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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Dragon Problem (long)
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Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


May 4 2008, 4:53pm

Post #101 of 158 (3317 views)
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Not really trying to second guess you here... [In reply to] Can't Post

But you got me thinking about the environment thing. If I am getting you correctly, it would seem we'd be talking of a colour changing dragon. Not as a chamaeleon would be, but rather getting his color through reflection.

Meaning... he would be all but invisible if there is no light in the environment... BUT once a light is lit in the halls, with all the reflection of the treasure, he'd be amazingly golden/yellow/orange, and he'd get an entirely different palette once he goes out of the mountain to attack Dale, with changing tones resulting of the reflections of his own fire.

Perhaps I am way out there with that interpretation, but it does seem interesting. If the scales were metallic-looking, then possibilities of colour interaction with the environment are endless.

Interesting indeed! That is if I'm even remotely close to what you are thinking! Wink

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!


CaerLaw
Registered User


May 4 2008, 7:55pm

Post #102 of 158 (3016 views)
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My vision of Smaug... [In reply to] Can't Post

...will always be colored by the Rankin & Bass animated adaptation of "The Hobbit," where I first encountered anything to do with Tolkien and Middle-earth. I still hear Richard Boone's voice when I read Smaug's words; I still hear (and almost feel) the hiss and splash of his (poisonous?) saliva when he roars. And I love the way he has "whiskers" along his jowells, informed no doubt by the description, "mixed with a rumble as of a gigantic tom-cat purring." (BTW: I do like that John Howe's Smaug has bat-winged forelimbs ala Vermithrax of "Dragonslayer," rather than the four-legs-and-two-wings style of a European dragon, and the spikey things running down his crest and back are cool. But his head design just doesn't do it for me.)

One way to present Smaug that would heighten his menace-and-fear-factor would be to show him little by terrifying little. My guess is that we will first get sight of him through the dwarves' song in Bag End. There, he might only be a dark speck in the sky, then the roar of his wings and flaming breath.

In his hold under the Lonely Mountain, I'm hoping that when Bilbo (and we) first see him, it's in bits and--enormous--pieces: his tail, the massive talons, wings folded about him like some gigantic tent of scaled leather and bone, and finally the head, so large that Bilbo is smaller than one of his glowing eyes. When he bursts from the Mountain, it should be like an eruption of thunder and flame, filling the world with sound and ruin.

With the kind of terror that I am sure Guillermo and WETA are capable of producing, Smaug should have a voice to match, whoever does it. (Though my vote goes to Michael Wincott, who played Guy of Gisborne in "Robin Hood, Prince of Thieves.") A low, rumbling voice can be soothing and menacing at the same time. It needs to convey the magic of the Dragon Spell Smaug attempts to cast on Bilbo, and then rise slowly, inexorably in a terrible crescendo as he brags, "My armour is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane and my breath death!" Again, I love how this was animated and acted in the earlier adaptation, and see no reason for them to re-invent the wheel!

I've no doubt that when all is said and done, Smaug will be the dragon to end all other cinematic dragons, just as Shelob will forever be the greatest of the giant spiders--no matter how well the Mirkwood spiders are done. (They are, after all, Shelob's children.) He will set a new standard that all other filmed dragons will be judged against.

I must not fear.
Fear is the mind-killer.
Fear is the little-death that brings total obliteration.


Guillermo
Rivendell

May 4 2008, 10:34pm

Post #103 of 158 (3846 views)
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Well- [In reply to] Can't Post

Way out there CM- Way out there :)

GDT


Empedocles
Rivendell


May 4 2008, 10:51pm

Post #104 of 158 (3004 views)
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My guess [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm gonna take my guess at what Guillermo was hinting since it's so much fun to never be right about these types of things.

I believe the "context" maybe has to do with the fact that Smaug has been living inside the halls of the mountains for years, maybe decades, without coming out. I remember there was a line in the Hobbit that said that kids didn't believe the stories since no one had seen the dragon since the time of their grandfathers. So I'm guessing that the enclosed space in which he lives may have had some impact on his shape and color. If we're talking about color, Smaug will probably be more affected by the darkness (thus making him more pale looking) than by the brigthness of the treasure upon which he sleeps. Regarding the shape, I imagine that he will be a more reptile, terrestrial beast since he probably has not spread his wings for a long, long time, that's of course, untill he comes out of the mountain.

Guillermo!! Give us back Glorfindel!!!

(This post was edited by Empedocles on May 4 2008, 10:57pm)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


May 5 2008, 12:45am

Post #105 of 158 (3015 views)
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It could be he's [In reply to] Can't Post

mapping Smaug's look based on this line:


Quote
"The dragon stopped short in his boasting. "Your information is antiquated," he snapped. "I am armoured above and below with iron scales and hard gems. No blade can pierce me.""


Smaug would reflect his surroundings physically. If there's torchlight in the cavern or sunlight seeping in, that would also effect his appearance.



sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


diedye
Grey Havens


May 5 2008, 1:37am

Post #106 of 158 (2958 views)
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I'm surprised TORn... [In reply to] Can't Post

... hasn't posted this on the front page yet.

*tsk tsk*

Oh, those pesky Sunday hangovers...

Evil

Miss ? Then Join Us.



MrCere
Sr. Staff


May 5 2008, 1:45am

Post #107 of 158 (2917 views)
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Off to tell Rodrigo Santoro to keep looking for work [In reply to] Can't Post

His heavily done up voice for "300" is the closest thing I have heard for how I want to hear Smaug. I love that his accent suggest that English (or Middle-earth's Common translated into English for the sake of the audience) isn't his first language. I will be delighted at that magic moment when I hear "Smaug's" voice for the first time.

These are the salad days friends.

I have no choice but to believe in free will.

The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie




Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


May 5 2008, 2:03am

Post #108 of 158 (2987 views)
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That's more or less what I was thinking [In reply to] Can't Post

But you gave me yet another idea... it might just be that was Guillermo's hinting at, is that he'll be largely covered with gems... making him primarily golden (hence Smaug the Golden) but with rubies, emmeralds... etc. Making him rather policromatic, which could make him look really interesting, and really impressive under changing lights.

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!


Elven
Valinor


May 5 2008, 2:21am

Post #109 of 158 (2957 views)
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Another take ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Mods please remove this if its not correct and in the posting guidelines for Guillermo!!



Quote
-What I meant by the environment / Smaug relationship is about the way he is scaled, moves and is lit, limited or enhanced by his location, weather conditions, light conditions, time of the year, etc. That's all I can say without spoilers but, if you keep this curious little summary you'll realize several years form now that those things I had in my mind ever since doodling the character as a kid had solidified waaay before starting the shoot of the film.

Keep this little note...




Ive been thinking about this ... and can sort of deduct where this might fit in ... so I pulled some of the story from the Hobbit - the chapter 'Inside Information' apart and realized - there's no speaking ... well not when Bilbo first encounters Smaug ... so I can see this as very enviromental ... very visual and atmospheric.


So bear with me – my approach to nutting this through is a little segregated – but it did lead me to some conclusions – especially when Bilbo first encounters the dragon – his trip to the heart of the mountain, and his return to the Dwarves – then Smaugs awakening.

These are passages from a small section the book in the chapter Inside Information – where Bilbo first meets Smaug.
I divided them into the
1)Environment - sight and sound,
2)Smaug and
3)Bilbo, so they are in order under their headings ...

This is basically about Smaug and the environment and Bilbo ... and in it – not a word is spoken by Bilbo and the Dragon – but theres plenty of environment imagery and sound.

I chose this part of the book to demonstrate what I think Guillermo was talking about as I see it.

I noticed in Bilbos first encounter theres no true dialogue – unless you count Smaugs rant on the theif – but to voice it is not necessary ... it may well be that Smaug doesn’t actually speak yet, and maybe thats how it might be ... we meet Smaug but (as in the book) he speaks later ...
But there is plenty of imagery and there is a multitude of sound which sets this scene – so maybe this is what GdT was talking about.

After I looked through it - I could determine what I thought this might look like - or is that just me .. LOL!



THE ENVIRONMENT OF THE LONEY MOUNTAIN
Visual text from The Hobbit book.
... “Tomorrow begins the last week of autumn”, said Thorin one day. “And Winter comes after Autumn” said Bifur. (my note: Seasonally, if Smaug is a Dragon like any other, they have chosen a good time to approach him – he is going into Winter hibernation.)...
...The stars were coming out behind him in a pale sky ...
...(The Hobbit crept through) ... the enchanted door and stole into the Mountain ...
...This was no goblin entrance or rough wood-elves cave. It was a passage made by Dwarves at the height of their wealth and skill.
.. straight as a ruler, smooth-floored, and smooth sided, ...
... going with a gentle varying slope direct – to some distant end in the blackness below ...
... soon he (Bilbo) thought it was beginning to feel warm ...
...“Is that some kind of glow I seem to see coming right ahead down there?” he thought ...
...It was. As he (Bilbo) went forward it grew and grew, till there was no doubt about it. It was a red light steadily getting redder and redder.
... It was undoubtedly hot in the tunnel ...
... Wisps of vapour floated up and past him ...
... coming to the end of the tunnel, an opening of much the same size and shape as the door above ..
....(Through it peeps the Hobbit’s little head) ... Before him lies the bottommost cellar or the dungeon-hall of the ancient dwarves right at the mountains root.
....It is almost dark so that its vastness can only be dimly guessed, but rising from the nearside of the rocky floor, there is a great glow.
...Behind him (Smaug) were the walls were nearest could dimly be seen coats of mail, helms and axes, swords and spears hanging; ...
... the splendour, the lust, the glory of such treasure...
....his stole from the shadow of doorway, across the floor to the nearest edge of the mound of treasure...
...And there in rows stood great jars and vessels filled with wealth that could not be guessed.
...And about him (Smaug) on all sides stretching away across the unseen floors, lay countless piles of precious things,...
... gold wrought and unwrought, gems and jewels, and silver red-stained in the ruddy light.
... There was a breath of strange air in his cave...
... Could there be a draft from that little hole?
... and now he(Smaug) glared at it in suspicion and wondered why he had never blocked it up...
...but up the long tunnel came the dreadful echoes, from far down in the depths, of a bellowing and a trampling that made the ground beneath them tremble.
... (His fire belched forth) ... , the hall smoked and he shook the mountain roots.
.. he (Smaug) sped from his deep lair... ... through its great door ...
... out into the huge passages of the mountain-palace ...
...and up towards the front gate.
... he issued from the front gate ...
... the waters rose in fierce whistling steam ...
... and up he (Smaug) soared blazing into the air (it is now a dark night)...
... and settled on the mountaintop in a spout of green and scarlet flame.
...A red light touched the points of standing rocks ...
...( when Smaug came) hurtling from the North, licking the mountain side with flame,...
(Beating his great wings)... with a noise like roaring wind...
... (his hot breath) .... shrivelled the grass before the door, and drove through the crack they had left (and scorched them where they hid) ...
... Flickering fires leaped up and black rock shadows danced ...
... Then darkness fell and passed again...
... (Every now and again through the night, they could hear the roar of the flying dragon) ... grow and then pass and fade as he hunted round and round the mountain side...
... Long had he hunted in vain until the dawn chilled his wraith ...
... and he went back to his golden couch to sleep –


THE SOUND OF THE LONELY MOUNTAIN
Descriptions of sounds from The Hobbit book.
....A sound, too, began to throb in his ears, a sort of bubbling like the noise of a pot galloping on the fire, mixed with a rumble as of a gigantic cat purring.
....This grew to the unmistakable gurgling noise of some vast animal snoring in its sleep ...
... when suddenly a vast rumbling woke in the mountain underneath as if it was an old volcano that had made up its mind to start eruptions once again.
...His fire belched forth...
... the waters rose in fierce whistling steam ...
... a whirring noise was heard.
... with a noise like roaring wind...
... could hear the roar of the flying dragon...


SMAUG
Visual descriptions and charteristics of Smaug from the Hobbit Book –

... The glow of Smaug.
....There he lay, a vast red-golden dragon, fast asleep;
... a thrumming came from his jaws and nostrils, ...
... and wisps of smoke, but his fires were low in slumber.
.... Beneath him, under all his limbs and his huge coiled tail....
... Smaug lay, with his wings folded like an immeasurable bat ...
... turned partly on one side, so that the Hobbit could see his underparts ...
... And his long pale belly ...
... crusted with gems and fragments of gold from his long lying on his costly bed.
... above him (Bilbo) the sleeping Dragon lay, ... a dire menace even in his sleep.
..... Smaug stirred a wing, opened a claw, the rumble of his snoring changed a note ...
..... But the dragon did not wake – not yet – but shifted into other dreams of greed and violence, lying there in his stolen hall ...
.... Smaug was still to be reckoned with. It does not do to leave a live dragon out of your calculations, if you live near him. Dragons may not have much real use for all their wealth, but they know it to an ounce as a rule, especially after long possession; and Smaug was no exception.
......He had passed from an uneasy dream (in which a warrior, altogether insignificant in size but provided with a bitter sword and great courage, figured most unpleasantly) to a doze, and from a doze to a wide waking.
..There was a breath of strange air in his cave. ...
.... and now he(Smaug) glared at it in suspicion and wondered why he had never blocked it up.
....He stirred and stretched forth his neck to sniff.
... then he missed the cup!
...Thieves! Fire! Murder!...
....His rage passes description ...
.....His fire belched forth, the hall smoked and he shook the mountain roots. (this passage I saw had a little bit of everything in it – Smaug the environment and sound)
....He thrust his head in vain at the little hole, and then coiling his length together, roaring like thunder underground, he sped from his deep lair ...
... To hunt the whole Mountain till he had caught the thief and had trampled him was one thought.
...The horrible sound of Smaugs anger were echoing in the stoney hollows far above.
... a whirring noise was heard ...The Dragon came.
....Licking the mountainside in flame , beating his great wings with a noise like a roaring wind ...
....His hot breath shrivelled the grass ...
...(Of ponies)... the Dragon swooped and turned to persue them, and was gone ...
... the door withstood his searching eye ...
... long had he hunted in vain till the dawn chilled his wrath...
... he went back to his golden couch to sleep – and to gather new strength ...
....He would not forget or forgive the thief...but he could afford to wait
... slow and silent he crept back to his lair and closed his eyes.


THE SOUND OF SMAUG –
....A sound, too, began to throb in his ears, a sort of bubbling like the noise of a pot galloping on the fire, mixed with a rumble as of a gigantic cat purring ...
....This grew to the unmistakable gurgling noise of some vast animal snoring in its sleep ...
... a thrumming came from his jaws and nostrils, ...
... the rumble of his snoring changed a note ...
...Thieves! Fire! Murder!...
....His rage passes description ...
....His fire belched forth, the hall smoked and he shook the mountain roots. (this passage I saw had a little bit of everything in it – Smaug the environment and sound)
....roaring like thunder underground,....
...The horrible sound of Smaugs anger were echoing in the stoney hollows far above.
... a whirring noise was heard ...The Dragon came.
... beating his great wings with a noise like a roaring wind ...
... slow and silent he crept back to his lair and closed his eyes.


BILBO
Visuals from The Hobbit book on Bilbo.
... The Hobbit slipped on his ring ...
... he crept noiselessly down, down, down, into the dark ...
... he was trembling with fear and his little face was set and grim ....
... he loosened his dagger in his sheath, tightened his belt, and went on ...
.....To say that Bilbo’s breath was taken away was no description at all. There are no words left to express his staggerment, since Men changed the language that they learned of elves in the days when all the world was wonderful ...
........Bilbo had heard tell and sing of dragon hoards before, but the splendour, the lust, the glory of such treasure had never yet come home to him.
......His heart was filled and pierced with enchantment and with the desire of dwarves; and he gazed motionless, almost forgetting the frightful guardian, at the gold beyond price and count.
......He gazed for what seemed an age, before drawn almost against his will, his stole from the shadow of doorway, across the floor to the nearest edge of the mound of treasure...
.......He grasped a great two handled cup, as heavy as he could carry, and cast one fearful eye up ...
... his heart was beating and a more fevered shaking was in his legs than when he was going down, but still he clutched the cup...
...and his chief thought was “I’ve done it, this will show them. More like a grocer than a burglar’ indeed! Well, we’ll hear no more of that.”
... Then Bilbo fled.

THE SOUND OF BILBO ... (Bilbo’s thoughts )
”Now you are in for it at last”
“You went and put your foot right in it at the party, and now you have got to pull it out and pay for it”
“What a fool I am and was and am”
“I have no use for Dragon guarded treasures , and the whole lot could stay here forever, if only I could wake up and find this beastly tunnel was my own front-hall at home”
“Is that a sort of glow I seem to see coming right ahead down there?”


And between Smaug and Bilbo not a word was said! I has to be vision and sound to a bigger degree maybe? I know this is only one part of a chapter - but it seems to fit for me.
All those golds and reds and darkness and opal light - and sounds unmentionable. WOOT!! Laugh
So I can see the environment playing a substantial part of this ... I hope Im sort of close here.

Cheers Elven x



Were off to Hobbiton finally!

Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!



MrCere
Sr. Staff


May 5 2008, 3:11am

Post #110 of 158 (2925 views)
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And by "TORn" you mean . . . [In reply to] Can't Post

Xoanon, Calisuri, Meag, Altaira . . .

I will be working on it tonight.

I have no choice but to believe in free will.

The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie




diedye
Grey Havens


May 5 2008, 3:15am

Post #111 of 158 (2950 views)
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I'm not sure what you're implying... [In reply to] Can't Post

I meant ANYONE at TORn that's in charge of the posting news on the front page... I wasn't really thinking of anyone in particular.

Miss ? Then Join Us.



MrCere
Sr. Staff


May 5 2008, 3:20am

Post #112 of 158 (2924 views)
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Thumbs up for your effort [In reply to] Can't Post

I happen to think GDT is talking about his own particular feelings and idea on the book, not referencing the book line-by-line.

But I do love the work you put in, it is really valuable and should also be pinned.

MY thoughts about the Smaug scene were always that it would be very dark inside the mountain and Smaug's internal fire would illuminate the cavern, glitter all over the gold and the dragon's mouth would show some fire light when his mouth is open. Perhaps his eyes share some quality of embers. So GDT's comments kinda jive with that, although I don't pretend to have any idea what he was talking about.

I just see, for myself, a very scary cavern with light provided by a gigantic, cunning, intelligent, evil serpentine killer of cities and civilization. A creature capable of vacating hardy dwarves out of their own home.

Lucky for all involved, GDT and WETA will tackle the challenge and not me.

I have no choice but to believe in free will.

The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie




Elven
Valinor


May 5 2008, 5:13am

Post #113 of 158 (2910 views)
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I think so too .. [In reply to] Can't Post

MrCere ...

Quote

I happen to think GDT is talking about his own particular feelings and idea on the book, not referencing the book line-by-line.



and I also hope its not a line by liner either Wink... but it did give me that out look - and best to go from the source material to get a glimpse of it without too much creative filtering. I didnt include the dwarves here, so after Bilbo returns and Smaug has been out scouting the Mountain there's been alot of shouting by Dwarves, and a rescue, some hiding in the tunnel, and some pony crunching Crazy.

But that very build up to this scene of it being sooo dark - and the light at the end of the tunnel being so red - Bilbo's invisability - and this awesome and massive internal palace opening before us, with our beautiful Smaug centre of attention, and asleep as a kitten - (that would make Smaug a 'Smitten' right? Laugh *thwack* Crazy) ... until he finds he cup missing then all hell breaks loose.

While I wrote another thing I thought about this was Bilbos reaction - going from "I dont care for dragon gold they can keep it" to being suddenly hit by 'Gold Fever' ... and gold fever is a real thing ... Have you ever had it? OMG - it is all consuming - says she who once found some in a stream ... it takes you like a storm, and it can be very hard to shake.
Thats what Bilbo is described as having - gold fever symptoms - in its sense - he may have thought he would show them about being a burglar - but what he did was out of character, and could easily be classified as a response to it.

The Dwarves have it - Smaug has it - and now Bilbo ... and behind them come all the rest of the cast - after the gold! Heart

Thanks for the nice response MrCere.

Cheers
Elven



Were off to Hobbiton finally!

Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!



grammaboodawg
Immortal


May 5 2008, 9:09am

Post #114 of 158 (2915 views)
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I'm going to be sitting in the dark theatre [In reply to] Can't Post

gripping the arms of my seat and holding my breath anticipating that very first sound. A perfect moment! *twitch* A FREAKIN THRILL RIDE!!!



sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


grammaboodawg
Immortal


May 5 2008, 9:11am

Post #115 of 158 (2917 views)
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*snigger* Maybe the prisms [In reply to] Can't Post

of the gems as they reflect whatever light seeps in would make purdy little rainbows all over the walls!! :D My little pony, er, dragon.



sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


TORn's Observations Lists


sherlock
Gondor


May 5 2008, 1:48pm

Post #116 of 158 (2888 views)
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I'm pretty sure I would have [In reply to] Can't Post

recognized JRD's voice for Treebeard if I hadn't known. I'm really good with voices. It bothers me every time I watch TTT.


BuckyUnderbelly
Lorien


May 5 2008, 5:10pm

Post #117 of 158 (2905 views)
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Wow. That's thorough, Elven! [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice work! (How long did that take? And is your copy of The Hobbit now all covered in every different color highlighter they make? Smile )

Seeing it all laid out like that is very evocative. I wonder if GDT and the writing team will take this sort of approach with this and other chapters during the adaptation and design process. I could see it being very useful.

I especially love the detail that Smaug is encrusted with the Dwarven treasure (though, I think it would say a lot about the character if he'd adorned himself deliberately).

I'm sure GDT has something far more clever in mind, but I had a top-of-my-head thought for a surprise Smaug reveal. Do you remember that moment in Rambo 2 when Stallone has hidden himself in the mud wall?

Yes, yes, yes ... I know it sounds insane, but bear with me a moment! Tongue

Anyhow, Rambo is caked with mud and invisible to the bad guy (and the audience) ... until he opens his eyes. Now just substitute Bilbo for the Russian guy, Smaug for Stallone and treasure for mud ... and you have the shot that just popped into my head! A giant eye slowly opening in a glittering wall of treasure ... RIGHT BEHIND Bilbo.

Perhaps this kind of shot has been done lots of other times (in movies that don't necessarily star Sylvester Stallone), but that's the image that popped into my head while reading your break-down!


"In Hollywood the screenplay is a fire hydrant. And there's a line of dogs around the block." -- Frank Miller


Tolkien Forever
Gondor

May 5 2008, 6:21pm

Post #118 of 158 (2862 views)
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Turning Point? [In reply to] Can't Post

I could argue that the climax of the book is Bilbo's finding of the Arkenstone, and Tolkien even alluded to it in the book when he said that it was a turning point in Bilbo's life

Does Tolkien say that?
I know he says that finding the Ring was the turning point of his career as a burgalar.

I think as far as 'climax of the story', some of you are confusing 'the most important part' with the 'big build-up', i.e., 'climax', where the action comes to a head.

Are you going to tell me that Bilbo bending down to find a jewel is the culminating point that the whole story has been building up to when the whole story from beginning has been to go get rid a dragon (the death of Smaug) & recover the hoarde (the Battle of Five Armies)?

You may believe the finding of the Arkenstone or Bilbo trying to make peace is the most important cog in the entire book, & that's fine, but can you honestly say that the author has written & planned this tiny part of the story as the climax of the entire literary work?

It just doesn't make any sense from a literary working of a book.

The Hoobit is the story of a quest of killing a dragon who stole the Dwarve's gold & jewels & how a mild mannered Hobbit gets caught up in it, not about how a Hobbit finds a diamond.



Elven
Valinor


May 5 2008, 8:16pm

Post #119 of 158 (2891 views)
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The Hobbit book ... [In reply to] Can't Post

I used was given to me as a gift, and I couldnt bear to touch it with a pen - its sacred Wink
But I have another research book - and that is/has fallen to pieces - which is quite useful as I can actually remove the sections chapter by chapter - in some cases pages, but yesterday I used my good book to go through. Its times like this when I wish I could type faster - it took about 3 hours and 3 cups of tea Smile and it was totally worth it. I learned alot about how I see these books and how Tolkien plotted the course of the actions.

The dwarves (regardless of what danger they are in) seem to be this comical team who need endless supervision. I left their roles out of the post (though I have done them too) as the thread was related to Smaug and Bilbo, but Tolkien firstly puts a sense of urgency to them (they must find shelter from the Smaug flying around the mountain at night) - yet he also out in a complication which causes much tension - 2 Dwarves are not with them - they are below with the ponies) .. there is this build-up of 'will they make it to safety' and some fast thinking to be done ... I imagine it does not take long for a dragon to do one lap of a Mountain - so they are stretched for time ... but ultimately make it to safety in the tunnel - and Smaug is diverted hunting for ponies .... it is very well crafted, yet not overly pushed onto the reader.

I wonder about Smaug when he awoke ... he is going into hibernation (from what I can deduct), and I wonder how this makes him look and act. If Bilbo didnt know he was a 'live' Dragon, Smaug would hardly have been breathing - his fires were described as being low. Emotions must fuel a Dragons colour - like a mood ring - but once spent, his colour fades - his anger may brighten his body, from the inside out ... I also think his beautiful underbelly would have been pale (almost grey) but like white opals - these are beautiful. Once you get the light onto them their colours come through! or some of the luminescent rocks - certain light and heat bring forth their colour. I have some green micca flakes - they look like scales and shimmer like sparkling water. All these things I thought as I went through the book ... it was really wonderful ... I felt for a moment it was if I was there. Smile

Thankyou for reading the segments Bucky - much appreciated.

Cheers Elven x


I await this scene ...


Thankyou for the response too.


Were off to Hobbiton finally!

Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!



MrCere
Sr. Staff


May 5 2008, 8:58pm

Post #120 of 158 (2930 views)
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Rambo dragon is quite a good idea [In reply to] Can't Post

The unseen figure's intelligent eye opens, giving both Bilbo and the audience a start. I quite like the idea even if does evoke Stallone.

I have no choice but to believe in free will.

The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie




Elven
Valinor


May 5 2008, 9:09pm

Post #121 of 158 (2868 views)
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OOOps sorry Bucky .. [In reply to] Can't Post

I went off on my own tangent ...


Quote

Anyhow, Rambo is caked with mud and invisible to the bad guy (and the audience) ... until he opens his eyes. Now just substitute Bilbo for the Russian guy, Smaug for Stallone and treasure for mud ... and you have the shot that just popped into my head! A giant eye slowly opening in a glittering wall of treasure ... RIGHT BEHIND Bilbo.

Perhaps this kind of shot has been done lots of other times (in movies that don't necessarily star Sylvester Stallone), but that's the image that popped into my head while reading your break-down!




I recall seeing this ... and yes it was really good!
Imagine the size of Smaugs eye/s. How huge and reptilian they are! and to have them opening like that too - it would cast this amazing light on the floor, and maybe even give invisable Bilbo, a shadow ... cool!! Cool

Thanks Bucky!

Cheers
Elven x



Were off to Hobbiton finally!

Tolkien was a Capricorn!!
Russell Crowe for Beorn!!



BuckyUnderbelly
Lorien


May 5 2008, 9:22pm

Post #122 of 158 (3112 views)
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In my head ... [In reply to] Can't Post

... Smaug's eye would be bigger than the front door at Bag End ... sloooowwly opening up behind him. Just as he's about to pick up the cup. Flooding the room with a pale, sickly glow ... and casting Bilbo's shadow on the floor. The shadow he's been trying to hide through the entire film ... the one thing that gives away his invisibility.

Could be a fun "OH CRAP!" moment for Bilbo!


(And don't worry about tangents ... if it weren't for tangents, I'd have nothing to talk about!)


"In Hollywood the screenplay is a fire hydrant. And there's a line of dogs around the block." -- Frank Miller

(This post was edited by BuckyUnderbelly on May 5 2008, 9:25pm)


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


May 5 2008, 9:31pm

Post #123 of 158 (2879 views)
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I think it *has* been done [In reply to] Can't Post

...and with a dragon no less.

I haven't watched it in a while, but in the movie Dragonheart when Dennis Quaid is standing outside the dragon's lair preparing to go inside, the rocks behind him are actually the camouflaged dragon who's eyes open revealing it's him. I'm sure it could be done differently, and probably better, in a dark scary cave. But it has been done.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase



TORn Calendar


BuckyUnderbelly
Lorien


May 5 2008, 9:50pm

Post #124 of 158 (2871 views)
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Aw nutz! [In reply to] Can't Post

Crud.

Oh well. I suppose I'll learn to live with my shame and disappointment! Crazy


"In Hollywood the screenplay is a fire hydrant. And there's a line of dogs around the block." -- Frank Miller


Tolkien Forever
Gondor

May 5 2008, 11:50pm

Post #125 of 158 (2906 views)
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Intersting Point [In reply to] Can't Post

I believe the "context" maybe has to do with the fact that Smaug has been living inside the halls of the mountains for years, maybe decades, without coming out. I remember there was a line in the Hobbit that said that kids

I've always wondered about this, plus the 'Desolation of the Dragon' about Erebor in which no living thing except a few birds lived - how did Smaug survive all those years without food?

Munching on Dwarven bones?

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