The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Howard Shore Going There... Back Again



News from Bree
spymaster@theonering.net

Nov 18 2010, 4:22am


Views: 2264
Howard Shore Going There... Back Again

Ahead of next week's performance of The Lord of the Rings Symphony in Vancouver, Canada, the guys over at The Province snagged an interview with Howard Shore and asked him about whether he'll be returning to Middle-earth to score the upcoming Hobbit films. And for fans of the outstanding music Shore's composed for The Lord of the Rings films his reply should serve to satiate sufficiently... at least until the score itself finally debuts a couple years from now.
"We've talked about making these movies for many years, at least since 2002. It looks like finally it's going to be happening. I'll be working on it for the next three years -- it's going to consume a lot of my time and work now."

Read the entire interview over at The Province.

(This post was edited by entmaiden on Nov 18 2010, 12:31pm)


Rosie-with-the-ribbons
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 18 2010, 9:51am


Views: 1451
Woohoo

I'm a happy hobbit.

Of course we already knew he would be back thanks to Doug Adams. But to hear it from Howard Shore himself is even better!



Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 18 2010, 9:55am


Views: 1413
Yeah me too

I was just yesterday checking out the website for the new Harry Potter soundtrack, complete with limited edition releases and all, and I literally, and I mean LITERALLY, got a chill down my spine thinking about what the soundtrack for The Hobbit, its website, its limited/regular/extended editions, etc., would be like Cool



dormouse
Half-elven

Nov 18 2010, 10:49am


Views: 1389
And me....

The music he wrote for the previous films is so good. Can't wait.... Will jolly well have to wait! Wink


Bexlin
Rivendell

Nov 18 2010, 11:59am


Views: 1363
Was fairly sure he'd be there...

BUT so great to hear it confirmed!! Yay! I so love the LOTR soundtrack and hope for more beautiful music for the Hobbit.


sphdle1
Gondor


Nov 18 2010, 12:13pm


Views: 1369
Awesome news...

& no more discussions on who will compose it if he couldn't Cool


Silmaril
Rohan


Nov 18 2010, 12:37pm


Views: 1378
howard shore's music is a very important element of the films!

i cannot imagine anyone else doing this!


Magpie
Immortal


Nov 18 2010, 12:42pm


Views: 1376
hadn't Howard talked about it last year in NYC, as well?

I know he's mentioned it more than once in interviews. It's just always easier for me to track down Doug's comments to quote than it is Howard's.


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Huan71
Lorien

Nov 18 2010, 12:45pm


Views: 1374
No argument there !


In Reply To
i cannot imagine anyone else doing this!



I think that's one thing EVERYONE can agree on! Wink

New Zealand,
Home to the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit Movies...


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 18 2010, 12:56pm


Views: 1397
Yeah, you've posted Doug's comments about the same here as well...

... I'm sure of that Smile



Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 18 2010, 2:05pm


Views: 1352
I can.

Howard Shore is the perfect choice and I certainly want him to score The Hobbit, but the films wouldn't be destroyed if he didn't. There are plenty of other great composers out there. John Williams comes to mind, as does Hans Zimmer.


Lindele
Gondor

Nov 18 2010, 2:12pm


Views: 1362
Let's just say

nobody can do it like Howard Shore can. And his way is the right way. As amazing as some other composers are, they just aren't right for these movies.


B.R.n
The Shire

Nov 18 2010, 2:22pm


Views: 1377
King Kong, anyone?

Again, you are all assuming what it is only a possibility.What about the story surrounding the film soundtrack of King Kong?Didn't SPJ and Shore have some kind of fall out on that occasion?


(This post was edited by B.R.n on Nov 18 2010, 2:29pm)


Lindele
Gondor

Nov 18 2010, 2:34pm


Views: 1348
I don't think

Howard Shore and PJ had a falling out. It was more of a studio choice to get a new composer. Besides, In the interview Shore said he was coming back for the Hobbit, and we all know that Shore was probably the most reluctant of all to leave 'Middle-earth.' So he is probably one of the most excited to return.


Magpie
Immortal


Nov 18 2010, 2:35pm


Views: 1352
a bus could fall on his head, too.

That's life. Full of unexpected possibilties


But what we are discussing is: Is Howard Shore scoring the Hobbit.

And the answer to that is: Yes.

I don't think the fact that he was replaced on King Kong is going to factor in here. If it were, it would have already. One does not go... 'gee... I liked this guy for LOTR but it didn't work for KK. I'm not sure if he's right for TH but let's try him'. If one had doubts, one would not - for a movie this size - take on a risky venture.

I think the fact that Shore was replaced on KK and still asked back for TH means they are even more convinced he's right for the job. I also things it makes for a better movie since they are clearly going for continuity between TH and LOTR. And I don't think there is any bad blood between them and the idea that there is has been repeatedly denied by Shore and his associates.


Quote
Again, you are all assuming what is is only a possibility.


We're not assuming anything. It is confirmed. If you want to take the slim possibility that he would replaced on the project as evidence that his scoring is 'only a possibility' than we have to say that about every person involved. Any one of them could get ill or injured or have a family emergency or be determined to be too young for the part. But we don't label their involvement as 'only a possibility'. They are involved. Tomorrow, they may not be.

Shore is involved and scoring. :-)

btw: I don't think PJ & HS had a falling out over KK. His replacement was a creative choice. "Falling out" is a quarrel, a disagreement, a fight... they didn't do that. They just determined that Shore's approach was not what the movie needed.


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Magpie
Immortal


Nov 18 2010, 2:39pm


Views: 1395
Well, not everyone agrees :-)

I once said, 'It seemed like Tolkien fans ruled the world' because, when one spends time with like minded people, we feel the strength of numbers.

Most people hanging in places that discuss the LOTR tend to be skewed with people who liked Shore. And Shore fans are particularly loyal and avid.

But not everyone thinks Shore was the best choice. I've seen plenty of fans who still maintain that someone else could have done it better and/or that Shore fell short of their expectations.

So, "a LOT of us" can agree, perhaps. But not "EVERYONE". :-)


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Slayer_Of_Orcs
The Shire


Nov 18 2010, 3:06pm


Views: 1315
Yesssssss

I've been waiting for some sort of confirmation on this. I was afraid that he would not be the composer. It is getting better every day.

_______________________________________



We are waiting ...


Slayer_Of_Orcs
The Shire


Nov 18 2010, 3:22pm


Views: 1335
LOTR fans ... at least the fans of the movies ...

... have a large emotional investment in the trilogy and those involved in its creation. I can see how some might view any variance from a desired path as a "falling out". I too have been wary of any issues that might deviate from the path that I would like to see The Hobbit take in its evolution.

_______________________________________



We are waiting ...


Hamfast
Rohan


Nov 18 2010, 3:26pm


Views: 1333
I am delighted to hear this news.

I personally believe the LOTR soundtracks are the best in film history. I think it is very important to have connective threads to LOTR in The Hobbit, and this is the most important one other than Ian Mckellan. Great news on a thursday morning !


macfalk
Valinor


Nov 18 2010, 4:15pm


Views: 1296
Great. I hope

Shore gets more time now so he can write the score in peace... remember during ROTK he had a huge task in very little time!



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


macfalk
Valinor


Nov 18 2010, 4:15pm


Views: 1313
Zimmer

I would be devastated if Shore would have been lost but, Zimmer would have been my number one replacement.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


B.R.n
The Shire

Nov 18 2010, 4:22pm


Views: 1318
David Holmes

Meh, my vote goes to David Holmes and a jazztronica musical interpretation of The Hobbit >:)


Silmaril
Rohan


Nov 18 2010, 4:30pm


Views: 1303
king kong was something different.

they had different opinions how the king kong score should sound, this will not happen in this case, that's for sure.


Silmaril
Rohan


Nov 18 2010, 4:34pm


Views: 1301
Summoning


In Reply To
Meh, my vote goes to David Holmes and a jazztronica musical interpretation of The Hobbit >:)



i think there are a lot of black metal fans who want summoning to do that soundtrack.


(This post was edited by Silmaril on Nov 18 2010, 4:35pm)


B.R.n
The Shire

Nov 18 2010, 4:35pm


Views: 1304
^&%^&%^&%

Seriously now, I'm afraid that too many members of the former LOTR crew might feel overconfident about making this film, mainly because of the trilogy's success.And in this case lightning never strikes twice in the same spot.Do I hear Razzie nominations?

Since the news confirmed that The Hobbit stays in NZ, I had 2 ill-fated dreams:one in which the final product looked like a silly digital cartoonish version of Avatar spliced with Beowulf;the second one featured myself on The Hobbit's set while finding out that the production was cancelled(Martin Freeman was there too) .I just can't stop thinking that this flilm will hit the floor(is that an idiom?).


Owain
Tol Eressea


Nov 18 2010, 4:44pm


Views: 584
Incredible composer. The music for the trilogy is...

not incredible only for the films but timeless music. I often listen to the soundtrack.

Middle Earth is New Zealand!

"Question everything, embrace the bad, and hold on to the good."


shadow0421
Bree

Nov 18 2010, 4:49pm


Views: 580
John Williams...

is my all time favorite composer but LOTR is my all time favorite soundtrack. I agree that Williams would not be right for this. Only Shore can take me to Middle Earth


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 18 2010, 5:17pm


Views: 551
How about Tangarine Dream or modest mouse or Elvis? //

 

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Welsh hero
Gondor

Nov 18 2010, 7:05pm


Views: 540
musical consistency

I do thinkThat The Hobbit and LOTR need musical consistency. Much like it should stay in NZ, PJ directing (No offence GDT) and as much returning actors as possible.


Not gonna say who would be a replacment

http://www.facebook.com/hobbitnz


Rosie-with-the-ribbons
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 18 2010, 8:01pm


Views: 522
If I remember correctly

but it is a long time ago, it did come up, but since The Hobbit wasn't confirmed then, it still was a "rumour". I know the question got asked this year in NYC, and he said that if The Hobbit would be made he would love to come back. So some what the same answer. Really glad we now have a true confirmation. That will be another incredible soundtrack, and one more trip back to Middle-earth.



rings7
Rohan


Nov 18 2010, 8:02pm


Views: 523
What the


In Reply To
Seriously now, I'm afraid that too many members of the former LOTR crew might feel overconfident about making this film, mainly because of the trilogy's success.And in this case lightning never strikes twice in the same spot.Do I hear Razzie nominations?

Since the news confirmed that The Hobbit stays in NZ, I had 2 ill-fated dreams:one in which the final product looked like a silly digital cartoonish version of Avatar spliced with Beowulf;the second one featured myself on The Hobbit's set while finding out that the production was cancelled(Martin Freeman was there too) .I just can't stop thinking that this flilm will hit the floor(is that an idiom?).



Razzie nominations?? Too much pesimism on your part.


Huan71
Lorien

Nov 18 2010, 11:14pm


Views: 508
fair comment magpie....

How about- The majority of people who loved the LotR's movies liked Howard Shores score of the films...? Wink

New Zealand,
Home to the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit Movies...


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 18 2010, 11:33pm


Views: 526
For instance.

This author, a Tolkien scholar and a music critic, recently had an essay published on classical and folk music "that inspired Tolkien and was inspired by him" and included a paragraph on Shore's scores, which he finds mixed in quality.

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Huan71
Lorien

Nov 18 2010, 11:53pm


Views: 482
T.Dream and Inferno

Hey Kangi,
Didn't Tangerine Dream get quite a lot of criticism for their 'Score' to Giuseppe's version of Dante's Inferno?
I speak as someone who would put 'Thru metamorphic Rocks' in their 50'ish tracks of all time.

How about The Floyd as an alternative. Check out Echoes (from Meddle) and 2001 !
And, yes, i've heard about the "dark side of the rainbow" theory !

New Zealand,
Home to the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit Movies...


Hamfast
Rohan


Nov 18 2010, 11:59pm


Views: 481
Maybe you're right.

I listened to " Let Mortal Heroes Sing Your Fame " by Summoning today.....awesome album. Every time I listen to them, I can't help but think that their music is tailor made for a soundtrack.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Nov 19 2010, 12:12am


Views: 529
To be fair, that particular author is a major critic of the films

I think the main point that's being made here is that most people who like the films also appreciate Shore's work on them. The author in question (I'm not quite sure why we are avoiding identifying him by name) is one of the biggest critics of the films that I know of (even going so far as to get into a literary argument with Tom Shippey over them), so he hardly qualifies. Indeed, his comment "considering how many people think Shore must be marvelous because he worked for the sainted Peter Jackson, the criticisms need to be hammered in" suggests (to me at least) that he is as biased against Shore because of his dislike of the films as he accuses others of being biased in favor of Shore because of their love of the films.

[I note that the author in question is someone that I owe a great deal to, and my comments in no way lessen the gratitude that I feel towards him.]

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 19 2010, 12:30am


Views: 484
Sarcasm does not work well on the interweb.

I am sorry. I am in love with Howard Shore's Score. Folk music might be an appropriate alternative but rock/pop in virtually all of its forms would sink the ship (in my not so humble opinion.)

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket


Huan71
Lorien

Nov 19 2010, 12:54am


Views: 468
don't worry old chap..

webbyinter sarcasm works jus' fine...
Sometimes it's the reply that can get misconstrued' Cool

...So you wouldn't consider Vangelis? Wink

New Zealand,
Home to the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit Movies...


Huan71
Lorien

Nov 19 2010, 1:05am


Views: 466
How about...

The herbaliser or Sun Ra?....
Tongue

New Zealand,
Home to the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit Movies...


Samuel Walters
Bree


Nov 19 2010, 1:19am


Views: 475
I remember ...

... a Q & A session between Howard and Doug before the 2009 FOTR performance at RCMH. They discussed the Hobbit and spoke as if there were no uncertainties with respect to Howard composing the music.

Howard not composing for the Hobbit would be like Williams not composing for the Star Wars prequels. It just wouldn't work.

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Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Nov 19 2010, 1:54am


Views: 481
Kangi runs flapping and screaming into the night!

NO-O-O-O-O!!!!

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
New Zealand is Middle-earth & today life is good.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.

Photobucket

(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Nov 19 2010, 1:55am)


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 19 2010, 2:18am


Views: 478
Could be.

But it is possible to dislike the score independently of disliking the films. I bought the FOTR soundtrack CD before seeing the film, listened to it straight through, found the music pretty dull but inoffensive, then saw the film, for which my dislike was much stronger.


Quote
I'm not quite sure why we are avoiding identifying him by name


It's just internet custom for referring to people who sign their online comments by screen name rather than their true name. (I have occasionally slipped in that regard.)

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Nov 19 2010, 2:37am


Views: 474
Corrolation, if not causation


In Reply To
But it is possible to dislike the score independently of disliking the films. I bought the FOTR soundtrack CD before seeing the film, listened to it straight through, found the music pretty dull but inoffensive, then saw the film, for which my dislike was much stronger.

That certainly provides good evidence that in your case at least your dislike of Shore's score was not caused by your subsequent (more pronounced) dislike of the actual films. However, I can't help but note that you are another example of someone who is less than enamored of the score and also dislikes the films in general. I've encountered a number of similar cases (beyond yourself and the unnamed author that you cited), but I can't recall encountering any cases in which an individual likes the films overall, but disdains Shore's score. I'm sure there must be some cases like that, but I suspect they are rare. It may (or may not) be interesting to explore whether there is any reason for this seeming correlation.


In Reply To

Quote
I'm not quite sure why we are avoiding identifying him by name


It's just internet custom for referring to people who sign their online comments by screen name rather than their true name. (I have occasionally slipped in that regard.)

Personally, I'm not convinced that that custom should hold when the subject is a writing that was published by the author under his real name. But I will continue to follow your lead in this case.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 19 2010, 2:44am


Views: 459
Maybe I disliked the film because I disliked the score. //

 

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Magpie
Immortal


Nov 19 2010, 3:01am


Views: 474
at another forum....


Quote
I can't recall encountering any cases in which an individual likes the films overall, but disdains Shore's score. I'm sure there must be some cases like that, but I suspect they are rare. It may (or may not) be interesting to explore whether there is any reason for this seeming correlation.




We get a fair number at imdb saying they liked the film but didn't like the score. But then, imdb regulars are a bit known for disliking things. I don't know how many are just trying to jerk someone's chain. But, as long as they don't swear and froth at the mouth, I tend to take them at their word and leave it at that.

I thought we had people on this forum saying they'd like another composer but I wouldn't let you quote me at that. And maybe they weren't saying they disliked Shore... only that they felt another could do it as well as he could.



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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Nov 19 2010, 3:18am


Views: 473
Not likely

I've seen enough of what you have written over the past few years to know that you have viable, reasonable, and very specific reasons for disliking the films that have nothing to do with the score.

Some of them I even agree with you about!

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Nov 19 2010, 3:20am


Views: 462
The only one that I can think of off the top of my head

who has stated here that he would prefer another composer is Gandalf's Mother. And he is another strong critic of the films.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


macfalk
Valinor


Nov 19 2010, 7:31am


Views: 435
Shore

The ones who dislikes the films usually dislike Shore's score, as earlier mentioned here.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


Silmaril
Rohan


Nov 19 2010, 7:32am


Views: 457
Summoning

they are really great (btw they are working on a new album now). i don't think that their music would fit for these movies (there is not only darkness) but they did another awesome interpretation of tolkiens books.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 19 2010, 11:59am


Views: 423
Wouldn't it?


Quote
Howard not composing for the Hobbit would be like Williams not composing for the Star Wars prequels. It just wouldn't work.

I think the Star Wars prequels could have been scored satisfactorily by another composer. As long as they were allowed to incorporate Williams's main theme, of course – the one piece of music from Star Wars that everyone remembers. Beyond that, any reasonably talented composer could have filled in for him. He was replaced on the Harry Potter sequels, and that worked out pretty well (or not too badly, at least).



Samuel Walters
Bree


Nov 19 2010, 12:33pm


Views: 486
Strongly disagree

On a number of points. First off, do you think that "any reasonably talented composer could fill in" for Howard Shore on The Hobbit? Would any reasonably talented author be able to write sequels to LOTR? And have them be the received and viewed and enjoyed the same as the originals? Both Shore and Williams are intimately linked with the LOTR/Star Wars film franchises because of not only their style, but thematic composition. These composers literally create a significant part of the fabric of these films. Replacing them would fundamentally alter the language of the music and, therefore, the films themselves. Could it be done? Of course. But the results would be significant and detrimental.

You offer Harry Potter as an example. But I disagree with you on a number of points. First, the first three HP films aren't as rich in themes and motifs as either LOTR or Star Wars. No one looks at HP 1-3 and sees the same level of thematic work as Star Wars and LOTR. Secondly, and more importantly, the music for the Harry Potter sequels has not "worked out pretty well." Many film score fans see the scores for films 4-6 as middling at best. And while I actually enjoy the scores for HP 6&7.1, there's a bigger problem than critical reviews: Most significantly, nearly *all* of the thematic work Williams did for HP (relatively minimal though it was) is absent from these films. Occasionally you'll hear "Hedwig's Theme," and perhaps the "Quidditch Theme," but that's about it. Musically, there's no coherence between the Williams compositions and those of Doyle, Hooper and Desplat. They simply don't result the same "opus" that six films of Star Wars (and likely five films of LOTR/Hobbit) represent. Furthermore, even when replacement composers have tried to utilize many Williams themes in a score, the results have not been particularly spectacular in terms of musical coherence (see: Superman Returns).

So if you want a Hobbit film or Star Wars film essentially absent of the thematic work, not to mention musical styles and sensibilities, created by the original composer, then you're entitled to your opinion. But to say that there'd be no fundamental change would be erroneous. The music is as important to Star Wars as it is to LOTR/Hobbit. Star Wars is rich in thematic work unlike just about any other franchise out there -- save, perhaps, LOTR.

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Daeorn Aldalómë
Bree


Nov 19 2010, 1:25pm


Views: 449
Things are falling into place!

I am so excited. My debate is whether to re-read The Hobbit now or to wait until the film is closer.... or both!!

Nai hiruvalyë Valimar.


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 19 2010, 1:29pm


Views: 460
First of all

yes, I do think that any reasonably talented composer could have taken over the composing for The Hobbit and done a good job. I'm not sure why you're bringing up the books, as writing novels and scoring films are as different as waffles and aeroplanes; but yes, I also think that there are many writers who could craft interesting and successful continuations of Tolkien's work (though I would not like for any individual writer to be given this privilege, but that's another discussion). A new composer would presumably be allowed to utilise the most important connective themes (The Shire, Rivendell, Gollum etc), and I expect that Shore's work would have been a major influence on the rest of the score. Taking this into consideration, I think it's likely that the new soundtrack would have sounded quite similar to that of The Lord of the Rings.

You say that the results would be 'detrimental'. But can you say that for certain? I've already made it clear that Howard Shore is my number-one choice to score The Hobbit, but as much as I enjoy some of his work, I wouldn't say he's the greatest composer alive. If anyone deserves that title, I think it is John Williams, who has composed so many iconic and memorable themes that it is difficult for me to imagine the world of cinema without him. Would I have been satisfied if he had scored The Hobbit? Certainly. Another suggestion, made by the member Gandalf'sMother, was Hans Zimmer. At first I was sceptical, thinking of Pirates of the Caribbean. Then I heard his fantastic work on Inception, and I have to say I agree: he is a fine composer, and I would be comfortable with him taking over The Hobbit.

I used the example of Harry Potter because it was the first example of a skilled composer being replaced on a major series to an acceptable standard that came to my mind. At first I wrote that Williams's successors had done 'pretty well', but I immediately corrected myself to 'not too badly'. I personally thought that Patrick Doyle's score for the fourth film was great, and I found the later films' soundtracks to be acceptable, too (though I haven't seen the seventh yet). I'd consider one good soundtrack and two all-right ones to be 'not too bad'. Smile But you're right, Harry Potter isn't a very good illustrative example of a composer being replaced well. But I don't think we can judge how Zimmer or Williams would have replaced Shore by examining how Doyle, Hooper and Desplat replaced Williams. I wouldn't consider Hooper to be a 'reasonably talented composer', but perhaps he's just not to my taste.

As I have said, I do not 'want' Howard Shore to be replaced. I am simply saying that the films would survive the loss of their composer, as they have survived the loss of their director, and as they would survive the loss of Ian McKellen, if worst came to worst. Just because I'd be willing to let go of them and move on doesn't mean I'd be delighted to do so. If a genuinely good composer replaced Howard Shore – and integrated his thematic work skilfully – I would still see the films, love them and most likely enjoy the soundtrack. But this is a silly hypothetical discussion – we know Shore will be returning, and there's no one I'd rather have.


Samuel Walters
Bree


Nov 19 2010, 2:03pm


Views: 466
Well ...

I bring up books because replacing the author of a book in the middle of a series of books is similar to replacing the composer of music in the middle of a series of films -- or at least the composers like Williams and Shore who are writing thematically and attempting to create a unified musical opus that parallels the on-screen visuals. Can they all be replaced? Certainly. Someone else could have replaced Rowling as the author of the Potter books at any point in time. Would some people prefer the replacements? Almost certainly. But it's detrimental to remove the original author (or composer or director or actor) the before the works are completed. Ideas that were intended to be developed later may not be translated through the efforts of someone else. No matter how similar the new material might be to the original, it could never reflect the same intent, inspiration, and craft. To me, that's a detriment.

The Hobbit ought to be a continuation of Shore's compositional work from LOTR, just as the prequels were a continuation of the compositional work from the Original Star Wars Trilogy. Can The Hobbit survive if Zimmer or Desplat or even Williams came on board to score the films? Absolutely. Would I refuse to watch the Hobbit films if Shore were not the composer? No. Could I enjoy the replacement scores as much or even more than the originals? It's possible. But even so, the films certainly would not work as a whole, musically speaking. No matter how talented or skilled the replacement composer might be (even if the replacement is objectively superior to the original), the resulting score would be fundamentally different and something would have been lost in the translation.

So I say again: "Howard not composing for the Hobbit would be like Williams not composing for the Star Wars prequels. It just wouldn't work." If you want to qualify the statement by adding "in terms of the overall musical coherence of the films" that's fine. But it was implied in the original statement anyway.

Dauntlessmedia.net: Reviews and analysis of modern media (Star Trek, BSG, Lost, LOTR, etc.)


Hamfast
Rohan


Nov 19 2010, 3:28pm


Views: 448
Do you own physical copies of Summoning?

The reason I ask is because i've only bought their albums off itunes, and you don't receive a digital booklet. I am wondering if the physical copy comes with a lyric sheet before I order anything.

Although our comments about Summoning were clearly tongue in cheek, there are some instrumental elements of their work which would work just fine for The Hobbit.

Are you a fan of other Tolkien related metal? Battlelore, Blind Guardian maybe? Elvenking is good....Amon Amarth is a great band, but it appears they are related to Tolkien in name only. Most ( if not all...) of their work is about brutal Viking warfare ( which is fine by me...)

Any other Tolkien metal you know of? Cheers Silmaril !


Hamfast
Rohan


Nov 20 2010, 12:43am


Views: 421
Good for you Huan !

I can't believe someone managed to mention Sun Ra on a LOTR message board ! I happen to be a big fan of Sun Ra, and the thought of his music having anything to do with Tolkien gave me a good laugh !


StarElf
Rohan

Nov 20 2010, 7:10am


Views: 393
Hooray!

We were pretty sure it was going to happen, but it's a nice relief to hear it's finally official. Yay!


Huan71
Lorien

Nov 20 2010, 10:03am


Views: 388
I must confess..

..That i don't own any of his music, but am familiar with some of his work via the miracle of the inter-web thingy !
I used to tinker around with a spot of DJ'ing about 15 or so years ago (mainly electronic type music..) and ended up collecting anything i discovered and took my fancy (vinyl, tape, CD, and more recently, the odd download. As a consequence, the music aspect of the Middle earth movies is a subject i feel a little more confident to join in on any discussions with than in many other areas!
So, having said that...
You sound like you know your music? Well, i often find that i hear a film score during a movie and get really taken by it, but if i hear it in isolation, say, on a CD, i don't get 'into' it as much. I was talking on P.M. with someone about this as regards the Harry P. DH's score...I found The tracks did not stand so well on their own. What i liked about Howard Shores LotR's CD's is that many (though not all) of the music tracks work just as well as singles as they do as part of a movie!
Do you feel the same way?

BTW i'd be interested to hear what Royksopp or The Aphex Twin would come up with if asked to contribute a work for a specifically chosen scene!?...Crazy

New Zealand,
Home to the Lord of the Rings and Hobbit Movies...


sharku
Rivendell

Nov 20 2010, 10:12am


Views: 389
or...


In Reply To
...say he's the greatest composer alive. If anyone deserves that title, I think it is John Williams...


...or Ennio Morricone?


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Nov 20 2010, 2:08pm


Views: 387
Funny how I just sort of took that for granted

I shouldn't have, and I'm glad to see it confirmed.


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


Flagg
Tol Eressea


Nov 20 2010, 3:49pm


Views: 373
Perhaps.

I am not very familiar with his work.


Silmaril
Rohan


Nov 20 2010, 5:13pm


Views: 377
summoning cd

i own all cds. there are no lyrics in the booklets. i do not listen to the other bands you mentioned. i like summoning related die verbannten kinder evas. my metal favorites are entombed, my dying bride, paradise lost, amorphis and wolves in the throne room.


Hamfast
Rohan


Nov 20 2010, 6:07pm


Views: 377
I do feel the same way.

Howard Shore's scores stand up just fine as individual tracks as well as a complete listen start to finish. I particularly like " concerning hobbits" and anything featuring Ben Del Maestro. All three of Howard's scores own a permanent spot on the ipod. Another example of a perfect soundtrack/score IMO is "The Nightmare Before Christmas". I believe this is Danny Elfman's masterpiece, just like LOTR is Shore's.

Regarding Sun Ra, I have played drums since age 12 (i'm 38) and have done a fair bit of DJing myself. About 10 years ago, I also started experimenting with electronic,sample-based music production,making my own remixes to play out or give to other DJ friends to use. Sun Ra records are highly sought after by folks like myself. He was a strange dude, and his music contains many strange (home-made) instruments that are isolated in the track and easily sampled for your own use.

I think Aphex Twin would come up with something very interesting. I could hear them providing atmospheric elements in many places. Good choice DJ Huan !


Hamfast
Rohan


Nov 20 2010, 6:18pm


Views: 360
Darn.

I was really hoping for lyrics to read their Tolkien interpretations. As you know it can be difficult to understand at times. I am familiar with Entombed, My Dying Bride, Paradise Lost, and Amorphis. The singer from Entombed did a guest spot on the newest Amon Amarth album "Twilight of the Thunder God" the track is titled " Guardians of Asgard" I highly recommend it. Thanks for the info Silmaril !


(This post was edited by entmaiden on Nov 20 2010, 6:46pm)


Hamfast
Rohan


Nov 20 2010, 6:35pm


Views: 364
I would vote for Ennio Morricone.

Absolutely stunning body of work across many genres and decades. A true master.


Silmaril
Rohan


Nov 21 2010, 10:47am


Views: 342
lyrics

you can read all lyrics on their site summoning.info

thanks for the entombed info!


peleowyn
Rivendell


Nov 25 2010, 5:55am


Views: 365
Only Howard Shore ...

I think, could capture the heart of the Hobbit films in a way that will make us feel we're going back home to Middle Earth ... I think his writing for the LOTR trilogy went way beyond a matter of simple "skill" or "ability" or talent, which many composers have ... I think he really connected with Tolkien's work (and with the movies' producers & writers) with his heart, in a very deep and almost spiritual way ... he really felt Tolkien's world in his heart (and from what I've read, a good part of his heart remains in that world...) - and he expressed in music how many of our hearts feel about Tolkien's world (and our own) - to me, he's the only composer who can "take us back home" to that world in these new movies in such a deep way ... reading Doug Adams' book has been a real eye-opener on this subject!