The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thoughts on The Great Goblin?



Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 20 2012, 11:14am


Views: 2995
Thoughts on The Great Goblin?
So... That's the Great Goblin at the end of the trailer falling on the dwarves Unsure I thought it was a troll... After looking at the hi res pictures it's pretty obvious it's him (crown and all)

The look of him? I hate it. HATE it. The guy is the size of a troll! Have a look at him compared to the dwarves...Dwalin is barely the size of his hand!!

The orcs in Rings actually looked real (if that makes any sense what-so-ever) ...well maybe believable is a better word. And what is with that chin?? Probably the worst design of any creature I have seen in any of these films... Sad.

Does anyone like the look??

Can't believe it -that was the one orc I was really looking forward to seeing. I guess Azog and Bolg will be just as exaggerated... I mean how are we supposed to believe that he is of the same species as characters like Lurtz, Gothmog etc


(This post was edited by Avnar on Sep 20 2012, 11:15am)


Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 20 2012, 11:16am


Views: 1631
I really like the design
He's a big, fat goblin after all.

Is it the design itself you don't like or the size?


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 20 2012, 11:18am


Views: 1387
Both!
The size bothers me more than the design though... They may as well just say he is a troll!


Vangalad
Lorien


Sep 20 2012, 11:28am


Views: 1271
Not yet sold 100%
that this is the great goblin but if he is, looking at drawings from J.Howe and A.Lee, yes he looks the part... he really is BIG.

After enough viewings he does look like the other goblinsin the trailer,same colours,flesh,etc but is rather gigantic, I like the design.

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


Lost Hobbit
Rivendell


Sep 20 2012, 11:32am


Views: 1502
This is what is says in the book
"There in the shadows on a large flat stone sat a tremendous goblin with a huge head"

Chapter 4 - Over Hill and Under Hill

Additionally, we've got this old drawing by Howe



and I tried to put some lines to calculate an approximate height of GK, compared to tallest dwarf, Dwalin.



Anyway, I don't think it was mistake or anything else, the decision is intentional and certainly has justifications, based on principal designers' visions.


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Sep 20 2012, 7:32pm)


Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 20 2012, 11:36am


Views: 1266
And he probably won't look that huge next to Gandalf
Who is quite taller than Dwalin.


stoutfiles
Rohan

Sep 20 2012, 11:43am


Views: 1258
I like the first picture
But I'm not fond of Boss Nass in the second picture. Having his dead body not be comic relief that breaks the laws of physics would be nice, too.


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Sep 20 2012, 11:48am


Views: 1219
At first I also thought it was a kind of troll
but the goblin king will feel to the audience a lot different when he's alive, that's gotta be sure. And why not being a fat wabbly goblin with a doublechin with the size of another head? :D I want to see him talking and behave orcish, I think then the design will be alright.

Here's Alan Lee's great goblin:

http://fantasy.mrugala.net/Alan%20Lee%20-%20The%20Hobbit/Alan%20Lee%20-%20The%20Hobbit%20-%2023%20-%20The%20great%20goblin.jpg

Kinda looks alike.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Sep 20 2012, 11:48am


Views: 1303
not keen on it
he is much too big and I didnt like they way he flops down, it looked like sausage meat rather than a creature. Dont like the obvious 'funny' moment either, I knew Bofur would end up the funny one.


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Sep 20 2012, 11:58am


Views: 1261
I guess
the king will be a stupid, but angry type of guy and before the "fall down" scene he might be pretty mean. So this might be the scene where PJ takes the pressure and darkness out of it. You have to remember that they are chased for a quite a time, don't think that there are a lot of jokes coming.


Steerpike
Bree


Sep 20 2012, 12:27pm


Views: 1154
I'm detecting a slight hint of Barry Humphries in the design...



Lucky Luke
Bree


Sep 20 2012, 12:43pm


Views: 1125
Broken bridge
The stuff over the dwarves looks like a broken goblin bridge. I'm thinking the fall of the Goblin King will follow the fall of the company on a bridge in a scene similar to the bridge scene in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 20 2012, 12:43pm


Views: 1103
I like the design too!
Nothing really to complain about.

In terms of the trailer, I didn't like it. It's just silly. And I'm a very serious person .... Laugh


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Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 20 2012, 12:50pm


Views: 1209
Think about this though...
In Reply To
the king will be a stupid, but angry type of guy and before the "fall down" scene he might be pretty mean. So this might be the scene where PJ takes the pressure and darkness out of it. You have to remember that they are chased for a quite a time, don't think that there are a lot of jokes coming.
Everyone keeps saying that it won't be all laughs...but even the serious scenes seem to have jokes thrown in Mad

Riddles in the dark
Great Goblin

I mean -is one of the dwarves going to crack a joke after the Wargs attack them???


Elutherian
Rohan


Sep 20 2012, 1:12pm


Views: 1168
That's pretty much how the Great Goblin was described in the book...
...He's not supposed to be as menacing as Lurtz or Gothmog. He's like the Jabba the Hut of Middle-Earth villains.
The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


Elutherian
Rohan


Sep 20 2012, 1:18pm


Views: 1083
That makes sense.
The Hobbit had a lot of humor thrown in with the serious scenes, especially early on in the book.

Remember, we're not dealing with the Dark Lord Sauron covering Middle-Earth in darkness. We're dealing with a group of 13 dwarves, a reluctant hobbit, and a pushy wizard on an adventure to kill a dragon and take treasure out of a mountain.

Seriousness level - 50.
The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


stoutfiles
Rohan

Sep 20 2012, 1:31pm


Views: 1068
Fair enough
But when the party was all on the skiff about to fly away from the sail barge, Jabba's dead body didn't fall on them so we could all have a laugh at their expense.

Perhaps if this was in the book I could understand and ignore the joke, but the fact remains that Gandalf slayed the Great Goblin in his hall. The escape should not have his dead body landing on them as they escape. Of course, PJ will likely declare this kill too easy and there will be a Goblin King fight scene where he dies on the edge of something high, only to fall on them later as they escape.


Elutherian
Rohan


Sep 20 2012, 1:33pm


Views: 1040
Something tells me...
...that this gag occurs a while after Gandalf kills the GG.

I think it will fit better in the film.
The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Sep 20 2012, 1:38pm


Views: 1017
I dunno, a dragon is pretty serious business. ;) //
 


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 20 2012, 1:46pm


Views: 995
Boy...
In Reply To
But when the party was all on the skiff about to fly away from the sail barge, Jabba's dead body didn't fall on them so we could all have a laugh at their expense.

Perhaps if this was in the book I could understand and ignore the joke, but the fact remains that Gandalf slayed the Great Goblin in his hall. The escape should not have his dead body landing on them as they escape. Of course, PJ will likely declare this kill too easy and there will be a Goblin King fight scene where he dies on the edge of something high, only to fall on them later as they escape.
Reading your post makes me REALLY realise how stupid it is Unsure

Get rid of that scene for the love of god!


dave_lf
Gondor

Sep 20 2012, 2:31pm


Views: 933
Down, down from Goblin-Town
It looks to me like the entire company has just fallen from above, probably as part of their escape right after Gandalf kills the GG. Their fall was broken by the wooden ramps/scaffolding they landed on. They've just realized they're alive and relatively unharmed, Bofur makes his relieved comment, and then...well, you know.


Valandil ed Imladris
Lorien


Sep 20 2012, 2:39pm


Views: 905
I don't want it to be all serious
it has to have a lighter tone. You'll get your dark passages anyway, and in the trailer you also see gollum all mean just before the title hits the screen. Gollum has his cute smeagol joky side and also the side of gollum. I think this stands for the whole movie: One side rather funny and one quite dark. That's a nice ambivalence!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 20 2012, 2:42pm


Views: 922
I really cannot discern "The Crown"
in the images of the fallen what ever it is. Maybe I am just looking wrong but...
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 20 2012, 2:56pm


Views: 946
Clearly seen here
Link


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(This post was edited by DanielLB on Sep 20 2012, 2:56pm)


dave_lf
Gondor

Sep 20 2012, 2:57pm


Views: 863
Now that I look again...
...is that actually a crown, and is it actually on his head? There are similar-looking rivets (or something) on the boards near his feet.


Nightingale
Rohan


Sep 20 2012, 3:00pm


Views: 638
You surprise me :-p//
 


"You can never get a cup of tea large enough or a book long enough to suit me" - C. S. Lewis

"That line between the earth and sky came beckoning to me..." - Laurie's Song


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 20 2012, 3:05pm


Views: 628
Yes, on his head. /
 


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DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 20 2012, 3:07pm


Views: 621
It's just that one shot. Everything else I love. :-) /
 


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Elessar
Valinor


Sep 20 2012, 3:08pm


Views: 620
Looks good
He's like the art shown above which is how I had pictured him. I saw a picture of the face in the annual book and so it was nice to see the full reveal.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 20 2012, 3:20pm


Views: 703
That large goblin in the Hobbit annual looked infinitely better
Is this the same?


Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 20 2012, 3:23pm


Views: 621
That was probably concept art
Plus we only see the Great Goblin dead in the trailer. He might look quite different in motion.


Elessar
Valinor


Sep 20 2012, 3:23pm


Views: 607
Pretty sure it is.
Looks exactly the same to me.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Sep 20 2012, 3:40pm


Views: 601
Was worried he'd look more like Boss Nass, however
Not sure about this design in any event...will have to see it in motion (falling on the Dwarves doesn't count) first.
My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Vangalad
Lorien


Sep 20 2012, 3:53pm


Views: 572
Do you have any pic from this annual to share?
Nevermind if it's a trouble, just curious to see it.

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


Snaga
Lorien


Sep 20 2012, 4:18pm


Views: 552
I really like it...
...and as far has him being big, that's no problem. The LOTR films established that there was a tremendous variety of orcs and goblins with many different shapes and sizes. It only stands to reason that some are going to be huge, and it's not a far stretch to assume that a huge bully of a goblin could push and shove his way into command of a goblin nation.

What bothers me about that little glimpse of the trailer is that it makes it apparent the writers decided to go another way with the goblin king's death, as it is clear he dies after a battle and not from Gandalf suddenly appearing and striking him down. I can see why they decided to change this part in adapting it for film, but I also think it would have worked with a nice bit of suprise and irony for the 'movie firsters' if they built up the extreme badness of the goblin king as a character to suddenly have his head fly from his shoulders with Gandalf appearing behind him. They could have had their battle AFTER that.

Oh well. I still like the look of him, and the funny little bit of anti-climax when he falls and nearly crushes the party.
"Alas for Boromir! It was too sore a trial!"

-Faramir


Solicitr
Gondor

Sep 20 2012, 4:22pm


Views: 556
BUT
In Reply To
The Hobbit had a lot of humor thrown in with the serious scenes, especially early on in the book.

Remember, we're not dealing with the Dark Lord Sauron covering Middle-Earth in darkness. We're dealing with a group of 13 dwarves, a reluctant hobbit, and a pushy wizard on an adventure to kill a dragon and take treasure out of a mountain.

Seriousness level - 50.
There seems to be no trace of Tolkien's dry, puckish and slightly professorial humor. Instead we're getting juvenile Jar-Jar Binks stuff. Knights Who Say NI might be funny, too, but they're not Tolkien.


Elessar
Valinor


Sep 20 2012, 4:25pm


Views: 548
Not with me right now
I can try to do something when I get home.


Vangalad
Lorien


Sep 20 2012, 4:53pm


Views: 502
Much appreciated :-) //
 

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


nobofthepony
Lorien


Sep 20 2012, 4:55pm


Views: 552
My main thought is that this was the worst initial character reveal ever//
 


WhiskFishercat
Bree


Sep 20 2012, 4:59pm


Views: 563
exactly..and the worse part is...
now we all know what to expect when we see the dwarves in that heap of debris. That was a spoiler for sure Unsure

I like the design though, the nastier, the uglier, i cant wait to see that mother puss bucket speak!


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 20 2012, 5:11pm


Views: 514
But that scene might not be in the final film.... //
 


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Sep 20 2012, 5:19pm


Views: 494
He falls well.
 
Frito groaned. "I wish I had never been born," he said.

"Do not say that, dear Frito," cried Orlon. "It was a happy minute for us all when you were born."


imin
Valinor


Sep 20 2012, 5:48pm


Views: 533
Seems to have a massive goitre!
That was the first thing i thought when i saw him, other than not knowing it was the Great Goblin as i thought it was a troll!

I think the crown looks decent from what we can see, made from pig iron probably with teeth or something similar stuck in.

The actual design, its hard to tell really from something which is lying dead sideways on the screen for about 0.5 second but i thought it looked alright, im sure it will look better when moving around and alive :P


kjeevah
Bree

Sep 20 2012, 5:53pm


Views: 477
What he looks like in motion
In Reply To
Not sure about this design in any event...will have to see it in motion (falling on the Dwarves doesn't count) first.
if you want to see it in motion this is a fairly good indication, this is the actor who is playing him:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1F7E7lAp-hM


nobofthepony
Lorien


Sep 20 2012, 5:59pm


Views: 500
Bilbo may have embellished this in his telling of the story
Ok...I have theory that might help those of us who find the GG's last-minute cameo in the trailer a bit...to much.

Remember, Bilbo is telling the story. We may see some...err...embellishments on his part.

Then cut to Frodo, saying, "Come on, Bilbo."

Bilbo: "It happened just as I told you!"

Frodo: "Have it your own way. Another pint of the Gaffer's home brew?"

Bilbo: "Right, then. Where was I?"

Even if that doesn't happen, we can comfort ourselves knowing that what we are seeing is Bilbo's re-telling (unreliable narrator) and may not correspond to the actual events in a completely accurate manner.

Let's face it...Bilbo and PJ have a lot in common in the way they tell stories ;-)


(This post was edited by nobofthepony on Sep 20 2012, 6:06pm)


totoro
Lorien

Sep 20 2012, 6:06pm


Views: 472
Not so sure about that
I think Gandy cuts GG in half, and the dwarves and Gandy fall or jump to get away from the swarms of goblins. That was a hard part to envision in the book. Gandy has a spark storm that sends the goblins scrambling, but there were so damn many of them. How did the dwarves dodge between them all? Here it looks like GG is near the exit and follows them down. Or, at least half of him does.
In Reply To
...that this gag occurs a while after Gandalf kills the GG.

I think it will fit better in the film.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 20 2012, 6:30pm


Views: 425
I preferred the annual Goblin too /
 


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DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 20 2012, 6:32pm


Views: 433
Of the Great Goblin?
See this thread


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Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 20 2012, 7:35pm


Views: 412
Oversized images removed.
Sorry Lost Hobbit, but those images were much bigger than our maximum. Have a look at the image guidelines below from the FAQs - you are welcome to resize your images to the guidelines and repost them within this thread:


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Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.

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Vangalad
Lorien


Sep 20 2012, 9:12pm


Views: 360
Yes...
 Actually I've seen these!

Maybe there is another pic from the annual that Elessar spoke of, that could spread some light on the matter.

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


Elessar
Valinor


Sep 20 2012, 11:49pm


Views: 509
Can't find the photo I took.
Can take one with my iPad if you'd like.

Edit: it was just the head shot from the annual like above.


(This post was edited by Elessar on Sep 20 2012, 11:51pm)


Vangalad
Lorien


Sep 21 2012, 12:04am


Views: 494
That's fine,
you don't have to.
I just thought there could be something we hadn't already seen.

All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


Elessar
Valinor


Sep 21 2012, 12:13am


Views: 532
My bad. I was thinking you might not have seen the pics.
 


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 21 2012, 2:03am


Views: 491
i'm not convinced
i think your trying too hard there bud to prove its the great goblin, looks more like a troll to me. there was also light-heartedness in LOTR's, and plenty of it. Sam hitting orcs with his pan in moria?


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 4:39am


Views: 476
Sam hitting orcs with his pan
Was not exactly a highlight in the film (never heard anyone describe it positively, really) and was a brief, and very minor, moment.

This involves one of the key major villains of film 1 being part of an implausible gag, all for the sake of setting up a bad joke.

Big difference.

And it is almost certainly the Great Goblin, due to the very simple fact that he's wearing a crown...


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 21 2012, 4:50am


Views: 459
Okay...
How about the crown then?


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 21 2012, 5:10am


Views: 438
and did i say....
sam hitting orcs with his pan was the highlight of the film?? so i suppose your saying that the great goblin falling on-top of the dwarves will be the highlight of the film...? also The Hobbit was a children's book was it not? so why are you guys so upset that its not as dark/mature as LOTR's which was geared for the adult demo?


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 21 2012, 5:16am


Views: 452
sorry i did not freeze frame the entire trailer
i thought the goblin king was that thing on the german card released a few weeks ago, nevertheless i'm not disappointed in the least bit, after all he is the "great" goblin.


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 21 2012, 5:20am


Views: 440
So...
Alexander the "great" when portrayed on film should weigh 6000 kilos and have a chin down to his knees? I mean it's not as if we don't know the size capabilities of a man...

I mean in Rings we saw hundreds of orcs bigger than a troll...didn't we?

No matter how you spin it -he looks terrible. His hand is bigger than Dwalin!!!


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 21 2012, 5:30am


Views: 449
oh...wow
well if i'm not mistaken alexander the great is part of 'real' life history not fiction, and if i'm not mistaken again there is no fossil record of a 6000 kilo man or am i wrong? Tolkien describes the great goblin as a "great" goblin, meaning big/huge in size and also he is very very old, so why couldn't he have reached that size over a long period of time of just sitting around eating and eating..?


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 21 2012, 5:36am


Views: 448
Clearly that went over your head...
I was pointing out that just because someone has a "great" tacked onto their name doesn't mean they can suddenly be as big as King Kong Unsure

And yes it is fiction -but Jackson already layed down the "rules" with the rings films...

Now as to The Great Goblin getting that big from "sitting around eating food" I say this -sure! It could affect his waistline but NOT his height!

You can argue the point all you like, but ask almost every poster whether they thought that was a troll or the big man himself?? Indeed.


leonmuse
Rivendell

Sep 21 2012, 5:45am


Views: 444
Weird
I'll be very frank here and say i didnt like to see him dead on a trailer. I wanted to see him dying on the movie. Such a pity :P


totoro
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 5:55am


Views: 453
Like I imagined
I thought the Great Goblin was supposed to be giant. I would have been surprised if he was no larger than any other goblin. The artwork has always portrayed him as large, and the book portrayed him as large, too, though it did not describe exactly how large. He is supposedly a relative of the Balrogs that took the form of a huge goblin, but is not actually a goblin. Kind of like how Gandalf took the form of a man, but is not really a man.

I don't understand what the big deal is. You wanted the Great Goblin to be smaller to suit some psychological need? Get over it. You wanted PJ to read your mind as do as you demanded? Get help.


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 21 2012, 5:59am


Views: 425
Personal attack?
Are you for real? Go away... You are boring me.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 6:21am


Views: 432
Since your arrival
Your tone has been hostile and rude. Please read Silverlode's thread on the subject of forum etiquette, and try to stick to debating issues, not attacking persons.


duats
Grey Havens

Sep 21 2012, 6:27am


Views: 410
.....?
"He is supposedly a relative of the Balrogs that took the form of a huge goblin, but is not actually a goblin. Kind of like how Gandalf took the form of a man, but is not really a man."

Er... I don't know where you heard that, but it's inaccurate to say the least. He is what he is: a large goblin.


(This post was edited by duats on Sep 21 2012, 6:28am)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 6:31am


Views: 437
Could you provide the source you are referencing for that?
I have never heard anything about the Great Goblin actually being a Balrog...


totoro
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 6:35am


Views: 416
Sorry
I did not intend the remark to be a personal attack, but it does come across that way. What I should have said is I think the portrayal of the Great Goblin as large in artwork and potential, though not explicit, huge size in the book led me to think the Great Goblin was the size he is portrayed in the trailer. I think that those involved in the GG's movie debut were perfectly reasonable in following that tradition.
In Reply To
Your tone has been hostile and rude. Please read Silverlode's thread on the subject of forum etiquette, and try to stick to debating issues, not attacking persons.


totoro
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 6:39am


Views: 417
I didn't say he was a Balrog
I am surprised you did not know he was a relative. I'll give you a hint: it starts with an M.

In Reply To
I have never heard anything about the Great Goblin actually being a Balrog...


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 21 2012, 6:45am


Views: 407
Sorry to say this
But you have been almost certainly misinformed. Nowhere does Tolkien suggest that the Great Goblin is one of the Maiar.

Did Rateliff suggest something along these lines in the Annotated Hobbit?


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Sep 21 2012, 6:48am)


totoro
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 6:57am


Views: 438
I am not suggesting this is proof, but quoting wikipedia
There are hints in the History of Middle-earth series of books, (especially in Morgoth's Ring in the section "Myths Transformed"), that some Orc leaders, such as the First Age's Boldog, or the Great Goblin encountered by Bilbo and the Dwarves, may in fact have been fallen Maiar which had taken Orc form:


I know my Hobbit and LotR pretty well, but must confess I have not read much of the other materials. I thought this was well-known and accepted.


stormcrow20
Gondor


Sep 21 2012, 8:20am


Views: 412
Pantastic!
Good ol' Sam, that hobbit has more than a few skills with a skillet!

I thought Sam's use of his frying pan in battle was a nice touch. I seem to remember others here had positive opinions of it, as well. It certainly makes a practical weapon in a pinch! And it looks as if Bombur will use his ladle and cleaver in a similar fashion. I'd wager he's rather clever with that cleaver! Goblin-cleaver, that is. Tongue

Now, despite my own bad jokes, I totally agree about the Great Goblin (if that is him).


In Reply To
Sam hitting orcs with his pan...was not exactly a highlight in the film (never heard anyone describe it positively, really) and was a brief, and very minor, moment.

This involves one of the key major villains of film 1 being part of an implausible gag, all for the sake of setting up a bad joke.



(This post was edited by stormcrow20 on Sep 21 2012, 8:26am)


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 21 2012, 1:23pm


Views: 349
SA is right.
Saying someone should "get help" is very personal and against our Terms of Service. Further violations result in a formal warning, and after three warnings, the user is banned. Reading Silverlode's post might help clarify our rules for posting here.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 21 2012, 1:49pm


Views: 351
Perhaps the Great Goblin should not be played as the arch villain some of you desire.
First off the Great Goblin is not called King in the text. Secondly Goblins are not too bright. Keeping with the lighter nature of the Hobbit in general the Great Goblin should not be taken seriously as an enemy. How ever I am curious as to what has been worked out to cause his death. If not a thrust from Glamdring then what?
Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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triptrap
Lorien

Sep 21 2012, 3:02pm


Views: 313
big like for his design
if we're only talking about his design: i love it and it comes pretty close to what i had imagined him. in the end he is what he is - a big, fat, nasty orc

what i didn't like was that he fell on the dwarves, not because of humor(i found that ok), but because this way it takes out a scene of the book i loved - Gandalf splitting the GG into halfs or at least beheading him seems much cooler and also ads to the opinion of gandalf that the viewer may have: a mighty wizard, who just disappears and then turns up to instantly slay that beast.

on a side note: what do you guys think about the general design of the orcs? In general i like that new "breed" of orcs if you want so(especially their heads and long arms), but i think (of course based on the few glimpses in the trailer) they are much too small and not terrifying enough. I mean seriously, most of them have the maximum height of a hobbit and are smaller than even dwarves http://www-images.theonering.org/images/hobbittrailer02/hobbittrailer02-064.jpg
whereas in the book they are described as "giant, goblin-like creatures"

also, they lack some armor i thinkUnsure


Snaga
Lorien


Sep 21 2012, 4:18pm


Views: 275
My votes in for 'Razor Sharp Boomerang'
Laugh
In Reply To
First off the Great Goblin is not called King in the text. Secondly Goblins are not too bright. Keeping with the lighter nature of the Hobbit in general the Great Goblin should not be taken seriously as an enemy. How ever I am curious as to what has been worked out to cause his death. If not a thrust from Glamdring then what?
"Alas for Boromir! It was too sore a trial!"

-Faramir


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Sep 22 2012, 1:02am


Views: 221
its not a personal attack at all
just because you have your own personal vision of the character while reading the book should not mean when it is adapted into a film and it doesn't look exactly how you would like it to be that it is automatically "horrible" and PJ has no talent.


(This post was edited by MouthofSauron on Sep 22 2012, 1:04am)


Phibbus
Rohan


Sep 22 2012, 4:07am


Views: 232
Actually, he did....
In Reply To
But you have been almost certainly misinformed. Nowhere does Tolkien suggest that the Great Goblin is one of the Maiar.

Did Rateliff suggest something along these lines in the Annotated Hobbit?
I posted about this a while back during the whole Zombie Azog speculation: http://newboards.theonering.net/...i?post=481992#481992

While I cited Rateliff's proposition that Azog, Bolg, and GG may have been "Boldogs," Tolkien himself did, I believe, propose the same possibility in a letter to his son. I'll see if I can dig up the reference.

I never did warm up to some of the things Tolkien postulated in those late essays.
Man is but an ass if he go about to expound this dream.


totoro
Lorien

Sep 22 2012, 6:41am


Views: 217
Noted
I can't suggest that a person who wants PJ to read his mind and then do as telepathically instructed should get psychological help? I promise to never make such a suggestion again.

I am now sending telepathic commands. Do not deviate from your instructions. This means you, whoever is reading this!

Oh, and PJ, get your mind over here. I have a thing or to to inject into your brain, my friend. We're going to start with time warping to get those damn elves out of Helm's Deep.



Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Sep 22 2012, 12:29pm


Views: 175
I think it may be the quote from HOME
"For Morgoth had many servants, the oldest and most potent of whom were immortal, belonging indeed in their beginning to the Maiar; and these evil spirits like their Master could take on visible forms. Those whose business it was to direct the Orcs often took Orkish shapes, though they were greater and more terrible.Thus it was that the histories speak of Great Orcs or Orc- captains who were not slain, and who reappeared in battle through years far longer than the span of the lives of Men."

Now of course this does not specifically mention the GG by name but he would be a possibility.

LR


Elessar
Valinor


Sep 22 2012, 5:40pm


Views: 175
So you're saying there is a chance.... lol
I read that before myself. It would make sense why some Orcs or Goblins were greater and larger than others as Morgoth wanted every advantage he could get in his war. So if they were not slain they would be around as Sauron because the #1 guy.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Sep 24 2012, 11:46pm


Views: 151
I am fine with it. And I am not one to sign on blindly for everything Peter does.
Maybe he IS part troll, or some anamolous giant among goblins. A monster, if you will, amongst monsters. A freak whose massive size has elevated him amongst his brutal kind. I really don't mind his general look/
In Reply To
So... That's the Great Goblin at the end of the trailer falling on the dwarves Unsure I thought it was a troll... After looking at the hi res pictures it's pretty obvious it's him (crown and all)

The look of him? I hate it. HATE it. The guy is the size of a troll! Have a look at him compared to the dwarves...Dwalin is barely the size of his hand!!

The orcs in Rings actually looked real (if that makes any sense what-so-ever) ...well maybe believable is a better word. And what is with that chin?? Probably the worst design of any creature I have seen in any of these films... Sad.

Does anyone like the look??

Can't believe it -that was the one orc I was really looking forward to seeing. I guess Azog and Bolg will be just as exaggerated... I mean how are we supposed to believe that he is of the same species as characters like Lurtz, Gothmog etc
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elthir
Grey Havens

Sep 26 2012, 5:41pm


Views: 146
tremendous
When first we meet the Goblins we have: 'Out jumped the goblins, big goblins, great ugly looking goblins, lots of goblins...' six to each Dwarf, at least, and two even for Bilbo.

And describing the Great Goblin: '... sat a tremendous goblin with a huge head'

And later, there is a passage 'low and roughly made' but that 'was not too difficult for the hobbit', despite him stubbing his toes. The passage was also thought (by Bilbo) to be: 'a bit low for goblins, at least for the big ones', Bilbo not knowing that even the big ones go along at great speed stooping low with their hands almost on the ground.

So goblins can be pretty small, as we see later in The Lord of the Rings, although there are some bigger ones too obviously. As has been noted in other threads, a 'huge' Uruk in Moria that forces Boromir (!) to the ground was yet only 'almost' man-high.

Of course the word in the books is tremendous; how big is a tremendous goblin with a huge head?

Hard to say, but even if he were bigger than this 'huge' Uruk he might only be the general size of an average man, which still would be bigger than Bilbo or the Dwarves of course. I don't imagine the Great Goblin as some giant creature that far surpasses goblin-kind...


... but then again it's a film, and Jackson has his own ideas.


(This post was edited by Elthir on Sep 26 2012, 5:50pm)