The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Some new(ish) spoilers and snippets



DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 4 2012, 2:59pm


Views: 4009
Some new(ish) spoilers and snippets

This website has an article up with some new spoilers (some old, some speculation) from this years DragonCon, during TORn's panel.

The most interesting bits:


Quote

Although Sylvester McCoy as Radagast the Brown is rumored to have been included in the London filming of the White Council scene with Saruman, Gandalf, Galadriel, and Elrond (pictured above), he was not in White Council scenes screened at this year's San Diego Comic Con.



Quote

Figwit returns! Bret Mackenzie will appear in The Hobbit as Lindir, an elf in Rivendell who is present during a poetry reading by Bilbo at Elrond's house.



Quote

Thrain and Thror appear in the first film and we will most likely see them in earlier (and happier) times as part of sequences that illustrate the dwarven race of Middle-earth in its glory days. The panel was split on whether we'll see the history of Moria, such as the battle at the Gates of Moria.



Quote

We'll see Legolas and his father Thranduil spar.



Quote

What Smaug looks like is being kept a complete secret. During a five-week stint that Larry Curtis, the DragonCon Tolkien track coordinator, spent working on The Hobbit there were absolutely no trace of the dragon anywhere on or off set. The offices of illustrators John Howe and Alan Lee were similarly vacant of Smaug sketches.



And most importantly:


Quote

The OneRing folks also revealed some exclusive set pics, but requested that they continue to be kept hush-hush



Come on TORN .... hand 'em over!!!


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Sep 4 2012, 3:01pm)


Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 4 2012, 3:04pm


Views: 1993
I heard Smaug is going to be about the size of Laketown

Wink


Ardamírë
Valinor


Sep 4 2012, 3:14pm


Views: 1924
Love it all!

Except keeping the pictures from us! FrownWink

Radagast - so his inclusion in the White Council is still unknown. But since I assume there will be more than one council scene, it's very possible he's in some but not all of them.

Now who all was filming in London? The report makes it sound like perhaps Cate, Ian, and Hugo all went to London. That would be great.

Figwit - seems like the poetry scene from LOTR will just be lifted seamlessly into The Hobbit. Sounds good to me. Cool

Thrain & Thror - figured we'd get them in AUJ. Can't wait to see Erebor in all it's glory. I'm sure the Dale set will be part of this scene.

Legolas & Thranduil - sounds cool. It was awesome seeing them training together in the vlog.

Smaug - so glad he's be kept secret. It's as it should be!

"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast, as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower."


dave_lf
Gondor

Sep 4 2012, 3:18pm


Views: 1867
Lindir

I suspect the writer just looked Lindir up on the internet, and that's what he got based on the scene in LotR. But it is certainly possible that The Hobbit will include a scene of Bilbo reading a poem to Lindir as a sort of homage.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 4 2012, 3:26pm


Views: 1916
Perhaps the size of a B52 Bomber?

Anyway, I will wager that Smaug is bigger than a breadbox.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Ardamírë
Valinor


Sep 4 2012, 3:27pm


Views: 1861
The vlogs show a feast in Rivendell.

I wouldn't be surprised if the poem is read then. Very likely I think.

"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast, as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower."


mandel
Rivendell


Sep 4 2012, 3:30pm


Views: 1903
In an interview...

...Benedict Cumberbatch said that Smaug is the size of the Empire State Building. But it might very well have been an off-hand hyperbole...


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 4 2012, 3:32pm


Views: 1858
I like the idea of a poetry reading...

Missed the Hall of Fire in 'Fellowship'


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 4 2012, 3:41pm


Views: 1809
Well that makes sense...

... given that when he goes down, he takes pretty much the entire town with him Cool



The Plan 9 Interview... in celebration of the 10th anniversary of the release of The Fellowship of the Ring.


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 4 2012, 3:43pm


Views: 1784
That "poetry reading" needs, I think, different punctuation to make proper sense...

... I think the writer is trying to describe who Lindir is, so what he meant to say is "Bret Mackenzie will appear in The Hobbit as Lindir, an elf in Rivendell who [according to the book] is present during a poetry reading by Bilbo at Elrond's house."

I don't think the writer is saying that Bilbo will actually do a poetry reading with Lindir watching over.



The Plan 9 Interview... in celebration of the 10th anniversary of the release of The Fellowship of the Ring.

(This post was edited by Earl on Sep 4 2012, 3:44pm)


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 4 2012, 3:48pm


Views: 1839
The problem is

At of the time that the company reaches Rivendell, Bilbo should not have reached the point of reciting poetry. That would really lessen the theme of his growth and change.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


mandel
Rivendell


Sep 4 2012, 3:49pm


Views: 1863
Some speculation about Gandalf on this basis of this article

Late in the article, it says:


Quote
The movies focus on the journies of three characters: Bilbo Baggins, Thorin Oakenshield, and Gandalf. The panel was very insistent that Thorin will not be portrayed as a supporting character; that is he is absolutely a main character in these films. Bilbo and Thorin's journies have emotional arcs to them, while Gandalf is more plot-heavy.


Now, based on the wording here, it seems to me that the 'journies' of these characters will not simply be literal journeys, but character development arcs.

If this is right, then I wonder, in particular, what Gandalf's character arc will be. It's clear in the novel what the basic character developments are for Bilbo and Thorin, but not so much for Gandalf. What is his character arc going to be for the films?

Here's some speculation. As people have been pointing out in the current Reading Room discussion of TH, in the novel, Gandalf is confident, even flippant and arrogant at times in TH. But in the LOTR, his character is much more somber and serious. One important character arc for him might lie in this change. Encountering the Necromancer and making the sobering discovery that he's Sauron might very well cause a deep change in Gandalf's outlook.

As far as I know, there isn't any indication in Tolkien's work that the Istari know precisely what their tasks are in being sent to Middle-Earth. I can imagine Gandalf, upon discovering that Sauron has returned, undergoing the realization that *this* is his task - that he hasn't been sent to Middle-Earth just to aid in the minor squabbles and trials of its people, but to be a leader in the final battle against the last remnant of Morgoth's rebellion. This indeed would naturally be a character-altering moment for him, and would explain the personality change from TH to LOTR.

Seem plausible?


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Sep 4 2012, 4:14pm


Views: 1739
. . . and smaller than the Lonely Mountain!

We'll win both bets . . .


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the Road has gone
And I must follow, if I can

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 4 2012, 4:17pm


Views: 1726
"Plot heavy"

Suggests there is little development of Gandalf's character.

Stuff happens that involves Gandalf.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


mandel
Rivendell


Sep 4 2012, 4:22pm


Views: 1723
Yeah, I know...

...I was just stretching for an idea.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 4 2012, 4:38pm


Views: 1695
Early form of poetry?

It was quite a journey just getting to Rivendell!


Carne
Tol Eressea

Sep 4 2012, 4:49pm


Views: 1645
Really hope we get to see those pictures soon!

Or at least someone can tell what was shown?


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Sep 4 2012, 4:54pm


Views: 1645
Thanks for this, DanielLB!

Whilst I want to see as much of Radagast as possible, I hope that he is not clearly portrayed as a member of the White Council (i.e. he's not at their meetings). This is simply for the purposes of accuracy to the source material, as Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel and Saruman are the only people who were *definitely* members.

Of course, the location of Rhosgobel is close enough to Dol Guldur to suggest that Radagast would almost certainly have been involved in the attack, and undoubtedly he'll be there (and might even die).

"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 4 2012, 5:16pm


Views: 1589
Well, yes....

That's true. But I'd just like to see the Hall of Fire in operation. Maybe if someone else were to do the reciting....?


HiddenSpring
Lorien

Sep 4 2012, 5:24pm


Views: 1580
Some interesting tidbits

The Goblin King as the big Film 1 baddy --- love this!

Looks like the Goblintown scenes will be given the Moria treatment; they definitely won't be as short as in the book.

Radagast as the link between Bilbo's and Gandalf's storylines is an interesting idea.

The Necromancer will be in all three films.... so maybe The Battle of Dol Guldur will be at the beginning of film 3?

And confirmation that we will have three lead characters - Bilbo, Gandalf and Thorin.


There&ThereAgain
Rohan


Sep 4 2012, 5:26pm


Views: 1567
i kind of like that

the hair-brushing scene from the trailer could play into this idea.

I mean were we ever supposed to get into the psychological headspace of Gandalf? Did Tolkien even care to?

"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien

"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 4 2012, 5:29pm


Views: 1564
What I would really like

Would be for it to happen in the return to Rivendell, in the third film.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 4 2012, 5:31pm


Views: 1599
Agreed

He's still an uber-prosaic hobbit at that time.

Makes me wonder if PJ and company really understand the material...


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 4 2012, 5:35pm


Views: 1585
Let's not jump to conclusions

As Earl points out, mostly likely this snippet is based on some description of Lindir from his role in LOTR.

Although there are plenty of other examples that we can point that show either a lack of understanding of the material, or at least a willingness to deviate from the material (e.g., Aragorn beheading the MoS).

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 4 2012, 5:56pm


Views: 1487
Oh yes - that really would be good

It would delight me if the ending could be as gentle and measured as it is in the book. It would round things off nicely.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 4 2012, 6:05pm


Views: 856
To save having 4 of my threads on one page, I'll put this here

You can get a free Hobbit posted with this month's Total film magazine.

This deserves to be seen, but not another thread! Cool


mandel
Rivendell


Sep 4 2012, 6:06pm


Views: 817
Gandalf's headspace

I think the materials are in Tolkien for getting a better view of Gandalf's character development. My take is that Tolkien wanted to make Gandalf the bedrock early in LOTR, with Aragorn taking up some of the slack later on - in brief moments of hesitation and doubt from Gandalf (e.g. The Last Debate), Aragorn takes up the mantle as leader and moves things forward. (This is one of the things I thought PJ got absolutely perfect in his films).

At the beginning of TH, we're seeing a Gandalf who hasn't yet had to face the immediate prospect of his great task in Middle-Earth - the defeat of Sauron. He has the great wisdom to see in Hobbits much more than anyone else can. But he's still quite a bit impatient with Bilbo, as with the Dwarves. He still has the sense of superiority of a Maiar sent to dwell among mortals. But by the time of LOTR, he has the wisdom to know that Hobbits have a kind of strength even he lacks.

And, I'm guessing this change of heart happens during the course of events in TH. Bilbo doesn't just prove himself to be courageous, but almost completely unselfish. His self-centered thoughts always seem to be quite simple: he doesn't want treasure, or political power, or even great honor (though he takes pleasure in the dwarves' admiration); instead, he just wants the warmth of Bag End, a meal and pipe by the fire. I'd like to see Gandalf come to this realization in TH films, along with the realization of his great task...


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Sep 4 2012, 6:06pm


Views: 863
One question

Thank you, all of that was very interesting (and promising!)

One question: what does Legolas and Thranduil sparring actually mean? Are they play fighting?

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 4 2012, 6:10pm


Views: 808
I thought spar meant "to practice fighting"? /

 


FlyingSerkis
Rivendell

Sep 4 2012, 6:12pm


Views: 784
I'd love to see that character development in the films

Very interesting look into Gandalf's thoughts and character that I hadn't really considered before. Smile


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Sep 4 2012, 6:19pm


Views: 826
So I assumed

But I've learned to not to trust my assumptions when communicating in a foreign language... bad things may ensue! Laugh

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


dave_lf
Gondor

Sep 4 2012, 6:33pm


Views: 833
Sparring

That is the literal meaning, but I (strongly) suspect they are talking about verbal sparring here. Based on other comments that have been made, the two will be at odds over the elves' role in the battle.


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 4 2012, 6:35pm


Views: 802
It's ok

I'm English and don't know what it entirely means Wink


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Sep 4 2012, 6:48pm


Views: 771
I hope they don't change Thranduil's characterization

If they make Thranduil more antagonistic than he already is by removing his two truly honorable moments (helping the Men of Lake Town and being opposed to the idea of waging a war over gold) just to let Legolas argue against him and steal the sympathy points for himself..... I'll... I'll... I don't even know what I'll do. It'll be all Denethor again. A character supposed to be complicated and antiheroic turned into a complete douche because apparently the audience can't get the hint to feel sympathy for his son otherwise. Mad

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


mandel
Rivendell


Sep 4 2012, 6:59pm


Views: 764
Thranduil

Well, it's possible to strike a balance here: maybe Thranduil's initial reactions are hostile (as they are in the book), and Legolas is the one who softens his heart a bit...


DarkJackal
Rohan


Sep 4 2012, 7:27pm


Views: 712
A free Hobbit?

Alright, I followed the link, but I can't seem to find the free Hobbit that you promised! Not fair, I want my own little quest monkey!

Edit: Oh I see, a free Hobbit poster, not an actual hobbit posted in the mail...


(This post was edited by DarkJackal on Sep 4 2012, 7:29pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 4 2012, 7:29pm


Views: 690
Haha! A free Hobbit would be a lot better than a poster wouldn't it!

Blasted typo! Wink


Fardragon
Rohan

Sep 4 2012, 7:42pm


Views: 704
I think the comparable character

Is Faramir. Make him initially hostile enough to be a real threat, but have him evolve into an ally.

A Far Dragon is the best kind...


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Sep 4 2012, 9:10pm


Views: 625
I keep forgeting . . .

. . . Olet Suomen.
Glad I checked the translator . . . Olet Suomen Olet Suomen Olet Suomen Olet Suomen


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the Road has gone
And I must follow, if I can

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Sep 4 2012, 9:16pm


Views: 619
What was that link supposed to be . . .

. . . 'cause all I got was stuff on Looper . . . even checking out all 10 article teasers showed nothing of the Hobbit. Evil


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the Road has gone
And I must follow, if I can

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 4 2012, 9:20pm


Views: 618
Sorry TomthePilgrim!

Should have made it clearer - it's in the text:


Quote

Issue 198 is on-sale now and comes with four incredible free posters, featuring Man Of Steel, The Hobbit, Skyfall, and Django Unchained.



TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Sep 4 2012, 9:25pm


Views: 602
Ohhhhhhhh . . . . . . . . .

. . . well, I was lookin' at the pictures, not readin' all them pesky words . . .

Sorry. Blush



The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the Road has gone
And I must follow, if I can

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Sep 4 2012, 10:22pm


Views: 575
"Olet suomalainen" ;) //

 

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Ruinwen
Rivendell


Sep 4 2012, 11:12pm


Views: 583
Fathers and sons


Quote

Quote

We'll see Legolas and his father Thranduil spar.



Guh....I think I might need to take this image to Estrogen Island.CrazyBlush


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Sep 4 2012, 11:18pm


Views: 545
Ei . . .

. . . American, ancestors from Ireland and Denmark.
I have a englanti-soumi dictionary. At one point, after finding out that Prof. Tolkien had read the Kalevala, I tried to read a finnish copy using the dictionary . . . and fail utterly.
I now own the Oxford World's Classics version . . . in English!


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began
Now far ahead the Road has gone
And I must follow, if I can

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 5 2012, 12:00am


Views: 540
Not jumping anywhere

Just wondering...Wink


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 5 2012, 12:12am


Views: 508
Fair enough

But it doesn't seem consistent to me with the filmmakers MO for them to do this. They are all about adding additional character arcs, not taking them away!

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 5 2012, 12:24am


Views: 512
True

Though I wonder if PJ and company understand that part of Bilbo's growth involves a growing appreciation for the more poetic aspects of existence.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 5 2012, 2:04am


Views: 506
It's explicitly stated - no reading in required

I know that I give the filmmakers more credit than you do (despite my own more than quibbles) but I think they can pick up on something that is explicitly stated in the text.


Quote

Coming to a rise he could see his own Hill in the distance, and he stopped suddenly and said:

Roads go ever ever on,
Over rock and under tree,
By caves where never sun has shone,
By streams that never find the sea;

Over snow by winter sown,
And through the merry flowers of June,
Over grass and over stone,
And under mountains in the moon.

Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star,
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.

Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.

Gandalf looked at him. "My dear Bilbo!" he said. "Something is the matter with you! You are not the hobbit that you were."


'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Sep 5 2012, 4:15am


Views: 478
Well, I hope you are right

And they include the "poetry reading" on his journey home.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Sep 5 2012, 1:17pm


Views: 351
I hope so too

Although, I'm not going to get my hopes up to high. Although they did have Frodo say to Sam "Frodo wouldn't have gotten very far without Sam" which pleasantly surprised me. And Arwen at Aragorn's grave, which shocked me.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 5 2012, 3:53pm


Views: 350
The pictures were spectacular//

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 5 2012, 3:56pm


Views: 348
Did you get to see them sinister71?!

Very jealous. I would ask for you to give us some hints, but I suspect TORn will block you if you tell us Wink


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Sep 5 2012, 3:59pm


Views: 332
yep

I was there and had a great time meeting everyone from TORn. I will just say the pictures they showed were awsome to say the least.


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Sep 5 2012, 4:00pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 5 2012, 4:09pm


Views: 321
That's great news!

Hope they are released soon Smile


Ardamírë
Valinor


Sep 5 2012, 4:43pm


Views: 330
I hope they're released soon!//

 

"...and his first memory of Middle-earth was the green stone above her breast, as she sang above his cradle while Gondolin was still in flower."


Snaga
Lorien


Sep 5 2012, 7:20pm


Views: 290
Could be 'contemporary' to the time of FOTR

They could be doing a kind of overlap or 'flash forward' scene to the time when Bilbo has retired to Rivendel and Frodo has just made it there with the ring. Maybe part of of the content or narrative portion between he and Frodo is done there and then. This be a clever little tie in, sort of like they did with a couple of the Jason Bourne films.

This is just wild specualtion of course. The little we saw of Elijah Wood on the vblogs make it pretty clear that at least part of his appearance in these films will happen in the Shire.

"Alas for Boromir! It was too sore a trial!"

-Faramir


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 7 2012, 9:30pm


Views: 271
I got my free poster today

It's only small, probably A3 size, but well worth the £3.99! Cool

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