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Commonly misused phrases



Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 23 2012, 11:16pm


Views: 4517
Commonly misused phrases

This article is in our staff magazine and I thought the word-lovers among us would appreciate it.

Here is a short list of well-known phrases that are often repeated inaccurately or with with a key word misspelled. (Have you come across any others? Are there differences between countries?)

1. Hunger Pangs
Although hunger may indeed cause discomfort, there’s no such thing as a ‘hunger pain’. Hunger pangs, on the other hand, are the gnawing, severe muscle contractions that signal it’s time for dinner.

2. Whet Your Appetite
You might want to satisfy those hunger pangs with a tasty beverage, but ‘wetting your appetite’ is incorrect. To whet one’s appetite means to sharpen it, such as using a whetstone to sharpen or hone a knife.

3. For All Intents and Purposes
Not ‘all intensive purposes’, no matter how thorough those purposes might be.

4. Couldn’t Care Less
You care not one little bit, making a lesser level of caring impossible; whereas if you ‘could care less’, you do care at least a little bit, which is the opposite of the point you’re making.

5. Pique My Curiosity
To pique means to prick or stimulate, which is not to be confused with the homonyms peak (meaning apex) or peek (meaning glimpse).

6. With Bated Breath
‘Bated’ is a shortened form of ‘abated’, meaning held off or postponed. I would only bait my breath if I thought eating tuna then breathing out would lure in a cat.

7. Sleight of Hand
Although magicians might have slight hands with nimble and slender fingers, their art is called ‘sleight of hand’, which means deceit or dexterity.

8. Cut Your Coat According to Your Cloth
Sure you can just cut your cloth, but wouldn’t you rather make something out of the material?

9. Proof of the Pudding is in the Eating
This is often shortened to proof of the pudding which, while still correct, is annoyingly non-specific.

10. Hold the Fort
You do not ‘hold down the fort’ unless the fort is inflatable and it’s a windy day.

11. Champing at the Bit
If you don’t stop ‘chomping at the bit’ you’ll chew right through it – whereas champing means you’re impatient due to delay or restraint.

12. Change of Tack
While a socially awkward person might have a ‘change of tact', a person who tries a new approach will ‘change their tack’ (just like a yachtie does when sailing).

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Annael
Half-elven


May 23 2012, 11:22pm


Views: 3384
that doesn't faze me

but I may just be going through a phase Wink

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Hamfast
Rohan


May 23 2012, 11:27pm


Views: 3310
I know i'm guilty of using

# 5 and 7 Blush

That was cool Ataahua, I learned something !


Hamfast
Rohan


May 23 2012, 11:37pm


Views: 3364
OMG I just did this....

or is that why you remember it ? We were discussing scary movies and I mentioned that all of this scary stuff doesn't phase me....LaughLaughLaugh

I didn't catch it until after the edit window slammed shut. I'm such a loser.


Longbottom Leaf
Lorien


May 24 2012, 12:41am


Views: 3302
This was quite interesting....

and humorous. Thanks! It's funny how we use these incorrect common phrases sometimes without actually thinking about them. I'm guilty of #3 and now that I see it it seems so obvious. I guess I'm just a sheep in the ways of the phrase ha!

The best weed in the southfarthing!


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


May 24 2012, 1:00am


Views: 3311
Thanks for that! Really interesting! //

 

Visit Mexico from A to Z! Index to the whole series here.
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!



Magpie
Immortal


May 24 2012, 1:57am


Views: 3358
I do pretty well with those

although, I have to look up 'tack' to make sure I get it spelled correctly. I even got a compliment on an old post where I used 'bated breath' for getting it right.

It's a spelling thing.. not a phrase thing... but I always look up jibe - as in, two things that agree - to make sure I spell it right.

I probably say 'hold down the fort'.

One that people get wrong a lot - although it's a different category - is to substitute 'of' for the contraction 've. So would've becomes would of. Someone just made a joke on imdb that it was about time we joined the masses (that make that mistake) and made it Lord've the Rings.


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SirDennisC
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 2:16am


Views: 3217
"Anchors aweigh" not "anchors away" //

 


Delrond
Rohan


May 24 2012, 2:31am


Views: 3173
Hot water heater.

I'd say it's just a water heater. When the water is heated to "hot", it shuts off. If it didn't, you would have a steam generator, and a very dangerous one at that.

A few harmless flakes working together can unleash an avalanche of destruction.


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 24 2012, 2:33am


Views: 3312
Oh, "could of" drives me nuts.

Along with "pouring" over documents instead of poring over them. And I just saw someone on another site lamenting our nation's "deep seeded" issues, instead of our deep seated ones. *sigh* I guess most people have not been taught the context or meaning of a lot of these and so just go by ear.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 24 2012, 2:54am


Views: 3300
LOL!

I haven't come across 'deep seeded' before! I wonder if he thinks these deep-seeded issues will grow into problems if not nipped in the bud? Sly

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Annael
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 3:05am


Views: 3288
it wasn't you who piqued my response

I've caught a peek of this same mistake in the writings of many a person.

I blame Star Trek.

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967

(This post was edited by Annael on May 24 2012, 3:08am)


Elberbeth
Tol Eressea


May 24 2012, 3:08am


Views: 3211
That was great!

I fear for the state of the English language sometimes, especially reading 'comments' on the Net. And I'd like to be on the grammar police sometimes.

"There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark."


Elberbeth
Tol Eressea


May 24 2012, 3:09am


Views: 3443
Oh, and what about 'flaunt' and 'flout'?//

 

"There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark."


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


May 24 2012, 3:12am


Views: 3338
*weeps, wails, gnashes teeth, pulls out a few hairs* Find a happy place! Find a happy place!

Any room in the asylum for another? ;)

**********************************


NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


Morthoron
Gondor


May 24 2012, 3:24am


Views: 3192
For all intensive purposes...

This is a mute point, but we must not take it for granite. Sometimes what we say doesn't jive with what we mean and we redundantly repeat the same thing over and over again. Irregardeless, there is no escape goat and we must tow the line. There is no free rain when it comes to good grammer. We must hone in on what others say to, because it takes two to tangle.

Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.



zarabia
Tol Eressea


May 24 2012, 3:29am


Views: 3165
Misteaks, I've maid a few... but then again, two few too mention ;)

I don't think I've committed any of these mistakes, but goodness nose, I've maid many a mistake in my thyme. I usually no better, but I sometimes get in a hurry, or else I right while distracted. Precise expression is important, but its possible that sometimes in worrying two much about details, we may not give free rain too are thoughts. Wink



zarabia
Tol Eressea


May 24 2012, 3:51am


Views: 3411
This thread was a great ideal ;)

I used to work with a woman who would always say, "What a good ideal!" She was such a sweet woman, but it took all my will power to not scream, "Good idea! It was a good IDEA, not ideal!"


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 24 2012, 4:13am


Views: 3125
Oh well done.

You may be Evil, but you use your Evil for good. :D

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Radhruin
Rohan


May 24 2012, 4:24am


Views: 3269
Can anyone tell me where

"Speaking to" an issue originated?

As in "I can/can't speak to that".

I hear it so often on Public Radio, and it confuses me. This phrase is so pervasive in radio, or at least public radio. Where did it originate? I would love to hear why it is used so often, and where I am wrong in cringing when I hear it.

It seems as though "I can't comment on that", or "I agree/disagree with that" would suffice. What does it mean to "speak to" something, grammatically?

Great list! The words pang, whet, sleight, bate, and tack are likely to make even an English major twitch.

Words are wonderful, use them wisely. (I fail quite often, but I love learning)


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


May 24 2012, 4:34am


Views: 3087
You're not alone. //

 

**********************************


NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


Starling
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 5:15am


Views: 3153
I can't tell you where it came from, but I know where I'd like to put it

I'll speak to that one.
If there's one phrase I cannot stand, it's the above.
It is very common in the education sector here, and I absolutely hate it. Mad
People I work with are getting used to me rolling my eyes when someone says, "I'll talk to that report" or "I am going to speak to that achievement summary". I have been known to suggest that they talk about it instead. Or I may ask them if the report is going to talk to them, and whether the rest of us may join their conversation. Crazy


Starling
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 5:18am


Views: 3254
Well, I would of mentioned that one

because it drives me crazy too. But you all of beaten me to it.
I think I have some sort of deep seeded issue.


Nienna
Rohan


May 24 2012, 6:26am


Views: 3188
You really shouldn't encourage me like this!

My pet peeves aren't phrases, just words. For example:

The guy has prostrate cancer (I bite my tongue to keep quiet!)

They're playing the State of Oregon (this is a NZ/Aussie one - it's the players' State of Origin)

And the one that really annoys me is when I've said that a person hanged himself and people correct me saying that he hung himself - where on the wall?
Evil


dormouse
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 7:06am


Views: 3202
Not a phrase, but a word...

... which I keep coming across online and it catches me out every time..

Coworker

I know it's correct - well, I suppose it is. I know it's 'co-worker' but I just can't read it like that. Every time I see it written down I read cow-orker and think - 'what???'


Starling
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 7:12am


Views: 2581
I never heard anyone say

'State of Oregon'. I feel guttered mate.


DanielLB
Immortal


May 24 2012, 8:54am


Views: 2562
Not so much a phrase that is misused, but one that annoyes me:

To be honest

Whenever someone starts a sentence with this I just annoys me! And, to be honest, I do it myself for some reason!

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

Make sure you vote for your favourite characters!



imin
Valinor

May 24 2012, 10:44am


Views: 2457
Haha love them!

The one that gets me the most is could care less, when i went to america it confused me and i tried to explain to a few friends its couldnt care less but it just made them say could care less more, lol.

Here is a little youtube clip from David Mitchell - comedian from UK on couldnt/could. i have forgot how to link the clip, sorry about that. Its a great clip though, well unless you are American with no sense of humour!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw


SirDennisC
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 12:42pm


Views: 2494
Similarly (conversely?) "unthaw" or "dethaw" instead of

melt or thaw. For that matter I'm not sure unfreeze is correct either though I hear it a lot.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on May 24 2012, 12:43pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


May 24 2012, 1:27pm


Views: 2571
Two/too/to

I'm seeing them being mistakenly used for each other more and more in news stories. It doesn't really get me mad, per se. It's just I'm coasting along assuming I'm reading a professionally written and edited article and then it's jarring when it happens. Confusion over there/their/they're also seems to be getting common. Too much faith in auto-correct, I guess.

On the other hand, I know as an old country boy I probably set people off with how I write, what I say, and how I say it. For example, I often use "There's" as a contraction for "There are". Also I insist on putting two spaces after a period because that's the way I was taught. (Also I was taught there are supposed to be two spaces between the city and the zip code in an address. This was way back when zip codes first came out.) Also I always contend that the English vowels are "a,e,i,o,u, and sometimes y or w" because that's what Mrs. MacFadden said and she wouldn't lie to me.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Magpie
Immortal


May 24 2012, 1:40pm


Views: 2525
I always read ...

Smokerings (fellow message board member's online name) as

smoker ings

and the web address : marthastewart.com always read to me as martha's the wart.

but that's wandering a bit off topic.


LOTR soundtrack website
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Magpie
Immortal


May 24 2012, 1:47pm


Views: 2541
I think a lot of mistakes like this though...

are simply lack of proofreading. I know a lot of this pretty well (I'm not at the level of a good editor but I'm not too shabby, either).

I know the difference between they're and their and there.... and to/two/too. But I mix them up while typing all the time. I have to catch them when I proof and I don't always have time to proof. (seriously, a post of three good sized paragraphs might take me a half hour to write!) And somehow, I can read something on my website (where I do have the capability of editing unlike old posts on forums) ten times and find something I want to correct all 10 times.

It's not for lack of knowing... it's just for lack of proofing... or not proofing well enough.

I've noticed at ew.com where the goal is to get up an article about that tv show that just played as fast as possible, that the proofing is pretty much non-existent. But proofing, and proofing well (along with fact checking, another thing I'll spend lots of time doing), can double or triple the amount of time it takes to get an article online. I get why they don't (I think they come back later and do it) but it looks pretty awful on the screen while you're reading it.


LOTR soundtrack website
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Finwe
Lorien


May 24 2012, 1:48pm


Views: 2429
Evolution of Languages

It is amazing how quickly sayings, phrases, grammar, etc. evolve through time, especially by mistakes that have been pointed out in the thread. It does annoy me when professionals make errors like that, however, as they're supposed to know better.

As three great Jewels they were in form. But not until the End, when Fëanor shall return who perished ere the Sun was made, and sits now in the Halls of Awaiting and comes no more among his kin; not until the Sun passes and the Moon falls, shall it be known of what substance they were made. Like the crystal of diamonds it appeared, and yet was more strong than adamant, so that no violence could mar it or break it within the Kingdom of Arda.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 24 2012, 1:53pm


Views: 2472
Feed a cold; starve a fever

You feed a cold to keep up your strength; but you starve a fever to rob it of fuel.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 1:57pm


Views: 2564
Thank you! Thank you!

This sort of thing drives me up the wall! (Although I'm not yet to the point of hanging myself on it Smile )

Would've/would of. Your/you're. Discrete/discreet. Site/sight. Grisly/grizzly.The ghastly but ubiquitous apostrophe in it's, when it means the possessive its, NOT "it is"! And don't get me started on the horrors of the dangling participle. Crazy

Yes, I blame spell check, and simple carelessness as well. No one seems to have time to proofread any more, and I suspect that the first people laid off at publishing houses are the copy editors.

Gnashing of teeth here.

* * * * * * *
Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?

A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!


Darkstone
Immortal


May 24 2012, 2:06pm


Views: 2498
Yeah.

I'm occasionally chagrined to look back and find I've misused there/their/they're. And over years of writing reports I've definitely learned the value of getting a second pair of eyes to do a quick proof of something I've meticulously gone over a couple of dozen times before.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Annael
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 2:11pm


Views: 2511
a friend who is an editor complained to me

that people commonly use the past participle instead of the simple past tense nowadays.

I shrieked "SHRANK! SHRANK!" every time I saw the title "Honey, I Shrunk the Kid."

And I think half of the US says "I brung it" instead of "I brought it" and "I seen it" instead of "I saw it."

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Annael
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 2:14pm


Views: 2534
I got caught out on "there's" the other day

to make it worse, it was in a post correcting someone else's grammar. Blush

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Annael
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 2:19pm


Views: 2525
and spellcheck is useless for those mistakes

as I repeatedly pointed out to my writers who would dump their work on my desk and say "it shouldn't need much editing, I ran Spellcheck." Although that mostly stopped after the famous report went out (not my work) with the title "PUBIC LANDS IN WASHINGTON."

Spellcheck also would not correct "doe snot" to "does not" until we took "snot" out of the dictionary. And I had to write a macro for myself to automatically correct "tot he" to "to the," because I type it wrong every time.

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


DanielLB
Immortal


May 24 2012, 2:21pm


Views: 2628
Center, color, defense, favor, flavor, gray, jewelry, meter, neighbor, theater

The list is endless. Always tempted to correct American posters Tongue Laugh

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

Make sure you vote for your favourite characters!



JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 24 2012, 2:26pm


Views: 2529
"Professionals"

Word confusion in news stories happens because now everyone can be a journalist. The blogging landscape (blogosphere) is full of amateurs who do not have the same training and high standards of real professionals. Writers now defend their right to ignorance of the language and to use it as they wish. They would rather tell you to get a life and invoke Godwin's Law about those who appreciate good grammar than improve themselves.

If they are coming from professional news services, I would suspect the dilution of the profession into greater numbers is responsible for also diluting the greater sense of responsibility and accountability.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 24 2012, 2:28pm


Views: 2519
Learning

Glad to see you've learned to correctly spell all those.

Evil


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 24 2012, 2:33pm


Views: 2576
Spellcheckers: Candidate for a Pullet Surprise

Spellcheckers, the bane of modern existence...

Candidate for a Pullet Surprise
by Mark Eckman and Jerrold H. Zar

I have a spelling checker,
It came with my PC.
It plane lee marks four my revue
Miss steaks aye can knot sea.

Eye ran this poem threw it,
Your sure reel glad two no.
Its vary polished in it's weigh.
My checker tolled me sew.

A checker is a bless sing,
It freeze yew lodes of thyme.
It helps me right awl stiles two reed,
And aides me when eye rime.

Each frays come posed up on my screen
Eye trussed too bee a joule.
The checker pours o'er every word
To cheque sum spelling rule.

Bee fore a veiling checker's
Hour spelling mite decline,
And if we're lacks oar have a laps,
We wood bee maid too wine.

Butt now bee cause my spelling
Is checked with such grate flare,
Their are know fault's with in my cite,
Of nun eye am a wear.

Now spelling does knot phase me,
It does knot bring a tier.
My pay purrs awl due glad den
With wrapped word's fare as hear.

To rite with care is quite a feet
Of witch won should bee proud,
And wee mussed dew the best wee can,
Sew flaw's are knot aloud.

Sow ewe can sea why aye dew prays
Such soft wear four pea seas,
And why eye brake in two averse
Buy righting want too pleas.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Darkstone
Immortal


May 24 2012, 2:35pm


Views: 2476
Ow!

That's just painful for me to read.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Darkstone
Immortal


May 24 2012, 2:37pm


Views: 2432
10/10 //

 

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor


May 24 2012, 2:41pm


Views: 2531
Speaking of that particular typo...

Did you hear what happened to the University of Texas commencement program last weekend?

The Aggies are going to have a field day! LaughCool



And suddenly the Tornadoes saw afar off a greenlight, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame;
and they knew that this was no vision only, but that PJ had made a new thing: The Hobbit, the Film that Is.


imin
Valinor

May 24 2012, 2:45pm


Views: 2384
haha im tempted as well

though really they are written the way i would have if i had not been taught to put a u in colour etc by parents/school. As i have an American laptop however it always likes to tell me how wrong i am spelling things with English spellings of words - i know i can change the spell checker to 'proper' English, (just kidding) but cant be bothered and as people have said - spell checkers can get things wrong from time to time :P

Oh another one i write a lot is aswell instead of as well.

An irritating one that OP mentioned is hold down the fort, i never really got why that extra word was added in the first place?

To be honest (just for you daniellb that is, haha), i have poor grammar and spelling, which my housemate who did an undergrad and masters in English liked to make clear to me every day!


DanielLB
Immortal


May 24 2012, 2:46pm


Views: 2459
If I don't proof-read

I probably do spell words ending in -er rather than -re, and always miss out the second l in jewellery Wink


Edit: Very nearly started my subject title with "To be honest". Why oh why do I have to use it Pirate

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

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(This post was edited by DanielLB on May 24 2012, 2:48pm)


Darkstone
Immortal


May 24 2012, 2:50pm


Views: 2442
Maybe, maybe not.

First they're going to have to find someone on the A&M campus who can read...

Hook 'em Horns!!Wink

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



(This post was edited by Darkstone on May 24 2012, 2:53pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


May 24 2012, 2:51pm


Views: 2482
To be honest


In Reply To


To be honest (just for you daniellb that is, haha), i have poor grammar and spelling, which my housemate who did an undergrad and masters in English liked to make clear to me every day!



There is no real reason why I get annoyed with "to be honest". I think it's because I hear it all the time, in sentences such as:

"To be honest, I thought that was good"

Yes, there is nothing wrong with the sentence, but why would you not be honest?!

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

Make sure you vote for your favourite characters!



DanielLB
Immortal


May 24 2012, 2:56pm


Views: 2492
Someone may be able to answer this

When do you use oriented and orientated? Is orientated even a word (is it just orientation)?

I can never find a clear answer of the internet, and it frustrates me since I should know the difference because I use it often enough!

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

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JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 24 2012, 2:59pm


Views: 2461
To Be Honest, I Think...


In Reply To
Yes, there is nothing wrong with the sentence, but why would you not be honest?!

It is an attempt to emphasize candor so the reader knows it is not just empty, polite praise, or the reverse to cut more deeply. It is, however, considered just as redundant as prefixing "I think" to whatever you have to say about what you are thinking.


imin
Valinor

May 24 2012, 3:06pm


Views: 2477
It doesnt make sense really does it?

To start by saying to be honest. Does it mean the rest of the time someone is talking to you they are being dishonest? i think for me its more a saying especially as so many people use it that i know its basically lost any meaning.


Darkstone
Immortal


May 24 2012, 3:10pm


Views: 2524
Isn't it a British/American thing?

I understood that both mean the same, just that "oriented" was American, "orientated" was British. I do know back in the 1970s I heard British soldiers using the latter.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor


May 24 2012, 3:15pm


Views: 2494
Hey now!

Ice is no longer available in the drinks at the cafeterias at A&M.

The senior who knew the recipe graduated.

Laugh



And suddenly the Tornadoes saw afar off a greenlight, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame;
and they knew that this was no vision only, but that PJ had made a new thing: The Hobbit, the Film that Is.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


May 24 2012, 3:24pm


Views: 2488
There's nothing wrong with our (American) spelling...

It is simply different from your own.

A pet peeve, though, that I see here all of the time: to/too.

"Good and ill have not changed since yesteryear; nor are they one thing among Elves and Dwarves and another among Men. It is a man's part to discern them, as much in the Golden Wood as in his own house." - Aragorn


Elberbeth
Tol Eressea


May 24 2012, 4:00pm


Views: 2498
And what about the difference

between priorize and prioritize? To me the latter just sounds wrong.

"There are some things that it is better to begin than to refuse, even though the end may be dark."


imin
Valinor

May 24 2012, 4:14pm


Views: 2425
never heard anyone use the word priorize

only ever heard prioritise/prioritize, and when i put priorize into google it automatically changed it to prioritize, lol. So i guess for me priorize sounds really foreign. Maybe another american vs british thing?

I forgot to mention i think they mean different things. Prioritize means expressing the importance of something, u are making it a priority. priorize is a derivative of prior i am guessing and so expresses precedence at least that is how i think of those two, but im sure someone will come along and tell you what they really mean, haha


(This post was edited by imin on May 24 2012, 4:19pm)


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 24 2012, 4:15pm


Views: 2368
Prior...

Priorize: To list?

Prioritize: To put in order of importance.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on May 24 2012, 4:21pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


May 24 2012, 4:21pm


Views: 2476
Orientated is one of those stupid new "business-speak" words.

Like calendarize.

Yuck. Tongue



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


RosieLass
Valinor


May 24 2012, 4:23pm


Views: 2433
I disagree with the first one.

With the stomach issues I've been having the last year, I have hunger pangs and hunger pains. Cool



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Darkstone
Immortal


May 24 2012, 4:24pm


Views: 2434
Me neither.

And I think you're right, they wouldn't mean anywhere near the same thing.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Darkstone
Immortal


May 24 2012, 4:26pm


Views: 2387
Yes.

Wifey's hunger pangs can be quite painful.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 24 2012, 4:29pm


Views: 2476
Did you know

that they had to close the A&M library? Someone stole the book!

Then they were able to get it back, but had to close again, because the person had colored in all the pages.

(I wonder if my U. Texas/Austin-graduate brother still has his "101 Aggie Jokes" booklet...)

(Oh, I got an email from him today, he wanted to send my youngest a gift certificate, and wondered if Starbucks was "genetic". Yep, he really wrote that. Tongue)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 4:31pm


Views: 2471
Now, now....

The Gaffer graduated from A&M and I graduated from UT. We've made that mixed marriage last a long time! Tongue

Seriously, it's funny to go into other parts of the world and see what group is substituted for Aggies in that particular variety of joke. Blondes, even---it doesn't have to be a nationality or college!

* * * * * * *
Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?

A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!


Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 4:33pm


Views: 2467
This really sets my teeth on edge

For example, we enjoy watching American Pickers on the History Channel, but Mike and Frank, no matter how affable and knowledgeable, use horrible grammar. I'm always shouting at the TV after one of them says, "I seen" or "It was broke".

Aiieeee..... Shocked

* * * * * * *
Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?

A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!


Darkstone
Immortal


May 24 2012, 4:35pm


Views: 2470
A tornado hit the A&M campus!

It did 20 million dollars worth of improvements.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 4:38pm


Views: 2477
Yes, the joys of dialect....

I exchange Word files with friends in Australia and the UK. Each of us has our own software set to our particular dialect. Trying to ignore all the little red lines while I'm proofreading gets really annoying---although I suppose it's a good exercise in discrimination. Is that a typo, or is that his/her normal spelling that's only underlined on MY screen?

But, as Darkstone says, it's no good sending something out without running it past another pair of (reliable) eyes.

* * * * * * *
Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?

A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!


Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor


May 24 2012, 4:40pm


Views: 2480
Funnily enough,

I didn't attend either school. I went to St. Mary's U. so all I get to tell is Catholic jokes. Angelic



And suddenly the Tornadoes saw afar off a greenlight, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame;
and they knew that this was no vision only, but that PJ had made a new thing: The Hobbit, the Film that Is.


DanielLB
Immortal


May 24 2012, 4:44pm


Views: 2385
I'm only joking ;-) /

 

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

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DanielLB
Immortal


May 24 2012, 4:45pm


Views: 2404
It might be

I just can't find a clear answer on the internet Crazy

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

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JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 24 2012, 4:47pm


Views: 2439
Confused Words & Contradictions

Here's a small list of commonly confused words:

http://oxforddictionaries.com/...monly-confused-words

But sometimes the word itself is at fault for being self-contradictory and ambiguous depending entirely upon, and even within, context.

For example:

Sanction:
a. Authorized
b. Penalty

How do you interpret "The action was sanctioned?" Was the action authorized or was it penalized for being unauthorized? Go figure. A good writer will understand this problem and make it clear.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on May 24 2012, 4:51pm)


geordie
Tol Eressea

May 24 2012, 5:37pm


Views: 2402
Here! Here!

* I mean, Hear! Hear!

Smile


geordie
Tol Eressea

May 24 2012, 5:42pm


Views: 2426
I used to think a glacier was a bloke who fixed windows -

- but then, I also used to think Hertz van Rental was a Dutch painter.

Cool


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 24 2012, 5:49pm


Views: 2392
An A&M rocket scientist

announced he was going to lead an expedition to the Sun.

"But how will you withstand the heat of the Sun?" asked the U. Texas scientists.

"Ah, I've got that all worked out," he replied. "We're going at night."


Unfortunately, most of the jokes in that book are not repeatable on a family forum...Blush


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Darkstone
Immortal


May 24 2012, 5:58pm


Views: 2593
How many Aggies does it take to screw in a light bulb?

Just one, and he gets 3 hours credit!

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 24 2012, 7:25pm


Views: 2599
That one knots my knickers,


In Reply To
I often use "There's" as a contraction for "There are".



... purely because increasingly more TV and radio journalists are confusing singular and plural, and these people use language for a living! They should get this basic one right!

Just on this morning's radio a commentator said, "Where is the investigation? Where is the charges?"

ARE the charges! ARE!

(My tolerance for grammar flubs is low first thing in the morning.)

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


DanielLB
Immortal


May 24 2012, 7:34pm


Views: 2506
UK Schools

Now it may just be me (and others from the UK may also like to point out their experience), but I never really remember learning "grammar". Luckily my supervisor applauds my writing (although you wouldn't have guessed it by my posts....), but I never remember learning when to use the apostrophe, the comma, sentence structure etc. To me, the way I write today is from reading academic papers - not from my school days. I remember doing spelling tests, reading books and writing passages/own stories, but only have very vague memories of learning the English language (and I'm only 23, so it wasn't *that* long ago).

So maybe this is a problem. If I don't remember learning it, maybe schools are failing us (that's where the UK comes in, because I have no idea about other countries). On the other hand, it might just be. After all, I don't have the best memory and didn't really listen at school Unimpressed

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

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Darkstone
Immortal


May 24 2012, 7:57pm


Views: 2491
Yep.

I'm an old country boy. I'm *supposed* to sound ignernt! But they're paid money. They're supposed to be professionals.

******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”



JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 24 2012, 8:16pm


Views: 2450
Supply & Demand

With so many jobs open in the media with print going blog happy, the internet in general, and hundreds of lousy channels on TV instead of just a few, most of it tabloid, the supply of available jobs must be too great and the so the qualifications and standards must drop to meet the demand.

Ouch, look at that - a one-paragraph, run-on sentence. Shame on me. ;)


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on May 24 2012, 8:18pm)


Annael
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 8:19pm


Views: 2465
reminds me of the argument against overuse of "very"

I write these sentences on the board for my writers to compare:

He was an honest man.

He was a very honest man.

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Annael
Half-elven


May 24 2012, 8:25pm


Views: 2522
I'm starting to mix them up.

I read a lot of books & stories by Brits, so both sets of spellings look correct to me now. I also find myself saying "my family are coming to brunch" instead of "is" - "family" is singular in the US - and "I'm going on holiday" instead of "on vacation," etc., probably because of all the British movies I watch.

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 24 2012, 9:28pm


Views: 2468
Are / Is

I'm aware UK uses "are" for collective singular entities, which I forgive. ;) But more of those bloggers in the US I keep talking about seem to be picking up the bad habit of thinking this is correct. They write, for example, "Google are a good company." Gah! Google is one company - singular.

Maybe it's the spell checker, but what's really appalling is that they also don't seem to understand that the choice of "a" or "an" before a word is PHONETIC and they do not directly depend on the actual letter that begins a word. They will write "an unique..." Ugh. Far, far worse are actual professionals who speak and write "an historic..." Very common mistake. Now, for the Brits with the accent that drops the 'h' in fronts of words such that they say "'istoric," I suppose that could get an "an" but, well, that's just an abomination. ;)


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on May 24 2012, 9:31pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


May 24 2012, 9:34pm


Views: 2478
I hadn't realised there was a difference between are/is for the UK & US


In Reply To
I'm aware UK uses "are" for collective singular entities, which I forgive. ;) But more of those bloggers in the US I keep talking about seem to be picking up the bad habit of thinking this is correct. They write, for example, "Google are a good company." Gah! Google is one company - singular.

Maybe it's the spell checker, but what's really appalling is that they also don't seem to understand that the choice of "a" or "an" before a word is PHONETIC and they do not directly depend on the actual letter that begins a word. They will write "an unique..." Ugh. Far, far worse are actual professionals who speak and write "an historic..." Very common mistake. Now, for the Brits with the accent that drops the 'h' in fronts of words such that they say ''istoric," I suppose that could get an "an" but, well, that's just an abomination. ;)



But then again, I wouldn't write "Google are a good company". I suppose languages are changing, and since the UK and US both speak English, it's not surprising they've become more mixed.

I have to confess, I'm bad at putting an before a word starting with a vowel. I do check it's correct though ... Wink

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

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dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 24 2012, 10:19pm


Views: 2506
I was taught that in school.

That the proper usage was "an historic", because of the soft sound of the "h"; and to always, always, use "an" before any word beginning with a vowel, regardless of how the vowel is pronounced.

So those "old-timers" who use these conventions can't be blamed: they had it drilled into them!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




DanielLB
Immortal


May 24 2012, 10:20pm


Views: 2513
Not just "old-timers"

That's the reason I do it, because I was also taught to always use an before a word beginning with a vowel! Smile

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

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Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


May 24 2012, 11:30pm


Views: 2469
a brilliant database of eggcorns, so phrases that have been misused, but then are understood literally as they are by the person

http://eggcorns.lascribe.net/

at least I think I'm right with my definition there.

from the website: Eg.) :
Youthamism ---> used accidentally to describe the euphanisms of youth.

ie.)" I’d jokingly ’spaz out’ and rant that ‘Sheila’ is an Australian youthamism, but some one has removed large fonts from my arsenal. (rap music forum, Feb 26, 2008)"


Catch it, catch it, catch it! Dropped it... ...
Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
________________________________________

Join the Lord of the Rings Character Elimination game! Vouch for your favourite -minor- book and film character so that they can enter the -major- characters level!


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


May 24 2012, 11:32pm


Views: 2530
Daniel you are spot on, us UK-ers were not methodically taught 'grammar' per se.

Yet IMO most of us are adept at it Tongue

--but-- when pressed about all the technical vocab etc. surrounding it we're like: "Whaaa?"Crazy

It's pretty crazy when I talk to my Polish relatives or my international friends who all know all these random terms within grammar. When they rant on about grammar etc. I just switch off hehe


Catch it, catch it, catch it! Dropped it... ...
Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
________________________________________

Join the Lord of the Rings Character Elimination game! Vouch for your favourite -minor- book and film character so that they can enter the -major- characters level!

(This post was edited by Xanaseb on May 24 2012, 11:33pm)


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


May 24 2012, 11:36pm


Views: 2493
Yeah I say "orientated" as do most British.... though things are -fast- changing with the highly highly Americanised (notice the -s- ;) :P ) new generation.

I'm 19 and I've managed to avoid Americanisation (for the most part) however. Can't say the same for my little sister -__-


Catch it, catch it, catch it! Dropped it... ...
Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
________________________________________

Join the Lord of the Rings Character Elimination game! Vouch for your favourite -minor- book and film character so that they can enter the -major- characters level!


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 25 2012, 12:37am


Views: 2390
Zzzz

So tell me, when you say "americanise" do you pronounce the last syllable like "size" or "nice?"

And the quality of clothing that makes it fit your build, is that spelled "sise?"

Evil


Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


May 25 2012, 12:53am


Views: 2515
lol haha :D

Laugh I'm not saying either's better than the other lol. Just trying to keep British English that's all :).

Saying one dialect, accent or way of language is superior/inferior to another is frankly appalling hehe.
American English a lot of the time is much more logical than British English lolol, but I don't care about that at all.


Catch it, catch it, catch it! Dropped it... ...
Join us over at Barliman's chat all day, any day!
________________________________________

Join the Lord of the Rings Character Elimination game! Vouch for your favourite -minor- book and film character so that they can enter the -major- characters level!


Morthoron
Gondor


May 25 2012, 1:25am


Views: 2502
Evil is a discipline, like every higher calling...


In Reply To
You may be Evil, but you use your Evil for good. :D


And I refer to mine as "directional malevolence". Evil

Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.



dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 25 2012, 1:32am


Views: 2439
Did you hear about the Aggie terrorist?

He tried to blow up a car - and burned his mouth on the tailpipe!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Gimli'sBox
Gondor


May 25 2012, 2:00am


Views: 2398
Those are interesting! I've been guilty of a few of them but...

Not all!Laugh

One of my problems is saying "When it comes down to brass knuckles".Cool

Also I've had to totally train myself to say musical correctly. Some people I know say it "music-CAL". Crazy

Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it boring, absurd, or contemptible; and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing they evidently prefer.

Good becomes great. Bad becomes worse.  This is why you were chosen.  Because a strong man who has known power all his life may lose respect for that power.  But a weak man knows the value of strength and knows compassion. 


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 25 2012, 2:23am


Views: 2363
Ssss

I just read a post elsewhere that correctly spelled the word 'despise.'

Oh well.

Wink


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 25 2012, 2:31am


Views: 2455
In Spite Of

I see amateurs and, shockingly, professionals alike misuse this phrase perhaps even more often then "could care less." The proper use is usually "despite."

Despite: Even though

In Spite Of: oppositional; angry or hateful toward


Elizabeth
Half-elven


May 25 2012, 4:14am


Views: 2495
Those two spaces...

...after a period and before a zipcode are so embedded in my fingers' muscle memory that I can't force myself to change, regardless of how many editors have taken me to task for it. And MS-Word even nags me about it by showing squiggly green lines to indicate that their superior grammar checker disapproves.






Is Tolkien a good writer, or amateurish and dated? Join the discussion of Tolkien: A Cultural Phenomenon by Brian Rosebury, now playing in the Reading Room!

Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'


Magpie
Immortal


May 25 2012, 4:22am


Views: 2402
wouldn't it be nice...

if we could gather up all those extra spaces after periods when people use two and give them to people who don't use any?


LOTR soundtrack website
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 25 2012, 4:27am


Views: 2398
Word's grammar checker and I

have a hate/hate relationship born of its dedication to admit only the most basic (and boring) forms and usages, though it's not quite as malevolent as the relationship I have with Word's tendency to reformat my documents without asking me even after I have painstakingly adjusted and saved said document. Mad

The world would be a less irritating place if more people had Word Perfect.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Magpie
Immortal


May 25 2012, 4:36am


Views: 2433
I hearted Word Perfect

but for what I do, I heart InDesign even more.

I pretend to totally suck at Word (and I mostly do) so they don't make me 'design' documents in them. I even got the teacher who teaches Word (I work in a small college) in to look at a particularly vexing copy of a Word document I was supposed to send to print and even he couldn't manage to do anything with it. I had to send it back to the person who created it and tell them to whip it into shape and send it back to me as a pdf.


LOTR soundtrack website
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MrCere
Sr. Staff


May 25 2012, 5:04am


Views: 2455
Champing

I absolutely thought it was "chomping" at the bit in reference to horses who, before running a race, were anxious and nervous and chomping at the bit. I am ashamed thinking about how often I might have used that.

But, where does "champing" come from?! Why does it mean that?

I have no choice but to believe in free will.

The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie

My blog




Starling
Half-elven


May 25 2012, 5:12am


Views: 2507
It just means chewing really,

but in a noisy way. It's a great description of what horses do with their bit when they are impatient.
I've always used that term, probably because I've spent so much time around horses.


Starling
Half-elven


May 25 2012, 5:17am


Views: 2552
Who needs a squib, when you can have a ten-armed cephalopod?

I heard a new one today. A man describing tax changes on public radio this morning was very disappointed. He referred to the changes as, "..a bit of a damp squid, really...". Laugh


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 25 2012, 5:21am


Views: 2511
According to

my brief research, champing is the original word and chomping is an American variant. Interestingly enough, "chomp" is not listed in the 1828 version of Webster's American Dictionary so clearly it hadn't reached common use status at that point.

So yes, they mean the same thing, but the original phrase predates "chomp" and so "champ" is correct.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories

(This post was edited by Silverlode on May 25 2012, 5:23am)


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 25 2012, 5:25am


Views: 2447
LOL!

Granted, it might still be a depressing failure but it wouldn't have quite the same effect. Laugh

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


geordie
Tol Eressea

May 25 2012, 6:28am


Views: 2518
It's also correct

to say 'an hotel' - and also 'an hour', as in so many miles an hour.


DanielLB
Immortal


May 25 2012, 6:49am


Views: 2801
I'm glad I'm not the only one!

Thought I had missed a whole part of my education Wink

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Magpie
Immortal


May 25 2012, 11:27am


Views: 2514
Thirty white horses on a red hill,

First they champ,
Then they stamp,
Then they stand still.

Bilbo's Riddle
The Hobbit, Ch. 5, Riddles in the Dark


LOTR soundtrack website
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Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


May 25 2012, 12:13pm


Views: 2451
Dunno if you've seen this hilarious video by David Mitchell about American - British english 'could care less' LOL :

LOL it's funny.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=om7O0MFkmpw


Catch it, catch it, catch it! Dropped it... ...
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Join the Lord of the Rings Character Elimination game! Vouch for your favourite -minor- book and film character so that they can enter the -major- characters level!


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 25 2012, 2:14pm


Views: 2546
A Hotel / An Hour


In Reply To
It's also correct to say 'an hotel' - and also 'an hour', as in so many miles an hour.

It's not correct, actually. 'Hotel' begins with a consonant sound and should be preceded by an 'a.' Whereas 'hour' begins with a vowel sound and thus gets the 'an.'


DanielLB
Immortal


May 25 2012, 2:20pm


Views: 2503
It's not *not* correct

According the wikipedia (yes....I know):


Quote

An is also preferred before hotel by some writers of British English (probably reflecting the relatively recent adoption of the word from French, where the h is not pronounced).The use of "an" before words beginning with an unstressed "h" is more common generally in British English than American. American writers normally use a in all these cases, although there are occasional uses of an historic(al) in American English





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Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven


May 25 2012, 2:47pm


Views: 2484
I agree on Word Perfect!

I do my original writing in Word Perfect, then, grudgingly, change it to Word before sending it out into the world, because Word is standard these days. If I have to format anything in Word I know to allow plenty of time, soothing music, and chocolate, because it's going to be a struggle.

And even then Word will slip funny little bits of code into your spanking clean document.... Mad Blush

* * * * * * *
Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?

A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!


Annael
Half-elven


May 25 2012, 2:57pm


Views: 2486
I loved WordPerfect

and was very unhappy with having to switch. I particularly loved their "reveal codes" feature which made it so easy to format, as well as find the mistake that made your formatting go wonky.

But I have to say that Word 2007 and now Word 2010 are a vast improvement on the old Word 97-2003. If you haven't upgraded, do so!

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


May 25 2012, 4:04pm


Views: 2491
Around here we hold down the fort, pardner.

Ever hear of the "Wyoming kite"? It's a manhole cover on a length of chain :-D


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


May 25 2012, 4:08pm


Views: 2490
Noone, duck tape

I see "noone" in place of "no one" on the Internet all the time, and it always looks like a Chaucerian spelling of "noon".

I think there is a brand of duct tape called "Duck tape". But that's just a brand name.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Lily Fairbairn
Half-elven


May 25 2012, 4:10pm


Views: 2455
I have both new Words...

...and I find them even more difficult to work with than Word 97-2003. It's like everything I fought my way into learning how to do on the old Word is now even more complicated!

I think the issue is that Word is now set up to do complex work that I don't need to do, so I have to wade through dozens (at least) of options, with no idea of what they even mean. And I don't have the choice of NOT using them, because the dang software just blithely incorporates them into my work whether I want it to or not.

Maybe I'm just a slow learner. Unsure

* * * * * * *
Do we walk in legends or on the green earth in the daylight?

A man may do both. For not we but those who come after will make the legends of our time. The green earth, say you? That is a mighty matter of legend, though you tread it under the light of day!


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


May 25 2012, 4:11pm


Views: 2596
Pogo mentions a cat

that ate some cheese and sat by the mousehole with baited breath...


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 25 2012, 4:12pm


Views: 2468
Never underestimate the power of Chinook winds!

If you don't hold down the fort, those'll send it sailing! Laugh


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


May 25 2012, 4:13pm


Views: 2563
That one actually kind of makes sense.

The seeds for those issues are planted deep down.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


May 25 2012, 4:18pm


Views: 2447
Even though I really, really know better

I sometimes slip up with homonyms when I'm typing fast. Two-too-to, its-it's, their-they're-there. I really do know the difference. So if you see me goofing up here, it's just my fumblefingers.

I also put two spaces after a period. It's not a conscious thing, just very, very automatic.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



DanielLB
Immortal


May 25 2012, 4:21pm


Views: 2508
I never ever thought I would see the word "Chinook" on this forum

Thanks a lot dernwyn, now my work and interests are mixed Frown My PhD research at the moment is on foehn winds....

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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


May 25 2012, 4:24pm


Views: 2438
Reminds me of "Ladle Rat Rotten Hut"

We still say "garbled erupt" at my house.

Ladle Rat Rotten Hut


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


May 25 2012, 4:41pm


Views: 2480
And there's one I didn't think I'd see!

Not unless I posted it, anyway, while droning on about Switzerland. ;) "If the Föhn does not blow, the golden sun and the good God can do nothing with the snow."

**********************************


NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


geordie
Tol Eressea

May 25 2012, 7:27pm


Views: 2493
Yes, you're right about 'an hour' -

- but I'm right about 'an hotel'.

Smile


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 25 2012, 8:34pm


Views: 2464
Canterbury has the föhn (foehn) winds from the Southern Alps,

but it wasn't until last year that I realised it wasn't the 'fern effect', as I had thought! In my defence I had never seen the word written down, only heard it.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


geordie
Tol Eressea

May 25 2012, 8:42pm


Views: 2496
Tolkien was not blameless -

- I was listening to a taped interview of his today. He pronounced 'mythology' as my-thology, and 'myth' as 'mithe'. Odd. And of course the plural of dwarf is dwarfs.

Smile


imin
Valinor

May 25 2012, 10:04pm


Views: 2468
I posted that just a page ago in the thread? lol/

 


kiwifan
Rohan

May 25 2012, 10:14pm


Views: 2588
But at least these are legitimate spellings in American English

and not blatant misuses of language by people who clearly didn't think about, or didn't even know, what the words they've written actually mean. What really pains me, literally, the way being forced to listen to wrong notes makes a musician flinch, is when people in a position of teaching language/literature, commit really heinous crimes of language abuse. I remember reading a really bad one about half a year ago:

'... we were a boat askance in the middle of the Atlantic'.

Ouch, that really hurt. Askance??? I even checked my Oxford Thesaurus of English in case I might be wrong, but no. How could anyone confuse 'askance' with 'adrift'? And a highschool literature teacher at that? I was so tempted to fire off a hasty post but realised it wouldn't be any use as the perpetrator of this outrage was no longer among the living, and therefore desisted. However, I did wonder whether anyone else had noticed it at all!

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'

(This post was edited by kiwifan on May 25 2012, 10:17pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


May 25 2012, 11:12pm


Views: 2392
Askance

Askance means to dissaprove doesn't it? How on earth did they mix that up with adrift?! That is very strange Cool

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DanielLB
Immortal


May 25 2012, 11:14pm


Views: 2391
Pronunciation

At school I had been taught to say it has "fon". Needless to say, I was quickly ridiculed at university and soon learned to pronounce it as "fern". Blush

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Starling
Half-elven


May 25 2012, 11:17pm


Views: 2404
Just do what we do here in NZ and say

'Nor' Wester'. That's much easier to pronounce. Wink


DanielLB
Immortal


May 25 2012, 11:20pm


Views: 2739
I've managed to fit that into my literature review ;-)

Also known as the zonda (South American Andes) and the berg wind (South Africa)!

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Xanaseb
Tol Eressea


May 25 2012, 11:34pm


Views: 2501
Oh. LOL sorry

me no readz the whole thredz BlushEvil


Catch it, catch it, catch it! Dropped it... ...
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________________________________________

Join the Lord of the Rings Character Elimination game! Vouch for your favourite -minor- book and film character so that they can enter the -major- characters level!


Starling
Half-elven


May 26 2012, 12:12am


Views: 2469
And also known as

"that *%*#@!!! Nor' wester" as my Mum called it. Laugh

Your research sounds fascinating. I would love to read it when it's all done.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 26 2012, 12:32am


Views: 2463
Nope

Only if you speak it with a British or Australian accept and leave off the consonant ('h') sound ("'otel), mate.

Evil


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 26 2012, 12:53am


Views: 2424
Ha!

I was just about to post that alternative name. :D

I haven't experienced that wind but going by the comments I've heard about it, I don't think I want to!

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 26 2012, 1:41am


Views: 2423
"Fern"?

To pronounce "föhn" properly, you've got to make the shape of "o" with your mouth, but say "ee" through it. That's an umlaut-o, also spelled "oe". And it does have the whisper of an "r" sound, but you're not really pronouncing an "r".

Just say it like you do schön in danke schön. Easy enough, right? Wink


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




DanielLB
Immortal


May 26 2012, 6:26am


Views: 2465
If I ever discover anything new or interesting

I'll be sure to let everyone know! I've only just started it really, long time to go yet Frown

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DanielLB
Immortal


May 26 2012, 6:29am


Views: 2442
You'll have to record it for me

You have me sitting at my laptop trying to say foehn/föhn several ways!! Laugh

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DanielLB
Immortal


May 26 2012, 6:29am


Views: 2513
Anybody that says 'otel needs speech lessons ;-) /

 

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geordie
Tol Eressea

May 26 2012, 7:00am


Views: 2404
I'm British -

- actually, I'm English born and bred, and I don't drop my 'h's. Not many of us English folk do that; no more than Americans call each other 'pardner'. Smile

Mind you, I rarely use the phrase 'an historic event'. and hardly ever 'an hotel'. I think that would seem affected (in the proper sense of the word - that is, not 'effected' ) Wink Such usage is taught in 'posh' schools, not the sort of school I went to.

I think there's an historical reason for this usage. Another one involves the words 'which' and what'. I don't pronounce the 'h' in either of these words, but some educated folk I know do. I think it comes from way back; in Anglo-Saxon we have the word 'Hwaet' for example, in which the 'h' is sounded in front of the 'w'.


geordie
Tol Eressea

May 26 2012, 7:23am


Views: 2494
I looked askance at that mis-usage

- it's a Malapropism, isn't it? Named after Mrs Malaprop, a fictitious character famous for using the wrong words in an attempt to sound knowledgable, or well - educated. To give another example; some time ago during a bit of friendly banter on another site someone described me and another member as 'erstwhile members'. Kindly meant, no doubt. Smile I pointed out that 'erstwhile' means 'formerly' - so, the sentence meant that my friend and I were once members of that forum, but no longer. Turns out she'd meant 'esteemed', or possibly 'estimable'.

Another friend on that site; an American philologist studying over here in the UK, said that this piece of mis-usage is fairly common in the US. Seems odd to me; but then, as Tolkien once remarked (in an entirely different context) 'Perhaps the Americans would like them?' [ie, his paintings for TH]

'Odd folk'.

Smile


imin
Valinor

May 26 2012, 7:35am


Views: 2481
You need to come to yorkshire then!

I'm not originally from Yorkshire so i dont drop the h either so it did sound really strange to me that people did. literally all native sheffield folk do from my 6 years spent here. They also say love and duck to everyone which again the first couple of times a mature man says thanks love to you, its a little odd, haha.

But then im from cumbria where people say yan tan tethera for 123, lol.


DanielLB
Immortal


May 26 2012, 8:08am


Views: 2468
Duck

I think duck is common across the country. I know people down south (and not born up north) who say duck. Love is problem quite common everywhere as well Wink

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Starling
Half-elven


May 26 2012, 9:10am


Views: 2473
I am sure it will eventually arrive...

...precisely when it means to. Cool


imin
Valinor

May 26 2012, 10:12am


Views: 2439
not as common as one might think.

Im not sure how often they say duck the people down south but its definitely part of the derbyshire dialect which i guess must have spread (had to look it up to make sure it wasnt just what locals have told me!), though i never heard it until i came south to sheffield.

As for love i have heard old women say it etc but its not used in quite the same way as it is in sheffield, which is by literally everyone! Again its just a part of sheffield's own dialect.

Both not a patch on cumbrian obviously, which has different dialects depending on which valley you are in! as in 6 to me is sethera but only a few miles away 6 is teezie! Anyone say inbred? haha (its ok im one of them!)


(This post was edited by imin on May 26 2012, 10:15am)


sherlock
Gondor


May 26 2012, 10:25am


Views: 2459
This is interesting

but as someone who knows the difference between their, there, & they're and all the other common mistakes but,doesn't always use the proper ones in their postings it can also be kind of annoying. No offense to the clever word police out there! My best friend is an editor & she loves this stuff! I also enjoy it and hope it will help me get it right in the future.Blush


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 26 2012, 12:07pm


Views: 2447
"an historical reason"?

Wink


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




geordie
Tol Eressea

May 26 2012, 12:33pm


Views: 2431
Exactly!

Smile


DanielLB
Immortal


May 26 2012, 1:50pm


Views: 2438
True

It's probably not *that* common, but heard a couple of people say it Wink

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DanielLB
Immortal


May 26 2012, 2:04pm


Views: 2405
I like your optimism ;-) /

 

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Magpie
Immortal


May 26 2012, 2:16pm


Views: 2387
Everything I know about the Yorkshire dialect I learned from "Ilkley Moor Baht 'At"

although we don't sing any more that the line that makes up the title in the dialect.

We put a few spins on it that surprised the Cornish dance troop that was visiting the Twin Cities.

One is to shout, after the line --- "Then us'll go an` eyt up t'ducks" --- "UP THE DUCKS".

And the other is to add a line a line just before each chorus (at the end of the repeated lines).

Wheear 'ast tha bin sin' ah saw thee, ah saw thee?
On Ilkla Mooar baht 'at
Wheear 'ast tha bin sin' ah saw thee,
(Wheear 'ast that bin sin' ah saw thee?)
Wheear 'ast tha bin sin' ah saw thee?

WITHOUT THY TROUSERS ON

On Ilkla Mooar baht 'at
On Ilkla Mooar baht 'at
On Ilkla Mooar baht 'at


I also had to get used to the dialect as written when I read The Secret Garden which is one of my favorite novels of all time.


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Annael
Half-elven


May 26 2012, 2:38pm


Views: 2392
:)


Quote
no more than Americans call each other 'pardner'.


I spent a month in England once and I can't count how many times someone tried out their John Wayne accent on me to prove they could talk like an American.

You got me to thinking about what people around here call each other instead. "Buddy" and "pal" have disappeared into the past. "Dude" belongs to the under-30s. People do say "guys" as a plural attention-getting noun, as in "hey guys, we gotta get going or we'll miss the ferry," but they don't use it in the singular. I can't think of a word we use instead of the other person's name, in fact. Unless we're yelling at another driver, in which case there are several, but if you watch American movies you know those.

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


sherlock
Gondor


May 26 2012, 2:43pm


Views: 2522
Yeah,

could of & would of do get on my nerves.


sherlock
Gondor


May 26 2012, 2:55pm


Views: 2354
I am

very bad with hyphenation. I am an avid reader but a bad speller. I talk well but writing has always been a struggle. I really envy people who can write well. I'm also not great with pronunciation because often it 's a word I've only read & not bothered to look up how to pronounce it. And I sometimes get the meaning of words slightly skewed because I've read and incorrectly guessed it's meaning from the context. Does that even make sense?Tongue


DanielLB
Immortal


May 26 2012, 2:59pm


Views: 2466
Benefit of this thread

Maybe Ataahua made this thread deliberately - if it was supposed to have this motivation or not, but it has made be check my spelling and grammar even more before I post now Wink

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

Make sure you vote for your favourite characters!



JWPlatt
Grey Havens


May 26 2012, 3:27pm


Views: 2503
Irony

Well, then what a shame about that "be" in your post.

LOL


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 26 2012, 8:08pm


Views: 2369
Here's the "official"

pronunciation, it's the fifth word down the list: http://www.forvo.com/...etically/F/page-102/

This is a great site, if you've ever seen a word and wondered "how in the world is that pronounced?".


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




kiwifan
Rohan

May 26 2012, 8:14pm


Views: 2446
Thank you so much, Ataahua, for this article!

And I enjoyed the explanations, especially the tuna bit.

I'm definitely a word-lover (and probably qualify as a member of the word-police), and I'm so glad you included the unspeakable 'could care less' which must be an American idiosyncrasy because I keep reading it in American novels, and not only in those of less than stellar quality, and have also come across it in posts on TORn, time and time again. People simply will not think about the meaning of sayings that some idiot started to distort out of sheer ignorance or laziness into phrases that simply don't make sense, and then the great majority follow said idiot's example, and eventually these abominations become common usage, and whenever the word-police protest, they are roundly snubbed for not being up to date, linguistically speaking (as happened to me in a TORn thread last summer).

Actually, I feel quite puffed up in my own esteem since I know all the expressions in your list and use them correctly, and I'm not even a native speaker of English. Or perhaps that is the reason why! No, seriously, I've always loved the language, never really had to study much to learn it (unlike Spanish and French, which were actually work because of all the grammar, and I don't feel comfortable using those languages now as I'm totally out of practice); I lived for several years in different English-speaking societies (England, Canada, the U.S.), and as a translator, I'm required to be very careful with words. So it's an occupational hazard, combined with a passion for English, that makes me so allergic to violations of it. That doesn't mean my own posts are always error-free, alas, but at least I do try!

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 26 2012, 8:25pm


Views: 2381
A great malaprop on this very site*

was when a board member described a discussion as 'inciteful'. Given that there was some heat in the discussion I thought the description was pretty bang-on! :D

*On Old Torn, many years ago.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 26 2012, 8:33pm


Views: 2425
More habit, I would think.


In Reply To
People simply will not think about the meaning of sayings that some idiot started to distort out of sheer ignorance or laziness into phrases that simply don't make sense, and then the great majority follow said idiot's example,


If you hear a phrase rather than see it written down, it's easy to mis-hear what the phrase is. However I've seen 'change of tact' a lot in articles written by journalists, and I wonder how a professional couldn't look at that twice and realise there isn't an internal logic to it.


In Reply To
I lived for several years in different English-speaking societies (England, Canada, the U.S.), and as a translator, I'm required to be very careful with words.


I can see how that learned behaviour of exact language would make it very frustrating to be around people who are less exacting about the words they use! However some misuse can be hilarious - especially if it's unintentional. Evil

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


kiwifan
Rohan

May 26 2012, 8:47pm


Views: 2448
Followed your link but I can't hear anything, duh...

Am I doing something wrong or does one need an account there?

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


kiwifan
Rohan

May 26 2012, 9:06pm


Views: 2548
So, thanks to Ataahua, you've added a nugget to your treasury of knowledge

gained some valuable insight (but never mind, sheep are cute Wink),

and are a year older today Smile (I just checked out your profile as I hadn't met you before on these boards), so:

have a very happy birthday, and may you never become too old to learn something new, tire of the company gathered in the world of TORn, and always enjoy coming here!

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


kiwifan
Rohan

May 26 2012, 9:54pm


Views: 2456
I quite agree with you

and perhaps one root of this evil lies in the fact that people read much less (and I mean proper books, not internet blogs and such) than, say, fifty years ago. I don't think any language can actually be taught to the extent that every pupil is truly proficient in it --- and certainly not with multiple choice tests rather than tests where a properly written answer is required. Like you said, people hear words and phrases but don't understand their meaning and therefore can't apply them correctly.

The same thing is happening here in Germany (don't know about the German-speaking part of Switzerland, or Austria). My sister-in-law, 42 years old, a teacher of German and French, last summer asked me to come visit them and babysit the kids for three days. I agreed to do this, and she said 'you'll be doing me a real disservice' which really nonplussed me for a second or two. Speaking in German, the word she used was 'Bärendienst', and I assume she concluded from the fact that bears are large that 'Bärendienst' meant a really big favour or good turn --- instead it means the exact opposite! (Wikipedia says it might be derived from a fable by Jean de Lafontaine, L'ours et l'amateur des jardins, where a bear wants to do his friend, an old man, a service by getting a fly off his sleeping friend's face. Unfortunately, he endeavours to do so by hurling a rock at the fly. Neither the fly nor the old man survive). I told her so and she was really surprised. And she's a teacher! My nieces must think me a right pain in the neck because I'm forever correcting them, but strangely enough they still like having me around (in small doses, twice a year Wink)

'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'


Magpie
Immortal


May 26 2012, 10:00pm


Views: 2340
did you end up at this page?

http://www.forvo.com/word/f%C3%B6hn/

If you did and you clicked the blue triangle (to play on the page) and that didn't work, try right clicking on the links for mp3, save the clip to your harddrive, and then play it from your harddrive.


LOTR soundtrack website
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


DanielLB
Immortal


May 26 2012, 10:01pm


Views: 2672
You had to point that out didn't you! /

 

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

Make sure you vote for your favourite characters!



kiwifan
Rohan

May 26 2012, 10:26pm


Views: 2410
LOL, that is funny!

But imagine this person writing 'inciteful' in an essay or in an exam? Or, heaven forbid, in a newspaper?


kiwifan
Rohan

May 26 2012, 11:33pm


Views: 2417
Thanks for the advice but it still isn't working.

My browser doesn't seem to have the right specifications for listening directly to the pronunciations online, and after I downloaded the clip and it referred me back to the page online, it seems that I have to be a member in order to be able to listen to the downloaded file or clip or whatever that is, and I'm not sure I can be bothered to go through registration and passwords and all that hassle --- at least not tonight (it's 1.30 a.m. here). Being German, I do know how Föhn is pronounced but I was curious as there were two alternatives given, an East German man and an Austrian woman, and they might sound rather different.

For the time being, I'll sign off and go to bed! Nighty night, everyone! Smile


Magpie
Immortal


May 27 2012, 12:06am


Views: 2429
I was able to play it without doing anything other than clicking the triangle

but when I tried the 'download' just now, they did want me to register. I didn't try download before suggesting it. I should have.

I suspect your browser is giving you problems with playing the audio file online. You could try a different browser. That sometimes works for me.


LOTR soundtrack website
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Starling
Half-elven


May 27 2012, 9:20am


Views: 2357
Did somebody say *fern*?

Right on cue, we had one today. 22 degrees and a warm Nor' Wester, and it's almost officially winter, so that is a very warm temperature. Unusually, the weather reporter I saw on TV tonight referred to it as the fohn wind - she must have been reading this thread! Wink


DanielLB
Immortal


May 27 2012, 10:28am


Views: 2399
Thanks dernwyn!

Yes, my pronunciation is a bit off but not by much Cool

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

Make sure you vote for your favourite characters!



DanielLB
Immortal


May 27 2012, 10:28am


Views: 2375
What a coincidence!!

How long did it last for? Laugh

Voting has begun for "The Lord of the Rings Character Elimination Game"

Make sure you vote for your favourite characters!



kiwifan
Rohan

May 27 2012, 4:11pm


Views: 2324
Turns out it was the Flash Player not being up to date

I just installed the newest version of the Adobe Flash Player, and now I can listen to the pronunciations without any problems. Fascinating! I ended up bookmarking the website Smile but for listening to last night's downloaded word 'föhn' I'd still have to register and so on. I don't think I'll need that; being able to listen to the pronunciation of any given word online will suffice, at least for the time being.


Magpie
Immortal


May 27 2012, 4:27pm


Views: 2395
another site I like

for lots of reasons is onelook.com

One searches for a word and the site produces a quick definition and links to multiple sites that define the word. One can jump around from site to site - as some are better or more complete than others. And it will break definitions down into categories like Art or Music or Science so one can focus on those if one is looking for a particular definition.

Many of these sites also have audio pronunciations and if I want to hear a word, I just keep clicking till I find one.

I like the wide assortment of definitions but the url is easy to remember so if I'm working with someone else and we want to look up a word, it's easy to direct them to the site.

That site and thesaurus.com are ones I visit a lot.


LOTR soundtrack website
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Morthoron
Gondor


May 28 2012, 12:50am


Views: 2382
If you were referring to me...


In Reply To
was when a board member described a discussion as 'inciteful'. Given that there was some heat in the discussion I thought the description was pretty bang-on! :D

*On Old Torn, many years ago.


That was intentional. I've used that wordplay on here previously. Angelic

Please visit my blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.



SirDennisC
Half-elven


May 28 2012, 4:16am


Views: 2337
Ha! much better than impactful...

though it has a ring of a type of retentiveness -- the number two cause of difficult exchanges -- inciteful is a much better word for such discussions.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on May 28 2012, 4:22am)


Starling
Half-elven


May 28 2012, 7:39am


Views: 2283
One day

Now it's 7 degrees and hailing. Hot on the heels of a Nor' Wester, nearly always comes a freezing Southerly. It's four seasons in one day round these parts. Crazy


DanielLB
Immortal


May 28 2012, 4:20pm


Views: 2270
Another strange pronunciation

I use to live in East Anglia (UK) and not far from a place called: Wymondham.

It still boogles me today how it is pronounced!


sherlock
Gondor


May 28 2012, 5:31pm


Views: 2309
I liked

Word Perfect, too. I haven't used it in while but I did 25 years ago when I was a secretary at a hospital. I had to work with documents that other people had created with Word Perfect who didn't know how to use it. The reveal codes feature was really handy for that. I work with numbers & spreadsheets now but I kind of miss some aspects of what I used to do.


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


May 28 2012, 7:18pm


Views: 2212
Odd. *We* got hail yesterday evening out of the northwest. No A/C for folks without power here.//

 

**********************************


NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 28 2012, 10:02pm


Views: 2249
*takes a listen on Forvo*

Yep, I thought they'd pronounce "Wymondham" like "Windom".

But that's because I grew up around Worcester (Mass.), which most locals pronounce "Wuster" - that first vowel is a sort of cross between "uh" and "oo"; if you listen to the Forvo samples, the second person must be from Maine. Tongue

And it's right next to Leicester ("Lester").

The most unusual place-name I think I've encountered is Cholmondeley ("Chumlee").


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Longbottom Leaf
Lorien


May 28 2012, 11:22pm


Views: 2409
Thanks Kiwifan!

I'm sure I will never grow weary of TORN as long as good folks like yourself are gathered here!

The best weed in the southfarthing!


DanielLB
Immortal


May 29 2012, 7:08am


Views: 2304
Spot on there

For ages I just assumed it was literally pronounced Wy-mond-ham. Get rid of all those extra letters!! Wink

Cholmondeley certainly is more unusual that Wymondham. They must be fed up with people saying it wrong Crazy


sherlock
Gondor


May 29 2012, 10:06am


Views: 2293
I have a friend who's from Sheffield

& she uses love a lot. Once she called me a cheeky monkey which I thought was really cool - describes me perfectly!


geordie
Tol Eressea

May 29 2012, 12:25pm


Views: 2256
I pronounce it Windam (or actually Windham)

Try Bicester. Or Cirencester. Both towns are in Gloucestershire. Come to think of it, try to say Gloucestershire. It's a lot easier then remembering how to spell it!

Smile


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 30 2012, 10:26am


Views: 2366
Gloucestershire?

That's easy enough to pronounce, just like Worcestershire! (Gloucester being only a few miles away from Worcester...Massachusetts did end up with a lot of those place-names.)

I remember reading once that the "cester" in a town name indicates that a castle had been built there.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Arandiel
Grey Havens

May 31 2012, 4:35am


Views: 2248
Okay, I feel qualified to speak to that one

It's a formal phrase, one that I believe originates in the world of politics. A person who can speak to something is one who has some authority or expertise on the matter, or will give evidence or commentary on it. Example: An expert witness will speak to the merits of a pending piece of legislation. It's a turn of phrase that makes me just a tiny bit nostalgic for my days as a legislative aide!


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