompson
Rohan

Oct 11 2012, 2:33am

Views: 641

I'm with you, Sunflower!

Sorry I took so long to respond, but I was at the Vancouver International Film Festival for the past two weeks, immersed in foreign cinema, and wasn't online much.

Judging from both trailers, The Hobbit looks like it's keeping up the same "overdesign" that we saw in LOTR, and I think it will fit in well with its sequel. I'm sure I'll disagree with some decisions, as I did with LOTR, but I expect to enjoy The Hobbit just as much.