The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Balin and Dwalin Photo



Riellawen
Registered User


Jul 15 2011, 9:22am


Views: 19702
Balin and Dwalin Photo

https://fbcdn-sphotos-a.akamaihd.net/...773855_1237379_n.jpg

What does everyone think of them?

~*~ As Nightfall in Winter That Comes Without a Star ~*~



RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 9:29am


Views: 12305
Well, no mohawk! :-) //

Is Balin just rocking back slightly on his heels, or does he have curly shoes? Smile


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 9:31am


Views: 12231
Thanks! I like these ones. A Bald Dwarf... that is refreshing!

And as was suggested in the other thread, Dwalin does look battle-hardened and action hero-like. He's the Jean-Claude-Van-Dammorin of the gang. Wink

Visit Mexico from A to Z! Index to the whole series here.
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!



TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 9:34am


Views: 12108
Awesome !!!!

Yeah !!! Thats what I am talking about Cool


Alientraveller
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 9:40am


Views: 12183
Description from TIME

They were the ones who received the photo:

"Dwarf Lords in their own right, Balin and Dwalin are close relatives of Thorin. Beyond this, these brothers are two of his most loyal and trusted friends. An old warrior, Balin has lived through hard times and fought many battles, yet he harbors doubts about the wisdom of the Quest to retake the Lonely Mountain. Dwalin has no such forebodings – his belief in Thorin’s leadership is unshakeable. A powerful and bruising fighter, with a natural tendency to distrust anyone who is not a Dwarf, particularly anyone who might be an Elf, Dwalin is not someone to cross lightly."
Read more: http://newsfeed.time.com/2011/07/15/time-exclusive-first-look-at-balin-and-dwalin-from-the-hobbit-movie


DeadRabbits
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 9:40am


Views: 12366
That's the bad*** I'm talking about!

Looks like Dwalin is going to be the group's tough guy, which i suggested in my earlier thread. What is he wielding...? A giant two-handed hammer?

Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 9:45am


Views: 12086
I thin his shoes *are* pointy...

And he does indeed look lordly. No mustache... interesting. Also, he has an Oriental feel to him. The robes, the beard-style... not what I pictured, but I really like the result!

And well, Dwalin... now you can actually see how he is the one constantly carrying Bilbo on his back! Wink

Visit Mexico from A to Z! Index to the whole series here.
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!



Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 9:47am


Views: 11951
I like them!

With the exception of Kili the dwarves (except for Thorin, whom we haven't seen) have the Patty seal of approval.

Wow broke early in the morning here. I guess there is something good to be said about insomnia.

In thinking about the BBC audio of The Hobbit, there's no way those voices could have come from these guys. Laugh

Permanent address: Into the West





Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 9:49am


Views: 12136
Brilliant!

I was pretty damn close with my Dwalin speculation in your thread DeadRabbits! Love both of them and the description is fantastic too!


Delrond
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 9:49am


Views: 12018
Those boots

I like the curled up tips on Balin's boots. Over all, the look fits well with the rest of the cast. And in this case, they seem true to the book. I would not want to tangle with Dwalin and the business end of that weapon.

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.


RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 9:49am


Views: 12018
Yep, a curl to the end of his shoes to match his beard! :-) //

 


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 9:51am


Views: 12344
the more I look at them..

the more awesome they get. Especially Balin--and since he is my favorite, I'm glad he looks so good. Fits my internal vision of a dwarf.

Permanent address: Into the West





Delrond
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 9:54am


Views: 12113
youbetcha

They are awesome! Only one photo left and I don't expect to be disappointed. Probably in the minority on that one though.

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 15 2011, 9:56am


Views: 11941
Ha! Ha!

A taller dwarf I see! Wink

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


Rachamatazz
The Shire

Jul 15 2011, 9:59am


Views: 11868
I like them.

Very traditional looking dwarves. Is Balin particularly short or Dwalin exceptionally tall?

Not all those who wander are lost.


DeadRabbits
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 10:00am


Views: 11930
Yeah...

You were pretty much spot on! Couldn't agree more... love their looks and the description is amazing (Dwalin is exactly as I imagined him to be...).

Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 10:04am


Views: 12093
Close, but no cigar :P

I was expecting to love Balin more than Dwalin, but the latter pretty much rocks my socks! Funnily enough, my favourite thing about him is the fact he has short sleeves (he most certainly means business!) and those really cool knuckle-protecter thingies...can't wait for the high-res!


Carne
Tol Eressea

Jul 15 2011, 10:10am


Views: 11879
Fantastic!

Pretty much just how I imagined Dwalin! You can tell he's gonna bring the pain.


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 15 2011, 10:10am


Views: 11849
Oh heck yes!

Just as I suspected, and just as I imagined them. Balin is the old, wise, battle-hardened one who tries to talk sense into Thorin and the gang, and Dwalin is the no-nonsense ultimate Rambo bad *bleepety bleep* of the group. I knew when they cast Graham McTavish in this role, that he was going to be the ultimate bruiser. Awesome, these guys are probably my favorite so far.

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 10:13am


Views: 11967
No, you just THINK you'll be in the minority

because a small handful of purists shout the loudest.

I like these two. But Dwalin, like Kili, looks the most human. He seems tall and in proportion - and he doesn't wear his belt slung under his stomach, LOL! I think that this shows that you can somehow look like a dwarf without having a big belly and short legs.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Jul 15 2011, 10:20am


Views: 11872
Now these two are the best dwarfs yet in my opinion!

What can i say, I just like it classic. Wink

Dwalin especially looks badass whit his hammer of ultimate destruction. Smile


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 10:21am


Views: 11814
We are so spoiled, aren't we Spencissimus ?

I'm wanting those hi-res pics immediately! Cool

Permanent address: Into the West





Ruijor
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 10:26am


Views: 11769
These two are great!

We´re almost done in the dwarven department... Tongue


Snulle
Bree

Jul 15 2011, 10:30am


Views: 11742
Fantastic!

Both look amazing but Dwalin takes the cake. Wow he looks simply perfect and that hammer is so cool! Cool


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 10:31am


Views: 11863
Dwalin

Is Dwalin wearing wolverine claws on his hands ??Tongue


sushiking
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 10:33am


Views: 7427
YEAh!

HE looks awesome i tell ya haha. he's probably the tallest dwarf too LOl.


sushiking
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 10:41am


Views: 7434
Is there a HD pic?

I want to zoom in :(


Snulle
Bree

Jul 15 2011, 10:43am


Views: 7471
No High-Res yet.

But here is a brighter version so you can really see the awesomeness of Dwalin and his hammer. Wink
http://i56.tinypic.com/2uzfor5.jpg


Delrond
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 10:50am


Views: 7532
Well,

Dwalin may look human due his height, but I'm open to different bloodlines leading to obviously different body proportions - not just height but sideways as well.

The purist in me wants to see the book adhered to with no subplots shoehorned in, but I know this cannot be done in making these films. PJ and Co. take the essential story elements, enhance a minor one or so to make it more movie-palatable, and omit alot of other details that don't advance the story, IMO. As far as the look of the Dwarves, my main concern was that Balin would not look adequately old, but that has been put to rest. I would have preferred to see all the different colored hoods (and we may yet see them in the movie), just like Gandalf is now sporting a silver scarf and black boots. Not sure about the blue hat though - I haven't seen a picture of him wearing it yet...

Cheers

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.


Carne
Tol Eressea

Jul 15 2011, 10:54am


Views: 7373
Height

Well, Ken Scott playing Balin is only 5'7, so he's pretty much the shortest dwarf, which makes Graham McTavish (Dwaling) look taller, because he's over 6ft, yet shorter than Richard Armitage (Thorin).


(This post was edited by Carne on Jul 15 2011, 10:54am)


sushiking
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 11:00am


Views: 7321
True haha

The sledge hammer makes him look so tall!

anyway can't wait to see Thorin even though I've already seen him in Bilbo's picture xD


Oleander Took
Rivendell


Jul 15 2011, 11:01am


Views: 7525
Clear verion

I've also tried my hand to make it look more clear, and after doing so i noticed something: Looks like Dwalin has a piercing in his ear, and his arms have scratches, he really looks like a fighter.
http://i202.photobucket.com/.../Hobbit/03979e61.jpg


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 11:03am


Views: 7497
Are my eyes deceiving me or...

are those tattoos on his bare head?

Permanent address: Into the West





sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Jul 15 2011, 11:07am


Views: 7350
I am willing to bet...

...that these two are GDT's designs. What with the oriental and ornate elements in Balin's costume and both looking as if they came straight out of an Arthur Rackham illustration. And they're awesome, so there's for all the naysayers. Definitely my favourite dwarves thus far.


(This post was edited by sharpened_graphite on Jul 15 2011, 11:14am)


RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 11:08am


Views: 7331
Where are Balin's hands I wonder?

Can't he afford a coat that fits? Wink


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 11:10am


Views: 7288
Where are Balin's hands ????

I cant see his hands protruding out of his sleeves Crazy


Ruijor
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 11:17am


Views: 7295
I wonder if his height will be that noticeable on film...

Same goes for Aidan Turner´s taller Kili.


Ruijor
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 11:19am


Views: 7302
Maybe they messed up with the photoshop once again!

Sly


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 15 2011, 11:24am


Views: 7545
Here's a faux hi-res.

http://i176.photobucket.com/...jones-indiana/DB.jpg

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


Mythopoeia
Bree

Jul 15 2011, 11:26am


Views: 7188
Fantastic!

The pseudo-Oriental look for Balin is entirely unexpected but I like it. I also like the brightness of the red he's wearing after seeing so many costumes in shades of charcoal and more subdued tones. And Dwalin does indeed look tough and awesome. I'm seeing similarities in the cut of his costume and Kili's (short sleeves, longer tunic-skirts) so I wonder if they'll be linked somehow in a student-mentorish way (or even just Kili admiring him)? Kili's pose certainly looks like he wants to be as fierce as Dwalin is here without even trying :D

I've been keeping away from the discussions out of a desire to not get embroiled in any arguing about the Dwarven looks revealed so far, but I've really liked everything shown. Some costuming took more getting used to than others, but seeing all the Dwarves together really gets me excited. I feel like the looks complement each other really well, Nori's hair doesn't even really stand out anymore! Laugh

As to the Kili debate, I'm confident Turner will do an excellent job with the character, and expect he'll have a beard by the end of film 2, so I'm not fussed (and I think his costume's great). I can't wait to see Thorin, but at the same time once his photo is released I won't know what next to look forward to! No more Dwarves!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 11:28am


Views: 7198
One behind him and the one in front his fist is balled & gloved in black.

Or so it appears to me.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 15 2011, 11:30am


Views: 7183
Wow.

I could crack an off-color joke right now, but I'm trying really hard not to. Laugh

*restrain* *breathe* *remembers maturity*

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Snulle
Bree

Jul 15 2011, 11:31am


Views: 7224
I think you're right.

Looks definitely like some kind of markings or tattoos.


Albin
Registered User

Jul 15 2011, 11:32am


Views: 7271
Nah..

I don't think so... Tongue
I know that they want to make it look ''darker'' and such, but I would have wished they put some more greenish colors on Dwalin...
I am an: 'every-thing-that-is-green-looks-very-nice-guy'... I like the color: green. Laugh
And yeah! Balin looks amazing with that beard, I always imagined maybe one of the Dwarves with that sort of beard. And it came to be Balin, nice!
Hmm... Poor Balin who met his fate together with Oin, Ori and other dwarves in Moria, on their mission... Unsure

Questions!

1. Balin escaped together with Thorin and Thror, when the dragon Smaug first came to the mountain, right?

2. Is it Ori that holds the book besides Balins tomb in Moria when the Fellowship discovers their fate?

Cheers!... Wink


Welsh hero
Gondor


Jul 15 2011, 11:40am


Views: 7225
somone with PS, you have to do a picture of them all together

please Smile

Twitter: @IrfonPennant


smokerings
Rivendell


Jul 15 2011, 11:43am


Views: 7165
I bet

You will see Dwalin use his fits as ultimate weapons (utilizing those gloves that he has) - rolled up sleeves, and those arms....his arms will be like the force of a typhoon.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 11:44am


Views: 7256
Should we wait for Thorin? I doubt we'll have to wait long.

I do think Gandalf and Bilbo should be in there with him, although, if he is alone, Bilbo and Gandalf should have a shot together.

Permanent address: Into the West





Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 11:44am


Views: 7186
What is this purist bit?

It is like name calling. Some of us have lived with Thorin for thirty or more years and it is not purism that shapes our image of Thorin Oakenshield. Tolkien describes him as the oldest Dwarf of the 13 with a long beard that shows up in the dark (A white beard). It looks like the production of these movies has decided to radically redesign the look of the character. It does not take a purist to balk.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 11:46am


Views: 7211
The Purist is a straw dog.//

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 11:47am


Views: 7153
No Balin is shorter and stooped with age.//

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 11:48am


Views: 7119
What did you think of Kili, Delrond?

if you posted it, I missed it.

Permanent address: Into the West





Welsh hero
Gondor


Jul 15 2011, 11:49am


Views: 7078
aye true.

And Bilbo and Gandalf release would be welcome.......

Twitter: @IrfonPennant

(This post was edited by Welsh hero on Jul 15 2011, 11:49am)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 11:51am


Views: 7054
No telling the characters heights from these pictures

as they have been shown to be composites. A group photo will show their relative heights. If you look up the heights of the actors this will tell their relative scale. And remember they are all short by human standards.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Delrond
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 11:55am


Views: 7130
I didn't

think the purist comment was an insult. More likely the shouts the loudest part ruffled some feathers. In any case, I'd just the same like to voice an opinion from my perspective (purist or not).

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 11:55am


Views: 7029
Remember Dwalin is probably under 5 feet tall.//

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Delrond
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 12:01pm


Views: 7105
I did

weigh in briefly but can understand the it may have been drowned out. I like how all the Dwarves look, some more than others. Kili is at the bottom, but that doesn't mean I hate the image. It's a movie adaptation of the book through PJ's eyes. I can live with Kili's look as much as the exclusion of Tom Bombabil. I like the books and movies for different reasons, and I suspect I'll feel the same way about TH.

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 12:01pm


Views: 7114
A straw dog is a creation made to be attacked.

There are many views of Tolkien here but very few as rigid as you propose. In fact I can only think of one who might take being called a Purist as anything other than an insult and even then he would probably take offense as you are trying to devalue and denigrate his views.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 12:10pm


Views: 7059
Thorin will be more impressive alone.

Remember the matter of scale. Thorin is a tall Dwarf but Gandalf will be a good deal taller (Though he is a short wizard).

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Otaku-sempai
Immortal

Jul 15 2011, 12:11pm


Views: 7096
I think that Dwalin's weapon is a maul...


In Reply To
Looks like Dwalin is going to be the group's tough guy, which i suggested in my earlier thread. What is he wielding...? A giant two-handed hammer?



A giant, two-handed hammer like that is properly called a maul, if I am not mistaken.


dwarf_girl
The Shire

Jul 15 2011, 12:11pm


Views: 6980
Part of the "minority"

You're right. Kili and Dwalin seem to be the taller dwarves, and the ones with the more "human" faces (i.e., small nose, less prostetic). Let's wait for some videos where we'll can see them interact.
I imagine Dwalin will have some issues about staying in Rivendell and dealing with Thranduil.
I find Balin huggable.


dwarf_girl
The Shire

Jul 15 2011, 12:15pm


Views: 7017
And Thorin stands alone...

It willl be epic!


Delrond
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 12:26pm


Views: 6973
Propose?

Sorry if anything I have said here is insulting. Clearly not my intent. I was only commenting on the original statement, with no rigid framework of views being constructed. Maybe your point should be directed at the source?

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 12:30pm


Views: 7117
I'm not as impressed with Dwalin as i thought i'd be

Personally, knowing Graham McTavish mainly as the sadistic prison warden Ackerman in Red Dwarf i'm a little bit disappointed he's just going to be a 'bruiser'. The proportions again are rather out with a small head on top of a big body, and the very human arms. It's not wholly undwarvish, don't get me wrong, he has a solid beard and the costume has promise even if it's not specifically dwarven, but meh, he looked more promising in the empire photo to be honest.

Now Balin, now there's a dwarf. I don't quite get the specifically oriental atmosphere that others do from him, but i love the look. He is very 'garden gnome' ish with the curled toes, the tashless beard and the slightly pointed hairdo, but to be honest it works in a strange way. The beard is voluminous enough, the cuts and colours of his costume are properly dwarvish and his possible sword/cudgel looks impressive. I probably imagined Balin to have a mustache, but i think it's one of those details i get used to him lacking. The background seems to support my theory that he'll have more optimism in reclaiming Khazad-dum than Erebor and so will be a bit of a cynic.

Dr Death


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 12:34pm


Views: 6986
Why Balin is short... (what I think anyway)

I think that they made Balin short because he needs to become the closest to Bilbo. Having him the same height could mean that the other dwarves will treat him in a similar uncourteous manner. Sort of, the old man who's lagging behind and always going on about his war stories (which only Bilbo finds interesting). Like Uncle Albert from Only Fools and Horses :)


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 12:36pm


Views: 7028
And I've lived with Thorin for 45 years but, I agree,

I don't think that age or length of familiarity has got anything to do with attitude. Some people pick out details like Thorin being the oldest dwarf or having a long - possibly white - beard and cannot accept a Thorin who doesn't have these features. I call this purism although I am very interested in hearing other people's definitions. Others, like myself, are just happy if we think it works. I think that Dwalin works, even though he appears to have human proportions - and I don't mean that he will be shown as having a human height but that his head and limbs have a human relationship as far as measurements are concerned.

I'm not so happy with some of the dwarves as I am with others but I'm pretty confident that they will all win me over once I see them in action. And it's this willingness to let PJ tell the story and not to be too picky before I see the films and to get excited about every image that he offers us whether they tie in with an original image I had in my mind's eye or not that makes me NOT a "purist" within my definition of it.

And I often feel quite sad that every time I make a sensible remark about a certain actor, I get slapped down, sometimes quite viciously (I don't mean by you, KS), as do others, after 10 years of visiting this site and thinking that the members are some of the nicest, best-humoured posters of any forum out there. The "purists" hold so tightly onto their absolute opinions, that what should be funny and kindly exchanges have sometimes degenerated into nasty sexist attacks on women of the type that I haven't heard since I was a young woman (way back in the olden days, LOL!).

You sit very carefully on the fence, KS, making pithy, Delphic utterances, so I often don't know what way you're bending in the wind. For instance, if Thorin, as is likely, isn't the oldest dwarf and doesn't have a white beard, will you find PJ's interpretation totally unacceptable? And in what way is "purist" a straw dog? Am I aiming my barbs in the wrong direction? So many questions, so little time, LOL!


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 12:39pm


Views: 6910
This is an open forum and my criticism is aimed not at you

but at the use of the term "purist". It has been examined here before without resolution. My reaction is to desire an explanation of what is meant by the term when it is used. ShireHorse's view seems to be that anyone who objects to the radical changes being introduced in this adaptation of the Hobbit must belong to "a small handful of purists [who] shout the loudest." I would say that this is not the case at all. But then we do not necessarily know what is meant by purist.


Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jul 15 2011, 12:40pm)


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 12:39pm


Views: 6938
yeah, I'm not getting the oriental vibe either...

For me, pointy doesn't equal oriental, my first impression was same as you, he looks very gnomish! I do think that Dwalin looks in proportion though, certainly much more in proportion than Kili. Also, looking at the end of Balin's scabbard, I wonder if there is a reason for it being wider than the rest of it?


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 12:39pm


Views: 6952
Very nice indeed

Balin looks small, kindly and old – all the important elements of my mental picture are present. They seem to have gone with a sort of Father Christmas look, giving him a voluminous white beard and a red coat. That should work well; he's meant to be the most likeable of the Dwarves, so such associations can't hurt. The curly beard and curly shoes are an interesting little quirk – it's certainly a less intrusive look than the starfish or L'Oréal styles (though the former is growing on me). The hidden hands give a 'gangster' impression – perhaps that would have been more appropriate for Nori, but it's most likely just the way he was standing for the photoshoot.

My first thought when I saw Dwalin was that he looks like a mountain. The wide stance, the huge shoulders, the cloak which emphasises his size, the bald and bearded 'biker' look – as the description says, he is not one to be taken lightly. I'm glad they've finally decided to give a Dwarf a proper war-hammer – I'm not sure if Tolkien ever described them as using them, but it's a very suitable weapon for them in that it takes full advantage of their innate strength and hardiness. What are those metal things on his hands – gauntlets of some sort? Knuckle-dusters?

I'd count these two among my favourite Dwarves so far – they're much more interesting and individualised than Oin and Gloin, but they give the same impression of genuine, full-blown Dwarvishness.


Eregyrn
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 12:41pm


Views: 6851
Like everything, it depends on your point of view...


In Reply To
It is like name calling. Some of us have lived with Thorin for thirty or more years and it is not purism that shapes our image of Thorin Oakenshield. Tolkien describes him as the oldest Dwarf of the 13 with a long beard that shows up in the dark (A white beard). It looks like the production of these movies has decided to radically redesign the look of the character. It does not take a purist to balk.


I've lived with the book for going on 40 years myself, but I count myself in the number who are not dismayed at the idea of a radically reimagined, "younger" looking Thorin. NARF?

There's a lot of things about the LOTR films that didn't match the ways I had long imagined the world and its characters. But I enjoyed the new ways it made me look at some of the material, and in many cases, they managed to capture something in a way that was better than I had been imagining it.

In that category, so far, I am putting the dwarves we've seen. I always sort of pictured them as a generic mass. I'm grateful for this production's attempt to give them all individuality and personality, (even Kili has me intrigued more than anything), and I can't wait to see and hear them in action. Thus far, The Hobbit is challenging my entire conception of who and what dwarves are and can be, and I'm enjoying that.


Ruijor
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 12:43pm


Views: 6930
We will spread his arms and simply... spin around knocking orcs down!

Cool


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 15 2011, 12:43pm


Views: 6907
He does kind of remind me of Conan Stevens' "The Mountain" character from GoT.

Let us hope that he doesn't decide to knock a pony's head off in anger! Shocked

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak

(This post was edited by Maiarmike on Jul 15 2011, 12:45pm)


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 12:44pm


Views: 6873
I have not seen any 'nasty sexist attacks on women' here. //

 


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 12:45pm


Views: 6928
Yes, the skeleton holding the Book of Mazarbul is Ori. //

 


Delrond
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 12:46pm


Views: 6870
Pardon my confusion

as you replied to my comment and then went on to say "...you propose" -- I inferred that comment to be directed at me. I posted above that I have some purist views of what I'd like to see in the movie (staight from the book). Other aspects of the movie will be PJ's interpretation and am completely fine with that. As I said to Patty, I enjoyed the LOTR movies and books, but for different reasons. I suspect TH will be the same for me.

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.


Eregyrn
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 12:49pm


Views: 6824
"Oriental" boots...

I fear I haven't time to go find an image to post, but if interested parties will do a web-search on the terms "Mongol boots", you'll see that's pretty much with Balin is wearing.

Fascinating choice for him, as I'd always understood that the turned-up toes were meant to be a horse-riding thing. But, well, the dwarves do come with ponies!

I own a pair of the traditionally-styled, flat-soled Mongol boots, and they are really interesting to walk in. They encourage you into a rather sweeping stride. I can't tell from even the brightened-up pic whether Balin's are flat-soled or if they have a little heel (there are some modern versions of the traditional Mongol boot that have heels, and look rather like Frye stadium boots, but retain the turned-up toe).

At any rate, I like them. :) Nice visual detail.


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 12:49pm


Views: 6960
The use of the term 'purist'

It is difficult to think of ways to refer to some of the more vehemently expressed feelings that have appeared on this board, which have found PJ's take on the dwarves problematic. And the strength of such feelings have made it less easy to post contrary views, even though diversity of views are welcomed on the board.

Many of the objections, as you say, stem from an focus on the book and an interpretation that differs from PJ's (using him as a shorthand for the studio, production team, writers etc). I took the use of the term 'purist' to be an easily understood and a not entirely inappropriate shorthand rather than being an insult. But perhaps the term has additional meanings that I am unaware of? I know that terms that are acceptable in England are not necessarily outside the country, and vice versa.

Bearing in mind some of the stereotyping that has been flung by a few towards those who have been more accepting or less condemning of the dwarves as they've been presented, then I find the use of the term 'purist' less objectionable than other terms that have been used.


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 12:52pm


Views: 6900
I didn't notice you being insulting, Delrond.

In fact, it was me who first used the word "purist" and I thought at first that KS was talking to me.

I also wasn't using the word in an insulting way. If some Tolkien fans are keen to see the films produced in exactly the way that Tolkien wrote the story then I stand by their right to state that on this forum and to debate their attitudes with others who don't have the same approach. Neither am I claiming that they are wrong, only different in their approach from mine. Time for a bit of respect on both sides of the divide, I think.


(This post was edited by ShireHorse on Jul 15 2011, 12:55pm)


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 12:56pm


Views: 6894
Perfect

These guys look awesome!


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 12:57pm


Views: 6940
I don't really want to revive them ...

... But I find that hard to believe. There have been several posts on other threads that I have found objectionable, and I have responded saying that I found them so, as did others.

But perhaps you were just commenting about the quality of posts on this particular thread? In which case, I agree with you, there have been no 'nasty sexist attacks on women' here. Let's hope that it remains that way.


Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 12:58pm


Views: 6868
I don't see "purist" so much as an insult

as a one-word explanation which is used to explain away people's views (eg: "you just think that because you're a purist") and frankly it irritates me that often we use the word "purist" instead of taking the time to compose a logical argument.


..The land of long-forgotten name:
......no man may ever anchor near;
..No steering star his hope may aim,
......for nether Night its marches drear,
..And waters wide no sail may tame,
......with shores encircled dark and sheer.

..O! Haven where my heart would be!
......the waves beat upon thy bar
..For ever echo endlessly,
......when longing leads thy thought afar


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 1:01pm


Views: 6854
Purist?

Far too weak! I invoke Godwin's Law and declare myself a Text-Nazi! (Book-Fascist is also acceptable.)

I don't mind the curly toes, though. I think Balin developed his fondness for them during those lean years when he took jobs sneaking into cobblers' houses to mysteriously finish their work.


Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 1:04pm


Views: 6810
Ah, yes


In Reply To
I don't mind the curly toes, though. I think Balin developed his fondness for them during those lean years when he took jobs sneaking into cobblers' houses to mysteriously finish their work.


Clearly the only logical explanation!
Good one Phibbus Sly



..The land of long-forgotten name:
......no man may ever anchor near;
..No steering star his hope may aim,
......for nether Night its marches drear,
..And waters wide no sail may tame,
......with shores encircled dark and sheer.

..O! Haven where my heart would be!
......the waves beat upon thy bar
..For ever echo endlessly,
......when longing leads thy thought afar


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 1:11pm


Views: 6777
Great terms, Phibbus!


In Reply To
Far too weak! I invoke Godwin's Law and declare myself a Text-Nazi! (Book-Fascist is also acceptable.


I'll remember these when I get the urge to use "purist" in future, LOL!


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 1:11pm


Views: 6783
Could not agree more...

These two are my favorite, Balin is the quintessential Dwarf and Dwalin is just awesome.. this is what I've been waiting for

and now I cannot wait to see Thorin, and I think he will be the ultimate "bad-ass"


Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 1:11pm


Views: 6837
Ready?...

...ZOOM



Couldn't help myself Angelic


..The land of long-forgotten name:
......no man may ever anchor near;
..No steering star his hope may aim,
......for nether Night its marches drear,
..And waters wide no sail may tame,
......with shores encircled dark and sheer.

..O! Haven where my heart would be!
......the waves beat upon thy bar
..For ever echo endlessly,
......when longing leads thy thought afar


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 1:12pm


Views: 6818
Well met.

I am both the worst sort of purist when it comes to Tolkin's writing and an impure fellow when it comes to adaptation of the material to cinema. I am not so worried about the physical appearances of the characters as what those appearances mean for the heart of the story. I do bend in the wind a bit because I have not decided exactly what my life will mean. I have spent a great deal of my existence contemplating Tolkien's writings, probably more than I should have, but I still have not reached a point where I can say that I understand. I do know that I want the adaptation of the Hobbit to remain true to the spirit of the book and the extent that it diverges and becomes something else is felt by me as a loss.
I do so I love learning and have done a great deal of that here (Such a diverse group drawn to one man's creation.) but sometimes it is hard to understand where someone is coming from when they use potentially loaded terms without explanation. I can do polemic with the best of them but rants only vent the emotions and the only thing that is learned from them is that the ranter really really cares about something.

So pardon the ramble. I have got to hop back up on my fence.Wink

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 1:22pm


Views: 6748
Sorry It was I that caused the confusion

and I do not want my objection to the use of the term "purist" to be viewed as an accusation but as a sign of frustration. It is a slippery fish and its use is problematic without definition. I do however object to ":purest" being used as a term of derision (not saying that you did) without owning what it means.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 1:23pm


Views: 6776
10-4 Good Buddy!//

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 1:27pm


Views: 6859
Thank you very much for trying to explain yourself, KS.

I now feel that I understand you a TINY bit better, LOL!

And I shall apologise again for not understanding just how loaded the word "purist" is. I obviously missed the arguments. I shall also be really happy if I feel that PJ has captured the spirit of the book.


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 1:29pm


Views: 6755
Awesome


In Reply To
Far too weak! I invoke Godwin's Law and declare myself a Text-Nazi! (Book-Fascist is also acceptable.)



Zizix
Rivendell


Jul 15 2011, 1:30pm


Views: 6745
Nice!

I'm really fond of these two though Oin and Gloin are still my favourite.

First I thought Dwalin was wearing his belt on his chest but I now realize that's his hammer Wink


Quote
A powerful and bruising fighter, with a natural tendency to distrust anyone who is not a Dwarf, particularly anyone who might be an Elf, Dwalin is not someone to cross lightly.

Kili? Tongue
I am intrigued whether there really are going to be any characters that -might- be an Elf.


Delrond
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 1:35pm


Views: 6718
KS,

While I haven't been posting here for a long time, I have been lurking through the whole site for years as soon as news of a potential TH movie came about. Only recently have I read the forum more closely, so I was unaware of the potential sensitivity to the term "purist". Very succinctly, to me it means make the movie as it is written in the book. No shoehorned subplots, invented characters, or overall tonal shifts away from what Tolkien intended. I can enjoy the movies as a blend of this + PJ's creativity. The whole Aragorn/Arwen emphasis in LOTR was, to me, way overemphasized, but it still worked in the context of the movie. That doesn't mean I'll accept Monty Python's Flying Circus and call it TH - I do have limits here. Sorry for the ramble as well...

Things are now in motion that cannot be undone.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 1:37pm


Views: 6754
Balin is second in command to Thorin

and it is his respect for Bilbo that helps turn the others opinions toward the favorable.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 1:42pm


Views: 6728
Depends on the intent really

I personally quite welcome the term purist, i think it reflects the broad camp in which i stand- i want something that reflects the books in terms of character and depiction. However i'm not a 'diehard' purist- i don't reject the films as inherently useless because they do not adhere to the book. In terms of the books descriptions frankly they're either as broad as the cold readings from a psychic 'I'm getting the name....John. Is there a John in the room?' or aesthetically dodgy (Tolkien may have drawn, but he was no designerCrazy), so some of the details that Tolkien invested in his descriptions are best adapted or ignored. I'm also what you might call a film purist in so far as i liked pretty much everything about the look of Jackson's original trilogy and one of the primary appeals of his directorship was the consistency i believed it would entail. I'm not saying i wanted 13 dwarves who all looked like Gimli, but 13 dwarves who were all proportioned like him i thought was a given with PJ at the helm and the fact it hasn't been has left me rather miffed.

Getting away from the purely visual elements of being a purist, in terms of the script i am very much a book purist. I believe Tolkien knew the nature of his characters in terms of personality, arc and motivations better than Peter Jackson, and knowing what i do of Peter Jackson's adapting method which provided us with a few dud choices (xenophobic Elrond, reluctant Theoden, crazed Denethor and a Frodo that ends up mistrusting his Sam) as well as a very near miss (20-something Aragorn) i have an eye out for where history may end up repeating itself and if there is any decision made that i don't feel has full and proper justification, i'm going to tell you why. Unfortunately that does make me one of the great grumblers, and obviously pessimism does tend to bring the mood down, but it's not like i enjoy being pessimistic about it- i wish i had every reason to feel hopeful, but as the evidence comes in, obviously opinions get stated. In the defence of grumblers we do try and join in with the merriment when things really do ring our bells. I also believe that pessimists actually work harder to justify their beliefs and that does make me a little bitter- it seems that if you say 'you like it' you don't have to justify it any more than that- your approval allegedly speaks for itself and few people define the grounds on which they like something in terms of the book or in terms of their image of Middle-earth. When you disapprove it's actually a bit of a palaver since it's not socially sufficient just to say 'i hate it' and move on- makes you sound like a malcontent or worse a spammer, instead there's pressure both internal and external to find the evidence. Why don't similarly unexplained positive responses require an equal level of justification? It's a strange kind of imbalance if you look at it. Lets take Kili's proportions- if you dislike them your opinion doesn't seem valid unless you've provided categorical proof that dwarves are stumpy- quotes, references, the lot, and yet if you're fine with them you're allowed to just leave it at that with no further justification for your opinion (Presumably because that's what they are and yar boo sucks to those who dislike them- it ain't gonna change). Where's the justice?

So can the cheery brigade appreciate how expressing legitimate opinions might be a bit of a thankless task for the horrible old cynics? You might tell us not to bother but then our complaints will just be swept away- no-one listens to complaints if they can help it- they're such downers. My recommendation would be to encourage those who would otherwise write a one line praise to instead do a similar amount of research, and then we might see who's the vocal minorityAngelic. In fact that's it! That's the reason! All the silent cynics who don't have the time to waste arguing their opinions!

Malcontented essayists unite- we've got work to do!

Dr Death


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 1:49pm


Views: 6726
I love Eeyore too!

and I do enjoy a good grumble. At least you take the time to explain what you mean. Wink

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 1:57pm


Views: 6695
I like these guys.

They look very wise and sensible. Bilbo will be in good hands. Smile



And suddenly the Tornadoes saw afar off a greenlight, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame;
and they knew that this was no vision only, but that PJ had made a new thing: The Hobbit, the Film that Is.


RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 1:59pm


Views: 6689
In good hands...

... until Dwalin drops him in the goblin tunnels when he makes a run for it? Evil


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 15 2011, 2:22pm


Views: 6609
I'd just like to cheer this post, Eregyrn

... because you've said something I've tried to say here many times, and said it better.

Quote
There's a lot of things about the LOTR films that didn't match the ways I had long imagined the world and its characters. But I enjoyed the new ways it made me look at some of the material, and in many cases, they managed to capture something in a way that was better than I had been imagining it.


I've known the books around the same length of time as you have and my initial reaction to the previous films - which I found out about just a few months before Fellowship was released was a mixture of curiosity and dismay. From the pre-release publicity I could see they'd made changes, added characters, made characters do things I knew they weren't supposed to do, made them look quite different and I didn't like that. It took me a while to discover that if I embraced the films on their own terms - as you would an illustration, or a dramatisation, or someone else's point of view in a discussion - it was enjoyable and could challenge and enrich the way I saw the stories.

That's how I'm approaching these films. I'm not dismayed by the idea of a different-looking Thorin because his story and personality and the presence he has in the group are more important to me than what he looks like. I believe that they've chosen an actor who can bring those qualities to life far more effectively than some of the other actors who've been mentioned. I don't know, but that's what I think and expect, and I'm keen to see what they come up with - in the writing and acting as well as in the wig, costume and make-up.

As for the dwarves, overall I like Balin and Dwalin very much. Not so keen on the curly toes but that's minor. Thorin apart, and possibly Balin, I've never developed much of an impression of them from the book so it's interesting to be shown them as individuals and to get away from the garden gnome/ Snow White image. At the moment the one I like least is Bombur. I was a bit taken aback by Kili at first but like you I'm intrigued to see how he fits in - in fact, I'm not prepared to condemn anything on the strength of a few Photoshopped promotional photos. I want to see how they handle the issues of scale and proportion on film, how the parts are written and how the dwarves interact when they're all together. We have such a long way to go yet.


eralkfang
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 2:23pm


Views: 6607
Huh!

Balin looks great, but Dwalin really steals the show here. He looks like an dwarven action hero.

And I think he does in fact have tattoos on his head—we we wondering about that in the Entertainment Weekly photo.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 2:25pm


Views: 6627
By the way I think Oriental is a little racist

I don't think the proper word is Oriental or... chinaman for that reason. Maybe racist isn't the right word. I don't think they go by it though.... but maybe we could be talking about the rug :)

Chinaman is NOT the preferred nomenclature.... Asian-American, pleeeease.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle

(This post was edited by redgiraffe on Jul 15 2011, 2:33pm)


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 2:28pm


Views: 6822
I think the height is different because

Ken Stott is a little short and Graham Mctavish is a little tall

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Jettorex
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 2:33pm


Views: 6866
Blue beard?

Isn't one of them supposed to have a blue beard?


- "I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve."




RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 2:34pm


Views: 6791
What if the oriental person in question isn't American. At all.

Many aren't you know... Crazy


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 15 2011, 2:37pm


Views: 6788
Dori

It was actually Dori that fell and dropped Bilbo in the goblin tunnels.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 2:37pm


Views: 6854
Yeah, Dwalin is supposed to have a blue beard...

...but Balin's beard looks more blue! Also, Kili is supposed to have a yellow beard, but they seem to have omitted any bright colours... I hope they haven't taken all of the colours out of the Arkenstone too...


JJ Moon
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 2:37pm


Views: 6803
Jessie Ventura...as a dwarf?!

Not a Ventura fan, but am I the only one that Dwalin looks like Jessie "The Body", or the other way around?

"I ain't got time to Bleed", Dwalin, in The Hobbit.

Jessie Ventura, as Dwalin


eralkfang
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 2:37pm


Views: 6773
Hmm…

I believe "Oriental" is still considered okay in Europe, but in the United States, it's more or less uncomfortably old-fashioned, like the use of the word "colored". And when you're trying to describe something, it's considered polite to try and use the actual culture you think it's derived from rather than using a term that lumps together all of Asia.


RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 2:39pm


Views: 6773
Ah! Thanks for the correction!

I knew it was one of the dwarves! Wink


RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 2:40pm


Views: 6769
You may have missed the point of what I was saying! :-) //

 


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 2:42pm


Views: 6752
The Orient is a region of this earth

and if you go to the Oriental Art Museum in Chicago you would discover that the Orient is a much larger piece of land than just China. It is closer to a synonym for Asia.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 2:46pm


Views: 6738
Just so long as it does better what i've imagined

Which is possibly quite a bit harder with these films since the images the last lot inspired are actually pretty good. By and large, from appearances, to my tastes, they aren't (not Balin and Dwalin specifically there, i mean the dwarves generally). Don't get me wrong, i don't intend to boycott the films or sit in the isles hissing at designs i don't like- i will appreciate them 'on their own terms' but they haven't sold me on being the definitive versions of the characters in the same way the characters in Lord of the Rings did and ultimately, films being a visual medium the visual element is more important to me in a way than the acting- it's the images that i'll take with me going back to the book, and i'm afraid the images so far have been a bit sub-par to my eyes. Sure the performances may be good, even definitive, but they won't be as strong in your mind as you read the book. It strikes me as a pity and yes Peter Jackson can't please all of the people all of the time, ultimately there will be compromises in how you figure any element will look, but i almost wish he had played a bit more safe so as not to go treading on his own toes, let alone anyone else's.

Dr Death


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 2:48pm


Views: 6736
You pickin' on our former Governor?

Jes "The Govner of Minesota" Ventura "The Body Politic" Wink

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



FarFromHome
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 2:50pm


Views: 6762
Well


Quote
So can the cheery brigade appreciate how expressing legitimate opinions might be a bit of a thankless task for the horrible old cynics? You might tell us not to bother but then our complaints will just be swept away- no-one listens to complaints if they can help it- they're such downers. My recommendation would be to encourage those who would otherwise write a one line praise to instead do a similar amount of research, and then we might see who's the vocal minorityAngelic

If you cared to do some "research" into the past efforts of contributors to the LotR Movie Board, for example, you might find some longer and more developed thoughts on what Peter Jackson did right - and why some of the things that you dismiss so summarily here (xenophobic Elrond, reluctant Theoden, crazed Denethor and a Frodo that ends up mistrusting his Sam) might have a value beyond your own interpretation of them.

As a paid-up member of the "cheery brigade", I may be a minority of one, but I just don't have the energy to get involved in the kind of aggressive point-scoring that seems to pass for discussion a lot of the time on this board.


They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 2:50pm


Views: 6768
Ahhhh darnit, none of you got the joke

It was a reference to the Big Lebowski, that's the only reason why I posted that.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 2:52pm


Views: 6721
Indeed, as opposed to the Occident.

What I'm still a little bewildered by is why someone seems able to assume, when talking about 'oriental' styling (which I think is where this came from), that it's more correct to bring 'American' into it than not. What has America got to do with 'eastern-style' design? 'Asian-American' may be an objectively sound description of someone of Asian extraction who happens to be American, but not everything in the world is American! Wink


RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 2:53pm


Views: 6717
Went rather over my head... ;-) //

 


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 15 2011, 2:56pm


Views: 6735
You sure have taken a pretty tough stance about definitive versions...

...going by only heavily altered promotional photos. Crazy

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 2:58pm


Views: 6689
Yeah you need to see the movie

trust me it would have been funny.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 3:05pm


Views: 6697
Works for me.

I don't love them the way I love Oin and Gloin, but I they also don't make my heart sink the way Nori and Bifur do.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 3:05pm


Views: 6678
Well i mean definitive in the sense of

Complete. Other artists may depict them, but they will never be quite so alive, quite so real as the versions we shall see on the big screen- they will be very, very hard to remove from the heads of those who (like me) do not have an iron-clad image of what they 'should' look like (i do have fairly iron-clad ideas about what they shouldn't thoughLaugh)

Dr Death


Snulle
Bree

Jul 15 2011, 3:05pm


Views: 6654
Word!

Although it will take some convincing to make me "believe" in Kili as a dwarf. But I'm confident I will be very pleased in the end.


Rodu
Rivendell

Jul 15 2011, 3:11pm


Views: 6717
Dwalin's scars?

I wonder if that is scarring on Dwalin's head and fore arms from maybe dragon fire?


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 3:13pm


Views: 6669
We all know the actor's height has nothing to do with it...

Otherwise they would've chosen Warwick Davis for Bilbo. Balin is either made to look short or the actor was chosen because he was short, either way the choice was made for a reason.


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 3:14pm


Views: 6662
People are passionate because they care.

On both sides of the issue.

Some may feel that the purists are being too hardnosed, and they may feel like their opinions aren't welcome. (And unfortunately, there are probably some who are creating that impression...inadvertently or not.)

There are also times when the purist point of view has been soundly mocked and made to feel unwelcome.

We all need to learn to express ourselves without demanding that everyone else agree with us, and without sneering and looking down our noses at those who disagree.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 3:15pm


Views: 6649
Thanks for that observation

As I have found after being a member here for a number of years, there are an enormous amount of thoughful and balanced posts. So Dr D, there is researched ballast on all sides and all of the boards, even posts that have responded to your comments.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 3:17pm


Views: 7564
Oh I thought you were wondering why they were different in height

not why they deliberately chose to make them different in height.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 3:21pm


Views: 7549
Did I take your comment too seriously? :P //

 


Dwimbruk
The Shire

Jul 15 2011, 3:22pm


Views: 7572
Ok, but not the best...

Balin seems to have walked straight out of an old people's home and buckled on a sword :p He's still got his dressing gown and slippers on! Either that or he's trying to be Father Christmas...

Dwalin looks ok, but some of these weapons!?! Who in their right mind would take that thing on a 600 mile hike?

PS I think the suggestion that we should call Balin's costume 'Asian-American' takes number one spot in the list of the 'most ridiculous politically-correct sayings I've ever heard' :p


(This post was edited by Dwimbruk on Jul 15 2011, 3:23pm)


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 3:22pm


Views: 7624
I read and indeed contribute to a fair number of discussions on the LotR Movie board

And i find them very interesting, enlightening, vaguely softening (time heals), but still not wholly convincing (in the main, there have certainly been some thought provoking interpretations which have elements i can agree with). I dismiss them 'summarily' here because they're not the focus of my point, i was simply providing examples of the kind of issues i have with the original films.

For me it isn't about point's scoring, it's about objectively analysing and assessing the merits of the various decisions that are made. If there are points to be made in favour of decisions that draw largely negative attention (or indeed vice-versa) but you 'don't have the energy' to write them up, then you can't complain when the 'vocal minority' put their points across strongly. You have to fight your own corner as it were- you want to shut the malcontents up, come up with a strong argument to challenge it. If you think that we're stuck in preconceived ideas of dwarfiness, you find the quotes that prove your argument. Otherwise we might as well not bother with the actual typing part of forum life- every thread might as well be a poll, an impersonal measure of public opinion rather than the more engaging style of debates.

Dr Death


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 3:22pm


Views: 7576
Some of us call ourselves purists.

And proudly.

As you say, it is simply shorthand for desiring to remain as faithful as possible to the written canon.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 3:24pm


Views: 7596
Balin! <3 I was waiting for you, you awesome grandpa!

They're absolutely perfect. Nothing to nag about. Though we pretty much knew how they'd look like, it's great to see them well.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


FarFromHome
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 3:24pm


Views: 7531
Amen to that.


Quote
People are passionate because they care.... We all need to learn to express ourselves without demanding that everyone else agree with us, and without sneering and looking down our noses at those who disagree.

That's exactly the point I was making. A little less passion and a little more real "caring" might go a long way...




They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 3:24pm


Views: 7586
And another random observation.

This one looks even less "photographic" and more artsy-fartsy than the Bag End photos did.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 3:27pm


Views: 7527
Old age makes people shrink

and as Dwalin is the one to always carry Bilbo around, you can assume he's the biggest of the lot. So I guess it's the both.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 3:28pm


Views: 7488
No you didn't :P....

And I don't remember if my original reply was a response to you or someone else asking about their height. Either way I think I missunderstood what people meant by "Why are they at different heights like that?" :P

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 3:29pm


Views: 7622
Balin's beard

A little inspiration from Rankin and Bass' Kili, perhaps?

http://www.theonering.com/images2-9013/FiliandKili

-GM


FarFromHome
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 3:39pm


Views: 7524
You make some great points

in your post on the LotR movie board, and I always enjoy reading your thoughts there. The only reason I responded to your post here, though, was because you seemed to be implying that the lack of complex arguments in response to yours meant that there are no such arguments. In the years after the LotR movies came out there was a lot of in-depth discussion about them, including many ideas about the points you dismiss as just PJ getting things wrong. You probably aren't aware of them, because you weren't here at the time.

But if you do want to discuss your ideas in depth, I for one would be more than happy to take part - but only if you can get over peppering your thoughts with annoying little "ad hominems" (like the "cheery brigade" in your earlier post) that, for me at least, only serve to muddy the effect of the excellent points that you make.

They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



(This post was edited by FarFromHome on Jul 15 2011, 3:48pm)


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 15 2011, 3:43pm


Views: 7517
Balin is pretty much an old hogey fogey in the book though.

You know, kind of hunched over, with his pants pulled up to his chest, swinging his arms back and forth in an attempt to give himself momentum to walk but only taking 5 inch steps, while mumbling to himself. (I mean this in the kindest, grandfatherly way, by the way, just so no one thinks I'm being ageist. Angelic)

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak

(This post was edited by Maiarmike on Jul 15 2011, 3:46pm)


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jul 15 2011, 3:44pm


Views: 7525
lookin' good...

all of the dwarves look fantastic! excepting kili, of course, which still kind of baffles me as to what they were thinking-- such a misstep in what was otherwise a near perfect run of dwarves.

and that includes thorin, who we saw enough of in that bag-end photo to get a hearty thumbs up from me.

12 out of 13 ain't bad at all!


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 3:49pm


Views: 7475
The definition of purist:

A person who adheres strickly and often excessively to a tradition, especially : one preoccupied with the purity of a language and its protection from the use of forgein or altered forms
-Merria & Webster


A purist is one who desires that an item remain true to its essence and free from adulterating or diluting influences.
-Wikipedia

FYI, to me "purist" is a neutral word that simply refers to a person who wishes things to remain as close as possible to their original form, for what ever reasons.

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster

(This post was edited by Faenoriel on Jul 15 2011, 3:49pm)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 3:52pm


Views: 7501
From my perspective it is the im-purists who shout loudest //

EvilLaugh


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 3:53pm


Views: 7482
It's Tattoos and scarring

On the head are tatts, forearms are scars...



Does anyone have a hi-res version yet?


(Oversized image removed.)


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jul 15 2011, 11:26pm)


architecthis
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 3:54pm


Views: 7444
Also

I love that he is tattooed


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 3:56pm


Views: 7466
Well i thank you

It's an offer i may well take up. I apologise for the 'ad hominens' if you felt offended by them, but much like i made the point in the same post, like purist it can be used antagonistically or simply as a manner of identifying a group based on broad shared opinions. Labels and stereotypes are not exactly a politically correct but they serve a purpose- we cannot deal with a whole world on a one on one basis (and if we were, arguments aimed at single people and tailored to their unique natures would end up being 'personal attacks' in a sense) so we have our petty little preconceptions and let those who feel strongly enough to deny them make their case. It is by definition 'not personal' to stereotype and generalise.

Dr Death


chrismortega
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 4:04pm


Views: 7697
All the dwarves so far + Bilbo badly photoshopped together by me

Check it out...
http://i.imgur.com/LJ6pY.jpg

The fun part was figuring out how tall to make them all. Bilbo, I think, would be a little shorter, but he's closer to the camera.

"It was deliberate, it was deliberate..."


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 4:05pm


Views: 7431
You do make some valid points here

But then you undermine the objectivity of these observations by often dismissing counter arguments as being largely from fangirls (a term I find much more objectionable than purist) or likening such posters to bent juries. All such over the top posts are, you claim, a rhetorical device to get your point across.

Unfortunately the Internet and message boards are not good at providing the nuances of such posts to enable them to be taken in the way that I presume you intended. They often come across to me as intimidating as well as annoying, and I find it difficult to always give you the benefit of the doubt on those occasions and give reasoned, researched replies to all your posts (though I have at times tried). Perhaps if you tried to be less Deathly, you might get more variety in the responses you elicit and see the thought that does go into many of the postings on this board Wink


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 15 2011, 4:07pm


Views: 7442
I think it's liver spots.

They probably went for a Gorbachev look.

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.

(This post was edited by Pipe Dream on Jul 15 2011, 4:08pm)


chrismortega
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 4:08pm


Views: 7422
Called those head tattoos!

http://newboards.theonering.net/...?post=367702;#367702

But I was totally wrong about the mohawk. Oh well.

"It was deliberate, it was deliberate..."


dwarf_girl
The Shire

Jul 15 2011, 4:14pm


Views: 7421
Woe! It looks great

What a crowded bunch of dwarves! I imagine Thorin will be on the center. Hopefully, he will be out this afternoon/evening?


droidsocket
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 4:15pm


Views: 7495
Balin's weapon?

Can anyone make out what kind of weapon Balin has? It looks kinda like a sword but it flares out to something else!


Aelarion
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 4:15pm


Views: 6607
Wow...

Quite impressed with all the dwarf photos so far! It's definitely a challenge to distinguish them all as individuals, and I think the costuming and hair so far has done a good job. Now it's up to the actors, and I think that this group is up to the task.

Yes, Kili was a bit of a shock, but I don't think having one pretty dwarf is a deal breaker. I also get the distinct feeling that the dwarves in the movie will look a lot grungier and more realistic than these Photoshopped glamour shots.

Can't WAIT to see Thorin!

PS: I used to be a member on these boards years ago, but I forgot my name and password, so new account! Nice to be back!

"Such is of the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."


JJ Moon
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 4:17pm


Views: 6482
Ventura

Not really picking on him, but he has gone off the deep end with his conspiracy theories.

Dwalin really does look like the "Gov" though.

And, I live in Eagan, but from Brainerd originally. You betcha!

Jessie Ventura, as Dwalin


droidsocket
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 4:18pm


Views: 6486
Welcome back!!



FarFromHome
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 4:18pm


Views: 6485
And thank *you*

for your thoughtful response! I agree that it's hard to avoid making generalisations - but I do think we have to try not to generalise about people (at least, people who are listening Tongue), if only because people, by and large, don't like being generalised about! Everyone thinks their own opinion is unique and nuanced, and objects to every label, no matter how impersonally meant, because labels tend to reduce every opinion to some lowest common denominator. Of course, sometimes you just have no choice but to generalise, but I think with a little thought it's often possible to make one's arguments more objectively, in terms of the topic in hand (The Hobbit in this case), rather than by trying to address the generalised (and therefore often trivialised) comments of others.

They went in, and Sam shut the door.
But even as he did so, he heard suddenly,
deep and unstilled,
the sigh and murmur of the Sea upon the shores of Middle-earth.
From the unpublished Epilogue to the Lord of the Rings



chrismortega
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 4:24pm


Views: 6489
Thanks!

I will definitely update it when Thorin is released.

"It was deliberate, it was deliberate..."


Aelarion
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 4:28pm


Views: 6471
:D

Thank you kindly!

Somewhat upsetting to see people arguing, but I guess it's to be expected. People have such an emotional attachment to these books...

I've always felt that it didn't matter if PJ's vision for the movies differed from my own... because I like to see how others interpret such a great piece of literature. If you like or agree with his vision, it doesn't make you any less of a fan than the most staunch purist. It doesn't mean that you value the books less, or any such nonsense.

So let's all just get along and enjoy the excitement that these movies are generating!! -is a hopeless idealist-

"Such is of the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 4:30pm


Views: 6535
I noticed that too, droidsocket

Maybe it's like the uruk-hai beserker weapon where it has a spike like thing in both directions, only more of a dwarvin design.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


RoseCotton
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 4:31pm


Views: 6584
Seeing them lined up like that...

... really brings it home how large a group 13+1 is!

Numerically, it doesn't sound like 13+1 is all that much bigger than nine, but, somehow, the Fellowship never seemed like anything like so many as this group seems (and they're still one dwarf down -- plus a wizard on occasions).


rings7
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 4:33pm


Views: 6484
I was waiting for that so thanks.

I'm fairly pleased with both. I just wish i could see a pic of all of them, (once Thorin is out) with the actors' face pics next to each cause i keep forgetting who's who. Except for Kili for obvious reasons.

The dwarfs overall have been a plus for me, so much diversity, uniqueness which is something i wasn't expecting. Deep inside my guts i was expecting 13 Gimlis.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 4:34pm


Views: 6493
HAY!

Angelic

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 4:36pm


Views: 6483
A question...

It appears that this does not apply to one T. Oakenshield. Any good reason why? He is the oldest of the thirteen.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jul 15 2011, 4:37pm)


Aelarion
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 4:40pm


Views: 6488
Um?

He drank plenty of milk and avoided dwarven osteoporosis??

-is imagining those Got Milk? ads with the 13 dwarves and dieing in laughter-

"Such is of the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."


chrismortega
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 4:41pm


Views: 6504
13 Gimlis!


Quote
Deep inside my guts i was expecting 13 Gimlis.


Haha, so was I. This is why I am not a filmmaker. Great image though... I love Gimli.

"It was deliberate, it was deliberate..."


Crunchable Birdses
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 4:42pm


Views: 6455
Creative license

It's clearly been decided by the filmmakers that a Thorin in his prime works best for the film, instead on an ancient Thorin, so they've decided to change things a bit. I can understand why.

* crunch *


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 4:43pm


Views: 6442
Maybe he was so tall to begin with...

... that even when old age has caused him to shrink, he is still taller than anyone else around. Visiting Treebeard in his exile

Do you think Merry and Pippin are going to be smaller than many other hobbits when they're eleventy-one?


In Reply To
It appears that this does not apply to one T. Oakenshield. Any good reason why? He is the oldest of the thirteen.



(This post was edited by bookgirl13 on Jul 15 2011, 4:52pm)


rings7
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 4:44pm


Views: 6486
Honestly, i feel like an 'outcast' sometimes

in these boards cause i don't usually join in the arguments. I love the book, but i'm not those who want to see page by page reflected in the movies. Of any book. And it's ok if it's not how i imagine it. The movie is based on the book, not the book itself being shown in a screen. So the least thing we should expect are changes when it's adapted. So why they do this, and why they do that if in the book is different? Well, because that's what happens with adaptations.


chrismortega
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 4:45pm


Views: 6436
It's a party

I keep forgetting that there were nine in the Fellowship... you're right - it didn't seem like a lot. But 13 dwarves plus Gandalf plus Bilbo is gonna be a lot of dudes on the screen!

EDIT: to clarify, I keep forgetting that nine is a lot of dudes. And there were nine in the fellowship, so it should have looked like a lot of dudes. The fact that there were nine in the fellowship is so ingrained in my brain I couldn't forget it if I tried...

"It was deliberate, it was deliberate..."

(This post was edited by chrismortega on Jul 15 2011, 4:48pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 4:48pm


Views: 6458
Don't feel like an outcast.

And jump right into the discussions.

Most posters (even us purists) understand that an adaptation requires certain things to be changed and adjusted. I don't know of anyone who is demanding a page-by-page reiteration of the book.

The discussions simply spring from our individual views of how far we'd like that adaptation to go. Or not.

As long as nobody is implying that everyone else is an idiot for thinking differently, there is room for everyone to express an opinion.

Even you! Smile



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 4:50pm


Views: 6468
So.... many..... Dwarves.....

I'd want to see this gang take over a bar. Or a restaurant. Or someone's house.

..... wait.

Thank's for the photoshop! Smile

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Aelarion
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 4:51pm


Views: 6423
Hehe!

Yeah, I really cannot wait to see Bilbo's face when this group comes barging into his house, demanding beer and cakes and whatnot! It should be priceless!

"Such is of the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 4:54pm


Views: 6411
Surprisingly, I think we have common ground, Dr D,

and this is what we should be looking for. Thank you for all the recent posts explaining how you feel and these are the areas where I hope we could come together:

1) You welcome the term "purist" rather than being offended by it

2) You are not a diehard purist because you don't reject films merely because they don't adhere strictly to the books

3) You think it might be best to adapt or ignore some of Tolkien's details

4) You have always liked the look of PJ's LotR trilogy

5) You don't necessarily want 13 Gimli lookalikes

6) You have put a lot of hard work into studying the text.

I aplogise if this is a poor summary of previous remarks you have made, but they give me hope that we are not totally at opposite ends of the spectrum. I know that it shouldn't be important if we both disagree from now until Kingdom Come, but it still gives me a much more pleasant feeling if we can relate on some issues.

Now I would like to attempt an explanation of why some posters do not back up their remarks with studious remarks from the text. This is not because they're lazy or care less passionately than you about how PJ presents his films, and quite a few people like bookgirl have attempted to be serious and academic in their approach. But, Kangi Ska said that he will be content if the films echo "the spirit" of the book and I think that this is what many people are doing when they say they are happy with this, that and the other but don't give a supporting quote - because there ISN'T a supporting quote. You say that Thorin is the oldest in the group and we can't deny it. But what many of us are saying is that this is not a critical point for us as long as the "spirit" of Thorin is captured (and a number of people have attempted to explain what they mean by "the spirit of Thorin"). And, yes, perhaps Tolkien does suggest that Thorin's beard is white, but, again, many posters have given reasons to explain why they prefer a man in his prime rather than someone who is old and grey. Yes, we are rejecting the small number of remarks that Tolkien makes about the age and the appearance of the dwarves and we're hoping that PJ's interpretation will bring a new life to the images circling in our heads.

We, (the "cheery brigade"), don't mind the new ideas being put forward and perhaps you do. Well, I'm sorry for that and I hope we can find at least a little common ground when the photo of Thorin comes out and, more importantly, when we see them all acting and relating to one another in the actual films.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 4:58pm


Views: 6422
Just how are they all going to fit in?

And the house is Hobbit sized too!

I can imagine some chair being broken under them. Tongue

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 4:59pm


Views: 6398
What can this old fogy say.

According to Tolkien old Dwarves can still kick but. And Bilbo was 50 in the Hobbit and so was Frodo when he set out for Mordor. The youth cult is a delusion instilled by to many television commercials . And stay off my lawn.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Jim
Rivendell


Jul 15 2011, 5:02pm


Views: 6362
Good job...

Though you would have major difficulties in making it your desktop background. Laugh


rings7
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 5:03pm


Views: 6383
It's allright

It's just that it reminds me my English college classes, when we spent hours and hours (night 3 hour classes) digesting a book that was made into a movie. I was mostly like 'can this be over now?' Crazy

I'm not necessarily bothered, i exagerated by saying 'page by page' i know you guys don't expect that. I'm just in the side of 'that's how the director and crew want it done for a reason' and be done with it. Angelic


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 5:06pm


Views: 6729
As Mickey says:

Its a small world after all...yah sure.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Aelarion
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 5:06pm


Views: 6742
Bravo...

I think this is an excellent post explaining how someone can be a die-hard Tolkien fan AND not mind the (obvious) changes being made in the films.

I would like to add one more point.

Some people cannot (or will not) back up their ideas with quotes from the text. Part of the reason may be that they simply don't see the need, as ShireHorse says. As long as the spirit of the book is intact, they will be pleased. However, let me also point out that for some people, the movies are their only exposure to Middle-Earth. This is not because they are too lazy to read, or anything like that. My sister, for example, has a reading disability and could never make it all the way through Lord of the Rings. It would frustrate her and take away from her enjoyment. So I was thrilled when she sat down and watched the movies with me for the first time. They allowed her access to a world that she otherwise would have written off as inaccessible. Is her experience the same as mine? No, of course not. But we are able to find common ground and enjoy Middle-Earth together.

There is a tendency to mock or disregard people who are fans of the movies first -- who read the books after seeing the films or haven't read the books at all. I don't think that is fair. We should be welcoming everyone and all opinions... doing so will only enhance our own appreciation of Tolkien's works.

"Such is of the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 5:07pm


Views: 6688
Fair enough.

It's just that "that's how he wants it" (or "that's how he wrote it") doesn't leave room for a lot of conversation. And we have to talk about something for the next 18 months. Laugh



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 5:07pm


Views: 6758
You have a very healthy attitude!

If you're anything like me and feel uncomfortable with open conflicts, I can see why you would like to stay out of the pot.

I like the books more than any other books, and I respect and idolize Tolkien as a private person. I'm passionately "purist" about the books and can go on and on about them and all the details and nuances for hours if allowed... Blush

But the movies are just fun. I don't take them too seriously or want to put a collar on the producers to force them work inside my comfortability zone. I want the movie makers to bring together all their creative madness and make us some entertaining films that possibly lure more people into reading Tolkien. Smile

Plus, I think we should have buried Tolkien in a larger coffin, he probably cant turn very well in his. -Rossmonster


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 5:10pm


Views: 6729
Yes, indeed.


In Reply To
We should be welcoming everyone and all opinions... doing so will only enhance our own appreciation of Tolkien's works.



Absolutely!

By the way, does your sister care for audiobooks at all? I wholeheartedly recommend the audiobooks narrated by Rob Inglis, of both The Hobbit and The Lord of the Rings. It's the complete text, not an adaptation, and it would allow her to experience the books without the frustration of trying to read them.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Aelarion
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 5:14pm


Views: 6699
Yes,

It's certainly an option, and one that we used when she was still in school.

The wonderful thing, however, is that all of these movies like LotR, Harry Potter and even Twilight (ugh), have finally awakened a love of reading in her. It takes her a while to get through a whole book, but she can do it now and actually enjoy it. This is a huge step from even 5 years ago, when reading was absolute torture for her.

Most of us take reading for granted; for some people, it's a skill that needs a lot of practice and training (almost like exercise).

"Such is of the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 5:14pm


Views: 6753
Ooh! Awesome!

They look pretty awesome! Smile NNow we need Thorin!

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 5:19pm


Views: 6778
P-s-s-t:

Can you say artsy-fartsy here?


Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jul 15 2011, 5:20pm


Views: 6765
13 minus 1.



Click image to enlarge

If anyone wants to host the full size image (3417 X 972) @ 581KB JPG, PM me your email and I'll send it.

P.S. keep in mind this is still "low res" Balin and Dwalin

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.

(This post was edited by Pipe Dream on Jul 15 2011, 5:22pm)


rings7
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 5:20pm


Views: 6700
I'm glad you don't take them that seriously

i still remember one of my teachers ripping Kenneth Branagh apart when he did Mary Shelley's Frankenstein. I was like geez lady calm down it's just movie!Sly


(This post was edited by rings7 on Jul 15 2011, 5:21pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 5:23pm


Views: 6700
Well, I've been a voracious reader my whole life.

My mom claims that I came home from the first day of kindergarten miffed that they hadn't taught me to read that day. Crazy

But even though I love to read, I still adore audiobooks, and I listen to them all the time. I'm currently listening to an incredible audiobook adaptation of The Return of Sherlock Holmes, performed by the incomparable Sir Derek Jacobi.

One of the things I particularly enjoyed about the Inglis Hobbit and LOTR was his performance of the poetry and songs. I hate reading poetry, but I love listening to it, and it added immeasurably to my appreciation of Tolkien to hear the poetry recited and the songs actually sung to tunes.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Aelarion
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 5:25pm


Views: 6661
Right!

Besides which, Branagh redeemed himself for all past and future gaffes when he made Hamlet. (Sorry, I just love his version too much!)

If the movies are fun and follow the story reasonably well, I will be pleased as punch! (I do still have my doubts about adding any female elf/love story angle).

"Such is of the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 5:26pm


Views: 6772
Balin's axe

I am pretty disappointed that Balin doesn't have the axe which Gimli picked up in FOTR film !!


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 5:29pm


Views: 6653
Father Christmas, indeed

I saw that right off with Balin, which is somewhat fitting in that he's the one that really befriends Bilbo on the quest and is the most sage in advice.

Dwalin is just going to be one mean tiger in battle, to be sure, but Fili and Kili look they are ready to rumble as well.

On the whole, I think we've got a little bit of everything in this group, which is as it should be.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


Aelarion
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 5:29pm


Views: 6679
Ooh!

Holmes read by Derek Jacobi sounds amazing!! I have to admit, I've never listened to an audiobook, but now you've piqued my interest.

My friend has also been enjoying George Martin's A Song of Ice and Fire on audiobook, so the medium seems to be gaining a lot of popularity.

/end of off-topic stuffs

"Such is of the course of deeds that move the wheels of the world: small hands do them because they must, while the eyes of the great are elsewhere."


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 5:30pm


Views: 6729
Balin in a fight?

It dosen't seem possible that an old dwarf like Balin could survive a skirmish with goblins. Can he lift his own axe? Wink

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 5:31pm


Views: 6702
The Tolkien Ensemble

They have recorded all the songs and poetry in LotR. You can hear some if their stuff on You Tube. Listening to their rendition of Tom Bombadil's was a revelation. Colin Rudd has done some good versions as well.

It made a huge difference to me being able listen to the poetry being sung.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 5:31pm


Views: 6693
Don't be

It's Durin's. I've done the research and according to the book to film canon, Balin only gets that axe which is later picked up by Gimli once he's settled himself as Lord of Moria.

Dr Death


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 5:31pm


Views: 6647
That was a birth mark on Gorbie.//

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 5:32pm


Views: 6646
Not as bad as you think!

This pic serves as a good guide to see all the dwarves together (without Thorin). Thank you!

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 5:36pm


Views: 6736
I think Kili & Thorin are cut from the same jib.

How can you like one and not the other?

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 5:38pm


Views: 6609
Not bad

Lay a little transparent gray on the Hobbit and you've got it.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 5:40pm


Views: 6641
Oriental stretches from the Middle-east to Asia

In ancient times through the Colonial Era, there was the Near East (Turkey, being the border between East and West, the Ottoman Empire), then you had the Middle East (Iran and Iraq and Arabia, the Persian Empire) and then you had the Far East (India, China, Korea and Japan, and both the Mongolian Empire and the Chinese Empire), and all were linked by various trade routes, both by ship and via the Silk Road. So fashions and fabrics and foods travelled far and wide in the ancient world, so that a look that would seem indicative of one culture can be seen in far off countries. During the Regency period in England, it was all the rage to wear Indian and Chinese silks and decorate your home in that manner.

So those robes Balin is wearing do have a distinct Persian feel to them, very similar to what Boromir was wearing in fact, and yet, they could also very easily be Russian in influence, which also happens to share a border with China.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 5:45pm


Views: 6669
Oh I see !!

Hats off to you and your research Smile


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 5:55pm


Views: 6644
'You're full of surprises Master Baggins'

Yes, we do have a fair bit of common ground- i'm not quite the crotchety sod i frequently appear to be. In terms of Thorin, from the empire pics i've actually got reason to be civil about Richard Armitage- not so much optimistic but he does appear to have 'gone through the dwarfing process' with an expanded head, more of a beard than Kili (designer stubble really is the death of claims of dwarvishness for me) and a fairly 'hench' build. He might not be my Thorin, but hey i have my contingency plan sorted (not only will i be able to picture my preferred Ian McShane in the role but he's also going to be playing the leader of another company of dwarves in Snow White). To be honest i feel very guilty about hating Richard Armitage so much as Thorin, god help the man if he ever read my posts- i'd be sat there thinking 'the poor muppet'. But like his casting, i've now become rather resigned to the inadequacies of his look so you could say 'the only way is up' (to which i might reply 'just when you think you've hit the bottom somebody hands you a shovel'). Who knows, if he looks good but not quite my Thorin i might relegate him to one of the other unsatisfactory dwarf visuals rather than bumping him out of my mental Middle-earth altogether (then again he does have the look of a fairly cracking Caranthir- Aquiline Armitage rides again Tongue) and his performance may yet impress. It's all up in the air, but i shall judge him fairly and objectively.

It's interesting that you mention the 'spirit' of the character of Thorin too. Because a couple of days ago i went for a skim read of every source that might possibly describe him. I poured through The Hobbit, LotR's appendicies, Unfinished Tales, Tolkien's letters, even the 1960 Hobbit rewrite and i'm rather ashamed to say there wasn't one bloody usage of the word 'old' in regards to him- not even 'greybeard' (that term i found referring to the men of Laketown). Balin is 'old', even Bombur is 'old' (and not just 'poor old', in fact i think there are more usages for Bombur being 'old' than there are for Balin). So i must conclude that it is a part of the unquantifiable 'spirit' of Thorin that makes him old in so many people's minds- along with a few hints- he's the only dwarf referred to as 'father' by the elves, he makes clear his eyesight's failing (then again he shoots the deer with remarkable reflexes and precision for one so enfeebled) and Tolkien describes all the dwarves up the trees 'with their beards hanging down like old gentlemen gone cracked and playing at being boys'. The wagging beard of Thorin visible in the pitch black also suggests it's well on it's way to white. There's more but i think that'll suffice to batter my unassailable conviction of Thorin's old age into submission as being based merely on hints rather than explicit words. Angelic

Dr Death


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 5:55pm


Views: 6921
Yes, they appear to look alike

From the very blurry shot that we saw in Empire Magazine.


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 5:57pm


Views: 6913
Good point...

and one I was going to raise earlier. I think Balin's costume is not so much actually Oriental as it is Orientalizing. It reflects that 19th-century rage for all things Eastern and exotic... which ideas were usually reinterpreted into something far less authentic than impressionistic and fanciful.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 5:59pm


Views: 6993
Thanks, Pipe dream...

we can always count on you!

Permanent address: Into the West





redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 6:03pm


Views: 6957
Yeah I agree

Balin's costume seems to have that sort of Eastern or Asian feel to it. It just looks like it's got that "eastern" influence. Strange thing too is that I remember the theme for Lothlorien having a big eastern (i think it was specifically Indian) type of influence. If you go back and listen to where the fellowship enters the forest before they meet with the elves you can hear what sounds kind of like an esraj.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle

(This post was edited by redgiraffe on Jul 15 2011, 6:05pm)


Gimli1252
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 6:21pm


Views: 6920
high res for balin and dwalin...????anybody...???

 

''There is one dwarf yet in Moria, who still draws breath''


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 6:23pm


Views: 6863
It's been a while since I read the book...

was Balin older than Thorin? If not, shouldn't we logically be able to assume RA should look older? But I doubt he will.

Age is good. Or at least, it beats the alternative.Angelic

Permanent address: Into the West





marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 6:25pm


Views: 6831
Yeah


In Reply To
Well, Ken Scott playing Balin is only 5'7, so he's pretty much the shortest dwarf, which makes Graham McTavish (Dwaling) look taller, because he's over 6ft, yet shorter than Richard Armitage (Thorin).


The dwarves probably have roughly the actors height differences. McTavish is tall, Scott is fairly small-ish so put them next to each other and it looks like a "tall dwarf" when really, it's a short dwarf standing next to a shorter dwarf, in the wider outlook. So we can assume that Dean O'Gorman is a bit shorter than Aidan Turner, thus Kili looks "tall" because he's taller than Fili but I'm sure he's going to look plenty short when put into context. LOL McTavish is over 6 ft., Turner is 6ft, Armitage is supposed to be around 6 ft 2 though I've always wondered if he's a bit taller, maybe he's just been lucky enough to work with a lot of short actors that makes him look bigger. LOL


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 6:26pm


Views: 6867
Thorin was the oldest.//

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Buchanicus
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 6:31pm


Views: 6822
yes


In Reply To

Quote

As a paid-up member of the "cheery brigade", I may be a minority of one, but I just don't have the energy to get involved in the kind of aggressive point-scoring that seems to pass for discussion a lot of the time on this board.



I concur.

The main thing that bothers me is when people post in "absolutes". That their strong-opinions are fact, and depending on whether or not you agree or disagree places you into this group or that. It drives me crazy, and it is always something that can be allieviated by including "in my opinion..." or "My thoughts are..." or "For my tastes...".

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 6:32pm


Views: 6857
Looking good again...

It seems as predicted on the boards, Balin will be the "elder statesman" and experianced Dwarf Lord of the group, while Dwalin will be the "ultimate warrior".

BTW, Balin has doubts about retaking the Lonely Mountain, but going back to Moria seems like a fantastic idea?!

Probably the success of Thorin & CO. dispatching with Smaug will change Balin's mind...for the worse, obviously...

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Jul 15 2011, 6:33pm)


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 6:32pm


Views: 6898
In the LOTR Appendices...

Thorin is described as being older than Balin. Since Balin was described in the Hobbit as (and I paraphrase) very old, with a snow white beard tucked in his belt, it is safe and reasonable to assume that Thorin looked either older than Balin, or at least looked quite old. So, if they go with a young Thorin, it will not be consistent with the Thorin described in Tolkien's universe.


Buchanicus
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 6:32pm


Views: 6867
Definitely.


In Reply To


We all need to learn to express ourselves without demanding that everyone else agree with us, and without sneering and looking down our noses at those who disagree.


TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 6:38pm


Views: 6807
Ah, thank you!

I know it's past time for me to re-read the books, but my sleeping patterns stay so out of whack that I'm usually too sleepy to do much good reading anymore and concentrate--that's why I listen to audiobooks mostly.

I'm glad Balin looks as old as he does, then, but it will be a little off to see RA looking so much younger than Balin. I assume he is the second eldest?

Permanent address: Into the West





sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jul 15 2011, 6:39pm


Views: 6882
thorin and kili, dut frome the same jib?

you may be right-- i hadn't looked at the bag-end photos in a week or so and was going from memory. what thorin seems to have going for him is maybe his hair and beard(kinda hard to tell from that photo though), but his nose looks a little too human, which is my main problem with kili (along with that wind-blown, beautiful, lustrous hair).

it's just that kili is such obvious chick bait, and thorin (from the admittedly blurry photo) seems to be heading into classic leading man territory, which makes more sense to me. just as long as he's not *too* pretty.

i guess we'll know soon enough.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 6:48pm


Views: 6781
I am in the middle of the Audio-book of The Hobbit now.

I think the production was worried that the general population would not buy an older looking Thorin. I keep thinking: But he is a Tolkien Dwarf his hair color does not matter.Evil

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



chrismortega
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 6:49pm


Views: 7021
Better photoshopped image of all the dwarves + bilbo and gandalf

http://i.imgur.com/VOc7X.jpg

"It was deliberate, it was deliberate..."


Phibbus
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 6:49pm


Views: 6795
Laugh!


In Reply To
BTW, Balin has doubts about retaking the Lonely Mountain, but going back to Moria seems like a fantastic idea?!

Probably the success of Thorin & CO. dispatching with Smaug will change Balin's mind...for the worse, obviously...

Dwarves are prone to the vagaries of inductive reasoning. You get spoiled when your troupe all narrowly escape annihilation a dozen times during the course of one book.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 6:57pm


Views: 6790
Balin is a Dwarf

don't let his appearance fool you.


Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 7:01pm


Views: 6822
Yes, but it's still only a hint

Trust me, i would love the smoking gun to be there, but in terms of Thorin's own descriptions there is no explicit reference either to him looking 'old' nor the colour of his beard. What the books don't say obviously is about as tenuous a justification you can get, but much to my personal chagrin the active reference to Thorin's appearance in that regard doesn't exist. That said i shall provide the hints i did find:


Quote
Not without a mighty warrior, even a Hero. I tried to find one; but warriors are busy fighting one another in distant lands


Quote
'Don't dip your beard in the foam, father!' They cried to Thorin who was bent almost onto his hands and knees. 'It is long enough without watering it.'


Quote
It was so dark he could only just see Thorin's beard wagging beside him


Quote
You would have laughed (from a safe distance), if you had seen the dwarves sitting up in the trees with their beards hanging down like old gentlemen gone cracked and playing at being boys


Quote
'Twelve yards! I should have thought it thirty at least, but my eyes don't see as well as they used a hundred years ago'

Balin assumes the role of spokesman for the company when they're questioned by Thranduil on the grounds that he was 'the eldest left'.

Quote
Though he had hunted chiefly for the Arkenstone, yet he had an eye for many another wonderful thing that was lying there, about which were wound old memories of the labours and sorrows of his race


Quote
Dain was still King Under the Mountain, and was now old (having passed his two hundred and fiftieth year)

Thror is described as 'old, poor and desperate' when he gave Thrain his ring. When he asks if he was returning to Erebor he declares 'not at my age'. Tolkien doesn't specify exactly when Thror went off wandering but he dies aged 248 and he escaped from Erebor only twenty years earlier meaning that he must be at least 228 when he surrendered his ring. There is therefore a point in the span of twenty years within which he was young enough to escape with a dragon at his tail but unable to travel the distance to Erebor (or at least travel there and fight, although surely he didn't intend to do the latter alone).
Dain is interesting- he's described as a 'stripling' at 32 when he fights at Azanulbizar, but at 252 in the War of the Ring, Gandalf remarks of his death it was "a wonder that in his great age he could still wield his axe as mightily as they say". Thorin at 195 therefore is not quite 'ancient' but the evidence suggests he's past his best. He is described as 'a great dwarf of proud bearing' at 95 which to me suggest that that is when he would be in his prime- mid thirties to mid forties by modern standards, more likely towards the younger end since the context suggests 95 is still pretty young. By the time he reached 195 however i'm pretty sure the common estimate of Thorin being in his late middle-age/retirement age stands.

Dr Death


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 7:01pm


Views: 6727
Maybe its living undre Dain's rule that sends him off to regain his true kingdom.

Durin's empire. The Dwarrowdelf.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Dipling
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 7:03pm


Views: 6768
Kili

Hello.
Whats up with Kilis fingers?
Look at his hand.

http://cinemania.es/app/webroot/images/2011/julio/hobbit_enanos_hd/fili_kili.jpg

Bad photoshop.


(This post was edited by Dipling on Jul 15 2011, 7:05pm)


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 7:03pm


Views: 6764
Putting them into context makes a difference

Seeing them with a giant Gandalf in the background, makes them all immediately seem dwarf-like, some more so than others. But it is more difficult to see them as miniature men or elves when they are so small compared with other races.


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 7:07pm


Views: 6784
Its good

but Gandalf looks like he grew a few feetLaugh. Yes I know the dwarves are smaller than humans and wizards but still....LaughLaugh

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 7:09pm


Views: 6795
Right..

But Balin was described in detail as looking very old, and Thorin is described as being older than Balin, so we can make a very reasonable assumption that Thorin does indeed look old.


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 7:12pm


Views: 6686
I think it's something entirely different...



**********************************


NARF
NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 7:14pm


Views: 6867
Good job! Now, when Thorin comes out...

we'll be watching for your final photoshop release.

Permanent address: Into the West





Coley
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 7:15pm


Views: 6962
here's a wallpaper I made

using all of the dwarves so far. It isn't quite done yet (waiting on Thorin to complete the picture), but here's a look:

http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/200/dwarfwall.jpg

An unexpected journey unfolds...

December 2012

(This post was edited by Coley on Jul 15 2011, 7:16pm)


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 7:15pm


Views: 6853
"Being" and "looking" can be two entirely different things.

I know some very elderly looking 50-somethings, and some very young looking 70-somethings.

And even Balin, as old as he's supposed to be, needs to be hale and hearty enough to lead the expedition to Moria 50 years after the events in the Hobbit.



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 7:17pm


Views: 6837
I guess we'll find out.

But so far I haven't been moderated. Evil



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 7:17pm


Views: 6836
Which one?

I've only heard the BBC audio dramatization--I haven't heard any of the readings.

Permanent address: Into the West





dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 15 2011, 7:19pm


Views: 6823
So am I, as it happens...

... and I suppose my feeling on the whole age thing is that, when it comes down to it, they were never going to be able to find a 195-year old dwarf to play the part. So the actor was always going to be much, much younger and arguing whether 60 plays 195 better than 40 does is a bit like arguing angels on pin heads. It's Thorin's demeanour that matters to me; his authority, his expectation of what is due to him and the essential tragedy of his position. I'm also hoping (and I will duck and run once I've said this Wink ) that they may be able to bring out a more nuanced character than is immediately obvious from the book - as they did, very successfully, I think, with Boromir. As a child I thought Thorin was proud, bossy, greedy and grumpy and very mean to Bilbo and I didn't like him. It took me years to see more to him than that, though now I understand that there is more if you look for it and I'm hoping (and expecting) they will bring that out. I say 'expecting' because I reckon this is partly what the choice of Richard Armitage is about.

Incidentally, looking at the Photoshopped version linked in this thread (sorry, can't remember who by) of all the dwarves together two things strike me. One is that I wonder if Balin is actually too old. Please don't throw turnips - it's just that we have to believe him capable of not only enduring the adventure itself, and fighting in the Battle, but of later deciding to take off the Moria and reclaim that for the dwarves....

Second thought is that none of the group stands out to my eye as the authority figure. If I didn't know who they were supposed to be, and someone said, 'which of these do you think is the king?' I wouldn't be sure and I wouldn't mind betting that faced with the same question we'd all pick different ones. So I wonder if Thorin will stand out visually as the leader - that will be interesting to see.


marillaraina
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 7:20pm


Views: 6848
No


In Reply To
But Balin was described in detail as looking very old, and Thorin is described as being older than Balin, so we can make a very reasonable assumption that Thorin does indeed look old.


Imo we can also very reasonably assume that Balin looked very old, which IMO means he looked much older than anyone else, including Thorin, otherwise his "very old" looks would not have needed to be singled out. He singled out as looking very old like Bombur was singled out as very fat. To me that means no one looked close to being as old, in one case, or as fat, in the other, as they did.


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 7:22pm


Views: 6885
In regards to Thorin's age and look

We haven't seen a good closup of his face yet. A good detailed closeup could show us something completely different. Just because his hair is dark doesn't mean that his face might not have gone through a makeup process that makes it look older. Just keep that in mind.

Basically, what I'm saying is that we are really just comparing the hair of one to the other right now. And that's all we can compare. But Thorin's face might have a more worn, older look to it (much like John Howe's drawing of Thorin). I'm not saying that he will look older, I'm just saying it's possible so we really can't debate the old look yet.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle

(This post was edited by redgiraffe on Jul 15 2011, 7:31pm)


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 7:25pm


Views: 7085
High-Res photos (Unfortunantly Dwalin and Balin not included)

I just found these photos in high-res! Enjoy:

Bilbo and Dwarves

Gandalf

More at: The Final Stage

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Zherkezhi
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 7:32pm


Views: 6795
Great!

Thank you so much for these images! :)


elostirion74
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 7:32pm


Views: 6886
definitely liked one of them

I´m very satisfied with Balin, he looks old and dignified, as I hoped he would.

Dwalin is taller and larger than I would have expected of a dwarf, but apart from that he is ok with me.


esheming
Bree

Jul 15 2011, 8:07pm


Views: 6818
Mines of Moria sequence?

Seeing Balin makes me wonder if we'll get to see on-screen what happened to the Dwarves in the Mines of Moria. I don't see how it would naturally fit in with the narrative of The Hobbit, unfortunately, but has anyone noticed that Ori is holding a book? Could it be the Book of Mazarbul?? I always assumed that was Ori's little skeleton that was holding the Book in the 'Fellowship' film. Is it Oin who gets dragged away by the Watcher? This could even be its own short film ~ maybe WETA could film this story for home video 'after' the Hobbit films have both released...


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jul 15 2011, 8:08pm


Views: 6703
The unabridged narated by Rob Inglis.

I have owned if for years. iused to listen to it and The Lord of the Rings and the Silmarillion when I had a longer commute. Now mostly at night. I also hace all of the Harry Potter books narrated by Jim Dale on CD and quite a few Terry Pratchett books on Cd. They are like movies in the mind. But they do put you to sleep. It takes a long time to hear all of the book at night.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Richie Rich
Rivendell


Jul 15 2011, 8:08pm


Views: 6709
Heeeeeeey

They used the group photo I made, HaHa. Thieves!



Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 8:11pm


Views: 6718
See, that's the version I need to get...

I love the dramatization, but so much is missing, and I need to know the particulars in order to be able to know what to expect (or notWink) in the movies. It must be 20 years or more since I've read The Hobbit.

Permanent address: Into the West





Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 8:20pm


Views: 6748
'Retirement age' is a low estimate

If we're trying to guess what Thorin should look like by human standards using only Man/Dwarf age equivalents as a reference, then yes, it might be fair to say he should resemble a man in late middle age. However, that conclusion neglects the fact that Thorin has walked Middle-earth for 195 years at the time the Quest of Erebor takes place, 171 of which he spent in exile. The sheer quantity of time he's spent merely existing and contemplating the reclamation of his kingdom (with a few vicious battles sprinkled in for good measure) should ensure that he looks very haggard and weary – significantly more so than a typical Dwarf of his age. And actor in his sixties sounds more like it to me.


Snulle
Bree

Jul 15 2011, 8:23pm


Views: 6648
Tricksy thieves!

Those nasssssssty thieves, we hatessssss it forever! ...Angelic


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 8:26pm


Views: 6709
That's one solace i have with Armitage as opposed to say Brian Cox

Thorin is very like Agamemnon in many ways, their age, their attitude to physical objects denied to them, and so when the Brian Cox rumours were going around i was very worried that they might make for a rather simplistic antagonistic Thorin, a greedy, petty, physically powerful but rather thick old man who is outsmarted by plucky young Bilbo. This wasn't how Thorin appeared to me when i read The Hobbit aged 12 but i could see how easy it would be for him to go that way. The choice of Richard Armitage though promises that Thorin will be portrayed rather tragically, even if it means that the underlying motivations for his tragedy (being an old king facing the possibility of dying ignominiously of old age without fulfilling his duty to his people or producing an heir to inherit it) is altered. It's an arc which is closer to Theoden's (particularly the film's version) than it is to Aragorn or Boromir's in terms of tone and i hope not all of it will be worn away, even given the younger actor, but in terms of the level of empathy Richard Armitage's Thorin will invoke i think the kind of ageism inherent in hollywood will actually help him out.

Dr Death


Radagast_the_Brown
Rivendell


Jul 15 2011, 8:26pm


Views: 6725
Dwalin

Is the best one yet. Can't wait to see him wield that hammer in battle!

All you have to decide, is what to do with the time that is given to you...


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 8:30pm


Views: 6670
I completely agree

Don't worry- i'm not selling out on Thorin. In terms of aesthetics Richard Armitage certainly isn't my Thorin (i'm planning of doing a portrait, nay even a life-sized sculpted bust of Ian McShane done up as Thorin), but my smoking gun regrettably wasn't there. I'm also looking through Ian McShane's back catalogue for a possible vocal track of Thorin's dialogue- just in caseTongue. I wonder if i could get a letter through to him how much he'd charge for a 'dictaphone' performance of Thorin's lines.....

Dr Death


Dipling
Lorien

Jul 15 2011, 8:35pm


Views: 6627
Kili

Kili has too many fingers: http://cinemania.es/app/webroot/images/2011/julio/hobbit_enanos_hd/fili_kili.jpg


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 8:37pm


Views: 6646
Maybe if you stuck Bombar's groupshot...

before the first group you could bring them closer together? Or it may be that your current picture will be best to stick Thorin in the middle. Or Gandalf, to show the respective size? Either way, I love how you put the movie title in. This is my new wallpaper. Thanks!

Permanent address: Into the West





Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 8:39pm


Views: 6679
True enough...

He probably ended up with an immortality complex. Tongue

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.


Buchanicus
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 8:40pm


Views: 6667
Awesome!

Thanks for the links! Those are perfect.

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


Coley
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 9:10pm


Views: 6628
Thanks

And you hit the nail on the head, the idea from the beginning was to put Thorin in the middle. He is the leader after all! Cool

An unexpected journey unfolds...

December 2012


Richie Rich
Rivendell


Jul 15 2011, 9:29pm


Views: 7073
Group Photo (Yeah I realize I'm a little late to the party)

I was hoping to get the hi-res version of the new fellas before I put this together, but it'll have to do for now: http://i55.tinypic.com/2jepy8p.jpg. Once I'm ambitious enough to add Mr. Baggins to the picture, I'll change the title, but right now it's all about the bearded fellows! I matched up all the backgrounds the best I could, and I did try to tame Kili's hair a bit.



Mooseboy018
Grey Havens


Jul 15 2011, 9:37pm


Views: 6952
Not to be nitpicky...

But Dori was the one who got stuck carrying Bilbo a lot, and even Bombur had to once.Tongue


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Jul 15 2011, 9:39pm


Views: 6844
Really? I always confuse them. Thanks for the clarification! //

 

Visit Mexico from A to Z! Index to the whole series here.
Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!



Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 9:42pm


Views: 6817
Thanks!

Great Job!Smile

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 15 2011, 9:48pm


Views: 6807
Its weird

how different bifur and bofur look in the empire pic as compared to the promo image !


Dalgalad
The Shire


Jul 15 2011, 9:49pm


Views: 6867
This one really brings out the colours..

and shows the similarity between the styling of Gloin and Gimli in LotR.

Great work


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 15 2011, 10:07pm


Views: 6802
Can you imagine?

if this group photo had been released as the first promotional image?

Very nicely combined! nice job.


rings7
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 10:16pm


Views: 6777
Thorin's face looks young almost intact

So get your comments ready for a young looking Thorin.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 10:17pm


Views: 6797
Another awesome composition. For me, though,

it does tend to make Kili stick out even more--NOT your fault.

I know I'm the only one, but I need to print out a picture and put their names on top. Kili, Bombur and Balin are the only only ones I don't have to think a few minutes, or look back into other posts about.

Permanent address: Into the West





Radagast_the_Brown
Rivendell


Jul 15 2011, 10:18pm


Views: 6787
Group photo is fantastic

and really makes you appreciate each individual Dwarf in comparison to each other. Balin especially stands out, and I imagine Thorin will too, which is for the best.

As for this ongoing purist debate... We have 13 Dwarves as written in the book with the same names and alot of the same traits while others have been expanded on their almost negligible descriptions and a total lack of illustration. I really think people need to use some perspective. As far as adapting goes, PJ is quite a remarkable purist. When I think of how both these movies and the LOTR series COULD have gone.... I'll take what I'm given. There are plenty of things I didn't like in the LOTR movies but in no instance was it because they didn't match my view of the books, rather because they didn't work for me on screen. As much pleasure as I glean from seeing certain things brought to life, that's really what concerns me.

All you have to decide, is what to do with the time that is given to you...


Muireadhaigh
Rivendell


Jul 15 2011, 10:28pm


Views: 6723
I see what you mean

I think Kili and Fili both look out of place.


duats
Grey Havens

Jul 15 2011, 10:31pm


Views: 6783
As of now

Here are my favorites in order:

1) Balin
2) Dwalin
3) Gloin
4) Oin
5) Bombur
6) Dori
7) Bifur
8) Bofur
9) Ori
10) Nori (NOTE: I like his look for the most part. But that hair drags him down a few points. If it looks better in context (i.e. isn't so perfectly shaped and wig-like), he may move up a few spots)
11) Fili
12) Kili (HATE HATE HATE HATE HAAAAATE)


(This post was edited by duats on Jul 15 2011, 10:37pm)


namarie
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 10:37pm


Views: 6736
glad to see Balin is the white-haired one

and that his costume is red :)

So, will be Thorin revealed over the weekend? Smile


There is always hope


Macfeast
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 10:42pm


Views: 6706
I'm not so certain...

Would Ori be carrying the Book of Mazarbul at the time of the Hobbit? I always had the impression that that book was specifically about the recolonization of Moria (Gandalf says that "It seems to be a record of the fortunes of Balin's folk"), and if so, why would Ori carry around an empty book during the Hobbit that he never writes in?

My guess is that the book will serve a similar purpose as the Book of Mazarbul; To keep a record on the quest that they are currently undertaking. It's meta-purpose will also be to establish a link between Ori and the Book of Mazarbul, make people go "oh, he's a book-worm, could he have been the one who wrote the Book we see in Moria during the Trilogy?"

As for a Moria-segment during an epilogue, I would love to see. Do we know how much of an epilogue/bridge to the Trilogy there will be, if any?


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Jul 15 2011, 10:43pm)


kore mo te kore
Registered User

Jul 15 2011, 10:42pm


Views: 6687
Looking good

I'm happy, to varying degrees, with what we've seen so far. Only the two youngsters seemed slightly out of kilter, but that diminished with the group shot - they do fit in there!

Balin is almost exactly as I imagined him and alongside Bombur he's the closest match to how I always saw the group. Dwalin's hammer - damn, that's an evil thing! I can see how these guys will fight as a group. Dwalin smacking things up good and hard, if a little slowly given the weight of a great hammer, with the smaller weapons cutting faster to let him get at the big bad foes.

I smile!


namarie
Rohan


Jul 15 2011, 10:44pm


Views: 6683
Thanks for The Dwarves :)

So, they did a good job establishing an identity for every dwarf.

Kili seems the only one a out of place though :)


There is always hope


kore mo te kore
Registered User

Jul 15 2011, 10:52pm


Views: 6703
Oh... dear.

Nice work. My GODS Kili sticks out like a saw thumb.... pity.


duats
Grey Havens

Jul 15 2011, 10:59pm


Views: 6721
Overall

I am quite satisfied. Sure, there are some things I would have liked different, but right now I only genuinely dislike one of them (Kili). As much as I harp on Nori's hair, I really do like his design for the most part. The hair is just a stubborn nitpick. And while I probably won't ever fall in love with it, I'm hoping it looks better in the context of the film. I think the photoshop job can be blamed for the hair's unnaturally perfect shape (seriously, no stray hairs or anything).

Kili's appearance just put major pressure on Turner's performance and how the character was written. Because if he ends up being nothing more than comic relief and eye candy, then my face and palm are going to get well acquainted with one another by the end.


(This post was edited by duats on Jul 15 2011, 11:03pm)


Macfeast
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 11:01pm


Views: 6679
My list is very similar

1. Gloin
2. Balin
3. Dwalin
4. Oin
5. Dori
6. Bifur
7. Bombur
8. Bofur
9. Ori
10. Nori
11. Fili
12. Kili

That said, from 1 to 10, it is a really close list, it is really only Fili and Kili that I dislike (and Kili moreso than Fili). In my mind, they could have made those two distinguishable (which I'm fully in favour of) and handsome, while still maintaining the expected dwarven look; As it stands, I think they nailed two out of the three aspects they (probably) wanted to display with Fili and Kil; Distinguishable and handsome, but not dwarf-like enough.


(This post was edited by Macfeast on Jul 15 2011, 11:02pm)


The Grey Wanderer
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 11:05pm


Views: 6630
Perhaps you should ask "what has it got in its pocketses?"//

 


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 11:05pm


Views: 6670
As of now, my favorites in order..

1. Balin
2. Gloin
3. Bombur

The others I have to check who is who..Crazy Love the one in the burgundy coat

7.Bofur
8. Nori (I don't really mind the hairstyle)
9. Dwalin (looks too much like something out of the road warrior)
10. Fili (But really, he's okay)
11. The one with the metal in his head (Bifur?) I don't like that touch..
12. Kili ( I don't hate. But I don't like, either. I would definitely not have gone in this direction, but it is what it is, I guess.)

Please, please put some gray in Thorin's hair. Just to please Patty Cool

Permanent address: Into the West





(This post was edited by Patty on Jul 15 2011, 11:07pm)


redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 11:15pm


Views: 6649
My favorite/least favorite

Dwalin and Bofur are definitely my favorites. Kili is my least favorite but i'm starting to get used to him and I'm less worried about him now that the others have been revealed. As someone pointed out, his performance is really gonna have to sell it. And if AT makes us fall in love with his character then I don't think I will have any complaints.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 11:17pm


Views: 6716
Looking at the high res photos

It does not look that Thorin will have any grey hair. I think it is increasingly likely that Thorin and Kili will be very similar - tall and slender, with long dark hair. I hope that this works within the context of the whole film. As a set of isolated publicity shots, it appears a 'brave' move on the part of PJ.

Perhaps there is a Middle-earth equivalent of Grecian 2000 which would account for the unnaturally dark hair on a dwarf of mature (some would say over-mature) years Cool


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jul 15 2011, 11:18pm


Views: 6618
that's not an extra finger...

... that's the pommel of his sword, i think.


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Jul 15 2011, 11:22pm


Views: 6633
Mine's the general purist list...

1) Gloin
2) Oin
3) Balin
4) Dori
5) Dwalin
6) Bifur
7) Ori
8) Bofur
9) Nori
10) Bombur
11) Fili
12) Kili

Nori would be higher if he didn't have a star for a head... All the costumes are incredible despite the lack of colour. Love Nori's belt


esheming
Bree

Jul 15 2011, 11:26pm


Views: 6347
You are right..!

Ori wouldn't have carried that book during the quest in The Hobbit ~ I was imagining these pictures as sort of being representations of each character rather than being snapshots from the film per se, and that they might have given Ori the book to hold simply as a teaser ~ but you could be right and maybe he will carry a diary along with him in The Hobbit to establish him as the record keeper who eventually dies in Moria holding a book. That would be a nice detail. As far as the possibility of an epilogue or brigde, obviously they are having Frodo in the movie, as well as Drogo and more ~ and there is a little bit of an epilogue in the book ~ I wonder if they'll 'add' to the book's epilogue: Frodo coming to live with Bilbo, and maybe Frodo would be with Bilbo when Balin and Gandalf come to visit ~ maybe they'd turn that into a "We were on the way to Moria and thought we'd stop by..." visit. Maybe even Oin, Ori, et al might be with them in the film...interesting. I wonder if showing Moria would seem like 'just too much' though!


Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 11:26pm


Views: 6407
Ha ha! I actually think that's why Kili was shown like this...

because all along it was planned to have Thorin be slender and dark and younger looking than his years. Kili was just to get us on board with the fact that Grecian formula or its equivalent exists in Middle-earth. I wonder if it's made with some extract of Mithral, and that's why the dwarves value it so highly.Sly Or Miruvor, and that's why the elves stay so young looking. Yeah, and the dwarves are mad at the elves cause they won't share, except Thorin and Kili got hold of it somehow, and...

okay. Time to STOP.WinkEvil

Permanent address: Into the West





Patty
Immortal


Jul 15 2011, 11:27pm


Views: 6423
Yeah, the colors aren't so bad on the ones that...

have been lightened. Still, some green and true blue added here or there would have been grand.

Permanent address: Into the West





Macfeast
Rohan

Jul 15 2011, 11:34pm


Views: 6342
I mentioned this is another topic, as well.

Getting to know the dwarves in the Hobbit, and then see three of them go off to Moria during an epilogue, could be potentially heartbreaking.

"No, don't go to Moria, haven't you seen the Trilogy?"


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 15 2011, 11:40pm


Views: 6373
Nah, they've perfected face clips

Bifur's axe in his head is not the result of a mining accident, but a botched face lift. The royal house has the wherewithal to get proper metal clips made and applied to give that youthful, wrinkleless appearance. Dwarves are skilled metal workers, as we all know. Wink


dwarf_girl
The Shire

Jul 15 2011, 11:48pm


Views: 6287
Great family picture

I like the frame. Lets wait for Thorin. I think he must be in the center. Maybe between Oin and Fili,


dwarf_girl
The Shire

Jul 16 2011, 12:04am


Views: 6316
Thorin will be all in black, like the old Turin Turambar

At least, so it can be seen from the image


RosieLass
Valinor


Jul 16 2011, 12:07am


Views: 6310
Here's mine

1. Oin
2. Dori
3. Gloin
4. Kili
5. Bombur
6. Bofur
7. Fili
8. Balin
9. Dwalin
10. Ori
11. Nori
12. Bifur



It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 16 2011, 12:19am


Views: 6298
Moria

A quick view of Moria at the height of its splendor would be a nice touch to show during the epilogue/background scenes in order to contrast with the gloomy abandoned version of Moria presented in FOTR; however, the film might only show Erebor during its heyday.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 16 2011, 12:23am


Views: 6271
Wow, that would be neat...

I doubt it will happen, and it may be too much taking away from Bilbo as the center of the story, but 'd love to see a glimpse of it. This will be our only chance, I imagine. But then, I want to see all of Middle-earth that I can--I'm just afraid of it derailing the main story.

Permanent address: Into the West





Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 16 2011, 12:27am


Views: 6256
And mine...

1. Dwalin - tallying up all the things I like about him - the beard, the hammer, the knuckle-duster gauntlets, the short sleeves and the character description - he's a clear winner

2. Fili - wasn't sure about him at first, but he is the dwarf who has grown on me the most. I love the beard, hair, prosthetics and the cheeky grin!

3. Bifur - as with, Fili, I love his cheeky grin, as well as the overall look of his costume (especially that hat!)

4. Gloin - was initially up the top, due to his traditional dwarvishness, but lost marks because he was too traditional and gets lost amidst his eclectic companions

5. Dori - the perfect mix of traditional and reimagined dwarf, love the braided beard and the sword

6. Balin - I really like him, but I was expecting something a little more Santa Claus than Santa's Helper. Love the costume though, and look of what appears to be a sword

7. Ori - really interesting-looking, PJ and the gang have really captured the youthfulness alluded to in the description. Love the scarf-hood, tassles and innocent expression

8. Oin - as with his bro, wins points for dwarven traditionalism, loses them for being nothing new. Love the weapon though

9. Bombur - I think he's great; fantastic facial hair, love the costuming and vacant expression. Love him, but he's not quite up there with the best of them

10. Bifur - interesting look, very intrigued about the axe-head embedded in his skull. Liking the wild look, but he comes across as a little too odd

11. Nori - I'm not as fussed about the starfish hair as I was initially, and I think his overall look is great. It's just that I think his prosthetics look a little overbearing

12. Kili - I don't dislike him as much as I did originally, but there is a consistancy throughout the other 11 (as diverse a bunch as they are) that he doesn't quite fit into


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 16 2011, 12:38am


Views: 6249
Elrond will be hiding his fine china and delicate heirlooms

when this crew arrives in Rivendell. Can you imagine the scene? The elves offer the dwarves their finest wine, but the dwarves look at their goblets disdainfully and clamour for beer instead?

Even the shards of Narsil may not be safe from their grubby hands.

However, at Beorn's house they will be on their "bestest" behavior....


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jul 16 2011, 12:41am


Views: 6262
Here are mine:

1. Gloin
2. Bifur (sorry, I like the metal thing in his head, and his completely dopey facial expression) Tongue
3. Dori
4, Oin
5. Balin
6. Dwalin
7. Bofur
8. Bombur
9. Nori
10. Kili
11. Fili
12. Ori

I have to say, Kili and Fili's costumes are great...

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on Jul 16 2011, 12:41am)


Zizix
Rivendell


Jul 16 2011, 12:48am


Views: 6218
I would love a view of Moria at the height of its splendour

But that would have to be the Moria of ages past... I doubt Balin's recolonized Moria was more than a fraction of that.


Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien


Jul 16 2011, 12:54am


Views: 6273
Here are mine:

1) Fili
2) Oin
3) Ori
4) Kili
5) Dwalin
6) Gloin
7) Balin
8) Dori
9) Nori
10) Bofur
11) Bifur
12) Bombur

All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...


Zizix
Rivendell


Jul 16 2011, 1:04am


Views: 6216
Oh and my list:

Oin - all dwarf, love his beard, and love the look on his face
Gloin - loses a point for looking a bit more regular than Oin
Balin - great looking but could have used something to really make him look interesting
Dwalin - all the dwarven components are there except the proportions I suppose
Dori - nice, like him better since I realized his beard is longer and a bit more special than it first appears
Bofur - nicely dwarfy but nothing exceptional
Bifur - might rise if his hair looks more real and he doesn't look as demented in the movies
Ori - looks more like a Snow White Disney dwarf to me than a Middle-Earth dwarf
Nori - good except the hair
Fili - not the most dwarfy, beard's too short but at least he's got one
Bombur - don't like his pants and bald chin. Altogether looks strange.
Kili - no dwarf


painjoiker
Grey Havens

Jul 16 2011, 1:08am


Views: 6180
It's hard to make a list...

Dwalin and Bofur is my favorites
Fili and Kili is my least favorite...
I can't rank the rest :/


Marillë by the Sea
Rivendell


Jul 16 2011, 1:09am


Views: 6209
Me too! Me too!

1. Balin - He's your kindly ol' grandfather just as Gandalf the Grey is your other grumpy one Tongue He's just as I pictured! I'm going to bawl my eyes out when I rewatch FOTR after these movies...
2. Dwalin - I love how he looks like the dwarves in Donato Giancola's painting
3. Bofur - Kili may be the hearthrob, but James Nesbitt's dimpled smile melts me every time! Laugh
4. Gloin - What a dwarf should look like
5. Oin - What a white-haired dwarf should look like lol
6. Ori - I don't understand why Ori is on everyone's bottom of the list... who can resist his cuteness?!
7. Bombur - Don't like his outfit though, there's nothing dwarvish about it
8. Dori- Ehh, nothing bad to say about him
9. Fili - His blond hair stood out jarringly at first, but now that I'm used to it, he looks pretty normal (as far as young dwarves go)
10. Nori - I'm in the general consensus that the starfish is not as bizarre now that I've been gawking at it for hours, but still...it's weird. His outfit is lovely though.
11. Bifur - Like Nori, everything else is cool about him but his HAIR. At first, I thought it was Cruella de Vil reborn or something. Crazy Not cool!
12. Kili - Is it insulting that AT looks more attractive as a man-dwarf-elf hybrid than in real life? And his hair is shinier than mine! Frown


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 16 2011, 1:36am


Views: 6150
Aww, you're not that old Kangi...60 is the new 40 these days! //

 

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 16 2011, 1:45am


Views: 6180
My list

1. Balin - I love the Balin of the books, and I love the kindly and vaguely oriental look PJ has given him.
2. Bifur - Apart from the Halloween-esque piece of metal stuck in his head (which I bet is only there for the photo shoot) he looks like a dwarf, only far more interesting than I would have ever imagined. He seems to be a cross between a savage, dark age Briton and a particularly demented Pict. More than the others, something about him is rooted in history - including the outlandish hair. There must have been dwarves like him in Middle Earth!
3. Dwalin: Love the forked beard, and prefer these proportions to the awkward ones of Gimli et al. This is how you do "dwarf" without too much fat suit and prosthetics.
4. Oin: Of the "Gimli and Gloin" family, but far less cartoonish. Proud, dignified, and fierce.
5. Ori: Very dwarvish, but thankfully, not stereotypically blustery.
6. Dori: Another very dwarf-y look without resorting to to much cliche or a tired re-hashing of Gimli.
7. Fili: Looks like a proper young dwarf. Glad to see the minimal prosthetics.
8. Bofur: I'm really liking the Mongolian-inspired theme. Lots of coal in Mongolia!
9. Bombur: A hilarious look, if a bit of an impractical physique for such a journey.
10. Gloin: Nice to see some continuity, but a little too Yosemite Sam, IMO.
11. Nori: He's one where I want to accept the hair (history is full of ridiculous hairdos), but just can't.
12. Kili: He makes me want to buy some new and more expensive shampoo. Not a good sign.


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 16 2011, 2:30am


Views: 6176
It's important to remember

People come here because they enjoy Tolkien. Some members here have a more academic way of looking at his works or at the films. They want you to state your belief and back it up with evidence. And they also, when sharing their beliefs, like to back it up with their own evidence. I think you're in that camp.

Not everyone comes on these boards because they want to get into discussing their opinions in an academic way. There are people from all walks of life here, with varied educational backgrounds. So not everyone wants their opinions challenged because they don't necessarily enjoy having to defend their opinions. Yes, that can be frustrating to those who are of the more academic type, but we all have to learn who is in the former camp, who is in the latter camp, and whether it's worth it to ask for evidence or not.

I'm somewhat in the middle. I have a post-grad degree, and after having written so many academic papers, I don't generally have a problem with backing up my opinions. But I do come here to have fun, so I don't want to feel like TORn is an extension of school. So my posts can be a little more casual at times. Sometimes I don't explain myself as well as I would in an academic paper because I don't feel the need.

Given, clarity is always a plus, but with the wide range of members here, including many who don't necessarily speak English fluently, sometimes it's important to not push people too hard unless it's clear they like being challenged in that way.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 16 2011, 2:57am


Views: 6154
Best. Post. All. Year.

"Not everyone comes on these boards because they want to get into discussing their opinions in an academic way."


Really, taekotemple, this is kind of why I got out of the Reading Room.


You have expressed some of the differences in viewpoint of the diverse TORnfolk in such a well-worded way.


Permanent address: Into the West





taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 16 2011, 3:04am


Views: 6114
I'm glad it made sense

I'm behind a few hours of sleep for the past couple of days, so I wasn't sure if what I posted made sense or not. I'm glad it did!

Ultimately, I think there should be room for everyone, and it seems like generally there is.

By the way, I avoid the Reading Room too. I like going there every once in a while to see what's going on, but I rarely participate.


weaver
Half-elven

Jul 16 2011, 3:12am


Views: 6180
I used to really fear the Reading Room...

I think it was because of that sense that you had to be prepared to defend yourself at all times, and I always felt like I just had a butter knife and everyone else had a full set of cutlery, so to speak.

It was not until I screwed up my courage and led a chapter discussion that I really found a way to enjoy that environment. I found it far more enjoyable to try to come up with questions to challenge folks and get some discussion going, than to reply to posts, and it was easier for me to couch my views in a question that I asked for feedback on, rather than putting it forward as some kind of assertion to defend.

Since then, I always try to lead at least one chapter discussion there, when I can -- it's a good exercise, and a rewarding one, to go through Tolkien's text in detail, and look at how it's actually constructed, slowing down to enjoy the scenery more instead of driving through it so much, since I'm a pretty fast reader. I don't have the time or temperament to be a regular there, but I have felt that when I've contributed I've been accepted, and that kind of conversation, and the folks who enjoy it, is a lot of fun once you get a comfort level with it.

Just a few thoughts you sparked -- thanks for posting this so I could chime in!

Weaver




weaver
Half-elven

Jul 16 2011, 3:25am


Views: 6092
and like Patty, I'm glad you spoke up!

I love the different styles here, even if we haven't always figured out what to make of them yet...on the older boards, a think a dominant style has developed, and a following that embraces it. The Hobbit Board is still sort of evolving, so it will be interesting to see how it goes. I admit I've stayed away from here a bit as I'm not big on the contentious and speculative stage of discussion, but seeing folks work through their differences here has been encouraging to see and made me more interested in contributing.

It's been interesting seeing all the different dwarf images and the way Jackson and company have packaged them to reveal very distinct personalities. In the books, other than the color of their hoods, it was hard to distinguish some of them, except for Thorin and Bombur, who stood out easily, and for the glimpses we get of the rest through Bilbo's relationship with them. I like that in the images we've seen so far, the dwarves are defined individuals, in appearance at least, and hopefully there will be enough time on screen for them to be developed at least in part as personalities as well.

Heck, if Jackson can give us 13 very different dwarves that can work together to achieve their quest, I think we can figure out how to discuss this film in a way that values and respects what each of us bring to this board, and without falling into the trap of feeling that any single way of looking at things is better than any other.

Weaver




Patty
Immortal


Jul 16 2011, 3:29am


Views: 7820
I don't think I've ever "feared" it...

my history with the RR goes back to before our wonderful new boards--back into the mists of time when we were posting our discussions on the main board--picture it!Laugh

But I did get to where I didn't like the "scholarly" nature of how it got to be, and what I've always said about TORn, be it the RR or any discussions that turn nasty--and sometimes they do--is that I come on here for fun, and when it stops being that or becomes work then I leave whatever the discussion is. Although I believe I can make my thoughts reasonably well understood (except during the many times when I am sleep deprived) I don't like working at it--backing up my opinions with details, for example. Part of that is because my concentration and memory is not what I'd like it to be. So, yeah, I don't go into deep levels of discussion, and often don't read long posts for that very reason. I'm very happy though, that we accommodate all levels of enthusiasm here. I love your cutlery analogy, weaver. Heart

Permanent address: Into the West





(This post was edited by Patty on Jul 16 2011, 3:37am)


Buchanicus
Lorien


Jul 16 2011, 3:33am


Views: 7913
Hi-res?

Is there a Hi-res version of this picture yet? And...a Hi-res pic of Bombur, Bofur, and Bifur?

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 16 2011, 3:45am


Views: 7797
You took the words right out of my mouth weaver...

now, put those back!Sly

Permanent address: Into the West





weaver
Half-elven

Jul 16 2011, 3:48am


Views: 7778
I hear you...

..that's why I only lead one chapter discussion at a time. It is a lot of work to do a proper job of it there!

But I did want to take the opportunity, as a non-RR regular, to plug that board, as part of my response to you. It can be a great experience, but I do think people shy away from it! (Thanks for letting me shanghai your reply to do that..I figured you would not mind too much! Smile.)

The LOTR movie board has always been a lot more enjoyable to me --I guess it suits my personality and my "inclusive" kind of brain better...while I can analyze a glass of water, it's more from the perspective of how each part contributes to the whole, rather than looking at things in a very exacting kind of way.

Weaver




ThunderKing
The Shire


Jul 16 2011, 4:00am


Views: 7881
Dwalin

I think he looks awesome , but for some reason he is reminding me of Harry Shearer in a Mighty Wind... LOL

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_JhLuVu-Cho&feature=related


(This post was edited by ThunderKing on Jul 16 2011, 4:01am)


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 16 2011, 4:05am


Views: 7782
Ha! That's a great observation!

Hmm... singing dwarves...


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 16 2011, 4:11am


Views: 7849
Kangi, you've got it. No blue beard. Rather dissapointing in light of all the other oddities

I suspected that Jackson might veer away from Dwalin having a blue beard as described in the book. I had hoped he might go for that grey tinted blue so commonly seen in various old ladies. When I saw the photos of some of the other dwarves though, and how outlandish some of them were, I thought that perhaps a little blue tinting to Dwalin's beard was pretty much assured. Alas, not so, but in the face of some of those bat guano crazy designs for Nori, Bifur and Bofur, I am slightly puzzled. I have to say, sometimes Peter's departures from the text end up feeling like more of an unpleasant salt rub, because he goes and adds other things to the films that seem to fly directly in the face of the logic for the departures.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 16 2011, 4:25am


Views: 7744
For some reason, I keep imagining Dwalin with a huge turkey leg in that scene.

But then, were there turkeys in Middle-earth? Wink


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 16 2011, 4:29am


Views: 7763
I'm with you on that one.

But arguing can be a given anywhere you have a wide range of personalities and opinions. Hopefully, it sticks to the good kind of arguing where information is shared and new things are learned. Smile


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 16 2011, 4:56am


Views: 7757
The 13 Dwarves and the Fountain of Youth!

WinkLaugh


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jul 16 2011, 5:17am


Views: 7717
Won't the weapons get confiscated by the Elves????

If we assume these are the weapons they start the journey with, then might they be confiscated by the Elves during their internment? Or even before that, when they are chased up the trees and then carried away by the Eagles, how does one get a war hammer and spears up a tree? I don't see those weapons fitting into a wine barrel.

But then, if we assume these weapons come later in the game, such as from Lake Town, then one must ask if these looks are after all their adventures so far.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 16 2011, 6:18am


Views: 7741
Very cool!

I want this when it's done! Great job!


bookgirl13
Lorien


Jul 16 2011, 7:07am


Views: 7697
Their aunt is Ayesha from Rider Haggard's She

Hey for the pillar of fire which grants immortality.


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Jul 16 2011, 7:20am


Views: 7715
Yeah, it evolved...

but I didn't evolve with it. Best leave it at that, though I think I would describe the RR action as delicate fencing with the occasional fancy footwork, and save the cutlery for the Hobbit board. ;)

**********************************


NARF
NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011

(This post was edited by Eowyn of Penns Woods on Jul 16 2011, 7:21am)


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 16 2011, 8:11am


Views: 7716
My list (not very pure, but I do my best...)

Based just on the photos (I might change my mind completely once we see more of them, but

1. Gloin
2. Oin
3. Fili
4. Dori
5. Ori
6. Kili
7. Balin
8. Bofur
9. Nori
10. Dwalin
11. Bifur
12. Bombur

I think all the costumes are excellent except Bombur's, which to my eye just doesn't belong (also I see my Mum's old coat, circa 1960-something, every time I look at him; that's just unfortunate. The 'showing off his double chin' idea bothers me a bit as well and I'd have preferred it if he had a proper beard). But there's some gorgeous leather work and detailing on the others and I mark Kili up for having what appears to be a blue hood.

And isn't it interesting that we've all chosen something different? That suggests to me that they've done the job pretty well.


TheWhiteRider
Bree


Jul 16 2011, 8:45am


Views: 7824
Found this on the internet

Tongue http://i56.tinypic.com/xnrwp3.gif


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 16 2011, 9:39am


Views: 7664
I LOL'd. //

Evil

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Snulle
Bree

Jul 16 2011, 9:52am


Views: 7660
Haha!

Hilarious! Cool


Maiarmike
Grey Havens


Jul 16 2011, 10:10am


Views: 7636
That's always the indicator of good work.

When different people choose different favorites from the same artist.

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien

"Smokey, this is not 'Nam. This is bowling. There are rules."
--Walter Sobchak


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 16 2011, 11:52am


Views: 7588
A glimpse at my constantly shifting list

1) Balin – a perfect, curly, colourful, old, Oriental Santa Claus
2) Fili – a great interpretation of what a young Dwarf could look like, stays close to the book's description of the character and exudes personality (the grin won me over)
3) Oin – a pure, unadulterated Dwarf (we needed a few of these to ground the more outlandish ones)
4) Gloin – another pure Dwarf, but loses points for essentially being exactly the same as Gimli
5) Bifur – a slightly wild, demented-looking barbarian; pushes the boundaries of Dwarven preconceptions but remains identifiable as a member of the race
6) Dwalin – a towering biker/bouncer Dwarf you don't want to cross; has a unique look but stays Dwarven
7) Dori – a bit more aristocratic than the others; his beard is a bit small, but he's got an interesting sort of attitude about him
8) Bofur – a sturdy, reliable, everyday blue-collar Dwarf; not an interesting individual but I'm glad he's a member of the group
9) Bombur – I like the Astérix resemblance, but dislike the Harry Knowles/Fat Scotsman resemblance
10) Nori – the weirdo of the group; good design, but I'm still not sure about the star hair
11) Ori – I like the 'Dwarven nerd' idea; he looks a bit weak and hasn't got much of a beard, but overall I approve
...
...
...
12) Kili – not a Dwarf by any stretch of the imagination.


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 16 2011, 12:55pm


Views: 7564
I hope the dwarf/elf humor...

Is not so crass and unfunny as the scene you describe. Fingers crossed!


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 16 2011, 1:39pm


Views: 7579
Well, I don't know...

... the shards of Narsil apart, it doesn't sound that far removed from 'Some called for ale, and some for porter, and one for coffee, and all of them for cakes'. Even in the book the dwarves were demanding house guests who took a lot of feeding. I wouldn't be surprised to see something of that in the film, with some justification. Whether it's funny or not depends on how its done and on individual taste (ours, not the dwarves'!).


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 16 2011, 1:54pm


Views: 7559
To be honest the Reading Room doesn't do much for me either

The style of debate there is a bit too dense for my tastes. Having to go to the books each time i post is not actually something that rings my bell, but i'm very happy to if it is required to support my points. Perhaps being a purist i believe that my opinions (where they coincide with my purism) have more validity than the opinions of those who's don't based on the fact they reflect a vision closer to what Tolkien stated/implied. I think that's a fairly understandable attitude given that the films that we are so fervently discussing are adaptations of Tolkien's works and so are held up against benchmark of what he wrote. Whatever the end result has to be compared in terms of how closely it follows Tolkien's own intents. Therefore you could make a film which wins 11 oscars including all the major ones LotR missed out on (the best lead/supporting actor/actress categories) and yet that doesn't mean it's necessarily a great adaptation of Tolkien- a great adaptation is one that captures the story irrespective of the original's literary standing (something that the Reading Room forum is more apt to analyse).

Personally i believe, and i don't think anyone here would deny, that the original is pretty damn good (though i've got to admit not perfect- someone else mentioned that it's a little bit light in terms of the amount of material and skim reading it (though that may be the reason why) i got that feel as well- i do wish there was more of it to develop the characters) but i will always defend the story and the characters at the heart. More of the same would be great, but more of something rather different will be something i'd resist, and i will without shame demand that people who express an opinion i believe is not based on the source either find and present evidence or else make strenuously clear that their opinion is personal and thus in a sense 'second rate'....

.....Yeah, i think i can see why i've had trouble making friends hereLaugh. I don't think you could claim my thinking is illogical even if it is anti-social thoughAngelic.

Dr Death


Annael
Immortal


Jul 16 2011, 2:11pm


Views: 7499
there is absolutely nothing wrong with saying how you feel about things

Where most people go wrong is 1. insisting that others should feel the same way and 2. trying to use some kind of "logic" or "facts" or trying to ally themselves to a group ("real fans") or an authority ("Tolkien is rolling in his grave") to make their personal preference seem more legitimate. That backfires because it gives people something to argue over, and it also paradoxically makes the person sound like they aren't so sure of their own opinion. No one can argue if you just say "well, I don't like it! I don't look at that picture and think 'dwarf.' I think PJ has gone in the wrong direction here." You've just said what YOU think and you are the only authority on that. People can say "well, I do like it," but simply expressing a different opinion is not arguing.

(Although a friend did have a boyfriend in college who, when she said "well, that's just my opinion" shouted at her "NO IT ISN'T!" That relationship didn't last long.)

The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.

- James Hillman, Healing Fiction

* * * * * * * * * *

NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Bladerunner
Gondor


Jul 16 2011, 2:16pm


Views: 7454
I agree...

and not expecting that kind of scenario either. I meant it in a facetious/tongue in cheek way. (btw - that kind of humor would be more suited for one of those "Epic Movie/Scary Movie" parody type films).


adu
Bree

Jul 16 2011, 2:47pm


Views: 6502
well...

I may be in the minority here, but Dwalin not having a blue beard is no big deal for me, him being bald and his overall look makes him stand apart as it is; that's good enough in my opinion. Also, if Kili has a slightly longer bead in the movie, this is a perfect group!


taekotemple
Grey Havens


Jul 16 2011, 3:24pm


Views: 6359
I don't think you're wrong

And luckily, there are many people here who do like to back up their opinions with research and facts, so at least some people on these boards can meet you at that kind of intellectual level on the boards. Opinions aren't always based on facts, though, so not everyone is going to be able to site examples as easily.

As for the social stuff, I think it's a challenge for many people anyway. And aside from some social gaffes (which I'm sure all of us have done on the internet to some extent), I do find some of your observations very interesting and do find a fair amount in what you say that I agree with. Believe me, you could be doing a lot worse!


GwyraWhitfoot
Registered User

Jul 16 2011, 5:25pm


Views: 6312
I second that//

 


dormouse
Half-elven

Jul 16 2011, 5:49pm


Views: 6279
I love the Reading Room

.... but don't often let myself post there because I get too carried away looking up references and then wonder where the day went. When you work from home you have to be careful about these things!

You have some interesting ideas DrDeath and I've agreed with some of them, though that may surprise you. Wink And they're very distinctive - people often say that they're waiting to hear your reaction - on the photos for example. The problem, I think, lies here:


Quote
Perhaps being a purist i believe that my opinions (where they coincide with my purism) have more validity than the opinions of those who's don't based on the fact they reflect a vision closer to what Tolkien stated/implied.


There's a distinction between what Tolkien stated and what he implied. What he stated is there in print for all of us to see, and of course, if your view on any given question is a statement of Tolkien's actual words then it will be more valid than one that isn't (providing the point at issue is about faithfulness to the text). But 'what he implied' is a judgement, not a fact, and someone else might disagree with you about it, based on equal knowledge of Tolkien's life and writings. Whose view is more valid then? And beyond that there are all the questions Tolkien left open, or changed his mind about in the construction of a mythology that continued for a large part of his life, or the inconsistencies. An obvious example in this forum is the question of whether we view The Hobbit as a stand-alone work or consider it in relation to Lord of the Rings. The views on one side of that debate are quite different from the views on the other but is either side more valid? I'd say not. Obviously I stand by my own views but I think other people's are equally valid and I'm not just being pious here - I really have found that my understanding of the books grows through listening to other people's views and I've known the books over 40 years.

And of course;

Quote
i will without shame demand that people who express an opinion i believe is not based on the source either find and present evidence or else make strenuously clear that their opinion is personal and thus in a sense 'second rate'....


You can ask, but do you really think you have the authority, or the right to 'demand' anything of anyone else here? Really? All our opinions are personal, yours included, and I suspect you know full well that labelling other peoples' views as 'second-rate' is... how shall I put this.... a whole lot more like a red rag than an olive branch! Tongue





redgiraffe
Rohan

Jul 16 2011, 6:12pm


Views: 6283
Has anyone found a hi-res version yet?

I still haven't seen one.

-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle


Bullroarer
Bree


Jul 16 2011, 6:43pm


Views: 6322
NOW THATS WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT! But there may be trouble afoot...

These two look so awsome, Balin look exactly how I imagined him and a can already tell that dwalin is going to be the movie badass, I can't wait till i can see him swinging that hammer into a goblins face.

However, the may be trouble afoot and it concerns Thorin, does anyone remember that that first look photo of Bilbo in BagEnd reading the terms and conditions while the dwarves look onward in the background? Anyway, in that photo there is a dwarf right in the middle in the archway with black hair and chainmail and ever since these pictures of the dwarves have been coming out, not once has this dwarf turned up and I'm beggining to worry that it might be Thorin, true the dwarf looks pretty cool and when I first saw it i assumed it was Dwalin but I can't imagine them making Thorin YOUNG...

All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us- Gandalf to Frodo


Patty
Immortal


Jul 16 2011, 7:07pm


Views: 6244
Ohhhhhhhh can I get an "amen" up in here!!!

Balrog's wings, anyone?

Permanent address: Into the West





ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 16 2011, 7:35pm


Views: 6234
Hmm, had a think about this.......


In Reply To
I can't imagine them making Thorin YOUNG....


....and I can, LOL!


ShireHorse
Rohan

Jul 16 2011, 8:03pm


Views: 6185
I know you're not selling out, Dr D, but

I'm sure that some of us appreciate your attempts to meet those at the opposite end of the spectrum on middle ground. And I hope that you will eventually feel at least a little satisfied with the Thorin that we get.

As a matter of interest, you have mentioned some of the discrepencies in Tolkien's text as regards his depiction of Thorin. For instance, the dwarf's aging and weak eyesight appears to be contradicted by his swift response when he shoots at the deer in the forest. My explanation for this is the one I have given before: that Tolkien hadn't quite thought through the physical nature of his Thorin even if the character is multi-layered. This is why I can easily accept Richard Armitage in the role. I wondered how you reconciled such discrepancies.

And without being rude about Ian McShane, I might have been a bit unhappy if he had been chosen if I had placed too much emphasis on physical looks because he has a very Mediterranean appearance and would not have been my ideal for a "northern European" dwarf.


Patty
Immortal


Jul 16 2011, 8:18pm


Views: 6169
A botched face lift!

LOL!

And of course, Kili will be teased throughout the movie by the other dwarves because of his attachment to one "Jenny". We don't find out till Kili's final scene that Jenny is not his left-behind sweetheart, but indeed, it's Jenny Craig.

Permanent address: Into the West





Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jul 16 2011, 8:53pm


Views: 6287
Thirded!

I should add that "impersonal measures of public opinion" are welcome at TORn and no one's opinion here is second rate, be it based on fact or feeling. The one exception would be anyone that implies that someone else's opinion is second rate. That's the biggest cop out of all, isn't what TORn is about and has no place here.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar

(This post was edited by Altaira on Jul 16 2011, 10:48pm)


Patty
Immortal


Jul 16 2011, 9:03pm


Views: 6148
The night of the "long knives"? /

 

Permanent address: Into the West





Captain_Faramir92
The Shire


Jul 16 2011, 9:13pm


Views: 6171
Who says he'll be young?

All the dwarves in that photo look a bit different than they do n they're official pictures.

I tend to like characters nobody else cares about:
Faramir (LOTR), Mr. Fantastic (Fantastic 4), Zazu (The Lion King)


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 16 2011, 10:15pm


Views: 6117
To be honest i'm not entirely sure myself

So therefore i would likely attribute it to the context- Tolkien makes clear that Thorin's shot with the bow is reflexive- he talks about how they were kind of on edge at that time and how when Thorin made the shot he did not actually know what he was aiming at- it was kind of reflexive adrenaline and considering how close the deer was, it isn't some miraculous feat of archery through the depths of Mirkwood at 500 paces.

In terms of Richard Armitage, i have every faith he will be adequate- i'm not calling him a 'wildcard' (and in not doing so i suppose there's a slightly passive-aggressive insult of the like this forum so adores in me believing him 'nothing special'Evil) and like i mentioned in my earlier post, there is an advantage in casting him over the likes of Brian Cox in that i can be confident that in accordance with cinematic ageism his character will be treated with sympathy. Richard Armitage is almost the definition of the 'middle-earth action hero' and so if that's the direction they're pushing Thorin in then he will play the part very well, and i'm unlikely to come out of the cinema spitting feathers, but for me it seems like they're making the character more generic than he could be.

As for Ian McShane, well he does have a rather olive complexion but then so does James Nesbitt- it's nothing that make-up couldn't fix. Christopher Lee is far more Mediterranean than ever Ian McShane is, and Tom Conti who is half or some such Italian doesn't look particularly Mediterranean so looks can be deceptive. I think their builds, being rather stocky do give them more in the way of northern-european credibility being a body-type that would befit someone from colder climes. Personally i've kind of fallen in love with the notion of Ian McShane as Thorin so i suppose there is an element (only an element mind- i'm getting a bit narked at people overstating my points when i'm being candid) of bias, alongside my obvious fears of Armitage's apparent inadequacy. If i may wax lyrical for a moment, there's a nice combination of ferocity and charm that McShane possesses that i think is particularly apt to Thorin's character- he's someone who's so well mannered and warm and yet you'd really be terrified to see angry. For me, the perfect actor for a part is one that not only is the best for the job but also the person you couldn't see playing any other part in the story quite so well and Ian McShane captures that in my image of Thorin (which is why i will actually be just as mortified if he comes up as Dain). Brian Cox would have been a good Thorin, and Richard Armitage may be capable, but it's Ian McShane who's my definitive now, even if he wasn't actually cast (for whatever reason).

But i'll give Armitage his chance (i've not exactly got much choice), i think it's fair to say that the only way is up in terms of my opinion of his ThorinAngelic

We shall see.

Dr Death


Spencissimus
Lorien


Jul 16 2011, 11:12pm


Views: 6071
I have utmost confindence in RA...

...Thorin needs gravitas, which Armitage has plenty of. I'm not saying McShane doesn't have any, but if he were Thorin and PJ and Co. used the same hair, makeup and costume they're using for Armitage, I'd be watching the Hobbit and seeing 12 dwarves and Blackbeard from PoC4! When Armitage was first announced as Thorin, I knew straight off that they couldn't have picked a better man to play the role, as he is more than capable of acting out all of Thorin's traits that are referred to in the book. What's more, we know curtesy of an interview that Armitage is a huge fan of Tolkien, so I think that while he might not look like the picture of Thorin that everyone has in their head when reading the Hobbit, he will certainly play Thorin as he was meant to be played. I have no doubts whatsoever.


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jul 16 2011, 11:34pm


Views: 6109
It doesn't break my heart, but it is dissapointing, especially in light of how bizzare some of the looks are

Again, it is made more of a rub, for me, by the fact that, when you look at some of the design choices they made for many of the other dwarves, a little blue tinting wouldn't even be that outlandish. If they were going for all the dwarves being Gimli, Thorin, and Gloin clones I could better understand it, even if I didn't entirely approve. But to have Nori have a starfish styling, Bifur with a hunk of metal in his head while Bofur sports a hat from Whoville etc., but then change the colour of Dwalin's beard, one of the few hard and expliciet descriptions we get concerning the look of the Dwarves in the book, to keep it from being too outlandish. . . it just doesn't mesh up. It bothers me in the same way the trimming back of Gandalf's magic bothered me all the more because of how astounding and unfettered feats by Arwen and Saruman were in Fellowship.

In Reply To
I may be in the minority here, but Dwalin not having a blue beard is no big deal for me, him being bald and his overall look makes him stand apart as it is; that's good enough in my opinion. Also, if Kili has a slightly longer bead in the movie, this is a perfect group!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jul 17 2011, 12:52am


Views: 6004
for what it's worth...

1. bifur (love james nesbit-- his expression, his costume, his axe. he's gonna be great fun!)
2. bofur (this is just too perfect. love how he wears his pantaloons up high.)
3. nori (sure his hair's weird, but it's a great look otherwise. plus, it's jed f'ing brody.)
4. dwalin (totally badass-- and that hammer!)
5. bombur (looks like a wild animal.)
6. fili (looks a bit too human, but if they just changed his nose, he'd be awesome. great expression.)
7. dori
8. oin
9. gloin (dori, oin and gloin are just good, solid, basic gimli-like dwarves-- and i like.)
10. ori (great studious look, great hood.)
11. balin (not bad, just kinda boring. we'll see...)
12. kili (obviously. he'd make a great human character, but is a terrible dwarf. very disappointing.)

obviosly, p.j., fran, philippa and the entire team are great geniuses of casting (which was reinforced with a quick perusal of the entire cast on imdb just now), and these dwarves are a great example of that. even kili is more of a design problem-- i have no issue at all with the actor. but when it comes down to it, i just can't wait till december 2012!


Gandalf'sMother
Rohan

Jul 17 2011, 1:17am


Views: 6037
Sauget...

I think you got some of those names wrong.

The character you describe as Bifur is in fact Bofur, the character you describe as Bofur is in fact Bombur, and the character you describe as Bombur is in fact, Bifur.

Smile


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea

Jul 17 2011, 1:37am


Views: 6009
man...

...i made a key for myself, and i still totally screwed it up. there's just too many dwarves! sorry about that-- it should read...

1) bofur
2) bombur
5) bifur

don't know how i did that-- i've known since junior high that bombur was the fat one. oh well.

and thanks for the heads up.


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Jul 17 2011, 3:15am


Views: 5969
Extra crispy or barbequed? //

 

My LiveJournal
My Costuming Site
TORn's Costume Discussions Archive


Buchanicus
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 4:04am


Views: 5966
Well said.


In Reply To
Where most people go wrong is 1. insisting that others should feel the same way and 2. trying to use some kind of "logic" or "facts" or trying to ally themselves to a group ("real fans") or an authority ("Tolkien is rolling in his grave") to make their personal preference seem more legitimate. That backfires because it gives people something to argue over, and it also paradoxically makes the person sound like they aren't so sure of their own opinion. No one can argue if you just say "well, I don't like it! I don't look at that picture and think 'dwarf.' I think PJ has gone in the wrong direction here." You've just said what YOU think and you are the only authority on that. People can say "well, I do like it," but simply expressing a different opinion is not arguing.

(Although a friend did have a boyfriend in college who, when she said "well, that's just my opinion" shouted at her "NO IT ISN'T!" That relationship didn't last long.)


TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


Buchanicus
Lorien


Jul 17 2011, 4:05am


Views: 5978
Yep...still need to see the Hi-Res

For Balin and Dwalin and Bombur, Bofer and Bifur as well.

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


stormcrow20
Gondor


Jul 17 2011, 7:06am


Views: 5984
Hammer time!

Dwalin has a hammer! Yes! I was totally hoping he would. He looks great, and I have no complaints.

Balin is nice, but has a little bit of a gnome or "north pole" vibe to him.

Bring on Thorin!



A greenlight from the shadows shall spring!


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Jul 17 2011, 1:26pm


Views: 5924
Mortified?

I'll actually be quite pleased if McShane ends up making a cameo appearance as Dain, if only so that we'll have a good visual representation of McShane as a proper Tolkien Dwarf kitted out in Weta armour. At least then we could put up Dain posters, cross out the name 'Dain', write 'Thorin' on them, and gaze wistfully at them from time to time.


DrDeath153
Lorien

Jul 17 2011, 3:51pm


Views: 5863
It's not a big issue

Certainly compared to his human proportions. That said, i think a blue (or blue-rinsed beard) would be somewhat beneficial in making him look a little bit more like Balin's brother rather than his son. Balin looks so very old that it's hard to believe Dwalin is of the same generation. For me it's of secondary importance to getting the proportions right though, so i can take or leave the lack of blue.

Dr Death


Mythopoeia
Bree

Jul 18 2011, 5:09am


Views: 7117
I used your group compilation here

to make my own wallpaper once Thorin's photo was released. http://faeriecarousel.deviantart.com/#/d3zgo48

If you don't want me using your compilation let me know and I'll take it down immediately! I just preferred your group shot to the one TORn made a wallpaper out of, and thought it was really well done. I don't want to steal your work or anything like that, though. Smile