The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Entertainment Weekly: "The Scroll" shows 10 hobbit scenes, dwarves, trolls, wargs, Beorn in bear form and more!



Carne
Tol Eressea

Jul 9 2012, 7:23pm


Views: 27455
Entertainment Weekly: "The Scroll" shows 10 hobbit scenes, dwarves, trolls, wargs, Beorn in bear form and more!

http://www.ew.com/...642_20610399,00.html


(This post was edited by Carne on Jul 9 2012, 7:24pm)


smokerings
Rivendell


Jul 9 2012, 7:27pm


Views: 19545
ZOINKS!!!!

Too much to digest!


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 9 2012, 7:27pm


Views: 20162
What is that thing

What is that thing watching them in the Trollshaw scene? Is it even an animal or just an oddly-shaped log or something?

And further confirmation that the film ends where (pretty much) everyone expects.

Edit: It is a troll; in sort of an odd position. All 3 of them are there.


(This post was edited by dave_lf on Jul 9 2012, 7:29pm)


smokerings
Rivendell


Jul 9 2012, 7:28pm


Views: 19338
They are trolls I believe


In Reply To
What is that thing watching them in the Trollshaw scene? Is it even an animal or just an oddly-shaped log or something?

And further confirmation that the film ends where (pretty much) everyone expects.


Look again to the left of that thing - they are trolls. Bert and company!


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 9 2012, 7:30pm


Views: 19312
Yup

Looks like I figured that out at the exact moment you tried to tell me. Smile


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 9 2012, 7:31pm


Views: 19587
Holy spoiler-ific!

Couple things:

Elrond examining Sting.

There is a barrel-rider at the far far right, ahead of the 13 dwarfs poking out of barrels.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Jul 9 2012, 7:35pm)


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 9 2012, 7:32pm


Views: 19882
Goblins?

Conspicuously absent is anything related to the goblin capture. Even in the fifteen birds shot, we only see (lupine!) wargs.


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 9 2012, 7:34pm


Views: 19519
Bridge

If that bridge at the end leads to the elvenking's halls, all 13 dwarves are crossing it together. Well; all 13 are crossing it together even if it leads somewhere else. Smile


imin
Valinor


Jul 9 2012, 7:37pm


Views: 19206
Thank you for posting

This looks awesome! I think this would make an incredible poster! Did notice as others pointed out the absence of the orcs/goblins. So epic though!


Magpie
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 7:44pm


Views: 19424
Heads Up: You can use control + to enlarge the image on your screen

For those that are going 'hun?'

hold your control button down and hit the key with + and = symbols on them. For Mac it's Command +.


I always want things bigger!


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Macfeast
Rohan

Jul 9 2012, 7:56pm


Views: 19047
As I was examing the picture...

...I was wondering why they couldn't just provide a higher resolution-picture, instead of going with the magnifying glass.

That's before I noticed the scroll bar underneath, and that there was more to the picture Laugh

Observations, from left to right:
Ori eating a sallad.
Best shot of Thorin's pre-Orcrist sword yet.
Heads poking out of the bags. Óin's head looks to be close enough to the pot for his hair to catch fire.
Dwarves walking up a hill; The Hobbit-equivalent of this?
Wolf-wargs, not hyena-wargs.
Gandalf and Beorn (also, eagles). Amazing. The locks of hair hanging in front of Beorn's ears somehow gives a slightly human appearance.
Thirteen dwarves crossing a bridge. The order of the scenes suggests that it might be the bridge to Thranduil's Halls.
Thirteen dwarves popping out of their barrels, Bilbo hanging on to his. Somehow, even in this position, Thorin manages to look composed and regal.
The Lonely Mountain, just below the "y" in "An unexpected journey"?


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Jul 9 2012, 8:00pm)


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 7:56pm


Views: 19161
too much spoiler for those who havn´t read the book dont you think?

Unsure


Magpie
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 7:58pm


Views: 19206
actually... not so sure it's enlarging... nevermind! //

 


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 9 2012, 8:05pm


Views: 18941
Pretty! :) //

 


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 9 2012, 8:12pm


Views: 18913
Very intriguing

and epic. Beorn, Gandalf, and the eagles really know how to create an electrifying scene.

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Jul 9 2012, 8:13pm


Views: 19328
Thanks for this

Great to see Beorn at last, and I like the look of the new wargs. They're much similar to the wargs that I imagined.
Still desperate to see Radagast, though!

"A Wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early: he arrives precisely when he means to!"-Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring.


Magpie
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 8:19pm


Views: 19140
psst to Radagast-Aiwendil

I think you're hitting 'reply' to the last post you see in flat mode. The thing is, that's not the person you're actually 'talking' to necessarily. For example, you said 'Thanks for this' to my post (me) but surely you meant to thank Carne. To do that, you should really hit reply to his post. (especially since the post you replied to offered nothing much to thank anyone for! I made a mistake and was retracting a statement.)

It may seem pointless if you only read in flat mode but lots of us read in threaded mode which shows sub-threads of distinct conversations. For those of us who read in threaded mode, a misplaced reply can get confusing. The best way to see the difference is to find the button on the top right of the page that says either "View Flat Mode" or "View Threaded Mode". Clicking it will let you see the 'other' way of showing the thread.

cheers. :-)


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Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 8:20pm


Views: 18954
Yes! Yes! Yes!

Wolves, NOT hyenas! Wolves!


Magpie
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 8:21pm


Views: 19509
I can tell you why

Reason #1 which is a small percentage of the reason (imo): it's fun. More fun than just a picture or series of pictures.

Reason #2 which is a larger percentage of the reason (imo): it's much harder for other sites to grab the images and post them on their blog/site.

maybe not a lot harder though... I've already captured the entire scroll. :-)

However, it's possible that the magnifying glass provide a better resolution of the image in a larger size than my enlarging the image as captured. If that makes sense.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Jul 9 2012, 8:23pm


Views: 18614
Ok thanks Magpie

I'm still relatively new to this, only joined last month, so will make a note of that for future reference.Smile

"A Wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early: he arrives precisely when he means to!"-Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 8:26pm


Views: 18902
That's because

The artist (or PJ and company) opted to show us Gollum's cave to represent that part in the story, rather than the Goblin fight. I wouldn't worry about it. That sequence is in!


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 9 2012, 8:27pm


Views: 19248
Gorgeous!

Dark wolves. Too perfect!


Magpie
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 8:30pm


Views: 19131
it's something most people don't catch on to at first

and we like to let people get their bearings before pointing it out.

So the fact that I did means you're now one of us! :-)

M


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 8:31pm


Views: 18974
Gandalf with Glamdring...

Does it mean anything that Gandalf has Glamdring at the beginning of the scroll there, in the Shire?

Or is it more likely that the artist just pulled a shot from somewhere else in the story?

I'm not so sure, as the shot of Thorin pre-troll's cave appropriately shows him with his pre-Orcrist sword...


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 9 2012, 8:33pm


Views: 18721
Barrel and costumes

Notice the dwarves are all wearing their normal clothes in those barrels. Artistic license for the poster I think since we know they are down to tunics in the vlogs.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 9 2012, 8:35pm


Views: 13937
Here's the picture in big...

[Click the link]

EDIT:

[even bigger]


(This post was edited by Estel78 on Jul 9 2012, 8:37pm)


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 9 2012, 8:35pm


Views: 13043
Yeah, don't read too much into it yet

Considering what I mentioned about the dwarves wearing all their gear while in the barrels. Not quite accurate as far as we've seen in vlogs.


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 9 2012, 8:37pm


Views: 12761
Many thanks Estel!!

Heart Luv you long time!


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Jul 9 2012, 8:37pm


Views: 12843
You made a good point there Shelob

I'm beginning to wonder if Glamdring will have any significance in the films (after all, it was never named in the film trilogy). It may be possible to leave it out to save time, but considering that Bilbo and Thorin will find Sting and Orcrist respectively, I don't see why.

"A Wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early: he arrives precisely when he means to!"-Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 8:37pm


Views: 12790
Won't be the case in the films

As we have already seen multiple shots of them with what seem to be "undergarments."

This is a massively photo-shopped piece of work, to be sure.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 8:38pm


Views: 14019
Where the company is trudging up the hill...

There are three figures in the foreground. Gandalf, Radagast and an Elf? Perhaps the last two are the folk who Gandalf met on the road who warned him about the Trolls.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jul 9 2012, 8:41pm)


Macfeast
Rohan

Jul 9 2012, 8:38pm


Views: 13742
The rest of the poster seems to be in order...

...so, even artistic license accounted for, it seems the to be the sole anachronism of the entire poster.


Macfeast
Rohan

Jul 9 2012, 8:38pm


Views: 13405
Oh yeah. Good catch. //

 


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 9 2012, 8:39pm


Views: 13109
My pleasure. :)

I've linked to an even bigger version of the pic, btw. Wink


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 8:40pm


Views: 12844
WHEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!

New Goblins and Wargs? Beorn? The Dwarves crossing a bridge of some kind (part of Dale)? Too cool!

And LOVE the image of Thorin & Co. crossing before the moon...wonderful.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Jul 9 2012, 8:42pm)


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 9 2012, 8:41pm


Views: 13033
Oh I know

Not worried they've been dropped from the story completely; just a little surprised they were omitted from the timeline considering how big a part they have to play in the story. But I suppose the creature designs are things they like to keep undercover for as long as possible.

And of course there are no elves either.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 8:41pm


Views: 12908
Thank you Estel!

This is a Kingly gift indeed! Wink

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Elpidha
Bree

Jul 9 2012, 8:41pm


Views: 13000
Full-size original image (no magnifier needed)

http://img2-2.timeinc.net/...BBIT-SCROLL_6000.jpg

Amazing!

Found the link by hunting through the source code.

The last green had almost faded out of the grass, when they came at length to an open glade not far above the banks of the stream. "Hrnmm! It smells like elves!" thought Bilbo, and he looked up at the stars. They were burning bright and blue.


rings7
Rohan


Jul 9 2012, 8:49pm


Views: 13353
Yeah this is full of spoilers

for those who haven't read the book lol.

Still, this is fabulous. But i do wonder, will we see Thranduil in this movie? We've seen nothing of him at all.


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Jul 9 2012, 8:52pm


Views: 12634
Well he has been cast

And many of us guess that film one will end with the barrel sequence, in which case you will see him in film one. He is to be played by Lee Pace, but he is one of a group of characters (Bard, Dain, Radagast, Master of Lake-Town etc) that we have seen no picture of thus far, obviously. But things may change with the next blog. Wink

"A Wizard is never late, Frodo Baggins. Nor is he early: he arrives precisely when he means to!"-Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring.

(This post was edited by Radagast-Aiwendil on Jul 9 2012, 8:54pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 9:00pm


Views: 12559
Eh?

I only see dwarves, Gandalf and Bilbo...

I think you're mistaken on this one.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 9:04pm


Views: 13073
Well if all of the figures are in the same shot then there are 15 of them...


In Reply To
I only see dwarves, Gandalf and Bilbo...

I think you're mistaken on this one.



I assumed that that picture was a composite shot. If it's not then who is the 15th figure?

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


Niniel Valinor
Rivendell


Jul 9 2012, 9:05pm


Views: 14169
Nerdgasm

I just had the nerdgasm of the century... Heart
Kili looks very bothered sleeping next to Bombur. Wonder if it's the fattydwarf's snoring...
The tree burnings and aaaaahhhh <3

"Many that live deserve death, and some that die deserve life."


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 9:06pm


Views: 13093
Actually, those look like the trolls. No Goblins, it seems. //

 

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 9 2012, 9:12pm


Views: 12489
Just dwarves

What's 13 + 1 + 1? Wink Those foreground characters are Fili, Kili, and Oin.


vexx801
Rivendell

Jul 9 2012, 9:25pm


Views: 12379
Incredible

It is essentially a visual summary of the first film, or so it seems. So many times I have read the chapters portrayed and tried to imagine what they would look like, especially on film. While this is largely photo manipulation, it certainly made my day, perhaps the week and month as well. It's a brilliant piece of work.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 9 2012, 9:29pm


Views: 12419
Wow! Some amazing pics! I am really pleased about the new Warg designs!

And I love the magnifying magic orb cursor. lol. I am really excited. This looks great, and I hope it presages some of what we might see in the new trailer we are all expecting between ComicCon and Dark Knight Rising.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Macfeast
Rohan

Jul 9 2012, 9:31pm


Views: 12589
Made this.



We've really had a great week in terms of Hobbity news. To think that, presumably, there's even more to come this weekend...makes me happy just thinking about it Laugh


Gold Grizzly
The Shire

Jul 9 2012, 9:32pm


Views: 12869
Cool picture!

Nice to see Bilbo on the top of his barrel rather than inside it. But are we a Dwarf short in the barrel riding picture? I only count 12 of them.

EDIT: Bofur is the one I can't spot.


(This post was edited by Gold Grizzly on Jul 9 2012, 9:36pm)


Vangalad
Lorien


Jul 9 2012, 9:33pm


Views: 12459
OMG

My eyes are burning with awe! Angelic
It feels like the fastest glimpse of a whole film! wow...it looks amazing.


All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


Foromir
Rivendell

Jul 9 2012, 9:38pm


Views: 12093
This is beautiful!

This could well be the most visually appealing output I have seen from the whole production so far! True beauty!


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 9 2012, 9:40pm


Views: 12244
They're all there

There is one partially obscured behind Thorin. Looks like it could be a branch or rock at first glance.


Gold Grizzly
The Shire


Jul 9 2012, 9:43pm


Views: 12094
Thanks

I see him now.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 9 2012, 9:48pm


Views: 12166
Poor Bombur.

"Do I really have to climb this?"

Laugh

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 9:48pm


Views: 12263
WOOHAY!!!! :D :D

Wargs = Wolf-like

^ the --most-- exciting thing to me! CoolSmileCoolSmile

Beorn = AWESOME bear


I think the bridge is hard to pin down.... bridge to the Elven King's halls most likely.... -but-... why would the dwarves be on it without any elf guards? ? ? ...

There's been some speculation as to the shadow to the left of the wargs in the burning forest.... I don't think it's Radagast personally but a warg 'Aroooooooooing'.

I was completely GOBSMACKED by this :D

CoolCoolCool

So promising!

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!

________________________________________________

Laketown guy: What have the dwarves -ever- done for us?

Bard: The aqueduct!

Laketown guy: Piss off! We're not from Dale


mulubinba
Rivendell

Jul 9 2012, 9:56pm


Views: 12279
Rune on Bilbo's door

I love this scroll!!!!

I notice the rune on Bilbo's door. Is it a "G" in dwarf runes?


(This post was edited by mulubinba on Jul 9 2012, 9:57pm)


Daniel James
The Shire

Jul 9 2012, 10:07pm


Views: 12773
My thoughts on all the pictures/scenes

As suspected, the movie will end with the barrel sequence. This is incredible! I'm so excited, especially to see Beorn and the Wargs.

If you look closely, you can see the symbol Gandalf knocked onto Bilbo's door! It appears to be a G.

Also, in the troll scene, you can see 3 trolls in the background, skulking among the rocks near the top of the picture. If only we could hear them talk in their cockney accents!

As the Company is walking up the hill, it looks like everyone in the back is looking at something behind them, I wonder what?

In the picture of Elrond, there is a small sword/long dagger laying on a cloth on the table. Could that be Sting?

I assume Beorn is going to become an even bigger bear in the battle. I sure hope so! Not that he's not intimidating right now....he's at least a good 10-12 feet tall.

Bilbo in Mirkwood: He appears to be crouching behind a rock, watching the enemy spiders and preparing a plan of attack/rescue.

Yeah, the characters on the bridge are definitely the dwarfs. Maybe it's the Bridge to Thranduil?

Bilbo, on the far right, is riding ON his barrel (rather than INSIDE), just like in the book!

I highly doubt it, but could that be the Lonely Mountain in the background on the right?&#65279;


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 10:12pm


Views: 11937
I was literally just thinking the same thing Daniel James!! that might be The Lonely Mountain! Erebor

We have beheld Erebor for the first time folks!

What else -could- it be other than it!?

Wrong size for the distance that it's meant to be at, but then again PJ did the same disproportionately angled shots in LOTR with Mount Doom for eg.)!!!

The Lonely Mountain! WOW.

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!

________________________________________________

Laketown guy: What have the dwarves -ever- done for us?

Bard: The aqueduct!

Laketown guy: Piss off! We're not from Dale


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 10:14pm


Views: 12010
Behold the mighty Erebor! (?):



Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!

________________________________________________

Laketown guy: What have the dwarves -ever- done for us?

Bard: The aqueduct!

Laketown guy: Piss off! We're not from Dale


(This post was edited by Xanaseb on Jul 9 2012, 10:14pm)


Daniel James
The Shire

Jul 9 2012, 10:14pm


Views: 12045
Lonely Mountain

Yeah, I'm just unsure because of how the pictures are melded together. What appears to be a large mountain could just be something else, etc.. Hopefully, we'll see something in the trailer that I'm hoping is attached to The Dark Knight Rises!

Follow me on Google+! http://plus.ly/DanielJames
Also, follow my Hobbit fanpage: http://gplus.to/TheHobbitMovies


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 10:18pm


Views: 11997
Also, brilliant spot that Bilbo is Barrel -riding-!! :D :D I concur with that!

SmileCool

Also re: Beorn, in the book it actually says that Beorn grows to a giant size especially for/during the battle, surprising everyone. So his full glory is shown in the Bo5A don't worry!

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!

________________________________________________

Laketown guy: What have the dwarves -ever- done for us?

Bard: The aqueduct!

Laketown guy: Piss off! We're not from Dale


Gold Grizzly
The Shire


Jul 9 2012, 10:19pm


Views: 12100
All it needs ...

 ... is a dragon perched on top of it!
Angelic


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 10:19pm


Views: 12332
Put together awfully...

It starts good and just ends up awful...

I LOVE IT Laugh


pacochoa
Bree

Jul 9 2012, 10:20pm


Views: 11918
Beorn

I had the same thought on Beorn.
I thought he was supposed to be a "giant" bear. I always interpreted it as a bear of supernatural size.
The bear standing next to Gandalf looks like a normal, large, full-grown bear.

Perhaps this is just one of Beorn's bear friends and not Beorn himself???


Eruthurin
Rivendell


Jul 9 2012, 10:21pm


Views: 14248
You can download the Hi Res Image here!

 
http://cinescopia.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/07/noticia-hobbit-imagen-panoramica-principal00.jpg

Wink

:: All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you ::


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 10:26pm


Views: 12351
Good spot!

There's is too much to take in!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 10:32pm


Views: 12534
Sting

No thats not sting! Its an enemy blade, notice the handle, its not curved!


Macfeast
Rohan

Jul 9 2012, 10:33pm


Views: 11759
Oh yeah.

The Morgul-blade we've been hearing about?


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 10:36pm


Views: 12297
Sting

What else? I believe it is exactly that...sting is much more elegant


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 10:36pm


Views: 11957
Yes, you're right!

And the blade is pointed. Which begs the question, is that the map of Erebor, or somewhere else (Dol Guldur?)


Daniel James
The Shire

Jul 9 2012, 10:37pm


Views: 11896
Thanks, that picture is massive!

Thanks for posting that link! That version of the banner is an absolutely massive 8871x1195, while maintaining fantastic quality.

Here's a link to what I'm talking about: http://goo.gl/JzgBU

Follow me on Google+! http://plus.ly/DanielJames
Also, follow my Hobbit fanpage: http://gplus.to/TheHobbitMovies

(This post was edited by Daniel James on Jul 9 2012, 10:38pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 10:37pm


Views: 11881
Not sure I understand...

There are 15 members of the company. The 13 dwarves, plus Gandalf and Bilbo.

Am I missing something?


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 10:38pm


Views: 12107
Thank you :-) /

 


Vangalad
Lorien


Jul 9 2012, 10:38pm


Views: 12213
That's right.

Really eager to see how this morgul blade/nazgul scenario fits in the story...


All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 10:39pm


Views: 12716
Who's spotted the moth?!

Shocked


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 10:43pm


Views: 11853
reply to danielb

The map hes holding is erebor's..hes wearing the golden costume from the previous map scene..his white council costume is a purple one , as was shown on the 3rd videoblog...i think they mixed the table with him from another scene...

The rivendell background behind gandi and galadriel looks like the fellowship of the ring rivendell hmmmmm...


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 10:44pm


Views: 11910
Beorn is perfect. And HUGE.

That is not a normal-sized bear. It is very large (through reasonably so), and if it existed in our world, would likely be considered to be one of the largest bears alive.

I hope he does remain that size, as having a bear that is within the realm of possibility in our world will make, IMO, for more convincing cinema. I always thought the mumakil were far too massive, and would have looked much more interesting if they were closer to real battle elephant size (though a little bigger). As they were, they were somewhat unconvincing.

This Beorn looks great (also notice the locks of longish hair that hang down on the side of his head - to indicate that this is a man-bear?).

Also, given GDT's focus on "silhouettes," is anyone but me seeing this reflected here? From the dwarves to the wargs to Beorn, I really get a sense of GDT's visual influence on the characters... Though I'm sure PJ's influence is just as strong.

This really has gotten me excited.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Jul 9 2012, 10:45pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 10:44pm


Views: 11707
It probably is the Erebor map

I was only suggesting it since you spotted it was the Morgul blade. I just presumed they might have a map of Dol Guldur as well? Crazy


pulpfiction16
Rivendell

Jul 9 2012, 10:45pm


Views: 11899
Context..

We *know* these are spoilers, since we know the arc of the general story. To someone who has never read the books, it's just a series of images, highlights of scenes that lacks context; "Oh there'll be barrel scenes" blah blah blah. Nothing different than a trailer that shows a clip from the final fight of a film, the audience has no where or how but in retrospect you could technically argue it's a spoiler.

Besides, it's a 60+ year old book. Spoilers aren't too big of a concern, except for possibly the Dol Guldor (spelling?) storyline, which is a bit more mysterious right now. That's probably where the big surprises of the story will be.


Not_the_beard
The Shire

Jul 9 2012, 10:45pm


Views: 11986
Marketing ploy?

The fact that the goblins haven't been featured at all in the marketing thus far might actually be the filmmakers trying to keep their appearance a surprise for those who haven't read the book. Imagine the audience's surprise when goblins pop out of the nice quiet cave when they had no idea Goblins would be in the film.

Unfortunately this might backfire. One thing that I think hurt the first trailer was its locations weren't very diverse. We pretty much just saw Hobbiton, Rivendel, and Dol Guldur. Keeping the goblins a secret will definitely make the film's scale seem a lot smaller in the marketing of the film.


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 10:47pm


Views: 12231
This is where I am a little dubious

I'm not entirely convinced this is the bear we will actually get to see.

The picture is mixed with photographs, but heavily, heavily photoshopped. Some cases it is obvious (the food on Bilbo's table), other cases not so much (Gandariel behind Elrond).

Is this actually Beorn, the eagles and the wolves - or are they drawings (concept art) and a bit of photoshop?


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 10:49pm


Views: 11397
reply to danielb

They will have a map of mirkwood for sure...


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 10:50pm


Views: 11814
Hard to tell

But since the characters we know are all accurately represented, I don't see why they would misrepresent the others.

My guess is that the wargs, Beorn in bear form, and the trolls, will pretty much look like that.

If so, I will be thrilled.


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 10:50pm


Views: 11667
On a side note

How long before the Gandalf-Galadriel rumours re-appear.

And do we know yet if this is the Morgul blade from FOTR, or another one?


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 10:53pm


Views: 12219
They are accurately represented

But not very well (i.e. in the barrels and climbing the hill/mountain - as in, obvious photoshop job).

Even Gandalf next to Beorn looks drawn rather than an actual picture. Same goes for the eagles?


Gold Grizzly
The Shire


Jul 9 2012, 10:56pm


Views: 11862
Bilbo in the tree

Bilbo seems to be alone in his tree. I hope that they don't cut out the bit where Dori helps him into the branches, then leaps after him in the nick of time. That's one of my favourite scenes ...


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 10:57pm


Views: 11606
Is that a new website link on the poster as well? /

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 10:58pm


Views: 12064
It's only supposed to be a promotional shot

They can't put everything in! I wouldn't worry Smile


Gold Grizzly
The Shire


Jul 9 2012, 11:02pm


Views: 11757
You're probably right

But worrying is what I do best ... Wink


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:03pm


Views: 11754
Don't think they're sleeping

Looks like they are appropriately tied up in sacks, courtesy of their friends Bert, Tom and Bill! Smile


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Jul 9 2012, 11:07pm)


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 9 2012, 11:03pm


Views: 11909
2Things

Solves the problem of lighting ...."Riddles in Dark"...
Sting
is the only Light Source!
(HEAD SLAP?)

No goblins yet since they are CGI
they are working thier fannys off during Post
and needed Principle Photograghy to get Done for a rough cut
for reference...

I Don't WANT to see goblins until December.

Bomby


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:04pm


Views: 11827
The goblins are CGI?

Has this been confirmed?


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:06pm


Views: 12242
True

But their designs are generally spot on...

Beorn and the wargs could indeed be concept art. But even if that's the case, my guess is that they are FINAL concept art, and it is likely that they will look something like that in the films...

At least, I hope so, as I am very pleased.

Also, best shot of Thorin I have yet seen. That's a dwarven king, if I ever saw one (and honestly, I like his dwarf sword far better than Ocrist, which I find underwhelming...).


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Jul 9 2012, 11:08pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 11:06pm


Views: 11937
I thought they were sleeping too

But they are definitely in sacks.

Why are they so relaxed? Unimpressed

Who's Tim?


(This post was edited by DanielLB on Jul 9 2012, 11:07pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 11:08pm


Views: 11957
Another example

Is that floating mug in between Ori and Oin! I presume Fili is holding it Wink


Carne
Tol Eressea

Jul 9 2012, 11:09pm


Views: 12180
No, the goblins are not CG

PJ mentioned in an interview that they had 50 goblin performers on set, and it was so hot that they needed cooling inside the suits.

Plus they've been briefly seen in some of the vlogs Smile

And to your reply about the sacks; I agree, I don't think they're sleeping. Look at Dori who seems to have his face turned towards the ground. Don't think that's a very comfortable way of sleeping Tongue


(This post was edited by Carne on Jul 9 2012, 11:10pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:10pm


Views: 11823
Tim is Tom's stunt double

Obviously. Smile

They do look a little resigned, though...Perhaps dwarves are at their calmest when death is imminent?

This shot, and the dwarf-troll shot from the teaser, tells me that the dwarves will be tied up in bags, Bilbo frees the dwarves while the trolls argue about what to do with them, the dwarves attack the trolls, the trolls seem to be winning, and then Gandalf shows up and heralds the dawn.

I'd put money on that.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Jul 9 2012, 11:12pm)


artemy
Lorien


Jul 9 2012, 11:15pm


Views: 11867
Thank you, OMG this is too exciting!

Apart from the vlogs, this is the best bit of promotional material we've had so far! A wonderful little plot summary with lots of half-hidden extras to look for Laugh

The things I've noticed:

- Gandalf has Glamdring outside Bag End. Is this just a picture of him from later on photoshopped in (considering he has his pipe)? Or does it mean Glamdring will not be found in the troll hoard?

- Kili seems quite prevalent in all the pictures of the dwarves. Sneaky little marketing ploy there, putting the hot one centre stage.

- Those trolls blend very well into the rocky landscape. I do wonder that their heads seem more triangular than the stone trolls from FOTR though.

- I love the look of Thorin's dwarven sword! Also I'm sure they're tied up in sacks, since they seem stacked up next to that cauldron, Fili is face down and Kili looks unhappy.

- Beautiful shot of the whole gang in the moonlight. I feel similarly of them crossing that bridge (my first thought was that it was Rivendell, but now I'm not sure).

- Is Gandalf going to meet Galadriel in Rivendell outside of flashbacks then? Or have they just combined two scenes? I'd hazard that's a Morgul knife and a map of Dol Guldur.

- Wolves, at last! I wonder if they will explain that Saruman bred a new type of warg as he bred the uruks, and these are the traditional wolfish ones?

- BEORN! He's so majestic, and I like the hair! Plus, eagles are always a good thing. I don't see a moth though.

- Do I spy a spider hidden in the trees behind Bilbo, or is it a rock? Wish we could get a glimpse of an elf.

- As I'd hoped, Bilbo still rides on the outside. The presence of other barrels seems to imply Bilbo cuts them loose as a distraction or something.

The sudden increase in material flowing in has really got me hyped up for Comic Con, I can't wait for the weekend! Wink

~Beneath the sun, all things must wear to an end at last~

(This post was edited by artemy on Jul 9 2012, 11:18pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:16pm


Views: 11985
Looks more like Oin is raising it

 


MatthewJer18
Rohan

Jul 9 2012, 11:16pm


Views: 11663
Isn't the Great Goblin going to be a mo-capped effects creature, though?

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 11:18pm


Views: 12383
Could be

Perhaps he's annoyed with Ori


Carne
Tol Eressea

Jul 9 2012, 11:18pm


Views: 11778
Yes, he'll be fully CG, but most of the other goblins will not be

Smile


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 11:19pm


Views: 11965
Good point :-)


In Reply To
But even if that's the case, my guess is that they are FINAL concept art, and it is likely that they will look something like that in the films...



Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:20pm


Views: 12067
Beorn's hair

Meaning the longish hair on his head and back, is very, very interesting.

For one, it seems to be of human-ish length.

Secondly, and perhaps most intriguingly, it looks to be a lot lighter than the rest of the bear's fur...

Is it possible that Beorn, the man, will be blonde, and that this will also be reflected in his bear form?


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:21pm


Views: 12023
I understood as much

Or at least that his face would be.

However, I had not heard that the rest of the goblins would be CGI. Bombadil is the first person to have said that, as far as I am aware...


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 9 2012, 11:21pm


Views: 11924
I'm not worried either, but...

Isn't anyone else just dying to see the goblins/orcs of this film? We haven't seen any in the blogs except for a few people in prosthetic suits without facial prosthetics. ARGHHHH!!!! Oh well I will just have to wait.

This picture is so freaking awesome though. And I love the look of the Wargs!

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


artemy
Lorien


Jul 9 2012, 11:21pm


Views: 11896
Are you sure?


In Reply To
Secondly, and perhaps most intriguingly, it looks to be a lot lighter than the rest of the bear's fur...


I thought that was just the moonlight catching it.

~Beneath the sun, all things must wear to an end at last~


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 9 2012, 11:24pm


Views: 11655
Impressive hacking Elpidha!!//

 
Wink


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:25pm


Views: 12003
I initially thought so as well

But as he is generally backlit, one would think that the dark part of the bear's face would all be dark, long hair and short. Yet even those strands of hair are lighter than his face...

Of course, this is a photoshopped piece of work, and normal lighting need not apply. But as it stands, it looks like slightly lighter hair to me.


Carne
Tol Eressea

Jul 9 2012, 11:25pm


Views: 12085
Blonde hair

Several weeks ago a picture of the production filming outside Beorn's house popped up on Flickr. To be able to watch the big version you'd have to shell out $50 (so I never got a good look). In the picture there was a person with what looked like a big, blonde wig. The picture was later removed.

Blonde hair is definitely possible.


(This post was edited by Carne on Jul 9 2012, 11:26pm)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:26pm


Views: 14042
Out of curiosity

How in the name of all that is holy do you do that? You hack into the EW site, and extract a high res version of the image?

Impressive, whatever it is...


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 11:27pm


Views: 11659
poster

My friends if you cut this poster into pieces you have HD fantastic wallpapers!!!

This is mine: IMG]http://i48.tinypic.com/2q8vfh4.jpg[/IMG]

My laptop looks sooo good now!


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:27pm


Views: 11722
Was that reported here on TORN?

If not, why didn't you say anything? Wink

In any event, blonde hair on Beorn wouldn't bother me in the slightest.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Jul 9 2012, 11:29pm)


Carne
Tol Eressea

Jul 9 2012, 11:28pm


Views: 11743
There was a thread about Beorn's house

And I brought it up. Some of us discussed it. I went back to look for it later but it was gone Frown

(I'm fairly sure it's removed because I can no longer find it)


(This post was edited by Carne on Jul 9 2012, 11:29pm)


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 9 2012, 11:29pm


Views: 11796
My first born goes to you Eruthurin!

Whether you want it or not!! Heart


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 11:33pm


Views: 11805
If the Goblins have been somewhat redesigned...

I'd expect that they may not be relieved (at least in their full glory), until later in the marketing campaign.

Agreed that this may make the scale of the film appear smaller, though we'll probably get shots of the Dwarves fighting or fleeing from something, so we'll still see some frenetic action in various locales.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:36pm


Views: 11478
OMG, I'm always get the biggest news late!!

This is amazing... I'm sure someone's pointed out, Elrond has the Morgul blade on his table, and Beorn seems to have hair? Also, is that troll grinning? Shocked


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:37pm


Views: 11652
Relieved???

Are you implying that the goblin extras are all going to killed?

In any event, I do think the goblins are being saved for some reason. My guess is that they are a new design, and that they are something special.

I hope they are very different, as for the most part, I thought the LOTR goblins looked like a bunch of creeps with masks on. Wink


Magpie
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 11:38pm


Views: 11555
just fyi: Estel78 posted the same link a little before this one. :-) //

 


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:40pm


Views: 12134
Pretty sure it leads to the elf-halls...

The elf halls had a bridge leading to it. It's not quite as dramatic or high-up in the book, but it's there. I like it Smile


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 11:41pm


Views: 12150
I called it first months ago

Beorn is a polar bear Wink


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:42pm


Views: 12471
This scroll is chronological

So I can't see what other bridge it could be... Looks nice to me.

There seems to be a good deal of corrosion there at the base.


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 11:45pm


Views: 11875
I doubt the bridge is metal

More likely (water) erosion


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:45pm


Views: 11921
You're right

And he's angry at the goblins of Goblin-town, who are almost certainly burning large quantities of carbon-heavy coal to feed their furnaces, thus contributing to Arctic melt and forcing him to move southwards.

A modern allegory, perhaps?


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Jul 9 2012, 11:46pm)


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 11:46pm


Views: 12036
Yes, I was "implying that the goblin extras are all going to killed". 8)

 Apparently, one typo/grammatical error begats anothor. Angelic

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Jul 9 2012, 11:52pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 11:47pm


Views: 11980
PJ did say that he was going to explore the geopolitics of Middle-earth ... /

 


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:48pm


Views: 12449
Why, oh why, is there a time limit on editing posts!?

Smile


artemy
Lorien


Jul 9 2012, 11:49pm


Views: 12191
I think the bridge may have been taken out of context

As by rights if it leads to Thranduil's halls then it should be in the forest; the ivy at the base of the bridge makes me think that it has been pasted into the mountain scenery to better fit with the barrels below.

~Beneath the sun, all things must wear to an end at last~


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 9 2012, 11:50pm


Views: 11690
Clearly so I can annoy you by correcting you!

Laugh


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 11:50pm


Views: 11730
Obviously agreed. :P //

 

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 9 2012, 11:52pm


Views: 11919
What's "anothie," precious?

Laugh


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 9 2012, 11:56pm


Views: 11804
It's the cute Lego Bilbo version

See the front page/collecting board for more.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


ByThorinsBeard
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 12:08am


Views: 11771
love Beorn

Love Bear Beorn, he looks amazing...and Thorin looks more like I'd hoped he would (the older variation.)

Still bummed about Armitage chickening out regarding the beard, but I'm sure I'll forget that when I see what a great job he does nailing my favorite Tolkien character.

"Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you anywhere." - Albert Einstein.



Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 12:11am


Views: 11957
Chickening out?

Armitage never said he originally had a long beard.

All he said was that he decided to grow his own beard for block 2, as he felt it was easier to act without the prosthetics on his jaw (very reasonable).

All indications, including all the vlog clips we saw of block 1 shooting, point to Armitage always having had a short beard.

The idea that he asked for a short beard is, as far as I am aware, a myth.

This was most likely a design decision by PJ and crew, and likely had nothing to do with Armitage's input.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 12:13am


Views: 11718
Agreed

Someone who really does not know the story has no notion that these events are sequential. And even if they guess that there is a sequencing, it still doesn't add up. Bilbo is alone fleeing the wargs in the picture, the essential scene of the capture by the goblins and the rescue by Gandalf are absent, the trolls are lurking in the forest but they haven't caught anything, Beorn is just a bear in the forest. Evidently Gandalf is friends with moths, eagles and bears as well. Nothing is really a give away. An average trailer gives away much more.

In Reply To
We *know* these are spoilers, since we know the arc of the general story. To someone who has never read the books, it's just a series of images, highlights of scenes that lacks context; "Oh there'll be barrel scenes" blah blah blah. Nothing different than a trailer that shows a clip from the final fight of a film, the audience has no where or how but in retrospect you could technically argue it's a spoiler.

Besides, it's a 60+ year old book. Spoilers aren't too big of a concern, except for possibly the Dol Guldor (spelling?) storyline, which is a bit more mysterious right now. That's probably where the big surprises of the story will be.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 12:19am


Views: 11901
The high res version confirms

That the figure in question is indeed a howling warg.

I was hoping for Bolg, but no luck.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 12:25am


Views: 11718
I thought the Mumakil were perfect. Remember, their lesser cousins

who still dwell on Earth are but shadows of their former girth and majesty, so it would not do at all for the Oliphaunts, The Mumak of Harad, to be only slightly larger than a normal African Elephant.

There are pre-historic bears that were up to 14 feet high.

And of course, Earth's history is full of giagantic creatures, from Spinosaurus and Ultrasauraus to the great whales. These events are set in an ancient time, in The Age of Wonder one could say. A bit of unusual girth won't hurt credulity.

In Reply To
That is not a normal-sized bear. It is very large (through reasonably so), and if it existed in our world, would likely be considered to be one of the largest bears alive.

I hope he does remain that size, as having a bear that is within the realm of possibility in our world will make, IMO, for more convincing cinema. I always thought the mumakil were far too massive, and would have looked much more interesting if they were closer to real battle elephant size (though a little bigger). As they were, they were somewhat unconvincing.

This Beorn looks great (also notice the locks of longish hair that hang down on the side of his head - to indicate that this is a man-bear?).

Also, given GDT's focus on "silhouettes," is anyone but me seeing this reflected here? From the dwarves to the wargs to Beorn, I really get a sense of GDT's visual influence on the characters... Though I'm sure PJ's influence is just as strong.

This really has gotten me excited.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 10 2012, 12:29am


Views: 11750
As if I needed to be more excited.

This is *BLEEP*-ing awesome! Smile

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 12:40am


Views: 11698
Beorn's house

You remember the discussion of the big wig guy from those images someone took of location shooting at Beorn's house that we were all too cheap to buy the high res versions of?? The big wig thing had light hair.

My guess is Beorn will be blonde.

Edit: This thread is moving too fast for me. What Carne just said!


(This post was edited by DarkJackal on Jul 10 2012, 12:45am)


artemy
Lorien


Jul 10 2012, 12:48am


Views: 11533
The only evidence of Beorn I remember seeing

were some potential pieces of concept art, and the huge chair John Howe was sitting in during one vlog which I am certain belongs in Beorn's house, judging by its size and rustic, homely surroundings.

~Beneath the sun, all things must wear to an end at last~

(This post was edited by artemy on Jul 10 2012, 12:48am)


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 12:53am


Views: 11467
I still have the link :-)

Ready to shell out the cash Shelob??


(This post was edited by DarkJackal on Jul 10 2012, 12:53am)


duats
Grey Havens

Jul 10 2012, 12:55am


Views: 11758
He looks black to me

The lighter bits are where his fur is catching the moonlight.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 12:58am


Views: 11891
But that doesn't hold

With the long hair that hangs in front of his face, as that part of Beorn is not lit, but in shadow. Even in shadow, that hair is lighter than the rest.


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 12:58am


Views: 12315
I know, and I have already gushed over it

Just want to show appreciation for all who try to keep us in the know. It's hard to keep up with what's already been posted when it comes this fast.


duats
Grey Havens

Jul 10 2012, 12:59am


Views: 11701
Actually

Armitage said that they started out as rather extreme versions of themselves, and scaled back accordingly. He believes the jaw is important to acting, so it wouldn't surprise me in the least if he requesting a short beard.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 12:59am


Views: 11363
Send it to me for free

And I will never disagree with you again. Ever.

Smile


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 1:01am


Views: 11736
Why is Sting glowing in Mirkwood?

Does it glow when Spiders are present?


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 1:01am


Views: 11544
Perhaps

But there's no evidence to suggest that the beard was ever very long.

I think a youngish, short-bearded Thorin was a very early design decision by PJ and company. The decision to cast Armitage being one indication of that.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Jul 10 2012, 1:01am)


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 10 2012, 1:06am


Views: 11672
Amazing!!!


In Reply To


I am SO excited. And all my favorite characters make good appearances. :)


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 1:06am


Views: 12045
My hypothesis...

...is Beorn turns into a polar bear for the Battle of Five Armies, and Thorin rides him into the fray! (that is the real truth behind the white creature Richard Taylor is on).
Why? Because Thorin has to outdo Dain and his crazy undomesticated pig mount!

You just wait and see...Crazy


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 1:09am


Views: 12497
*embraces ByThorinsBeard*

ByThorinsBeard wrote: "but I'm sure I'll forget that when I see what a great job he does nailing my favorite Tolkien character."

That's the spirit!


Jim
Rivendell


Jul 10 2012, 1:15am


Views: 12063
Is that Radagast...

to the right of the flaming tree and above the wargs in the background? It looks like he is standing in front of two ponies?

This has just elevated my excitement to another level, Comic Con is just around the corner and I can't wait to see what they will reveal this Saturday.


(This post was edited by Jim on Jul 10 2012, 1:22am)


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 1:15am


Views: 11987
well that wouldn't be fun

I live for our disagreements!


flowww
Bree

Jul 10 2012, 1:16am


Views: 12034
Cool

Although, notice how in every shot of the dwarves, Kili is featured the most prominantly... Mildly disconcerting, especially since he really takes away from their dwarfishness.

I understand of course that this is Entertainment Weekly and they're going to focus on sex appeal, but imo this amply demonstrates how Kili's image is a purely commercial decision. Hopefully he wont be used as much - and in the same way - in the film as he is in the promotion, stinking it all up with this pandering, gratuitous fanservice. Honestly, it reeks of Warner Bros.

Otherwise though, this all looks beautiful. Very Hobbit-y.


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 1:17am


Views: 12303
Here's how Tolkien pictured the bridge...

http://corecanvas.s3.amazonaws.com/...original/jrrt_23.jpg

http://earing.80port.net/...venking's%20Gate.jpg

PJ seems to be inspired by this image of Menegroth from The Children of Húrin...

http://www.tolkienlibrary.com/...eparts_Menegroth.jpg


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 10 2012, 1:21am


Views: 12050
?


In Reply To
There are three figures in the foreground. Gandalf, Radagast and an Elf? Perhaps the last two are the folk who Gandalf met on the road who warned him about the Trolls.


Not sure where you mean or if you are kidding but the three people in the foreground on the hill picture are Kili, Fili and, I think, Oin(and the three people at the head of the line are Gandalf, Bilbo and I think Gloin)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 10 2012, 1:23am


Views: 12402
are they Wargs or just wolves?

just because they are showing them doesn't mean they are Wargs they could just be the wolf portion of the wolves and Wargs Wink


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Jul 10 2012, 1:23am)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Jul 10 2012, 1:24am


Views: 11686
very cool

lots of interesting things to see Smile


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 1:25am


Views: 12235
So, what's Elrond doing with the Morgul blade?

I thought he might be trying to translate Glamdring's description, but the higher-res picture confirms this is the Morgul Blade, so what's he reading?

High-res: http://cinescopia.com/...mica-principal00.jpg


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Jul 10 2012, 1:26am)


duats
Grey Havens

Jul 10 2012, 1:27am


Views: 12029
It still looks like its catching the light to me

And it being a few strands of hair, shining light down on it would make it look lighter than it really is. It could also just be chocked up to the fact that it's concept art - hence the inconsistency in lighting (Gandalf seems to be lit by a completely different light source).

Just look at his shoulder. Even though it's a night shot, that looks black to me, with maybe just the slightest hint of brown/blonde in there. I don't know. If he were blonde, I think it'd be much more apparent. For instance, even in this nighttime scene, you can still clearly make out that Gandalf's hat is blue, and his robes are grey. Also note that Beorn's color is much darker than Gandalf's grey robes, which I don't think would be the case if his hair were blonde.


(This post was edited by duats on Jul 10 2012, 1:30am)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 1:27am


Views: 12324
Not a polar bear

not one at all!

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 1:27am


Views: 12082
Fili&Kili have the best Eyesight

SO..they take up the rear guard
Gandalf leading since he knows the Territory.

Also my opinion is that are grouped
often by families
& Rank...
so our youngest are usually last in line.


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 1:28am


Views: 11831
Actually, if you look really close...

you can see, faintly, he's looking at Thror's map Wink I do wonder how the Morgul Blade has any relevance, though.


ByThorinsBeard
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 1:34am


Views: 12028
True that

I won't argue your valid points, but pardon my cliche - the eyes are the windows of the soul. For every single role I've seen Richard in, it's his eyes and the tone of his voice that really sell the character for me. Never bothered looking at his jaw.

And I am sure that the short beard was as much a marketing tool as it was comfort on Richard's part.

Ah well, I suppose my request for a hot male character with a long beard has been dashed again. ;)

EvilEvil

"Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you anywhere." - Albert Einstein.



Magpie
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 1:41am


Views: 11905
it redirects to http://www.thehobbitblog.com/ //

 


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 1:44am


Views: 12026
Is it there?

Oddly enough, I was looking for the moth on my second look... have you found it?


eralkfang
Lorien


Jul 10 2012, 1:45am


Views: 11849
Absolutely glorious.

I've got chills; December can't come soon enough!

The dwarves look amazing—Thorin's design, in particular, is really working for me lately. The wargs (or just plain old wolves!) look great, I'm pleased as punch to see Beorn…

I think it's just hit me that this is actually happening. Like, for real.


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 1:48am


Views: 11933
He also doesn't have his staff... //

 


ByThorinsBeard
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 1:48am


Views: 11848
My thanks DarkJackal

Need to find your Thorin fan site again...

From a cranky not old berserk-her trying to open her trap jaw mind.

and LoL at Bjorn asyour polar bear quip.

"Logic will get you from A to B. Imagination will take you anywhere." - Albert Einstein.



ElendilTheShort
Gondor

Jul 10 2012, 1:49am


Views: 12205
So pleased with this

not just the quality of the content but the fact that many early design concerns have evolved and improved especially with regards to the dwarves. All the scenery looks beautiful and dare I say it more Tolkien like than some of what we saw in the LOTR movies. The wargs are even wargs not those ugly mutated mongerels in the LOTR movies. Good to see Beorn T. Bear is not some over the top design, just what he is meant to be...perfect.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 1:49am


Views: 12890
Don't get Hasty..it's A paper weight?

..Personally even though I Love Rohan &z Gondor..

I'm really pleased we are gunna Tour Northern ME!
Mossy deep greens, wilder counties that are not
settled into Vast kingdoms.

PJ's movies were a bit too bright for me.
SO we get to
Visit a... much more mysterious, Shadowy Realm.

(Maybe because I read them in High School in Colorado Springs)
Mountains in the northern lattitudes have often felt like hidden places
somewhere in ME to me.

The last shot of the company in barrels sooo reminds me of tubeing down Rivers in Colorado as a kid!


Bomby


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 2:02am


Views: 12581
Or werewolves :o //

 


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 2:08am


Views: 13481
So it is

Going according to the implied chronology I assumed the blade was sting... but I see now that it is like a Morgul blade (after the shape and pommel). That is new. Was it found in the Troll's cave or is it evidence that Sauron is afoot?

It does appear to be Thorin's map that Elrond is pouring over. You can kind of see it by the light shining through it.

But is no one excited to see Bilbo riding atop a barrel rather than inside of one?


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 2:10am


Views: 12474
Oh, how cool!

They lose their armour, clothes and most of (possibly all of?*) their gear while in Thrainduil's keep. I imagine they'll spruce up at Laketown, so they could look quite different in film 2. What's interesting is that if these new looks exist, then they've already been designed and shot and none of us have had any idea Cool

*I wonder what happens to their weapons, particularly Orcrist, when in Thranduil's halls? Does the book explain? Perhaps he gets it back in film 2 via a particular elf? Or maybe Bilbo steals some stuff from a confiscation room and packs it in barrels?


(This post was edited by QuackingTroll on Jul 10 2012, 2:14am)


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 10 2012, 2:17am


Views: 13545
Me too, AO

The 'new and improved' wargs look awesome, as does the 'bear' form of Beorn.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 2:21am


Views: 11987
Actually..

I think it's spoilers for those who have... It probably just looks confusing to those that haven't.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 2:28am


Views: 11774
Is it just wishful thinking on my part

or does Bifur not have an axe in his head in the barrel?

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


duats
Grey Havens

Jul 10 2012, 2:37am


Views: 11813
Wishful thinking

It's just obscured by his black hair.


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 2:44am


Views: 11733
I guess Voronwe wanted it to be ...wait for it...

AXED Shocked


Eruthurin
Rivendell


Jul 10 2012, 3:06am


Views: 11636
hahahaha, very honored, mellon ;) //

 

:: All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you ::


Buchanicus
Lorien


Jul 10 2012, 3:07am


Views: 11703
I notice that Kili is featured more than any other Dwarf on the banner

He can be made out clearly in every "scene" of the Dwarves.

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.

(This post was edited by Buchanicus on Jul 10 2012, 3:07am)


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 3:10am


Views: 11705
I'm still not convinced //

 

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Finrod
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 3:18am


Views: 12288
Master Elrond, the Healer

Elrond is known to have especial skill at extracting iron implements from very touchy spots. Maybe he pulled the axe-blade out of the Dwarf’s head when they were at Rivendell.

…all eyes looked upon the ring; for he held it now aloft, and the green jewels gleamed there that the Noldor had devised in Valinor. For this ring was like to twin serpents, whose eyes were emeralds, and their heads met beneath a crown of golden flowers, that the one upheld and the other devoured; that was the badge of Finarfin and his house.
The Silmarillion, pp 150-151
while Felagund laughs beneath the trees
in Valinor and comes no more
to this grey world of tears and war.
The Lays of Beleriand, p 311




Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 3:24am


Views: 12463
I like that! //

 

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 10 2012, 3:29am


Views: 12995
Doubt it.


Quote
I understand of course that this is Entertainment Weekly and they're going to focus on sex appeal, but imo this amply demonstrates how Kili's image is a purely commercial decision. Hopefully he wont be used as much - and in the same way - in the film as he is in the promotion, stinking it all up with this pandering, gratuitous fanservice. Honestly, it reeks of Warner Bros.


I doubt that you'll get your wish, as I assume, given how they end, that Kili and Fili will have among the more prominent dwarf roles. They'll want to be able to play up their fate to maximum effect and honestly, IMO, that would be the case, no matter what they looked like. It just makes sense. It's tragic, they are young and energetic and hopeful and they die, and it's directly related to "Thorin's Folly". IMO that's not pandering, that's good storytelling, I always assumed that for the film, they were going to play up Thorin and his relationship with his nephews, flesh out Kili and Fili's characters so the audience would become attached to them. How they look may or may not be pandering, but their probable place in the story makes perfect dramatic sense.

That said I don't disagree that some of that probably played into WB's choices for use in the photo scroll.


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 10 2012, 3:29am


Views: 13176
Lol

Excellent theory, Finrod.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





duats
Grey Havens

Jul 10 2012, 3:32am


Views: 11613
Haven't we seen him with the axehead

In scenes taking place after Rivendell?


kimber
Registered User

Jul 10 2012, 4:09am


Views: 11661
A visible hobbit perhaps?

I agree that this is the bridge to the elvenking's halls, but looking at the hi-res picture I think these 13 figures are 12 dwarves plus a visible Bilbo second in line. If the movie follows the book Thorin should already be inside. Or is this the 13 dwarves and Bilbo is invisible?

The dwarves have no elven guard bringing them in, so maybe the movie has them entering of their own will, seeking help or following Thorin? Definitely looks like a change in their mode/motivation of arrival.


kimber
Registered User

Jul 10 2012, 4:25am


Views: 11670
just wolves

To me it looks like a wolf howling straight up, with two others entering from the woods. Hard to see though. I don't think we need Radagast to ride to the rescue in this scene, though who knows where he will be inserted into the story?


kimber
Registered User

Jul 10 2012, 4:35am


Views: 11387
White council?

My guess is that given the three characters present, this is a scene from a (partial) White Council meeting and Elrond is considering some sort of evidence about the necromancer's activities: an evil blade unwrapped from its cloth (the wavy thing it is on looks more like cloth than paper) with an accompanying message. Maybe a message sent from Radagast or Saruman since neither is pictured?

I am so eager to see how the White Council is dealt with in the movies, and especially to see Christopher Lee again!


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 4:40am


Views: 12135
Some possible post-barrels/movie 2 moments

For what it's worth, I posted this about a month ago:

Dwalin and Gloin crossing a creek (v-log 5). I think Dwalin is holding a different weapon than the war hammer or axes of before.

Bilbo wearing a different coat and gloves with Gloin in robes in the background.

Ori sneaking into frame behind PJ, wearing robes



(This post was edited by DarkJackal on Jul 10 2012, 4:42am)


kimber
Registered User

Jul 10 2012, 4:47am


Views: 12190
Not a map

Elrond needs to look at the map of Erebor in the moon light, and Bilbo and some dwarves should be around when he does, so I don't think this is it. Perhaps some message for him, Galadriel, and Gandalf, sent along with the evil blade?


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 5:34am


Views: 11677
That is a warg or wolf sitting on his haunches and howling

And those are some other wargs/wolves emerging from the trees.

So, no Radagast or any ponies.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 5:36am


Views: 11923
I'm willing to bet that Beorn will be blonde

And that when in bear form, there will be a hint of blonde hair on his head and upper back (while otherwise being brown/black).


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 5:38am


Views: 11421
You misunderstood me

I mean that there will be some blonde on Beorn the bear. Namely, the hanging hair. That is why I was distinguishing the seemingly light-colored hair on his head, with what looks to be an overall dark brown/black color.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 5:43am


Views: 11683
They will have different clothes post-Laketown

Some of the on location vlogs, which show the dwarves after Laketown (seemingly near the Mountain), show Gloin and Ori with very different clothes on (they look like ceremonial garb given by the Laketown residents).

So we will definitely be seeing some different-looking dwarves for film 2.

I'm delighted by that. I love when characters go through major costume changes (such as Pippin, Merry and Aragorn in ROTK).


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 5:46am


Views: 12088
For me

It's also tragic when solid characters that look middle-aged, or even old, die untimely deaths.

IMO, there's no need to "amp that up" by making Fili and Kili look like teenagers.


Marillë by the Sea
Rivendell


Jul 10 2012, 5:46am


Views: 11723
Probably very little relevance

Considering how this is a composite shot, I bet the people responsible for this scroll just slapped that morgul blade in there to include as much information as possible.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 5:47am


Views: 11857
Or maybe it's just a photoshop job, and the elves were not included

More likely, I'd say. Smile


Marillë by the Sea
Rivendell


Jul 10 2012, 5:48am


Views: 12086
Those look like three wolves

The one you think is Radagast is just a wolf howling.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 5:49am


Views: 12599
Yup, there they are

Different outfits and different weapons. Those scenes are definitely post-Laketown.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 5:52am


Views: 11852
Yes, unfortunately

We have...

The behind-the-scenes clips of the barrel ride sequence clearly show Bifur with that idiotic head ornament.

PJ can get some things soooo right, and then quickly spoil it with something soooo wrong.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Jul 10 2012, 5:52am)


Marillë by the Sea
Rivendell


Jul 10 2012, 5:55am


Views: 10521
This is all too overwhelming

Information overload!!

It's amazing how they summed up all of the main events of the first film in this scroll.

Thorin looks so majestic and regal, I am now wholeheartedly certain RA is perfect for this role (his eyes say it all).

Beorn and the wolves look perfect! I assume they're going to explain that the wargs in LOTR are mutants of the wolves in The Hobbit, cross-bred by Saruman like the Uruks.

It's a bit disconcerting (although I know I'm jumping the gun here) to see Glamdring with Gandalf in the first scene. Of course this is all photoshopped in, so this Gandalf may be cut out from a scene post-trollshaw. I just REAAALLY hope they include Glamdring in the troll stash, and have it glow along with Orcrist and sting. Screw continuity!!! Laugh

Bilbo holding a glowing Sting in the Mirkwood forest... could it be that goblins are present as well the spiders? Or is this taken from another scene?

I do believe that bridge goes to Thranduil's halls, but it doesn't make sense that the dwarves are walking in freely, with no Elven guards (I assume they will be tied up when they enter the halls).


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 6:04am


Views: 10264
Why does everyone think the previous wargs need explaining?

They can simply be silently accepted as a different breed of warg (these are the northern kind!). There's no reason to shrink Middle Earth by unnecessarily explaining away every mystery.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 6:05am


Views: 10183
I'm with you on continuity

I find absolutely no value in it! Smile


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 6:14am


Views: 12147
you sure?

In the highest res version I think I can vaguely see the shape of the lonely mountain looking as it does on the map in the book.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 6:15am


Views: 12490
The annoying thing about Turner is...

Not just that he doesn't have a beard, but that he doesn't even have an interesting face. He looks like quite a standard, modern, decent-looking suburban young adult.

They could have at least chosen someone with interesting, or more chiseled, facial bone structure.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Jul 10 2012, 6:16am)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 6:17am


Views: 11761
It may be a composite image

featuring a few of the things that will be addressed at Rivendell? IOW Gandalf and Galadriel may not actually be standing behind Elrond in the moment Elrond is shown. And there is something weird going on with the lighting around Elrond, and the shadow he is casting across the table.

Incidentally, in the language of cinema, two figures framed by an archway or doorway (or sometimes a window) is code for they are a couple, or are otherwise committed to each other in a profound way. This really makes me wonder if the view of Gandalf and Galadriel is through the archway at all? And what of the insertion of Elrond between them?


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 6:23am


Views: 10794
If an adaptation needn't be slavish

then neither should a prequel, no?Wink


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 10 2012, 6:32am


Views: 12735
Whateveh, I do what I want!(I hate having to fill in a subject EVERY single time:)


In Reply To
It's also tragic when solid characters that look middle-aged, or even old, die untimely deaths.

IMO, there's no need to "amp that up" by making Fili and Kili look like teenagers.


I didn't say that, I said that no matter what they looked like, their probable "role" in the story would be the same so their role in the story really has nothing to do with what they look like. They look like they look for whatever reason, but their place in the story, IMO, was always going to be the same.

It was always going to "amped up" - let's face it, almost none of the dwarves other than Thorin had much "face time" in the book, most of them were lucky if they had more than a couple of lines in the whole book.

So IMO they were always going to flesh out Kili and Fili's roles in particular and their relationship with Thorin due to the fact they are his heirs and they DIE. It isn't middle aged dwarves or old dwarves who die(except Thorin), it's two young dwarves.

I've often read that it was perhaps a little commentary by Tolkien, the whole idea of young men, full of promise and with their whole lives ahead of them, dying in "older men's wars" which was a big thing about WWI. That is what is usually the case, but due to the massive wholesale slaughter of millions of the young men of much of Western Europe in that war, it was a particularly big deal.

How they look has nothing to do with whether or not they are "solid" characters either, which also means even if they don't have much in the way of prosthetics and look cute, if they are well written and well portrayed that should have no effect on whether or not they are solid characters. People judging the characters based on whether or not they look "dwarvish" enough(given the fact that they are in line for dwarf height and such) are just as guilty of being shallow as those who for whom the supposed fanservice was done for, IMO.

And IMO Tolkien made a bit of a big deal in The Hobbit that Fili and Kili were younger and more agile, etc, etc so even if you don't like the way the film has gone about showing that, they were always IMO going to look like young adults(they certainly don't look like teenagers to me, I think that's a real exaggeration), given they were quite a bit younger than almost everyone else, the filmmakers were going to make them look that way. Not do the "all dwarves look the same age until they are 220". :) Because it's another tool for differentiating the character - the fashions and hairstyles and the ages are all ways of doing that.

It seems to me all PJ did in that regards, leaving use of prosthetics aside for making them look or not look "dwarvish" according to some, was to increase the age a bit where young dwarves still look "young" as opposed to the "one size fits all" age that effects most dwarves after they reach a certain age until they get very old. So he's done it in such a way that you've young adult dwarves, middle aged dwarves of various shapes and sizes which make up the bulk of the rest and a couple dwarves perhaps bordering on an older age.


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 6:40am


Views: 11491
.... I can see PJ doing that ... /

 


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 6:41am


Views: 11540
Thanks for these QT

I had forgotten that there was even a bridge!


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 6:43am


Views: 11794
It's a new domain name though?

I wonder if they will be switching over?


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 6:46am


Views: 11656
Sorry QT....

You were the only person to reply to my joke. Frown


lurtz2010
Rohan

Jul 10 2012, 6:47am


Views: 10075
scrolling across that picture felt like reading the book

that was awesome, everything looks perfect. These movies are going to be so epic, The Hobbit is the best fantasy story ever


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 6:56am


Views: 10735
Night/dark theme

All of these "scenes", excluding Rivendell, are during the night. Although lighter, the last two "scenes" are comparatively dark(er).

I hadn't really noticed this was the case before. Everything happens in the dark!


namarie
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 7:06am


Views: 10189
I think we just had a look

at the entire first movie from the beginning till the end :) The entire picture is gorgeous. I'm out of words.


There is always hope


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 10 2012, 7:15am


Views: 11671
It now redirects to "http://wwws.warnerbros.co.uk/thehobbitpart1"

That site has the same content as thehobbit.com Crazy



The Plan 9 Interview... in celebration of the 10th anniversary of the release of The Fellowship of the Ring.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 7:34am


Views: 11768
I also dislike the overuse of prosthetics

All I think would have been nice is a proper beard (short or long), and some interesting facial features.

As it stands, Turner simply looks like a modern young adult playing at being a dwarf in a fantasy film. For me, this will lessen the impact of his character arc, IMO.

Perhaps that is superficial. But film is a visual medium, and if I cannot accept a character as existing in Middle Earth, it will be difficult for me to absorb his story.


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 7:51am


Views: 10010
May I just say I'm happy...

... and go away and lose myself scrolling the scroll! It's magical - I can't wait for the film...Smile


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 10 2012, 8:02am


Views: 11730
I kind of feel the same way

For me he's the one that I'm still not quite sure about as appearing dwarf-like. But I did bring up this point last year when the pics first came out: We can only go by what he looks like, at the moment. We haven't seen enough of him in action in the movie. It's possible that he might come off completely believable as a dwarf in the movie.

We still have to take into account how he's going to act, sound, talk, move, and his height appearance when next to humans. It is quite possible (and I'm holding out hope) that if all of these OTHER elements are done right, we might almost forget that he doesn't really look very Dwarven, when he acts, sounds, talks, and moves like a believable dwarf. But that's still up in the air for now.

I just kind of wish that they had let him have his long beard like he did at the conference thing and have less straight hair. Even his long curly hair at the conference thing looked more dwarven than his hair does in the movie. But we will have to wait and see how his performance turns out.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 8:09am


Views: 12057
All Wargs are Wolves

but all Wolves are not Wargs.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 8:40am


Views: 10029
*SPASM! kerplunk*

OMG!!! This has just totally spiked my geek-o-meter! *tearing* WOW!!! WOW!!!! I need to spend a whole day just going over and over and over this thing! HOW CRUEL!!! HOW DELICIOUSLY TORMENTING!!! WOW!! I want this to be one of those scrolling desktop backgrounds we had for LotR!!

THANKS FOR THIS!! I'm so freaking busy right now I haven't had time to get lost in this as I need to be!

*spins in chair* WOW!


sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.




TORn's Observations Lists
Unused Scenes



Foromir
Rivendell

Jul 10 2012, 9:05am


Views: 9805
Indeed!

The different parts/scenes of the image could almost be used as illustrations for a new Hobbit book edition. Note that they cover almost every chapeter nicely.


Foromir
Rivendell

Jul 10 2012, 9:08am


Views: 11512
Obviously we have a new love triangle! //


In Reply To
Incidentally, in the language of cinema, two figures framed by an archway or doorway (or sometimes a window) is code for they are a couple, or are otherwise committed to each other in a profound way. This really makes me wonder if the view of Gandalf and Galadriel is through the archway at all? And what of the insertion of Elrond between them?



Mordae
The Shire

Jul 10 2012, 9:43am


Views: 9980
Wallpaper time!

I made a few wallpapers for you guys!
Personally I'm using the first one, loving the colors!


http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/2336/wallpapervz.jpg


http://img69.imageshack.us/img69/1711/wallpaper2bw.jpg


http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/6210/wallpaper3l.jpg


http://img560.imageshack.us/img560/1209/wallpaper4lb.jpg


http://img100.imageshack.us/img100/8783/wallpaper5i.jpg


The resolution should be enough for most people too ;)


Magpie
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 10:05am


Views: 11447
same content but slightly different design

very insignificant differences between the two - surely to do with different licensing arrangements, ratings systems, etc. in different countries.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Magpie
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 10:07am


Views: 11496
I think this is the uk site.

I don't think it's uncommon to have different domains for different countries. As I said in another post, there are slight differences between the two. And for some countries, of course, the language would be different.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 10 2012, 10:11am


Views: 11277
Well at least I can't cry about there not being a website anymore :P //

 



The Plan 9 Interview... in celebration of the 10th anniversary of the release of The Fellowship of the Ring.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 10 2012, 10:20am


Views: 9898
Thanks so much Mordae

I'm going with the second one! And at some point will change to the first.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jul 10 2012, 10:38am


Views: 9948
cheers Mordae :D //

 

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!

________________________________________________

Laketown guy: What have the dwarves -ever- done for us?

Bard: The aqueduct!

Laketown guy: Piss off! We're not from Dale


acheron
Gondor


Jul 10 2012, 11:17am


Views: 11462
YEAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

*puts on sunglasses* Cool

(reference)

For instance, on the planet Earth, man had always assumed that he was more intelligent than dolphins because he had achieved so much -- the wheel, New York, wars, and so on -- while all the dolphins had ever done was muck about in the water having a good time. But conversely, the dolphins had always believed that they were far more intelligent than man, for precisely the same reasons. -- Douglas Adams


eralkfang
Lorien


Jul 10 2012, 11:52am


Views: 11598
Exactly.

I was actually looking up costume reference for Fili, so I was happy to find some shots of Fili and Kili during the barrel scene when they're coatless. There, you get to see that both Fili and Kili have padding, like the other dwarves, and the thicker hand prosthetics, which makes them look, well, more dwarven! (Personally, I think Fili is the very picture of a handsome young dwarf.) [url= "http://heirsofdurin.files.wordpress.com/2012/06/untitled-60-copy.jpg"]Here's a shot of Fili, here's a shot of Kili.

I also hope that there will be endless jokes at Kili's expense about his lack of a beard and general , especially given the dynamic that audition packet told us they were going for with them.


imin
Valinor


Jul 10 2012, 12:40pm


Views: 11334
Fili looks dwarven

Kili, i am still not sold on it. For me he just looks like a man. I think its nothing to do with his body as like anyone elses they can do what they think will make him look more dwarven. I just dont think his face looks particularly dwarven, maybe due to lack of beard or just his bone structure, or both.

I dont think it will detract from the film or anything, just if i think about how he looks he just isnt a dwarf to me, haha. The main thing is that his performance is excellent and very convincing which i am sure it will be, this is the main thing after seeing them all for a minute or so that will be the deciding factor.


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 10 2012, 12:53pm


Views: 9762
Thanks for these, they're awesome B-) //

 



The Plan 9 Interview... in celebration of the 10th anniversary of the release of The Fellowship of the Ring.


TheSexyBeard
Lorien

Jul 10 2012, 1:39pm


Views: 9946
Wow!

What brilliant surprise! Everything looks great! Personally I never had much of a problem with the Wargs from the trilogy but I could see why people didn't like them so its cool to see a more "traditional" design thats looks suitably intimidating and almost demonic. It's definitely another warg in the background of the burning forrest image, I'm sure it's the same one howling in the foreground. Beron also looks great, I was expecting him to look bigger though but I do like the strands of hair hinting at his human form.

Also worthy of a mention is that in the Bag-end shot, you can clearly see one of Dwalin's axes that can sometimes be seen on his back in some of he vlogs.


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 1:43pm


Views: 11515
Thanks Dan...

I was quite proud of my Menegroth discovery... but no-one else seems to care Frown lol Tongue


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 1:48pm


Views: 11365
So what do you think happens to Orcrist? (spoilers)

Do you think Bilbo will steal it? I don't think the elves would be very willing to give such an important elvish sword back to a dwarf. Maybe Thorin doesn't get it back until he's dead? Frown


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 1:52pm


Views: 9888
If you have windows 7...

Go into "Personalize>Desktop Background" there's an option at the bottom "Change picture every:" If you save all the pictures in a special folder then your background will keep changing Wink


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 2:03pm


Views: 11508
I think it's an excellent discovery!

Don't despair - just that there's so much to take in at the moment. Smile


imin
Valinor


Jul 10 2012, 2:08pm


Views: 11455
Dont feel sad!

It was a good find Smile, i think this thread is just moving so fast its hard to keep pace with everyone's posts. I know when i went to bed then woke up, the thread was 3 pages longer!

Edit - so fast in fact that dormouse responded to you whilst i was writing my post, haha!


(This post was edited by imin on Jul 10 2012, 2:08pm)


rings7
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 2:20pm


Views: 11355
Ok

I was simply restating what others were saying. Nothing more.


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 10 2012, 2:24pm


Views: 11259
I too noticed the similarity to Alan Lee's illustration from COH

You're not alone Cool



The Plan 9 Interview... in celebration of the 10th anniversary of the release of The Fellowship of the Ring.


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 10 2012, 2:26pm


Views: 11480
*SPOILER* In the book...

... Thranduil lays it upon Thorin's breast as his body is laid to rest under the Mountain.

And it was said that ever after the blade glowed in the darkness so that the Mountain was never taken by surprise.



The Plan 9 Interview... in celebration of the 10th anniversary of the release of The Fellowship of the Ring.


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Jul 10 2012, 2:33pm


Views: 11427
Does this mean -


Quote
And it was said that ever after the blade glowed in the darkness so that the Mountain was never taken by surprise.


- a possible War in the North movie?


artemy
Lorien


Jul 10 2012, 3:02pm


Views: 11374
Excellent arguments!

I couldn't agree with you more Marillaraina, though I think I ought to warn you now that Shelob isn't one to give up Wink

And holy beards, this thread is moving fast, I experienced the same three-page-long growth spurt overnight. Just goes to show that this is the most exciting bit of news so far.

On the subject of new costumes, I remember seeing a scale double wearing a sort of harlequin print, multicoloured affair that for whatever reason immediately made me think of Bombur. I know this occurred at a different point in the story since the dwarves were riding skewbald ponies (there weren't any of that type in the former, shaggy batch).

~Beneath the sun, all things must wear to an end at last~

(This post was edited by artemy on Jul 10 2012, 3:08pm)


QuackingTroll
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 3:15pm


Views: 11203
Ah, so in the book...

Thorin doesn't get the sword back until this point? That makes it much more touching than how I remember it...


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 10 2012, 3:18pm


Views: 11435
Right!

It's taken from him during his capture and handed back as a token of honour by Thranduil.



The Plan 9 Interview... in celebration of the 10th anniversary of the release of The Fellowship of the Ring.


vexx801
Rivendell

Jul 10 2012, 3:18pm


Views: 9680
Bilbo in Mirkwood

It could be that the image of Bilbo holding his sword is actually from Riddles in the Dark. There is (from what I can see) a lack of webs on Bilbo, and it looks as if he sees something rather curious. It could be in the actual Mirkwood scene, to be sure, but it may also be from a different scene.


Magpie
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 3:34pm


Views: 9692
There's an 'add-on' (or whatever you call it) for older Windows that does the same thing

I have it for XP. I have a huge collection of wallpapers it cycles through.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 3:35pm


Views: 11206
no.

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Zubeneschamali
The Shire

Jul 10 2012, 3:41pm


Views: 9682
Sting and spiders

Sting does indeed glow when fighting spiders in the book.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 3:47pm


Views: 11040
Is .... that Quint of AICN?

I don't know him...
Speaking of which...Whatever happened to his
NEWS?
BOMBY


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 10 2012, 4:02pm


Views: 9645
Heck, no!

People seem to forget that Tolkien wrote LOTR and the to be Hobbit different, so I don't know why we're so obsessed with making the movies be the same.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 4:06pm


Views: 11294
I have one question.

Do you ever have anything positive to say?

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 10 2012, 4:17pm


Views: 11182
Is this really necessary?

There is nothing in the posting guidelines that requires posters to be positive. Ever.

As long as SA isn't picking on another poster, s/he can be as negative as s/he wants to be.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


DarkJackal
Rohan


Jul 10 2012, 4:21pm


Views: 11162
Assume it's like the book...

...until proven otherwise. But I could see them not wanting to lose it from the screen, so maybe instead of Thranduil tossing into his closet and forgetting about it till the end of the story, he might use it during the BoFA. Otherwise I hope they follow the story in terms of returning it after the fact, and all the poignancy that it creates.


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 4:31pm


Views: 9609
I so hope our Attendees of CCSD get loads

Of these Scrolls..that they can pass on to us.

I'm Guessing anyone at the Q&A with/Peter/Richard/Andy& Martin
Will get signed ones...

Me?
I'd like to put my Name into a Hat to win one Now!!!

BOMBY


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 4:36pm


Views: 11047
It has nothing to do with guidelines.

And was just a question based on long term observation.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 10 2012, 4:51pm


Views: 10875
It comes across as thinly veiled criticism.

And just reading this entire thread should give you the answer...that yes, Shelob'sAppetite does say positive things, fairly frequently.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 10 2012, 5:07pm


Views: 11045
Think Positive

There are a number of positive comments from Shelob right here in this thread.


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 5:11pm


Views: 9600
Thanks for these!

Sorry Gandalf and ComicCon poster, I have a new one now! Laugh


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 5:12pm


Views: 11194
You were the only one to question my moth claim

I feel your pain Tongue


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 5:13pm


Views: 11128
Yeah, it adds up.


In Reply To
What's 13 + 1 + 1? Wink Those foreground characters are Fili, Kili, and Oin.



I need more sleep!

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 5:18pm


Views: 11109
was being dense....


In Reply To
There are 15 members of the company. The 13 dwarves, plus Gandalf and Bilbo.

Am I missing something?



And possibly somewhat sleep-deprived. You would think I'd have at least remembered the song, "Fifteen Birds"!

Aye-ya!

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 5:23pm


Views: 11238
Question answered....


In Reply To
Not sure where you mean or if you are kidding but the three people in the foreground on the hill picture are Kili, Fili and, I think, Oin(and the three people at the head of the line are Gandalf, Bilbo and I think Gloin)



I was being a dunce and forgot the true size of Thorin's company (including Gandy).

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


aifeme
Rivendell


Jul 10 2012, 5:34pm


Views: 11200
This looks photoshopped as hell

But still, it's awesomeCool


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jul 10 2012, 5:38pm


Views: 11093
Lol Bomby, you're so right! what on earth happened to his news (?) hehe...//

 

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!

________________________________________________

Laketown guy: What have the dwarves -ever- done for us?

Bard: The aqueduct!

Laketown guy: Piss off! We're not from Dale


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


Jul 10 2012, 5:40pm


Views: 11257
hey, I think Shelob's been remarkably positive in this thread :P hehehe. //

;)

Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!

________________________________________________

Laketown guy: What have the dwarves -ever- done for us?

Bard: The aqueduct!

Laketown guy: Piss off! We're not from Dale


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 5:41pm


Views: 11112
Any news that he *was* going to give us

has been superseeded by the trailer, all the vlogs, and all these posters and pictures. However interesting his stories may have been, I'm quite happy what we have received.

All we do is sit behind a computer and moan and type Cool


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 5:50pm


Views: 11162
Um

Have you read any of my other comments in this thread? Most of them are entirely positive (even gushingly so).

I have even been defending Beorn from some detractors!

So my question to you is: Why do you only pay attention if I say something critical?

Frankly, these kind of questions from you are getting tiresome, and boring. This is the last time I'll bother responding.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 5:52pm


Views: 11127
Thanks

And on top of this, I have been mostly positive in this thread! In fact, in the first few pages, I was gushing at about a post a minute! Smile


duats
Grey Havens

Jul 10 2012, 5:54pm


Views: 11023
Who's detracting from Beorn?

 


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 5:55pm


Views: 11178
If you truly want and answer to you question

And weren't just being disagreeable, lick here.

That's a record of all my posts. If you'd like, read them all and count what percentage of my posts are positive. You might be surprised by the result.

Cool


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 5:57pm


Views: 11042
Just a few folks who said he isn't big enough!

Not exactly detracting, but you know what I mean.

He looks just right, IMO. Though given that this is a photo shop job, he may end up being much bigger.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 6:08pm


Views: 9789
Criticism

need not be negative. I have not ignored your posts. (Both new and old) I have read most everything you have written here.

"Frankly, these kind of questions from you are getting tiresome, and boring. This is the last time I'll bother responding."

I am sorry I bored you. It was not my intent. KS


Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Daisy Gold
The Shire

Jul 10 2012, 6:18pm


Views: 11460
moth or butterfly?

  I took a closer look at the moth DanielLB. It could be a moth on the branch, maybe one of Radagast's. However I think they are the black butterflies that Bilbo sees at the top of the trees. At first I thought they were the autumn leaves in Mirkwood but now that I see a larger version of the scroll I think they may be the butterflies. I hope it's butterflies as I always enjoy that part of the story. What I don,t care for are the spiders. Are those spiders' legs by Bilbos feet?


artemy
Lorien


Jul 10 2012, 6:19pm


Views: 9882
Guys, if you must argue

can you please not do it here? Message each other privately or something, because it really inconveniences the other users who have to scroll through so many posts consisting only of bickering. I'd prefer you didn't argue at all, creates bad vibes - we're a community! Smile

Also DanielLB, I asked about the moth. Were you joking? I spent a while looking for it, before thinking that there's no way a single moth could live for sixty years.

~Beneath the sun, all things must wear to an end at last~

(This post was edited by artemy on Jul 10 2012, 6:19pm)


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Jul 10 2012, 6:58pm


Views: 11316
Beorn Bigger

I think you are right about this being a photo shop of Beorn and him likely being much bigger. After all he will be portrayed an almost 10 foot tall man in the movie, I would expect that perspective wise he will be much larger than the comparison to Gandalf. Overall I like the design.


Hanzkaz
Rohan

Jul 10 2012, 7:36pm


Views: 9761
Tolkien was always developing his works.


Quote
People seem to forget that Tolkien wrote LOTR and the to be Hobbit different, so I don't know why we're so obsessed with making the movies be the same.



Tolkien did try to strengthen the connection between the two stories, but realised that there was a risk of the Hobbit losing it's 'charm'.


With the movies, we can start off with the 'innocence' of the book and and by the end of the second movie find ourselves in LOTR territory.


For a 'children's book', the Hobbit has a lot of violence going on (killings, decapitation, torture, wholesale destruction of people and property, individuals getting eaten, etc). I'm not sure how you can put that on screen and keep it 'light'.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 10 2012, 8:28pm


Views: 9622
No worries

And I am flattered that you have been reading my posts! Though if you have been reading them, why would you ask a question that is obviously answered "no?"

I enjoy your contributions on TORN immensely. I am only bored by your queries about my alleged "100% negativity" which is both not the reality, and not a good characterization of my criticism.


Dlanor da Great
Rivendell

Jul 10 2012, 8:49pm


Views: 11190
But....

That bear in that pic looks about 10 feet tall.


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Jul 10 2012, 9:01pm


Views: 11290
10 feet tall

In the article from last year, Beorn the man was going to be 3 meters tall and that fits with the scale of Beorn's house and the chair we saw John Howe sitting in. The largest Kodiak bears of today can be between 12-14 feet tall standing on their hind feet. Beorn was a giant for a man, so I doubt his Bear form would be smaller than actual bears that exist in our own world. If you just did a straight comparison of Beorn to a normal man and used that ratio, the Bear should be a minimum of 20 feet on its hinds.


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 9:45pm


Views: 11081
Do I really have to lick there? /

 


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jul 10 2012, 9:45pm


Views: 9515
He would have looked much better, and more dwarfish if...

He had kept his natural beard that he had at the beginning, before filming began. I was pretty bummed when I saw they had gotten rid of it.


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 9:46pm


Views: 11119
I was only joking

Blush
I came into the thread pretty late and was expecting someone to have already asked it. So I thought I would start it!


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 9:46pm


Views: 9529
Sorry artemy! I missed your response.

I was only joking. I was hoping for people to look frantically.

I couldn't spot a moth anywhere Wink


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 9:51pm


Views: 11043
Still waiting for you to say where the moth is! //

 


Ardamírë
Valinor


Jul 10 2012, 9:54pm


Views: 9445
Darn you!

I want Radagast to turn into a moth!


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 9:56pm


Views: 11087
Sorry dormouse ... no moth ;-D /

 


dormouse
Half-elven


Jul 10 2012, 9:57pm


Views: 11052
Ah.. see

... there I was a couple of days ago scanning the panorama for a hint of moth, then I thought, 'bet he's joking', and stopped.

I could still be looking! Tongue


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 9:59pm


Views: 10990
I should have left it going

Wink
Now it would be ironic if there *was* a moth hidden away somewhere!


imin
Valinor


Jul 10 2012, 10:07pm


Views: 11109
I have to admit as well

You had me looking for a moth! Blush

Pesky DanielLB, haha!


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 10:09pm


Views: 11074
If I'd known people were looking....

I would've kept stum! Cool


artemy
Lorien


Jul 10 2012, 10:18pm


Views: 11119
Ah, we've been tricked!

How dare you get our hopes up like that Tongue

I have however noticed what looks like a ribcage near Bilbo's feet - probably elven I suspect. I believe in the book it does mention elves sometimes falling prey to the spiders?

Furthermore I suspect that Kili's primary weapon will be his bow and arrows. I say this because to my joy (since I adore such details) in the trailer he is seen to be wearing an archery glove.
It shows that PJ and RT are being more flexible with the weapons for each race, i.e. not dwarves must use axes, bows are for elves, or something like that.

~Beneath the sun, all things must wear to an end at last~

(This post was edited by artemy on Jul 10 2012, 10:20pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 10:23pm


Views: 11025
I spotted that too

Not sure it's an elf (and can't remember the reference you refer to?)

It could just be a shot of Bilbo from under the Misty Mountains, photoshopped into Mirkwood. Could be a goblin skeleton?


Bauglir100
Bree

Jul 10 2012, 10:32pm


Views: 11191
Actually...

I think the picture of the Dwarves climbing the Mountain was supposed to represent "Overhill and Underhill", but they put it before "A Short Rest", instead of after it.


artemy
Lorien


Jul 10 2012, 10:48pm


Views: 11071
Having perused my trusty 1997 Harper Collins edition

I couldn't actually find any mention of elves being eaten by spiders, only that the elves have no mercy on the latter and are profoundly pissed off when the dwarves rouse them. Guess my memory was playing tricks on me Frown

However I did find answers as to why in vlog 7 the other dwarves are carrying Bombur through Mirkwood (he fell in the river), and perhaps why Thorin is seen behind Bilbo shooting at something in another of them (the black stag, if they choose to include it). So I'm contented.

~Beneath the sun, all things must wear to an end at last~


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 10:53pm


Views: 11112
It's a white deer ;-)

Saying that, I need to re-read the book before the films come out!


artemy
Lorien


Jul 10 2012, 10:57pm


Views: 11328
Aha! You are wrong there

It's a black stag (which Thorin kills), followed by a white doe and fawns (which escape) Wink

The exact quote: "on the path ahead appeared some white deer, a hind and fawns as snowy white as the hart had been dark".

~Beneath the sun, all things must wear to an end at last~


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 10 2012, 10:59pm


Views: 11469
There we are then!

Evidence that I need to re-read it.

Sorry artemy Blush


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 11 2012, 12:08am


Views: 11224
oh, yeah, just greeeeaaaatttt, DanielLB

I've been searching for HOURS for this moth and NOW you tell us it's not there. Ahhh thanks for nothin.


Just kiddingWink

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 11 2012, 12:25am


Views: 11240
I would like to join you in defending Beorn's size

As others have said, we might not know if that's his actual size in the film because it could be a photoshop. But if that is his size in the film I think it's perfect.

I imagined his human form as being relatively close to that height, although we don't know for sure if he will be bigger. But I think it would make sense with him morphing into a bear of relatively the same height.

And he looks like he's slightly larger than the average bear, which I really like. I don't want to see a giant bear that's as relatively oversized as the Oliphaunts were (although I did like the size of the Oliphaunts). I always imagined Beorn just being a slightly larger than normal sized bear.

Hopefully, this won't become the new "Shelob" of the film. I remember a lot of people thought Shelob wasn't big enough, but I was completely fine with her size in the film.

What I have always been more excited to see is what Beorn looks like in Human form. It's easy to picture a bear. But I feel weird for being the only one who is more interested in seeing Beorn in his human form. And I think I remember MP saying something about having to beef up for the role which will probably look pretty cool. Does anyone else remember him saying that?

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Ziggy Stardust
Gondor


Jul 11 2012, 12:39am


Views: 9719
Tempted, so tempted

I probably shouldn't be replying to this thread, because I did not look at the pictures, but after reading the comments, the pictures sound really good. I'm so tempted to look at them, but since there is a spoiler warning, I'm afraid to, lest I spoil it for myself. Crazy

"It's okay, I feel like getting up and screaming every time you walk into a room." -Lestrade, Sherlock S2,ep3.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 11 2012, 12:43am


Views: 9625
How about...

...copying the link to this thread (click on 'Copy Shortcut' beneath the OP's avatar) and save it into a document. If you do this for any other spoilerific images or information, you'll at least know that once The Hobbit is released you'll have a lot of delicious reading and images to indulge in. :)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 1:04am


Views: 11230
Of course you do

It's the only way.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 1:06am


Views: 11002
You are definitely not the only one...

I think most of us are dying to see Persbrandt as Beorn in human form.

We've all seen bears before, but none of us have seen a filmic interpretation of the human Beorn. Almost everyone is anticipating that.

Just be prepared for him to be blonde. Wink


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 11 2012, 1:16am


Views: 10908
I'm not convinced he will be

I'm definately certain that there is not a single blonde hair anywhere on that heavily photoshopped image of Beorn...it's definately just lighting. I think that earlier in the thread you mentioned that the image is backlit, so the top of his shaggy head wouldn't by highlighted in that way, but I just put that down to the photoshop job. This whole scroll is a series of composite images, and I'd say that the image of Gandalf, Beorn and the eagles is no different. Chances are that Beorn in bear form, lighting and all, was superimposed onto this image along with the other components.

Persbrandt's Beorn may very well be blonde, but IMHO there's nothing in the image that supports that theory unequivocally. In any case, wouldn't a predominately dark-furred bear look a bit strange with a mop of blonde hair on on top?


(This post was edited by Spencissimus on Jul 11 2012, 1:22am)


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 11 2012, 1:19am


Views: 11127
Actually

The funny thing is that when they had cast Mikael Persbrandt I actually envisioned Beorn as being a more blond haired fellow. I don't know why.

Shelob, you are always good with the historical references with Tolkien's work. Do you by any chance know exactly what "ethnicity" Beorn was kind of based off of? Like the Dwarves are Norse influenced if I'm not mistaken and Rohirrim were Anglo-Saxon/Viking/Danes influenced (actually if you could tell me what exactly the rohirrim were influenced by that would be great because I hear all sorts of answers).

I heard that Beorn is supposed to be Scandanavian influence so how does that work out with the blong hair?

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


artemy
Lorien


Jul 11 2012, 1:24am


Views: 11098
Forgive me as I know I'm not Shelob

but Beorn's name was taken from Björn, which means "bear" in Icelandic, Swedish, Norwegian and Danish. I also know that in the Norse mythos the berserkers (to which Beorn is comparable) could sometimes take the form of bears, or at least wore bear skins in battle. And traditionally Scandinavians are associated with blond hair and blue eyes Blush

~Beneath the sun, all things must wear to an end at last~

(This post was edited by artemy on Jul 11 2012, 1:32am)


ElendilTheShort
Gondor

Jul 11 2012, 1:31am


Views: 11027
I wanted to see at least a part of a spider

such as a leg or one curled up like Shelob in ROTK, or even part of a head and eyes poking around a tree trunk but no such luck.

Wasn't Beorn noted as having black hair on his limbs and head....just asking casue I don't have the books with me. In the scroll Beorn T. Bear looks like he has blonde side burns.

Noticed a couple of inconsitencies if you will, regarding the book in the first shot. Any one else see them. Not complaining mind you as this scroll is O for awesome.


(This post was edited by ElendilTheShort on Jul 11 2012, 1:35am)


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 11 2012, 1:40am


Views: 11162
Beorn hair color

Yes.

"He is a skin-changer. He changes his skin; sometimes he is a huge black bear, sometimes he is a great strong black-haired man with huge arms and a great beard."


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 2:24am


Views: 11178
Beorn

The word itself, in Old English, definitely meant "man" or "warrior." However, there are some who theorize that in early Old English (or Anglo-Saxon) the word meant "bear" as does "Bjorn" in Old Norse.

Skin-changers, including those that transform from bear to human, appeared occasionally in Scandinavian myth.

Norse bersekers, who sometimes wore bearskins, were sometimes identified as skin-changers.

That's about all I know.


Sunflower
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 4:07am


Views: 11173
My thoughts exactly.

Wouldn't want to give *everything* away all at once, now would we? That might be the studio plan.
And that's the way I like it. I'd rather walk in and discover Radagast, Thranduil, The Master et al on the big screen. At some point I will have to learn to block spoilers. Let's see what Comic-Con reveals.

All aside, the storybook looks *fantastic*. beautiful and epic. I've read TH many time the past 3 yrs and sorted out both my intitial "book-vision" of M-e with the Peter's version, ie the look of it. And curious to say, so far the film Hobbit is unexpectedly shaping up to be as epic as its predecessor. that bridge for example. Just as I pictured the doors of Moria being much larger thanthey are in FOTR, just so I picutured the Bridge being much smaller.

Note to the marketing team: can I have this "storybook" as a 2012-2013 calendar please??! I might like it even better than one with film images!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 11 2012, 4:54am


Views: 10998
: -)

Cool

In Reply To
The 'new and improved' wargs look awesome, as does the 'bear' form of Beorn.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 11 2012, 5:08am


Views: 11063
Amen.

Wonderfully stated my friend.

In Reply To
(All Wargs are Wolves) but all Wolves are not Wargs.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 11 2012, 6:55am


Views: 10822
Scared ... /

 


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jul 11 2012, 7:40am


Views: 10833
I'm silently scouring the images for flying moths as well...

... however, I feel if they're included at all, they'll be held back as a surprise for the LOTR fans.

I remember how my heart skipped a beat when I saw the moth flutter before Gandalf at the Black Gate. I literally gasped "Eagles" (I hadn't read the book yet so I had no idea what was going to happen!), and sure enough, the next scene showed the Eagles all majestically flying down to the battle Heart



The Plan 9 Interview... in celebration of the 10th anniversary of the release of The Fellowship of the Ring.


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 11 2012, 12:16pm


Views: 10792
I expect, redgiraffe, that Shelob can add a bit more

to my response about the nature of the Rohirrim. I was studying both Anglo-Saxon and Old Norse when I first picked up LotR and I was blown away by the Anglo-Saxon nature of the Rohirrim and Tolkien's interpretation of these people.

A few clues: words like Rohirrim and Eorlingas are A-S plurals. Many of the names are A-S in origin. When Theoden is called "Theoden king", this reversal of word order is AS - it would have been "Theoden cyning". Their language is an interpretation of A-S. Their poetry is set out in an identical way with the heavy use of alliteration. The thoughts involving the passing of all things can be found in similar A-S poems. Their behaviour in battles is A-S as when Eomer becomes strange and fey and plunges back into the battle when he thinks Eowyn is dead.

I think that Tolkien was trying to show different "aspects" of the origins of the English: the Elves have a Welsh slant like the Ancient Britons/Celts who lived in England before being driven "into the West". The men of Gondor in their nature and their architecture seem like the Romans who invaded the country. The dwarves are like the Norsemen who settled in the north-east of England. The Rohirrim are the Anglo-Saxons who took over much of England. The hobbits are pre Industrial Revolution country people. I could go on. But this is just my opinion - I've read no scholarly books.

The only way in which they are not typical Anglo Saxons is in their use of horses. The Anglo Saxons were not "horse lords."


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 11 2012, 12:24pm


Views: 10723
Mercia specifically

Tokien's specialty was the Mercian dialect of Old English, which is what the Rohirrim speak. In addition, the names of several kings of Rohan are the names of actual kings of Mercia. Further, the word "Mercia" comes from the fact that the area was referred to as "the march(es)" ("mearc", pronounced approx "mark"). Except for the horse thing you mention, Rohan is Mercia.


(This post was edited by dave_lf on Jul 11 2012, 12:31pm)


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Jul 11 2012, 12:56pm


Views: 10675
Beorn has to be extraordinary to even slightly larger than normal bear

Beorn is the deciding factor and a force unto himself in a battle where the Elven host of Thranduil, Dain's Dwarves, Thorin & Co., The Great Eagles, Gandalf, and the Men of Laketown were losing to the Goblin horde of the Misty Mountains until his arrival. It was his arrival and his assault that turned tide. He was such a frightening factor, it was destruction of Bolg and his bodyguard that caused dismay to fall on the Goblins. According to the book 3/4 of the whole of the Goblins in the Misty Mountains perished in that battle. It would take something spectacular to creates such dismay on a horde of that size. I just don't see a normal size or slightly larger than normal size bear pulling that off.

"In that last hour, Beorn himself had appeared — no one knew how or from where. He came alone, and in bear’s shape; and he seemed to have grown almost to giant-size in his wrath.
The roar of his voice was like drums and guns; and he tossed wolves and goblins from his path like straws and feathers. He fell upon their rear, and broke like a clap of thunder through the ring. The dwarves were making a stand still about their lords upon a rounded hill. Then Beorn stopped and lifted Thorin, who had fallen pierced with spears, and bore him out of the fray.
Swiftly he returned and his wrath was redoubled, so that nothing could withstand him, and no weapon seemed to bite upon him. He scattered the bodyguard, and pulled down Bolg himself and crushed him. Then dismay fell on the Goblins and they fled in all directions."


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 11 2012, 1:03pm


Views: 10662
Size of Beorn

I never got the impression that Beorn (man or bear) was supposed to be abnormally large. Big sure, but within the normal range of variation for each species.

He seemed to have grown almost to giant-size. "Seemed to" means he didn't really, "grown" implies he was smaller before, and "almost to giant-size" means he still doesn't even seem that big. :)


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Jul 11 2012, 1:18pm


Views: 10591
Beorn size

Well, if Bilbo who was 3'6" could trot between his legs and not duck for a tunic that came to his knees, that would make him at least a 10 footer. 3 meters(9 feet 9 inches) was used in an article from last year about Persbrandt and based on the scaling of the photos of Beorn's house, his statuette, and his chair from the Production VBlog that all seems to jibe so we can assume PJ is taking his description pretty literally from the book. Most of the artistic interpretations over the years in the various illustrated versions of the Hobbit tend to depict him enormously.

As far as the BoFA, his arrival broke the back of the horde of all the Goblins of the Misty Mountains that were prevailing up to that point. I just don't see a "grizzly bear" doing that. I think the following illustrations should and I hope were a guide post.

http://www-images.theonering.org/torwp/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/beorn.jpg

http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/thumb/2/23/Matt_Stewart_-_The_Battle_Under_the_Mountain.jpg/397px-Matt_Stewart_-_The_Battle_Under_the_Mountain.jpg


(This post was edited by BeornBerserker on Jul 11 2012, 1:25pm)


dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 11 2012, 1:29pm


Views: 10721
Heroes

The goblin host is also dismayed by the sudden appearance of Thorin and his 12 companions. Tolkien's world is one in which individual heroes can hold their own against entire hosts of extras. It's like he anticipated the movie and videogame industries by a couple decades. :)

You have a point with the tunic thing, though.


(This post was edited by dave_lf on Jul 11 2012, 1:30pm)


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Jul 11 2012, 2:03pm


Views: 10797
Thorin & co. attack was quick and crumbled when he reached Bolg's bodyguard

Thorin's charge while heroic was a momentary event in the battle that soon turned badly against him. His presence and he and his company outfitted in the best arms and armor of all of Erebor certainly created a fierce charge and heroic but short lived. Beorn's assault was so fierce he scattered the Goblin army. I concede how subjective the imagery that the description of that battle can create and I am sure there are 1000 visual interpretations one could create.


imin
Valinor


Jul 11 2012, 2:39pm


Views: 11066
Large Kodiak bear is 10 ft tall

That is considered a large size (height) for a male. The largest ever Grizzly bear was 14ft tall - to the top of its head when on two legs and was 1600lbs! It was 6ft tall when on all fours - that for me would mean its looking me dead in the eye when its walking around on all four legs! I wouldnt even come up to half way its body when on hind legs, this is an incredible size if you ask me. There are photos of this giant bear but i wont link them because it was hunted and they are not pretty, but there if people want to see and the photos are incredible.

Goblins were meant to be shorter than men, so this is getting on for 3 times the size and many many times their weight, im guessing 10 times their weight (each being around 160lbs).

I dont see it as a big deal if they made Beorn in bear form to be 15-20ft but any more than that would be getting a little much and i would prefer the 15ft mark which is a giant of a bear.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 5:08pm


Views: 11208
Yes. Mercia...

With a dash of Goths of the plains... Essentially, they were what Mercians might have been like if they didn't live in England...

That's why I always thought of Rohan as being a loose analog of the Central-Eastern European plain.


(This post was edited by Shelob'sAppetite on Jul 11 2012, 5:12pm)


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Jul 11 2012, 6:05pm


Views: 10850
In addition to what others have already posted ---

Tolkien stated in a letter that:

Quote
The hobbit's (Bilbo's) journey from Rivendell to the other side of the Misty Mountains, including the glissade down the slithering stones into the pine woods, is based on my adventures in 1911*

and there are other signs in his works of the influence that 1911 trip to Switzerland had on him. He crossed the Bernese Alps into Canton Valais, so even something as simple as the mascot/symbol of Canton Bern might be a connection as well. Traditional lore:


Quote
...The people maintain that Bern is derived from Bear, and in proof of their assertion they will take you to see an old weather-beaten stone which is built into one of the bridges, and bears the following enigmatical inscription:--
ERST BAER
HIE FAM.
This stone is said to have stood on the spot where the bear, from which the town took its name, was captured. The story is told by the good old Conrad Justinger, who was recorder of Bern till the end of the fourteenth century, and was commissioned by the town-council to write a chronicle of the past history of Bern and the most remarkable facts relating to the town. In his simple yet stately way he writes as follows:--"How the town was called Bern! There were a great many wild animals in the oak forest, and Duke Berchtold and his councillors determined that the town should be called after the first animal that was caught there; and the first that was caught happened to be a bear, so the town was called Bern; and he gave the burghers a shield and armorial bearings, namely, a black bear on a white field."

Canton Bern is the "Rivendell" side of the Bernese Alps, so Beorn's home would be on the Canton Valais side and across the river Rhone, but he "came from the mountains". And it may not be a carrock, but that bear stone does happen to be on a span crossing the water.

There is also some Swedish blood in the section of Canton Bern that seems to have influenced him most, so who knows? Personally, I think he had multiple influences for many things in his stories rather than a single source per item, and it's fun to speculate!

**********************************

NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011

(This post was edited by Eowyn of Penns Woods on Jul 11 2012, 6:13pm)


HoboVagabond
Registered User

Jul 11 2012, 7:35pm


Views: 9309
What I think Beorn is saying to Gandalf...

"Only you can prevent forest fires!" :-)


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 9:11pm


Views: 10973
After a while

Viewers get desensitized to impossibly massive CGI creatures on screen. I think if you create a bear that is in the realm of possibility, but still very big compared to most bears, you might have a more solid and believable character.

I think Beorn should be huge, but not three-story building huge.


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Jul 11 2012, 9:24pm


Views: 10924
I agree

Of all the art, I think this is the one that represents the scale I would like to see and how I think he fits into the narrative of the BoFA.

http://tolkiengateway.net/w/images/thumb/2/23/Matt_Stewart_-_The_Battle_Under_the_Mountain.jpg/397px-Matt_Stewart_-_The_Battle_Under_the_Mountain.jpg


imin
Valinor


Jul 11 2012, 9:28pm


Views: 10808
Love that picture

Really captures the ferocity and intensity of the battle i think. Though its hard to tell how big Beorn is in it as he looks to be on higher ground. I would guess about 30-40ft tall on back legs in that photo. For me that is over sized but not by much, if he was just a bit smaller i would be happier but its nit picking, lol.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 9:35pm


Views: 10886
Way too huge

I am primarily concerned about the "green scrubbing bubbles" effect.

If Beorn is absolutely massive, then it will seriously reduce tension on the battlefield, just as the Army of the Dead did on the Pelennor.

If he is so massive as to seem invincible, the battle will lose its dramatic punch, and audience's will get that familiar feeling of "Oh yes, this is the bit when the invincible CGI character wins the battle, thus rendering all of the previous fighting irrelevant."


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jul 11 2012, 9:41pm


Views: 10814
Tolkien wrote

Beorn swelled to even bigger size in his wrath and hit the orcs from behind thus saving the day (plus the eagles).


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Jul 11 2012, 9:44pm


Views: 11165
Dues Ex Machina

He may seem invincible but according to the narrative he was. Nothing could withstand him, no weapon could bite upon him. His role in that battle was the darkest hour dues ex machina device. He doesn't arrive until all seems lost.


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 9:51pm


Views: 11064
Understood

But that doesn't mean it will work well on film. If I were PJ, I would make Beorn a little more vulnerable, though still horrifyingly destructive. Sort of like the cave troll in the FOTR movie.

Another problem, IMO, is that we have been fed such a non-stop diet of rampaging massive CGI creatures, that we no longer find them very impressive.

At least, I don't.


imin
Valinor


Jul 11 2012, 10:07pm


Views: 10986
I agree with what you are saying

But i think with PJ bigger is better so i think Beorn is going to be unbelievably big, too big like the oliphaunts were. If anyone bothers to look for the photos of the massive bear, then they will realise just how big it is and that by increasing it another 5ft would make it seem enormous without being stupidly big. At least thats my opinion.

When i make TH i will make the beorn i want, haha.


Magpie
Immortal


Jul 11 2012, 10:13pm


Views: 10963
remember the story about the weapon the WitchKing used against Eowyn?

PJ kept asking for bigger... bigger... bigger... until it was so big, Lawrence Makoare (a massive man) couldn't lift it any more. A crew member had to lay on the ground and help lift it up for the shot.

He reminds me of my inlaws who built everything at least 1 and a half times the size most people would. Bird houses... picnic tables.. and the 150 lb, 17 foot kayak made out of three-quarter inch exterior plywood sitting in our backyard.

It's for sale, btw.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Shelob'sAppetite
Valinor

Jul 11 2012, 10:16pm


Views: 10958
Oh yes

I fully expect PJ to amp Beorn up to the size of King Kong.

This image on the EW scroll is either just the result of loose photo-shopping, or represents Beorn in his early stage of transformation.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 11 2012, 11:13pm


Views: 10920
LOL, I hope you are joking about the King Kong size

"If I were PJ, I would make Beorn a little more vulnerable, though still horrifyingly destructive."

That's why I like him at the size he's at. If he's much much bigger he would just come off as an invincible creature which, to me, wouldn't add much tension to him being in the battle. But like you said, it would REALLY work to have him vulnerable but very horrifyingly destructive.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 11 2012, 11:24pm


Views: 10967
Thanks Shirehorse

I love the insight you have given me. I REALLY want to learn pretty much everything about the histories of Norse/Viking/Celtic/Anglo-Saxon/Danish/etc.

Unfortunately I never have the time. But the stuff is so interesting. And I guess it's interesting to me because that's where all of my ancestor's came from.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 11 2012, 11:34pm


Views: 10797
Thanks Dave_if, Shirehorse, and SA

I do have one question though. Why is it that when people talk about the influences of the Rohirrim, they often mention other cultures like the vikings, scandanavians and such?

Much sister theorized that Rohan took elements from many "similar" areas.

She pointed out that people often reference Beowulf as the major influence of Rohan. She said that although it was Anglo-Saxon literature it was actually based on the Danes. So perhaps that's part of the reasoning behind her theory of a mixing of cultures.

I'm pretty sure PJ mixed in a few different cultures that were "closely" related to A-S. Wasn't there a lot of Celtic knot-work on Meduseld?

I'm sorry for getting off topic but I just really like this discussion.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 11 2012, 11:37pm


Views: 10645
Also

I guess it would help if I told you guys that I really have no idea what the differences are between all of those cultures.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Carne
Tol Eressea

Jul 11 2012, 11:38pm


Views: 10796
Howard Shore used Norwegian "Hardingfeler (hardanger fiddles)" for the Rohan theme.

 


(This post was edited by Carne on Jul 11 2012, 11:38pm)


artemy
Lorien


Jul 12 2012, 12:07am


Views: 10930
From the DVD extras

Richard Taylor said the impression he got of the Rohirrim was "vikings of the plains", with horses instead of ships.

In particular I recall them drawing comparisons between Meduseld and Heorot, the drinking hall from Beowulf. Thus in the films they took a lot of influence from viking and saxon culture when designing the hall, as well as armour, weapons, and so forth.

Also Carne, the Rohan theme is one of my favourite pieces from the whole soundtrack, it's simply stunning~

~Beneath the sun, all things must wear to an end at last~

(This post was edited by artemy on Jul 12 2012, 12:08am)


droidsocket
Lorien

Jul 12 2012, 1:17am


Views: 10999
king kong too big...

But i am ok with him growing even larger for the battle.

This is my all time favorite art work of the Bofa:
http://www.kucg.net/uploadfile/huihua/yh/2011082208/1312575476832.jpg

And considering he is surrounded by 4 foot dwarves and 5 foot Orcs I think he is a good size.


BeornBerserker
Lorien

Jul 12 2012, 1:19am


Views: 9365
Not sure

I don't know how well it will work on film but his arrival will be well into the battle. It won't come until all armies clash in full out battle, Thorin & co. make their mighty charge and the Great Eagles join the battle. Beorn comes in the last hour. The Cave Troll in FotR was terrifying but it wasn't a game changer in a battle of thousands and either they keep that role as he played in the battle or they don't. I know you have been a critic of PJ deviating from Tolkien's humor, dialog, and narrative in LotR, why would you want that with Beorn here? He is one of Tolkien's great mysteries. Why diminish him?


Zubeneschamali
The Shire

Jul 12 2012, 8:29am


Views: 9255
Jackson's Kong was rather small.

PJs Kong was only 25 feet tall, about the same size as Kong was in most shots the original, but for some scenes, the original Kong was 40 or 50 feet tall. The 1976 Kong was 40-60 feet tall.

Arguably, Aragorn should have been eight feet tall in LotR, but PJ didn't go there, and Elrond and especially Galadriel were a bit runty looking, too.

So he's not just for bigger is better.


malickfan
Gondor

Jul 12 2012, 10:29am


Views: 10745
Well in an EMPIRE Article last year it mentioned they are deisgning a new 'grand' entrance to Rivendell...

...It could be the bridge over rivendell taken out of context, we aren't likely to get the tra-la-la elves but the party crossing over the bridge into Rivendell would be a nice nod, and to me it looks like it coudl belnd int with Rivendell or perhpas be a bridge they added into the Misty Mountians segement...

‘As they came to the gates Cirdan the Shipwright came forth to greet them. Very tall he was, and his beard was long, and we was grey and old, save that his eyes were keen as stars; and he looked at them and bowed, and said ‘All is now ready.’



dave_lf
Gondor

Jul 12 2012, 1:04pm


Views: 10824
Anglo-Saxon vs. Norse

The Anglo-Saxon and Norse languages and culture have a fairly recent common ancestor in Old German. In addition, there was a tremendous amount of contact between the two during the period when Beowulf was written, which further increased the overlap. Beowulf was written by a Christian Anglo-Saxon, but the characters are all Danes, and the thing is rife with pagan influence. It seems to be a Christian, Anglo take on what was at the time a well-known pagan, Norse legend.

Long and short is that dark-age Anglo-Saxon and Norse cultures were very similar, to the point that the distinction almost doesn't matter to the typical modern layman (though it certainly does to linguists and historians). The Rohirrim are clearly meant to be Anglo-Saxons rather than Norse, but the Norse are better-known, so that's what the average person thinks of when he sees them (and writes in his review).


_V_
Lorien


Jul 12 2012, 1:33pm


Views: 10247
Del Toro mentioned changing th Wargs

I went to a Q&A a few years ago and even then, Del Toro said that one of the major design changes he wanted to make was that he wanted the Wargs to look like classic northern wolves from fables.

I actually really like the Hyena-Warg design that Weta made, emphasizing that "this is some sort of cousin to the modern wolf, but within the wolf family" -- much as Oliphaunts are different from regular Elephants -- but I still missed having classic wolf designs.

But hey, there's nothing saying that there can't just be different "breeds" of Wargs.

ReVolution of Evangelion

"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game"


Formerly known on TORN as "Draug the Unspeakably Violent"



DanielLB
Immortal


Jul 12 2012, 4:20pm


Views: 11817
Forgotten about that.

Good point, could well be a new entrance. Not sure how it could fit in the valley though.


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 12 2012, 5:24pm


Views: 11690
I agree with Dave

that the Anglo-Saxons and the Vikings and many other Scandinavian/Germanic people were culturally very close at the time. The Saxons in England, before they became Christians, believed in the Norse gods like Thor and Odin/Woden. Hence, our names for the days of the week: Wodensday, Thorsday, Freyasday etc. They dressed and did their hair in similar ways and had similar ways of fighting. The Vikings are called "Danes" by the Anglo-Saxons although they didn't all come from Denmark. To go "a-viking" (raiding) is what they did not who they were. The Normans who conquered England and came over from what is now France, were also Viking in origin or "Norsemen/Men of the North". They just got everywhere, LOL!

But, as Dave says, people recognise the Vikings and when they see a similar cultural group, they assume they are Norsemen. Simlarly, redgiraffe, you talk about Celtic knotwork. But Anglo-Saxon designs were very similar too and the word "Celtic" is a recent invention by people with a romantic attitude towards history.

This is a very, very interesting period in history. The popular novelist, Bernard Cornwell, has written a very enjoyable series of books about 9th C England when the Vikings invaded Anglo-Saxon England. His history is spot on, his hero, Uhtred, will remind you of Thorin and a final connection is that Richard Armitage has done a superb reading of one of the books, Lords of the North

http://www.amazon.co.uk/...342113494&sr=8-7

and

http://www.richardarmitageonline.com/...th-introduction.html

An easy and exciting way to get your history!


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Jul 12 2012, 8:34pm


Views: 11838
Interlacement and knotwork

isn't exclusively a British Isles area Celtic artform. There are a good many items of a more Germanic style which have been found in England. Norse zoomorphic designs don't always stand out much from the common Germanic group style. Interlacing is found in even more far-flung regions, but we're mainly interested in the Anglo-Saxon and Hiberno-Saxon tradition that merges into Celtic Art.

So, yes, it does all go together.

**********************************

NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 14 2012, 9:07am


Views: 12065
Well thank you everyone.

I'm glad there are others who are more knowledgeable about this subject than I am, and that seem to have a great amount of enthusiasm for the culture. This has been one area of history where I have never had a chance to learn about yet it is probably one of the most interesting to me, especially since there are so many connections to Tolkien and other great fantasy stories.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle