Our Sponsor Sideshow Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: TV Discussion: The Rings of Power:
So it begins. First teaser is live and the official title of the series is "The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power"

DeadRabbits
Lorien


Jan 19, 3:12pm

Post #1 of 36 (2021 views)
Shortcut
So it begins. First teaser is live and the official title of the series is "The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power" Can't Post

The Lord of the Rings on Prime just updated its Instagram feed with a teaser and a post that reads: "A new age begins September 2, 2022. Journey to Middle-earth with The Lord of the Rings: The Rings of Power."

The teaser shows the one ring being forged, with a female voice (Morfydd Clark?) reciting the ring verse.

Does this mean that the late Second age leaks that have been reported by The Fellowship of Fans have been smoke & mirrors from Amazon? Or perhaps that the timelines will be merged somehow?

Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought

(This post was edited by DeadRabbits on Jan 19, 3:24pm)


DeadRabbits
Lorien


Jan 19, 3:31pm

Post #2 of 36 (1963 views)
Shortcut
Official statement from the showrunners: [In reply to] Can't Post

“This is a title that we imagine could live on the spine of a book next to J.R.R. Tolkien’s other classics,” said series showrunners J.D. Payne and Patrick McKay in a press release. “The Rings of Power unites all the major stories of Middle-earth’s Second Age: The forging of the rings, the rise of the Dark Lord Sauron, the epic tale of Númenor, and the Last Alliance of Elves and Men.”

Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought


Eldy
Tol Eressea


Jan 19, 4:20pm

Post #3 of 36 (1915 views)
Shortcut
It might have been disinformation... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but I think it's at least as likely that Amazon is simply trying to emphasize the connections between its new series and and LOTR proper. The Ring-verse is recognizable to the average potential viewer; Númenórean names and imagery are not. But who knows. Crazy


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 19, 4:33pm

Post #4 of 36 (1895 views)
Shortcut
With such a subtitle... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I would have expected the show to place more emphasis on the middle of the Second Age than we seem to be getting. So far it looks like the forging of the Great Rings, the War of the Elves and Sauron, and the rise of the Nazgul are only going to be briefly covered.

#FidelityToTolkien
#ChallengeExpectations


FrogmortonJustice65
Lorien


Jan 19, 4:44pm

Post #5 of 36 (1883 views)
Shortcut
The opening musical chords [In reply to] Can't Post

sure sound like a riff on Howard Shore's "History of the Ring" theme.


Eldy
Tol Eressea


Jan 19, 4:44pm

Post #6 of 36 (1881 views)
Shortcut
THR has a quote from the showrunners... [In reply to] Can't Post

...which seems to imply they are attempting the cover the entire Second Age.

https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/...w-amazon-1235077310/


Quote
“This is a title that we imagine could live on the spine of a book next to J.R.R. Tolkien’s other classics. The Rings of Power unites all the major stories of Middle-earth’s Second Age: the forging of the rings, the rise of the Dark Lord Sauron, the epic tale of Númenor, and the Last Alliance of Elves and Men,” said showrunners J.D. Payne & Patrick McKay. “Until now, audiences have only seen on-screen the story of the One Ring — but before there was one, there were many… and we’re excited to share the epic story of them all.”


I'm ... not sure I believe this. Or at least, if they try to cover all this material, I worry it will involve a lot of compression and fusion of elements in order to fit it into a single TV show. Because, good God, it's a lot of story otherwise.


Chen G.
Gondor

Jan 19, 5:02pm

Post #7 of 36 (1862 views)
Shortcut
We've known about this shortly in advance thanks to this [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks to Japanese Amazon:

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/878600194520924215/933353662112202762/IMG_7815.png


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 19, 5:14pm

Post #8 of 36 (1844 views)
Shortcut
The Teaser Trailer [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To


"This video is currently unavailable."

Here's the video from Amazon Prime's YouTube channel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QhqGCPMfkNM

I'm assuming that we're hearing Morfydd Clark as Galadriel.

#FidelityToTolkien
#ChallengeExpectations

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 19, 5:18pm)


cats16
Valinor


Jan 19, 5:41pm

Post #9 of 36 (1814 views)
Shortcut
Well, well! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for sharing. And thanks to greendragon for her post on the TORn homepage that included info on visual effects legend Douglas Trumbull's work on this teaser.

Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




cats16
Valinor


Jan 19, 5:44pm

Post #10 of 36 (1807 views)
Shortcut
"The epic tale of Númenor" line... [In reply to] Can't Post

...did make me chuckle. That could be its own 10+ season show if one wanted it to be! Laugh

Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




cats16
Valinor


Jan 19, 6:05pm

Post #11 of 36 (1791 views)
Shortcut
So... [In reply to] Can't Post

It would seem that we're undoubtedly getting a start-to-finish telling of the Second Age, yes?

The simplest route, IMO, is to compress Númenor's history while simultaneously using the immortality of the Elves to your advantage as a storyteller - you can have a couple of Númenorean rulers cycle through (before arriving at Elendil and Isildur), if you want, while keeping Gil-galad, Galadriel and Celebrimbor in place without having to worry about characters aging in the normal sense. But I'd imagine these storylines to take place separately for the most part, as they do in the text itself, and being edited together similarly to how the earlier seasons of Game of Thrones juggled several loosely related storylines that took place hundreds of miles away from one another - and gradually came to coalesce as the seasons unfolded. GoT worked just fine on a storytelling level despite Daenerys not meeting most of the other characters until several seasons deep.

But now we've got some indication that they're looking to lay the bricks that lead us to the Last Alliance, ultimately. I wonder if the tension between Elves and Men will be heightened along the way (by increasing the enmity of the Elves, I'd say) after the rise of Númenor to make the Last Alliance feel less like a foregone conclusion.

Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 19, 6:40pm

Post #12 of 36 (1761 views)
Shortcut
Well...maybe. Maybe not. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It would seem that we're undoubtedly getting a start-to-finish telling of the Second Age, yes?


So far it looks like most of the history of the Second Age might be summarized in Bayona's 2-part pilot. It seems as though the main action of the series will take place in the time of Miriel, Isilsdur and Pharazon. But maybe the creative team will play around with the timeline.


In Reply To
The simplest route, IMO, is to compress Númenor's history while simultaneously using the immortality of the Elves to your advantage as a storyteller - you can have a couple of Númenorean rulers cycle through (before arriving at Elendil and Isildur), if you want, while keeping Gil-galad, Galadriel and Celebrimbor in place without having to worry about characters aging in the normal sense. But I'd imagine these storylines to take place separately for the most part, as they do in the text itself, and being edited together similarly to how the earlier seasons of Game of Thrones juggled several loosely related storylines that took place hundreds of miles away from one another - and gradually came to coalesce as the seasons unfolded. GoT worked just fine on a storytelling level despite Daenerys not meeting most of the other characters until several seasons deep.

But now we've got some indication that they're looking to lay the bricks that lead us to the Last Alliance, ultimately. I wonder if the tension between Elves and Men will be heightened along the way (by increasing the enmity of the Elves, I'd say) after the rise of Númenor to make the Last Alliance feel less like a foregone conclusion.


I"m hoping that we will not see the type of time compression that would make Celebrimbor and the forging of the Great Rings contemporaneous with Elendil and Isildur. I don't need or want Ar-Pharazon to lead the Numenorean fleet that ends the War of the Elves and Sauron, though I fear that might be the direction in which the show is heading.

#FidelityToTolkien
#ChallengeExpectations

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 19, 6:41pm)


cats16
Valinor


Jan 19, 6:46pm

Post #13 of 36 (1750 views)
Shortcut
Right [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess by start-to-finish I meant more "we'll start at the beginning of the SA and end at the end of the SA," but not necessarily a true start-to-finish all-encompassing version. But I agree it seems that the pilot is going to fit a lot in.

And re: time compression, I suppose a question is whether they intend the War of the Last Alliance to be the "end" of the show or not. I say that as I can imagine a build-up towards Ar Pharazon coming at the end of season 1, if they're looking to streamline things, and then the rest of the show leads us to the WotLA.

Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




(This post was edited by cats16 on Jan 19, 6:47pm)


Chen G.
Gondor

Jan 19, 7:06pm

Post #14 of 36 (1733 views)
Shortcut
The photography-nerd in me [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Thanks for sharing. And thanks to greendragon for her post on the TORn homepage that included info on visual effects legend Douglas Trumbull's work on this teaser.


My inner photography-nerd nearly fell off of the seat when I read Trumbull was in it!

It makes sense: Trumbull is one of the few people who still works on macro-photography, and when I did the live-stream with Fellowship of Fans, I said the last time I saw macro-photography was Tree of Life, which Trumbull worked on.

I'm still euphoric about him having worked on it.


Hasuwandil
Lorien


Jan 19, 8:39pm

Post #15 of 36 (1675 views)
Shortcut
A fitting title, if they removed the first half [In reply to] Can't Post

"The Rings of Power" was my favored title, at least back before the leaks about Isildur, Míriel, etc. being main characters in Season 1, but I think "The Lord of the Rings" added before it makes it a bit clumsy. I don't see why it needs to be in there. It's easy enough to figure what the show is about from "The Rings of Power". For some reason HBO doesn't feel the need to call their prequel show "Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon".

Hêlâ Auriwandil, angilô berhtost,
oƀar Middangard mannum gisandid!


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 19, 9:31pm

Post #16 of 36 (1651 views)
Shortcut
Ar-Pharazon [In reply to] Can't Post

Just to clarify: I do know that Ar-Pharazon does eventually lead the fleet to Middle-earth that ends up taking Sauron captive, but that is many centuries after the War of the Elves and Sauron and has more to do with Ar-Pharazon's pride and arrogance than with aiding the Elves or Men of Middle-earth in any way. I don't want to see these separate events conflated.

#FidelityToTolkien
#ChallengeExpectations


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 19, 9:33pm

Post #17 of 36 (1648 views)
Shortcut
Name Recognition [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
"The Rings of Power" was my favored title, at least back before the leaks about Isildur, Míriel, etc. being main characters in Season 1, but I think "The Lord of the Rings" added before it makes it a bit clumsy. I don't see why it needs to be in there. It's easy enough to figure what the show is about from "The Rings of Power". For some reason HBO doesn't feel the need to call their prequel show "Game of Thrones: House of the Dragon".


Amazon needs to keep The Lord of the Rings as part of the title for branding purposes. The name recognition is a key factor in marketing the show.

#FidelityToTolkien
#ChallengeExpectations


InTheChair
Rohan

Jan 19, 11:01pm

Post #18 of 36 (1611 views)
Shortcut
The story of them all? [In reply to] Can't Post

That quote seems to me to say rather that we'll be seeing the effects of the Three, the Seven and the Nine on their respective bearers. Which could tie in to many events from the second age.

It might also explain why there are Dwarves in the series beyond being friends of the Elves of Eregion.

I guess that some of the Nine rings may feature in Numenor, and the Three with the kings and queens of the Elves.

They might even throw in the effect of the One on Isildur, if the Last Alliance is the big bang they go out on.

Though my guess is in that case it will be some kind of compressed or out-of-time pieced together version of the Second Age events. They'd have no chance of covering the whole age, beginning to end.


(This post was edited by InTheChair on Jan 19, 11:02pm)


Archestratie
Rohan


Jan 20, 12:49am

Post #19 of 36 (1572 views)
Shortcut
Bleh [In reply to] Can't Post

The name is fine. The voiceover is fine. There's not much to tell from this. I am glad we finally get a name for the series, but other than that this is a nothing burger.

My Low-Magic Fantasy Novel on eBook/hardback: The Huntsman and the She-Wolf

The Huntsman and the She-Wolf on audio Book.


Chen G.
Gondor

Jan 20, 10:17am

Post #20 of 36 (1427 views)
Shortcut
Disagree [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
other than that this is a nothing burger.


There are definitely things to be derived from this. The music, although clearly teaser music, hints at Howard Shore's Ring theme.

IGN seems to believe the silver lettering is significant: perhaps hinting at the creation of the Doors of Moria?

A longer version of this - tellingly, Morfydd's voiceover doesn't cover the whole ring-verse - could be used as the opening-credits sequence: IGN seems to give off that impression.

The show has a slot on Amazon Prime, which (1) reveals this is the title for ALL seasons, given the way its styled and (2) has an age rating: "16+"

The appended press release definitely points towards the show trying to encompass all the major events of the Second Age, as opposed to focusing on any one epoch.

That's not bad, in a day.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Jan 20, 10:17am)


FrogmortonJustice65
Lorien


Jan 20, 3:11pm

Post #21 of 36 (1341 views)
Shortcut
I've seen the rating for LOTR on Prime listed as TV-14 [In reply to] Can't Post

That might throw a little cold water on the fear that this show is going to be a nasty, profane Game of Thrones (TV-MA) knockoff.

If that rating holds we can expect a PG-13 experience rather than an R-rated experience. That implies less nudity and ultra-violence.


Chen G.
Gondor

Jan 20, 3:17pm

Post #22 of 36 (1340 views)
Shortcut
TV-14 allows to get away with alot [In reply to] Can't Post

It falls somewhere between PG-13 and R. Look at what Wheel of Time managed to get through on a similar rating: bits of nudity and sex, lots of violence, dunno about profanity.

That's not a bad thing: I want a hard-hitting show.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Jan 20, 3:17pm)


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Jan 20, 5:43pm

Post #23 of 36 (1296 views)
Shortcut
Most importantly [In reply to] Can't Post

While I'm not particularly impressed with Morfydd's voiceover, the teaser video is very impressive looking. I think it is clear that this show will be visually impressive, and I am relieved to see clear indications that the focus will be on, as you say, all the major events of the Second Age rather than focusing on the end, as has been implied by some of the FoF reporting. They are not going to title the series "The Rings of Power" without a strong emphasis on the creation of the Rings and the resulting battles that ensue from that.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Lindele
Gondor

Jan 20, 6:39pm

Post #24 of 36 (1275 views)
Shortcut
Howard Shore Confirmed? [In reply to] Can't Post

It would seem. Amazon replied to an Instagram post that HS composed the music for the teaser. According to Nerd of the Rings on YouTube.


(This post was edited by Lindele on Jan 20, 6:54pm)


Lindele
Gondor

Jan 20, 6:58pm

Post #25 of 36 (1264 views)
Shortcut
Link [In reply to] Can't Post

https://youtu.be/F4jKpV4Kyic?t=292


wmsd
The Shire

Jan 27, 6:48pm

Post #26 of 36 (470 views)
Shortcut
“Before there was one, there were many” [In reply to] Can't Post

I wonder if the show runners remarks like that mean that the show will (at some point) depict 3 storylines: one following each race and how the ring recipients received their rings and got seduced or deceived.

As an example…

Storyline of the 7 rings
Develop storyline of Dwarf recipients getting the 7 rings.
In Khazad-Dum, depict 3 leaders getting a ring …the Longbeards (Durin character) and lords of the Firebeards and Broadbeam clans living in Khazad-Dum at this time . Mention the other 4 dwarf lords that got rings but don’t dwell on them since those get lost to dragon fire anyway. In the show , develop character arcs for their growing greed, finding wealth, but also eventual loss, and give them a reason to want to hate Sauron’s deception. Perhaps (speed up a timeline and) delicately convey that the Moria Balrog seen in LOTR was initially “disturbed” by this “delving deep greed” from these ring-bearers.

Storyline(s) of the 9 Rings
These will involve Numenor and Middle Earth men creating the Nazgûl of course- following 9 characters seems like a lot to me so maybe the show only develops 3-4 characters to follow - focusing on the Numenorean leaders of men that got rings of power. Maybe using that to explain the split of allegiance in the numenorean people, etc…we all know the trials of the faithful vs the king’s men.

Storyline of the 3 rings
Easy to write character arcs for the Elf characters we are familiar with here: Celebrimbor, Gil-galad, Galadriel, Elrond and Cirdan. Maybe show their thoughts for wanting to make middle-earth “timeless” like Valinor…

The show can run through the Second age timeline over 5 seasons following these 3 races and their struggles to avoid dominion by Sauron . The 3 storylines converge as we get closer toward the Last Alliance events. Every race will have a reason to fight Sauron and the audience will understand Sauron’s deception better and the motivation of the alliance members.

Just wondering…what do y’all think?


Chen G.
Gondor

Jan 27, 11:18pm

Post #27 of 36 (449 views)
Shortcut
I don't think so [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think the story will be oriented around the Rings in such a literal way. I think it will just be the story of the main events of the Second Age - in which the Rings are obviously very important - told through some narrative device of which we are as of yet unaware.

We know Isildur, Elendil and even Tar-Palantir are already present in season one. So its either flashbacks or time compression.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 28, 4:31am

Post #28 of 36 (425 views)
Shortcut
Rings and Things [In reply to] Can't Post

We don't know for certain that the kings of the Broadbeams and/or the Firebeards were in Khazad-dum for most of the Second Age (and well into the Third), though it does seem likely. Some Dwarves remained in the Blue Mountains, presumably mostly in the southern range. Of course the show can go in either direction as Tolkien left the question open to interpretation.

This does bring up a possibility that I have not before considered. Sauron distributed the Nine Rings long before he was taken to Numenor; however, he could have gifted a Ring to a Numenorean lord in Middle-earth who then returned to Numenor with it (at least for a time). It doesn't seem particularly likely as the Nazgul were never reported to appear in Numenor, but something might be done with the idea.

#FidelityToTolkien
#ChallengeExpectations

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 28, 4:32am)


Chen G.
Gondor

Jan 28, 4:31pm

Post #29 of 36 (381 views)
Shortcut
I always thought [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It doesn't seem particularly likely as the Nazgul were never reported to appear in Numenor, but something might be done with the idea.


That the Numenorean Nazgul weren't from the island but rulers of Numenorean colonies in Middle Earth: they were styled Kings and nobody on the island was that other than the King of Numenore, but the tyrannical rulers of the Numenoran colonies of Middle Earth could have concievably styled themselves kings to the subjugated Middle Earth natives.

As for the Dwarves, it makes sense that the Rings Sauron will have managed to reclaim from them would have belonged to those Dwarf Lords that ruled in the East, where Sauron held sway.

The Broadbeams and Firebeards will have settled at least in part in the Ered Luin: clearly Bombur (whom we know descends from natives of the Ered Luin) is descended from the former.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Jan 28, 4:32pm)


Felagund
Rohan


Jan 28, 7:29pm

Post #30 of 36 (365 views)
Shortcut
what's in a title... and what's not? [In reply to] Can't Post

I like the title, particularly the resonance with the title of the final chapter of The Silmarillion. Must admit, I was half-expecting something like 'The Downfall', given the scope for a vast morality play there, centred on Númenor and its ruin. I wonder if going for 'The Rings of Power' means that the main morality play will be the corrupting power of the Rings (and by extension, the corrupting power of... power). And I mean all of the Rings of Power, not just the One Ring and those that were perverted by Sauron. Tolkien does, after all, write of even the Three Rings being an act of hubris on the part of Celebrimbor & Co.

Not that there isn't plenty of room in the vastness of the Second Age (and Amazon's projected number of series) for multiple morality plays and story arcs. It has occurred to me though that something like 'The Downfall' would be a bit more all-encompassing, as in it would provide titular cover for lots of different downfalls: Númenor, Celebrimbor, the Nazgûl, Sauron, Gil-galad, Elendil and so on. Calling it 'The Rings of Power' defo achieves strong brand recognition but doesn't automatically or so easily 'cover' the loads of non-Rings of Power stuff going on in Númenor, for example.

Also, I lingered on the line from the showrunners, "before there was one there were many". True enough but as far as the source material goes, only 3 (4, if you buy into the legend of Durin III getting his Ring directly from Celebrimbor) were actually 'operational'. The Nine and the Seven (possibly minus one: see comment above!) appear only to be in use after Sauron's capture of Ost-in-Edhil, and that's nearly a century after the One Ring was forged. So, I get it: before there was one there were many. But most of them weren't being used until well after the One.

Semantics, on my part. I'm still very much looking forward to seeing what the showrunners do with this :)

Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk


Felagund
Rohan


Jan 28, 7:44pm

Post #31 of 36 (361 views)
Shortcut
non-regnal Númenóreans [In reply to] Can't Post

The Nazgûl were comprised of men who were originally "kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old". However, Tolkien describes the three Númenóreans who succumbed to Sauron's temptations as "great lords" (The Silmarillion). Even Herumor and Fuinur, two Númenóreans who lived after the Akallabêth, ie. after the death of the last King of Númenor, don't appear to have used kingly titles in exile - they are described as lords who hold sway over the Haradrim.

But I agree with you, it's conceivable that they could have styled themselves as kings in later years. If the Lord of the Nazgûl was one of these Númenóreans, then one of them certainly gets a (Witch-)kingly moniker, in the Third Age if not earlier.

Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 28, 7:44pm

Post #32 of 36 (361 views)
Shortcut
Yes, Chen. [In reply to] Can't Post

My assumptions are generally about the same as your own here. The Nine were most likely distributed to kings, lords and heroes from various parts of Middle-earth including the Numenorean settlements.

Appendix A of The Lord of the Rings confirms that at least some of the Dwarves of the Blue Mountains remained following the War of Wrath, many of them continuing to operate mines in the southern range of the Ered Luin. The ruling houses of the Firebeards and Broadbeams might have continued to dwell in the Blue Mountains or they might have taken up residence in Khazad-dum for the next age and a half. They might even have returned to their old lands after the Balrog of Moria drove the dwarves out of Khazad-dum. However, if that was the case, I have to wonder how their Rings might have been reclaimed by Sauron? Or how dragons might have devoured them?

#FidelityToTolkien
#ChallengeExpectations


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 28, 7:55pm

Post #33 of 36 (358 views)
Shortcut
Kings, Sorcerers, Warriors [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The Nazgûl were comprised of men who were originally "kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old". However, Tolkien describes the three Númenóreans who succumbed to Sauron's temptations as "great lords" (The Silmarillion). Even Herumor and Fuinur, two Númenóreans who lived after the Akallabêth, ie. after the death of the last King of Númenor, don't appear to have used kingly titles in exile - they are described as lords who hold sway over the Haradrim.

But I agree with you, it's conceivable that they could have styled themselves as kings in later years. If the Lord of the Nazgûl was one of these Númenóreans, then one of them certainly gets a (Witch-)kingly moniker, in the Third Age if not earlier.


Tolkien's exact phrasing might matter here: "Men proved easier to ensnare. Those who used the Nine Rings became mighty in their day, kings, sorcerers, and warriors of old. They obtained glory and great wealth, yet it turned to their undoing."

To me, that indicates that at least some of these Men (such as the future Witch-king) did not take such titles as "king" until after they made use of the power of the Rings. And it was with the Rings that some became powerful sorcerers, doubtless under the tutelage of Sauron. Of course, some or all of them had probably achieved some measure of greatness before they ever came under the thumb of Sauron. We do know of Khamul who was apparently a king of an Easterling people either before of after he was gifted with one of the Nine Rings.

#FidelityToTolkien
#ChallengeExpectations

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Jan 28, 8:06pm)


Felagund
Rohan


Jan 28, 10:11pm

Post #34 of 36 (343 views)
Shortcut
some digging [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't reckon I'd appreciated the nuance in that passage before, regarding what these Men "became", as opposed to what they may have been originally - many thanks for pointing it out!

I had a look at the pre-Silmarillion version of it (as published The Return of the Shadow) and did some cross-referencing with some of Tolkien's letters and, naturally, contradictions abound. The original version reverses the order, so to speak, so that it's the "kings, warriors and wizards" [not sorcerers, first time round] who 'become' the Ringwraiths. And then we get this from Letter 156 (November 1954):


Quote
There were evil Númenóreans: Sauronians, but they do not come into this story, except remotely; as the wicked Kings who had become Nazgûl or Ringwraiths.


On the subject of Khamûl, I've always assumed too that he was an Easterling king, back in the day. But I can't find a reference of that nature in the usual 'go-to' source, 'The Hunt for the Ring' / Unfinished Tales. 'Shadow of the East' and 'the Black Easterling', yes, but not a king, at least prior to his descent into darkness, now that I question my own assumption!

Even with all of these various inconsistencies, I agree with you that these humans had to be worth the effort, for Sauron to justify dealing out such a very limited and precious resource as a Ring of Power. So, as well as the three Númenórean "great lords", you'd reckon some of the other six could have been kings, lords or accomplished warriors of some description, prior to their recruitment by the Lord of the Rings.

Welcome to the Mordorfone network, where we put the 'hai' back into Uruk


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Jan 29, 8:37pm

Post #35 of 36 (252 views)
Shortcut
Khamul the Easterling [In reply to] Can't Post

You're right, I might be making a reckless assumption concerning Khamûl, the Black Easterling. He might not have originally been an Easterling king but could have been a warrior of renown, perhaps a war-leader of some kind. He might never have been a king, though I suspect otherwise.

I'm sure that Sauron drew from numerous cultures in Middle-earth for his Nazgûl. In the South we had the various peoples of Harad, Umbar and Khand. To the East there were the many, diverse tribes of Easterlings. Then there were the Gwathuirim. There might have even been Northmen or Forodwaith among the ranks of the Nine.

#FidelityToTolkien
#ChallengeExpectations


cats16
Valinor


Feb 11, 1:44am

Post #36 of 36 (115 views)
Shortcut
One sad postscript here....the passing of Douglas Trumbull [In reply to] Can't Post

Whose involvement in the making of this teaser trailer might be one of his last creative works, pending any others he had in some degree of production/post-production.

Quite the legend, though his work has been a bit overlooked as time has gone by.

Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




(This post was edited by cats16 on Feb 11, 1:44am)

 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.