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TIME - August 27

grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 27, 10:53am

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TIME - August 27 Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 27, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The Company makes its way north.
(not from the appendices)

..."...Often long after the hobbits were wrapped in sleep [Elrond, Gandalf, Celeborn and Galadriel] would sit together under the stars, recalling the ages that were gone and all their joys and labours in the world, or holding council, concerning the days to come. If any wanderer had chanced to pass, little would he have seen or heard, and it would have seemed to him only that he saw grey figures, carved in stone, memorials of forgotten things now lost in unpeopled lands. For they did not move or speak with their mouth, looking from mind to mind and only their shining eyes stirred and kindled as their thoughts went to and fro."



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 28, 10:35am

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TIME - August 28 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 28, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo searches out each Dwarf's cell
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)

..."Eventually... ...by watching and following the guards and taking what chances he could, he managed to find out where each dwarf was kept. He found all their twelve cells in different parts of the palace, and after a time he got to know his way about very well. What was his surprise one day to overhear some of the guards talking and to learn that there was another dwarf in prison too, in a specially deep dark place. He guessed at once... ...that that was Thorin; and after a while he found that his guess was right."


August 28, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. They overtake Saruman
(from the appendices)

..."...As they came out again into open country at sundown they overtook an old man leaning on a staff, and he was clothed in rags of grey or dirty white, and at his heels went another beggar, slouching and whining.
...'Well Saruman!' said Gandalf. 'Where are you going?'
...'What is that to you?' he answered. 'Will you still order my goings, and are you not content with my ruin?'
...'You know the answers,' said Gandalf: 'no and no. But in any case the time of my labours now draws to an end... ...But will you scorn our help? For we offer it to you.'
...'To me?' said Saruman. 'Nay, pray do not smile at me! I prefer your frowns. And as for the Lady here, I do not trust her: she always hated me, and schemed for your part. I do not doubt that she has brought you this way to have the pleasure of gloating over my poverty...'
...'...Saruman,' said Galadriel, 'we have other errands and other cares that seem to us more urgent than hunting for you. Say rather that you are overtaken by good fortune; for now you have a last chance.'
...'If it be truly the last, I am glad... ...for I shall be spared the trouble of refusing it again. All my hopes are ruined, but I would not share yours...'
...'...Go!' he said. 'I did not spend long study on these matters for naught. You have doomed yourselves, and you know it. And it will afford me some comfort as I wander to think that you pulled down your own house when you destroyed mine. And now, what ship will bear you back across so wide a sea?' he mocked. 'It will be a grey ship, and full of ghosts.' He laughed, but his voice was cracked and hideous..."
......As the wretched pair passed by the company, they came to the hobbits, and Saruman stopped and stared at them; but they looked at him with pity.
...'So you have come to gloat too... ...my urchins?'"

2. Saruman turns towards the Shire.
(from the appendices)

..."Saruman laughed.... '...you hobbit-lordlings, riding along with all those great people, so secure and so pleased with your little selves. You thought you had done very well out of it all, and could now just amble back and have a nice quiet time in the country. Saruman's home could be all wrecked, and he could be turned out, but no one could touch yours. Oh no! Gandalf would look after your affairs... ...But you must go dangling after him, dawdling and talking, and riding round twice as far as you needed. "Well," thought I, "if they're such fools, I will get ahead of them and teach them a lesson. One ill turn deserves another..." ...And it will be pleasant to think of that and set it against my injuries.'"



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CuriousG
Half-elven


Aug 28, 3:38pm

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This passage makes me wonder what more ruin for Saruman Gandalf wished for [In reply to] Can't Post

Especially since he offers to help him.


In Reply To
...'Well Saruman!' said Gandalf. 'Where are you going?'
...'What is that to you?' he answered. 'Will you still order my goings, and are you not content with my ruin?'
...'You know the answers,' said Gandalf: 'no and no. But in any case the time of my labours now draws to an end... ...But will you scorn our help? For we offer it to you.'




CuriousG
Half-elven


Aug 28, 3:46pm

Post #4 of 59 (1534 views)
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Saruman would thrive today as an internet troll [In reply to] Can't Post

Telling everyone they're wrong, sewing discord and reveling in it, and correcting people to make them look foolish and make the troll feel superior, like pointing out I should have said "sow" instead of "sew." You'd like to think there's redemption for these people who must be as unhappy inside as they try to make the world outside them.




In Reply To
..."Saruman laughed.... '...you hobbit-lordlings, riding along with all those great people, so secure and so pleased with your little selves. You thought you had done very well out of it all, and could now just amble back and have a nice quiet time in the country. Saruman's home could be all wrecked, and he could be turned out, but no one could touch yours. Oh no! Gandalf would look after your affairs... ...But you must go dangling after him, dawdling and talking, and riding round twice as far as you needed. "Well," thought I, "if they're such fools, I will get ahead of them and teach them a lesson. One ill turn deserves another..." ...And it will be pleasant to think of that and set it against my injuries.'"




Kimi
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 29, 2:16am

Post #5 of 59 (1513 views)
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I don't think he wanted his ruin at all. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think he is "not content with [Saruman's] ruin" because he wishes redemption for him, and wants to assist him in gaining that redemption. Coupled with that, Gandalf warned Frodo that Saruman was still capable of "a lit­tle mis­chief in a mean way", and is probably wondering just what mischief he is plotting.


The Passing of Mistress Rose
My historical novels

Do we find happiness so often that we should turn it off the box when it happens to sit there?

- A Room With a View


(This post was edited by Kimi on Aug 29, 2:16am)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 29, 11:51am

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It's time for some BS! [In reply to] Can't Post

Continuing with the BS of the Company meeting up with Saruman and Wormtongue, let's see more Book Spoiler of what followed… for a moment of Tolkien-zen.

From Many Partings: The Return of the King


...”'So you have come to gloat too... ...my urchins?' he said. 'You don't care what a beggar lacks, do you! For you have all you want, food and fine clothes, and the best weed for your pipes. Oh yes... ...I know where it comes from. You would not give a pipeful to a beggar, would you!'
...'I would, if I had any,' said Frodo.
...'You can have what I have got left,' said Merry... ...he handed to Saruman a leather pouch. 'Take what there is... ...You are welcome to it; it came from the flotsam of Isengard.'
...'Mine, mine, yes and dearly bought!' cried Saruman, clutching at the pouch... '...a beggar must be grateful, if a thief returns him even a morsel of his own. Well, it will serve you right when you come home, if you find things less good in the Southfarthing than you would like. Long may your land be short of leaf!'
...'Thank you!' said Merry. 'In that case I will have my pouch back, which is not yours and has journeyed far with me. Wrap the weed in a rag of your own.'
...'One thief deserves another,' said Saruman, and turned his back on Merry... ...and went away towards the wood.
...'Well, I like that!' said Pippin. 'Thief indeed! What of our claim for waylaying, wounding, and orc-dragging us through Rohan?'
...'Ah!' said Sam. 'And "bought" he said. How, I wonder! And I didn't like the sound of what he said about the Southfarthing. It's time we got back.'
...'I'm sure it is,' said Frodo. 'But we can't go any quicker, if we are to see Bilbo. I am going to Rivendell first, whatever happens.'
...'Yes, I think you had better do that,' said Gandalf... '...alas for Saruman! I fear nothing more can be made of him. He has withered altogether. All the same, I am not sure that Treebeard is right: I fancy he could do some mischief still in a small mean way.'"



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 29, 12:14pm

Post #7 of 59 (1468 views)
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Gandalf believed in Saruman for so long [In reply to] Can't Post

Even when he (Gandalf) was wondering to himself why he held back information about his guesses of the Ring and the Shire, he still honoured Saruman as the head. I agree he still had hope for Saruman's redemption. I think just like Frodo felt there was a chance of redemption for Sméagol so Gandalf thought there was a chance for Saruman.
I think, too, that Gandalf knew Saruman wasn't finished with his retaliation... and that his target would be the Shire. That's part of the reason he told the hobbits they were capable of taking care of their own business now and left them on the road to go to Bombadil's. I can imagine the conversations between those two immortals about hobbits ;)



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CuriousG
Half-elven


Aug 29, 9:24pm

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Aha! Thanks for that insight. Makes a lot of sense. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


CuriousG
Half-elven


Aug 29, 9:28pm

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OK, so you two have cleared up a line about Gandalf that has long bothered me. [In reply to] Can't Post

It doesn't work on the surface for Gandalf to say, in effect, "I'm not content with your ruin." The dangers of being too concise! But what he really meant was 1) he knew Saruman could cause more evil in his ruin, and 2) he hoped for redemption as a way out of that ruin, so yeah, he wasn't content to leave him in that state. Makes a lot more sense now. Though I think to Saruman's negative mind, he did think Gandalf just wanted to ruin him, and "redemption" was nonsense or subterfuge for some other fiendish purpose.

Thank you both.


CuriousG
Half-elven


Aug 29, 9:36pm

Post #10 of 59 (1447 views)
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Any would-be do-gooder or peace-maker will recognize this scene [In reply to] Can't Post

The hobbits try to make peace with Saruman, but all he can do is be spiteful and treacherous in return. For some people, no matter how kind you are to them, you just never get past their wall of negativity.

It's not emotionally satisfying as a reader, but it resonates as real-world behavior in a fantasy world. I like how Tolkien has a variety of endings for characters: 100% perfect for Aragorn, Eowyn, and Faramir; mixed feelings for Frodo and the Elves; and then outright unhappy endings for Saruman and Wormtongue.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 30, 11:32am

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Woe is Saruman [In reply to] Can't Post

I think part of his downfall was his jealously of Gandalf... and that he was threatened by Gandalf, too, if he knew of Galadriel's preference for Gandalf to head the White Council.



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 30, 11:42am

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True! [In reply to] Can't Post

We have a family friend who is very Eeyore... always sad, put-upon, negative and doom & gloom. For example, he hates the Christmas Holiday and makes sure everyone knows it every year while he joins us for the party ;) When I was waitressing, I smiled at the people who complained the most figuring I've made their day by giving them something to be indignant about over and over again... whether or not it was legitimate. Yep, there are those people.



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 30, 11:44am

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TIME - August 30 [In reply to] Can't Post

August 30, 2941 (S.R. 1341) (ish)
1. Gandalf rides to a meeting.
(not from the appendices-no text)

...It's been a full month since leaving Bilbo and the Dwarves at the edge of Mirkwood Forest, and Gandalf's thoughts never left them. For days while he was racing south, he was anxious and felt the call to turn back; but his first pledge had been made long before finding Thorin at the Prancing Pony and arranging the Quest. Now he felt sure they weren't in any immediate danger, and so his attention was turned to the task at hand as he kept an ear open for news from the north.



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CuriousG
Half-elven


Aug 30, 4:08pm

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A smile from a waitress [In reply to] Can't Post

Good for you! It doesn't work on everyone, but it does on some like me. I never wake up in the morning and consciously think, "Today I'm going to be grouchy to strangers," but yes, I'm human, it happens. And "a smile from a waitress" or anyone else stops me cold in my tracks and snaps me back to self-awareness (and apologies).

Ugh--that family friend. Yeah, we had one like that too.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 31, 12:24pm

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It's time for some BS! [In reply to] Can't Post

Continuing with the BS of the Company meeting up with Saruman and Wormtongue, let's see more Book Spoiler of what followed… for a moment of Tolkien-zen.

From Many Partings: The Return of the King


..."[The Company] went on into northern Dunland, where no man now dwelt, though it was a green and pleasant country… …with golden days and silver nights, and they rode at ease until they reached the Swanfleet river, and found the old ford, east of the falls where it went down suddenly into the lowlands. Far to the west in a haze lay the meres and eyots through which it wound its way to the Greyflood: there countless swans housed in a land of reeds.... So they passed into Eregion, and at last a fair morning dawned, shimmering above gleaming mists; and looking from their camp on a low hill the travellers saw… …in the east the Sun catching three peaks that thrust up into the sky through floating clouds: Caradhras, Celebdil, and Fanuidhol."



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 1, 12:40pm

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TIME - September 1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 1, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo finally finds one he sought.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)

..."...after a week or two of this sneaking sort of life, by watching and following the guards and taking what chances he could, he managed to find out where each dwarf was kept. He found all their twelve cells in different parts of the palace, and after a time he got to know his way about very well."


September 1, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The Company makes its way north.
(not from the appendices)

..."They went on into northern Dunland, where no man now dwelt, though it was a green and pleasant country. September came in with golden days and silver nights, and they rode at ease u0ntil they reached the Swanfleet river, and found the old ford, east of the falls where it went down suddenly into the lowlands. Far to the west in a haze lay the meres and eyots through which it wound its way to the Greyflood....
...So they passed into Eregion, and at last a fair morning dawned, shimmering above gleaming mists; and looking from their camp on a low hill the travellers saw away in the east the Sun catching three peaks that thrust up into the sky through floating clouds: Caradhras, Celebdil, and Fanuidhol. They were near to the Gates of Moria."


September 1, 3020 (S.R. 1420)
1. The Shire thrives.
(not from the appendices)

..."Altogether 1420 in the Shire was a marvellous year. Not only was there wonderful sunshine and delicious rain, in due times and perfect measure, but there seemed something more: an air of richness and growth, and a gleam of a beauty beyond that of mortal summers that flicker and pass upon this Middle-earth. All the children born or begotten in that year... ...were fair to see and strong, and most of them had a rich golden hair that had before been rare among hobbits. The fruit was so plentiful that young hobbits very nearly bathed in strawberries and cream; and later they sat on the lawns under the plum-trees and ate, until they had made piles of stones like small pyramids or the heaped skulls of a conqueror... ...And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass." in that year, and there were many, were fair to see and strong, and most of them had a rich golden hair that had before been rare among hobbits. The fruit was so plentiful that young hobbits very nearly bathed in strawberries and cream... ...they sat on the lawns under the plum-trees and ate, until they had make piles of stones like small pyramids or the heaped skulls of a conqueror, and then they moved on. And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass."



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TIME Google Calendar


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 2, 11:43am

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TIME - September 2 [In reply to] Can't Post



Today in Middle-earth

September 2, 1973
Today in Middle-earth... On this day in 1973 we lost our Good Professor. I'd like to offer this in memory and honour of him and his Lúthien.

From Of Beren and Lúthien: The Silmarillion


..."Now Beren and Lúthien Tinúviel went free again and together walked through the woods renewing for a time their joy; and though winter came it hurt them not, for flowers lingered where Lúthien went, and the birds sang beneath the snowclad hills."

From Of the Fifth Battle: Nirnaeth Arnoediad: The Silmarillion


..."It is said that Beren and Lúthien returned to the northern lands of Middle-earth, and dwelt together for a time as living man and woman; and they took up again their mortal form in Doriath. Those that saw them were both glad and fearful; and Lúthien went to Menegroth and healed the winter of Thingol with the touch of her hand. But Melian looked in her eyes and read the doom that was written there... ...she knew that a parting beyond the end of the world had come between them, and no grief of loss has been heavier than the grief of Melian the Maia in that hour. Then Beren and Lúthien went forth alone, fearing neither thirst nor hunger; and they passed beyond the River Gelion into Ossiriand, and dwelt there in Tol Galen the green isle... ...until all tidings of them ceased. The Eldar afterwards called that country Dor Firn-i-Guinar, and the Land of the Dead that Live; and there was born Dior Aranel the beautiful, who was after known as Dior Eluchíl, which is Thingol's Heir. No mortal man spoke ever again with Beren son of Barahir; and none saw Beren or Lúthien leave the world, or marked where at last their bodies lay."



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dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 2, 2:38pm

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I can never forget... [In reply to] Can't Post

Starting my second year of college, and I glanced through the New York Times at the Library the next morning, and saw his obituary...and I made it back to my dorm room, and sat on my bed, and just cried and cried...

We'd lost a best friend we had never met in person, but knew well through his writings, which touched us all deeply.

Thank you, Professor. "And he sang to them, now in the Elven-tongue, now in the speech of the West, until their hearts, wounded with sweet words, overflowed, and their joy was like swords, and they passed in thought out to regions where pain and delight flow together and tears are the very wine of blessedness."


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 3, 10:47am

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**mods up** // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 3, 10:48am

Post #20 of 59 (1147 views)
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TIME - September 3 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 3, 3001 (S.R. 1401)
1. September in Hobbiton.
(not from the appendices)

..."...it was understood that something quite exceptional was being planned for that autumn. Bilbo was going to be eleventy-one, 111, a rather curious number, and a very respectable age for a hobbit... ...and Frodo was going to be thirty-three, 33, an important number: the date of his 'coming of age'.
...Tongues began to wag in Hobbiton and Bywater; and rumour of the coming event travelled all over the Shire. The history and character of Mr. Bilbo Baggins became once again the chief topic of conversation; and the older folk suddenly found their reminiscences in welcome demand.
...No one had a more attentive audience than old Ham Gamgee, commonly known as the Gaffer.... ...he spoke with some authority, for he had tended the garden at Bag End for forty years, and had helped old Holman in the same job before that. Now that he was himself growing old and stiff in the joints, the job was mainly carried on by his youngest son, Sam Gamgee. Both father and son were on very friendly terms with Bilbo and Frodo. They lived on the Hill itself, in Number 3 Bagshot Row just below Bag End.
...'A very nice well-spoken gentlehobbit is Mr. Bilbo, as I've always said,' the Gaffer declared. With perfect truth: for Bilbo was very polite to him, calling him 'Master Hamfast', and consulting him constantly upon the growing of vegetables—in the matter of 'roots', especially potatoes, the Gaffer was recognized as the leading authority by all in the neighbourhood (including himself).
...'But what about this Frodo that lives with him?' asked Old Noakes of Bywater. 'Baggins is his name, but he's more than half a Brandybuck... ...left an orphan and stranded, as you might say, among those queer Bucklanders. Being brought up anyhow in Brandy Hall. A regular warren, by all accounts. Old Master Gorbadoc never had fewer than a couple of hundred relations in the place. Mr. Bilbo never did a kinder deed than when he brought the lad back to live among decent folk...
...'...they do things proper at Bag End. [says the Gaffer] Our Sam says that everyone's going to be invited to the party, and there's going to be presents, mark you, presents for all--this very month as is.'"



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We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 4, 9:41am

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TIME - September 4 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 4, 3001 (S.R. 1401)
1. Party rumours start.
(not from the appendices)

..."...a rumour (probably started by the knowledgeable Sam) was spread about that there were going to be fireworks--fireworks, what is more, such as had not been seen in the Shire for nigh on a century, not indeed since the Old Took died."



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We have been there and back again.


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CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 4, 1:33pm

Post #22 of 59 (1098 views)
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Magic genie wish [In reply to] Can't Post

One of them would have been to attend Bilbo's birthday party!


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 5, 11:45am

Post #23 of 59 (1010 views)
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It's time for some BS! [In reply to] Can't Post

Here's a Book Spoiler that gives you a glimpse of what you'll find in Appendix B and the Chronology of the Westlands. This is where I find the subjects of my TIME installments and a treasure trove of Tolkien's world… for a moment of Tolkien-zen.

Appendix B: The Tale of Years: The Third Age: The Return of the King

Year

2463
The White Council is formed. About this time Déagol the Stoor finds the One Ring, and is murdered by Sméagol. Thráin the Dwarf is imprisoned in Dol Guldur; the last of the Seven Rings is taken from him.

2850
Gandalf again enters Dol Guldur, and discovers that its master is indeed Sauron. who is gathering all the Rings and seeking for news of the One, and of Isildur's Heir. He finds Thráin and receives the key of Erebor. Thráin dies in Dol Guldur.

2851
The White Council meets. Gandalf urges an attack on Dol Guldur. Saruman overrules him. Saruman begins to search near the Gladden Fields.

2939
Saruman discovers that Sauron's servants are searching the Anduin near Gladden Fields, and that Sauron therefore has learned of Isildur's end. He is alarmed, but says nothing to the Council.

2941
Thorin Oakenshield and Gandalf visit Bilbo in the Shire. Bilbo meets Sméagol-Gollum and finds the Ring. The White Council meets; Saruman agrees to an attack on Dol Guldur, since he now wishes to prevent Sauron from searching the River. Sauron having made his plans abandons Dol Guldur. The Battle of Five Armies in Dale. Death of Thorin II. Bard of Esgaroth slays Smaug. Dáin of the Iron Hills becomes King under the Mountain (Dáin II).

2942
Bilbo returns to the Shire with the Ring. Sauron returns in secret to Mordor. 2944 Bard rebuilds Dale and becomes King. Gollum leaves the Mountains and begins his search for the 'thief of the Ring.



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CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 5, 1:26pm

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This is something I'd love to see on screen [In reply to] Can't Post

So much packed into this. How was Gandalf disguised? Did he come face to face with Sauron, or peek at him from behind a corner? How did he learn of Sauron's plans? How was he able to meet privately with Thrain? If Gandalf could get in and out (again), why couldn't he take Thrain with him?


In Reply To

2850
Gandalf again enters Dol Guldur, and discovers that its master is indeed Sauron. who is gathering all the Rings and seeking for news of the One, and of Isildur's Heir. He finds Thráin and receives the key of Erebor. Thráin dies in Dol Guldur.




grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 6, 2:14am

Post #25 of 59 (949 views)
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Ohhhh. Me too! :D [In reply to] Can't Post

GREAT QUESTIONS that need answering... or at least put on the BIG screen!



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 6, 12:08pm

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TIME - September 6 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

Let's catch up and see what everyone is doing Today in Middle-earth.


41 days in Mirkwood
September 6, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo learns how to make his way through Thranduil's Caverns
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)

..."Eventually... ...by watching and following the guards and taking what chances he could, he managed to find out where each dwarf was kept. He found all their twelve cells in different parts of the palace, and after a time he got to know his way about very well."

September 6, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo prepares to leave Bag End.
(not from the appendices)

[Frodo's plans to move to his little house at Crickhollow in the country beyond Bucklebury are well underway.]
..."Frodo was also growing increasingly anxious about the delay of Gandalf's return. Bilbo's birthday, the chosen day of Frodo's departure, was fast approaching and there was still no word from the wizard."

September 6, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. They (the Travellers) halt in the sight of the Mountain of Moria.
(from the appendices)

..."They were near to the Gates of Moria... ...Here now for seven days they tarried, for the time was at hand for another parting which they were loth to make. Soon Celeborn and Galadriel and their folk would turn eastward, and so pass by the Redhorn Gate and down the Dimrill Stair to the Silverlode and to their own country."

September 6, 3020 (S.R. 1420)
1. Summer comes to an end in the Shire.
(not from the appendices)

..."In the Southfarthing the vines were laden, and the yield of 'leaf' was astonishing; and everywhere there was so much corn that at Harvest every barn was stuffed."

September 6, 3021 (S.R. 1421)
1. Frodo seems to become more content.
(not from the appendices-no text)

...Sam 's mind was eased and his concern for Frodo lessened as it seemed his master was more content than he'd been in many months. The restless nights were fewer now, and Frodo seemed to find great satisfaction in the progress he was making with his book. There were picnics with Sam, Rosie and little Elanor under the mallorn tree, peaceful hikes to the far ends of the Shire, and even a long visit with old Farmer Maggot. Though once he did tell Sam he'd be away for a fortnight and was last seen near Crickhollow riding toward the old High Hay hedges.



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 7, 12:05pm

Post #27 of 59 (1195 views)
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TIME - September 7 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 7, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo finds Thorin's cell.
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)

..."What was his surprise one day to overhear some of the guards talking and to learn that there was another dwarf in prison too, in a specially deep dark place. He guessed at once... ...that that was Thorin; and after a while he found that his guess was right. At last after many difficulties he managed to find the place when no one was about, and to have a word with the chief of the dwarves.
...Thorin was too wretched to be angry any longer at his misfortunes, and was even beginning to think of telling the king all about his treasure and his quest... ...when he heard Bilbo's little voice at his keyhole. He could hardly believe his ears. Soon however he made up his mind that he could not be mistaken, and he came to the door and had a long whispered talk with the hobbit on the other side."


September 7, 3001 (S.R. 1401)
1. The Shire is visited by outsiders.
(not from the appendices)

..."Days passed and The Day drew nearer. An odd-looking waggon laden with odd-looking packages rolled into Hobbiton one evening and toiled up the Hill to Bag End. The startled hobbits peered out of lamplit doors to gape at it. It was driven by outlandish folk, singing strange songs: dwarves with long beards and deep hoods. A few of them remained at Bag End."




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grammaboodawg
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Sep 8, 12:12pm

Post #28 of 59 (1165 views)
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Today in Middle-earth

September 8, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The White Council meets.
(not from the appendices-determined from text)

..."...ever the shadow in Mirkwood grew deeper, and to Dol Guldur evil things repaired out of all the dark places of the world... ...united again under one will, and their malice was directed against the Elves and the survivors of Númenor. Therefore at last the Council was again summoned and the lore of the Rings was much debatedut Mithrandir spoke to the Council, saying:
..."'It is not needed that the Ring should be found, for while it abides on earth and is not unmade, still the power that it holds will live, and Sauron will grow and have hope..."


PS: On September 8, 1966 - Star Trek first aired

Live long and prosper




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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 9, 10:12am

Post #29 of 59 (1077 views)
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It's time for some more BS! [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is the first of a series of Book Spoilers that looks at events leading up to the meeting of the White Council... for a moment of Tolkien-zen.

The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age


..."Mithrandir was closest in counsel with Elrond and the Elves. He wandered far in the North and West and made never in any land any lasting abode... ...and he it was that most doubted the darkness in Mirkwood, for though many deemed that it was wrought by the Ringwraiths, he feared that it was indeed the first shadow of Sauron returning... ... he went to Dol Guldur, and the Sorcerer fled from him, and there was a watchful peace for a long while. But at length the Shadow returned and its power increased... ...in that time was first made the Council of the Wise that is called the White Council, and therein were Elrond and Galadriel and Círdan, and other lords of the Eldar, and with them were Mithrandir and Curunír... ...Curunír (that was Saruman the White) was chosen to be their chief, for he had most studied the devices of Sauron of old. Galadriel... ...wished that Mithrandir should be the Lead of the Council... ...but Mithrandir refused the office, since he would have no ties and no allegiance, save to those who sent him, and he would abide in no place nor be subject to any summons. But Saruman now began to study the lore of the Rings of Power, their making and their history."



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CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 9, 6:23pm

Post #30 of 59 (1037 views)
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Once upon a time, both sci-fi and fantasy were considered fringe elements [In reply to] Can't Post

So we can thank Star Trek and Tolkien for their contributions in making them more mainstream.


CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 9, 6:28pm

Post #31 of 59 (1035 views)
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Gandalf was sort of a humble-brag, wasn't he? [In reply to] Can't Post

As in: "look at how humble I am, too humble to head the Council that seeks to destroy Sauron, even though that's my sole mission here." It seems more pride than humility at the core. He certainly had plenty of "ties" to hobbits, Elrond, and Galadriel.

Or that's what you say when you turn down a job when the real reason is they didn't offer you enough money or the commute would be too long.


In Reply To

Galadriel... ...wished that Mithrandir should be the Lead of the Council... ...but Mithrandir refused the office, since he would have no ties and no allegiance, save to those who sent him, and he would abide in no place nor be subject to any summons.




CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 9, 6:32pm

Post #32 of 59 (1034 views)
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Who's who on the White Council [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But at length the Shadow returned and its power increased... ...in that time was first made the Council of the Wise that is called the White Council, and therein were Elrond and Galadriel and Círdan, and other lords of the Eldar, and with them were Mithrandir and Curunír.


Interesting that there's no mention of Radagast. I figured he'd be an ex officio member at least. Maybe he just never showed up.

And of course saying, "other lords of the Eldar" is going to keep me up at night, wondering who they were: Erestor? Glorfindel? Thranduil? Well, Celeborn isn't mentioned, but I imagine he's a member too, or that marriage was just totally headed for failure.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 10, 10:34am

Post #33 of 59 (972 views)
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It's time for MORE BS! [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is another of a series of Book Spoilers that looks at events leading up to the meeting of the White Council... for a moment of Tolkien-zen.

The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age


..."Now the Shadow grew ever greater, and the hearts of Elrond and Mithrandir darkened. Therefore... ...Mithrandir at great peril went again to Dol Guldur and the pits of the Sorcerer, and he discovered the truth of his fears, and escaped... ...returning to Elrond he said:
...‘True, alas, is our guess. This is not one of the Úlairi, as many have long supposed. It is Sauron himself who has taken shape again and now grows apace... ...he is gathering again all the Rings to his hand; and he seeks ever for news of the One, and of the Heirs of Isildur, if they live still on earth...’
......Elrond answered: ‘In the hour that Isildur took the Ring and would not surrender it, this doom was wrought, that Sauron should return.’
... ‘Yet the One was lost,' said Mithrandir, ‘and while it still lies hid, we can master the Enemy, if we gather our strength and tarry not too long.'
... Then the White Council was summoned; and Mithrandir urged them to swift deeds, but Curunír spoke against him, and counselled them to wait yet and to watch.
... ‘For I believe not,' said he, ‘that the One will ever be found again in Middle-earth. Into Anduin it fell,... ...I deem, it was rolled to the Sea. There it shall lie until the end, when all this world is broken and the deeps are removed.'
... Therefore naught was done at that time, though Elrond's heart misgave him... ...he said to Mithrandir:
... 'Nonetheless I forbode that the One will yet be found, and then war will arise again, and in that war this Age will be ended. Indeed in a second darkness it will end, unless some strange chance deliver us that my eyes cannot see.’
... 'Many are the strange chances of the world,' said Mithrandir, 'and help oft shall come from the hands of the weak when the Wise falter.'"



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(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Sep 10, 10:35am)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 10, 11:28am

Post #34 of 59 (965 views)
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There's that one part [In reply to] Can't Post

in the description of his reason for refusing the office... "...since he would have no ties and no allegiance, save to those who sent him... " sounds like it was part of his charge when he was sent here. You can't properly head a committee, meeting, or war when you're on the Road... and Saruman lost track of HIS purpose as soon as he took up residency in Orthanc. So I don't necessarily see it as a humble-brag but as an explanation of why he wouldn't/couldn't commit to one place or one cause. But he is, I'm sure, allowed to have favourite places... like the Shire. I'm thinking he felt the most "at home" there as he so thoroughly enjoyed those silly hobbits and their simple way of life. Like a wonderful vacation. He was careful to keep them secret and safe... but it became more difficult when Bilbo himself gave up their existence while debating with Gollum.

It seems that the one time Gandalf did respond to a summons (when Saruman sent Radagast to "find" Gandalf and send him to Orthanc), he was betrayed and imprisoned. It tells me that any time Gandalf was drawn to other "meetings" it was probably via the thought-sharing method commonly used between Elrond, Galadriel, etc. In this case, Saruman didn't expose his thoughts to Gandalf when he (Saruman) wanted to summon Gandalf because he knew more of his intention might be revealed.


Ahh... the White Council. I've never found an official list in the stories/appendices, but it was primarily made up of Ring-bearers (Gandalf, Elrond, Galadriel) and Círdan (former Ring-bearer) and other Wizards and Elves to include Glorfindel (Firstborn/faced the 9), Saruman and Radagast. There must have been others (Celeborn, Thranduil?). It would stand to reason that Celeborn would be there and Radagast/Thranduil since the confrontation was in their neighbourhood... Mirkwood. I'll bet there are TORnsibbies who are MUCH more knowledgeable about this than I am :D



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 10, 11:49am

Post #35 of 59 (964 views)
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I think you're right [In reply to] Can't Post

Nearly everyone you mention here are on my list of possible members. I'm also wondering if Elrond's sons, Elrohir and Ellada, were there? Erestor... he'd be a logical member, too... you're right! What about the Blue Wizards? I know they went out on their own... but they probably would have been included. Wasn't there a shout-out to Tom Bombadil, too? ;)



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CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 10, 3:01pm

Post #36 of 59 (955 views)
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Oh, to be a fly on the wall [In reply to] Can't Post

I love this conversation between the two titans, Gandalf and Elrond. I'd like to be a fly on the wall and listen in on their other conversations--they know what's going on more than anyone, and they cut to the chase quickly.


CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 10, 3:10pm

Post #37 of 59 (950 views)
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So I think you're saying he was too much of a maverick to be a committee head [In reply to] Can't Post

and also, unlike my interpretation, that he was too devoted to his true mission to get sidetracked with meeting notes, agendas, and settling disputes about who sat at the head of the table. Which is all quite viable. It seems his favorite abodes were the Shire and Rivendell. Possibly Lorien too, since the Elves there sang quite a lament for him after he died in Moria, and why sing for a stranger?

I am back to wondering why Galadriel, who summoned the White Council, didn't just lead it herself. If she had the power to summon the potentates, why not lead them? But that seemed something that Tolkien was keen on: making her powerful, but not too powerful, which included not giving her the title Queen of Lorien, having to settle for the lesser one of Lady. (And I'm no expert in peerage law, but shouldn't she have become High Queen of the Noldor in Middle-earth after Gil-Galad was dead?)


CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 10, 3:16pm

Post #38 of 59 (950 views)
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I predict Bombadil could have been a 1-man army against Sauron, just by singing [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Hey! Come merry dol! derry dol! My darling!

Sung over and over like "100 bottles of beer on the wall," that would drive out even the dougtiest dark lord from their stronghold.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 11, 11:08am

Post #39 of 59 (877 views)
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It's time for some BS - September 11 [In reply to] Can't Post

 

This is a Book Spoiler to honour and in memory of the day...for a moment of Tolkien-zen.

September 11 [ 9/11 ]

The Stairs of Cirith Ungol: The Two Towers


[Sam speaking with Frodo] "...we shouldn't be here at all, if we'd known more about it before we started. But I suppose it's often that way. The brave things in the old tales and songs... ...adventures, as I used to call them. I used to think that they were things the wonderful folk of the stories went out and looked for, because they wanted them, because they were exciting and life was a bit dull, a kind of a sport... ...But that's not the way of it with the tales that really mattered, or the ones that stay in the mind. Folk seem to have been just landed in them, usually--their paths were laid that way... ...But I expect they had lots of chances... ...of turning back, only they didn't. And if they had, we shouldn't know, because they'd have been forgotten. We hear about those as just went on--and not all to a good end, mind you; at least not to what folk inside a story and not outside it call a good end. You know, coming home, and finding things all right, though not quite the same--like old Mr. Bilbo. But those aren't always the best tales to hear, though they may be the best tales to get landed in!"





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CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 11, 2:09pm

Post #40 of 59 (860 views)
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Very nice tribute to Sept 11--thank you. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's hard to believe it happened 18 years ago when it's carved into your consciousness the way it was for many of us. An entire generation has grown up with it as just another fact of history, without the gut-level attachment, like the Fall of Rome or Columbus discovering American islands. Significant in the scheme of things, but not emotional.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 12, 10:39am

Post #41 of 59 (785 views)
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It's time for even more BS! [In reply to] Can't Post

Here is another of a series of Book Spoilers that looks at events leading up to the meeting of the White Council... for a moment of Tolkien-zen.

The Silmarillion: Of the Rings of Power and the Third Age


..."Orcs were mustering, and far to the east and the south the wild peoples were arming. Then in the midst of gathering fear and the rumour of war, the foreboding of Elrond was proved true, and the One Ring was indeed found again, by a chance more strange than even Mithrandir had foreseen; and it was hidden from Curunír and from Sauron. For it had been taken from Anduin... ...being found by one of the small fisher-folk that dwelt by the River... ...and by its finder it was brought beyond search into dark hiding under the roots of the mountains. There it dwelt, until even in the year of the assault upon Dol Guldur it was found again, by a wayfarer, fleeing into the depths of the earth from the pursuit of the Orcs, and passed into a far distant country, even to the land of the Periannath... ...the Halflings, who dwelt in the west of Eriador. And ere that day they had been held of small account by Elves and by Men, and neither Sauron nor any of the Wise save Mithrandir had in all their counsels given thought to them."



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grammaboodawg
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Sep 13, 10:38am

Post #42 of 59 (672 views)
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TIME - September 13 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 13, 3018 (S.R. 3018)
1. The days go by in Bag End.
(not from the appendices)

..."Autumn was well under way before Frodo began to worry about Gandalf again. September was passing and there was still no news of him. The Birthday, and the removal, drew nearer, and still he did not come, or send word."

September 13, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. Celeborn and Galadriel depart, the others set out for Rivendell.
(not from the appendices)

...[The Company lingered near the Silverlode] "...But at length all was said, and they parted again for a while, until it was time for the Three Rings to pass away. Quickly fading into the stones and the shadows the grey-cloaked people of Lórien road towards the mountain; and those who were going to Rivendell sat on the hill and watched, until there came out of the gathering mist a flash; and then they saw no more. Frodo knew that Galadriel had held aloft her ring in token of farewell. Sam turned away and sighed: 'I wish I was going back to Lórien!'"



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grammaboodawg
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Sep 14, 12:46pm

Post #43 of 59 (573 views)
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Today in Middle-earth

September 14, 3001 (S.R. 1401)
1. A waggon is spotted on the road.
(not from the appendices)

..."Days passed and The Day drew nearer... ...At the end of the second week in September a cart came in through Bywater from the direction of Brandywine Bridge in broad daylight. An old man was driving it all alone. He wore a tall pointed blue hat, a long grey cloak, and a silver scarf. He had a long white beard and bushy eyebrows that stuck out beyond the brim of his hat. Small hobbit-children ran after the cart all through Hobbiton and right up the hill. It had a cargo of fireworks... ...At Bilbo's front door the old man began to unload: there were great bundles of fireworks of all sorts and shapes, each labelled with a large red G and the elf-rune


...That was Gandalf's mark... ...and the old man was Gandalf the wizard, whose fame in the Shire was due mainly to his skill with fires, smokes, and lights. His real business was far more difficult and dangerous, but the Shire-folk new nothing about it.... ...he was just one of the 'attractions' at the Party.
...When the old man, helped by Bilbo and some dwarves, had finished unloading, Bilbo gave a few pennies away; but not a single squib or cracker was forthcoming, to the disappointment of the onlookers.
...'Run away now!' said Gandalf. 'You will get plenty when the time comes.' Then he disappeared inside with Bilbo, and the door was shut. The young hobbits stared at the door in vain for a while, and then they made off, feeling that the day of the party would never come."



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 15, 12:27pm

Post #44 of 59 (472 views)
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Today in Middle-earth

September 15, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The White Council continues their debate.
(not from the appendices-determined from text – The Silmarillion)

... "... Mithrandir spoke to the Council, saying:
...'...The might of the Elves and the Elf-friends is less now than of old. Soon he will be too strong... ...even without the Great Ring; for he rules the Nine, and of the Seven he has recovered three. We must strike.'"

2. Saruman agrees to an attack on Dol Guldur.
(not from the appendices-determined from text)

..."To this Curunír now assented, desiring that Sauron should be thrust from Dol Guldur, which was nigh to the River, and should have leisure to search there no longer. Therefore, for the last time, he aided the Council..."


September 15, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Gandalf is still held captive atop Orthanc [since July 10].
(not from the appendices)

..."'...on the pinnacle of Orthanc, in the place where Saruman was accustomed to watch the stars. There is no descent save by a narrow stair of many thousand steps, and the valley below seems far away... ...I stood alone on an island in the clouds; and I had no chance of escape, and my days were bitter. I was pierced with cold, and I had but little room in which to pace to and fro, brooding on the coming of the Riders to the North.'"


September 15, 1977
1. The Silmarillion is published.

... Forty years after the publication of The Hobbit, Christopher Tolkien completed his father's work, The Silmarillion.



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grammaboodawg
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Sep 16, 10:23am

Post #45 of 59 (262 views)
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Today in Middle-earth

September 16, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo feels the strain.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)

..."Bilbo did not like being depended upon by everyone, and he wished he had the wizard at hand. But that was no use: probably all the dark distance of Mirkwood lay between them."

September 16, 3001 (S.R. 1401)
1. Bilbo begins sending invitations.
(not from the appendices)

..."Before long the invitations began pouring out, and the Hobbiton post-office was blocked, and the Bywater post-office was snowed under, and voluntary assistant postmen were called for... ...a constant stream of them going up the Hill, carrying hundreds of polite variations on 'Thank you, I shall certainly come.'
...A Notice appeared on the gate at Bag End: NO ADMITTANCE EXCEPT ON PARTY BUSINESS."



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CuriousG
Half-elven


Sep 16, 2:07pm

Post #46 of 59 (250 views)
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The Shire's post office [In reply to] Can't Post

That's one of those things you skip over as a reader and don't think much about, and just one of many. But I think if someone got analytical, they would be sharply critical of Tolkien's incongruity between a backwater country like the Shire having a postal system while a bigger, older, richer, more sophisticated country like Gondor does not. (If Gondor did, why the beacons? And why wouldn't Forlong the Fat have sent a letter saying, "Thank you, I shall certainly attend the war with X number of men.")

Just a reminder that it's not always a good idea to look under the hood. Smile

[And I'm sure some troll will tell me that of course Gondor had a postal system and we can't be sure they didn't; don't bother.]


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 16, 2:17pm

Post #47 of 59 (246 views)
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Post versus Beacon [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That's one of those things you skip over as a reader and don't think much about, and just one of many. But I think if someone got analytical, they would be sharply critical of Tolkien's incongruity between a backwater country like the Shire having a postal system while a bigger, older, richer, more sophisticated country like Gondor does not. (If Gondor did, why the beacons? And why wouldn't Forlong the Fat have sent a letter saying, "Thank you, I shall certainly attend the war with X number of men.")


The Shire's post office might have been a holdover from the time of the North Kingdoms. Gondor probably would have had some kind of postal system, but the beacons would be a much faster way to signal for help than even a messenger on a fast horse. That said, such a messenger is how Rohan--in the book--is alerted to Gondor's need.

Btw, CG, I don't much approve of your implication that anyone wishing to start a discussion from your post is automatically a troll. That's just rude and you should know better. Frown

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 16, 2:19pm)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 17, 10:18am

Post #48 of 59 (153 views)
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Today in Middle-earth

September 17, 3001 (S.R. 1401)
1. Bilbo party preparations keep him busy.
(not from the appendices)

..."Even those who had, or pretended to have, Party Business were seldom allowed inside. Bilbo was busy: writing invitation, ticking off answers, packing up presents, and making some private preparations of his own. From the time of Gandalf's arrival he remained hidden from view."


September 17, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Gandalf is captive atop Orthanc.
(not from the appendices)

..."'Fear was ever in my heart for my friends in the Shire... ...I hoped that Frodo has set forth at once, as my letter had urged, and that he had reached Rivendell before the deadly pursuit began. And both my fear and my hope proved ill-founded. For my hope was founded on a fat man in Bree; and my fear was founded on the cunning of Sauron. But fat men who sell ale have many calls to answer; and the power of Sauron is still less than fear makes it. But in the circle of Isengard, trapped and alone, it was not easy to think that the hunters before whom all have fled or fallen would falter in the Shire far away.'"

[A little related BS from a September 26 event in Frodo's dream while in the house of Tom Bombadil... for a moment of Tolkien-zen.

From The Council of Elrond: The Fellowship of the Ring


... "'I saw you!' cried Frodo. 'You were walking backward and forwards. The moon shone in your hair.'
... Gandalf paused astonished and looked at him. 'It was only a dream,' said Frodo, 'but it suddenly came back to me. I had quite forgotten... ...It came some time ago; after I left the Shire, I think.'
... 'Then it was late in coming,' said Gandalf, 'as you will see."]



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 17, 10:27am

Post #49 of 59 (152 views)
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Makes me think [In reply to] Can't Post

of Gandalf trying to get a simple letter to the Shire from Bree. ;)



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CuriousG
Half-elven


Tue, 2:03pm

Post #50 of 59 (138 views)
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Ha! Good point. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


CuriousG
Half-elven


Tue, 2:13pm

Post #51 of 59 (311 views)
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Thank you for 2 intriguing bits [In reply to] Can't Post

1. The whole trilogy makes you fear Sauron and his growing, overwhelming power. Then Gandalf makes that point of:


Quote
and the power of Sauron is still less than fear makes it.

That's a nice, self-aware thing to say, especially in this council where they are all fretting about Sauron. It's like readjusting the focus on a camera or moving a painting on the wall: a little shift in perspective for the reader.


2. Frodo's dream. Dreams are usually considered prophetic. Certainly Frodo's dream of Tol Eressea is looking forward in time. I always wonder why he dreamed of Gandalf on Orthanc only after the fact, and not even simultaneously. I think the dream shows Frodo has an important, personal connection to Gandalf, and of course whenever the dream happened, it wasn't actionable: Frodo wasn't going to storm Isengard to save him. But it still seems odd that it happens after the fact.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Wed, 10:21am

Post #52 of 59 (278 views)
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TIME - September 18 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 18, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The Company is still caught in Thranduil's caves.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)

...Bilbo continues to ponder an escape plan as he listens, watches and waits.


September 18, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo prepares to leave Bag End for Crickhollow.
(not from the appendices)

..."Bag End began to be busy. Some of Frodo's friends came to stay and help him with the packing: there was Fredegar Bolger and Folco Boffin, and of course his special friends Pippin Took and Merry Brandybuck. Between them they turned the whole place upside-down."

2. Gandalf escapes from Orthanc in the early hours. The Black Riders cross the Fords of Isen.
(from the appendices)

..."'Those of you who know me will agree that I have seldom been in such need, and do not bear such misfortune well. Gandalf the Grey caught like a fly in a spider's treacherous web! Yet even the most subtle spiders may leave a weak thread.
...'At first I feared, as Saruman no doubt intended, that Radagast had also fallen. Yet I had caught no hint of anything wrong in his voice or in his eye at our meeting... ...He sought me in good faith, and so persuaded me.
...'That was the undoing of Saruman's plot. For Radagast knew no reason why he should not do as I asked; and he rode away towards Mirkwood where he had many friends of old. And the Eagles of the Mountains went far and wide, and they saw many things: the gathering of wolves and the mustering of Orcs; and the Nine Riders going hither and thither in the lands; and they heard news of the escape of Gollum. And they sent a messenger to bring these tidings to me.
...'So it was that when summer waned, there came a night of moon, and Gwaihir the Windlord... ...came unlooked-for to Orthanc; and he found me standing on the pinnacle. Then I spoke to him and he bore me away, before Saruman was aware. I was far from Isengard, ere the wolves and orcs issued from the gate to pursue me.
...'"How far can you bear me?" I said to Gwaihir.
...'"Many leagues," said he, "but not to the ends of the earth. I was sent to bear tidings not burdens."
...'"Then I must have a steed on land," I said, 'and a steed surpassingly swift, for I have never had such need of haste before."
...'"Then I will bear you to Edoras, where the Lord of Rohan sits in his halls..."'"

[league = 3 miles]


September 18, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
The Company rides to Rivendell
(not from the appendices-no text)

...Gandalf, the hobbits and Elrond with his company continue at their leisure on their journey to Rivendell as Saruman makes his way to the Shire.


September 18, 3020 (S.R. 1420)
1. The hobbits adjust.
(not from the appendices)

..."Frodo and Sam went back to ordinary attire, except that when there was need they both wore long grey cloaks, finely woven and clasped at the throat with beautiful brooches; and Mr. Frodo wore always a white jewel on a chain that he often would finger."


September 18, 3021 (S.R. 1421)
1. The family in Bag End.
(not from the appendices-no text)

...Frodo found himself watching Sam as he moved about Bag End, often with little Elanor cradled in one of his strong, weathered arms. He suddenly became aware that he had contemplated a hope, a presumption, that would comfort himself in his decision; but would it be fair to Sam? The answer was clear to him. He looked over at Rosie as she set plates and cups on the table and she looked up at him and smiled. Frodo smiled in return. "I'll fetch Sam for you, Rosie. Then I'll come help you finish with the table."



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Wed, 1:10pm

Post #53 of 59 (270 views)
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It's not the only picture adjusted [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
The whole trilogy makes you fear Sauron and his growing, overwhelming power.


Sauron's not the only one using fear against his enemies. Aragorn brought fear TO Sauron when he exposed himself via the palantir at Helm's Deep causing Sauron to react sooner than he had planned.

Quote
'I did so ere I rode from the Hornburg,' answered Aragorn. 'I deemed that the time was ripe, and that the Stone had come to me for just such a purpose. It was then ten days since the Ring-bearer went east from Rauros, and the Eye of Sauron, I thought, should be drawn out from his own land. Too seldom has he been challenged since he returned to his Tower. Though if I had foreseen how swift would be his onset in answer, maybe I should not have dared to show myself. Bare time was given me to come to your aid.' [Pelennor Field]


Gandalf and Aragorn compounded Sauron's fear when they joined in council to move on Mordor with the Captains of the West... giving Frodo a chance.
Fear is a mighty weapon when used well. These Captains/Gandalf were able to control their fear and turn it on Sauron.


2. Frodo's dream at Bombadil's is when he saw Gandalf atop Orthanc and being rescued. Late in coming, p'raps being at Tom's and wearing the Ring around his neck for so long began to stir this ability of foresight but not yet accurate... that and the Ring beginning to strengthen with Sauron's rise. Once he wears the Ring after his Morgul blade injury, his dreams/foresight becomes stronger, too... imho. ;) Strong enough to see and challenge Galadriel in her own land when he saw her Ring and offered her his.



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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Thu, 11:27am

Post #54 of 59 (201 views)
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TIME - September 19 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 19, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Gandalf comes to Edoras as a beggar, and is refused admittance.
(from the appendices)

..."'...[Gwaihir] set me down in the land of Rohan ere dawn... ...In Rohan I found evil already at work: the lies of Saruman...'"
...Éomer recounts:] "'Indeed since his last coming in the summer all things have gone amiss. At that time our trouble with Saruman began. Until then we counted Saruman our friend, but Gandalf came... ...and warned us that sudden war was preparing in Isengard. He said that he himself had been a prisoner in Orthanc and had hardly escaped, and he begged for help. But Théoden would not listen to him, and he went away.'"


September 19, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The Company continues to ride toward home.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...Elrond and his people, Gandalf and the hobbits continue at their leisure on their journey to Rivendell as Saruman makes his way to the Shire.


September 19, 3020 (S.R. 1420)
1. Life seems to return to normal in the Shire.
(not from the appendices)

..."All thing now went well, with hope always of becoming still better; and Sam was as busy and as full of delight as even a hobbit could wish. Nothing for him marred that whole year, except for some vague anxiety about his master. Frodo dropped quietly out of all the doings of the Shire, and Sam was pained to notice how little honour he had in his own country. Few people knew... ...about his deeds and adventures; their admiration and respect were given mostly to Mr. Meriadoc and Mr. Peregrin and (if Sam had known it) to himself. Also in the autumn there appeared a shadow of old troubles."


September 19, 3021 (S.R. 1421)
1. Frodo quietly makes plans.
(not from the appendices)

...'"Little Elanor was nearly six months old, and 1421 had passed to its autumn, when Frodo called Sam into the study.
...'It will be Bilbo's Birthday on Thursday, Sam,' he said. 'And he will pass the Old Took. He will be a hundred and thirty-one!'
...'So he will!' said Sam. 'He's a marvel!'
...'Well, Sam... ...I want you to see Rose and find out if she can spare you, so that you and I can go off together. You can't go far or for a long time now, of course,' he said a little wistfully.
...'Well, not very well, Mr. Frodo.'
...'Of course not. But never mind. You can see me on my way. Tell Rose that you won't be away very long, not more than a fortnight; and you'll come back quite safe.'
...'I wish I could go all the way with you to Rivendell... ...see Mr. Bilbo,' said Sam. 'And yet the only place I really want to be in is here. I am that torn in two.'
...'Poor Sam! It will feel like that, I am afraid,' said Frodo. 'But you will be healed. You were meant to be solid and whole, and you will be.'"



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CuriousG
Half-elven


Thu, 4:49pm

Post #55 of 59 (188 views)
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Good point about fear [In reply to] Can't Post

There was plenty to go around. And as fear-inspiring as Sauron was, he could be scared too.

And I like your idea about Frodo's intuition growing in an organic way: a few youthful bumps and jerks in the beginning before becoming more powerful later on. If bearing the One Ring and surviving a Morgul blade made him more insightful, then their effects were not all bad, even if unintended.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Fri, 11:07am

Post #56 of 59 (118 views)
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TIME - September 20 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 20, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Gandalf at the White Council.
(not from the appendices-determined from LotR Appendix B text)

... "In the late summer... ...Gandalf had at last prevailed upon Saruman and the White Council to attack Dol Guldur, and Sauron retreated and went to Mordor, there to be secure, as he thought, from all his enemies. So it was that when the War came at last the main assault was turned southwards..."

2. The White Council assaults Dol Guldur.
(not from the appendices-determined from The Silmarillion text)

..."... they put forth their strength; and they assailed Dol Guldur, and drove Sauron from his hold, and Mirkwood for a brief while was made wholesome again."
..."But their stroke was too late. For the Dark Lord had foreseen it, and he had long prepared all his movements; and... ...his Nine Servants, had gone before him to make ready for his coming. Therefore his flight was but a feint, and he soon returned, and ere the Wise could prevent him he re-entered his kingdom in Mordor and reared once again the dark towers of Barad-dûr. And in that year the White Council met for the last time, and Curunír withdrew to Isengard, and took counsel with none save himself."


September 20, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Gandalf gains entrance to Edoras.
(from the appendices)

...Théoden commands him to go: 'Take any horse, only be gone ere tomorrow is old!'
..."'...the king of the land would not listen to my warnings. He bade me take a horse and be gone; and I chose one much to my liking, but little to his. I took the best horse in his land, and I have never seen the like of him.'"

2. It's busy at Bag End.
(not from the appendices)

..."On September 20th two covered carts went off laden to Buckland, conveying the furniture and goods that Frodo had not sold to his new home, by way of the Brandywine Bridge."


September 20, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The Travellers are still on the road.
(not from the appendices)

...The Travellers approach the moors leading to the Valley of Rivendell as Saruman passes the borders of the Shire.


September 20, 3021 (S.R. 1421)
1. Frodo finishes his arrangements.
(not from the appendices)

..."In the next day or two Frodo went through his papers and his writings with Sam, and he handed over his keys. There was a big book with plain red leather covers... ...pages were now almost filled. At the beginning there were many leaves covered with Bilbo's thin wandering hand; but most of it was written in Frodo's firm flowing script. It was divided into chapters but Chapter 80 was unfinished, and after that were some blank leaves. The title page had many titles on it, crossed out one after another, so:

...My diary. My Unexpected Journey. There and Back Again. And What Happened After.
...Adventures of Five Hobbits. The Tale of the Great Ring, compiled by Bilbo Baggins from his own observations and the accounts of his friends. What we did in the War of the Ring.


Here Bilbo's hand ended and Frodo had written:

THE DOWNFALL
OF THE
LORD OF THE RINGS
AND THE
RETURN OF THE KING


(as seen by the Little People; being the memoirs
of Bilbo and Frodo of the Shire, supplemented
by the accounts of their friends and the learning
of the Wise.)


Together with extracts from Books of Lore
translated by Bilbo in Rivendell.


...'Why, you have nearly finished it, Mr. Frodo!' Sam exclaimed. 'Well, you have kept at it, I must say.'
...'I have quite finished, Sam,' said Frodo. 'The last pages are for you.'"



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CuriousG
Half-elven


Fri, 2:45pm

Post #57 of 59 (96 views)
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I'm partial to Frodo's title [In reply to] Can't Post

I suppose Tolkien biased us that way, slapping something similar on the cover of the book. But it also sounds more serious and authoritative than Bilbo's attempts at titles.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sat, 11:48am

Post #58 of 59 (49 views)
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TIME - September 21 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 21, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo makes a discovery.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)

..."One day, nosing and wandering about, Bilbo discovered a very interesting thing: the great gates were not the only entrance to the caves. A stream flowed under part of the lowest regions of the palace, and joined the Forest River some way further to the east, beyond the steep slope out of which the main mouth opened....
......When the barrels were empty the elves cast them through the trapdoors, opened the water-gate, and out the barrels floated on the stream…"
...For some time Bilbo sat and thought about this water-gate, and wondered if it could be used for the escape of his friends, and at last he had the desperate beginnings of a plan…."

2. Bilbo and the Dwarves escape in the afternoon.
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)

..."…Bilbo heard the king's butler bidding the chief of the guards good-night.
..."Now come with me," he said, "and taste the new wine that has just come in. I shall be hard at work tonight clearing the cellars of the empty wood, so let us have a drink first to help the labour."

...…When he heard this Bilbo was all in a flutter, for he saw that luck was with him and he had a chance at once to try his desperate plan. He followed the two elves, until they entered a small cellar and sat down at a table on which two large flagons were set. Soon they began to drink and laugh merrily…. …Then in crept the hobbit. Very soon the chief guard had no keys…
...First he unlocked Balin's door… "You must follow me! We must all keep together and not risk getting separated. All of us must escape or none, and this is our last chance. If this is found out, goodness knows where the king will put you next, with chains on your hands and feet too, I expect. Don't argue, there's a good fellow!"
...Then off he went from door to door, until his following had grown to twelve… … At last after much blundering they came to Thorin's dungeon, far down in a deep place and fortunately not far from the cellars.
..."Upon my word!" said Thorin, when Bilbo whispered to him to come out and join his friends, "Gandalf spoke true, as usual. A pretty fine burglar you make, it seems, when the time comes. I am sure we are all for ever at your service, whatever happens after this. But what comes next?"
...Bilbo saw that the time had come to explain his idea, as far as he could...
..."...We shall be bruised and battered to pieces, and drowned too, for certain!" they muttered. "We thought you had got some sensible notion, when you managed to get hold of the keys. This is a mad idea!"
..."Very well!" said Bilbo very downcast, and also rather annoyed. "Come along back to your nice cells, and I will lock you all in again, and you can sit there comfortably and think of a better plan—but I don't suppose I shall ever get hold of the keys again, even if I feel inclined to try."
...That was too much for them, and they calmed down. In the end, of course, they had to do just what Bilbo suggested…
...…They soon found thirteen [casks] with room enough for a dwarf in each. In fact some were too roomy, and as they climbed in the dwarves thought anxiously of the shaking and the bumping they would get inside, though Bilbo did his best to find straw and other stuff to pack them in as cosily as could be managed in a short time....
.......Bilbo suddenly discovered the weak point in his plan... ...he was not in a barrel himself...
......Now the very last barrel was being rolled to the doors! In despair and not knowing what else to do, poor little Bilbo caught hold of it and was pushed over the edge with it. Down into the water he fell, splash! into the cold dark water with the barrel on top of him.
...He came up again spluttering and clinging to the wood like a rat, and lay on the top spread out to keep the balance as best he could."

3. At dusk Bilbo the barrel-packed dwarves reach the huts of the Raft-men.
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)

... "...the hurrying water of the Forest River swept all the company of casks and tubs away to the north bank... ...On the shallow shore most of the barrels ran aground, though a few went on to bump against the stony pier.
...There were people on the look-out on the banks. They quickly poled and pushed all the barrels together into the shallows… …counted them… …roped them together and left them till the morning. Poor dwarves! Bilbo… …slipped from his barrel and waded ashore, and then sneaked along to some huts that he could see near the water's edge. He no longer thought twice about picking up a supper uninvited if he got the chance… …and he knew only too well what it was to be really hungry… …Also he had caught a glimpse of a fire through the trees, and that appealed to him with his dripping and ragged clothes clinging to him cold and clammy."


September 21, 3001 (S.R. 1401)
1. Party preparations are in full swing.
(not from the appendices)

..."The tents began to go up. There was a specially large pavilion, so big that the tree that grew in the field was right inside it, and stood proudly near one end, at the head of the chief table. Lanterns were hung on all its branches. More promising still (to the hobbits' mind): an enormous open-air kitchen was erected in the north corner of the field. A draught of cooks, from every inn and eating-house for miles around, arrived to supplement the dwarves and other odd folk that were quartered at Bag End. Excitement rose to its height.
...Then the weather clouded over. That was on Wednesday the eve of the Party. Anxiety was intense..."


September 21, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Gandalf meets Shadowfax.
(from the appendices)

..." 'There is one among them that might have been foaled in the morning of the world. The horses of the Nine cannot vie with him... ...swift as the flowing wind. Shadowfax they called him. By day his coat glistened like silver; and by night it is like a shade, and he passes unseen. Light is his footfall! Never before had any man mounted him...'"

2. Frodo continues to anticipate Gandalf's return.
(not from the appendices)

..."Frodo became really anxious, and kept a constant look-out for Gandalf."


September 21, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. They return to Rivendell.
(from the appendices)

..."At last one evening they came over the high moors, suddenly as to the travellers it always seemed, to the brink of the deep valley of Rivendell and saw far below the lamps shining in Elrond's [home]... ...filled with light and song for joy at Elrond's homecoming.
...First of all, before they had eaten or washed or even shed their cloaks, the hobbits went in search of Bilbo. They found him all alone in his little room. It was littered with papers and pens and pencils; but Bilbo was sitting in a chair before a small bright fire. He looked very old, but peaceful, and sleepy.
...He opened his eyes and looked up as they came in. 'Hullo, hullo! ...So you've come back? And tomorrow's my birthday, too. How clever of you! Do you know, I shall be one hundred and twenty-nine? And in one year more, if I am spared, I shall equal the Old Took. I should like to beat him; but we shall see.'"

2. Saruman comes to the Shire.
(from the appendices)

..."You made me laugh, you hobbit-lordlings, riding along with all those great people, so secure and so pleased with your little selves. You thought you had done very well out of it all, and could now just amble back and have a nice quiet time in the country.... ...but you must go dangling after him, dawdling and talking, and riding round twice as far as you needed. "Well," thought I, "if they're such fools, I will get ahead of them and teach them a lesson. One ill turn deserves another."


September 21, 3021 (S.R. 1421)
1. Frodo and Samwise set out from Hobbiton.
(from the appendices)

..."...they set out together, Frodo on the pony that had borne him all the way from Minas Tirith, and was now called Strider: and Sam on his beloved Bill. It was a fair golden morning, and Sam did not ask where they were going: he thought he could guess."


September 21, 1937
1. The Hobbit is published.

..."In a hole in the ground there lived a hobbit."

...In the early 1930's, J.R.R. Tolkien found a blank page on one of his students' school papers he was correcting and wrote this first line of what would become one of the greatest fantasy stories written. Once a bedtime story for his young children, the Professor eventually penned his tale of the adventures of a Hobbit, Dwarves, Elves and a Dragon into a book.
...The first edition of The Hobbit was published by George Allen & Unwin, Ltd. of London in 1937 with 1,500 prints. To date, it has been published in 40 different languages. Tolkien's world of Middle-earth eventually expanded into The Lord of the Rings.




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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sat, 12:34pm

Post #59 of 59 (48 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Nothing about adventures... just a clear title on the outcome of the "adventures".


Quote
...supplemented by the accounts of their friends and the learning of the Wise.)

Together with extracts from Books of Lore translated by Bilbo in Rivendell.



It's fascinating that he includes what "the Wise" learned from (I'm assuming) not only the history of Middle-earth, but during the Quest: History of the Ring; corruption and influence of the Ring & palantirs; how to unite the kindred of Middle-earth; the responsibility of each kindred to be vigilant and keep peace in their own lands; etc. It's also notable most of that era's "Wise" left... shifting the wisdom to those who learned on the job and/or evolved into the new Wise in this new world. And I love how Frodo acknowledges Bilbo's long years of work on his translations of lore... bringing even more history through tales... often the only historic accounts of many kindreds and lands.



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