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The Sword of the King of Rohan



Urambo Tauro
Ossiriand


Mar 31 2007, 4:43pm


Views: 834
The Sword of the King of Rohan

Éomer became King of the Mark upon the death of Théoden son of Thengel.

As King of Rohan, what was Éomer's royal sword?
Did he continue to claim Gúthwinë as his blade? Or did Herugrim pass into his keeping?


In The King of the Golden Hall, Háma presents the King's reclaimed sword and says,

Quote
Here, lord, is Herugrim, your ancient blade

By Háma's usage of the word "ancient", I had assumed that its lineage exceeded Théoden's life, making it a royal heirloom, not limited to one owner. (If the sword was made in Théoden's lifetime, Háma would inadvertently be calling him "ancient"! Wink)


But in Many Partings, we learn that Théoden

Quote
was laid in a house of stone with his arms and many other fair things that he had possessed, and over him was raised a great mound, covered with green turves of grass and of white evermind.

By "arms", does Tolkien mean that Herugrim, along with Théoden's other armour/weapons, was laid to rest with him? Or was the royal sword left out?

How "ancient" is Herugrim?


elvenhobbit
Nargothrond

Mar 31 2007, 6:51pm


Views: 743
what i found out...


In Reply To
Éomer became King of the Mark upon the death of Théoden son of Thengel.

As King of Rohan, what was Éomer's royal sword?
Did he continue to claim Gúthwinë as his blade? Or did Herugrim pass into his keeping?

In The King of the Golden Hall, Háma presents the King's reclaimed sword and says,

Quote
Here, lord, is Herugrim, your ancient blade

By Háma's usage of the word "ancient", I had assumed that its lineage exceeded Théoden's life, making it a royal heirloom, not limited to one owner. (If the sword was made in Théoden's lifetime, Háma would inadvertently be calling him "ancient"! Wink)


But in Many Partings, we learn that Théoden

Quote
was laid in a house of stone with his arms and many other fair things that he had possessed, and over him was raised a great mound, covered with green turves of grass and of white evermind.

By "arms", does Tolkien mean that Herugrim, along with Théoden's other armour/weapons, was laid to rest with him? Or was the royal sword left out?

How "ancient" is Herugrim? Eomer's sword, would still have been Guthwine. There would have been a royal sword for Theoden and a royal sword for Eomer. Thus, when

But in Many Partings, we learn that Théoden

Quote
was laid in a house of stone with his arms and many other fair things that he had possessed, and over him was raised a great mound, covered with green turves of grass and of white evermind.

By "arms", does Tolkien mean that Herugrim, along with Théoden's other armour/weapons, was laid to rest with him? Or was the royal sword left out? means that Theoden with his royal armour and arms (his sword) would have been buried. As for the age of Herugrim, none of my sources have found the actual age of the blade.


Elven by name, Hobbit by nature

'Road lead ever on and on
down from the door where it began
now far ahead the road has gone
down from where all began' -FOTR-

and through all the world has changed
the ages come and go with time
and yet those remain unchanged
unto they journey westward
over the sea...


N.E. Brigand
Gondolin


Mar 31 2007, 9:08pm


Views: 720
What are your sources?


Quote
Éomer's sword, would still have been Gúthwinë. There would have been a royal sword for Théoden and a royal sword for Éomer. Thus, when [Théoden "was laid in a house of stone with his arms and many other fair things that he had possessed”, that] means that Théoden with his royal armour and arms (his sword) would have been buried. As for the age of Herugrim, none of my sources have found the actual age of the blade.



You may be right, but I'm curious to know what you're basing that argument on.

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Wynnie
Nargothrond


Apr 1 2007, 1:34am


Views: 711
Interesting question!

I checked a few of the usual Web resources, but couldn't find any definitive information about Herugrim's history or ultimate fate. The Thain's Book, for one, says:
"Theoden was buried with his arms, but it is not stated whether Herugrim was among them."

I'd think Eomer would have a soft spot in his heart for Guthwine, after the Hornburg and the Pelennor. But I agree with you that Herugrim seems to have been a royal heirloom, so I can't imagine it was buried. If Aragorn could have two Elendilmirs, Eomer could have two swords, couldn't he? Or perhaps Herugrim could have been given to Eowyn, considering that her sword " broke sparkling into many shards" during the Witch King encounter.



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dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Apr 1 2007, 2:14am


Views: 698
I like that theory

It allows for Éomer to continue carrying his own sword, and for Éowyn to have in her possession an heirloom to evoke her own ancestry as she resides in Ithilien.


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Alcarcalime
Dor-Lomin


Apr 1 2007, 12:11pm


Views: 688
Thoughts on the subject...

Would it have been logical that Herugrim would have been the royal sword of Theoden's line (father to son) and because that line was broken, his sword would have been buried with him? And Eomer's sword would then become the royal sword of his line.


Urambo Tauro
Ossiriand


Apr 1 2007, 1:11pm


Views: 685
Re:

Hmmm....
Théoden, the last King in the Second Line, never did get the chance to pass it on to Théodred.


grammaboodawg
Elvenhome


Apr 1 2007, 3:32pm


Views: 685
My thoughts...

I believe that the heritage and history of the Rohirrim would mean that Herugrim would represent the King of that realm... since it is ancient. It would especially be more representative of the power and glory of Rohan as it was used by King Theoden in battle when he was killed. The honour of the heritage of Kings and honour of their kingdom would be represented by that sword. Eomer kept it, and his own sword which is held in great honour as well, imho.



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