The One Ring Forums: Off Topic: The Pollantir:
Reading Room Discussion Direction: "Forth, Torningas!"

Poll: Reading Room Discussion Direction: "Forth, Torningas!" Tom Bombadil 0 / 0% Sam 1 / 2% Merry 4 / 9% The Witch King 2 / 4% Elrond 1 / 2% Gandalf 2 / 4% Galadriel 1 / 2% Chapters: A Long Expected Party 1 / 2% The Shadow of the Past 2 / 4% In the House of Tom Bombadil and Fog on the Barrow-downs 2 / 4% The Council of Elrond 3 / 7% The Bridge of Khazad-dûm 4 / 9% The Departure of Boromir 0 / 0% The King of the Golden Hall 2 / 4% The Choices of Master Samwise 2 / 4% The Siege of Gondor 3 / 7% The Field of Cormallen 1 / 2% The Scouring of the Shire 3 / 7% geographical areas/cities/civilizations: Gondor 2 / 4% Arnor 1 / 2% Eregion 3 / 7% The Shire 5 / 11% Moria 1 / 2% 46 total votes

Ethel Duath Half-elven Mar 3, 5:11pm Views: 92694 Reading Room Discussion Direction: "Forth, Torningas!" I'm re-posting some of the characters we haven't discussed yet, along with some chapters/sections and geographical areas/cities/civilizations. But mostly, I'd like ideas in reply to this message, since every chapter, etc. will be somebody's favorite, so it's very hard to pick and choose what to include in this voting list. I've deliberately left out some things I think might be favorites in hopes you'll post your own here. What's your favorite? Let us know in replies and voting as well.

elentari3018 Rohan Mar 4, 4:19am Views: 92604 Filght to the Ford and the theme of bravery isn't listed so i would vote for that. If not the others i selected. How about grief, loss and passing of the old to the new as one theme of LotR to explore? "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo "And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series "He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love. He was a captain that men would follow, that he would follow, even under the shadow of the black wings."- Siege of Gondor, RotK

CuriousG Half-elven Mar 4, 5:38pm Views: 92563 Hobbits and the Shire While I wouldn't want to quash a chapter discussion, I wonder if we could group the early and late chapters of LOTR together to discuss hobbits and how they shaped the Shire and how it shaped them: what makes hobbits tick overall. (And why does Gandalf like them so much but no one else?) The discussion of bravery ought to be a great one. Putting on my thinking cap to try to think of something else. But I must avow that I am hurt, hurt I say, that you didn't include The Index as a topic for discussion, but I'm sure everyone would vote for it as #1 and skew the voting, so it proved wise after all. (Even if I'm hurt.)

Ethel Duath Half-elven Mar 4, 6:18pm Views: 92554 Ooooh, what a great idea! Shire-to-Shire. And, oh, dear, I am so sorry! Indices are gathering from all over the planet in protest (that ancient Greek tribe having been widely dispersed since antiquity . . .).

Ethel Duath Half-elven Mar 4, 6:22pm Views: 92553 Oh, yes, all terrific ideas! I really like you last one especially.

elentari3018 Rohan Mar 6, 2:54am Views: 92502 I like the "Evolution of hobbits and how their seed of courage had been awakened" because we see that happen with the four main hobbits and if we wanted to talk about Bilbo in the Hobbit also we see that happening. Frodo, Sam, Merry and Pippin have all evolved and matured and none has been unchanged from the Quest and it is so interesting to have a multi-part discussion on this. I think each hobbit should take a week at least. "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo "And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series "He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love. He was a captain that men would follow, that he would follow, even under the shadow of the black wings."- Siege of Gondor, RotK

CuriousG Half-elven Mar 6, 3:47am Views: 92496 That is a great idea. I look forward to it. I hope we can still have a separate convo about hobbit culture. There would be overlap with the Fab Four, but that wouldn't be bad.

elentari3018 Rohan Mar 7, 2:10am Views: 92468 would that be the first topic in our series? Are should we think of more ideas first? "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo "And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series "He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love. He was a captain that men would follow, that he would follow, even under the shadow of the black wings."- Siege of Gondor, RotK

CuriousG Half-elven Mar 7, 2:17am Views: 92461 I hope we can keep brainstorming, tho' my well is dry for the moment //

elentari3018 Rohan Mar 8, 1:16am Views: 92433 Doesn't fit into any category in here but-- Passing of the old and embracing the new order is one prominent theme in Tolkien's work not only in LotR but also in the First Age and i think we can talk about this for several weeks. 1) old rulers to new rulers (Rohan and Gondor) 2) Elves into the West 3)many characters yearning for times passed and that significance. Was end of Third Age really the end of all things ancient and good? 4) Gondorians yearning for Numenor and when early in Third Age there was more glory and power-- were the Gondorians waning in end of Third and waiting for ARagorn to revitalize the Kingdom? we do not know what the 4th Age brought but pondering about it and writing about it with ancillary sources could be interesting. "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo "And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series "He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love. He was a captain that men would follow, that he would follow, even under the shadow of the black wings."- Siege of Gondor, RotK

CuriousG Half-elven Mar 8, 6:27am Views: 92411 Since you bring up the First Age and old/new I think Tolkien sets that up as well: Finwe is killed off, then Feanor, then Fingolfin, while Finarfin stays behind, so it's the next generation that really runs the show. And then there's the arrival of Men in Beleriand, the Younger Race. They don't displace the Noldor and Sindar, but they do play important roles: Beren, Hurin, Turin, Tuor, etc. Even with Dwarves: their Beleriand cities are destroyed (or badly damaged? I forget), and many depart to Khazad-dum, "the newer, younger city" when reached a fresh zenith with the influx of talent and energy. With hobbits, the theme feels weaker, but Frodo displaces Bilbo, and his companions all eventually displace their fathers to take on authority. That's the natural succession in noble families anyway, but I felt like Sam, Merry, and Pippin have become cosmopolitan in their adventures and will provide the Shire with a more worldly, sophisticated view than their fathers could have, and they'll need this approach given the wasteland will give way to a renewed Arnor, which will require diplomacy and foreign policy that the Shire never needed before.

CuriousG Half-elven Mar 8, 6:35am Views: 92409 Should we tackle conservation/environmentalism? There are the Elven realms seeking to preserve the past. There's Bombadil and Treebeard trying to preserve forests and the rustic land. Hobbits mostly favor conservation, and Sharkey's "advances" were viewed as ruinous abominations. By contrast, Saruman's minions cut down trees just to cut them down. I'm not sure how to approach this for discussion, since what I've outlined is too obviously good guys and bad guys, and the bad guys just shouldn't have done what they did. But maybe we could talk about the deeper motivations on both sides and how actions and policies sprang from them. Or another approach might be about what the Valar intended, and how much anyone even appreciated that. Another aspect is the rather scanty details about Numenoreans vastly deforesting Eriador to build their big navies, which alienated local Men, especially of Haleth descent, and why did the otherwise enlightened Dunedain do this? This is sloppy brainstorming and not a cohesive approach to the topic, but maybe it will spark someone's desire to make sense of it.

CuriousG Half-elven Mar 9, 7:19pm Views: 92222 Loyalty I was thinking that's a strong theme throughout LOTR that we could discuss, with loyalty being of the foundations of the Frodo-Sam trek to Mt Doom, as well as the formation of the original Fab Four (hobbits), and then contrasting examples such as Wormtongue and Saruman. That's "small L" loyalty, but we could branch out to Loyalty on a bigger scale, such as between Elves and Men.

elentari3018 Rohan Mar 10, 5:53pm Views: 92090 Yes these topics warrant several weeks of discussion and it would be great to have someone leading this. There could be a month of only FIrst Age, a month of end of Third Age and the hobbits and then the Elves in how they have transitioned and lost in the 1st age and 3rd age- could be the same month. I would go with the race and how they have evolved. "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo "And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series "He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love. He was a captain that men would follow, that he would follow, even under the shadow of the black wings."- Siege of Gondor, RotK

elentari3018 Rohan Mar 10, 5:54pm Views: 92090 It could be the theme of conservation adnt i know there's a book about that topic Tolkien did hold that topic dear to his heart for what happened in Sarehole so i'm sure there are resources to delve into to talk about the Ents, their significance and tie it to Tolkien's own views. Has that been a topic already though in the RR? "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo "And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series "He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love. He was a captain that men would follow, that he would follow, even under the shadow of the black wings."- Siege of Gondor, RotK

elentari3018 Rohan Mar 10, 5:55pm Views: 92088 Maybe do loyalty and bravery at the same time for the Fab Four and in same month?   "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo "And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series "He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love. He was a captain that men would follow, that he would follow, even under the shadow of the black wings."- Siege of Gondor, RotK

CuriousG Half-elven Mar 10, 9:47pm Views: 92041 I was thinking about that before I posted Obvious connections and overlap with loyalty and bravery, yet they are too different things. And I was thinking about it in relation to the sort of B-level action movie common nowdays where a group breaks up (even the Avengers) and everyone rationalizes why they are going home and doing their own thing and don't care about the Mission, yet when the Fellowship broke when Boromir was killed, we never saw Gimli and Legolas say, "Good luck, hobbits, we're headed home," and Aragorn says, "Sorry, kids, but I've got Gondor to save and a throne waiting for me, plus Arwen, so see ya." Unthinkable, huh? They could have done brave things all the way home, but they were loyal to people who had been strangers. Not just in that situation, in most Tolkien situations. But with all that said, we could combine the two if that's what people would prefer.

elentari3018 Rohan Mar 13, 12:43am Views: 91643 yes that's a good point. THey should be different topic posts and weeks then. Bravery and Loyalty are different and we can talk about different characters to relate to these characteristics. "By Elbereth and Luthien the fair, you shall have neither the Ring nor me!" ~Frodo "And then Gandalf arose and bid all men rise, and they rose, and he said: 'Here is a last hail ere the feast endeth. Last but not least. For I name now those who shall not be forgotten and without whose valour nought else that was done would have availed; and I name before you all Frodo of the Shire and Samwise his servant. And the bards and the minstrels should give them new names: Bronwe athan Harthad and Harthad Uluithiad , Endurance beyond Hope and Hope Unquenchable.." ~Gandalf, The End of the Third Age , from The History of Middle Earth series "He knew now why Beregond spoke his name with love. He was a captain that men would follow, that he would follow, even under the shadow of the black wings."- Siege of Gondor, RotK

Meneldor Valinor Sep 20, 9:58pm Views: 87035 I don't know how much material there is, but I've always wanted to know more about Dol Amroth, Prince Imrahil, and the Knights of the Swan. Maybe there's more non-Tolkien lore available from video games, RPGs, or good fan-fiction? They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107