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Researching THE FRODO FRANCHISE: Part 1, Off to Wellington without a Handkerchief



News from Bree
spymaster@theonering.net

Jul 26 2012, 1:15pm


Views: 3637
Researching THE FRODO FRANCHISE: Part 1, Off to Wellington without a Handkerchief

[Part 1 in a series from The Frodo Franchise Author Kristin Thompson]



Me and My Book

I'm a film historian by trade. I got my Ph.D. in film studies in 1977 and have written several textbooks and academic books on various topics in the field. In 2007, my book The Frodo Franchise: The Lord of the Rings and Modern Hollywood, by Kristin Thompson, came out from the University of California press. As we all wait for the release of the first part of The Hobbit, I thought some of you might be interested in some of my experiences while researching the book. I had a lot of access to the filmmakers for interviews and was given facilities tours during the last part of the post-production on The Return of the King.

I first conceived the book in 2002, when it became obvious to me that Peter Jackson's film (I call the three parts one film, as he does) was going to be very, very important historically for a wide variety of reasons. The technology (the techniques developed to animate Gollum, the selective digital color grading) would be revolutionary. The internet campaign was pioneering, as was the filmmaking team's approach to cooperating with the video-game designers. It was a big franchise film -- and a fantasy at that -- and yet it won the respect of critics and Academy-Award voters as no such film ever had. (The Fellowship of the Ring had won "only" four Oscars, but I knew even then that The Return of the King would be awarded lots.) Somebody should write a book about it, I thought. But probably nobody would, not the way it should be done, with interviews with the people involved. Not while the film was still in production. I concluded that it was up to me. Was it possible, though, to get the kind of access I would need? I set out to find out.

In January of 2003, through a mutual friend, I was put in touch with producer Barrie Osborne. Fortunately, he was interested in having such a book written. Without him, my project would have been dead in the water.

I originally hoped to get to Wellington while pick-ups were still being shot. It turned out not to be quite that easy. Barrie stuck by me through the eight long months that it took for New Line to consider my project. As they requested, I obtained letters from both the Tolkien Estate and Tolkien's publisher, HarperCollins, saying that I wasn't violating their trademarks and copyrights. I promised not to publish my book until after the three parts were out. (They obviously didn't know how long it would take me to write it and especially how slowly academic presses work!) Finally, in early September, I got the go-ahead from New Line, and Barrie said I could come to Wellington soon. The film was well into post-production, with special effects and sound-editing going on. Some people, especially the designers, whose work was largely done, might have time to talk to me. To me the crucial thing was that most of the crew members were still in town, many still working on The Return of the King. As soon as I got the word, I set about planning to go to Wellington.

This series will be my memoirs of the three research trips I took to New Zealand in 2003 and 2004, as well as other trips I took to Los Angeles, London, Copenhagen, and other places where people I needed to interview lived (including Ian McKellen!). After this initial entry, I won't go chronologically but by topics. I'll deal with things like the big spoilers I learned about (and kept to myself) and my talks with all the main designers. Yes, I also interviewed Peter, who generously gave me one hour, and Philippa Boyens and Richard Taylor and many others, some of whom you know from the wonderful supplements on the extended DVD editions.

The roughly three years I spent researching and writing The Frodo Franchise added up to one of the high points of my life, of course. Every single day I spent in Wellington, I thought, "How did I get here?!" In this series I hope to convey something of what it's like to fly to New Zealand and be able to talk to a lot of incredibly talented and friendly filmmakers and see the places where they work. As a scholar, I had been given an unprecedented opportunity. No other academic historian has ever been given such access to an epic film of this sort while it was still in production. For a fan, it was a dream come true.

Preparations on Short Notice

After my eight of waiting and going through the necessary formalities, never being quite sure that the project would ever happen, in early September of 2003 I suddenly faced the prospect of going to Wellington in less than four weeks. I didn't have a place to stay or any idea of whom among the crew I might be able to interview.

These problems were solved by the fact that Barrie arranged for me to have a point person for my stay: the unit publicist, Melissa Booth. As an academic researcher, I had never before had a point person, and after dealing with Melissa, I wish I could have one for every project. (You can see Melissa efficiently handling a small on-set press junket in one of the King Kong "Production Diaries.") My first question when I emailed her was about a hotel. She recommended the Victoria Court Motor Lodge, where some members of the cast and crew had been occasionally been put up.

Not the major talent, obviously; it's not that fancy a place. But it turned out to be a very comfortable and conveniently located base of operations. In fact, I've stayed there on all four visits to Wellington. (I made a quick nostalgic trip for a few days in 2007 when my husband David Bordwell and I had month-long fellowships at the University of Auckland.)

Going to New Zealand at that point was something of a gamble. I didn't know whether I would be able to talk to any of the filmmakers. I figured at the worst I could get some interviews with people from government organizations that in one way or another were connected with the LOTR films. Those appointments I could at least make in advance. By the time I set out, I had arranged to talk with executives at Film New Zealand, the New Zealand Film Commission, Tourism New Zealand, and others. All extremely helpful -- and fortunately I ended up getting several filmmaker interviews and facilities tours on that trip as well.

I immediately booked for a three-week stay in one of the Victoria Court's "executive" rooms, which basically added a bedroom onto the usual studio room. For such a long visit that proved very useful, since I could spread my work out in the main room.

My three weeks of lead time were spent on such tasks as acquiring a professional-standard digital recorder. You could probably actually record sound for LOTR on that machine, but I figured the expense was worth it. After all, my project lived and died by those interviews. It turned out to be very useful, since I recorded some of my interviewees while sitting in a crowded restaurant or with construction going on right outside the window. Only once did some brief passages get lost. I talked with stunt performers Kirk Maxwell and Sharon James in a coffee shop, and occasionally the espresso machine's wooshing defeated even my sophisticated microphone. Prior to my departure for Wellington I also bought my first digital camera. Although I was, of course, never allowed to use it inside the filmmaking facilities, I did take several of the illustrations that ended up in the book. Still, I won't have very many exciting photos to illustrate my series. You'll probably see quite a few frames from the extended-edition DVD supplements, since a lot of what I saw ended up in them.

The Trip

Booking my flights to Wellington was an elaborate procedure. I live in Madison, Wisconsin, which is "flyover territory" in the U.S. You can't get directly to many places, so it took me two flights just to reach Los Angeles, where I would catch my Air New Zealand flight to Auckland.

I have to 'fess up that I flew business class every time I went to New Zealand. That first time, I estimated that my research might take three weeks, but I knew I also needed flexibility. If I got chances to interview people after I was scheduled to return home, I had to be able to change my bookings easily and on short notice. That ended up being a wise move, since on two of my three visits, I stayed an extra week and got some important interviews. As you'll see in the course of this series, the help and cooperation I got from everybody associated directly or indirectly with the film was extraordinary.

Auckland has the only airport in New Zealand that you can fly into from the U.S. The Air New Zealand flight from Los Angeles was twelve hours in those days and probably still is. The trip was wonderful, and Air New Zealand rapidly became my favorite airline. The country is only seven time zones away from Central Time, but it's very far south. I found to my delight that that particular combination allowed me somehow to pass through jetlag and come out the other side by the time we landed at 6 am, Sunday, September 28, in Auckland.

Once through passport control, I transferred to the domestic terminal via a handy shuttle-bus and took a one-hour flight to Wellington. The airport there has a single runway, stretching from just south of Evans Bay on the north to Lyall Bay in the south. Depending on the wind, you might land or take off in either direction, but both ways you come in low over water. That's Lyall Bay in the photo, and beyond it the Cook Strait, with one of the ferries headed for the South Island. The building in the foreground was at the time the headquarters for the film's production company, Three Foot Six. At the time I took that photo, the offices were full of, among other things, people mixing sound for The Return of the King.

Naturally as my flight was landing, I was thinking that this was the very airport that lay just over a ridge from the Stone Street Studios. (Part of the airport side of that ridge is in the foreground of the photo.) Famously the non-soundproofed walls of those studios meant that noise from planes landing and taking off had led to the periodic interruption of shooting. Probably the very plane I was on had often done so. The whole thing became a little more real to me. The giant figure of Gollum reaching for the Ring, which had originally graced the facade of the Embassy Theatre for the premiere of The Two Towers, was in those days still sitting atop the main airport building (see below). I had arrived, not in Tolkien's Middle-earth, but in Peter Jackson's.

Settling in

To get to the Victoria Court, I took one of those small buses that deliver multiple passengers to various hotels and inns. Being one of the last to be dropped off, I got a quick tour of the waterfront of Wellington's beautiful Lambton Harbour, a glimpse of Te Papa Museum, where the big touring exhibition of LOTR artifacts originated, and a look at the downtown area.

The Victoria Court caters primarily to couples and families who are touring New Zealand on their own, and there were often recreational vehicles parked in the lot. Mainly they were staying there before catching the ferry to the South Island. At the time, Wellington wasn't considered much of a tourist attraction. Sure, that area is gorgeous, but much of the rest of the country is even more gorgeous. Things have sure changed since!

After unpacking, I checked out my neighborhood. There was a handy local chicken take-out place half a block away (now, alas, closed), and a little beyond that stretched Cuba Street, that funky area of town with nice restaurants and shops where the cast had often hung out. All of downtown was a short walk away.

The Victoria Court's rooms all have little kitchens, so I figured I could cook for myself most nights. Who wants to eat dinners alone in a restaurant every night for three weeks? Plus I needed that time most days to labels my interview diskettes and, most of all, plan for my upcoming interviews, many of which were scheduled on a day's notice. In those days I had to go to a local internet gaming establishment to get onto the internet and do my email. The gentleman who ran the establishment and took in the money for hourly rental listened to the tale of my project and was most hospitable during all three of my stays in Wellington. Over the next few days, I discovered the ubiquitous New World grocery stores, and laid in supplies. I also walked past the Embassy Theatre, which at that point was closed for the renovations that would make it fit to house the world premiere of The Return of the King, only two months away.

Meeting with Melissa

Any worries I might have had about getting some interviews with the filmmakers were soon set to rest. On 11 am on Monday morning, the day after I arrived, I met with Melissa Booth at a coffee shop near the Victoria Court. I don't think she had been told much about my project, so I showed her an outline of the chapters and told her a bit about what I needed to know. Although I'm sure Melissa had little experience dealing with academic types like me, she quickly grasped what I was up to. Immediately she made up a basic chapter-by-chapter list of the people I should talk to and promised to start making appointments for me to interview them.

Within hours Melissa had set up my first meeting for the very next day. That was pretty easy, actually, since it was with a colleague who shared her office at the Three Foot Six building: Judy Alley, the merchandising coordinator. For a project concerning the whole franchise, Judy was obviously a crucial figure.

Melissa soon set up some additional interviews for later that week. Eventually, though, her duties as unit publicist loomed, and she just gave me the contact information for the people on that initial list and let me set up my own appointments.

That proved a smooth process. Somehow Barrie must have conveyed the message to the whole crew that the production was cooperating with me on my book. I never had anyone evidence the slightest bit of reluctance to talk with me.

To be continued



(This post was edited by Silverlode on Jul 26 2012, 7:24pm)


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 26 2012, 7:24pm


Views: 2633
Very interesting!

I'm really looking forward to the rest of the series!

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


pasi
The Shire

Jul 26 2012, 8:03pm


Views: 2640
work, work, work

A nice piece of investigation and hard work.
As usual Kristim Thompson makes the diference.
Please continue with this articles, a good break in the avalance of hobbit news.


jschomburg
Rivendell

Jul 26 2012, 8:52pm


Views: 2657
Agree with previous post, nice distraction from Hobbit events, and

fun to revisit the some of the production saga of LOTR. Read The Frodo Franchise a few years ago and really enjoyed it. Looking forward to a "making of" the book if this is what it may be. Also enjoy Ms. Thompson's posts here at The One Ring.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 26 2012, 10:17pm


Views: 2650
Thank you Kristin



"She stood there on the platform, waving her handkerchief."

-- Frontispiece The Little Colonel at Boarding-School (1904) by Annie Fellows Johnston


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jul 26 2012, 10:18pm)


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Jul 27 2012, 12:03am


Views: 2610
Thanks, Pasi!

And to others who have posted positive reactions to the beginning of the series. Obviously the fact that The Hobbit looms in the future makes me think back with great nostalgia over a wonderful period of my life (full, as you say, of work, but very much worth it). If these posts offer a little moment of calm in the midst of the excitement of all the Hobbit news (especially lately!), all the better.

I'll keep an eye on the Message Board threads attached to these posts, and if anyone has questions, I would be happy to try and answer them.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 27 2012, 12:44am


Views: 2596
A very interesting beginning

I find the scholarly angle a new and refreshing one, having done quite a bit of qualitative research of the sort in other fields.

Thank you, Dr. Thompson!


pasi
The Shire

Jul 27 2012, 11:06am


Views: 2614
Barrie W. Osborne

With your post (specialy in the end of it) we realize the importance of Mr. Barrie W. Osborne in all LOTR project production.
He understand the importance of the books like yours for the movies and for the industry.
A question:
We all now that Tolkien Estate doesnt have a very good relations with the P. Jackson movies, do you have any kind of problems with them in the preparations of you book?
(sorry for my not so good english).
Best
pasi


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Jul 27 2012, 1:55pm


Views: 2613
Absolutely true about Barrie

I can never emphasize enough how crucial his support was for my book. Those who have read it may have noticed that I dedicated the book to Barrie. I got to watch him in action as a producer a few times, and of course, he's tremendous at that. He held a tremendously complicated project together and made it happen on time--which as we all know was very difficult for the third film especially.

As I mentioned in my post, New Line required me to get letters from the Tolkien Estate and HarperCollins, saying that they understood that my book would not violate their trademarks and copyrights. I wrote to them, emphasizing that I am an academic film historian and that I felt the film--whatever one thought of it--was going to be very historically important. I had published one essay on THE HOBBIT in MYTHLORE, so I think the Tolkien Estate realized that I was seriously interested in the books as well. They very kindly sent the required letter, as did HarperCollins. That was a big hurdle, and if they hadn't agreed, that would have killed the project. As at many points in the book project, I was very lucky.

(Your English is quite good--certainly very understandable!)


zarabia
Tol Eressea


Jul 29 2012, 7:23am


Views: 2553
Awesome!

BTW, why did I think that The Frodo Franchise was yet to come out??? I'm definitely putting it at the top of my list!


(This post was edited by zarabia on Jul 29 2012, 7:24am)


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Jul 29 2012, 2:40pm


Views: 2596
It wasn't exactly in every bookshop

University presses are seldom known for their marketing and distribution strengths. I love the design the University of California Press came up with and the ability to use color illustrations and so on, but it wasn't very high-profile. I must say that TORn gave me a lot of support in getting the word out, as did some other websites.

I hope you enjoy the book, zarabia! I have to say that I'm very proud of it, and a huge amount of credit goes not just to Barrie but to my fabulous interviewees. With all the information supplied by the filmmakers, the game-makers at Electronic Arts, the executives of tour companies and government agencies in New Zealand, and others, I could hardly go wrong.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Jul 29 2012, 3:07pm


Views: 2556
I _really_ need to get a copy of this book -

- and your next one - when is the next one due out, by the way?

.


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Jul 29 2012, 3:48pm


Views: 2559
You definitely do need a copy, geordie :)

If by next one you mean my book analyzing THE HOBBIT and THE LORD OF THE RINGS novels, there's no set timeline. I'm giving a compressed version of the chapter on anachronism at the "Return of the Ring" event--two weeks from Thursday! But I haven't had much time to work on it this year. Textbook revision (new edition just out this month) and Egyptological work have dominated. Plus I have two LOTR-film-related pieces to write yet this year. But I hope next year to make some real progress. I don't have a publisher lined up yet, so there's no contractual deadline. This is the problem with wearing several academic hats.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Jul 29 2012, 3:50pm


Views: 2584
I think the Tolkien Estate

often gets a bad press. It's unfortunate, and (I think) based on a misunderstanding of what an Estate is, why estates are set up, and what their duties and responsiblities are.

For example; many criticise the Tolkien Estate for not selling the film rights to Tolkien's works. Selling rights is not what the estate is for (AFAIK). There's also what seems to be an assumption that the Tolkien Estate exists in order to give permissions for material to be included in books. That's not so, either. If I were to write a book about JRR, and apply to the Estate for permissions, I would not do so assuming that they _have_ to grant them. Nor would I get upset if the answer is no.

Something that many commentators don't seem to grasp is that the Tolkien Estate was set up by JRR himself - it's his Estate - and the executors of his estate are carrying out his wishes as seems best to them. My wife and I have had the pleasure of meeting several members of Tolkien's family and other members of the Tolkien estate, and they are thoughtful, generous people - not at all like what some on the interweb seem to think. The legal arm of the Estate - Cathleen Blackburn - comes across as thoughtful and generous-minded too, and thoroughly professional.

The Estate has various duties, and can only deal with the requests they receive in one of two ways - yes, or no. Sometimes people try and circumvent the proper channels - I recall one time at the Tolkien Society's Oxonmoot weekend, when the Professor's daughter Priscilla used to meet 'first-timers' at lunch on the Saturday. Priscilla is a lovely person, always happy to talk about her father and his works; but sometimes people try and take advantage. The format of the 'meet and greet' session used to be that first-timers would form an orderly queue to say hello to Priscillla personally, and to share a few words with her. On this occassion, an American chappie walked over with his hand outstretched in greeting, and declared loudly 'Miss Tolkien, I've travelled four and a half thousand miles to interest you in...' - I don't recall exactly what it was he'd travelled four and a half thousand miles for, but I'd have thought that anyone with a head for business would know that this is not the way to approach the estate.

The proper way is that used by Kristin Thompson, and also by Michael Drout - Drout asked for permission to use some of Tolkien's unpublished material in his doctoral dissertation (of which I have a copy). Drout's dissertation includes an appendix with copies of the correspondence between himself and Cathleen Blackburn, acting on behalf of the Tolkien estate. The exchange is courteous and professional, and Ms Blackburn passes on her clients' best wishes for Drout's studies. So you see, sometimes the answer is yes...

.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Jul 29 2012, 4:20pm


Views: 2534
Hmm..

academic work on Tolkien - giving talks at Loughborough... Egyptology! I'm a plain sort of bloke, and normally I don't go in for the little green-eyed god of envy; but honestly - I'm only flesh and blood, after all..

But seriously - (more or less) - do have a wonderful time at Loughborough. I wish me and mrs g. could be there.

Smile

(and, I Will get a copy of your book!)


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Jul 29 2012, 4:52pm


Views: 2567
I completely agree with you, geordie

I dealt with Cathleen Blackburn during the time when I was trying to get the clearance letters from the Tolkien Estate and HarperCollins, and she was quite friendly and helpful. I also met Christopher in 1987 when he came to the Marquette University conference to celebrate the 50th anniversary of THE HOBBIT's publication. He, too, was friendly and asked for a copy of the paper I presented. That slight acquaintance, I infer, may have helped me in my request for the letters I needed.

But quite apart from the Tolkien Estate's willingness or lack thereof to sell the film rights for THE SILMARILLION and other posthumous Tolkien books, we should remember that it's not as if they've turned down any such requests. No such requests, to the best of everyone's knowledge, have been made. I doubt they ever will be. I think THE SIMARILLION, taken as a whole, is unfilmable--far more so than Christopher assumed LOTR to be. Individual episodes could be filmed, and of course one such episode exists now as a self-contained novel, THE CHILDREN OF HURIN. That's more filmable, in terms of its narrative structure and content, but it is as unremittingly grim a fictional book as I have ever read. (I admire it a great deal, but still.) I believe that no film production company that could afford to make such a film would even consider such a thing.

So those who complain that the Estate is somehow blocking the production of more Tolkien-derived films are really doing so for no reason. It's all speculation about something that most probably will not happen.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Jul 31 2012, 6:16am


Views: 2545
yes -

mind you, the notion that the Estate will eventually sell the film rights is one that won't go away - just the other day, one of our fellow TorNsibs ventured the opinion that 'cash still counts' and that the Estate might change its mind when they see how well the Hobbit movies do. (this is a paraphrase; sorry if I'm remembering incorrectly).

I'd like to talk about the phrase 'cash still counts' - I think that's to misunderstand the people who make up the Tolkien estate, and what the functions of that estate are. (see my post above). I don't think cash is the big deciding factor for them. Odd though it may sound. Smile

There's a Chair at Oxford called the 'J.R.R. Tolkien Professorship of English Literature and Language' , which was established years before the movies were thought of. I think the Tolkien estate has somethingto do with that. Anyway; to my mind, Tolkien's intellectual legacy seems to me to be uppermost in the minds of his Estate. not mere money.


(This post was edited by geordie on Jul 31 2012, 6:20am)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 31 2012, 7:06am


Views: 2499
IMO

The story of Beren and Luthien, the Children of Hurin, Tuor, Feanor, the narrative of the Faithful of Numenor, including Sauron's arrival and deceit, the demise of Gondolin, etc, could all make excellent films if done properly. There's love, tragedy, epic grandeur, monsters, and good and evil in all of it, and that's just what general audiences like.

I think eventually, a studio (likely Warner Bros.) will seek out the rights for the Silmarillion, the Unfinished Tales, and the Children of Hurin,


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Jul 31 2012, 2:05pm


Views: 2535
When we speak of money

We should recall that the money wouldn't just be going into the pockets of Tolkien's descendents. There is the Tolkien Trust, the charitable wing of his legacy, which is involved in supporting various causes. I'm sure that, given the amount of money that continues to come in from the books, members of the family would not be put into a position of needing for personal reasons to sell off film rights, willingly or not. But it's possible that in order to keep the charitable side of the brand (which may involve that professorship) thriving, at some point the idea of selling film rights might be attractive. Not that I think it likely that the film rights would be sold, but if they were, we can't assume that the move would be mercenary on the part of some family member or other.


Lurker in the Dark
The Shire

Aug 5 2012, 4:34am


Views: 2481
More please

Much looking forward to this series. I hope they will not be long in coming.

Kristin, in choosing to film 'The Hobbit' in 3D (let alone 48fps) PJ is again making history/breaking new ground/taking the film industry by the neck and giving it a good shake, and I suggest this, too, deserves the real-time attention of an academic to record the process. Any chance it could be you?


Lurker in the Dark
The Shire

Aug 5 2012, 4:43am


Views: 2501
Born of Hope


In Reply To
So those who complain that the Estate is somehow blocking the production of more Tolkien-derived films are really doing so for no reason. It's all speculation about something that most probably will not happen.


Yet I've just come across reference to a film "Born of Hope" of which I know next to nothing, but believe it deals with the story of Aragorn's parents, Arathorn and Gilraeth. Was this approved by the Estate?

I believe Tolkien himself wanted his writings to become an inspiration for a whole mythos, and am sure he would not have wanted to stop anyone using his ideas in any creative form. Yes, he himself must always be acknowledged as the ultimate source, and where done commercially the estate is entitled to some reward but I would be saddened to learn they were being obstructive.


Lurker in the Dark
The Shire

Aug 5 2012, 4:54am


Views: 2498
Born of Hope

Sorry, that's "Born of Hope" and is available here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qINwCRM8acM

Unfortunately my New Zealand internet connection isn't up to watching or downloading it - Kristin I can sympathise with your having to use an Internet Cafe in Wellington for your emails as late as 2004. Stephen Fry wasn't talking out of the back of his neck when he had his rant at the state of New Zealand's internet.


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Aug 5 2012, 2:52pm


Views: 2473
Tolkien fanfilms and rights

Born of Hope is one of the two best-known fanfilms, the other being The Hunt for Gollum. I don't know whether the Born of Hope people contacted the Estate. The director of The Hunt for Gollum said this in an interview:

We got in touch with Tolkien Enterprises and reached an understanding with them that as long as we are completely non-profit then we're okay. We have to be careful not to disrespect their ownership of the intellectual property. They are supportive of the way fans wish to express their enthusiasm.

Tolkien Enterprises, owned by Hollywood independent producer Saul Zaentz, controls the underlying performance rights for The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings (though not the distribution rights for The Hobbit). He licenses them to organizations that want to make films (e.g., currently New Line) and stage plays (the producers of the play The Lord of the Rings). Thus the Tolkien Estate and HarperCollins have no direct control over the film rights to these works, though of course they do retain film rights to all of Tolkien's other published and unpublished works.

I frankly was rather surprised that Tolkien Enterprises would explicitly sanction a fanfilm, even a non-profit one. But they presumably think that such films promote interest in Tolkien's work and thus are of some small benefit to the Estate, HarperCollins, and Tolkien Enterprises.

The family is certainly aware of them. For example, The Hunt for Gollum is being shown at next weeks "The Return of the Ring" event in England (put on by The Tolkien Society, the main British fan group), with the filmmakers present to answer questions. Simon Tolkien is also scheduled to appear. So obviously these and other fanfilms are not being forced to keep a very low profile. If the filmmakers attempted to charge admission, that would be another matter, but the films are free for viewing on the internet and in fan venues.

Technically they might be able to charge admission up to the point where the costs of making the film were paid off, but not beyond. That has often been the assumption with fanzines printed on paper, which have been sold at cost. My impression, though, is that so far the makers of the films and their friends and enthusiastic fans have put up the money to make the films without any expectation of getting the money back.

It's also notable that both these films are genuine attempts to create serious dramatic narratives with fairly good production values rather than cheap knock-offs. Like serious fanfiction, they attempt to fill out elements of the LOTR story that Tolkien mentions only briefly and to do so with respect for the original. I'm sure this has something to do with the tolerance shown by Tolkien Enterprises.


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Aug 5 2012, 3:35pm


Views: 2483
Believe me,

I have been trying for years to get permission to do a second book, concentrating on how digital technology has affected the way teams of filmmakers work together. I have hit a brick wall on both the parts of the filmmakers and of Warner Bros. It's a real pity and just underscores what I often say: that Barrie Osborne's interest in my book was the crucial factor in my getting access. At this point I have two major projects in progress, one my book for formal analysis of The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings, and one a big book on Egyptian statuary of the Amarna period. I'm so involved with those that I doubt I would have time to do a book on the Hobbit film. That said, if somehow a miracle happened and I got permission, I suspect I'd make time. Wink


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 6 2012, 12:30pm


Views: 2530
As Kristen says

the Tolkien estate doesn't hold the movie rights to TH and LotR, and so doesn't have anything to do with fan films such as Born of Hope. (BTW; Tolkien Enterprises is now called Middle-earth Enterprises).

"I believe Tolkien himself wanted his writings to become an inspiration for a whole mythos, and am sure he would not have wanted to stop anyone using his ideas in any creative form. Yes, he himself must always be acknowledged as the ultimate source, and where done commercially the estate is entitled to some reward but I would be saddened to learn they were being obstructive. "

There's a couple of common misconceptions here - first, Tolkien was very aware of his rights as copyright holder to his works, and didn't take kindly to the idea of them being messed with. And the Tolkien estate was set up by JRR himself, to carry out his wishes after his death. Far from being obstructive, thanks to the Tolkien Estate more of Tolkien's works have been published since his death than during his lifetime.


(This post was edited by geordie on Aug 6 2012, 12:31pm)


Lurker in the Dark
The Shire

Aug 7 2012, 5:24am


Views: 632
Messed with?

When does 'inspired by' become plagiarism? And what might JRRT have regarded as 'messing with' his ideas rather than building on them?

Sounds as if you think JRRT would not have enjoyed my "Forgotten History of the Shire' which includes the Peasant's Revolt of SR 1165 - put down with extreme prejudice by the Big Six Hobbit Land-owners supported by mercenary 'peace-keepers' from outside, the Buckland Clearances of SR1208 when the Brandybucks enclosed all their estates forcing almost all their Hobbit tenants to migrate to the abortive attempt to found a Hobbit colony on the north shore of Lake Evendun (few survived the mid-winter treck remembered as the Great Dying, and fewer still the starvation, disease and constant dwarf raids of the Colony's short existence) or the horrors of the Dire Famine of SR 1347-9 resulting from the arrival of potato blight, when many of the "well-to-do" Hobbits including the Sackville-Bagginses chose to sell the corn grown on their estates to an almost equally desperate Dale at extortionate prices rather than make it available to the Shire's food kitchens for destitute hobbits.


Lurker in the Dark
The Shire

Aug 7 2012, 5:57am


Views: 599
A most important book

Kristin, thanks for your extensive replies.

I think a book is important as I agree with the view expressed on this site:

http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2012/08/05/60390-hobbit-3d-48fps-biggest-industry-change-since-talkies

and would go futher - I think the future of cinema itself (or whatever you call them in the States) depends on the success of the Hobbit. If 'The Hobbit' fails Hollywood and its ilk will be increasingly reduced to producing films for TV, with all its limitations as to production finance, format, picture-size, advertising links and sponsorship, generic direction and circumscribed running time - and who is going to pay to see such a film in a cinema when they can see it for free at home.

Here in New Zealand few small towns now have cinemas, although their shells can be still be seen in main streets containing bingo halls or the occasional amateur theatrical production. Even the moderate-sized town closest to me with its struggling multiplex I know is having to very carefully weigh up the economics of upgrading to the gear needed to show 'The Hobbit' as Peter Jackson intended. That it is even considering the cost is a result of the success of 'The Lord of the Rings' and what it knows will be a local demand to see 'The Hobbit'. But what then?

If 'The Hobbit' works, not as a fantasy story of a quest in a magical realm but as a high-definition 3-D cinematic experience as amazing as being able to actually hear the actors speak and things blow up, it will create a demand for more of the same TV cannot match, and 'going to the cinema' will again become as special and unique an experience as going to a live opera, orchestral concert or play. LotR has merely prepared the ground for giving this throw of the dice a chance by making more people want to see a film, and need to go back to the cinema after an absence of perhaps of years in order to do so. If PJ fails to leverage that experience to make the film-going public thirst for more of the same I fear 'cinema' as an experience to equal the performance of a live orchestra as opposed to playing a CD at home, will be gone.

Succeed or fail, 'The Hobbit' will become a matter for film history even more so than 'Rings', and needs documenting accordingly.


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Aug 7 2012, 3:46pm


Views: 602
I'm afraid I have to disagree

I don't think the future of the cinema rests on whether The Hobbit succeeds. The future of high frame rates rests on it to some extent, though if Cameron carries through with shooting the Avatar sequels at 60fps, that could make the technology a success even if The Hobbit fails. It's quite interesting that the film will be available in six different formats, though I'm sure in most towns there will only be one or two available. But people will be "voting" on 48fps and 3D by buying tickets. For most 3D films this year and last, the proportion of tickets sold for 3D screenings has continued to dwindle. That's especially true for children's and family films, and The Hobbit falls into the latter category. I don't know if the theaters plan to charge extra for 48fps 2D screenings. I'd bet not many people would choose that option if so.

I should say that there is virtually no chance that The Hobbit will fail. If Warner Bros. didn't have absolute confidence in it, they would not have OKed a third film before the first one is released. I personally think that with the huge publicity the film has gotten and will continue to get, plus the quality we've seen in the trailer and preview footage, there's no reason it should fail. (Did anyone who saw the trailers for John Carter really think it would succeed?)

But even with no guarantee that The Hobbit will be a success, Hollywood studios are behaving as usual. Universal is planning sequels to Snow White and the Huntsman, Ted, and the recent American Pie reboot. Fox plans a Prometheus sequel. A sequel to The Amazing Spider-Man is due from Sony in May, 2014. Sony also plans another Men in Black film. Disney has five Marvel-comics-based superhero films in the pipelines. There is current consideration of a Magic Mike sequel. No Brave sequel has been announced, but the sequel to Monsters, Inc. comes out next summer.

If 48fps proves very popular, some of these films may be done using that technology. But Hollywood is not poised, holding its collective breath to see if The Hobbit succeeds before plunging ahead. They can't. It takes years to make the big, effects-heavy films, and they've got films in the pipeline now that will be coming out when the third Hobbit film does.

The real challenge is not for the production companies but, as you suggest from your own local experience in New Zealand, for the theaters. There's no question that a significant number of theaters have gone out of business as a result of not being able to switch over to digital projection, and more will do so as distributors finally stop making 35mm prints available altogether. If small theaters pay to upgrade to 48fps and 3D and then don't do good business with The Hobbit, some of them may well have to give up. That, however, won't have much impact on the production side, since Hollywood studios for the most part don't own theaters.


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 7 2012, 5:26pm


Views: 625
Yes, that's the sort of stuff I mean -

Smile -- just kiddin'.

But seriously - while no-one can say for certain what JRR might have felt about fan fiction, we can take an educated guess at his probable reactions to extensions of his writings by others by looking at examples from his letters.

Take for instance one which he wrote to Allen and Unwin, enclosing a letter from a fan who wanted to write a sequel to LotR. He called the person 'a young idiot', IIRC, and asked his publishers to deal with it because one time he got a similar letter 'from a young woman couched in the most obsequious tones, and when I replied in the negative got a vituperative response'. (paraphrase, from memory)

I know most fan-fiction isn't meant for commercial purposes - the wicked ol' Estate recognise this - see their FAQ page.

http://www.tolkienestate.com/faq/p_2/

As I said, Tolkien was very careful in matters pertaining to his copyright, and also the rights of his publishers. I recall some company wrote to tell him they were pleased to inform him that they were going to reprint his essay 'On Fairy-Stories'. He was not pleased - he enquired as to what rights they had to do so, and whether they'd asked permission from his publisher (in this case, the Oxford University Press).

And not everything has to do with copyright - he was also anxious that his words - esp. names - were not messed with, even (or especially) when they were reproduced legitimately. He was very vexed when Puffin Books 'corrected' his spelling when they published The Hobbit; changing 'Dwarves' to 'Dwarfs' and 'Elven' to 'Elfin'. They said they were following the Oxford English Dictionary, so there!

Tolkien growled, 'I wrote the Oxford English Dictionary'.

Tolkien was also vexed when translators of his works messed around with his made-up names. He wrote a translation guide for his publishers to send out to publishers in foreign countries. He was especially vexed with the Swedish translator Ohlmarks, who not only took liberties with Tolkien's prose but made up some 'biographical' notes to go in the front of the book. Tolkien erupted - the man was making stuff up.

Times don't change - just a couple of months ago, in an attempt to create a link between Tolkien and pJ a newspaper in NZ ran a story about how pJ's grandad's regiment was relieved by Tolkien's on the Somme in 1916. (or possibly the other way round). The report was totally wrong - Tolkien was in the 11th Lancashire Fusiliers, not the 1st. I think they got the name of Jackson senior's regiment wrong, too. This type of reporting - changing historical facts in order to fit their story - is not respectful to either of the two men.

I don't go in for fan fiction much, myself. (I've never found any I like). Maybe that's why I'm not keen on pJ's movies.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 8 2012, 2:24am


Views: 593
Sick burn!

'I wrote the Oxford English Dictionary.' In the history of comebacks, that has to be a one off...

Laugh

... and there is no finer dictionary than the OED. Geordie is Tolkien credited in any editions that you are aware of? I saw a pocket edition from around the '50s the other day and might just have to pick it up now.

aside -
Our Kristin Thompson would have a great comeback too if anyone tried to argue with her about the art of film... she could say "I wrote the book on Film Art." (Who can say that?!?) Not that she would, I'm sure.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Aug 8 2012, 2:26am)


Kristin Thompson
Rohan


Aug 9 2012, 1:18am


Views: 591
Thanks, SirDennisC!

Of course, I would never say I wrote the book on Film Art. If sufficiently provoked, I might say "I co-wrote the book on Film Art" (along with my husband, David Bordwell). We also co-wrote the book on Film History, so we've got all bases covered!

Have you read Peter Gilliver et al., The Ring of Words: Tolkien and The Oxford English Dictionary? It might sound deadly dull, but it's actually a charming and readable (and short) book on Tolkien's work on the Dictionary. Also on its influence on some of his word choices in his fictional writing. I thoroughly enjoyed it. Makes you want to go and read his entry on "walrus"!


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Aug 9 2012, 8:05am


Views: 575
... and thank you for the book suggestion! //

 


geordie
Tol Eressea

Aug 9 2012, 5:35pm


Views: 673
Um..

In reply to -

' is Tolkien credited in any editions that you are aware of?'

Not directly, as far as I know - that is, apart from the Supplement published by Robert Burchfield, where Tolkien is credited under the word 'hobbit'.

That being said; in 'The Ring of Words', the authors mention the Prefatory notes in the OED fascicle W-Wash in 1921. The words walnut, walrus and wampum were among the very few entries singled out as containing 'etymological facts or or suggestions not given in other dictionaries'. (Ring of Words, p.23)
High praise indeed! - though I don't think Tolkien's name is actually mentioned...

Take a look at the OED's webpage -

http://www.oed.com/public/contrib/contributors;jsessionid=799A3A60C2BD537C7BB0514D75A15358#tolkien

- it's fascinating.

.