The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
New Interview with Peter Jackson - Hobbits, Freeman and 48fps



DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 11 2012, 11:14pm


Views: 4301
New Interview with Peter Jackson - Hobbits, Freeman and 48fps

The Dominion Post have a new interview up with Peter Jackson, titled Peter Jackson: King of the little people.

A snippet:


Quote

"I always liked the hobbits because you can identify with them - and I particularly can. I'm a homebody, I like to put my feet up and I like the comforts of home. I'm not much of an adventurer, so I've always related to the hobbits and the story of Bilbo Baggins is the ultimate hobbit story."


There are no new spoilers or new pieces of information.

Edit: The article pretty much confirms the title will remain An Unexpected Journey.


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 11 2012, 11:17pm)


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell

Aug 11 2012, 11:37pm


Views: 2637
3rd film

Interesting that it says that TABA is going to be split into two parts. What I mean is that the way it is phrased implies that it might even be called TABA part 1 and 2 also it kind of suggests that AUJ will be left intact.

I wonder if this was from what PJ said or if it's the author's own interpretation/speculation.

Great article though! Thanks


Spaldron
Rivendell


Aug 11 2012, 11:56pm


Views: 2549
Been saying this all along


In Reply To
Interesting that it says that TABA is going to be split into two parts. What I mean is that the way it is phrased implies that it might even be called TABA part 1 and 2 also it kind of suggests that AUJ will be left intact.


This is exactly what I've been saying all along, in fact this deserves its own thread.

"A single dream is more powerful than a thousand realities."


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Aug 12 2012, 12:43am


Views: 2439
I really hope they don't number them //

 


burgahobbit
Rohan


Aug 12 2012, 1:31am


Views: 2487
Some interesting things I saw...


Quote
"You don't know whether you like it until you sit down and watch a two-hour film. That's how it should be judged - not in a convention hall."


Could easily just be a random running time thrown out there for an example but you never know...


Quote
"People still write to us about LOTR. So for us it's ongoing and that's part of the joy; realising you're creating something that's entertaining people and hopefully will entertain them for years to come... long after we're all gone."


Support for the argument that PJ may go and change some parts of LOTR? Hmmmm....

(PS: Thought I'd repost this here since it's more appropriate for this thread than the next.)


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Aug 12 2012, 2:25am


Views: 2397
Hmmm

I know some people think this means that the 2nd & 3rd films will be called Part 1 & Part 2, but nothing in the article indicates that. That sentence just refers to the fact that there will now be 3 films instead of 2. PJ won't make a film that doesn't stand on it's own. Expect 3 individual titles for 3 individual films.



"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


imin
Valinor


Aug 12 2012, 2:29am


Views: 2456
Would it really matter if they were called part 1 and part 2?

I don't think it would. Part 1 and 2 of HP were individual movies just as much as FOTR was in relation to TTT or TTT to ROTK.

To me the name doesn't really matter, though three separate names would give the impression of them being more individual.


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Aug 12 2012, 2:33am


Views: 2409
No they weren't...

To me, all I see is Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. No Part 1 & 2. When the first part ends, there's no emotional build-up to the end of that film. It's simply a pause before resuming the same movie in Part 2. The Lord of the Rings films are much different. Each film is an entity onto itself, with a self contained story that has an emotional arc and conclusion, even if the overall plot continues into the next film. It feels like 3 books (or volumes) comprising a novel, wheres Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows feels like one book cut in half.



"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Aug 12 2012, 2:36am)


imin
Valinor


Aug 12 2012, 2:40am


Views: 2421
Its late here so we will have to just agree to disagree on this i think.

I felt there was just as much an ending to part 1 deathly hallows as say FOTR with TTT. HP ends with voldemort finding the elder wand which he has been searching for most of the movie - emotional build up.

Just as much as frodo deciding to head off himself. The story continues just as much in each series i feel. I dont think you can watch TTT or ROTK by itself and appreciate it as much as you could had you not watched the previous films in the trilogy. Its its own film but only up to a point, same as HP.

To me the name of part 1 and 2 or having separate names doesnt change this.


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Aug 12 2012, 2:48am


Views: 2371
Fair enough

For me, when I walked out of HP7 - I felt like I had only seen half a movie (and indeed, HP7.5 feels very much like the 2 hour action climax of Part 1). I never felt that way with any of the Lord of the Rings films. They each felt like films with storylines that reached a certain resolution by the end of the 3 hours. I felt like I was waiting a year for a new chapter, not the remainder of a chapter I was in the middle of.

None of this should be taken as a slight against 'Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows'. As a matter of fact, I really like it a lot. It just feels like one movie to me, whereas I LotR feels like 3 distinct films - albeit ones comprising a complete story.



"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Aug 12 2012, 2:56am)


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 12 2012, 9:19am


Views: 2301
Same - It's just lazy

The Desolation of Smaug and There and Back Again work fine.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 12 2012, 9:20am


Views: 2296
A lot of people already think this

Including myself. An Unexpected Journey will remain the same, and will end somewhere in Mirkwood. Film 2 will involve the death of Smaug. Film 3 the Battle of the Five Armies.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 12 2012, 9:23am


Views: 2277
It's just not very original

Part 1 and Part 2. Not the most exciting titles are they. For someone who has never read the books, nor seen the films, it doesn't give away anything. Just a bit ... bland ... (like Harry Potter).

On the other hand, The Desolation of Smaug and The Batttle of the Five Armies are for more exciting. That's going to get people more interested that part 1 and part 2.


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell

Aug 12 2012, 9:23am


Views: 2305
That's how I have thought that it will play out as well

and I think that it will be magnificent!


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 12 2012, 9:24am


Views: 2290
Me too!

I was also a little dubious about a third film, and dormouse spent a lot of time trying to convince me. A couple of weeks later, and I have to say that the prospect is exciting! Now I wonder why I was critical in the first place. Wink


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell

Aug 12 2012, 9:33am


Views: 2306
Yep

It's actually making me consider changing career (tax lawyer) and making films instead. I'm really interested in how the whole management process and day-to-day production and problem-solving of logistics works.

I find it fascinating.

Right now I think people may be slightly irritated about having to wait an extra six months for the conclusion, but five years from now we won't be able to imagine it any other way. Due to the original Hobbit narrative being what it is, I suspect that it might be relatively easy to just cut out all the extraneous stuff and get a "pure cut".


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Aug 12 2012, 9:38am


Views: 2389
The Desolation of Smaug:

is weak as a title for the middle movie. How about "The Decimation of Smaug".

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Aug 12 2012, 9:43am


Views: 2314
The Final Chapter

must focus upon the journey home as well as The Battle of Five Armies, and I think it will. The Hobbit should be more about character and less about battle in my not-so-humble-opinion.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



imin
Valinor


Aug 12 2012, 9:43am


Views: 2319
Yeah i agree

Its just not very original.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 12 2012, 10:00am


Views: 2348
Some quotes:

"Unlike the book, the movies won't be skewed towards a younger audience. Instead, Jackson says, he has blended the 'charm and humour' of The Hobbit, with the darker tone found in Return of the King's 125-page appendices (which are essentially Tolkien's expanded notes from The Hobbit)..."

*sigh.. The Hobbit wasn't 'skewed towards a younger audience' - it was made up for children; particularly, Tolkien's own children. Neither are Tolkien's Appendices 'essentially Tolkien's expanded notes from The Hobbit' - no matter how many times pJ says they are.

Boyens says: "I remember sitting with Fran and saying, 'I can't believe I'm typing the words Wizard and Hobbit again'.."

That goes for me, too.

.


(This post was edited by geordie on Aug 12 2012, 10:04am)


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 12 2012, 10:03am


Views: 2368
Desolation is better -

- it best describes what Smaug did to the people and the surrounding countryside.

To me, 'Decimation' sounds like Smaug just did a tenth of the potential damage. (originally, decimation was what the romans did to a legion which had mutinied. Nasty!)

.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 12 2012, 12:40pm


Views: 2212
It's better than part 1 though ... /

 


Noria
Gondor

Aug 12 2012, 12:41pm


Views: 2260
The Hobbit

As soon as Guillermo del Toro left The Hobbit project and it was announced that PJ would direct two movies, it was evident that these would be much bigger than Tolkien’s The Hobbit novel and that they would be, for better or for worse, Peter Jackson movies. I expect big monsters, lots of fighting, silly humour, some missteps but many moments of feeling, beauty and grace and a compelling and vivid realization of Middle Earth. The Hobbit will be one of the stories told in these movies but not the only one.

It will be interesting to see how the experience of making the LotR trilogy + 10 years changes PJ’s approach. Certainly the filming was organized far differently and the video logs indicate a rather larger and more organized set up.

I’ve been hoping that AUJ would be kept as a title and that the movie would stay much the same as it that panoramic image represented it, ending with Barrels Out of Bond. This interview gives me a bit of hope of that.

Ending the second movie with the death of Smaug makes sense to me, as does the title The Desolation of Smaug. But if I were naming it I’d call it The Desolation of the Dragon because a good part of the movie audience won’t know who Smaug is. But maybe that would sound too much like a martial arts film.Wink

That leaves There and Back Again, which I really hope is retained just becasue I like it. IMO The Battle of Five Armies is a poor choice which sounds more like a video game than a movie.

Not that it matters. Anyone who loves AUJ will go to see the other two movies whatever they are called.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 12 2012, 12:50pm


Views: 2225
I like The Desolation of the Dragon

But it's more of a mouthful. I see what you mean by The Desolation of Smaug sounding like a video game. I'd be happy with most titles, just not part 1 and part 2.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Aug 12 2012, 12:50pm


Views: 2266
"The Hobbit: A Hobbit's Tale" could've been cool...

The reiteration of the word "Hobbit" comes across as odd... but it makes the title different and it kinda works in a weird way. Especially if it was used for the first movie, when you consider Bilbo is telling his tale to Frodo.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Aug 12 2012, 1:02pm


Views: 960
p-s-t...

it was a bit of an attempt at humor. I still think that "The Desolation of Smaug" is a weak title.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Aug 12 2012, 1:05pm


Views: 945
It also better than "Enter the Dragon" but

it is not up to snuff.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



tolktolk
Lorien

Aug 12 2012, 1:39pm


Views: 983
This isn't new!

Just to put things into context, this isn't a new interview. All the quotes are taken from a press conference at Comic Con which has been on YouTube for weeks, though oddly enough very few people seem to have seen it.

It was put up on YouTube by LaCosaCineCentral, and there are links to part one and two of the conference on Thorinoakenshield.net.

It has different questions and answers from other interviews done on the day, some of which are very funny. Martin says he calls Peter Jackson " a 12 year-old with a beard" and you see him smiling and nodding! Martin also says he is proud of the fact that with so men being constantly together, nobody punched anyone and Ian says "That's because the gay members of the cast were keeping you in order!"


Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven


Aug 12 2012, 2:52pm


Views: 1000
I am so glad...

...to see someone remembering what the word "decimate" actually means. I roll my eyes every time a TV announcer uses it as a synonym for "destroy" or "demolish". Although I realize I'm fighting an uphill battle for proper grammar and that particular error is minor compared to others I hear every day. Unsure

* * * * * * *
Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?

A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Aug 12 2012, 3:02pm


Views: 973
Decimate has more than one definition.

It has been modernized.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 12 2012, 3:14pm


Views: 950
Well, in all fairness

I think there would be a strong argument to say that that isn't what decimate "actually" means today. The current usage has been prevalent since at least the mid 19th century. Whilst there are, of course, no hard rules I think most people would tend to the view that the time period of use would suggest the older meanings were now essentially obsolete, as opposed to the new usage being incorrect.

LR


rings7
Rohan


Aug 12 2012, 3:38pm


Views: 862
Well, i take it like

Harry Potter and the Half Blood Prince. Movie audience didn't know who the "Prince" was till the end of the entire movie. So it'll work this one too. And yeah, Enter the Dragon would come to mind, just like Revenge of the Nerds came to mind when the Revenge of the Sith came out from Star Wars.Crazy


TomthePilgrim
Rohan


Aug 12 2012, 4:08pm


Views: 886
How about "Fire and Water"?

That is the chapter name for Smaug's attack on Laketown and his demise.

I still like "There and Back Again" for part 3 . . .


The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,

"Thorin sat up with a start. 'Something is not right,' he muttered to himself as he stood up and
looked towards the mirror . . . . . . . . . 'Durin's bones', he gasped, 'what's happened to my beard?'"


Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven


Aug 12 2012, 4:15pm


Views: 873
Yes, the language evolves

I suppose if I weren't aware of the "deci" in "decimate" meaning "tenth", as in "decimal", I wouldn't be so annoyed by this particular evolution. But then, I tend to over-think trivia questions, too. Tongue

I'm still unrepentently pleased that geordie brought up the original meaning. Smile

* * * * * * *
Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?

A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 12 2012, 4:34pm


Views: 900
There's a new meaning?

- you mean, when Riley's wife Sam (in Buffy the Vampire Slayer) reports that the Suvolte demon 'decimated' two villages in South America, it didn't carefully leave 90% of the villagers alive? Total destruction, eh? Man, that's harsh! no wonder she shook her head in disgust as she was saying it. (on the other hand, why not say it 'totally destroyed' two villages?)

Anyway - a change in definition, you all say? Let's see; I need a new dictionary; only an Oxford dictionary will do; most of these on-line ones seem to be capable of editing by anybody; like wikis... here we are:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/definition/english/decimate

...Ah. So, I'm a traditionalist, eh? Stap me vitals! Well, I'd rather be a traditionalist than someone whose ideas of what a word means changes every hundred years or so! Pshaw!

Wink


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Aug 12 2012, 5:09pm


Views: 899
More The One Definition

 
This is the last refuge of those who rationalize a certain lack of erudition.

Oh, yeah: Wink

On the larger topic, I greatly prefer "desolation" in the title. It's grander and less pedestrian or, shall we say, less proletariat. Sly

Also, big thanks for geordie for educating me just a little more. I was not aware of the roman origins, but it made perfect sense with "deci" in retrospect, like something obvious hiding right out there in the open. Cool stuff.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Aug 12 2012, 5:17pm)


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 12 2012, 5:39pm


Views: 896
I don't understand this sorry.

"More the one definition - this is the last refuge of those who rationalise a certain lack of erudition"

Could you explain?

LR


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 12 2012, 5:55pm


Views: 838
It doesn't really fit with all the other titles though /

 


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 12 2012, 6:30pm


Views: 830
In further all fairness

That isn't actually the quote from Jackson.

He said they have "the rights to use this 125 pages of additional notes where Tolkien expanded the world of ‘The Hobbit’" which is rather more reasonable.

LR


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 12 2012, 7:01pm


Views: 849
It's not just TV announcers who caved in to the popular usage

It's English and American dictionaries too!

Yes, I also prefer the original definition, which referred to eliminating one out of ten! Hardly a "wipe out."

However, language evolves, and English does so especially quickly. I would be very sorry if the guardians of the English language emulated the French, and tried to lock the language in a mausoleum.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Aug 12 2012, 7:03pm)


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 12 2012, 8:18pm


Views: 773
I was quoting from the article in this thread -

- can I ask which article you're quoting from?

I can quote more directly from a different article:

http://www.deadline.com/2012/07/the-hobbit-going-for-a-trilogy-its-possible/

Here, pJ says:

"Sauron doesn’t appear at all in The Hobbit. Tolkien was retrospectively fitting The Hobbit to embrace that mythology. He never wrote that book, but there are 125 pages of notes published at the back of Return of the King in one of the later editions. It was called The Appendices, and they are essentially his expanded Hobbit notes. So we had the rights to those as well and were allowed to use them.” Said Jackson: “We haven’t just adapted The Hobbit; we’ve adapted that book plus great chunks of his appendices and woven it all together. The movie explains where Gandalf goes; the book never does. We’ve explained it using Tolkien’s own notes."

In reality, the Appendices were not 'published at the back of Return of the King in one of the later editions. - they were included in the 1st edition of that book, in October 1955; and they are not 'extended hobbit notes'.

I saw something on the net where pJ said, 'We. Have had Access. To. The appendices!' - as if he'd been granted some boon not given to us ordinary mortals I thought, 'Yeah, well - so has everybody else since the book was written.'

One of my interests in 'the hobby' is Tolkien bibliography. I don't mind when people get it wrong; but I don't like it when folk like pJ try and re-write it to suit themselves.






Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 12 2012, 8:34pm


Views: 813
The article here

Does not present it as a quote from Jackson. I was quoting from this article:

http://collider.com/peter-jackson-martin-freeman-the-hobbit-interview/180675

[edited to add ----> be careful if you click on current pop-ups at collider.com - possibly disturbing images]

Which seems a much more reasonable explanation of the reletionship between the Hobbit and Appendices material.

LR


(This post was edited by Altaira on Aug 12 2012, 10:02pm)


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 12 2012, 8:42pm


Views: 821
Uh-huh

- phew!

- well, thanks for telling us which article you were quoting from. In my latest post, I've taken care to quote directly from pJ.

BTW - I've just taken a look at the link you've given, and I shan't be doing it again - there's a pop-up there which I find distressing.


(This post was edited by geordie on Aug 12 2012, 8:45pm)


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 12 2012, 8:54pm


Views: 793
Sorry

What's the pop up thing? I'm not sure if you are joking but equally I don't want to be suggesting a link to anything inappropriate.

LR


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Aug 12 2012, 9:03pm


Views: 806
geordie

 "as if he'd been granted some boon not given to us ordinary mortals I thought, 'Yeah, well - so has everybody else since the book was written.' "

You see what you want to see. Clearly, you dont think that much of Pj , so instead of honest enthusiasm you see pj being a bit of an egomaniac.

What do you mean with re-write it? Re write the appendices? Or are you just refering to his understandable mistake with the editions?

As to refering to the appendices as extended hobbit notes, makes sense since thats what they also are. Not just that, but that including.


(This post was edited by Lusitano on Aug 12 2012, 9:03pm)


Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven


Aug 12 2012, 9:13pm


Views: 784
Are there any guardians of the English language?

Yes, one of the delights of English is its flexibility and adaptability. I just have a bee in my bonnet about several of the ways in which it's being adapted. A friend of mine objects to "impact" being used as a verb, unless you intend it in its medical meaning, but I imagine her preference is being swept away, too.

* * * * * * *
Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?

A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Aug 12 2012, 9:23pm


Views: 857
He calls me rude and unlearned.

Gutsy! No?

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Aug 12 2012, 9:23pm)


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 12 2012, 9:32pm


Views: 803
I clicked the link

- and a picture came up over the article you linked to. I had the sound off at the time - what I saw was (I suppose) an ad. for a horror film. A moving picture (as opposed to a still) of a young woman, whose face became covered from behind by a pair of grisly-looking hands. It happened again, after a few seconds, when I tried the link again. I don't suppose it's 'inappropriate' (though I didn't look too long).

.


Lacrimae Rerum
Grey Havens

Aug 12 2012, 9:43pm


Views: 762
Ah my apologies.

I am on an IPad at the mo so don't get the pop ups in the same way. I'll ask the admins to put s note on the link.

LR


Longbottom Leaf
Lorien


Aug 12 2012, 10:32pm


Views: 759
Word!

Definition:
Word:
To signify agreement or approval of another persons statement.
Example:
Person 1: I can't wait for The Hobbit movies!
Person 2: Word!

or............. To question another persons statement.

Example: 1: The Hobbit is gonna be 3 movies now!
2: Oh word?

Haha sorry just havin some fun with wordses!

The best weed in the southfarthing!


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 12 2012, 10:44pm


Views: 920
There are, but they have little to no power

Unlike the guardians of the French language, who are highly institutionalized and very influential.

The guardians of the English language are simply those who insist that certain arbitrary standards of grammar, cemented at some arbitrary time in history, should be enforced with rigor and intolerance.

Tolkien had no patience for that sort of thing, and I don't either.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Aug 13 2012, 4:51am


Views: 864
That would be cool.


In Reply To

Quote
"People still write to us about LOTR. So for us it's ongoing and that's part of the joy; realising you're creating something that's entertaining people and hopefully will entertain them for years to come... long after we're all gone."


Support for the argument that PJ may go and change some parts of LOTR? Hmmmm....

(PS: Thought I'd repost this here since it's more appropriate for this thread than the next.)



But I'm thinking it's unlikely that he will do this seeing as the extra scenes he wanted to film are going into the hobbit movies.

But my dream would be him changing some things to Return of the King. If he were going to I would really want to see him redo some of the Paths of the dead stuff and make it more like the book and not have them show up at the end. But that's probably the least likely thing to happen. A boy can dream though.

But if he does add stuff to ROTK I would LOVE to see stuff about the battles fought elsewhere with the elves and dwarves. And that would probably be the most likely thing to happen if it ever does.

But again I think he's just expanding the hobbit.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Aug 13 2012, 4:55am


Views: 904
Yep


In Reply To
I know some people think this means that the 2nd & 3rd films will be called Part 1 & Part 2, but nothing in the article indicates that. That sentence just refers to the fact that there will now be 3 films instead of 2. PJ won't make a film that doesn't stand on it's own. Expect 3 individual titles for 3 individual films.


I completely agree. IMO, The thing that was bad about DH being split into two parts is that part 1 didn't seem to stand on its own. It didn't lead up to a thrilling climax. And it just felt as if they were trying to get stuff filmed and out of the way for the 2nd part.

But I trust PJ will be able to make 3 films that he knows how to structure story-wise that will lead to a fulfilling climax and allows each one to stand on it's own, so to speak; even if it means cutting the story at an odd place in the book.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Aug 13 2012, 4:58am


Views: 872
And once again


In Reply To
To me, all I see is Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows. No Part 1 & 2. When the first part ends, there's no emotional build-up to the end of that film. It's simply a pause before resuming the same movie in Part 2. The Lord of the Rings films are much different. Each film is an entity onto itself, with a self contained story that has an emotional arc and conclusion, even if the overall plot continues into the next film. It feels like 3 books (or volumes) comprising a novel, wheres Harry Potter and the Deathly Hallows feels like one book cut in half.


Didn't see you post this til just now. But THAT is exactly how I feel about DH prt1. it just didn't really lead to an emotional climax. It doesn't stand out as a movie. There's no particular arc for that one. IMO, this really makes for a sub par movie.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Aug 13 2012, 5:10am


Views: 907
Where I hope film 1 ends.


In Reply To
Including myself. An Unexpected Journey will remain the same, and will end somewhere in Mirkwood. Film 2 will involve the death of Smaug. Film 3 the Battle of the Five Armies.


I've honestly always thought that the spider battle in Mirkwood would be quite climactic enough for the end of the first one. This is why I've been a little wary of why it appears that film 1 is going to end with the barrel sequence.

Because in between the spider battle we have the whole ordeal with the Mirkwood Elves and then the barrel sequence. So if those two parts are in film 1 then the spider battle shouldn't be the climax because there's got to be a good 20 minutes or so til' the barrel riding sequence. Which would be a little anti-climactic.

But for the life of me I still can't see where there would be a good climax either in the elven halls or in the barrel riding sequence. Unless the elven halls is really short (and I hope it's not) then we could still have the spider battle as the climax.

But with the edition of the third film I'm hoping then that the Spider battle will be the climax and most of the elven halls will be the beginning of film two. But if this is not the case, I hope, and trust, that PJ will be able to give a good climax to the film somewhere close to the final shots. But we will just have to wait and see.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Aug 13 2012, 5:14am


Views: 872
I hope they keep the last movie with the same title

I really like the Title "There and Back Again," and I hope they put this as the title for film 3. I would rather that than "The Battle of Five Armies." I don't know why but it just seems less fitting for the end title to the overall story.

As far as film 2 title goes I don't care as much. I kind of like "The Desolation of Smaug," because it doesn't really tell you what happens except that they will at some point be at Smaug's desolation.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 13 2012, 5:32am


Views: 882
I really think

That film 1 is going to end earlier than most people here expect.

My guess is that it will end with the eagle-assisted escape from the goblins and wargs. This provides for a powerful climax and ending.

The Goblin King is dead, Bilbo spars with Gollum, Bilbo acquires the Ring and escapes Goblin Town, the company is assailed by goblins and wargs intent on revenge, and the eagles arrive to fly the company away to safety, with Mirkwood on the horizon, and the Lonely Mountain far, far away in the blue distance.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 13 2012, 7:15am


Views: 862
It might be a powerful ending

But would not have much in it! The exact same thing can be said with either the spider attack in Mirkwood and their escape in the barrels.

There is no way film 1 can end before Mirkwood.

Tongue


redgiraffe
Rohan

Aug 13 2012, 10:05am


Views: 882
Quite possible

On the one hand I have a similar feeling to DanielLB that if it ends with the eagles there isn't really much room for much story before that.

But on the other hand it all depends on how lengthy they decide to make some parts. For all we know, the battle in Golbin town and the warg attack could be one long extended battle that climax's at the end of the warg attack. I wouldn't be surprised at all if PJ did something like that. And I agree that it is indeed quite climactic.

That might leave a lot for film two if the climax were to be the death of smaug. But...
This is my opinion, 'cause I know yours will probably be different, SA: But when I first finished watching TTT I thought there was no way PJ would be able to cram all of the ending material from TTT book into the ROTK movie. But I think he did a good job of that and it actually made sense with the time frame.

So how all of this works is just going to come down to how PJ does it.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 13 2012, 10:17am


Views: 849
This is a good point


Quote
But on the other hand it all depends on how lengthy they decide to make some parts. For all we know, the battle in Golbin town and the warg attack could be one long extended battle that climax's at the end of the warg attack. I wouldn't be surprised at all if PJ did something like that. And I agree that it is indeed quite climactic.



I had never thought of it being lengthy. Could easily be changed though. I'd still feel better though if film 1 ended in Mirkwood. Would feel like they've made some progress. And the structure isn't too disimilar to The Fellowship of the Ring.

Rivendell Fellowship = Rivendell Dwarves
Mines of Moria = Gollum and Goblin-town
Lothlorien = Beorn and the Eagles
Breaking of the Fellowship = Attack of the spiders

Not exactly the same, but very similar structure.



dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 13 2012, 12:41pm


Views: 890
Another possible end-point....

I think, is the moment when they reach the edge of Mirkwood and have to say goodbye to Gandalf, send back their ponies and set off on foot into the forest. It always reads to me like the end of one phase of the adventure and spring-board into the next.


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell


Aug 13 2012, 1:09pm


Views: 809
Maybe

Im still really hoping for film 1 to end with th barrels out of bond sequence. I guess all our questions will have been answered two years from now. So long to wait!!


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 13 2012, 1:10pm


Views: 839
There would have to be an action sequence before though? /

 


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell


Aug 13 2012, 1:34pm


Views: 836
Well

There's the excitement of breaking out of jail, probably some kind of rapids, and then by the looks of it one of the dwarfes (Kili I think) was practising shooting arrows from his barrel. Maybe there is a goblin attack along the way?

I doubt that they're going to remain sealed in their barrels for the whole trip down to Lake Town as if so there would be no point in filming anyone other than Bilbo and thirteen barrels floating down the river. If they were in the barrels then we wouldn't see them anyway.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 13 2012, 1:43pm


Views: 851
I was replying to dormouse :-)

I want film 1 to either end with the spider attack, or their escape in barrels.


TheBeerBaron
Rivendell


Aug 13 2012, 1:47pm


Views: 823
Ah I see

That could be very exciting


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 13 2012, 2:13pm


Views: 873
Well, yes, I suppose....

Depends how active they make Beorn! Wink

Or maybe slip in some action relating to Dol Guldur - a message reaching Gandalf about it which tells him he needs to leave....

Seriously, I wasn't saying they will use it. I doubt it's even likely. Just that it's a place I might choose to break the story. Barrels seems to have been the end they were planning and I still think that's quite likely. If they do end with that then I suspect that at some point they'll flash back to the forest edge and show what happened next from Gandalf's point of view.

Of course, the beauty of your spider idea is that we get the spiders over with in the first film (though I'd rather have something after that, to take the memory away!)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Aug 13 2012, 2:42pm


Views: 825
I really think

that you are wrong. I believe that the first film will remain intact and will be completed as planned.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 13 2012, 3:00pm


Views: 767
They could change events...

And have Gandalf leave the Dwarves (either completely, or for a couple of days) while he goes of to find Radagast and Dol Guldur. Not that I like the idea, but they could do something to make the end more eventful.


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 13 2012, 3:16pm


Views: 805
Well yes, but then...

... no one here can really predict the changes they might make. I can only guess from what's in the book.

One thing, though. Wherever film one ends (same goes for film two) I hope they can manage to make it feel like a real ending. One of the oddest things to me about 'Deathly Hallows' part one was that I had no idea beforehand where the break would come, couldn't sense it coming in the writing and even when it did it didn't feel like an end. Suddenly there were the credits - and I remember thinking 'oh, is that over, then...' It all seemed very inconclusive, which surely wasn't the effect they were intending.

I don't anticipate this as a problem with 'The Hobbit' because they were careful to steer each part towards a satisfying end, so you could leave the cinema feeling that you'd seen a complete film even though there was more story to come. I think that's important


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 13 2012, 4:24pm


Views: 766
Deathly Hallows


In Reply To
One of the oddest things to me about 'Deathly Hallows' part one was that I had no idea beforehand where the break would come, couldn't sense it coming in the writing and even when it did it didn't feel like an end. Suddenly there were the credits - and I remember thinking 'oh, is that over, then...' It all seemed very inconclusive, which surely wasn't the effect they were intending.



I have to disagree with that. That had to have been the effect that they were intending, odd as that is, because there simply was no ending. There was no real effort to make that into two separate films. It was one film that was just split into two.

On an even more off-topic note, I can never see your screen name without hearing Grace Slick's voice in my head. Not necessarily a bad thing, since she has a very good voice, and I like the song White Rabbit, quite a bit. But you would think after all this time that would no longer happen. But it does.


'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 13 2012, 5:54pm


Views: 725
Oh, fair enough...

.. if that was the effect they intended, then it was a resounding success! But it seemed very odd to me at the time.

(And I'm glad it's not a bad association!)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 13 2012, 11:31pm


Views: 826
There's lots in there

I can see dwarven history, the Shire scenes, the trollshaws, initial run in with Radagast, Rivendell, the White Council meeting, the trek to the Misty Mountains, the stone giant sequence, an extended Goblin town sequence where we meet the main villains of film one, a prolonged "death of the Great Goblin" scene, Riddles in the Dark, an extended sequence of Bilbo escaping from Goblin Town, the aftermath of his escape and return to the dwarf company (he does have to find Gandalf and the dwarves, after all), the pursuit by the wargs and goblins, the fiery standoff in the treetops, and the final dramatic rescue by the eagles (likely due to Radagast's assistance), as easily taking up two and a half hours of screentime, if not three.

The reason we think "there's not a lot there" is because we are used to thinking about how short the Hobbiton-to-Frying Pan Into the Fire segment is in the book. But in terms of actual substance, a whole lot actually happens, and PJ added Dol Guldur stuff will fill that out even more.

I am quite convinced that film 1 will end with the eagle rescue.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 13 2012, 11:39pm


Views: 799
It just doesn't *feel* like it could be a self contained (good and successful) film

One part of it is down to the natural break in the book. The second part is because I'm so use to thinking that the duology was going to be split with the barrel escape. It's always seemed like a good idea. Now there are three films, I still think it's a good place to end film 1. I also don't think the Goblintown sequence should be the "main battle" of film 1. The spider sequence, and the separation of the Dwarves seems a lot better - more terrifying.

In terms of everything you suggested, yes it is a lot. But to me, that seems like everything up until Lothlorien in The Fellowship of the Ring.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 13 2012, 11:45pm


Views: 734
Right

And there really is too much in Fellowship.

Think of the jarringly quick transitions from the Shire to Bree, from Hollin to Caradhras, from Caradhras to the Mines of Moria, and from Moria to Lothlorien.

It really is like hopping along stones across a river. Makes Middle Earth seem quite small.

This is why I am excited about the Hobbit in three films. They will breathe more.


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 13 2012, 11:49pm


Views: 608
True ... true

But which scenes should receive the most amount of screentime?

In film 1, all I can think of is Riddles in the Dark and the spider attack. There's no need to linger at Bag End, or Rivendell or with the eagles. It might make Middle-earth feel small, but it will do ... it's a film!


imin
Valinor


Aug 13 2012, 11:54pm


Views: 658
This is where i initially thought the break was going to be

when they announced they were making two films. I think its a good place to end always have. I think it gives more things for film 2 as well.

Saying that i would be surprised it will change from the initial plan of ending with them all escaping on barrels.

I think its more exciting now that we are unsure, something to look forward to rather than knowing everything about the film before it is seen, i am coming around to the three film side just for that, lol.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 13 2012, 11:55pm


Views: 593
I think

They should spend a lot of time on:

The Shire, a flashback to the demise of Erebor, the troll encounter, Rivendell, Goblin Town, Riddles, and Frying Pan.

The longest sequences out of these should be The Shire, Goblin Town/Riddles, and Frying Pan.

This would really make for a very full and exciting film, if I understand what PJ's doing here...


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 13 2012, 11:58pm


Views: 593
This is true imin


Quote
I think its more exciting now that we are unsure, something to look forward to rather than knowing everything about the film before it is seen, i am coming around to the three film side just for that, lol.


Though ... if it's been their plan all along to have 3 films, then the film 1 will stay the same Wink. Conspiracy Shocked.



DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 13 2012, 11:59pm


Views: 640
What would your climax be?

The Dwarves are rescued by the eagles, and dropped off at Carrock?


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 14 2012, 12:18am


Views: 573
I would leave them in the sky

Flying, and looking off into the distance, where we see Mirkwood, and way, way out there, the Lonely Mountain...


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Aug 14 2012, 1:25am


Views: 612
well

But then people will say...ei, why didnt they just drop them at the mountain? Just a 15 minute flight..Crazy

But i disagree with daniel...i still think you might be thinking in terms of book length...

Feel...dont think...use your instincts....let your imagination flow...Wink

The Shire and Rivendell sequences will by far be some of the longest! A lot happens!

Shire:

Pj needs to introduce the shire to the audience in a different way than he did on lotr...establish Bilbo's character, his role as a respectable hobbit within the hobbiton society, Gandalfs arrival, his attempts to kidnapp bilbo XD, the arrival of the dwarves, comedy, dinner, singing, dark business, flashbacks to dwarven history like erebor or dales fall or how thorin put tpgether this particular group of dwarves...

Contract, conversations, the next morning, his encounter with the dwarves, the journey begins, bilbos first travelling experiences with camp fire, horse riding, getting to know the dwarves, travelling through the shire, outskirts of Bree, the weather hills, establishing the bilbo and thorins initial role within the company and theri relationship, the dwarves telling bilbo tales of old....its a lot of stuff before trollshaws...

And, since pj is not good at making short movies Smile


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 14 2012, 9:45am


Views: 564
And Dol Guldur?

Then they're foreshadowing the two storylines. I quite like it Shelob'sAppetite ... Blush


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 14 2012, 9:47am


Views: 556
It's the same as the Ring though.

The eagles just want to get them to safety, apart from that they don't want much to with the Dwarves. If Galadriel can disappear and re-appear in different places, then she could take the Dwarves with her ... unless it's 1 person per ride.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Aug 14 2012, 12:27pm


Views: 573
Good point

And thanks!

I am reasonably confident that something along these lines is being planned.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Aug 14 2012, 12:53pm


Views: 540
yes

I know, its just im predicting, if its not explained, people commenting like that,,


DanielLB
Immortal


Aug 14 2012, 3:01pm


Views: 571
Even if the films doesn't end here

I hope we get these visual shots anyway.