The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
hobbit movie GDT



pasi
The Shire

Jun 3 2010, 8:48pm


Views: 57783
hobbit movie GDT

I have just think that there is something strange in GDT decision.
1- The GDT contract?
2- The Hobbit is not so important to GDT to wait a little more?
3- Perhaps he now somethig about the all hobbit movie that we don´t now, ex: there is no Hobbit movie
4- The leaving of GDT puts PJ in a dificult position to all people involved, GDT don't care?
5- He simple leave the place?
6- They left behind is "drawing book"?
7- In movie business all people involved now that the delay in the production is "normal"
8- Think: If hapenned a little "tragedy" during the shooting, like great rain and for that reason they have to wait 3 or 6 months, he leave the movie???

There is something behind the curtains, and I think that they involved PJ
Remember Aragorn casting...
Remenber again Looney Bones

For me I don´t understand the GDT position and I don´t like it.

( sorry for my poor english)
pasi (Portugal)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jun 3 2010, 8:58pm


Views: 50443
pasi: I think that we need to wait to hear from GDT.

He promised to post a longer explanation this week here on TorN. Maybe then he will even answer questions that we all have

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.





pasi
The Shire

Jun 3 2010, 9:04pm


Views: 51906
The explanation

Thanks for your information...

Is a GDT explanation?

But way don´t he explain the all reasons in NZ.

Wy we have to wait so many days.

PJ had the nerve and the courage to put the LOTR in action, remember the LOTR history.

We need a person like PJ to do the hobbit.
We need a director who loves Tolkien like PJ.


duats
Grey Havens

Jun 3 2010, 9:11pm


Views: 55339
The situation is hardly as simple

As GDT "not caring." He does care. Any man who spends two years scripting and designing a movie, and even taking time out of his schedule to post on a fansite, clearly cares.

Understand that Hollywood is a complex system. I would imagine that if GDT had no plans for future projects, he'd be more inclined to wait a little bit longer for the Hobbit issues to get sorted out. But the fact of the matter is - that's not the case. He has a contract with Universal studios to deliver several projects for them over the course of the next several years. The only reason he was able to take on The Hobbit was because, originally, it wouldn't have conflicted with that agreement. But now it does. You can't begrudge him for having his hands tied. It's unfair to expect a director to put his life on hold for six years when he has other commitments.

Nobody wanted it to come to this, least of all GDT. So please don't suggest that he just walked away because he wanted to.


(This post was edited by duats on Jun 3 2010, 9:14pm)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jun 3 2010, 9:12pm


Views: 49786
I know it is GDTs explaination but it is a good place to start.

I want to hear from Peter Jackson and anyone else involved as well. Even then we may never know all of the story.

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.





Woodyend
Gondor


Jun 3 2010, 9:13pm


Views: 62445
2- The Hobbit is not so important to GDT to wait a little more?


In Reply To
I have just think that there is something strange in GDT decision.
1- The GDT contract?
2- The Hobbit is not so important to GDT to wait a little more?
3- Perhaps he now somethig about the all hobbit movie that we don´t now, ex: there is no Hobbit movie
4- The leaving of GDT puts PJ in a dificult position to all people involved, GDT don't care?
5- He simple leave the place?
6- They left behind is "drawing book"?
7- In movie business all people involved now that the delay in the production is "normal"
8- Think: If hapenned a little "tragedy" during the shooting, like great rain and for that reason they have to wait 3 or 6 months, he leave the movie???

There is something behind the curtains, and I think that they involved PJ
Remember Aragorn casting...
Remenber again Looney Bones

For me I don´t understand the GDT position and I don´t like it.

( sorry for my poor english)
pasi (Portugal)



Well his contract was for 3 years two movies. Now with all the problems, the 3 years has became 6 years.

By the way your English is much better than you think. Welcome too our board!

May your beer be laid under an enchantment of surpassing excellence for seven years!
~~~~~~~~Gandalf~~~~~~~

Listen. Strange women lying in ponds, distributing swords, is no basis for a system of government. Supreme executive power derives from a mandate from the masses, not from some farcical aquatic ceremony!


pasi
The Shire

Jun 3 2010, 9:21pm


Views: 59313
GDT versus Hobbit

Many thanks for your explanation.
Yes, hollywood is a complex system.
During the past years I dream for the hobbit movie, and for that reason I'm so furious about that situation.
The MGM situation and now the GDT leaving.


duats
Grey Havens

Jun 3 2010, 9:24pm


Views: 54347
I understand

I'm furious as well. But at the end of the day, the film industry is a business.


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Jun 3 2010, 9:56pm


Views: 102610
RE your issues:

1- The GDT contract?
We don't know the details, but it was originally for 3 years, which are almost up, and still no start date. Who knows how much longer it will be?

2- The Hobbit is not so important to GDT to wait a little more?
It isn't "a little", it's some unknown number of years more, and as others have noted, he has other commitments that he cannot ignore without destroying his reputation.

3- Perhaps he now somethig about the all hobbit movie that we don´t now, ex: there is no Hobbit movie
Well, a great deal of work has been done by a lot of people assuming it will happen, even in the absence of a formal "green light" to the project. The studios know that this movie has the potential to make a great deal of money, which the studios desperately need.

4- The leaving of GDT puts PJ in a dificult position to all people involved, GDT don't care?
I'm sure it's because he does care that he stuck with the project so long in spite of the delays.

5- He simple leave the place?
He has said he would stay long enough to help with the scripts. The scripts are theoretically finished; I assume this means help with revisions that may become necessary (as is always the case).

6- They left behind is "drawing book"?
A good deal more than that, I think. Thousands of designs, models of creatures, all the work that's been done at Hobbiton (documented by photos here on TORn), many man-years of effort at this point. And the scripts too, of course.

7- In movie business all people involved now that the delay in the production is "normal"
Delays do happen. Some are more serious than others. In this case, a studio that owns half the rights to the picture is in extreme financial and legal difficulty. That's a lot worse than the usual delays.

8- Think: If hapenned a little "tragedy" during the shooting, like great rain and for that reason they have to wait 3 or 6 months, he leave the movie???
Those are the sorts of delays that commonly occur in films. LotR suffered several such problems. Usually the response is to shift the schedule to parts of the project that the "tragedy" doesn't directly affect. As I noted above, the MGM problem is much more serious. Whether there are other difficulties as well, we do not know.






Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 3 2010, 10:33pm


Views: 65011
I'm confused about the three years versus six years

I know that PJ mentioned that in his part of the statement, but I'm afraid it doesn't quite make sense to me. If I understand correctly, when GdT first signed up for the project in April of 2008, the time line was to have the shooting start this spring, the first film be released in December 2011, and the second film released in December 2012 (with, perhaps an extended edition bringing the time line out even further). So that was a commitment of at least almost five years. Now that has been extended by one year, since the current plan is to start filming in November, release the first film in December 2012, and the second one in December 2013. So the appearance seems to me that the commitment has gone from four-five years to five-six years, not three to six. Still a significant increase, but much, much smaller than is being described. That is one of the main reasons that I can't help but be suspicious of this whole situation. As much as I respect PJ and GdT, what they are saying doesn't seem to add up to me.

Also, while you and others have said that his contract was for three years, I seriously doubt that there is such a specification in the contract. Of course, I haven't seen the contract, and it may well have some kind of a provision that gives GdT an "out" if the project is delayed beyond a specific point, but I doubt that it is a "three year contract" (nor does that makes sense given that the original time line was for much more than three years).

I do want to emphasize that I don't mean to jump on you, Elizabeth. This post is not meant specifically in response to you, but is simply an expression of the thoughts that I have been having as I ponder what has been going on and the discussions about it here and elsewhere. I am not meaning to spread any kind of rumors (unsubstantiated or otherwise), or to call anyone a liar. I do hope that we get some more specific explanations that help clear up these questions soon, although I don't really expect that we will ever know the full truth.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jun 3 2010, 10:47pm


Views: 50206
I assume PJ was speaking off-hand and not being precise.

I am sure a more detailed description will be forthcoming.

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.





Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 3 2010, 10:55pm


Views: 57130
Not being precise is one thing,

being off by this much is another altogether.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2010, 11:01pm


Views: 61915
"we have to wait so many days"

because GdT probably has a lot going on right now
his top priority probably isn't explaining his decision to a fan site


Faithless is he who says farewell when the road darkens


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jun 3 2010, 11:22pm


Views: 96126
He did say this week...//

 

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.





Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2010, 11:26pm


Views: 50117
yes, I know he did

and there are still days left in this week

I would guess that it's a high enough priority that it will get done
but then again, I don't know any more about GdT's priorities than anybody else on this board (except GdT of course)


Faithless is he who says farewell when the road darkens


pasi
The Shire

Jun 3 2010, 11:31pm


Views: 57868
hobbit movie GDT

Again , many thanks for your time and explanations.

I understand that there is stronge reason for GDT doing what he do, and of course that "time" is very important to directors such GDT.
I lived in Portugal and the movie business is my country is a "passion"
The directors in Portugal love the films like the sons.
1- What I mead for the GDT contract, is: The GDT made the contract with who? of course that we don´t now, I cannot understand a major studio like WB or MGM doing a contract without a clause prevent a situation like this, and we all knew MGM situation.
2- I insist that the Hobbit is just another movie to GDT, not a passion like PJ had with LOTR.
3- I think GDT knew whats gone hapened with the hobbit movie...
4- Yes, but GDT during this time do many others thinks, promoting movies, write books, and so one. He travels for many places, festivals and other kind of promotion. I have some dificulties in acept the "time" for a god reason to leave the hobbit. He try to negociate the others projects that he have im hands?( of course that is dificult to now)
5- Please... If we knew PJ, the next script revision is going to be made by the next director.
6- The designs, model and others drawings belongs to the producers, again I like to "see" the contract.
7 - Of course that one part of the deals is in trouble: The studio..."half studio". Wy don´t prevent the delais situation? It can hapenned.
8- Many movies have delais in the shooting, "Apocalipse Now" and others. but I understand that is a diferent situation.

In the past I agree with the choice of GDT for the Hobbit director, but for all reason that he had, he ( sorry for this ) in fact leave the hobbit in a bad situation.

If PJ cannot find a director, and it's not easy knowing what GDT left behind, he have to negociated with a lot of peolpe to direct the movie... or stop the all production.

Best


Pipe Dream
Gondor


Jun 3 2010, 11:34pm


Views: 54502
-Most Likely


In Reply To
I want to hear from Peter Jackson and anyone else involved as well. Even then we may never know all of the story.



I've been secretly keeping my fingers crossed that this may have in fact been a ploy to pressure the studios into a greenlight sooner then later...however unlikely and absurd it is...I'm still hoping they may lure GDT back.


pasi
The Shire

Jun 3 2010, 11:39pm


Views: 96259
hobbit movie GDT

   
Many thanks for your explanation and help Voronwe_the_faithful and Elisabeth
Best
pasi.


pasi
The Shire

Jun 3 2010, 11:43pm


Views: 98302
hobbit movie GDT

In fact it can happened.


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jun 3 2010, 11:53pm


Views: 59709
Eucatastrophy...my secret wish also...//

 

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.





pasi
The Shire

Jun 3 2010, 11:54pm


Views: 56773
hobbit movie GDT

In fact this fan site is more important in this all business than you think, my friend.
If you read the "Frodo Franchise" you understand the logical of the fan sites in the movie business, and the circulation of information. The speed of the information is fantastic as we all now. And GdT use this fan site to leave the first peace of the game. There is a book from a man called Manuel Castells - " A sociedade em rede" ( The net society) that explain the importance of the net and the circulation of information in our society
best
pasi


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jun 4 2010, 12:29am


Views: 52679
Its that Hobbit years versus Human years thingy.//

 

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.





Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Jun 4 2010, 12:30am


Views: 51966
maybe we just need to post it on the Eucatastrophy thread

if we say it happened, then it must have... right? Wink
yeah, I just decide to believe that's how it works Tongue


Faithless is he who says farewell when the road darkens


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 4 2010, 1:19am


Views: 53046
Just speculation, but perhaps

it means that GDT originally committed to be living in NZ for three years - long enough to get through pre-production and the main directing part of things and then the editing could be done remotely or by "commuting" at intervals? It could be the living-in-NZ part of this that is really causing the crunch, if his other commitments will require him to be in a different hemisphere for substantial chunks of time. Maybe he just can't afford to be that far away for an indefinite (and increasing) period of time waiting on a greenlight.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jun 4 2010, 1:25am


Views: 49440
This seems well thought out and reasonable

and (since it is my leading theory as to what happened) I do agree that it is a good explanation. SlySly

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.





Elizabeth
Half-elven


Jun 4 2010, 3:01am


Views: 51131
Three, four, six, ...

Ok, I've been doing a little archaeology.

In April, 2008, GdT was officially announced as director, with plans to spend four years in NZ. No release schedule mentioned, and it's unclear when this period was to start/started, though the article said he wasn't leaving "immediately" (HBII was scheduled to open in July).

Prior to that, dates of 2010/2011 had been mentioned, but the GdT announcement was delayed by the writer's strike, and in the various 2008 discussions it was assumed that it would slip to 2011/2012.

Assuming the del Toro family (he was talking about the whole family going) moved in fall/winter 2008, 4 years would be fall 2012. And it's been recently mentioned that he'd been there 2 years.

If the current release schedule is now 2012/13 (which seems plausible) and he had to be there the whole time, 2008-2013 would be 5 years, not six. But it isn't green-lit yet, so ...

My guess is they're all throwing numbers off the tops of their heads and it isn't worth trying to pin down too much. Bottom line: it's going to be a lot longer than originally planned, and GdT is a director in great demand who can't afford to sit on the shelf.






Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jun 4 2010, 3:06am


Views: 44803
Good diggin'

I think your evaluation is spot on. You know "throwing numbers off the tops of their heads".

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.





Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 4 2010, 4:25am


Views: 48614
In my experience as an attorney

First of all thanks, for digging up that information. The bottom line is that it pretty much is a delay of one year at this point, not three years as PJ indicated. In my experience, when people are "throwing numbers off the top of their heads" it usually is because they are tying to hide something. Particularly when the numbers differ from the reality as much as they do here.

But maybe this will be the exception that proves the rule.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Jun 4 2010, 7:06am


Views: 49764
It's the open-endedness that's the problem.

The project isn't green-lit. No one seems to know when it will be. MGM is still in crisis and will be for some indeterminate time. Whatever other issues are holding it up, we cannot know. All spring there was talk of shooting starting this summer; now there's talk of November, but who knows? No one can now say what the schedule is, and insofar as GdT is a director in much demand, with contracts and projects in his pipeline, I don't see how we can criticize him for not being willing to commit to some indefinite term of indenture to a project, however attractive it may be.

He has probably come to the point where as much script development and design work has been done that can be done without that green light, and if it's really delayed indefinitely, it doesn't matter whether the delay is one year or three, it's time to move on.






Elizabeth is the TORnsib formerly known as 'erather'


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jun 4 2010, 10:35am


Views: 52559
That's exactly what the TORn press release said

“The bottom line is that Guillermo just didn’t feel he could commit six years to living in New Zealand, exclusively making these films, when his original commitment was for three years."


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jun 4 2010, 10:40am


Views: 46783
Excellent, Elizabeth

I agree that the six years comment isn't a complete stretch considering the movies haven't been greenlit yet.

Great summary!


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 4 2010, 1:33pm


Views: 45059
We also don't know

how much the timeline might have been extended as the scripts were being written. Since the time GdT was hired the filming has been increased as the project increased from one movie to two. The time hasn't doubled, but that means more scenes have to be shot, more editing and two cinema releases and press tours.

sample


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 4 2010, 2:30pm


Views: 49808
That's not correct

One thing that we know for sure about GdT's contract was that it was for two movies, not for one. From the beginning. The difference was that it changed from one Hobbit and one bridge to two Hobbit films, but that certainly wouldn't account for the increases you are talking about. If anything, it would make the shooting smoother, since it is all one consecutive story. But the announcement when he was first hired was that he was hired to direct two movies. So that is not part of the equation.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 4 2010, 2:36pm


Views: 87654
It's not the six years that I think is a stretch, its the three years

It seems clear to me from my memory of events -- and from Elizabeth's research -- that GdT's commitment has always been for closer to five years than three years. I agree that the open-endedness of the situation may be the problem, but that has been the case for some time, and by all evidence available to us, it is likely to be cleared up soon. Unless there is something we don't know that suggests that that is not the case. However, if our new friend BoB is telling the truth about his impending audition, that would suggest that things continue to be on track; if things really were that open-ended I doubt that they would be holding auditions for major roles. It just doesn't make sense to me that this would happen now solely because of the greenlight delay.

But I hope to be conclusively proven wrong.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jun 4 2010, 2:49pm


Views: 47983
If Universal was starting to put the heat on about GdT's commitment to them

it certainly could have caused problems.

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.





(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jun 4 2010, 2:50pm)


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 4 2010, 2:54pm


Views: 50020
That's possible

Although I would suggest that that would indicate that he was over-committed, as delays to a blockbuster project like The Hobbit are the rule, not the exception. I would also suggest that it indicates that his commitment to the Universal projects were more important to him than his commitment to The Hobbit. I have no problem with that being the case, though of course being an obsessed Tolkienist, I would prefer that someone would consider the opportunity to direct a movie based on one of his beloved books as the opportunity of a lifetime.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jun 4 2010, 3:10pm


Views: 49134
Aha. I see where you're coming from now

You're saying it's not like he had three extra years of commitment all along - more like 5-ish. I do see your point and I think it's' a good one.

On your other point, I think one thing is for sure: there are undoubtedly *many* things going on behind the scenes that we don't know about. Perhaps there are windows of opportunity for GDT that have shifted since 2008; something akin to losing the rights to do a project if it's not started within a certain time frame, (not unlike the right to the LOTR and Hobbit movies). We can only speculate at this point, and speculate we will (a la macfalk's comment yesterday). Laugh

The casting has been limping along for months now with no greenlight, so I'm not sure that's the best barometer to use to assess whether things are still on track, and I personally don't think they're still what can be called 'on track.'

My gut feel is that, in addition to some things going on that we may never know, it all boils down to the MGM quagmire. Yes, the films have the potential to make a lot of money. But, as we all know, it takes money to make money and to start a big undertaking like this, it's all about cash flow. Cash outflow to be precise. No prudent investor/business/studio is going to shell out hundreds of millions of dollars to film The Hobbit, only to have it sit in the can on a shelf somewhere because the company with the rights to distribute it (or what's left of the company) is tied up in legal limbo.

Which brings me to one last point I agree with you on - I hope I'm proven wrong! Smile


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar

(This post was edited by Altaira on Jun 4 2010, 7:24pm)


pasi
The Shire

Jun 4 2010, 3:57pm


Views: 48174
Passion for Tolkien

Dear Voronwe_the_faithful as always you have the correct answers for this kindy of things, I remember very well your past explanation about the PJ versus New Line.

My point of view since the beginning is about the contract and what you have just write:

"I would prefer that someone would consider the opportunity to direct a movie based on one of his beloved books as the opportunity of a lifetime."

And if that is the case (commitment to the Universal projects) , OK, but GdT need to admit it for the sucess of the future Hobbit production.

This days we saw much "noise" in the internet, and is not so good for all production, MGM and WB.

If GdT wait, perhaps 1 or 2 months I supose that all things can be resolve.

I think from the noticies that I have just saw in the net, that the MGM problem can be resolve very soon.

Best
pasi


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 4 2010, 4:24pm


Views: 46343
Thank you for your kind words

I do want to emphasize that I continue to have the utmost respect for Guillermo del Toro, and I respect his decision. If I am particularly dissappointed by it, it is because I have been so impressed by the comments that he has made here and elsewhere which show me that he does have a strong understanding of what makes The Hobbit in particular so beloved. That is why losing him from this project is so hard to take.

In any event, I wish him only the very best in all of his future endeavors, regardless of what we do or don't learn about this sad chapter.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


pasi
The Shire

Jun 4 2010, 4:32pm


Views: 46183
GdT a great direct

Of course that agree with you and I also think that GdT is a great director, but at this time I have to care about the future of the Hobbit movie.

Perhaps I will remember GdT in the extras of the DVD's
Best
pasi


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jun 4 2010, 7:20pm


Views: 44870
It just boils down to one big (insert expletive of choice) mess! //

 

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.





Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Jun 4 2010, 7:34pm


Views: 48135
I feel like the tracks were lost long ago

but that hasn't stopped them from trying to move forward

I picture the train being pushed on the ground, trying to move it forward, even though you can't go as fast if you're off of the tracks, and also trying to find the tracks again so that production can go full-steam ahead
And now the conductor has been lost...


Faithless is he who says farewell when the road darkens

(This post was edited by Oiotári on Jun 4 2010, 7:34pm)


Theodred
Lorien


Jun 4 2010, 8:50pm


Views: 44905
I'm still asking myself:

Why did GdT have to leave? He could also leave New Zealand for the time being and return the moment they announced the green light. In that period, he could then make a start with his other movie projects, and in the meantime deliberate with PJ and his team in NZ when the situation changed, and then return. Now he left, I guess there will come some others of the crew who also will leave (eventually), and maybe even some actors will lose their interest in TH, leading to the situation that in the end hope abandons PJ and he will decide to abort and pull the plug out of TH, leaving the entire project DEAD...

http://dehobbithyve.hyves.nl/

(This post was edited by Theodred on Jun 4 2010, 8:53pm)


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 4 2010, 9:06pm


Views: 47506
Regardless, we still don't know

how much the scripts changed the plans for shooting.

sample


pasi
The Shire

Jun 4 2010, 9:11pm


Views: 43962
Hobbit project in trouble

I agree with you.
Yes, this is the correct point.
Now I have the feeling that the Hobbit project could be in serious trouble:
1- Because the MGM problems (principal reason)
2- GdT leaving the project
3- All crises in Hollywood
4- Great expectation could produce a great fall
5- The old age of Ian (Gandalf)
6- Saultz Zents, is looking...
7- The PJ isolate as a producer
8- The pressure of the fans (like myself)
Best
pasi


squire
Half-elven


Jun 4 2010, 9:18pm


Views: 71549
It was always going to be two movies

I have never seen anything about The Hobbit project - as a project, so to speak - ever being anything but two films. Sure, there was the idea of The Hobbit as one film, but it was unbreakably joined in the same production cycle to the "bridge film" which would "fill in" the adventure between the events of The Hobbit and the events of The Lord of the Rings. I even think that Del Toro was hired on the assumption that he would make those two films. If I remember, Jackson then announced only a few months after Del Toro came on board, that they had officially abandoned the bridge film concept, and would henceforth be working on the project as a two-film production of just The Hobbit story. Del Toro suggested that it was he who convinced Jackson and the writers that that was the way to go simply on the basis of the length and complexity of The Hobbit book. (Unconvincingly, as far as I'm concerned. It's called "adaptation". You abridge the book to make it fit the film format. Only if you are already under contract to produce two blockbuster films, and you find that the concept of one of them is fatally flawed, do you decide that the book "has to" be filmed as two features!)

Still, as much as I regret Jackson's initial thoughtless impulse to commit to two films, which will now result in a bloated mega-Hobbit, I can't say that that is the reason for the present debacle. MGM's problems transcend relatively minor bad decisions like a two-film "prequel" to LotR. On the other hand, were this project to be just one film right now, it's conceivable that Del Toro would still be hanging in there, knowing he had only one film to shoot, edit and promote in the 18 months after a greenlight.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Footeramas: The 3rd TORn Reading Room LotR Discussion; and "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
squiretalk introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Theodred
Lorien


Jun 4 2010, 9:48pm


Views: 89411
A few days ago I've read again the interview in the June 2009 Empire's edition,

and after I've read the article and watched the photo's, filled with lots of fun, humour, passion and enthusiasm, I've wondered: Where did it all go wrong? At that time, everybody was enjoying themselves about two upcoming Hobbit-movies, and they all eagerly wanted to return to Middle-Earth, but now...?? Frown How did it ever came so far??? It really makes my stomach hurt...


Code


http://dehobbithyve.hyves.nl/

(This post was edited by Theodred on Jun 4 2010, 9:56pm)


R11
Lorien

Jun 4 2010, 10:13pm


Views: 49068
Thanks for posting those scans

I'd never seen the article previously. You're right.... it sounded so great... Hopefully it still will be whenever the project eventually gets done (assuming it does...).


ron


shadowdog
Rohan

Jun 4 2010, 10:29pm


Views: 46416
Because

If a director has an opening in his schedule for a certain time period to direct a film and that film gets delayed month after month after month and he has no idea how long the delays will late, he CAN'T just tell the other scheduled movies that he will show up for an unknown period of time until he has to leave in the middle of shooting THAT film for 3 or 4 years to get back to the first film. What about the actors and others involved in the film that he will start and walk away from? Universal doesn't care about MGMs problems. They are in business to make money. If GDT tries to tell them that he will film part of their films that he has committed to film but that he will stop in the middle for years to do the Hobbit movies he will be legal toast.


Elven
Valinor


Jun 6 2010, 12:00am


Views: 47637
Pssst VtF ...

You probably have seen these?
I was curious of the dates and the those involved ...so I had a dig around -
They may be of no use, I just thought they were interesting ... all that legal wheeling and dealing Wink
Im glad they're not my repayment documents Laugh

http://www.faqs.org/...RM4/p17136exv4w1.htm


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 6 2010, 12:13am


Views: 55544
I'm afraid I'm not sure what point you are trying to make

Perhaps if you can direct me to a particular place in these interminable documents that sheds some light on the issue of GdT leaving I could comment about it. Otherwise, I'm afraid I don't have anything to say.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


shadowdog
Rohan

Jun 6 2010, 2:29am


Views: 50202
I thought it was

interesting that they talk about a company called MGM Mirage. It was MGMs over reaching in the Las Vegas hotel scene and the real estate bubble collapse that left them in this financial mess. Mad


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 6 2010, 3:02am


Views: 194761
No one questions that MGM's finances are a mess

I just don't see how that sheds any light on the issue of this thread. Doubtless I am just missing something.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Elven
Valinor


Jun 6 2010, 9:13am


Views: 49376
No your not ...

missing anything - I should have pm'd you instead Smile

Cheers
Elven


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 6 2010, 1:55pm


Views: 51706
You still can

It's always a pleasure to hear from you. Smile

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jun 6 2010, 2:25pm


Views: 84876
That really is the truth of it

and if they'd had their way and been able to work with their schedule... all would be well. They're not even sure they can start in November without MGM resolving their issues.

This had to be gut-wrenching for GdT to realize he had to change his direction (pardon the pun). It still is. I don't think he's any more a quitter than Peter is... but sometimes there's just no choice.


sample sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists


Guillermo
Rivendell

Jun 6 2010, 7:34pm


Views: 91392
As promised...

 
So, here I am again. As promised, I am posting a longer message before the week's end.

I have to thank those of you that have supported me from the start as well as those that converted along the way. And even say farewell to those that never did convert or believed.

I will miss Mr. Crere, the faith of Compa and Sir DennisC, the wisdom of Voronwe, the joy of Grammaboodawg, the support of Kangi Ska and so many, many others

Now, Pasi, et al- that is what is quite uncommon even on big films. Pete and co stuck to LOTR for years, I've developed films for years and I have shot many a movie on location... but rarely do you relocate for such massive amount of time specially when you have to do major ironclad agreements to put in deep freeze other contractual obligations with multiple studios.

My commitment to the project demanded enormous sacrifices both in personal and professional terms. The consequences of which will ripple for years. I relocated my entire life and family to New Zealand and first came on board in 2008.

So- while the cited delays, contractual complexities or obstacles, cannot be attributed to a single event or entity - you will simply have to believe that they were of sufficient complexity and severity to lead to the current situation. Trust me on this, Pasi- leaving NZ and the Hobbit crew is extremely painful.

As stated before- a wealth of designs, animatics, boards and sculptures is left behind representing accurately my ideas for Mirkwood, Spiders, Wargs, Stone Trolls, etc, etc and everyone (PJ, FW, PB and myself) has the same goal in mind: to try and ensure the best possible transition of the movie to a new director.

I believe these films will happen. Preproduction continues as we speak. The writing team of PJ,FW,PB and myself will keep moving the screenplays forward.

Perhaps even sooner than we may anticipate we will all look at the finished film and then- I will tear up whenever I recognize a set or a creature or a quirk created under my supervision. Everyone on these boards will get two movies. Me? I will be watching filmic family albums. Photos of my children from far away.

I hope you will understand how delicate the subject is for me.

I will drop by now and then, I will read the boards with interest and do hope to see some of you around at SDCC and many other places.

I am not here, however, to provide a blow-by-blow of what happened, but to assure you, as I have, that it has been the toughest situation of my life.

Beyond that- I am simply no longer an official voice for these projects. Be good, be well- and I invite you all to follow me into the next phase of my filmmaking journey.

Sincerely

GDT


dormouse
Half-elven

Jun 6 2010, 7:58pm


Views: 43915
Thank you

Speaking as a 'convert', all I can say is that I'm so, so sorry it has come to this. Awful for you to have put heart and soul into a creative project and then not have been able to see it through to the end.

Whatever you move on to, I wish you the very best of luck (and I hope you'll really enjoy and feel satisfied with the 'filmic photo album', if or when it happens)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Jun 6 2010, 8:14pm


Views: 41796
I do hope this is not the last we hear from you.

 I will follow your work for all the years I have left. I consider Devils Backbone & Pans Labyrinth great gifts. Good luck.

Kangi Ska

At night one cannot tell if crows are black or white.

Kang Ska

(This post was edited by Kangi Ska on Jun 6 2010, 8:21pm)


Silverlode
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 6 2010, 8:30pm


Views: 46320
Thanks, Guillermo.

I am so sorry it's come to this, and I really appreciate your making the effort to come and talk to us about it yourself. Thanks for the time and effort you put in on this project; I'm sure it will be all the better for having your fingerprints on it. It's also been wonderful to have you as a member of these boards, and you'll always be welcome here.

All the best to you and yours as you transition on to other things.

Silverlode

"Of all faces those of our familiares are the ones both most difficult to play fantastic tricks with, and most difficult really to see with fresh attention. They have become like the things which once attracted us by their glitter, or their colour, or their shape, and we laid hands on them, and then locked them in our hoard, acquired them, and acquiring ceased to look at them.
Creative fantasy, because it is mainly trying to do something else [make something new], may open your hoard and let all the locked things fly away like cage-birds. The gems all turn into flowers or flames, and you will be warned that all you had (or knew) was dangerous and potent, not really effectively chained, free and wild; no more yours than they were you."
-On Fairy Stories


macfalk
Valinor


Jun 6 2010, 8:39pm


Views: 48613
As another convert

We fans will certainly not forget your work, enthusiasm and your passion. Huge creds to you for actually popping in here now and then - I imagine that is very rare for a director to do. We were all very pleasantly surprised when we saw your first posts around here.

When we go and see the finished product - if it now is in 2012, 2013, 2015 or 2020 - we will all keep in mind of what you have done for these movies - scripting, designing, everything - we won't forget.


Best of luck,


macfalk


PS: been wondering this for a time:

Is there really much pre-production left to work with? I mean if it has been going on for 2~ years - that's a pretty long duration for pre-production I can imagine. What is yet to be done?

Pardon me for being so "nosey". I'm just bursting of curiosity. Smile


Patty
Immortal


Jun 6 2010, 8:45pm


Views: 47164
All the best to you, Guillermo!

We appreciate all you've done for the films and for TORn.

Permanent address: Into the West

Must. Have. The Precious! Give us the Blu-ray Ultimate Box Set!



Magpie
Immortal


Jun 6 2010, 9:00pm


Views: 43892
You leave footprints

...wherever you walk. Your footprints will be visible in The Hobbit movie, I have no doubt.

But you left other ones as well. Whatever tidbit of information about TH you provided was inconsequential to me in relation to what I came to sense about your character. You've left your footprint with me.


Quote
I hope you will understand how delicate the subject is for me.

I am not here, [..] to assure you, as I have, that it has been the toughest situation of my life.


I believe it with all my heart and I sensed it before you spoke a week ago.

Be well.


`Look not too far ahead! But go now with good heart!
Farewell, and may the blessing of Elves and Men and all Free Folk go with you.
May the stars shine upon your face!'

adapted from LOTR, Book1, Chapter 3, The Ring Goes South



LOTR soundtrack website ~ May 2010 : ROTK Lyrics Update!
magpie avatar gallery ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Jun 6 2010, 9:01pm


Views: 46337
Best of luck to you, Guillermo!

Thank you for sharing so much with us. It's been a truly priceless experience. To elaborate on what we said on the Home Page, we wish nothing but the best to you and your family as you make this difficult transition.

The good news is that new doors (and maybe even some old doors Laugh) are opening for you and we'll be cheering for you as you decide which ones to walk through.

*Hugs to you and yours*Heart


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 6 2010, 9:07pm


Views: 45447
While there is likely to be much that we will never know,

two things that we know for sure are that you are a fine human being, and a great artist.

I look forward to appreciating your work for many years to come.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


7777777
Rivendell


Jun 6 2010, 9:22pm


Views: 46406
Thank you for taking the time to post here--Wishing you and yours good health and uninterrupted prosperity. //

 



Dwarf for hire: Have Battle-Axe and Boots. Willing to travel.




"Something, something, something Darkside. Something, something, something complete."

(This post was edited by 7777777 on Jun 6 2010, 9:24pm)


Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2010, 9:27pm


Views: 48434
Thanks for sharing your thoughts with us

they seem like thoughts that would be hard (at least for me if I was in your situation) to put into words

Speaking as a convert (in the sense that I didn't really know who you were until you were named as director), I will miss the chance to see your view of Middle Earth. Though at least I can see part of it because of the design work that's already done.

I hope your upcoming projects treat you well

Oiotári


You can only come to the morning through the shadows


sharku
Rivendell

Jun 6 2010, 9:32pm


Views: 82213
Thanks

Thanks Guillermo - I too look forward to trying to identify your touches when the film comes out, having loved your previous work (which, even thinking about, makes me saddened that this project won't be under your direction any longer).

Best wishes for your future work: I shall be waiting in line for each of them!

ps. I am taking bets that your future projects won't be with MGM! Pirate


(This post was edited by sharku on Jun 6 2010, 9:33pm)


Eledhwen
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 6 2010, 10:00pm


Views: 47096
All the best, Guillermo

and once again thank you for joining us here on TORN. Hopefully you'll be able to stop by occasionally, not least when we're all squeeing over how brilliant the finished film is, as certainly your stamp will be on it.

Penguin walking


jschomburg
Rivendell

Jun 6 2010, 10:02pm


Views: 44569
Thanks for all your work and family sacrifice..

Always difficult to move your family, especially to a new country, then a couple years later to have to uproot them again. I hope we get to see your envolvement in the additional features when the movie is released on DVD / Blu-ray. Best of luck with your future projects!! I was very much looking forward to seeing your version of Middle Earth.


Alex Maglor
Bree


Jun 6 2010, 10:02pm


Views: 45672
Good Luck!

Thanks for all your work Guillermo.

Best wishes!!

Cuando vuelvas a Valencia te llevaremos otra vez a tomar una horchata a Alboraya!


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 6 2010, 10:02pm


Views: 86952
Thank you, Guillermo.

You have been wonderful to us from your first post! It is a grief to know you must leave the director's chair, but one can hardly imagine the grief you must feel in leaving all those things which now bear your personal touch.

{{Guillermo}}

"May the wind under your wings bear you where the sun sails and the moon walks."


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~


"I desired dragons with a profound desire"

"It struck me last night that you might write a fearfully good romantic drama, with as much of the 'supernatural' as you cared to introduce. Have you ever thought of it?"
-Geoffrey B. Smith, letter to JRR Tolkien, 1915




Starling
Half-elven


Jun 6 2010, 10:15pm


Views: 50937
Thank your for your care and passion for this project

We are truly blessed to have shared this time with you. Thank your for what you have brought to The Hobbit and also to these boards. We are lucky indeed to have you as one of us.
I wish you and your family the very best for the future, and hope that you will still be able to pop in here every now and again. There will always be a comfy chair by the fire for you. Smile

Go well.


Mishka
The Shire


Jun 6 2010, 10:15pm


Views: 45923
So sorry....

So sorry to hear that what should have been one of the highlights in your career, had forced you to sacrifice so much and ended up in putting you in such a painful position. I do not feel the need to question your reasons. Even now, you are so very generous to have stopped by so many times whether it was to keep us up to day or to put an end to rumors and false speculation or even to discuss something related to the creative process.
WHEN the movies do come out I will be looking out to the Mirkwood, Spiders, Wargs, Stone Trolls scenes and think of you and the effort you have put into this project and hopefully recognize your magic touch. Although I am very saddened to see you go, I am thankful that a part of your legacy will be included in these films and I will forever associate you to these movies no matter what happens and who will end up directing. I just hope that it will be someone who will match your creativity, originality, enthusiasm, devotion and integrity. Let me tell you, that person now has to live up to Peter as well as you and those are not shoes easilly filled.

Thank you Guillermo and good luck with your future projects! Evil


Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2010, 10:16pm


Views: 154176
Thank you for your post and for the aknowledgement

I think we have been incredibly lucky to haved had the opportunity to have you here, and you have been icredibly generous to share your time with us. One of the things for which I have always been really grateful is when a person, knowing he does not need to, shares time and conversation with others who look up to them, or who have only marginal stake at what is being done. That shows class, interest, humility, and the understanding that small as it may be, there is a connection. For that, I thank you once again.

I have posted a longer post in the previous thread, so I will be brief to conclude. I wish you all the best with your future projects, both personal and professional. I am sure your career with be full with plenty of success. Do think of us, both individually and as a community, as friends with a bond built on the foundation of The Hobbit, which is a great one at that!

I will always be proud to say I have had the chance to personally exchange points of view with Guillermo del Toro.

Until we meet again!

Compa

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!



Oscarilbo
Lorien


Jun 6 2010, 10:23pm


Views: 157907
Thanks ...

You`ll sill be part of my life, just as you where since I saw El Espinazo del Diablo from the first time, here in town, in México.
Your stamp will be in the movies, we know that. And I will forever be so so proud of you as a fellow-countryman.

Thanks for all and I`m so looking forward to see your next work!

and please... Be one of us. Be with us... as you always been.

thanks

"The World is Changed, I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air"


Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2010, 10:31pm


Views: 43600
you sound like you need some chocolate

Here, it fixes everything Smile (okay, maybe not everything, but it will probably make you feel better)



You can only come to the morning through the shadows


Oscarilbo
Lorien


Jun 6 2010, 10:37pm


Views: 79634
Just as...

Lupin in Alfonso Cuarón`s Harry Potter and the Prisioner of Askaban...
Does this mean anything from a supernatural point of view?? Shocked

Tongue

"The World is Changed, I feel it in the water. I feel it in the earth. I smell it in the air"


Elven
Valinor


Jun 6 2010, 10:46pm


Views: 40942
Thankyou Guillermo ...

For me, it has been such an honour to have your words of wisdom on the forum, to read about your visions for the Hobbit, the excitement and conversation you have generated, to see such passion and enthusiams - you are a true inspiration.

Thankyou for the post - I cant imagine the sacrifices you have made to get this film off and running, and how hard it sounds for you to leave. Once more you prove yourself to be a man of substance and vision - to let go must be hard. When we finally watch the Hobbit, I know we will see your creative stamp all over it. There is no loss, only gain - the Hobbit will be enormously in debt to you for what you have done for it, contributed, and continue to do.
I wish you fair winds - and much success. The world is your oyster now - or is that your Pavlova.
Thankyou so much.

Elven


deej
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2010, 10:47pm


Views: 40934
Look forward to seeing you at SDCC

It will be nice to thank you for all the great work you've done in person!


"...and back again."



Oiotári
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2010, 10:48pm


Views: 161524
what kind of supernatural thing did you have in mind?

I wasn't thinking of HP, but that works too I suppose

I just find chocolate helps when I'm feeling down


You can only come to the morning through the shadows


aranelthehobbit22
Gondor


Jun 6 2010, 11:26pm


Views: 153017
Thank you

I admit that while I always check the homepage, I haven't really been in The Hobbit section of the message boards much.
But I thank you for all the hard work and time you have put into the movie, two years is a long time. Thank you so much for dropping by TORn and posting. I hope this is not the last time your do so! Smile

Photobucket

'Help oft shall come from the hands of the weak when the Wise falter.'

Photobucket

"Yet in that hour was put to the proof that which Mithrandir had spoken, and help came from the hands of the weak when the Wise faltered."





duats
Grey Havens

Jun 6 2010, 11:44pm


Views: 131112
As I've said before

Thank you for the work you've done on the films, and for hanging in there as long as you could. It doesn't go unappreciated, and I cannot emphasize how sincerely I mean that. And on a more geeky note, if nothing else, your design for Smaug had better remain intact in the final product.

All that's really left to say is all the best, and good luck with your future endeavors.


Huan71
Lorien

Jun 6 2010, 11:48pm


Views: 43975
Guillermo, to have such a talented director...

...as yourself no longer able to be a part of "The Hobbit" is our loss...and another films gain. Pan's Labyrinth is one of my all time favourite films and i instantly wanted so much to see your vision of Middle Earth...maybe your touch will still be there to see? I certainly hope so!!
I wish you all the best for the future, and will DEFINATELY be keeping an eye out for any future projects that you become involved with (especially the smaller, more independent ones!Wink)
Thank you for sharing your words with us here at TORN.
You'll be missed!Evil


AranNZ
The Shire


Jun 7 2010, 12:01am


Views: 45001
With best wishes for the future and much respect...

Guillermo,

I was shocked and saddened to hear of your departure, but I am sure you had the best of reasons and would have stayed if at all possible! Indeed, I was greatly looking forward to talking with you and helping to bring your vision for the Hobbit movies to life as part of the crew (once the greenlight was given and I was able to start on it)!

I hope you will take the words of everyone here and, from me personally, the "Oathbreaker" model kit that I gave you at your book signing session last year at the Weta Cave, as tokens of both our thanks for the enjoyment that you have given us to date through your cinematic (and now literary) works, and of our belief that there is much greatness to come from you.

I wish you the best of luck for your future projects and I am very much looking forward to an exciting slate of films from you in the coming years! I will continue to hope that perhaps one day I will have the chance to be a part of your crew on some other project.

Kindest regards,

Aran

(Sculptor, modelmaker)


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Jun 7 2010, 12:14am


Views: 42370
I'm not saying 'goodbye'

as anyone who has been part of TORN's community remains within it, even if we don't see them on the discussion boards again - although I hope you will pop in occasionally over the coming years.

Thank you for putting so much of yourself into these films and for sharing your time with us on TORN. Best wishes to you and your family, Guillermo.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


rings7
Rohan


Jun 7 2010, 12:43am


Views: 45160
All the Best to you Memo

We'll all miss you.


Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea


Jun 7 2010, 1:19am


Views: 42650
Thank you, and all the best to you, sir

I look forward to seeing your contributions to the film, when it is released, and- now that you mentioned SDCC- fully expect to run into you there, as well.

Best of luck on your future projects.

My LiveJournal ~ My artwork and photography

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting
NARF since age 8, when I refused to read the Hobbit because the cover looked boring and icky.


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 7 2010, 1:27am


Views: 44990
I wish you all the best, and

the best for your family. Look forward to your next project.

As much as I am anticipating the Hobbit movies, I will always wonder what they would have been like had you been able to stay on. I've loved your work over the years and I'm so glad you were able to impact the design and the story of one of my favorite books.

Even though you are no longer an official voice for The Hobbit, you are very welcome to the message boards as a member of the TORN family. We don't let go that easily.

sample


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jun 7 2010, 2:23am


Views: 43550
*flying tackle-hug* You're a joy

and your enthusiasm and generous openness with us throughout this process has been incredible.

I'm deeply grateful that you've given us your creations & writing for the films. I can't wait to see your Smaug, Trolls, Spiders and other inhabitants. Personally... I'm going to have a little game going for myself where I'll make a list of everything I see of YOU in these films. They will always be a representation of your passion for this project. That has never been in doubt, and never will be.

Please do feel comfy with coming here as often as you want. You're an official sibbie, and we take care of our own.

Thank you... so much. Peace, now :)


sample sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists


(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Jun 7 2010, 2:27am)


Eldameldo
Bree


Jun 7 2010, 2:49am


Views: 48221
You've been wonderful

..and you will be missed. Thankfully your touch will be more than present in these movies.
Will watch for your other projects and I know we will enjoy every one of them! Thank you.


erugalathon1
Registered User


Jun 7 2010, 2:50am


Views: 42054
Thanks for everything.

Thanks for all your hard work. Can't wait to see what your next project is.Wink


Ethel Duath
Half-elven


Jun 7 2010, 3:33am


Views: 43819
(J.R.R.Tolkien: ROTK): "Go in peace! I will not say : 'do not weep' for not all tears are evil."

You will be greatly missed.


Garfeimao
Rohan


Jun 7 2010, 5:12am


Views: 41710
Hail and well met, dear friend

Guillermo,

Farewell from The Hobbit, but not from fandom, to be sure. I'm quite sure I'll be seeing you at SDCC and book signings and other events and look forward to whatever project you delve into next.

Don't be a stranger.

Peace, Love and Rock & Roll,


Garfeimao
The orange stripey One



My page in the Traveling Journal


MrCere
Sr. Staff


Jun 7 2010, 6:30am


Views: 43283
It is a little bit of community agony

I suspect people feel similarly to how I do, but it is personally painful for this all to transpire like this. Here is the project of a film fan's dream and a film creator's as well. The perfect collection of talent is seemingly in place and a series of events beyond anybody's control line up as hurdles that the project must overcome, eventually.

Time is the enemy. In film, always there is a shortage of time (and money) but here years are slipping away with not only no end but no beginning in clear sight.

Who can't sympathize with a filmmaker who wishes to actually make films rather than wait for the chance to make them? GDT (yes you sir!) is a creative force that is being held in check.

Circumstances have overcome our wishes but beyond all expectation, some level of community developed not only with the project but with the potential director. We knew to some extent, one of the voices behind the film. So we are disappointed. We are frustrated and we are even sad. (Over a movie!)

So here we are feeling a loss of a talent, a loss of our collective and individual vision of what might have been and a loss in our community but with understanding of the need to move, to step forward and create. (In fact, I bet many of us wish we had more of the attribute in ourselves that resisted sitting still and waiting for things to happen.)

So yes Guillermo, thank you. The ride was really fun! As you jump off our little trolley car, we wish you the best as our paths diverge but we will reunite with you in darkened theaters around the world as we carefully watch what you create and with a memory of the shared community. Like many others, I will read your books and view your films and delight in your storytelling.

I personally will thrill to climb the Mountain of Madness with you and learn what you and Chuck's vampire clans have in store for us or how Frankenstein will frighten us and teach us to empathize with a monster or whatever else you have waiting.

But for now, today, this kind of sucks. Evil

What doesn't suck is the effort you often made to communicate directly to us, unfiltered by agents or spin doctors or any form of the dreaded management.

Blah blah blah on and on I go. In short, you have our very best wishes in all your endeavors and our permanent thanks and respect for mingling with us in a way many in similar creative positions would never even conceive of. See you at the movies! (And SDCC for that matter.)

I have no choice but to believe in free will.

The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie

My blog




(This post was edited by MrCere on Jun 7 2010, 6:33am)


Doriath
Rivendell


Jun 7 2010, 7:21am


Views: 47447
Goodbye for now

Thanks for everything Guillermo. I will always wish for your version of the Hobbit. I knew from the second I learned this movie would be made that if by some miracle we could have GDT as director it would be the best of all possible worlds. And then, you were chosen. I couldn't believe it. Now, even though it would be a long wait, I had this amazing thing to look forward to. Now that has been taken away. I will try to retain hope for this project but it is difficult now and my heart isn't in it nearly as much now that you will not be behind the camera. The knowledge that there are many amazing GDT films to come is however helping me get through the feeling of loss and I look forward to all of your future projects!

May the road rise with you!

Doriath

The Trees will have their revenge!


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jun 7 2010, 9:30am


Views: 49824
*raises mug* Hear, hear! *mods up* ///

 


sample sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists


MartyB
Rivendell

Jun 7 2010, 10:05am


Views: 42542
Sorry To See You Go

All the best GDT. Your a fantastic person and i have a lot of respect for you. I wish you and your family the best for the future. I haven't seen any of your movies except Hellboy (1), but i'm going to watch the rest now.

Martin


ElanorTX
Grey Havens


Jun 7 2010, 10:40am


Views: 45008
Special thanks to your family as well

for supporting you in the big geographical and emotional journey.

I have a copy of The Hobbit signed by PJ. If and when the film appears, I will see your signature there in fantasy.

May your creativity and integrity continue to inspire us throughout a long and successful career.

"I shall not wholly fail if anything can still grow fair in days to come."


Earl
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 7 2010, 11:04am


Views: 43859
This is the end of a chapter, not of a book, the story will go on...

I'm the kind of person who needs closure - I've never been able to live my life having loose ends left about, and I needed some sort of closure on this whole thing - and what you've just said gives it me, in a way.


In Reply To
Perhaps even sooner than we may anticipate we will all look at the finished film and then- I will tear up whenever I recognize a set or a creature or a quirk created under my supervision. Everyone on these boards will get two movies. Me? I will be watching filmic family albums. Photos of my children from far away.


Knowing you're keeping up the faith in these incredible films makes me realize I must too. The road does go on... this isn't the end...

All the best wherever you fare GDT. I have nothing more to say. And I don't think I need to Heart



(This post was edited by Earl on Jun 7 2010, 11:11am)


Jazmine
Tol Eressea


Jun 7 2010, 11:51am


Views: 47292
Thanks Guillermo, for all of your input

I will continue to follow your career with great interest, thus far I have found your work to be a breath of fresh air.

All the best x



NottaSackville
Tol Eressea

Jun 7 2010, 12:09pm


Views: 44628
Thank you, Guillermo - best of luck to you! //

 


hamlet
Rivendell


Jun 7 2010, 2:31pm


Views: 58206
Thank you and best wishes!

Whenever I become anxious or frustrated with the snags and pitfalls that have befallen this production, I need to remind myself that those snags and pitfalls have to be infinitely more frustrating for those of you who are (or were) in the middle of all this. Good luck to you! I know that these films will bear your imprint, and I am grateful for that.


Idril Celebrindal
Tol Eressea


Jun 7 2010, 3:18pm


Views: 44233
Thanks for everything!

You've left some mighty big shoes to fill. I hope whoever succeeds you as director of The Hobbit will "get" the story the same way you do.

Thanks also for taking time to communicate directly with your fans on TORN. It's been a real treat to read your posts.

Namarie!


With caffeine, all things are possible.

The pity of Bilbo will screw up the fate of many.

Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting


Glaurung63
Lorien

Jun 7 2010, 5:12pm


Views: 43729
thank you

I am saddened by the whole situation, but understand your decision and can only wish you the best, and I look forward to seeing your next movie (any chance on a film version of "The Willows"?).

You rock, thanks for reaching out to fans, I enjoyed sharing reading lists on a post and discussing Algernon Blackwood!
Peace


Rivendweller
Lorien


Jun 7 2010, 5:33pm


Views: 45585
Your reputation is intact

I have not been on the boards here in ages, but I *have* kept abreast of the news. While it deeply saddens me to read of your painful departure, it is also understandable.

Your mark will still be indelibly stamped upon this project, and will be heard in the script and seen in the props and characters. Your love of Tolkien's story is not diminshed with this decision.

All the best to you and to your family - you are a courageous man and a dedicated filmmaker. Good luck. Heart


There's something of everything here, The Shire and the Golden Wood and Gondor and kings' houses and inns and meadows and mountains all mixed.

....and there are Elves when you want them.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Formerly A'amel from days gone by.


Oden
Rivendell


Jun 7 2010, 6:55pm


Views: 77966
Many Thanks

To you for your time, talent, energy, insightfulness and openness.

I will always wonder about The Hobbit movies that could have been. I will also be looking to see your mark in the theater.

Thank you.

Best wishes.


Galadriel's ring
Rivendell


Jun 7 2010, 7:16pm


Views: 47345
thank you very much!

I'm sure that we won't forget all the work that you have put into the films, and I think that you are amazing, as you are the only director on any film that I have heard of that has posted on the message boards of any fan site. I really hope that you will drop in again sometime! I hope you enjoy watching all the filmic family albums, and I'm really really really sad that you have to go!!


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Jun 7 2010, 9:32pm


Views: 51667
...

My feelings about all this, and my sadness for you over the decision you had to make, are impossible to express.

I look forward to your future work and catching up on some things I've missed (The Strain comes out in paperback here on June 30th). Nothing you do ever disappoints.

Perhaps when you are up around David Cronenberg's or Ridley Scott's age we can look forward to your version of the Hobbit, a remake if you will, or perhaps more accurately, the way it should have been made...

With deep respect and thanks,

Dennis Chadwick


galadriel
The Shire


Jun 7 2010, 10:26pm


Views: 49165
A sad farewell...

Dear Guillermo, I'm so sorry that things turned out as they did, but I'm sure we'll see your "fingerprints" in the Hobbit when the time is right, and we see it come to completion... It's too bad there were so very many obstacles...
Wishing you the very best in all that is ahead for you and for your family... Namarie!

galadriel


Vangalad
Lorien


Jun 7 2010, 11:20pm


Views: 51852
Your connection

with the fanbase and the willingness to drop by these forums to inform us about the hobbit , will surely be missed...


weaver
Half-elven

Jun 8 2010, 12:19am


Views: 49217
Many toasts in your honor to be found here!

We toasted you last Friday at our weekly "Fiesta Friday" gathering -- here is the link!

http://newboards.theonering.net/...=DESC;guest=15469052

Just wanted to add these good wishes to the replies here...Fiesta is one of TORn's nicest traditions, and you are welcome anytime!

Weaver




Alassëa Eruvande
Valinor


Jun 8 2010, 12:58am


Views: 47983
Thank you, Guillermo,

and all the best to you and your family. We really appreciate all you have done and wish you continued success.

Alassëa Eruvande



And suddenly the Ainur saw afar off a light, as it were a cloud with a living heart of flame.




Kelvarhin
Half-elven


Jun 8 2010, 2:32am


Views: 46606
Thank you Guillermo

Blessings & love to you and your family.

Kel x


One by one they faded, and fell into shadow...

~TORnado Babies~~10th Anniversary Thank You Cards to VIP's~~Laerasea's Travelling TORn Journal~
One book to rule them all
One book to find them
One book to bring them all
And in TORn bind them
In the land of TORnadoes...where the brilliant play


Finding Frodo
Tol Eressea


Jun 8 2010, 3:06am


Views: 48726
Thank you, Guillermo

I appreciate the work you have done and your communication with us here. Farewell wherever you fare!

Where's Frodo?


Kimi
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 8 2010, 3:26am


Views: 43736
Thanks for all you've given to this project, Guillermo.

And very best wishes to you.


The Passing of Mistress Rose
My historical novels

Do we find happiness so often that we should turn it off the box when it happens to sit there?

- A Room With a View


stormcrow20
Gondor


Jun 8 2010, 3:27am


Views: 48092
The Road goes ever on and on....

Thank you Guillermo, for all you have put into this project, and for the time you have spent here among us on the boards. It was very exciting to hear your comments and bits of information along the way. I was looking forward to seeing your vision of The Hobbit. And now, I look forward to seeing your influence once these films finally hit the big screen. We wish you all the best.

"Expect me when you see me."


silneldor
Half-elven


Jun 8 2010, 4:35am


Views: 50371
GdT

This decision must have evoked so much emotion and i know i cannot fathom it's depth. I can only say that you have added already so much value to the process and to our lives.

I believe the tide of TH will be before us all too, as you suspect and we can all take the joy of it together because i feel you are very much one of us in heart and soul.

I will wish you peace of mind in days to come and may it be ever fruitful on your road of inspired and creative ventures.

sample
''Sam put his ragged orc-cloak under his master's head, and covered them both with the grey robe of Lorien; and as he did so his thoughts went out to that fair land, and to the Elves, and he hoped that the cloth woven by their hands might have some virtue to keep them hidden beyond all hope in this wilderness of fear...But their luck held, and for the rest of that day they met no living or moving thing; and when night fell they vanished into the darkess of Mordor.'' - - -rotk, chapter III

May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!

In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo













Amandil
The Shire

Jun 8 2010, 5:46am


Views: 47129
A simple thank you

Unsure
Whatever some people may wonder and second guess about this decision, the bottom line is no matter how great or important a project may be, there is a limit to how long your life can be on hold for such a thing.

Mr. Del Toro -- thanks for all you gave to the effort. While it surely is a very sad moment for most of us, including myself, I'm sure it is saddest for you in ways we can only imagine.

The way this is going, who knows? Maybe you'll complete a few other projects and find yourself free again by the time The Hobbit ever gets a green light, though admittedly, as fans, we certainly have to hope things will work out much sooner than that.

Meanwhile, to us your name will always be in the credits no matter what -- though surely you will make it there more literally anyway, given all you've contributed.

All the best in future ventures.


hobbiton28
The Shire


Jun 8 2010, 5:53am


Views: 46952
Fingers Crossed he changes his mind..

All i can say..


Donry
Tol Eressea


Jun 8 2010, 6:30am


Views: 45155
Thanks

for keeping us in mind. I am looking forward to seeing your next several projects. Thanks for all the work you have put in on these films. I'm very appreciative you've put in so much time and effort to this project. There are those who would not have done as much with the current status of the films. To me that shows passion, loyalty and dedication to the art of movie making. Well done sir! Do what you feel is right! And do come back to join us when you have a few free moments!

What's the matter, James? No glib remark? No pithy comeback?"


phredegar
Bree

Jun 8 2010, 7:26am


Views: 80881
GDT in cameo

I'm sure that Mr GDT's contribution will have been startling; I remember being moved so much by Pan's Labyrinth, especially where the fantastical side didn't detract from - indeed it wholly fed - the emotion. I do hope that like Sir PJ he will be allowed cameos in the Hobbit mkovies - let's cheer ourselves up and think about where HE might turn up eating a carrot or whatever...!


greendragon
Sr. Staff


Jun 8 2010, 8:47am


Views: 48421
Farewell in all you do!

Thank you, GDT, for your messages to us here and for the care you have put into these movies so far. I won't repeat all that I wrote before, when your departure was first announced. The feelings are the same; we are honoured indeed to have had you in our midst, and I hope you won't be a stranger! Smile Knowing what it is to be involved in creative endeavours, I can imagine - but only imagine - how very, very hard it is for you to walk away from these films, and how frustrating it must be to see legal issues create this impasse. Please know that we all here (well, if I can take the liberty of speaking for the community in general! certainly I, anyway!) feel for you, and are saddened to see you go. I wish you every success and look forward to seeing your future creations - with a sense of pride that a member of 'our' community makes such wonderful art. Blessed be! Heart

'There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of my fridge...'

'You never know what will happen next, when once you get mixed up with TORnsibs and their friends.'



grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jun 8 2010, 2:37pm


Views: 47603
Oh Yes!! I'd love him to pop up in the story! *high five* //

 


sample sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jun 8 2010, 2:41pm


Views: 63678
AND, seeing how things

have gone so far, GdT probably felt it best to make the change before filming started. It would have been worse to fine it was necessary to leave after filming commenced.

Good Job, Elizabeth!


sample sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 8 2010, 3:37pm


Views: 46833
While that does make sense

I continue to believe that something more than the delays we are aware of led to this decision. Here is a good article in Entertainment Weekly that poses some of the same questions that I have been wondering about:

'Hobbit': Del Toro's explanation just leaves us with more questions

In particular, they point out that in an interview that they did with Guillermo when he was first signed up, he stated that this would be a half-decade commitment, which would bring it to the current planned release date of the second film (see here) and also that most of the other commitments that he has were entered into (or at least announced) after he signed up for the Hobbit project. So something happened to make him change his mind about this commitment. What that is, I doubt that we will ever know. Nor do I think that we even should know.

Fare thee well, Guillermo. We will miss you very much in Middle-earth.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


_V_
Lorien


Jun 8 2010, 3:41pm


Views: 43918
May the wind under your wings bear you where the sun sails and the moon walks

This is very sad news.

Why, there was so much website-traffic that I could not even log into the messageboards when this news first came out

I had the good fortune to hear Guillermo talk about his work for an hour last year at an NYC event (in particular his thoughts on changing the Wargs back to iconic Norse direwolves...I hope that stays in)....and I really, REALLY appreciated that GDT came to our forums to interact with us, even if just to drop hints and riddles (which were fun)

But the long wait until we're "home" at Lonely Mountain again, when this long long production break is over, will one day come.

Even dragons have their end.

Thanks GDT: before you came along, there were just two years of negotiations that went nowhere; as soon as you came along, actual scriptwriting and pre-production started and it really got everything on "The Hobbit duology" project moving.

ReVolution of Evangelion

"Pleased to meet you, hope you guessed my name, but what's puzzling you, is the nature of my game"


Formerly known on TORN as "Draug the Unspeakably Violent"



Mark Sommer
Rivendell


Jun 8 2010, 3:55pm


Views: 46958
Comments on del Toro's post

I have appreciated how Guillermo has been willing to share what he can with us in the Forum. He is a class act. Of course, many of us feel like Adam B. Vary of Entertainment weekly: Del Toro's explanation just leaves us with more questions.He compares Guillermo's post to the finale of the TV show LOST.

I also note that del Toro says he will continue on with the writing team "...moving the screenplays forward." Since PJ told us in April that the scripts had been submitted to the studio, it makes me wonder how much more del Toro has to contribute. He certainly won't have time to do re-writes during the shooting (a al LOTR), will he? Or has the studio demanded extensive re-writes before green lighting the project?

For further comments, I invite you to read my article on this in Examiner.com: Del Toro's Hobbit explanation understandable but not satisfying.

Please let me know what you think.

Mark Sommer
Hollywood Jesus The Hobbit Whole
Check out my review of the new Fan Film, Born of Hope. Born of Hope is first-rate film and great story


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Jun 8 2010, 4:34pm


Views: 47521
My thought has been

that GdT, realizing the delays were conflicting with personal or professional timelines, understood that not having a firm go date (green light) meant that he couldn't finish what he started. I think part of his decision to leave could be that coming to that realization, he deemed it better to leave now so the director chosen to finish the job would have the entire project. I would be worse if GdT had to bail out after the start of principle photography.



Quote
"...moving the screenplays forward."



I've taken this as GdT saying that whatever he's already contributed, they can continue to use. Sort of like Stephen Sinclair getting credit for his work on the original screenplay for the 2-part LotR films.

Neat-o article, btw! We do leave wondering, don't we? ;)


sample sample

I really need these new films to take me back to, and not re-introduce me to, that magical world.



TORn's Observations Lists


Mark Sommer
Rivendell


Jun 8 2010, 5:02pm


Views: 88620
Thanks!

Thank you for your kind words, grammaboodawg.

In context, the quote about "...moving the screenplays forward..." seemed to indicate to me that the group is still working on the scripts. That's how I interpreted it, anyway.



Mark Sommer
Hollywood Jesus The Hobbit Whole
Check out my review of the new Fan Film, Born of Hope. Born of Hope is first-rate film and great story


Buchanicus
Lorien


Jun 8 2010, 6:10pm


Views: 49218
Thank you Guillermo!

Thank you for everything! It pains me to see you go...the circumstances were not what was dreamed. But I know that the project will retain your stamp and your magic touch.

Thank you for being so open, and honest, and for speaking as directly to the fans as you were able to do and for always keeping us as much "in the loop" as you could.

The bright side is that I know we will see more of you through movies and books and all sorts of interesting and exciting projects (I've had The Fall on preorder for quite some time)! I know that whatever comes from your heart and mind will have passion unparalleled, and that is truly a gift.


Thank you.

TORn member formally known as ryan1976.


willowgreylock
Lorien


Jun 8 2010, 8:30pm


Views: 88682
Fare-Thee-Well

Dear Mr. Del Toro,
Your message was informative, encouraging, but more than
that, very moving, you really touched my heart, to the point of tears welling up in
my eyes. I could really sense your anguish over having to leave the project, and
NZ. All of your reasons for doing so are quite understandable, nothing can be held
against you for parting. I am sure you will be so very missed by all involved, to
include those of us here. It was so good of you to leave of us with this message.
Best Wishes in all your endevors where ever they may take you.

Sincerely, Willowgreylock FrownEvilHeart


Eruthurin
Rivendell


Jun 8 2010, 9:50pm


Views: 48161
*Tears* Thanks for everything Guillermo, it's all I can say.... *hugs*

Your post left me with no words.....

I'm still your fan #1 since "La Hora marcada" and I'll always be...... HeartEvil

:: All you have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to you ::
Tapatía Orgullosa de tener al paisano Zapopano en la Tierra Media!.... :D


(This post was edited by Eruthurin on Jun 8 2010, 9:50pm)


tennie75
Lorien


Jun 8 2010, 10:49pm


Views: 48592
thanks for everything you have done and we appreciated the respect you have for us here best wishes always//

 

******************************************
Of all the things I've lost, I miss my mind the most.


Glaurung63
Lorien

Jun 8 2010, 11:37pm


Views: 87033
my thoughts as well....


In Reply To
that GdT, realizing the delays were conflicting with personal or professional timelines, understood that not having a firm go date (green light) meant that he couldn't finish what he started. I think part of his decision to leave could be that coming to that realization, he deemed it better to leave now so the director chosen to finish the job would have the entire project. I would be worse if GdT had to bail out after the start of principle photography.



Quote
"...moving the screenplays forward."



I've taken this as GdT saying that whatever he's already contributed, they can continue to use. Sort of like Stephen Sinclair getting credit for his work on the original screenplay for the 2-part LotR films.

Neat-o article, btw! We do leave wondering, don't we? ;) I think GDT knew he had to leave for multiple reasons, and wanted to help place a new director...one that would take his ideas into consideration, but would have the helm from start to finish...just my 2 cents...



(This post was edited by Glaurung63 on Jun 8 2010, 11:43pm)


jedihillis
Registered User

Jun 9 2010, 12:31am


Views: 189807
Sad

To Mr. Del Toro,

I haven't posted on this site in years, but I had to come on to thank you for all our efforts thus far in trying to make The Hobbit happen. When I found out PJ wouldn't be directing it, I felt you were the best person to take the reigns. I am sadden that the current situation has forced you out of a dream project. However, I am thankful that you are making the best decision for you and your family. I truly hope that whatever influence you've had on the film in your time working on it, will be reflected upon screen. Thanks again and I look forward to your future projects. God bless.


Tintallë
Gondor


Jun 9 2010, 5:12am


Views: 79266
Deepest thanks, and may I add

that after seeing Pan's Labyrinth, which was brilliant - BRILLIANT! - I was extremely happy and excited that you would direct The Hobbit. Your departure is perfectly understandable, but you will be sorely missed.


Kyriel
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 9 2010, 10:28am


Views: 151286
*tears up* I totally understand your decision, and I think most or all of us here do.

I'm very sorry to see you go, but I know it must have been extremely painful to wait so long for that green light, and painful to make the decision you did. I wish you all the best, and I hope your memories of your time on The Hobbit will be more sweet than bitter.


Those left standing will make millions writing books on the way it should have been. --Incubus


pasi
The Shire

Jun 9 2010, 3:51pm


Views: 109714
GdT a gentleman

As we all suspect, Gulherme Del Toro is a gentleman and a great movie director, because only a man like this can spend his time in a fan site.

I hope, and I believe that you are in the premiere of the Hobbit movie.

But for now the next step for all Hobbit and Tolkien fans is help and suport PJ in the future of the hobbit movie, like we did on the past, in the case between PJ and New Line.
Best
pasi


Jai
Registered User

Jun 9 2010, 6:16pm


Views: 50553
Suggestion for GDT & Peter Jackson future "Middle-earth" projects: Numenor & Gondor ?

Guillermo,

It is truly a credit to your integrity that you kindly offered such a thoughtful and detailed explanation for the benefit of LOTR fans on this forum. Other commenters here have already responded eloquently, so in the interests of brevity I won't repeat the excellent points they've made; suffice to say that your directorial input on the forthcoming prequels will be greatly missed, but it's great that you're still on-board in a creative capacity.

Apologies in advance if you've already been asked this (or if other commenters have already discussed the idea elsewhere) -- I'm new to this forum and haven't gone through the extensive previous discussions:

Have you and Peter Jackson considered collaborating on movies dealing with any of Tolkien's other "prequel" stories ? From a personal perspective, I was thinking that the rise and eventual catastrophic downfall of Numenor has huge scope for a series of movies, possibly on an even grander scale than the phenomenal LOTR trilogy. The following is optional, but maybe it could be supplemented with one or more follow-up films focusing on the founding of Gondor & Arnor, the subsequent war involving the "last alliance of Elves and Men" and the defeat of Sauron, finishing with the death of Isildur and the loss of "the ring".

As you no doubt already know, these historical events are summarised in the Appendices of the LOTR book along with The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales.

Again, the visual and dramatic scope is absolutely incredible, especially as it would show Numenor and later Gondor at the height of their power and grandeur; it would also place the events of the LOTR trilogy into their proper wider context within Tolkien's overall story arc (including explaining the actual ancestral & "Atlantis" geographical origins of Aragorn's royal dynasty, who & what Sauron actually is, etc etc). The ending would also tie in very nicely with the existing LOTR films along with the impending Hobbit movies.

The depiction of the story would obviously have be very carefully thought-out, especially as some sections of it cover thousands of years of history (which would need to be selectively condensed at various points); also, maybe Christopher Tolkien could lend a hand with constructing the actual dialogue in order to realistically expand the often-brief (sometimes non-existent) dialogue summarised in the prequel books, so that it remains faithful to the style of his father's work.

Just a friendly suggestion anyway; thanks to your very considerate message on this thread, we're all aware of the reasons you had to withdraw from continuing to direct the Hobbit movies. However, I'm sure that you and Peter Jackson would do a fantastic job if you did eventually decide to make films about the events I've mentioned, and of course there are countless fans worldwide who would be extremely excited to see you both bring this part of Tolkien's Middle-earth story to life in your signature visually-stunning styles.

All the best,
Jai


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jun 9 2010, 9:06pm


Views: 92974
Christopher Tolkien is unlikely to assist.

He has stated that he doesn't feel his father's work is suitable for cinematic adaptation. Also, as J.R.R. Tolkien sold the film rights only to The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit, material from The Silmarillion and Unfinished Tales is not available. That means that filmmakers wishing to tell the story would have to rely solely on the LOTR appendices, and as you note, these contain a very limited amount of dialogue. The filmmakers would have to invent more than they did for LOTR films.

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squire
Half-elven


Jun 9 2010, 10:52pm


Views: 51702
He might like opera, though

I've often thought along the lines Jai has specified, except that the medium should be grand opera, not film. I bet Christopher Tolkien would willingly write three or four librettos "in his father's style" that someone like Howard Shore could set to music in a suitably grand but restrained operatic idiom. The advantage of opera is that the lyrics and dialogue are very compressed, letting the music frame the drama. Since there is almost no dialogue and very few "living" characters written by J.R.R. Tolkien for any of the historical epics Jai (like all of us) is fond of, the less invention the better. There's no actual movie in any of those stories, except what the screenwriters would invent. But Shore and C. Tolkien ... who knows what they could do on the stage of the Met or the Royal Opera?



squire online:
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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Jun 10 2010, 12:08am


Views: 47911
Doubtful.

I can't speak to Christopher Tolkien's musical tastes, but while he might permit such adaptations to be made, is it not exceedingly unlikely that he would himself write them? So far as is known, his only attempt at writing in his father's style (beyond a few short connecting phrases in The Children of Húrin) are some passages in The Silmarillion, preeminently a large part of the story of Doriath's fall. However, that work was a collaboration with Guy Kay who, unlike Christopher, has proven to have a great interest himself in writing fiction. And Christopher has expressed some regrets about exceeding his editorial capacity in creating those passages.

(For reference, particularly for those less familiar with the subject, here I meant to link to Voronwë's helpful recent essay summarizing Christopher Tolkien's work editing his father's texts, but I can't get the Hall of Fire to load, as has happened several times over the past few days. Perhaps Voronwë can supply a link.)

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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 10 2010, 8:55pm


Views: 46294
Here you go

A Fascinating and Unique Collaboration

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


squire
Half-elven


Jun 10 2010, 9:28pm


Views: 50849
Wait.. where's the fat lady?

Thanks for that! A nice review of C. Tolkien's lifelong collaboration with his father. I had hoped you were going to reveal an unfinished opera libretto, but I'm not really surprised at its absence...

A few quibbles. C. Tolkien's undeniable achievements as a scholar do not, I think, rate the elevated praise of your "Christopher then went on to parallel his father’s professional success in academia." The phrasing would imply to a casual reader that C. Tolkien's academic career was of the same magnitude and impact on the field as his father's. That is simply not the case, as you surely know.

Secondly, C. Tolkien did not "create" the maps of Middle-earth, as your description and Diana Glyer's review seem to say. Rather, he re-drew his father's "working" map manuscripts, to make them presentable and then publishable. The quality of his draftsmanship and the style of his cartography are first-rate, and well deserve any reviewer's compliments about their contribution to a reader's enjoyment of J.R.R. Tolkien's stories. But as C. Tolkien makes perfectly clear in his HoME series, it was JRRT who drew all the maps originally - it was the author himself who created and first drew up (piece by piece) the geography of The Hobbit's Wilderland, The Silmarillion's Beleriand, and the most famous land of all, The Lord of the Rings' Middle-earth at the end of the Third Age.

Quibbles aside, thanks again for such a considerate and well-informed essay!



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
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Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jun 10 2010, 9:45pm


Views: 50516
Well quibbled!

You are certainly correct on both points. I'll probably try to edit it to clarify those points, particularly regarding the maps.

I'm glad it wasn't ignoratated! Wink

I'm curious to hear more about your idea of Christopher (or anyone else) adapting aspects of Tolkien work to opera, particularly the story of the fall of Numenor. I think it is a very intriguing and potentially excellent idea.

I should take this opportunity to mention, though I suspect that you probably know this already, that there was an opera made of the Lay of Leithian a couple of years ago. See here (warning, the website is hard on the eyes).

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

www.arda-reconstructed.com


Eventides
Tol Eressea

Jun 11 2010, 4:58pm


Views: 44192
Thank you for all that you've done! //

 

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Eventides' Website!
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"I stepped out of my body to let God slide in; although I'm still dressed in flesh that I spiritually died in. Alive in Christ a new creation started breathin', Life exists and through this came completion. ... I'm not that person anymore (more!)! That's what blood was shed for! No longer a failure, livin' life more abundantly, therefore you'll never see me livin' less than victory."
John Reuben.

"Desperation, needing You; every last breath I scream for You. Shatter me into a million pieces, make me new. ... Break me, mold me, make me what You want me to be; I am Yours, for You to use, so take and replace me with You."
Family Force 5.

"Under a light in Bethlehem, I was sifting through the sand; the saline burned my eyes, I was looking for Your hand. I gave up on myself, and left my pride disarmed; I cried out 'I'm alone!' and found myself in Your arms. 'Rest in Me, oh, My love; I have loved you before the world began. Rest in Me, oh, My love; you'll never wander too far to reach My hand.'"
Showbread.

(This post was edited by Eventides on Jun 11 2010, 5:04pm)


M&M
Rivendell


Jun 12 2010, 3:57pm


Views: 160651
Good Luck, Guillermo...

Good luck.


Jai
Registered User

Jun 13 2010, 11:23am


Views: 175014
Alternative scriptwriters for GDT/Jackson Numenor & Gondor movies ?

Thanks for your kind responses, everyone (interesting idea about the opera too). I hope GDT reads my original post too -- at least so that he can consider my suggestion. I'm sure we'd all agree that it would be fantastic if a series of movies about the events I mentioned did become a real project at some point. Admit it folks, you're quietly getting a little bit excited just thinking about it.

Well, if Christopher Tolkien is unlikely to participate in the scriptwriting for any films, then (assuming Christopher doesn't violently object to the notion of any cinematic dramatisations full-stop, even if he has some reservations about the suitability) perhaps appropriate alternative writers could be the bestselling fantasy authors George R.R. Martin of The Song of Ice and Fire or Stephen Donaldson of Thomas Covenant fame. Both authors have openly acknowledged the fact that they have been heavily influenced by Tolkien, something which is already very obvious to anyone familiar with their books. I bet they'd happily jump at the chance if GDT & Peter Jackson ever approached them about requesting their services.

Given the very "adult" theme of Martin and Donaldson's own epics, especially the focus on some of the really nasty aspects of human behaviour, they could be particularly adept at dealing with the very dark subject matter of the escalating corruption of Numenor and its eventually disastrous fate; and as we all know, in the LOTR universe it ends up being quite literally an earth-shattering tragedy. Martin already has experience as a screenwriter, and his award-winning books are in the process of being adapted for television by HBO.

Stephen Donaldson and George R.R. Martin both have their own websites, including contact details (Martin actually has a blog too), so maybe someone should suggest this to them.....


nelson forero
The Shire

Jun 13 2010, 11:07pm


Views: 81811
strike 2 for peter jackson

You know as painful as it is to accept guillermos decision to leave the hobbit.
I do understand where hes coming from from a family point of view. 6 years is along time to spend in another country.

Also hollywood is so ridiculious with all this contract BS the lord of the rings all 3 movies made more than 900,000 million dollars with the success of the trilogy the hobbit will surely top it so whats the problem?? your going to make your millions!!! it shouldnt take 6 years to make a freaking movie I sure as hell dont blame Guillermo for leaving. I also think that if tolkiens world is so complicated to bring unto the big screen then is best left alone this is the second time PJ has had problems with studios the HALO movie which sure enough wouldve been a smash hit but it didnt get the green lite either! this is strike 2 for peter jackson I think peter jackson should invent his own fantasy world and bring it to life on the big screen that way hollywood will stop playing all these stupid contract games!


(This post was edited by nelson forero on Jun 13 2010, 11:17pm)


aragons girl
Registered User

Aug 25 2010, 1:22am


Views: 48629
Thank you ...

Always been a fan and followed your work and was thrilled you were on the Hobbit team , as i read this post im not ashamed to tell you a few tears fell on to my keyboard ....look forward to future projects.