The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Titles have been announced



Welsh hero
Gondor


May 30 2011, 5:11pm


Views: 4520
The Titles have been announced

http://www.facebook.com/TheHobbitMovie

just announced on the facebook page

"THE HOBBIT: AN UNEXPECTED JOURNEY" AND "THE HOBBIT: THERE AND BACK AGAIN"

Twitter: @IrfonPennant

(This post was edited by Welsh hero on May 30 2011, 5:16pm)


Wraith Buster
Gondor


May 30 2011, 5:22pm


Views: 2606
Those are great titles

I see that the first time I posted this my iPod put an angry face on it.Crazy

Pedich Edhellen? Lau? Hria cuilë.

End of line.

(This post was edited by Wraith Buster on May 30 2011, 5:26pm)


Gimli'sBox
Gondor


May 30 2011, 5:24pm


Views: 2536
Cool titles! I'm lovin' it...//

 

Some who have read the book, or at any rate have reviewed it, have found it boring, absurd, or contemptible; and I have no cause to complain, since I have similar opinions of their works, or of the kinds of writing they evidently prefer.

I'm a user. I'll improvise. -Sam Flynn, TRON: Legacy


Estel78
Tol Eressea

May 30 2011, 5:31pm


Views: 2569
They mention Christopher Lee in the cast, so officially confirmed! :) //

 


Welsh hero
Gondor


May 30 2011, 5:32pm


Views: 2691
I just skimmed it. It also has release dates

Smile

Twitter: @IrfonPennant


Carne
Tol Eressea

May 30 2011, 5:32pm


Views: 2515
Good titles!

Better than just Part 1 and 2.


Junesong
Rivendell


May 30 2011, 5:41pm


Views: 2546
Just like the book

I'm glad the subtitles chosen by the studios reflected the book's own "There and Back Again".

I'm even more excited with every big and little step towards the December '12 release.

And it's nice to see Christopher Lee's name up there on that press release.

I'm just a little excited. Did I mention that I'm excited?

"Tim... Canterbury... Canterbury Tales... Chaucer... Shakespeare."


Welsh hero
Gondor


May 30 2011, 5:42pm


Views: 2485
I don't think you did mention you were excited

Wink

Twitter: @IrfonPennant


macfalk
Valinor


May 30 2011, 5:42pm


Views: 2566
My conclusions.

1. Persbrandt is not kicked out of the cast.

2. C.Lee, awesome! The most busiest 89-year-old alive?

3. Great titles.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


dormouse
Half-elven

May 30 2011, 5:44pm


Views: 2543
Yes - that's good news!

They also mention a Mike Mizrahi. Who's he - I don't remember that name being announced?


macfalk
Valinor


May 30 2011, 5:46pm


Views: 2529
Thror/Thrain //

 



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

May 30 2011, 5:49pm


Views: 2470
He was already mentioned in an article...


Quote
Yesterday Warner Bros. named Kiwi actors Jeffrey Thomas and Mike Mizrahi for the roles of dwarf kings Thror and Thrain.


Source: http://www.theonering.net/torwp/2011/03/20/42798-kiwi-actors-jeffrey-thomas-and-mike-mizrahi-cast-as-thror-and-thrain/


maut
Rivendell


May 30 2011, 5:50pm


Views: 2497
He is Thrain

and Thror is Jeffrey Thomas


Far over the misty mountains cold

To dungeons deep and caverns old

We must away ere break of day

To seek the pale enchanted gold.
__________________________________
...and the sound of the kettle on his hearth was ever after more musical than it had been even in the quiet days before the Unexpected Party

________________________________
Welcome back to Middle-Earth!!!


Estel78
Tol Eressea

May 30 2011, 5:51pm


Views: 2452
Still no Bard... //

 


maut
Rivendell


May 30 2011, 5:53pm


Views: 2446
Great!

Even though that's not real news, as we've heard of it about a month ago for the first time. But still - official announcement is great.

Far over the misty mountains cold

To dungeons deep and caverns old

We must away ere break of day

To seek the pale enchanted gold.
__________________________________
...and the sound of the kettle on his hearth was ever after more musical than it had been even in the quiet days before the Unexpected Party

________________________________
Welcome back to Middle-Earth!!!


macfalk
Valinor


May 30 2011, 6:01pm


Views: 2447
Don't worry, Itaril will step in for the absent Bard and kill Smaug with a spectacular 3-arrow-shot with her Elven bow. //

 



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Pipe Dream
Gondor


May 30 2011, 6:06pm


Views: 2415
Only 562 more days to go!

Guess it's going to be a while yet. Good news about Sir Christopher Lee. I hope he still will be in good health and feels up to doing it when the time comes.

"There is a long road yet," said Gandalf. "But it is the last road," said Bilbo.


Estel78
Tol Eressea

May 30 2011, 6:10pm


Views: 2403
Better Itaril than Legolas, i say. ;) //

 


Wraith Buster
Gondor


May 30 2011, 6:20pm


Views: 2428
Yeah

He has to be the most active old guy ever. World record?

Pedich Edhellen? Lau? Hria cuilë.

End of line.


Morok Cloudkeeper
Rohan


May 30 2011, 6:34pm


Views: 2378
Great!

Great to see that a good part of the LOTR cast is back again for another epic yourney! And the two film titles are also great.Cool

Power can be held in the smallest of things...



maut
Rivendell


May 30 2011, 6:48pm


Views: 2403
The oldest preforming actor

in the world is now 96. His name is Vladimir Zeldin. He's still playing at the theatre and cinema. Though he almost completely unknown outside Russia....
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vladimir_Zeldin


Quote
Vladimir Zeldin is in the Guinness Book of Records as the only actor in the world, performing at such an advanced age.

(http://english.ruvr.ru/2010/02/10/4338238.html)

Far over the misty mountains cold

To dungeons deep and caverns old

We must away ere break of day

To seek the pale enchanted gold.
__________________________________
...and the sound of the kettle on his hearth was ever after more musical than it had been even in the quiet days before the Unexpected Party

________________________________
Welcome back to Middle-Earth!!!

(This post was edited by maut on May 30 2011, 6:51pm)


Hamfast
Rohan


May 30 2011, 7:11pm


Views: 2313
Good job Pete

The best possible titles . Exactly what I wanted.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


May 30 2011, 7:12pm


Views: 2352
Nice to have confirmation, though we already knew this

They're pretty good titles, but we already exhausted the topic in the other thread a few weeks back. I wonder if we'll all start abbreviating them as AUJ and TABA rather than 'Part 1' and 'Part 2'? Somehow I don't think so...


Hamfast
Rohan


May 30 2011, 7:13pm


Views: 2343
Let the acronym's begin !

AUJ & TBA ?


Hamfast
Rohan


May 30 2011, 7:14pm


Views: 2313
You beat me Flagg !

 


Welsh hero
Gondor


May 30 2011, 7:17pm


Views: 1135
TBA

seems like the title is to be announced.

Wink

Twitter: @IrfonPennant


Bound
Rohan


May 30 2011, 7:29pm


Views: 1126
Wonderful Titles...

I know they've been hinted at before but it's nice having them confirmed. I think they are great, It's nice that There And Back Again is being used and Unexpected Journey is smart nod to The Unexpected Party.

Nice to see that they have plans to use Christopher Lee after all.... Fingers crossed things work out !

The man in black fled across the desert and the gunslinger followed


duats
Grey Havens

May 30 2011, 7:33pm


Views: 1115
Great press release

Now announce Smaug and Bard and we're good to go.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


May 30 2011, 7:39pm


Views: 1165
Christopher Lee confirmed as Saruman!

Oh, happy, happy day!

Finally, all the cast members whose characters would have been around during the time frame of TH have been locked in.

Now, I personally would have wanted Marton Csokas back as Celeborn as the last returnee, but I guess that's just me being greedy.

BTW, the titles were leaked some time ago, but very nice to have them confirmed...

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 30 2011, 7:47pm


Views: 1123
To me, it makes sense

that Smaug's voice wouldn't be announced before he's seen on screen, to maximise the dragon's impact. Then we have Cumberbatch's involvement in The Hobbit being hush-hush until it was spilled by Freeman (and that Cumberbatch isn't listed in the cast list on The Hobbit's Facebook announcement).

I see that as 1 + 1 = Cumberbatch is voicing Smaug.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Elizabeth
Half-elven


May 30 2011, 8:02pm


Views: 1146
Why do you want Csokas?

I really don't understand this passion for recycling LotR characters who have nothing to do with the story of The Hobbit. Yes, they were wonderful, but you can always watch the LotR movies again. The Hobbit is a different story, and will be wonderful in its own way.






Sign up now to lead a chapter discussion in LotR "The Return of the King" Book V! Discussions start June 5!

Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'


rings7
Rohan


May 30 2011, 8:04pm


Views: 1097
I'm confused

All this time i thought it was already announced and confirmed, so i was like "why the old news?" Crazy


duats
Grey Havens

May 30 2011, 8:06pm


Views: 1094
Isn't it possible

That Celeborn was a member of the White Council?

I always assumed he was.


RoseCotton
Lorien


May 30 2011, 8:10pm


Views: 1077
I reckon all this hush-hush is because...

Cumberbatch will be playing Bombadil! Smile


Eledhwen
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 30 2011, 8:13pm


Views: 1081
I always assumed he wasn't

I thought the White Council was Elrond, Galadriel, Círdan, Gandalf and Saruman, and possibly some of the other Istari (eg Radagast) if they bothered to turn up. I always got the impression that Celeborn was rather less powerful than his wife, although wise in his own way (as most people would be if they'd lived that long).

Boardwalk in mangroves


xxxyyy
Rohan

May 30 2011, 8:25pm


Views: 1050
Ian Holm too. Today is an happy day.


In Reply To



Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


May 30 2011, 8:25pm


Views: 1081
Celeborn was never exactly indentified as being on the White Council...

but it was said to include the highest Elf Lords, of which we was certainly one, and as far as I'm aware, is generally assumed to have been a part of it.

I would rather be watching Peter Jackson's "The Hobbit" and Ridley Scott's "Prometheus"...it's going to be a long few years.

(This post was edited by Captain Salt on May 30 2011, 8:30pm)


duats
Grey Havens

May 30 2011, 8:27pm


Views: 1051
Fair point

But of all the characters announced thus far, I'd say Radagast seems out of place. I never thought of him as a member. As someone mentioned before, he neglected his duties in order to study the birds and beasts of Middle-earth. Based on how his character is written, I've never seen him taking part in the Council.


(This post was edited by duats on May 30 2011, 8:28pm)


duats
Grey Havens

May 30 2011, 8:30pm


Views: 1052
Let's hope so

Cumberbatch as Smaug would be an incredible, left-field piece of casting.

Fingers crossed.


Morthoron
Gondor


May 30 2011, 8:47pm


Views: 1057
Not only was a Celeborn a member...

I believe it was he who called the 2nd White Council.
Although it was probably at Galadriel's suggestion, seeing as she wore the pants in the family. Wink

Please visit my new blog...The Dark Elf File...a slighty skewed journal of music and literary comment, fan-fiction and interminable essays.



Mythopoeia
Bree

May 30 2011, 8:52pm


Views: 1012
I'm so happy right now, these were my ideal titles for the two films :D

Just another sign that the films are going in the right direction, really.


Mythopoeia
Bree

May 30 2011, 10:00pm


Views: 993
Oh, and this makes me wonder if

it means we can count on the party not reaching Smaug and the Lonely Mountain until the second film? As it would be strange to call it 'There and Back Again' if 'There' was already reached in the first film.


The Grey Wanderer
Lorien


May 30 2011, 10:02pm


Views: 999
Whether or not he is on the council per-say, it really depends on how the attack on Dol Guldur is portrayed...

since appendix A to LOTR indicates he is the war leader of the Lorien elves ("Celeborn came forth and led the host of Lorien over Anduin in Many boats. They took Dol Guldur...". So, if it is just the White Council with a magic attack, he doesn't need to be there. But if it is an elf army, he should be there.

Though, maybe we will get XenaGaladriel instead, armed with her ancient and trusty elf weapon (OK, so I read "Bored of the Rings", so shoot me...).




Maiarmike
Grey Havens


May 30 2011, 10:20pm


Views: 943
Great news!

I liked the titles when I heard about them originally. Glad they went with 'An' not 'The' Unexpected Journey. There and Back Again is a given. Now we're just waiting on a couple roles. I have Dain, Bolg, Bard, and Smaug as the main roles to be announced yet. Don't think they're going to bother announcing any animals or trolls or creatures besides Smaug.

Nice to hear about Sir Christopher Lee as well, that just means they have a contract with him, but whether he is up to it when it comes the time is another story. Hopefully, he finds renewed energy and vigor in his step preparing to play Saruman once again. As for the acronyms for the titles, I'm going with UJ and TABA.

"I warn you, if you bore me, I shall take my revenge"
--J.R.R. Tolkien


Vangalad
Lorien


May 30 2011, 10:37pm


Views: 940
So glad C.Lee will be back!

I wasn't sure about the two titles in the first place, but now its official and starting to look more and more appropriate and familiar to me.


All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost;
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


The Grey Wanderer
Lorien


May 30 2011, 11:07pm


Views: 953
I think we have collectively concluded as much,

that they won't get to the mountain until the second movie. There have been many threads on the subject of where the break will be, but they don't get to the mountain until 2/3s the way through the book. A better question would be - does Legolas show up in the first movie or not?


KAOS82
Rohan


May 30 2011, 11:25pm


Views: 895
very good choice

when I red it before on facebook I wanted to put 1000 "I like it" Cool

and also Mir Lee join the party, W O N D E R F U L ! ! ! Wink

TÚRIN TURAMBAR DAGNIR GLAURUNGA & NIENOR NÍNIEL


Pete
Bree


May 31 2011, 12:19am


Views: 957
Updated Hobbit Logos

Just a quick Photoshop of the official Hobbit logo from the Facebook page with the new titles. I'm sure the final ones will look a million times better, but for now here ya go~






Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 31 2011, 12:26am


Views: 872
Those look fantastic. /

 

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


May 31 2011, 12:29am


Views: 872
Marvelous, simply marvelous!

Thanx.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Ruijor
Rohan


May 31 2011, 2:47am


Views: 851
The expected titles, all it´s good.

Everything is falling into place.


Wraith Buster
Gondor


May 31 2011, 2:50am


Views: 838
Those look so cool!//

 

Pedich Edhellen? Lau? Hria cuilë.

End of line.


Milknut
Rohan


May 31 2011, 2:58am


Views: 847
I know, that was my reaction, too!!!//

 

The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie.
The cake is a lie___


Wraith Buster
Gondor


May 31 2011, 3:02am


Views: 885
This might be an odd question but...

Did anyone else not recognize Cate for a couple seconds? I didn't see her name on the article at first and I was like "who's that?".... I'm I the only one?Tongue

Pedich Edhellen? Lau? Hria cuilë.

End of line.


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan

May 31 2011, 4:52am


Views: 828
Hmmm

I must say -I'm not really a fan of the titles... Seems like I'm the only one.

Guess I was really hoping they would use "Quest for Erebor" ...oh well. They'll grow on me!

Cool


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 31 2011, 6:40am


Views: 795
Yippieee! I'm on cloud 9!

Christopher Lee is finally confirmed Cool Plus, I love the hobbitty titles. I'm so glad the rumours came true.

I feel like dancing, but I need to maintain some degree of propriety for the next 8 hours FrownLaugh



Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 31 2011, 6:41am


Views: 775
Great job Pete!

Those look amazing. I can only imagine seeing the first of the titles appear on screen... I might... just... faint Sly



Patty
Immortal


May 31 2011, 11:09am


Views: 727
I'd like to have Csokas back, too. We can be greedy together. /

 

Permanent address: Into the West

Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!



Patty
Immortal


May 31 2011, 11:16am


Views: 764
C. Lee and Ian Holm= hurray! Now, hurry and get to filming them, please. /

 

Permanent address: Into the West

Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!



Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


May 31 2011, 11:30am


Views: 772
I know right!?

I'm SOOOO excited about all these returning characters. I can't even begin to imagine what roles they're going to play, and I'm getting totally jittery from all the waiting.

I hope PJ answers those soon and some hints about the shooting schedule are forthcoming.



sphdle1
Gondor


May 31 2011, 11:34am


Views: 752
I first saw it on IMDB's main page

http://www.imdb.com/news/ni11181256/
'The Hobbit' sequels officially 'The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey' and 'The Hobbit: There and Back Again'

I also remember hearing those two titles before, but I can't remember who/where. I thought someone on these forums had suggested them..!??

sphdle1

"You shall not pass!"


sphdle1
Gondor


May 31 2011, 11:39am


Views: 744
Yes, Holm is back

That is simply awesome news. I wonder if the movie starts with him narrating or maybe him reading the book to Frodo?

sphdle1

"You shall not pass!"


painjoiker
Grey Havens

May 31 2011, 11:41am


Views: 746
New Line Cinema had bought those titles before

And therefor a rumor came out that those were the titles of the films, which now is proven true :)


Patty
Immortal


May 31 2011, 11:47am


Views: 768
I note theat IMDb has Stephen Fry listed in Part one (as it reads)...

so whoever wrote this thinks the Master of Lake Town will be in AUJ. Of course, we know how very dependable that site is (NOT) but still...

Permanent address: Into the West

Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


May 31 2011, 1:48pm


Views: 727
"Quest for Erebor" would be very problematic

as it is a title from Unfinished Tales to which Peter & Company have no rights. It would be like thumbing their collective noses at the Tolkien Estate.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Boromir2k
Bree


May 31 2011, 1:49pm


Views: 767
First title- naw....second title -Yes!

Don't know why, but the first title doesn't do it for me. Sorry, it just sounds a little lame to me Smile


sphdle1
Gondor


May 31 2011, 3:47pm


Views: 685
Ahhh that rings a bell ... thx for the reminder //

 

sphdle1

"You shall not pass!"


sphdle1
Gondor


May 31 2011, 3:48pm


Views: 691
Interesting ... take with a grain of salt when looking at IMSDB (Internetation Movie Spoiler Database) //

 

sphdle1

"You shall not pass!"


Flagg
Tol Eressea


May 31 2011, 3:55pm


Views: 707
I don't think they can be sued for a title

Didn't someone publish a novel called Mirkwood?


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


May 31 2011, 3:58pm


Views: 689
I did not say anything about being sued

I just said it would be a rude gesture and cause unnecessary tension with the Tolkien Estate.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Flagg
Tol Eressea


May 31 2011, 4:09pm


Views: 691
They've caused plenty of tension by making these films in the first place

I don't see how using the Quest of Erebor title would be any more offensive than including the illustration of Barahir's ring.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


May 31 2011, 4:50pm


Views: 683
Barahir's ring is an obscure object burried in text...

The Quest for Erebor is the bold title for an Unfinished Tale. It is rumored that PJ & Co. sought the use of "Unfinished Tales" Quest for Erebor and was declined the privilege.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Patty
Immortal


May 31 2011, 5:43pm


Views: 703
Hey Kangi, do you happen to remember where in your travels...

you came across that rumor? I'm wondering if it elaborates.

Permanent address: Into the West

Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the LotR EE Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!



Kangi Ska
Half-elven


May 31 2011, 6:57pm


Views: 679
I do not remember where but it was around the Green Light announcement.

There was a lot of stuff flying around just then.

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



Garfeimao
Rohan


May 31 2011, 7:58pm


Views: 683
I wonder about Cumberbatch as someone else

This press release made Lee official, and the only other possible returnee would be Csokas playing Celeborn.

Well, what if the secrecy with Cumberbatch is that Celeborn is being recast? That would be another logical reason to keep him on the downlow as it were.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



Cruise to Middle-earth


duats
Grey Havens

May 31 2011, 10:12pm


Views: 535
Considering Cumberbatch looks nothing like Csokas

I don't see that as a possibility. Csokas is a NZ actor, and he doesn't have much on his plate. If the script calls for Celeborn, we'll see Csokas return.

Cumberbatch will either be Smaug or Bard. Mark it down.


kiwifan
Rohan

Jun 1 2011, 10:55am


Views: 546
Csokas and the second storyline

in reply to Elizabeth's post who wrote this:

"I really don't understand this passion for recycling LotR characters who have nothing to do with the story of The Hobbit. Yes, they were wonderful, but you can always watch the LotR movies again. The Hobbit is a different story, and will be wonderful in its own way."
(sorry folks, I haven't figured out the proper quoting mechanism yet Evil)

I can see why you would want the two Hobbit films to be just that --- Bilbo's story, as told in the book. (I guess that's the purist's view, if I may use that term). I, too, don't want them to mess with that story as such, and hope that they will stick pretty faithfully to the book for that particular storyline (no Itaril love story in there, please!!!)

However, I also belong to the many fans who have become so attached to the LotR characters and are greedy for any more bits of Middle-earth that we would be most happy to be told the whole Dol Guldur ---Necromancer story as well, in a second and pretty much independent storyline. And there, a number of our old friends may play quite a large part. If they must have Itaril, let her be in that storyline (but please no soppy chick-flick Hollywood-style romance!). There we can also have Legolas without his impingeing on the Hobbit storyline or his subsequent relationship with Gimli in LotR. And yes, I would like Celeborn (but only played by Csokas!) in this DG storyline, and perhaps even Haldir, as part of an Elf army from Lothlorien? I must confess to a great love for elves and would be thrilled to bits to see more of them. Since PJ seems to be rather fond of battles and the Battle of the Five Armies will probably be the climax of the second Film (TABA, was it?), it would make sense to have the battle at DG at the end of the first film (AUJ).

That said, I must confess I do feel ambivalent about that second storyline since for that one, the scriptwriting team must have 'invented' a lot of new stuff. On the one hand, I would like to have it in the films (for the above reasons), on the other hand I worry that it might become rather 'Untolkienesque' in plot and dialogue and thus turn out to be a disappointment. Like I wrote in a previous thread (can't remember which), I'm apprehensive about the extent and manner of del Toro's input. I want ME (including the way people speak and look and act) to be the ME we know and love and not changed into something less challenging and more easily digestible to appeal to the great masses just to boost ticket sales. That does make me at least a demi-purist, right? Wink






'Goodness gracious, you really are a messie!' 'Oh no, I'm not, these are all just mathoms...'