Our Sponsor Sideshow Collectibles Send us News
Lord of the Rings Tolkien
Search Tolkien
Lord of The RingsTheOneRing.net - Forged By And For Fans Of JRR Tolkien
Lord of The Rings Serving Middle-Earth Since The First Age

Lord of the Rings Movie News - J.R.R. Tolkien
Do you enjoy the 100% volunteer, not for profit services of TheOneRing.net?
Consider a donation!

  Main Index   Search Posts   Who's Online   Log in
The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Middle-earth TV Series Discussion:
What if it were you?
First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All

Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 28, 1:24pm

Post #51 of 81 (2948 views)
Shortcut
Rights Issues [In reply to] Can't Post

This is what uncle Iorlas wrote in a previous post:


Quote
...the rights framework was very odd, in that we apparently couldn't use anything that was stated only in the Silmarillion or the Hobbit, or any text beyond LOTR, but we were also not allowed to contradict any of that, as far as I heard. (Although of course that can't be true absolutely.)


This throws serious doubt as to whether Amazon controls the television rights to The Hobbit.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


uncle Iorlas
Bree


Aug 28, 7:01pm

Post #52 of 81 (2909 views)
Shortcut
Hobbit rights [In reply to] Can't Post

Realky I hae no idea. I was given to understand, while working up a pitch, that we had LOTR cover to cover and nothing else. But this could have arisen at any point along the telephone chain between Amazon and me, and for all I know could have changed eight times since then.


uncle Iorlas
Bree


Aug 28, 7:23pm

Post #53 of 81 (2899 views)
Shortcut
I mean [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Can you really invert those two events though? It seems essential to me that the destruction of Númenor is the event that signals the beginning of the end of the Second Age, and that really needs to come after the forging of the Great Rings and the War of the Elves and Sauron, if only to end the war and bring the Dark Lord to Númenor.


...where we dare not follow him, cos that's all Sil. And there's no need to bring him there when it's already gone. I know, it's a change and a half, but I don't think Sauron farting around Numenor for a few centuries and then boggling his ring all the way home to Mordor is really the best part of the second age anyhow.

As to can you really invert them, of course you can. Can you really delete Glorfindel and Bombadil, let a troll squish Frodo like a bug, make every elf blonde and most of them anime ninjas, have orcs and dwarves generally conversant with the use of Gandalf's supposedly nameless underground creatures as sandworm slash nydus canals, march Elrond's household to Helm's deep, shoot Saruman dead out of sheer annoyance, and then have Sauron know for a fact exactly where the Ring is, when it is barely guarded and closer to him than Minas Tirith?

No, dude. No way! Except yes. Apparently.

I promise you, I gold-plated promise you, that whatever show Amazon eventually coughs up will involve bigger changes than moving the fall of Numenor ahead.


uncle Iorlas
Bree


Aug 28, 7:46pm

Post #54 of 81 (2899 views)
Shortcut
I do want to know! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you as always. I once read the Unfinished Tales on the druedain--is all of this material in there or is there more? Had I won the job, I meant immediately to buy every page of it and set about catching myself up, but alas there is much left for me to read. If only Amazon had known that I could "channel" the author, maybe I'd have won! But even my mediocre command of the subject is enough to know a little of how the professor intentionally used his little Englishmen.

I didn't think I was stretching that much on the Stoors, though. I should review.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 28, 11:56pm

Post #55 of 81 (2862 views)
Shortcut
As Ian Malcolm might have said: [In reply to] Can't Post

Just because you can do something doesn't mean that you should. I just don't see how any purpose is served in moving the sinking of Númenor to take place before the War of the Elves and Sauron (much less the forging of the Great Rings).

But speaking of Peter Jackson, since you brought it up: The Elves he brought to Helm's Deep were Galadrim from Lothlórien, not High Elves from Rivendell. Yes, I know that it makes no sense that they were bearing a message from Elrond, but take that up with the Kiwi director.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


uncle Iorlas
Bree


Sep 1, 4:26am

Post #56 of 81 (2465 views)
Shortcut
well [In reply to] Can't Post

The chief point of course was to avoid talking about Numenor much, because of the rights situation. But I don't want to argue it; I just wanted to talk about some of my favorite bits, after being prompted to approach the backstory in a very new way. I'll say this: I didn't love making that big of a change, I'd rather do it straight or pretty durn close to straight, but I thought it was a workable workaround for the circumstances. And all along, of course, I was thinking: Amazon is committed. If we don't nab this thing, somebody else will, and almost any possible somebody else is going to make mincemeat of it compared to what we'd be trying to do.

And so, in the end, it shall be.

I stand corrected on the Jackson, though I don't think it makes much difference. It was hearsay anyhow. I never watched any of his movies after the first. It was clear they weren't suddenly going to become good. I did at one point see the last fifteen minutes or so of his final Hobbit movie, which was true to form; visually sumptuous, dumb in its particulars even for a viewer with no previous knowledge, and completely on a planet for a viewer who knows the book. And now the new show is seemingly tied to the inventions of that guy. Clang. The show is alive but a prisoner of the enemy.


uncle Iorlas
Bree


Sep 1, 4:31am

Post #57 of 81 (2465 views)
Shortcut
whoops [In reply to] Can't Post

I should also review your posts, apparently. I see where you mention your other source on Druedain.


InTheChair
Lorien

Sep 2, 1:01pm

Post #58 of 81 (2330 views)
Shortcut
Aragorn is human, of a sort, so I don't know if they need hobbits. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
The studio wanted hobbits, for one thing.


In what capacity? As characters involved in the travels? Or merely as habitat in some parts of the world?

It's kind of difficult to shove hobbits into the travels of Aragorn, except for a few episodes where he may travel in their part of the world.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 2, 1:29pm

Post #59 of 81 (2328 views)
Shortcut
Potential for Hobbits [In reply to] Can't Post

If the show does primarily focus on the early travels of Aragorn then, yes, the possibilities for including much of the hobbits are pretty limited. On the other hand, if the series is more of an anthology then there could be arcs devoted to some hobbity adventures:
- the story of Bullroarer Took and the Battle of Greenfields.
- tales of those three remarkable Took sisters: Belladonna, Donnamira and Mirabella.
- the account of the company of hobbit archers that marched off to fight for the king of Arthedain.
- hobbit lads and lasses who were inspired by Gandalf to visit Elves or sail on ships (or both?).
- other young hobbits inspired by Bilbo's mad tales.
- Bree-folk, both Big and Small, getting into mischief.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Sep 2, 1:30pm)


Mari D.
Bree


Sep 2, 10:23pm

Post #60 of 81 (2266 views)
Shortcut
I'd really like to see this [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
- tales of those three remarkable Took sisters: Belladonna, Donnamira and Mirabella.


Maybe because I like the sound of the names so much ... feels like they are bound to be interesting and unconventional characters. ^^


(This post was edited by Mari D. on Sep 2, 10:25pm)


uncle Iorlas
Bree


Sep 2, 11:14pm

Post #61 of 81 (2261 views)
Shortcut
Aragornian hobbits are pretty feasible. [In reply to] Can't Post

He knows hobbits, and there are hobbits outside the Shire in his day; remember that Frodo in Bree claims he is writing about extrashirical hobbits, and is quickly given reams of information and leads for it. There must be something there to be said, and I don't think it can be Breelanders alo e. There could easily be pocket populations across the north, even to the northern end of the Misties and beyond. Maybe less settled and secure than in the Shire, and by the same token less insulated from danger and forgetful of it. Aragorn, of all the humans we meet, seems yo knoe and understand hobbits. And anyway there is the Shire itself; he can have known hobbits there before.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 3, 1:08am

Post #62 of 81 (2238 views)
Shortcut
Wild Hobbits of the Vales of Anduin [In reply to] Can't Post

You might be interested to know, uncle Iorlas, that in the setting of The One Ring Roleplaying Game some Hobbits can still be found living hidden along the banks of the Anduin between the years of the Battle of Five Armies and the War of the Ring.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


uncle Iorlas
Bree


Sep 3, 7:33pm

Post #63 of 81 (1990 views)
Shortcut
I don't think we'll see any sort of anthology. [In reply to] Can't Post

It seemed clear that Amazon wanted long plot arcs and long-running characters. I had a number of ideas of the anthology sort as well, and it could be fun to get there eventually, but at least until they feel established they're going to run one ongoing story, pretty sure.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Sep 3, 7:49pm

Post #64 of 81 (1986 views)
Shortcut
Agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just engaging in some speculation in response to the previous post.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison


Silverlode
Forum Admin


Sep 4, 3:24am

Post #65 of 81 (1920 views)
Shortcut
There is also [In reply to] Can't Post

the fact that the Rangers have been secretly protecting the Shire for years before the events of LOTR. Strider is well known in Bree, or at least at the Prancing Pony. That could be a recurring sort of base location for Aragorn, and could even serve as a sort of framing device at the beginning or end of adventure arcs, in much the same way that Rivendell could. Bilbo was known to go visit the Elves...I can't remember off the top of my head if there is anything to tell us exactly when he met Aragorn. When we see him in Rivendell, he obviously has known him for some time: he's written a verse about him "that goes with" his name by the time of LOTR, so much so that Gandalf uses it as a major part of his identification in the letter he left for Frodo. So it's quite possible that Bilbo met Aragorn well before he finally left the Shire for Rivendell. So there is potential to include their meeting(s), invent a story that might result in Bilbo writing a poem about him (which includes references to his "wandering" and his kingly destiny), and it's even possible that Aragorn escorted Bilbo to Rivendell when he decided to go. It seems quite possible that Gandalf, being in on the secret of Bilbo's leaving the Shire, might have asked Aragorn to help make sure Bilbo got safely there - even though Bilbo likely had dwarvish escort for at least part of the way, seeing he went all the way to the Lonely Mountain to visit before coming back and settling down in Rivendell.
Rangers protecting the Shire could open up possibilities for stories about not only hobbit adventures, but fighting a number of the dangers nearby that Strider says would "freeze the blood" of the men and hobbits of Bree and the Shire, if they knew about them. There could also be stories of intrigue having to do with Saruman's attempts to infiltrate the Shire and set up his pipeweed supply, bribe or coerce Lotho, as well as Bill Ferny and the half-orcs in Bree. The Rangers could thwart a good number of these plots over the years just by cracking down on local smuggling or black market dealings, incursions of orcish folk into the neighborhood, adventures in the Old Forest or Barrowdowns, etc., even without knowing that Saruman was behind some of them.

Silverlode

Roads go ever ever on
Under cloud and under star
Yet feet that wandering have gone
Turn at last to home afar.
Eyes that fire and sword have seen
And horror in the halls of stone
Look at last on meadows green
And trees and hills they long have known.




manofmordor
The Shire


Oct 20, 7:04pm

Post #66 of 81 (911 views)
Shortcut
Multiple seasons each with different story. [In reply to] Can't Post

If I were running the TV Show I would make a 5 Season show each with different story.

Season 1: The Orgins Of Sauron
Season 2: Beren And Luthien
Season 3: The Fall Of Gondolin
Season 4: The Children Of Hurin
Season 5: The Ents And The Entwives

And then a final episode, narrated by Galadriel sort of tying all the stories together a solid episode of Galadriel and her view on all of middle earth. I would call it "The Tales Of Middle-Earth". What do you guys think?


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 20, 7:08pm

Post #67 of 81 (908 views)
Shortcut
What if you were limited to 'LotR'? [In reply to] Can't Post

Those are interesting choices, but how would you break down the seasons if your only source could be The Lord of the Rings and its appendices?

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 20, 7:11pm)


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rivendell

Oct 20, 7:35pm

Post #68 of 81 (897 views)
Shortcut
All History of Arnor [In reply to] Can't Post

5 Seasons of the history of Arnor, and its fall, would be awesome. So much potential. And it would include the events happening in Gondor at the same time, there would be Elrond and Glorfindel, Celebrian, Arwen, Galadriel, and Arnor already strikes me as an environment where you could do Game of Throne type stuff, with all the politics of the three princedoms. And the Witch-King, and Barrow-Wights, even Tom Bombadil. It would be great.

Season 1: Starts with Earendur's death and the division of Arnor. Rise of Angmar. Ends with the kings of Arthedain claiming lordship over all of Arnor.
Season 2: The claim resisted by Rhudaur. Argeleb's death. Lots of battle and death, the invasion of 1409. Elrond and Galadriel combine forces to subdue Angmar's power.
Season 3: The plague, and the return of the Witch-king. King Arvedui, and his claim on the throne of Gondor. Fornost captured. Earnur sent north to help Arthedain.
Season 4: Arvedui's death, and the fall of Arnor. Earnur's arrival, and the last war against Angmar, culminating in Witch-king's defeat. The Last King of Gondor.
Season 5: Rangers?

There might be a better way to organize that. I did my best. Smile

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."


Chen G.
Rivendell

Oct 20, 9:26pm

Post #69 of 81 (884 views)
Shortcut
How does one make this character-centric? [In reply to] Can't Post

You can't take these historical events, which unfold over decades and centuries, and present them in a televised format as your main narrative: you need something that is contained within the life-time of some central character.

Personally, I'd have played around with the Tales of Years such that all major events of the Third Age (before the War of the Ring) coincided: so, the reign of Helm Hammerhand in Rohan and the war with Freca; the Easterling attacks and kinstrife in Gondor; and the War with Angmar in the North - and intercut between them.

I'd rather keep the Silmarillion for cinema. Personally, I've always thought you could make a great quadrology of it: Use Elrond as a framing device, and make a film about Beren and Luthien, with the Theft of the Silmarils as a prologue; two films about The Children of Hurin (with the return to Dor Lomin moved before the sack of Amon Rudh to close the first film), and lastly, a film about Tuor and the Fall of Gondolin, using the sack of Doriath as a prologue and intercutting none-linearly with the voyage of Earnedil, ending in the War of Wrath and a short epilogue connecting it to the Third Age.


(This post was edited by Chen G. on Oct 20, 9:26pm)


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rivendell

Oct 20, 9:48pm

Post #70 of 81 (877 views)
Shortcut
Yeah, good point [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know: I was just playing around with that. I like your idea, even though I don't think it would be entirely right to intertwine all the events of the Third Age that is so sprawling. The Silmarillion should be made into movies.
And I note that Otaku-sempai has suggested that the Amazon series be separated into separate anthologies, stories about different characters (like Aragorn's travels for 1 season, the attempt to take back Moria for another, so on and so on). But I'm not very fond of that idea either, actually.

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."

(This post was edited by Thor 'n' Oakenshield on Oct 20, 9:51pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 21, 2:02am

Post #71 of 81 (863 views)
Shortcut
The Anthology Format [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
And I note that Otaku-sempai has suggested that the Amazon series be separated into separate anthologies, stories about different characters (like Aragorn's travels for 1 season, the attempt to take back Moria for another, so on and so on). But I'm not very fond of that idea either, actually.


I don't necessarily recommend that approach; I just see it as one way the showrunner(s) might go with the series. However, it is essentially very similar to what you've been suggesting. The key would be to choose individual characters who could be the focus for the separate arcs. One such example would be Arvedui, Eärnur and the fall of Arthedain; that arc would either end tragically with the drowning of King Arvedui and his men at Forochel or continue to the downfall of Angmar. It could even include the mysterious fate of King Eärnur of Gondor since all of these events occur reasonable close together. Other characters could include: Elrond; Celebrían; Círdan; Gandalf the Grey; Saruman; Elladan; Elrohir; etc.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 21, 2:14am)


Mari D.
Bree


Oct 22, 9:18pm

Post #72 of 81 (747 views)
Shortcut
Or could you? Has anyone tried this? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
You can't take these historical events, which unfold over decades and centuries, and present them in a televised format as your main narrative: you need something that is contained within the life-time of some central character.


I wonder if it were possible to make such a series interesting by ... while the old generation of characters is still around, introducing new characters, thus creating overlaps, and preferably have the new characters interact with the old characters, before the old characters drop out of the story (get killed, die from old age) ...

Like a family saga. If you get across what the new characters mean to the old characters ... the viewer might adopt that attitude and ascribe significance to the "next generation" of characters more easily.


(This post was edited by Mari D. on Oct 22, 9:19pm)


Thor 'n' Oakenshield
Rivendell

Oct 23, 12:59am

Post #73 of 81 (740 views)
Shortcut
That was exactly what I had in mind [In reply to] Can't Post

A huge drama revolving around the royal families of Arthedain, Cardolan and Rhudaur, like a gigantic Game of Thrones type thing; obviously, some generations would have to be compressed, but I think it could be really awesome.

"Torment in the dark was the danger that I feared, and it did not hold me back. But I would not have come, had I known the danger of light and joy. Now I have taken my worst wound in this parting, even if I were to go this night straight to the Dark Lord."


squire
Half-elven


Oct 23, 2:22am

Post #74 of 81 (733 views)
Shortcut
Where is Tolkien in a massive multi-generational family saga of the three 'little kingdoms' that succeeded Arnor? [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean, it sounds good. Perfectly dramatic, and in line with the best standards of 2010's serial video fiction.

I'm not clear where J. R. R. Tolkien figures, though. He did not write a word of "family drama" for the dynasties of the three kingdoms.

I know this is a crank that must be ignored if we are to accept that Amazon has bought the rights to a multi-year video series 'based on' Tolkien's The Lord of the Rings, and that that is inherently a good thing because better locations may be found, and better set designs might happen, and excellent dialogue may be written based on fabulously telegenic character arcs. Still, when I see the pure enthusiasm for fan fiction on such a monstrous scale, seemingly validated by the occasional accurate mention of the kingdoms or battles that do appear in the LotR appendices, I ache to protest. I do.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Oct 23, 2:05pm

Post #75 of 81 (680 views)
Shortcut
The Silmarillion [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm not clear where J. R. R. Tolkien figures, though. He did not write a word of "family drama" for the dynasties of the three kingdoms.


When you think about it, the Quenta Silmarillion is just such a multi-generational saga starting with the awaking of the Elves and continuing through the First Age--arguably even extending to the histories of the Eldar and the Edain of the Second and Third Ages. It's largely a matter of connecting the dots and reading between the lines to draw out those connections (however tenuous some of them may seem to be).

We can see a clear progression in the middle of the Third Age from the downfall of Arthedain, the last days of King Arvedui, the fall of Angmar, the capture of Minas Ithil by the Nazgûl, to the end of the line of kings in Gondor with the presumed death (or undeath?) of King Eärnur. If filmed, the story could begin in T.A. 1940 with the union of Arvedui and Fíriel of Gondor, concluding over a century later in 2050 with Eärnur's defeat after riding out to answer the challenge of the Witch-king. We even get alliances between Arthedain, Gondor, and the Elves of Rivendell and the Grey Havens.

"For a brief time I was here; and for a brief time I mattered." - Harlan Ellison

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Oct 23, 2:20pm)

First page Previous page 1 2 3 4 Next page Last page  View All
 
 

Search for (options) Powered by Gossamer Forum v.1.2.3

home | advertising | contact us | back to top | search news | join list | Content Rating

This site is maintained and updated by fans of The Lord of the Rings, and is in no way affiliated with Tolkien Enterprises or the Tolkien Estate. We in no way claim the artwork displayed to be our own. Copyrights and trademarks for the books, films, articles, and other promotional materials are held by their respective owners and their use is allowed under the fair use clause of the Copyright Law. Design and original photography however are copyright © 1999-2012 TheOneRing.net. Binary hosting provided by Nexcess.net

Do not follow this link, or your host will be blocked from this site. This is a spider trap.