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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
Which Tolkien characters are essential for the series?

Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 12, 3:38am

Post #1 of 40 (729 views)
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Which Tolkien characters are essential for the series? Can't Post

Which characters absolutely must appear in Amazon's upcoming Lord of the Rings series? What other characters do you think should be included? The following is my own take on the subject, your mileage may vary.

Essential Characters

Elves
Celembrimbor
Celeborn
Círdan
Elrond (immortal Half-elf)
Galadriel
Gil-galad

Men
Tar-Aldarion
Anárion
Elendil
Erendis
Isildur
Khamûl the Easterling (not strictly canonical?)
Númenórean Lords, Sorcerers and Heroes of Men who receive Rings of Power
Tar-Minastir
Tar-Míriel
Ar-Pharazôn

Dwarves
Lord of Khazad-dûm (Durin III, IV or V?)
Narvi

Other
Sauron/Annatar
Nazgûl (post-transformation)

Optional Characters

Elves
Celebrían
Gildor Inglorion
Oropher
Thranduil

Men
Ar-Adûnakhôr
Tar-Ancalimë
Tar- Atanamir
Tar-Elendil
Elros Tar-Minyatur (mortal Half-elf)
Tar-Palantir

Dwarves
Dwarf-lords who receive Rings of Power

Other
Tom Bombadil
Treebeard (and other Ents)
Goldberry

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 12, 3:42am)


MoreMorgoth
Bree

Aug 12, 10:41am

Post #2 of 40 (647 views)
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Age old complaint [In reply to] Can't Post

There were good reasons why Jackson left out Bombadil and Goldberry. They are the most confusing and weakly written characters in the entire book.

Why create an all powerful ring that corrupts everyone and then hand it to this fellow who basically looks at it and throws it back like a carnival prop that has no hold over him?

Very poor writing and so early in the book.

I like much of the list in the OP. Good job.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 12, 2:06pm

Post #3 of 40 (607 views)
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Bombadil [In reply to] Can't Post

I could certainly see a role for ol' Tom in the middle of the Third Age, as he and Goldberry might provide aid and comfort to refugees from Cardolan during the invasions by Angmar. But there is a reason why I don't list them as essential characters; I'm not sure how to incorporate them into a narrative about the Second Age.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)


Hasuwandil
Rivendell


Aug 12, 4:23pm

Post #4 of 40 (580 views)
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Addenda [In reply to] Can't Post

As optional Elves, I would add Amdír (a.k.a. Malgalad) and his son Amroth (although Tolkien also toyed with the idea of making Amroth the son of Celeborn and Galadriel).

Also, although Khamûl the Easterling and any of the three Númenóreans would probably make the most interesting characters, and it would probably slow things down too much to go into the backgrounds of all nine Nazgûl, I would still add the other five pre-transformation Nazgûl as potential optional characters.

I would say that all other Men could be optional characters, because we don't know for sure what the focus of the series will be regarding time and place. Otherwise, essential characters could be anyone from Elros to Isildur. However, here are my additional suggestions for optional characters, divided chronologically:

The Mariner's Wife
Tar-Meneldur (Írimon), father of Aldarion
Almarian, mother of Aldarion
Vëantur, grandfather of Aldarion, and the first Númenórean to return to Middle-earth
Beregar, father of Erendis
Núneth, mother of Erendis
Valandil, cousin of Aldarion, first Lord of Andúnië, and progenitor of the Kings of Gondor and Arnor
Silmariën, mother of Valandil and elder sister of Tar-Meneldur
Elatan, father of Valandil

The Mariner's Daughter
Zamîn, caretaker of Tar-Ancalimë
Hallacar, husband of Tar-Ancalimë
Soronto, cousin of Tar-Ancalimë, who would have been King of Númenor if she had not wed Hallacar
Orchaldor, father of Soronto
Ailinel, mother of Soronto and younger sister of Tar-Aldarion

The Dark Years - Sauron's Retreat and the Rise of Númenor
Tar-Ciryatan, son of Tar-Minastir, who began oppressing the peoples of Middle-earth to bring treasures back to Númenor

The Downfall of Númenor
Amandil, last Lord of Andúnië, and father of Elendil (High King of Arnor and Gondor)

The War of the Last Alliance
Meneldil, son of Anárion, and third King of Gondor
Valandil, son of Isildur, and third King of Arnor
Elendur, son of Isildur
Aratan, son of Isildur
Ciryon, son of Isildur

Lastly, depending on where Amazon decides (and is allowed by the Tolkien Estate) to go with the series, I would also add the Elf Glorfindel and the Istari Alatar and Pallando, or Morinehtar and Rómestámo.

Hêlâ Aurwandil, angilô berhtost,
oƀar Middangard mannum gisandid!


Hasuwandil
Rivendell


Aug 12, 5:29pm

Post #5 of 40 (564 views)
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One more [In reply to] Can't Post

There are still probably a number of names that could be added (e.g. various princes, princesses, and lesser-known kings of Númenor), but one I would add is Tar-Telperiën. However, she introduces some difficulties to the chronology. She was an isolationist who never wedded, and who refused to yield the Sceptre until she was near death. Her death date is given as S.A. 1731. She was succeeded by her nephew Tar-Minastir, who is best known for sending Númenórean forces to relieve the Elves during the War of the Elves and Sauron. However, the date for the arrival of the Númenóreans is given as S.A. 1700, well before Tar-Telperiën's death, and consequently well before Tar-Minastir became king. Given that the Númenóreans coming to the aid of the Elves is probably one event that must be depicted in the series, Amazon will have to either find a way to resolve this discrepancy, or ignore it, which will be not be difficult to do if they don't constantly give the year when events happen. Still, they would have to decide whether or not Tar-Minastir is king yet when the Númenórean fleet sails to Middle-earth.

Hêlâ Aurwandil, angilô berhtost,
oƀar Middangard mannum gisandid!


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan


Aug 12, 5:36pm

Post #6 of 40 (564 views)
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I'd be interested to see both Tom and Goldberry [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think they're weakly written at all - and there's places they could be incorporated, even if just as cameos. For instance, when the Men of Numenor begin to deforest the western lands of Middle-earth, they could run into him. He should probably be more mystical in the Second Age, since, through the eyes of anyone other than hobbits, the jovial figure from FOTR would probably be rather odd. Through the eyes of Men, I could see him as a character similar to the descriptions of the pagan god Cernunnos or even Pan.

"It is my duty to fight" - Mulan


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 12, 5:42pm

Post #7 of 40 (558 views)
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Re: Addenda [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
As optional Elves, I would add Amdír (a.k.a. Malgalad) and his son Amroth (although Tolkien also toyed with the idea of making Amroth the son of Celeborn and Galadriel).


Fair enough! I would have included that pair myself, if I had thought of them.


In Reply To
Also, although Khamûl the Easterling and any of the three Númenóreans would probably make the most interesting characters, and it would probably slow things down too much to go into the backgrounds of all nine Nazgûl, I would still add the other five pre-transformation Nazgûl as potential optional characters.


Agreed. It's possible to get bogged down into too much detail. I like most of your additional suggestions, though I personally think that Glorfindel's return to Middle-earth and the introduction of the Blue Wizards all belong in the Third Age.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 12, 5:47pm

Post #8 of 40 (557 views)
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Tar-Telperiën and Tar-Minastir [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't believe that we need to think of this as a discrepancy. Rather, the challenge for Minastir is to convince his aunt to allow him to sail to the aid of the Elves. But, you're right: Tar-Telperiën either needs to be included or the writers need to write around her character.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan


Aug 12, 5:48pm

Post #9 of 40 (558 views)
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I agree that most, if not all, of the pre-transformation Nazgul [In reply to] Can't Post

should be seen onscreen. With supposedly five seasons consisting of possibly twenty episodes each (it's only a rumor, but it's possible), I imagine there will need to be a lot of material. And it would give audiences some shocks - there could be a guessing game played with the audience, where you're not sure who will turn out to be a Nazgul, you grow attached to characters and then they become corrupted by evil, etc. It could be fun. Similar to how audiences played along with the clues and prophecies in GoT, trying to figure out who was the Prince that was Promised - except, hopefully, LOTR would give more satisfying conclusions (or, you know, any conclusions at all) to these guessing-games.

"It is my duty to fight" - Mulan


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 12, 5:51pm

Post #10 of 40 (554 views)
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Probably more likely [In reply to] Can't Post

To get characters with names like "Tyra".

Tongue

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 12, 6:03pm

Post #11 of 40 (549 views)
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Bombadil/Iarwain/Orald [In reply to] Can't Post

Elrond at the Council of Elrond:

Quote
'Time was when a squirrel could go from tree to tree from what is now the Shire to Dunland west of Isengard. In those lands I journeyed once, and many things wild and strange I knew. But I had forgotten Bombadil, if indeed this is still the same that walked the woods and hills long ago, and even then was older than the old. That was not then his name. Iarwain Ben-adar we called him, oldest and fatherless. But many another name he has since been given by other folk: Forn by the Dwarves, Orald by Northern Men, and other names beside. He is a strange creature, but maybe I should have summoned him to our Council.'


The challenge with Tom Bombadil is that he plays a small part, as a whole, in the history of Men and Elves in Middle-earth. His inclusion should seem meaningful and not just a throw-away cameo. On the other hand, it shouldn't have too much of an impact.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 12, 6:12pm

Post #12 of 40 (544 views)
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Tyra? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Probably more likely To get characters with names like "Tyra".

Tongue


Hey! Tyra is actually Old Norse, feminine form of the name Týr (Norse god of war). Granted, it sounds out-of-place in Middle-earth to a modern ear, but I still expect that it's just a placeholder name and not an original character.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)


MoreMorgoth
Bree

Aug 12, 9:09pm

Post #13 of 40 (514 views)
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why? [In reply to] Can't Post

Why go through all this trouble to create a Ring that corrupts all who possess it by then create this mystical being who is immune to it?

Can you tell me what the heck was that all about?

How does that advance the story instead of merely add confusion to it?


InTheChair
Lorien

Aug 12, 11:23pm

Post #14 of 40 (491 views)
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Think you have most of them. [In reply to] Can't Post

There ought be a place for Ciryatur the commander of the Numenorean fleet sent to aid Gil-galad

Might be interesting also to have some of the Nazgul before they became ring-wraiths, but they would have to invent names for those I suppose.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 12, 11:50pm

Post #15 of 40 (484 views)
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Ciryatur [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
There ought be a place for Ciryatur the commander of the Numenorean fleet sent to aid Gil-galad


Noted, though Ciryatur could conceivably be replaced by Minastir himself.


In Reply To
Might be interesting also to have some of the Nazgul before they became ring-wraiths, but they would have to invent names for those I suppose.


Yes, at least some of them. Although even the name Khamûl might need the approval of The Tolkien Estate.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)


squire
Half-elven


Aug 13, 1:49am

Post #16 of 40 (466 views)
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Does every word in a book have to 'advance the story'? [In reply to] Can't Post

I appreciate your frustration with Tom Bombadil, which is shared by most of us fans. But my best take on him is that he represents 'depth' rather than 'confusion' in relation to the story of the One Ring.

Tom's 'immunity' is, as it turns out, almost meaningless because he is not tempted by the Ring but is also not particularly interested in it. Thus he can't 'defeat' the Ring in the sense of changing the main storyline: he can't destroy it by taking it to Mordor and the fire, because he has no desire to do so. As the discussion at the Council of Elrond points out, he could hold the Ring without using it for evil - until the forces of evil conquered the world and showed up at his doorstep, overpowered even him, and took the Ring back.

How does this advance the story - if that is what we demand of Tom? Tolkien uses this episode, and its explanation a few chapters later, to show that mere 'immunity' to the Ring is just as useless as taking it with the firm desire to do Good with it. Its pure Evil overcomes both good will, neutrality, natural obstacles (like dropping it into the Sea), and Tom's unique disinterest in it. There is no alternative except to try to destroy it while resisting its temptation to use it. As we see, only hobbits are able to do this, and even they (Frodo) will fail in the end.



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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Aug 13, 4:20am

Post #17 of 40 (451 views)
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The Ring does not corrupt all who possess it. [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo gives it up voluntarily, albeit after great effort. Sam gives it up even more readily.


Treachery, treachery I fear; treachery of that miserable creature.

But so it must be. Let us remember that a traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend.


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kzer_za
Lorien

Aug 13, 12:47pm

Post #18 of 40 (376 views)
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Bilbo has his "Gollum" moment at Rivendell [In reply to] Can't Post

Whether we interpret his transformation as physical or only psychological. He also lies to people about how he got it, in Tolkien's little retcon of the first edition of The Hobbit.


CuriousG
Half-elven


Aug 13, 1:04pm

Post #19 of 40 (369 views)
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That could be really cool [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And it would give audiences some shocks - there could be a guessing game played with the audience, where you're not sure who will turn out to be a Nazgul, you grow attached to characters and then they become corrupted by evil, etc. It could be fun. Similar to how audiences played along with the clues and prophecies in GoT, trying to figure out who was the Prince that was Promised - except, hopefully, LOTR would give more satisfying conclusions (or, you know, any conclusions at all) to these guessing-games.


Especially if they don't thrown in the towel like GoT did at the end.


kzer_za
Lorien

Aug 13, 1:19pm

Post #20 of 40 (366 views)
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And one more thing... [In reply to] Can't Post

While he does freely give up the ring, it takes a lot of pressure from Gandalf to get him there.


Solicitr
Rohan

Aug 13, 2:01pm

Post #21 of 40 (358 views)
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Subject [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
Khamûl the Easterling (not strictly canonical?)


Is canonical. The only Ringwraith Tolkien ever actually named ("Witch-King" being a title)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 13, 2:25pm

Post #22 of 40 (347 views)
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Yes, but... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Is canonical. The only Ringwraith Tolkien ever actually named ("Witch-King" being a title)


...Khamûl is only named in the secondary canon of Unfinished Tales. There is no source for the name in the primary legendarium. I've also seen it speculated* that the Gothmog who was the lieutenant of Minas Morgul and who commanded Sauron's army at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields following the fall of the Lord of the Nazgûl might also have been a Ringwraith.

* by Robert Foster in The Complete Guide to Middle-earth.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 13, 2:38pm)


Solicitr
Rohan

Aug 13, 2:37pm

Post #23 of 40 (344 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

but that's also true of Aldarion, Erendis, Hallatar, the name Mairon, etc etc etc

Heck, for that matter the whole Silmarillion could be labeled "secondary canon."


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 13, 2:39pm

Post #24 of 40 (338 views)
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Well, that's true (mostly). [In reply to] Can't Post

Except for Tar-Aldarion, who is named in the LotR appendices.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 13, 2:42pm)


Mari D.
Rivendell


Aug 13, 3:12pm

Post #25 of 40 (324 views)
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I'd also like this! =D Sounds intriguing. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
And it would give audiences some shocks - there could be a guessing game played with the audience, where you're not sure who will turn out to be a Nazgul, you grow attached to characters and then they become corrupted by evil, etc. It could be fun. Similar to how audiences played along with the clues and prophecies in GoT, trying to figure out who was the Prince that was Promised - except, hopefully, LOTR would give more satisfying conclusions (or, you know, any conclusions at all) to these guessing-games.



(This post was edited by Mari D. on Aug 13, 3:12pm)


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 13, 6:37pm

Post #26 of 40 (382 views)
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Faramir, Gandalf, Galadriel, Elrond (and Movie-Aragorn) [In reply to] Can't Post

Faramir, of course, expressly forswears taking the Ring when he had the two Hobbits in his and his Rangers' power. Both Gandalf and Galadriel refuse to take the Ring when Frodo offers it to them, albeit under different circumstances. Elrond tries to get Isildur to destroy it, and makes no effort to take it from him by force (a la Sméagol and Deagol).

And there is the lovely scene in the film (lovely to me, I know your mileage varies) where Aragorn closes Frodo's hand over the Ring and sends him off on his way, rather than taking the Ring himself. Of course, that's not Tolkien, but its still a nice scene showing an important character not getting corrupted by potentially possessing the Ring.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan


Aug 13, 8:34pm

Post #27 of 40 (361 views)
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Squire explained it better than I ever could [In reply to] Can't Post

I agreed with pretty much everything he said: and I just personally feel that the characters of Tom and Goldberry are beautifully-written, perfectly realized. When I want to reread a chapter of LOTR, I'll usually choose "The House of Tom Bombadil" because of how beautiful the writing is in that chapter. Also, if Tom is a Maiar, as seems likely, then the encounter with him is the only real time we get to see one of the gods of Middle-earth up close and personal (excluding Gandalf and Saruman, since they're kind of "veiled" for the most part). So that really intrigues me too.

"It is my duty to fight" - Mulan


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 13, 9:41pm

Post #28 of 40 (353 views)
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Retrofitted [In reply to] Can't Post

Tom and Goldberry (not to mention Old Man Willow and the Barrow-wight) already existed outside of the mythology that LOTR connected to and they were added to the story more or less because Tolkien liked them and wanted to include them. You can call Tom a Maia if you want to, and I won't argue that it probably is the best fit in the mythology as it came to exist, but I don't really think that Tolkien meant that to be the case. I think Tom and Goldberry are both earth spirits separate from the pantheon of beings that exist in the legendarium and that is both why he is immune from the power of the Ring, but also unable (or unwilling, which really is the same thing) to take any action to help destroy the Ring. It's almost like you step outside the story when you enter his domain, and then jump back in when he leaves the Hobbits at the borders of Bree. Certainly from the perspective of modern fiction-writing that is "bad writing". Perhaps that is why I love it so much!

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire

(This post was edited by Voronwë_the_Faithful on Aug 13, 9:43pm)


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Aug 13, 10:19pm

Post #29 of 40 (349 views)
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Fair points. [In reply to] Can't Post

Although you don't mention Sam. Let us say that the Ring does not absolutely corrupt all who possess it. Different characters are affected in accordance with their natures and circumstances. And in a nifty twist, the one character who would apparently be totally unaffected would also be useless as its guardian for that very reason.


Treachery, treachery I fear; treachery of that miserable creature.

But so it must be. Let us remember that a traitor may betray himself and do good that he does not intend.


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Discuss Tolkien's life and works in the Reading Room!
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Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 13, 10:54pm

Post #30 of 40 (343 views)
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The Ring's Corruption [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Faramir, of course, expressly forswears taking the Ring when he had the two Hobbits in his and his Rangers' power. Both Gandalf and Galadriel refuse to take the Ring when Frodo offers it to them, albeit under different circumstances. Elrond tries to get Isildur to destroy it, and makes no effort to take it from him by force (a la Sméagol and Deagol).

And there is the lovely scene in the film (lovely to me, I know your mileage varies) where Aragorn closes Frodo's hand over the Ring and sends him off on his way, rather than taking the Ring himself. Of course, that's not Tolkien, but its still a nice scene showing an important character not getting corrupted by potentially possessing the Ring.


Presumably, everyone listed above (and Samwise as well) would eventually be corrupted by the Ring if they had fully taken possession of it. Galadriel says as much for herself. It would have taken some longer to fall than others, but only Bombadil was truly immune. That said, we are starting to wander far from the topic of this thread!

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 13, 10:54pm)


kzer_za
Lorien

Aug 13, 11:49pm

Post #31 of 40 (330 views)
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Yep, kind of what I was going to say... [In reply to] Can't Post

Faramir, Gandalf, Galadriel, and movie Aragorn aren't corrupted because they know how dangerous the Ring is and have the wisdom the stay away from it (while Denethor knows it's dangerous, but thinks he's wise enough to use it). As Gandalf famously says (paraphrasing) "I would take the ring out of the desire to do good, but from it would come a power too terrible to imagine." Bombadil is his own bizarre category, and for Elrond we really know very little of his encounter with Isildur or what might have been in his mind.

Sam had the Ring for a very short time. In that brief span, he has a very vivid temptation scene, as "Samwise the Strong, hero of the age." Frodo doesn't really have power fantasies like this; for him the Ring's temptation is usually more elemental as a simple overwhelming force. To his credit Sam resists of course, but with more time I'm sure he would have succumbed. In the book the Ring doesn't affect Frodo all that much in the early stages either, Nazgul encounters aside.

And like Voronwe I like that movie Aragorn scene very much. While PJ & co. invented some stupid things, he has some rather nice original scenes too like that one, Theodred's funeral and Bilbo's acorn. Let us hope the many scenes the Amazon show will invent are closer to those kind of things than the undead cocoa puffs or bunny sled chase!


(This post was edited by kzer_za on Aug 13, 11:55pm)


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 14, 3:40am

Post #32 of 40 (294 views)
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Not all who wander are lost! [In reply to] Can't Post

There's not really any news about the show to discuss anyway, and I've never been a fan of idle speculation.

In any event, we don't really know that Tom was immune from the Ring's corruption, because he didn't really possess it either. All we know is that it didn't make him invisible, but Gandalf implies that only mortals are made invisible by Rings of Power, and neither he nor Galadriel (nor Elrond) are made invisible when they wear their Rings of Power.

That having been said, I do think that Tom was immune from the power of the Ring because he was not really part of the universe of Middle-earth.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


fantasywind
The Shire

Aug 14, 2:02pm

Post #33 of 40 (247 views)
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Retrofitting characters and Tom Bombadil [In reply to] Can't Post

Speaking of characters from Lotr who would definitely be alive in Second Age, some minor elven characters could be added, they were around back then after all. So characters like:

Erestor
Galdor of the Havens
Gildor Inglorion
Lindir
Glorfindel (texts of HoME allude to him being the same Glorfindel from Gondolin returned to Middle-earth, but it's too difficult to tell whether the Amazon could use this)

All of them could get some role as side characters in the story focusing in Elves, in Lindon with Gil-galad or in Eregion. In general the lists of characters that people posted already, are good enough but it all depends on the time period and specific story in SA they want to tell, so if this would be period of:

Forging the Rings of Power/War of the Elves and Sauron
then characters as mentioned

Galadriel
Celeborn
Celebrian (because why not she is mentioned in UT even if she doesn't have particular importance for the story at hand)
Amdir/Malgalad and Amroth (they could appear too because of the Galadriel's interest in Lorinand, but their role would be bigger for Last Alliance period)
Gil-galad
Elrond (of course the two are important)
Cirdan Shipwright (he is the most underappreciated character in Tolkien ever, he is the oldest elf alive and remembers all history and took part in shaping it, took part in most wars and battles starting since First Age in Beleriand till the Third Age wars against Angmar)

Akallabeth time period
the Donwnfall of Numenor story would benefit from adding to the previously mentioned list such characters like

Inzilbêth (for the context besides it would add some interesting drama)
Lindórië and her brother Eärendur, the Lord of Andúnië
Ar-Gimilzôr
Inziladun/Tar-Palantir
Gimilkhâd
Ar-Pharazôn
Tar-Miriel
Sauron
Amandil
Elendil
Isildur
Anarion (plus their wives and sons, eldest sons of Isildur born in Numenor, also Meneldil son of Anarion was the last man born in Numenor though he was 1 year old at the Downfall, still it's additional character)
so also Elendur, Aratan, Ciryon (Valandil the youngest was a child during War of the Last Alliance, plus the elder sons are mentioned more prominently in Disaster of Gladden Fields where they even get 'speaking lines' but here's the problem since Disaster of Gladden Fields is very beginning of Third Age so...)

As far as Tom Bombadil goes I was never bothered by him, he and Goldberry are side adventure but with connection to main Lotr plot (Tom is the one who provides plot important daggers of Westernesse for the Hobbit which allows to kill Witch-king, he also saves heroes hides two times) he serves some purposes in story, he shows there is depth to the world and as Tolkien specified in letters Tom Bombadil is intentional enigma expanding the world and it's mysterious forces. Tolkien also wrote:


Quote
“‘I don’t think Tom needs to philosophizing about, and is not impoved by it. But many have found him and odd or indeed discordant ingredient. In historical fact I put him in because I had already ‘invented’ him independently…and wanted an ‘adventure’ on the way. But I kept him in, and as he was, because he represents certain things otherwise left out…..he is then an ‘allegory’, or an exemplar, a particular embodying of pure (real) natural science: the spirit that desires knowledge of other things, their history and nature, because they are ‘other’ and wholly independent of the enquiring mind, a spirit coeval with the rational mind, and entirely unconcerned with ‘doing’ anything with the knowledge: Zoology and Botany not Cattle-breeding or Agriculture….Also T. B. exhibits another point in his attitude to the Ring, and its failure to affect him….The power of the Ring over all concerned, even the Wizards or Emissaries, is not delusion-but it is not the whole picture, even of the then state and content of the Universe.*'” (Tolkien, Letter 153, p 192)


Tom Bombadil and Treebeard plus several other oldest Ents have little role per se but they are out there in the background in those times. At best they could get cameos. As Treebeard said (and Elrond mentioned it as one quote posted by someone showed).


Quote
"Aye, aye, there was all one wood once upon a time: from here to the Mountains of Lune, and this was just the East End.

'Those were the broad days! Time was when I could walk and sing all day and hear no more than the echo of my own voice in the hollow hills. The woods were like the woods of Lothlórien. only thicker stronger, younger. And the smell of the air! I used to spend a week just breathing.'



Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Aug 14, 3:16pm

Post #34 of 40 (228 views)
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Great post! [In reply to] Can't Post

As I said before, I am not generally a big fan of idle speculation (though that is about all we have at this point), but that is a well developed, well-thought-out, and well-stated post. Well done!



Quote
Erestor
Galdor of the Havens
Gildor Inglorion
Lindir
Glorfindel (texts of HoME allude to him being the same Glorfindel from Gondolin returned to Middle-earth, but it's too difficult to tell whether the Amazon could use this)


It's unclear whether Amazon can use any of them, really. If the rights to LOTR remain with the Zaentz Company and were not included in this deal, it could be that they can't use any characters from LOTR at all. That would be odd, and I don't really believe it to be the case. But at this point we just don't know. Though it may be worth taking another look at the rights issue.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 14, 3:28pm

Post #35 of 40 (228 views)
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Glorfindel and Other Elves [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Speaking of characters from Lotr who would definitely be alive in Second Age, some minor elven characters could be added, they were around back then after all. So characters like:

Erestor
Galdor of the Havens
Gildor Inglorion
Lindir
Glorfindel (texts of HoME allude to him being the same Glorfindel from Gondolin returned to Middle-earth, but it's too difficult to tell whether the Amazon could use this)


Yes, most (if not all) of these characters would have hailed from the First Age. Most might even have been part of the Councils of the Wise that we know included Elrond, Círdan, Galadriel and probably Celeborn and Amroth of Lórien, though Glorfindel would just as likely have dwelt in Valinor during the time of the series; the subject of when he and the Blue Wizards arrived in Middle-earth is a controversial one.

I'm not convinced that Lindir would have been counted among the Wise; as far as we know he was little more than an elven minstral who had befriended Bilbo in Rivendell. This is supported by the fact that Lindir is not named as one of the Eldar who took part in the Council of Elrond.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 14, 3:36pm)


InTheChair
Lorien

Aug 14, 3:58pm

Post #36 of 40 (221 views)
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Doesn't it mean something like The Enemy commander? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've also seen it speculated* that the Gothmog who was the lieutenant of Minas Morgul and who commanded Sauron's army at the Battle of the Pelennor Fields following the fall of the Lord of the Nazgûl might also have been a Ringwraith.

This is possible, although if they intend to pay any kind of homage to the meaning of Sindarin names using the name Gothmog would be doubtful.


(This post was edited by InTheChair on Aug 14, 3:59pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 14, 4:20pm

Post #37 of 40 (214 views)
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Gothmog [In reply to] Can't Post

In The Silmarillion, at least, Gothmog seems to have been a proper name given to the Lord of the Balrogs. The Gothmog of the Battle of the Pelannor Fields is clearly a different character, but he does seem to share the same name. It does not seem to be used as a title.


Quote
...if the Rohirrim at their onset were thrice outnumbered by the Haradrim alone, soon their case became worse; for a new strength came now streaming to the field out of Osgiliath. There they had been mustered for the sack of the city and the rape of Gondor, waiting for the call of their Captain. He was now destroyed, but Gothmog the lieutenant of Morgul had flung them into the fray; Easterlings with axes, and Variags of Khand, Southrons in scarlet, and out of Far Harad black men like half-trolls with white eyes and red tongues.


Now, Gothmog might well have been an Uruk, Olog-hai (Black Troll) or even a Man (perhaps of Black Númenórean descent). It is pure speculation to suppose that he might have been a Nazgûl. It seems most likely to me that he was Uruk-hai.

The name itself does sound Sindarin, but maybe it had been adapted into the Black Speech.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 14, 4:28pm)


Solicitr
Rohan

Aug 15, 3:53pm

Post #38 of 40 (170 views)
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Since [In reply to] Can't Post

...the Lieutenant of Barad-dur, the Mouth of Sauron, was a Black Numenorean it wouldn't be a stretch to opine that the Lieutenant of Morgul was one also.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 15, 3:59pm

Post #39 of 40 (167 views)
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Possibly [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
[Since]...the Lieutenant of Barad-dur, the Mouth of Sauron, was a Black Numenorean it wouldn't be a stretch to opine that the Lieutenant of Morgul was one also.


Maybe, though Gothmog seems (to me, at least) an unlikely name for a Man of Black Númenórean descent unless it was bestowed upon him by Sauron himself. This might make it, effectively, a title, if not a formal one.

"Change is inevitable. Growth is optional." - DRWolf (after John C. Maxwell)


Wainrider
Bree

Aug 16, 11:09pm

Post #40 of 40 (124 views)
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Characters [In reply to] Can't Post

The only ones I'm really interested in "meeting" are Gil Galad, Celembrimbor, Círdan and maybe Ar-Pharazon.

If they skip Cirdan again (the two second clip in the Movie doesn't count) I think we should boycott Cool.

 
 

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