The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Brown Wizard Revealed! (Major spoilers following)



Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Aug 21 2012, 7:48pm


Views: 4642
The Brown Wizard Revealed! (Major spoilers following)

Since I can't see that this topic has been discussed yet, we have just been given our first glimpse of Radagast in the Latest News on the Hobbit section of the site.

Now that we can see Radagast for the first (proper) time, what does everyone think about his appearance?

I for one think he looks brilliant, though doubtless some of you will disagree.

"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.


Flame of Udun
Rivendell

Aug 21 2012, 7:53pm


Views: 2516
It already has been

Just a few hours late! Here is the link of the thread: http://newboards.theonering.net/...;;page=unread#unread


emre43
Rohan

Aug 21 2012, 7:55pm


Views: 2353
I really like his look

I was expecting a lot worse and received a lot better.


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Aug 21 2012, 7:55pm


Views: 2316
Ok-I hadn't realised that. Sorry.

Blush

"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 21 2012, 7:58pm


Views: 2284
I really like it!

And he has a very vagrant feel to him - which he should. Hoping for a clearer picture soon though. Still want to see all the intricate details. Smile


Flame of Udun
Rivendell


Aug 21 2012, 7:58pm


Views: 2297
The other thread's title isn't too specific

so I can see why you thought that Smile


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 21 2012, 8:24pm


Views: 2261
No, this thread is a good idea . . .

. . . as the other was technically about the posting of all of the pictures, and this one is specifically about Radigast . . . Raddy deserves his own thread!
I love Raddy!

However . . . . . . . . .

I'm not loving what I'm seeing. (OW . . . stop yelling at me!)
1) in the picture, Radigast is a little undefined. It hard to clearnly see too much . . .
2) why do he and Bofur have the same style of hat?
3) The look of the staff doesn't surprise me . . . a John Howe drawing from a while back shows the 5 Istari, and Gandalf and Radigast had similar-looking staves.
4) All in all, he has a bit of a mouse like-appearance.

Part of this is probably due to my vision of Radigast, which has always been a bit . . . druid-like (or, druish)(that was for you, Mel!).
I have a friend who has a plethera of animals . . . cats, snakes, birds, ferrets, etc.. He's an old hippie . . . big beard, relatively unkempt hair, big belly. Put him in robes and he would be a neo-druid. For some reason, when I think of Raddy, I think of my friend Kent.

Honestly, to me, Radigast looks like he just crawled out of a cardboard box to go dig thru dumpsters.

OK . . . I'm done . . . proceed to pull out large sticks with which to beat me with. Evil



The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


Tim
Tol Eressea


Aug 21 2012, 8:29pm


Views: 2252
Is there a description of Radagast anywhere in the books?

Just curious if you're just not happy with a mental picture you've conjured up or with something you're basing out of the texts.

And I promise I have no sticks. Laugh

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.


Flame of Udun
Rivendell


Aug 21 2012, 8:35pm


Views: 2310
In the Council of Elrond

Gandalf talks about what Radagast does (master of shapes and has much lore of herbs and beasts) to the rest of the Council but other than that there is nothing else describing him. Anything listed in the unfinished tales? I dont have that book with me.

"'Ai! ai!' wailed Legolas. 'A Balrog! A Balrog is come!' Gimli stared with wide eyes. 'Durin's Bane!' he cried, and letting his axe fall he covered his face. 'A Balrog,' muttered Gandalf. 'Now I understand. What an evil fortune! And I am already weary.''


MatthewJer18
Rohan

Aug 21 2012, 8:41pm


Views: 2251
Radagast's hat doesn't look that similar to Bofur's, IMO.

It also appears to be much larger than suggested, as it extends up out of the shot.

All in all, I'm very happy with Radagast's appearance. I always imagined him more vagrant-like.


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Aug 21 2012, 8:45pm


Views: 2207
Don't worry, we don't bite, and we bark very little

I see exactly where you are coming from with your point-I also imagine Radagast as a druidic type character when I read the books.

However, whilst I did not approve at first of Radagast's supposed appearance, I realized that I could have seen this coming, because of both The Hobbit's lighter nature and the fact that McCoy is typically a comedy actor. I am still very glad that they have taken the time to put him into the films at all, and am even more happy about the fact that he could be a major character, whether in the book or not. So, to be truthful, I am embracing whatever Radagast they throw at us. Plus I'm sure that McCoy will do a fine job of bringing him to life (without the spoons, please).

"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 21 2012, 8:45pm


Views: 2222
No sticks . . . good . . .

. . . as I've taken Kendo, and I'm a certified riot and collapsable baton instructor. Wink I fight with sticks for fun . . .

Description of Raddy . . . hmmmmmmm . . . pulling out my "Complete Guide to Middle Earth" so that I don't miss anything.
1) I've been spelling his name wrong . . . Radagast! . . . OY!
2) In the LOTR, Gandalf says he had been riding a horse when he met him, and that he was, 'master of shapes and changes of hue:" Interesting . . .
3) No description in the Hobbit (from my memory . . . I didn't check)
4) looking for my copy of the Simarillion as we speak . . . . . . . . .


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 21 2012, 9:13pm


Views: 2371
Radagast's staff

It will be interesting to see his staff fully. It looks very similar to Gandalf's ... Perhaps they're mates Unsure

Wild speculation ... after Radagast's death, Gandalf takes up Radagast's staff, thus explaining the difference between TH and LOTR Wink


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 21 2012, 9:18pm


Views: 2349
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Radagast does not die . . . he does not.
and if he does, I may (literally) walk out of the theatre.


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 21 2012, 9:19pm


Views: 2236
I bet

You'll just figuratively walk out of the theatre. Smile


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Aug 21 2012, 9:19pm


Views: 2134
I was speculating the very same thing!

And was thinking of posting a thread about it. Indeed, the resemblance between the two staves is uncanny. Gandalf may want to take the staff to remember his old friend Raddy, which would add a small amount of emotion to the scene in which it is taken from him (i.e. the duel in LOTR)

Glad to see I wasn't the only one thinking this!

"Radagast is, of course, a worthy wizard, a master of shapes and changes of hue, and he has much lore of herbs and beasts, and birds are especially his friends."-Gandalf, The Lord of the Rings.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 21 2012, 9:21pm


Views: 2160
Make sure you're sitting on an end seat

I don't want you climbing over me when it happens Wink


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 21 2012, 9:22pm


Views: 2142
There's a very brief shot of someone holding two brown staffs (staves?) in the latest vlog

They are so alike, it certainly suggests something.


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 21 2012, 9:25pm


Views: 2123
. . . hard to say . . . NT

 


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell


Aug 21 2012, 9:25pm


Views: 2138
I'm suretat you are aware of this, but just in case

Have you noticed that Gandalf's first staff has a holder for his pipe? So he can carry his pipe in the staff.


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell


Aug 21 2012, 9:26pm


Views: 2101
In fotr that is

 


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 21 2012, 9:29pm


Views: 2097
Can't find my copy of the Simarillion.

Old copy . . . older than some of the Folk of TORN . . . should be at the right end of the Tolkien next to the Jules Verne . . . I had it out a while ago . . .


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 21 2012, 9:31pm


Views: 2135
Search or go to"Rhosgobel..I'm so excited!"

Almost. 1400 views. and..now buried. Under
the " Flotsum&Jetsum "
of this front
Forum Page..there. ARE a few Easter Eggs( Hint..Hint?)

Bomby hid there. Everyone had Tons of Fun
posting There.
If you can't Trust Bomby..
Whom could you...


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 21 2012, 9:44pm


Views: 2083
always trust Bomby

I remember that thread . . .


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


sycorax82
Rohan

Aug 21 2012, 9:44pm


Views: 2142
If he doesn't die, explain the zero mention of him in the LOTR films

Unless we see him leaving Middle-earth or something like that, I'm thinking he will meet a sticky end at the hands of, possibly, the Necromancer.


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 21 2012, 9:51pm


Views: 1275
Standard PJ and Co.

"How else can we cut down on the massive number of characters in these books?"
"We don't need Radagast . . . Gandalf can talk to a moth, the moth can talk to eagle and the eagle can rescue Gandalf . . ."

SERIOUSLY? A moth travels hundreds of miles to the north to get Gwaihir for Gandalf? THHHHTTT! The moth would have got et'n . . .

Sorry . . . an old wound from the Trilogy . . . Evil


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 21 2012, 9:52pm


Views: 1245
He doesn't have to die

In the books Radagast didn't want to be involved with the War of the Ring. A brief mention could easily explain that Radagast disappeared after the events of Dol Guldur. No more explanation required.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 21 2012, 9:57pm


Views: 1244
Where's the hundred of miles from?

Surely GwaIhir isn't implied to be that far away?

LR


TheSexyBeard
Lorien

Aug 21 2012, 10:09pm


Views: 1226
More Wizardy than I imagined!

Based of the little information we had about Radagast, I was a bit anxious about his design but I am happy to admit that I think he looks a lot better than I had originally imagined. I like his almost hermit like, ragged aperance and his Russian looking hat. From some of the early descriptions we got I assumed he'd be wearing some kind of bucket hat. Tongue

I look forward to seeing some better images.


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 21 2012, 10:10pm


Views: 1231
Doesn't have to be . . .

. . . could be thousands.

We know that the eagles have been seen in the area of the Misty Mountains near the Carrock . . . this is hundreds of miles north of Isengard.
And, to answer your obvious next question, sure, Gwaihir could have been much closer . . . or, much farther away. Basically, it was a change from the book to the movie that I didn't see the need for, and I could not suspend the logical portion of my mind to believe that it was a likely scenario.


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 21 2012, 10:18pm


Views: 1240
Quint's mention of the likeness of Radagast to St. Assisi must've reffered to his affinity to animals

rather than his appearance. I don't know why, but that's what I presumed.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 21 2012, 10:23pm


Views: 1253
Well up to you of course

If it isn't implied/ stated I suppose I would tend towards filling in the details such that it makes sense.

Otherwise one could make up illogical off screen/ page issues for almost everything.

LR


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 21 2012, 10:33pm


Views: 1213
Does it need any explanation?

After all, we don't see the entire population of Middle Earth in the LotR films; presumably we just assume he's having tea with Tom and Goldberry, or showing the Dunedain how to tame squirrels or something... Wink


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 21 2012, 10:37pm


Views: 1164
Now that I would enjoy . . .

Imagine. Tea with Tom, Goldberry and Radagast . . . . . . . . .


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


DesiringDragons
Lorien


Aug 21 2012, 11:07pm


Views: 1175
I shall walk out with you.

Raddy can't die! THE MAN LIKES BUNNIES.

I mean wizard. That is is change I would not like at all. Unsure


(This post was edited by DesiringDragons on Aug 21 2012, 11:17pm)


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 21 2012, 11:16pm


Views: 1172
Solidarity, brother!

 


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


Plurmo
Rohan

Aug 21 2012, 11:18pm


Views: 1120
Not exactly Assisi, more like the Flying Nun. //

 


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 21 2012, 11:22pm


Views: 1149
HA!

The hat . . . Brilliant! Laugh


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


Tim
Tol Eressea


Aug 21 2012, 11:39pm


Views: 1177
Radagast isn't going to die, but even if he did...

... he's a Maia spirit which means he'll just revert to that form and go in for a debrief (or spanking if naughty like Saruman) from Ilúvatar.

Laugh

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.


DesiringDragons
Lorien


Aug 21 2012, 11:41pm


Views: 1147
Thanks, good point!

...being reminded of that actually made me feel better.

(I keep wanting to add 'O Tim'...sorry.)


Tim
Tol Eressea


Aug 21 2012, 11:45pm


Views: 1135
Heh heh heh


In Reply To
...being reminded of that actually made me feel better.

(I keep wanting to add 'O Tim'...sorry.)


You can add "O Tim" if you want, that's perfect! Laugh

King Arthur: You know much that is hidden oh Tim.

Tim: Quite.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 22 2012, 12:14am


Views: 1172
As to his hat..seems like it has Ears..and it could have a Life

of its own..Maybe these Ears twitch like a CAT or a Horse have the
Ability to focus sound?
Also my Feeling is he can never be Killed since if an Arrow
pierced him..he would split into a hundred small animals
MOTHS, SPARROWS, BUTERFLYS, Ferrets..etcetera.

I do think he may have other small ones living in his clothes.
Like any Magician ...would have a Pigeon up his Sleeve.

If he makes it into the Bot5A..he may be one of the Great Eagles and we only see him Transform back after the Conflict ends.
During LOTR..I feel he declared his territory to the Northern. War..giving Gandalf the Southern Regions.
How do you like Them Ideas?
Bomby


JDRobinson
Registered User

Aug 22 2012, 12:52am


Views: 1189
Radagast may die.....

I did some comparison with a picture of Gandalf from Fellowship with the image of Radagast and the two staves look almost identical in terms of their shape and "root structure on the tip". The staff I am referring to with Gandalf is the "pre-Saruman" encounter. The best pic is with Gandalf outside (of Orthanc) standing with his staff. I don't know. To me, the bottom half looks exactly the same as Radagast's in the calendar picture.


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 22 2012, 12:53am


Views: 1088
ears . . . hmmmm . . . maybe.

Mouse ears (see my previous post, this thread)

Moths . . . hundreds and hundreds of moths

Small things . . . hmmmmm . . . lice? fleas?

BO5A . . . he won't be at BO5A . . . he'll be tired from Dol Guldur, and he'll need a nap

well, the north is the best . . . stated by someone from WA . . . in the Great NORTHwest

K . . . I'm done now.
Thanx for the opportunity, Bomby Wink


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


dave_lf
Gondor

Aug 22 2012, 2:19am


Views: 1105
He could even hand Gandalf his staff on the way out the door

Though if he's as popular as it sounds like he's expected to me, the audience may prefer a dead guy to a quitter.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Aug 22 2012, 3:21am


Views: 1054
love his look!

a little jack sparrowish


From the bottom of the Long-Lake a dragon shall be possessed...green lights glowing out of the deep waters shall be seen where the dragon fell...reanimated shall be Smaug that was killed...and the Dark Lord will fly over Middle-Earth unopposed...raining fire down upon his enemies...


weaver
Half-elven

Aug 22 2012, 3:29am


Views: 1055
ha! I thought a little Davy Jonesish...

...but I have pretty bad eyesight! He could look like one of my kids for all I know! :)

Weaver




Bombadil
Half-elven


Aug 22 2012, 3:33am


Views: 1082
Well since he Izzz. the Master of Animals he probably knows..

Warg-Speak? So he tells the Wargs... this
"This a no no.
Bad Warg?
YOU are Not happy
with your OrcRider, are you?
Adandon this mission ..Sick on your Rider..
They aren't Gunna leave Any of
yousGuys any
Bones to Jaw on?
Are they?

Thus Raddy's has the Wargs Revolt ?
on their Revoltin' Riders helping
to turn the Tide
of Bot5A..?

Afterwargs? These domestigated Wargs
All sit around Raddy as. He heals their
Warg-War-Wounds?

( Try to say That..fast?)

Jus' another BombasticBombyPost...


droidsocket
Lorien

Aug 22 2012, 4:19am


Views: 1004
That is what I thought

Davy Jones. But I like him regardless. He looks like a wizard. Good enough for me.


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Aug 22 2012, 7:02am


Views: 989
he is the moth

or else yes, it wouldn't make much sense why he would stay neutral during the events of LOTR's.


From the bottom of the Long-Lake a dragon shall be possessed...green lights glowing out of the deep waters shall be seen where the dragon fell...reanimated shall be Smaug that was killed...and the Dark Lord will fly over Middle-Earth unopposed...raining fire down upon his enemies...


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Aug 22 2012, 7:04am


Views: 1142
cant see davy jones but the hat is

jack sparrowish...and didn't old davy j. have a large tentacle beard??


From the bottom of the Long-Lake a dragon shall be possessed...green lights glowing out of the deep waters shall be seen where the dragon fell...reanimated shall be Smaug that was killed...and the Dark Lord will fly over Middle-Earth unopposed...raining fire down upon his enemies...


emre43
Rohan

Aug 22 2012, 8:16am


Views: 1140
Reminds me of Odin

Sorry, don't know how to attach pics, but here is a link with an image fo Odin:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/..._the_Wanderer%29.jpg


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 9:03am


Views: 1115
He'll turn into the moth /

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 9:04am


Views: 1105
Radagast can't be Odin

Gandalf was based on Odin Laugh


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 9:16am


Views: 1144
And there is a blue stone in Radagast's staff!

Hmmm ...


emre43
Rohan

Aug 22 2012, 10:11am


Views: 1089
He wasn't...

...Gandalf was based on this:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/...33/Der_Berggeist.jpg

It is Der Berggeist by Joseph Madlener.

In Reply To
Gandalf was based on Odin Laugh



(This post was edited by emre43 on Aug 22 2012, 10:12am)


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 1:43pm


Views: 1052
Yes he was

See my thread

Smile


Gimli1252
Bree


Aug 22 2012, 2:28pm


Views: 1111
I think the two staves are one and the same ...

http://www.framecaplib.com/...j=0x0000000000001000

The staves have the same pattern...
So Gadalf has Radagast's staff for sure, now the point is how he gets it from him??
Perhaps Radagast gave it to him as a gift or something like that...
Definitely i don't think Radagast will die in the films, but if he dies because the audience will wonder:''where was he in Lotr?'', then the decision to kill him it's pretty lame ... I mean he is not in Lotr because:
1) Lotr came before the Hobbit (i'm referring to movies and only) and
2) PJ & Co forgot to include him or they cut him out like Tom B.

''There is one dwarf yet in Moria, who still draws breath''


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 2:33pm


Views: 1049
I don't think the only reason to kill him off is because he wasn't in the trilogy

Scouts were sent to find Radagast in Rhosgobel and found the he was missing. Tolkien may have intended him to have died/been killed.

In my opinion, Radagast dieing during the Battle of Dol Guldur wouldn't be that outlandish.


burgahobbit
Rohan


Aug 22 2012, 2:36pm


Views: 1022
I don't think so

Gandalf's staff in the trailer (in the Shire scenes) is identical to his staff in FOTR save for the fact that it's closed. In FOTR it has "blossomed" and then it's purpose has been fulfilled. Gandalf becomes Gandalf the White and the brown staff has served it's purpose. Radagast staff is similar because he is the brown wizard, and what other color of staff would the brown wizard have, a grey one? Radagast is a lover of nature so his staff would be rather like a stick instead of a carved straight staff like Saruman's. I think they should have made Raddy's staff twisted and irregular to make it stand out, but the fact that they did not do so does not mean that it is the same as Gandalf's.


dave_lf
Gondor

Aug 22 2012, 2:37pm


Views: 1060
The answer is in the books

Radagast gave up his mission in order to spend more time with his animals. They could kill him, or turn him into a moth, or just make the moth his servant and retcon him into LotR that way, but they don't need to.


Gimli1252
Bree


Aug 22 2012, 2:42pm


Views: 1037
Didn't know about that....

You know where can i find this in the books...???

''There is one dwarf yet in Moria, who still draws breath''


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 3:33pm


Views: 1076
Inspirations for Gandalf

What makes you think that Tolkien couldn't have had multiple inspirations for Gandalf? Odin, the Berrgeist, Merlin. It's all good.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 3:35pm


Views: 1037
Radagast doesn't die...

He lives quietly into the Fourth Age and beyond. Eventually he becomes known by another name. A Wizard and advisor who loves animals and is an expert shape-changer -- Merlin.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 3:44pm


Views: 1028
That's a wonderful idea! /

 


dave_lf
Gondor

Aug 22 2012, 3:44pm


Views: 1028
Radagast's fate in the books

Apparently I am wrong about that--it seems that Radagast's withdrawl from the world is only mentioned in Tolkien's letters, and of course the filmmakers don't have the rights to those. The last we hear about him in LotR is at Rivendell when scouts are sent to Rhosgobel looking for him, but he's not at home. So I guess the writers will have to make something up.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 3:45pm


Views: 1031
Since my books are packed away at the moment I can't give you page numbers

But I believe it's somewhere in the Council of Elrond chapter.


Jettorex
Lorien


Aug 22 2012, 4:48pm


Views: 1017
Radagast wont literally die

But I think his exit will be at the conlusion of the attack on Dol Guldor. It will be made clear to the audience that his part in the film is over, at least in wizard form. I am sure there will be a hint that he will continue to help through the animals and/or that he will help in animal form (moth, thrush etc).


- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."


My Book---> www.amazon.com/Popcornmaker


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Aug 22 2012, 5:24pm


Views: 995
I hope Radagast doesn't die -


Quote
Wild speculation ... after Radagast's death, Gandalf takes up Radagast's staff, thus explaining the difference between TH and LOTR


- but this could be what led to Saruman's claim that Gandalf wanted the 'staves of the Five Wizards'.


Gimli1252
Bree


Aug 22 2012, 8:16pm


Views: 959
Thanks DanielLB...

I'm reading Fotr again and yesterday finished part I, so i'm almost there...

''There is one dwarf yet in Moria, who still draws breath''


FiliSonOfDis
Rivendell

Aug 22 2012, 8:54pm


Views: 951
What if...

Gandalfs staff is broken during a battle or some event in these movies and Radagast gives Gandalf his staff at the end and "resigns" from his wizardly duties in favor of simply existing with his animals.

It would explain why he's not around in LOTR and it would be a good emotional scene on different levels, showing how the white councils "list of allies" is already growing thin.


Gimli1252
Bree


Aug 22 2012, 9:05pm


Views: 923
I like your idea, it sounds plausible...//

 

''There is one dwarf yet in Moria, who still draws breath''


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 9:45pm


Views: 944
Yup, I'd be more than happy with that.

Whether Radagast dies or decides to leave Rhosgobel, I think it's going to be an excellent "end" for him.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 22 2012, 9:52pm


Views: 918
maybe they should just leave it a mystery...

kind of like the way Tolkien wrote it Wink


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 9:57pm


Views: 920
Yes, that would be fine, if they had done that in the first place (in FOTR)

Having Radagast in The Hobbit kind of messes that up. They can't just have him ride off back to Rhosgobel on his bunny-sled, never to be mentioned again. The audience wouldn't be satisfied, and neither would I.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 10:01pm


Views: 956
I don't think I understand this

In principle, how is that any different from his exit halfway through FOTR and failure to turn up in the rest of the LOTR story?

LR


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 10:07pm


Views: 982
I was assuming that Radagast simply went back to his home

rather than an explicit statement of him refusing to help ever again. If that's the case, then it would be fine. But if he just goes home and is never mentioned in the LOTR trilogy, then would seem very out of place. Everyone will be asking where he is.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 10:11pm


Views: 969
Nope - maybe it's me

But why isn't this a question people are asking themselves when reading the latter two and half books of LOTR?
And if it isn't a question there...why would it be here?

LR


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 10:13pm


Views: 999
Because it is explained! He's missing!

All I'm saying is that if Radagast is shown happily returning home, rather than a) refusing to ever help again, b) die or c) go missing, then it will look odd.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 10:22pm


Views: 1042
Well he's out when the scouts call

I don't know if that constitutes missing! I'm often not at home when the postman calls but I'm not sure that's an indication that I've gone missing.

Surely it's the same for Beorn? And Dain?

LR


(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Aug 22 2012, 10:25pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 10:27pm


Views: 950
You miss the postman because you go shopping, or go to work.

Since Radagast wasn't there, and no-one had any indication of where he was, that's missing in my books.

He hadn't gone to the off licence to get some fags. He wasn't there, couldn't be found (either didn't want to be, or captured), and thus, missing.

And Beorn and Dain are very different. Beorn had died before the War of the Ring, and Dain was busy defending Erebor.


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 22 2012, 10:29pm)


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 10:38pm


Views: 949
Well that's one reading

but all it actually says is "Radagast was not there". It doesn't say that he couldn't be found. It doesn't actually say anyone looked for him. I don't know about shops or fags but I would imagine him out walking and communing with nature rather a lot (rather than sitting in waiting for the doorbell perhaps).

And I know where Beorn and Dain were but I thought the thesis was that characters who appear in TH will cause confusion if absent from LOTR. So I was checking if you thought specific sick-notes would be needed for these guys as well?

LR


(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Aug 22 2012, 10:42pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 22 2012, 10:43pm


Views: 925
they could play it off as something I am sure

one sentence of dialogue could take care of anything they come up with either way Wink. but according to what Tolkien wrote they went to get his help and he was gone. If they play him off as a nomad and someone who could just wander off at anytime it would work fine. Gandalf shows up and he's simply gone, Gandalf tosses it up to he's out wandering.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 10:47pm


Views: 1003
They're pretty rubbish scouts if they just knocked on his door

and walked away if no-one answered. I'm sure more happened than what was written. If Elrond had sent scouts to find Radagast, then I'm sure they looked! For all purposes, Radagast was missing., because we don't know where he is. Whether he was actually "missing" or not is a different matter. He may have not wanted to be found.

No, not all characters need a sick note. Because we know where they are. I'm simply saying he cannot happily leave whoever/wherever, and live happily ever after in Rhosgobel.

But anyway, I'm not sure you're ever going to get my point. I don't know whether that is because of my point, or that I'm not explaining it good enough ....


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 22 2012, 10:49pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


Aug 22 2012, 10:50pm


Views: 935
I don't recall them saying he "couldn't be found."

Only that he "wasn't there."

Just because he's not actively involved in the human affairs, it doesn't mean he didn't have other duties and interests. Maybe he was out making the rounds of his animal friends, to get news, or to see if any of them needed care.

Unless he's under house arrest, I don't see why him not being there implies that something is wrong.

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 10:51pm


Views: 949
His house doesn't look like he's a nomad /

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 10:54pm


Views: 938
That's if you simply read the text as it is on the page

You really think the scouts turned up, knocked on his door, then walked away? I doubt it - they would have searched and looked for him, try to find any indications where he was, and stayed more than 5 minutes to see if he showed up. Elrond sent scouts to find him.

He's missing because no-one (apart from himself) knows where he is. Whether he was actually missing or not is a different matter. For all purposes of the story, he wasn't there, and therefore missing!


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 10:59pm


Views: 919
Well don't worry

It's the purpose of the board to talk after all!

But I also don't think Elrond sent scouts to find Radagast, as you put it. Why do you think that? The scouts were sent in every direction to seek for signs of the enemy's forces (especially the Nazgul).

I know that book readers know where Dain/ Beorn were, but film-only viewers won't, so I'm interested that you don't think that would be a problem but you do think Radagast would.

LR


(This post was edited by Lacrimae Rerum on Aug 22 2012, 10:59pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 22 2012, 10:59pm


Views: 916
I guess I'm under the assumption

that he got tired of dealing with men and elves and dwarves, other wizards and society in general and just picked up and went away. Rather being alone with nature and the animals. Who knows Maybe to the same place the Blue wizards went. But I think he just would rather have been alone with his animals and not deal with others of the humanoid persuasion. I'm sure he could have been found if he wanted to be Wink


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Aug 22 2012, 11:01pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:03pm


Views: 952
That's why epilogues can be good things

And another reason why they should have had Gandalf explain what had happened in The Return of the King.

You're right that Elrond hadn't sent the scouts to specifically find Radagast, my mistake. But my point still stands.

If I go to someone's house, and they are not in, leave no indication where they are, I cannot contact them or find them, and don't show up while I am there, then from my point of view, they are missing.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:06pm


Views: 940
I'm not disagreeing with this

Like you say, he needs an "end", and not just to dissapear off screen.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 11:09pm


Views: 907
Well I kind of think

That my original point was it probably doesn't need an epilogue as it doesn't cause anyone a great worry in the book. He plays a part but it's finite.

I'm not quite sure what to say to your second bit! Missing like you'd call the police missing? If you called round unexpectedly and they weren't in (and hadn't left a note on the door saying where they were) ?

LR


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 22 2012, 11:15pm


Views: 973
Not to mention Väinämöinen . . .

Prof. Tolkien had studied the Kalavala . . . some believe he was another influence on Gandalf, or maybe Saruman, or both.


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:16pm


Views: 938
The general audience probably won't care at all what happens to Radagast, Beorn or Dain.

And obviously, I wouldn't call the police. Mainly because I wouldn't turn up unexpectedly (without any prior notice), and they'd probably be down that off licence buying fags.

But from the person's point of you, whether it is me, you, the Queen of Sheba, or the Elven scouts, if they cannot find the person they are looking for, then from that person's point of view, they are presumed missing. The person may in fact not be missing - they may be on holiday, out for a walk, buying fags, kidnapped, dead, hiding and/or somewhere else, but for the person on the doorstep they do not know this.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:16pm


Views: 933
Actually, it does say that Radagast was sought for...


In Reply To
but all it actually says is "Radagast was not there". It doesn't say that he couldn't be found. It doesn't actually say anyone looked for him. I don't know about shops or fags but I would imagine him out walking and communing with nature rather a lot (rather than sitting in waiting for the doorbell perhaps).

LR



Several scouts from Rivendell had gone specifically seeking after Radagast:


Quote

Many had gone east and south; and some of these had crossed the Mountains and entered Mirkwood, while others had climbed the pass at the source of the Gladden River, and had come down into Wilderland and over the Gladden Fields and so at length had reached the old home of Radagast at Rhosbobel. Radagast was not there; and they had returned over the high pass that was called the Dimrill Stair.



The implication is that the scouts searched the area for him, at least for a while. It's unlikely that they just knocked on the door and simply left when there was no answer. If Radagast had turned up later, one would think that it would have at least received a mention in the Appendices. Saruman may have had him assassinated; he may have gone into hiding. Tolkien leaves his disappearance as an unsolved mystery.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 22 2012, 11:21pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 22 2012, 11:17pm


Views: 882
as it should be IMO

"Tolkien leaves his disappearance as an unsolved mystery."Wink


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:21pm


Views: 861
Yes, they should leave it as a mystery

But as I've been trying to say, there should be some indication that he didn't go back to live there happily ever after.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 11:24pm


Views: 882
Don't think I agree with that.

If you read the next paragraph it details the results of (and thus reasons for) the scouting - discerning whether it was safe for the ring to leave.

I would also suggest that your take is less likely an explanation because
1. We have no idea why Elrond would be mounting such a large scale search for Radagast
2. We are not told of any implications of not finding him after such a large search
3. If they were searching for him all over why only mention that he wasn't at Rhosgobel and not say they could not find him anywhere.

I don't think that stacks up to me.

LR


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 22 2012, 11:25pm


Views: 888
Maybe they will show Gandalf and Bilbo stopping by on their way home after its all over and the place will just be vacant and empty...

its a thought anyways Wink


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:27pm


Views: 868
Yup, that would be fine with me

And get across to the audience that he doesn't want anymore to do with wars, battles and baddies.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 11:30pm


Views: 1013
I think they would be presumed out, to me! NT

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:34pm


Views: 1020
Even if you stayed overnight, on their doorstep, and they still didn't show up?

Which is probably what the scouts did. Even if you searched the premises to see where they could be? Even if the neighbours didn't know where they were? Even if their were indications that no-one had been inside for days/weeks/months? Even if you couldn't contact them? Even if after you left, they didn't get in contact?

I think you're looking at this far too much from a real life situation. In Middle-earth, Radagast was missing. And that's that.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:35pm


Views: 999
I never suggested that there was a large-scale search.

You assume much more than what I either stated or implied. All we know is that several scouts (out of many) went to Rhosgobel seeking after Radagast. I never suggested that they sent for reinforcements or carried out a more intensive search at some later date. All I stated is that the scouts had likely searched the area fairly thoroughly before giving up and returning with their report. They would not have been very good scouts if they had done otherwise. Or, to take your reponse point-for-point:

1. No one (except you) suggested a large-scale search.
2. See above.
3. See above above.

Arguments that don't apply also don't carry any weight.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 22 2012, 11:41pm


Views: 978
Hmmmm . . .

. . . and that fits with what it says in the LOTR . . . Radagast could have been away from home trying to avoid the coming conflict . . . a possibility.

It's unlikely that Elrond would have sent out scouts with instructions to simply 'look for signs of Nazgul'. As the LOTR mentions they stopped at Rhosgobelhe's likely to have given instructions to contact allies and ask what they've seen . . . and he may have specifically asked them to stop by and look in on Raddy.

---

Either way, I doubt Raddy gets killed off . . . I think . . . no, bad way to put it . . . . . . . . . I have faith in the PJ and the writing team that they will not kill of a canon character . . . that's partof the reason they create new characters . . . some of them act as cannon fodder . . . pun not intended, but noted . . .and I can't think of any character located somewhere in Tolkien's writtings that they killed off, unless that is what Prof. Tolkien did to them.

My Opinion only . . .


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 11:45pm


Views: 980
Eh?

I don't follow why the scouts who are looking for servants of Sauron would probably be camping on Radagast's doorway (they might but I don't get the probably - one could just as well say they probably didn't as they had an alternate mission with a pressiing deadline but anyway).

Where are the indications that no one had been at Rhosgobel for a period of time? Now if Tolkien had said that, or that the place was boarded up, maybe I would say we had some clues. But he doesn't.

How were they to contact him? Smoke signals, maybe, I guess?

And how do we know whether Radagast came back, got in contact or anything else?

And you can't just say "that's that". That might be your reading but there's no that's that about it. I may as well say he was was on a safari holiday in south Harad and that's that.

To return to the original thrust Tolkien certainly didn't go out of his way to explain Radagast's absence from the rest of the events of LOTR or his subsequent fate. This doesn't seem to have caused any uproar historically.

LR


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 22 2012, 11:55pm


Views: 970
No we don't know that.

Where does it state that they were seeking Radagast? And why would they be?

The scouting operation described is (excuse the longish quote):

"The hobbits had been nearly two months in the House of Elrond, and November had gone bywith the last shreds of autumn, and December was passing, when the scouts began to return. Some had gone north beyond the springs of the Hoarwell into the Ettenmoors; and others had gone west,
and with the help of Aragorn and the Rangers had searched the lands far down the Greyflood, as faras Tharbad, where the old North Road crossed the river by a ruined town. Many had gone east andsouth; and some of these had crossed the Mountains and entered Mirkwood, while others had climbed the pass at the source of the Gladden River, and had come down into Wilderland and overthe Gladden Fields and so at length had reached the old home of Radagast at Rhosgobel. Radagast was not there; and they had returned over the high pass that was called the Dimrill Stair."

The outcome of the scouting is revealed:

"In no region had the messengers discovered any signs or tidings of the Riders or other servantsof the Enemy. Even from the Eagles of the Misty Mountains they had learned no fresh news.Nothing had been seen or heard of Gollum; but the wild wolves were still gathering, and were hunting again far up the Great River ...etc"

And we know that this was vital information to decide if the Ring could leave Rivendell.

So are you suggesting that this ought to be interpreted as two separate searches - one for Radagast (for reasons unknown) and one to gather info on where Sauron's servants were in order to plan the journey of the Fellowship?

I don't see any evidence for that myself.

LR


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:55pm


Views: 977
The scouts went from Rhosgobel to the Redhorn Pass, and back to Rivendell

They had no other pressing business whatsoever. They obviously went to find Radagast on the end of their merry trip around Middle-earth. Although not their only mission, obviously Elrond wanted them to check up on him. If he wasn't in, then they may have assumed he was out, and waited for him to come back. He didn't, so they went back to Rivendell. More happens in Middle-earth than is written in black ink. The scouts were pretty crap otherwise.


Quote
To return to the original thrust Tolkien certainly didn't go out of his way to explain Radagast's absence from the rest of the events of LOTR or his subsequent fate. This doesn't seem to have caused any uproar historically.



You're still missing my point. I don't care how they leave it as a mystery, they should not however show him live happily every after.

Whether he is actually physically missing is a whole different issue. I'm not at all questioning whether he actually was missing, or busy living it large in Harad. I'm questioning where everyone else in Middle-earth, and therefore, the reader, believes Radagast is. So, for one final time, as I am getting irritable, the only person who knew where Radagast was at the beginning of the War of the Ring, was Radagast himself. So to everyone else in Middle-earth, where was he?

A) Missing
B) Not missing

And yes, there is only one right answer. And yes, it's A. I can't see how anyone in Middle-earth can think he is not missing.

I shall say no more of this until the morning. I'm tired, and need to catch some z's. Night all.


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 23 2012, 12:04am)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 22 2012, 11:56pm


Views: 987
There is precedence for PJ killing off Tolkien's characters


In Reply To
Either way, I doubt Raddy gets killed off . . . I think . . . no, bad way to put it . . . . . . . . . I have faith in the PJ and the writing team that they will not kill of a canon character . . . that's partof the reason they create new characters . . . some of them act as cannon fodder . . . pun not intended, but noted . . .and I can't think of any character located somewhere in Tolkien's writtings that they killed off, unless that is what Prof. Tolkien did to them.

My Opinion only . . .



There was Haldir and his entire unit of Elven archers, whom Jackson wiped out at Helm's Deep. In the books, Haldir was never at Helm's Deep. The deaths were added to the film to symbolize the price paid for the War in the North.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 23 2012, 12:03am


Views: 979
Again, you assume too much...

Firstly, I doubt that the scouts stopped by Rhosgobel to borrow a cup of sugar. If they were not looking for the Brown Wizard then they had no reason for being there. As for why, it would have been part of their orders to touch base with other allies and potential allies along the way to see what they knew. Not a separate search, but one that was integrated into their primary mission.

You keep trying to put words into other people's mouths that they never said. Stop it.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 23 2012, 12:05am)


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 23 2012, 12:07am


Views: 979
The ring is at Rivendell

And the Nazgul know it. And Elrond is sending out his forces on " merry trips"

I don't understand how the reader not knowing where he is equals no one in ME knows where he is.

And if he has gone for a walk , and no one does know his precise location that is not the same as him "going missing" for months/ years/ forever.

LR


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 23 2012, 12:08am


Views: 948
Hmmmm . . .

Good point . . . Haldir was actually mentioned in the book, wasn't he . . .

Well, THANK YOU Tongue . . . . . . . . . . now I'm back to worrying about Radagast geeting killed off . . . . . . . . . .
Kidding . . . mostly . . . thanx for pointing that out.


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 23 2012, 12:11am


Views: 985
Because if no-one in Middle-earth knows where he is, then the reader certainly doesn't know where he is!

I don't care if he was out for a walk (he may well have been), but to the scouts, to Elrond, to Gandalf, and to the reader, he is not where he should be, and is never heard of again.

Quite a mystery to where he actually is, and therefore, presumed, missing.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 23 2012, 12:11am


Views: 963
You wan't to be more worried about whether Radagast was missing or not ;-) /

 


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 23 2012, 12:15am


Views: 952
Well they are the words in the book

Rhosghobel is mentioned as one of several specific locations. Perhaps they were borrowing sugar at each of those instead.

The purpose of the scouting is made perfectly plain in the following paragraph.

They stopped at Rhosghobel. Radagast wasn't there. The rest is supposition.

LR


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 23 2012, 12:16am


Views: 941
yes the ring is Rivendell during FOTR

but in the Hobbit Sauron has no clue what so ever where it is. And the events with Radagast are taking place during the time of the Hobbit not FOTR from my understanding. So that makes the LOTR timeline obsolete and out dated


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 23 2012, 12:17am


Views: 950
Where does it say Gandalf or

Elrond never heard from him again?

LR


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 23 2012, 12:18am


Views: 926
Well, there we are then.


Quote
The rest is supposition.


By that logic, Radagast was neither missing, nor out for a walk. He must have been in a state of flux, deciding whether to take the form of a moth or not.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 23 2012, 12:19am


Views: 956
Read more closely.


In Reply To
Rhosghobel is mentioned as one of several specific locations. Perhaps they were borrowing sugar at each of those instead.

The purpose of the scouting is made perfectly plain in the following paragraph.

They stopped at Rhosghobel. Radagast wasn't there. The rest is supposition.

LR



It is also made plain in that same paragraph that the scouts are consulting with other allies (such as the Eagles). Radagast falls under the same umbrella.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 23 2012, 12:21am


Views: 929
Because he was never mentioned again.

If Tolkien wanted Radagast to suddenly appear at the end with a "congratulations for destroying Sauron" cake, then he would've done. Radagast's sudden re-appearance would certainly be worth a couple of sentences in the book, a note in the Appendices, or even a mention in one of his letters.

The fact he is not mentioned again is good enough evidence that nobody ever saw or heard from him again. Which I believe is called missing?


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 23 2012, 12:22am)


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 23 2012, 12:25am


Views: 946
In flux, huh . . .

Like Schrodinger's Cat? Wink


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Aug 23 2012, 1:02am


Views: 944
(This post includes book-spoilers) Why does Radagasts absence have to be explained?

When there are 13 dwarves (well... 10, really) that doesn't show up in LotR, and that's fine...
The only one we get explanation from is Balin, in Moria... :P

Vocalist in the semi-progressive metal band Arctic Eclipse


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 23 2012, 2:19am


Views: 890
The text does not say they were seeking Radagast

It simply implies that while the scouts scoured Mirkwood for signs of the Black Riders, they stopped by Rhosgobel, likely with the intention of asking if he, or his animal friends, had seen anything.mas he wasn't there, and there were likely no signs of him nearby, the implication is that he is gone, or missing, from that area. But as he seems to be a well-travelled wizard, there is no indication that him not being at Rhosgobel, or in and around Mirkwood, constitutes 'missing.'

The primary objective of the scouts was to find information about the Black Riders, not to find Radagast. He was likely just one potential informant among many.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 23 2012, 4:20am


Views: 888
Of course finding Radagast was of secondary importance (at most)...


In Reply To
It simply implies that while the scouts scoured Mirkwood for signs of the Black Riders, they stopped by Rhosgobel, likely with the intention of asking if he, or his animal friends, had seen anything.mas he wasn't there, and there were likely no signs of him nearby, the implication is that he is gone, or missing, from that area. But as he seems to be a well-travelled wizard, there is no indication that him not being at Rhosgobel, or in and around Mirkwood, constitutes 'missing.'

The primary objective of the scouts was to find information about the Black Riders, not to find Radagast. He was likely just one potential informant among many.



I am not saying that finding Radagast was part of their primary mission. Checking in on him, like questioning the Eagles, was another way of keeping track of enemy movements; he or his animal friends might have seen something that the scouts would have missed otherwise. The fact that he could not be accounted for was notable, though, especially since he ceases to be mentioned again in the annals of Middle-earth.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 23 2012, 6:48am


Views: 883
The definition of missing


Quote
But as he seems to be a well-travelled wizard, there is no indication that him not being at Rhosgobel, or in and around Mirkwood, constitutes 'missing.'



1. (of a thing) Not able to be found because it is not in its expected place.
2. Not present or included when expected or supposed to be.

Synonyms: lost, absent, wanting, lacking, gone.

If Radagast doesn't fit this very definition, then I give up.


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 23 2012, 6:49am)


stormcrow20
Gondor


Aug 24 2012, 8:06am


Views: 904
Ai! Aiwendil!

It's a great relief to finally see the bird-tamer! I'm not fond of the hat, and I loathe the bird droppings. But otherwise, he looks good. I like the satchel, and his wavy hair and beard. I'm still concerned about his portrayal at this point, but regardless of that, I'm glad they are including Radagast. I can't wait to have a better look at him, and especially to "meet" him on screen!



(This post was edited by stormcrow20 on Aug 24 2012, 8:08am)


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 27 2012, 1:02pm


Views: 767
I wasn't suggesting they were playing knock and run

Calling in on Radagast is clearly implied. Setting up camp for weeks on end or setting about searching for such a well travelled chap to the degree that the reader should believe he has gone missing is, to mind mind not. This latter was the context of the term "searching" in the conversation here.

LR


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 27 2012, 1:07pm


Views: 802
This same logic would therefore mean that

Any character whose final death/ fate is not mentioned in the text should, at the moment of their final mention in the text, be deemed to have gone missing.

I rather think that the texts are, as we are given to understand, written from the spheres of knowledge of the hobbits. There is nothing odd about them not knowing and/or not mentioning the follow up details of every minor character in the tales.

LR


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 27 2012, 1:12pm


Views: 779
Why should he be expected to be at home?

Without appointment?

In the three short mentions of Radagast in TH/LOTR we know he travels hundreds of miles north, west and south of Rhosghobel. I don't understand It should seem odd that he is not at home and certainly don't think Tolkien offers enough suggestion of this for most readers to be intended to see this as a clear explanation of his status.

LR


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 27 2012, 4:13pm


Views: 743
That is your definition of 'searching'


In Reply To
Calling in on Radagast is clearly implied. Setting up camp for weeks on end or setting about searching for such a well travelled chap to the degree that the reader should believe he has gone missing is, to mind mind not. This latter was the context of the term "searching" in the conversation here.

LR



I never stated or implied that the scouts searched for Radagast "for weeks on end". Rather, I envision a quick search of the area to confirm that the Wizard isn't around.

While it is true that Tolkien had written that Gandalf was the only Istari who successfully completed his mission in Middle-earth and returned to Valinor, the Professor did rethink his position in later years. He never wrote of Radagast taking ship into the West with the Ring-bearers; however, there is some reason to think that he might have simply taken another ship at a different point in time, unrecorded in the annals.

'Thus spake Ioreth, wise-woman of Gondor: The hands of the king are the hands of a healer, and so shall the rightful king be known.' - Gandalf the White


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 27 2012, 5:34pm


Views: 737
Not mine

And not yours, but that was the definition implied in the origin of the sub thread - a search to the extent that him not being there ought reasonably to tell the reader that he has "gone missing" and remains so for the duration of the events of LOTR (if not for ever).

LR


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 27 2012, 9:18pm


Views: 742
I hadn't realised this topic was still going on

I've not got much else to say, so I'll shake your hand and just agree to disagree. Smile