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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
A map for the tv show relaesed
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uncle Iorlas
Rivendell


Feb 15, 10:01pm

Post #26 of 85 (1514 views)
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Christopher hates it. [In reply to] Can't Post

My understanding is he wanted nothing to do with the deal but was outvoted. He seems to have more or less recused himself and Simon seems to be taking point. As far as I know, anyway.


duats
Grey Havens

Feb 16, 12:26am

Post #27 of 85 (1477 views)
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I'm confused [In reply to] Can't Post

Are they hinting that the series will take place during the Second Age?


Lissuin
Valinor


Feb 16, 1:03am

Post #28 of 85 (1461 views)
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Nice catch. Thanks. / [In reply to] Can't Post

 


uncle Iorlas
Rivendell


Feb 16, 2:35am

Post #29 of 85 (1447 views)
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How do you figure? [In reply to] Can't Post

I for one would like to think so but I don't see why.


MoreMorgoth
Bree

Feb 16, 1:36pm

Post #30 of 85 (1337 views)
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On the Eastern front [In reply to] Can't Post

If the series takes place in the far East involving the adventures of a young Aragorn, let us not forget that two of the Istari - Alatar and Pallando - went East and vanished from the revealed history of Middle-earth.

The possibility to involve one or both could loom large as a way to replace Gandalf and Saruman with new characters but whose general occupation is known to viewers.

They could even make one the opponent of the other to create a villain if they wanted to go that route although it does sound too much like Gandalf & Saruman in LOTR.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Feb 16, 2:57pm

Post #31 of 85 (1328 views)
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The Mountains of the East? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Has The added stuff To The east Of rhun been on any od
Official Map Before? Be it Tolkien unreleased scribble or invention by someone else.

If this is an amazon invention, this does not sit well with me at All.

Please someone show me This is rooted in Canon somehow

Also, Cool we finally got something!


Well, Tolkien himself sketched out an illustration of Arda in the First Age that included the Mountains of the East:



This could be that same range, the original home of four of the Seven Fathers of the Dwarves. Avari Elves might still dwell in the forests on the western side of the range. Granted, I would be tempted to place the Orocarni even further east and this could even be a different range. One wonders if Aragorn might have ever looked out over the East Sea?

There also seems to be an interactive version of Amazon's map: https://www.amazon.com/...p;tag=gizmodoamzn-20.Presumably, details will be added at later dates.

"I reject your reality and substitute my own." - Adam Savage

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Feb 16, 3:11pm)


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan

Feb 16, 6:38pm

Post #32 of 85 (1277 views)
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Apparently, those mountains are on a map for the movies [In reply to] Can't Post

According to Fentony on YouTube, whose channel I trust - and besides, he showed a map for the trilogy that showed those mountains on it, so I don't know if this is actually anything at all.

I love The Hobbit. Always will.


Ataahua
Superuser


Feb 16, 7:26pm

Post #33 of 85 (1246 views)
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Oh I hope not. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
let us not forget that two of the Istari - Alatar and Pallando - went East and vanished from the revealed history of Middle-earth.

The possibility to involve one or both could loom large


That plotline wouldn't gybe with the Aragorn we have in LOTR. He'd become a Ranger who hangs out with Gandalf but never says, "By the way, I met your brothers. Do you want to know what they've been getting up to over the centuries?"

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Chen G.
Rohan

Feb 16, 7:38pm

Post #34 of 85 (1244 views)
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You're right! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
According to Fentony on YouTube, whose channel I trust - and besides, he showed a map for the trilogy that showed those mountains on it.


Holly damn, it is there!

Its in the shot of the map in the prologue to The Fellowship of the Ring -with the adjecent forest and all - and its NOT the Iron Hills. In fact, you can see the inscription "Mountains of the East."

https://i0.wp.com/caps.pictures/200/1-lotr-fellowship/full/lotr1-movie-screencaps.com-104.jpg?strip=all


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Feb 16, 7:43pm)


squire
Half-elven


Feb 16, 7:45pm

Post #35 of 85 (1236 views)
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Now, now [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm as nervous as anyone else about the degree of contrivance and invention that lies ahead in this show, but we certainly can't claim to know everything Gandalf and Aragorn have talked about over their decades of friendship. We don't even know what any of the Company talked about during the period the book covers, either over the campfire at night, or during endless days of hiking together, except at moments that drive the plot.

The Blue Wizards have the most fan interest, for the least actual mention in the book, of any part of Lord of the Rings that I can think of. I won't be at all surprised if they make an appearance in this series, as they are at least characters, or rather identities, that Tolkien invented himself. Unlike, say, the adventurous Took sidekick that Aragorn will take with him on his adventures to the East; or the Mouth of Sauron's father who will try to entrap them in an attempt to conceal the growing cult of Sauron-worshippers lurking in the Black Mountains of Rhun.



squire online:
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Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rohan

Feb 16, 7:50pm

Post #36 of 85 (1225 views)
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I'd be pretty interested to see the Blue Wizards [In reply to] Can't Post

They're majestic figures when I envision them, one clad in turquoise, the other in indigo. Pallando is an alchemist of sorts, while Alatar practices more ceremonial magic, and weaves his way through the courts and politics of the Haradrim. Just a thought.

I love The Hobbit. Always will.

(This post was edited by Thor 'n' Oakenshield on Feb 16, 7:51pm)


squire
Half-elven


Feb 16, 7:54pm

Post #37 of 85 (1230 views)
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Thanks for that link [In reply to] Can't Post

I was trying to think why that version of the map would ever have been made. The films' map and manuscript artist Daniel Reeve doesn't feature it in his website, probably because the right side is (ahem) made up, along the lines of "neo-geography".

And as someone else may have already pointed out, the reason for the invented 'Mountains of the East' here is certainly to center the 'growing power of Mordor' animated effect in a wide-screen composition. I wonder if they didn't try to set up the shot with one of Reeve's masterful copies of the actual Tolkien map, discovered it didn't look right, and ask him for another with more filler on the right side?



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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MoreMorgoth
Bree

Feb 16, 9:44pm

Post #38 of 85 (1177 views)
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Aragorn and the Istari [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
let us not forget that two of the Istari - Alatar and Pallando - went East and vanished from the revealed history of Middle-earth.

The possibility to involve one or both could loom large


That plotline wouldn't gybe with the Aragorn we have in LOTR. He'd become a Ranger who hangs out with Gandalf but never says, "By the way, I met your brothers. Do you want to know what they've been getting up to over the centuries?"


Those conversations happened off camera. Or the Blue Wizards were so different from Gandalf and Saruman that Aragorn never made the connection.


uncle Iorlas
Rivendell


Feb 16, 10:40pm

Post #39 of 85 (1166 views)
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Am I bluuuuuuuuuuue [In reply to] Can't Post

They're a tempting opportunity for eastern plotlines. We were going to use them if we did that material--and just to annoy Squire, we had thought to make one a woman. But as for Aragorn, he might easily have some intrigue involving one without realizing that this was one of Gandalf's own order per se, no?


squire
Half-elven


Feb 16, 10:56pm

Post #40 of 85 (1159 views)
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Ai yi yi [In reply to] Can't Post

How did you guess that just might annoy me? I need to toughen my skin if I'm going to make it through this thing, I see.

When embarking on a project like this, one not of adaptation but of original invention within an author's world, does the creative team start by laying out their working principles of 'thus far, and no farther'? Kind of like a bible of good practice in doing adaptations, only for original fan-fiction.

Or is it, "Anything goes if it makes a good screenplay. There's a heck of a lot of money at stake, and the audience won't care about modernization, style changes, ideological and political mickey-mouse, or anachronistic expression, so long as the adventure is gripping, the dialog crackles, the sex is hot, -- and all the names and places sound kind of like they're from the original book."



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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kzer_za
Lorien

Feb 16, 11:51pm

Post #41 of 85 (1136 views)
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Which again brings in the question of how closely the estate is involved... [In reply to] Can't Post

 I'm hoping it's close enough to veto anything too ridiculous and set some boundaries. But we will have to wait and see.


(This post was edited by kzer_za on Feb 16, 11:55pm)


Althoun
Rivendell

Feb 17, 12:03am

Post #42 of 85 (1125 views)
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Second Age [In reply to] Can't Post

Agreed, like you I think the Second Age is unlikely.

That said, some have been speculating that the Twitter feed's reference to the "rings of power" could potencially be suggestive of a Second Age setting based around that particular arch - not dissimilar to your own original proposal.


(This post was edited by Althoun on Feb 17, 12:14am)


Victariongreyjoy
Lorien


Feb 17, 12:03am

Post #43 of 85 (1126 views)
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Fleshing out the Easterlings is not a bad idea [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't mind if Aragorn's journey to the east we'll be able to learn more of the Easterlings. They were SO underused in the movies, and I would like to see more of them. I hope Amazon will reuse the design of their amor or rebrand them.


(This post was edited by Victariongreyjoy on Feb 17, 12:12am)


kzer_za
Lorien

Feb 17, 12:09am

Post #44 of 85 (1122 views)
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That it's referencing the Second Age is not impossible [In reply to] Can't Post

However, my guess is they're just slowly going line-by-line through the Ring poem as an initial teaser, which is the book's epigraph after all. Note that they even cut off with the comma on the first line. So we would likely get the Seven and the Nine next.


(This post was edited by kzer_za on Feb 17, 12:11am)


balbo biggins
Rohan


Feb 17, 2:57am

Post #45 of 85 (1085 views)
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Accept? [In reply to] Can't Post

Learn more about the easterlings? There's nothing written about the easterlings. Are we just casually gonna accept anything amazon makes up and slots into this world?

Where is everyone's loyalty and common sense, we know what happens when people try to invent stuff, three hobbit films proved that. it goes badly and gets turned into trivial nonsense because someone has to write it up to a TV deadline, unlike tolkien who invested a lifetime of learning into these stories.


kzer_za
Lorien

Feb 17, 3:55am

Post #46 of 85 (1067 views)
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You can invent things in a way that is respectful [In reply to] Can't Post

There are invented scenes in PJ's movies that pretty much everyone likes, such as Aragorn and Frodo at Amon Hen and Theodred's funeral. And others that are derived from the book but different enough to almost be new scenes, such as "you bow to no one" and Bilbo waking up in regret after the party. Of course this is not to deny he has some rather bad scenes too, like the skull avalanche and "because it was real", and some that are divisive (I like the Osgiliath detour, but many disagree).

There are going to be a good number of invented characters, scenes, and (at least sub-) plots no matter where they go because the details are sparse for the medium of television. This would apply even to the First Age, where so much is in broad mythic strokes - .you try to film Beren and Luthien straight without adding anything, and it would be one or two awkward scattershot TV episodes. The only possible exception you could make a season or two out of with only minor-to-moderate additions is Children of Hurin/Wanderings of Hurin, and even that still has the problem of sufficiently establishing its world for the viewer. (I would love to see Aldarion and Erendis adapted in some medium one day, but that too would require modifications and additions).

Some of the games, such as the LotR LCG and the One Ring tabletop RPG, have done a good job inventing material in a careful and respectful way that fits with the rest of the world. I wouldn't want to start out in Harad or Rhun, but if they have the right writers and have proven themselves in the more central parts of Middle-Earth after a few seasons? Sure, go for it.


(This post was edited by kzer_za on Feb 17, 4:08am)


skyofcoffeebeans
Rivendell

Feb 17, 4:35am

Post #47 of 85 (1044 views)
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Sounds like you should sit this show out [In reply to] Can't Post

There is no scenario where invention is not the name of this game, nor in most adaptations and expansions of prior source material.


Dunadan of North Arnor
Bree

Feb 17, 11:06am

Post #48 of 85 (1015 views)
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CT “undoubtedly the most ardent Tolkien purist in existence”? [In reply to] Can't Post

Does the ‘Ruin of Doriath’ and Guy Kay, make you rethink this at all?

Wink


2ndBreffest
Lorien


Feb 17, 1:02pm

Post #49 of 85 (981 views)
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sadly yes [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sure Amazon money is difficult to turn down. This series will probably be garbage like most modern day entertainment, but well crafted and marketed to make lots of money.


MoreMorgoth
Bree

Feb 17, 1:56pm

Post #50 of 85 (971 views)
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Got any lottery numbers for us? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm sure Amazon money is difficult to turn down. This series will probably be garbage like most modern day entertainment, but well crafted and marketed to make lots of money.


Just how much of the finished series have you seen enabling you to make this judgement?

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