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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Dragon Problem (long)
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L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens


May 1 2008, 4:08pm

Post #26 of 158 (3466 views)
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Two rocks rubbing together would be silicon. Silicone would be two... oh never mind./ [In reply to] Can't Post

 




L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens


May 1 2008, 4:10pm

Post #27 of 158 (3524 views)
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It comes in quartz? I'm getting one!/ [In reply to] Can't Post

 




Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


May 1 2008, 4:13pm

Post #28 of 158 (3585 views)
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My sediments exactly. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



My LiveJournal
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weaver
Half-elven

May 1 2008, 4:20pm

Post #29 of 158 (3553 views)
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a pun thread on Movie? Opal-eeeessse.../// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Weaver



Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


May 1 2008, 4:25pm

Post #30 of 158 (3446 views)
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I think every board needs moh puns! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



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See my Photos from Japan!!


weaver
Half-elven

May 1 2008, 4:52pm

Post #31 of 158 (3528 views)
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yep, I'll granite you that.../ [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Weaver



N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


May 1 2008, 5:35pm

Post #32 of 158 (3532 views)
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Boone was good as Smaug. [In reply to] Can't Post

Very American, but excellent nonetheless.

But he was a well-known actor, too.

<><><><><><><><><><><><><><><><>
We're discussing The Lord of the Rings in the Reading Room, Oct. 15, 2007 - Mar. 22, 2009!

Join us Apr. 28-May 4 for "Treebeard".


AinurOlorin
Half-elven

May 1 2008, 6:15pm

Post #33 of 158 (3449 views)
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Agreed, Boone was great [In reply to] Can't Post

I remember seeing The Hobbit as a child, and while I have always been closest to Gandalf, of course. . . but I rembemer not wanting Smaug to be killed. He was that fascinating. I knew he was full and wrath and ruin, but there were points where I had wished he'd just been left alone in the mountain. That is how much presence Boon'e representation of the dragon, speaking the words of Tolkien was had to me. I cannot imagine them taking his speaking out to be more "adult"

If Treebeard didn't ruin Two Towers, Smaug certainly won't ruin The Hobbit.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


grammaboodawg
Immortal


May 1 2008, 7:05pm

Post #34 of 158 (3460 views)
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We're getting boulder with these puns! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



sample sample
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!

"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


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weaver
Half-elven

May 1 2008, 7:15pm

Post #35 of 158 (3564 views)
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isn't it marbleous?// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Weaver



Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


May 1 2008, 7:24pm

Post #36 of 158 (3486 views)
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First of all, I'll have to agree with MrCere [In reply to] Can't Post

This will have to replace Draco as THE dragon, a title Sean Connery's beast still holds.

As for what you say, I agree. i believe Howe's depiction of Smaug is by far the best of any Tolkien illustrator, and I believe WETA will do a marvelous job in transalting that into the screen, whether it is by a huge animatronic for close-ups (which is highly likely) or by a detailed CGI model for his attack to Esgaroth.

Of course voice is vital, and MrCere's point is an important one. Someone mentioned her ein the forums that no one who previously voiced a lion, a dragon or a Jedi should voice Smaug. While I don't fully agree, I believe it is a good general starting point for making Smaug unique. I still believe they should go with and older British gentleman (there are many who fit that description!) Someone who can get away with Smaug's age, be elegant and menacing at the same time. A moderately modified Anthony Hopkins could do the trick.

Here's to Del Toro becoming the Irvin Kershner of Middle Earth!

Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!


MrCere
Sr. Staff


May 1 2008, 7:26pm

Post #37 of 158 (3449 views)
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Kong indeed [In reply to] Can't Post

Kong was indeed amazing, and there was a bit of a giant-ape glut as there is a Dragon glut. WETA hit a home run with Kong and I do have full confidence in them but I do think Smaug is a challenge of a different magnitude.

I have no choice but to believe in free will.

The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie




Annael
Half-elven


May 1 2008, 7:34pm

Post #38 of 158 (3451 views)
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I love gabbro-ing with you all./ [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Twenty years from now you will be more disappointed by the things that you didn't do than by the ones you did do. So throw off the bowlines. Sail away from the safe harbor. Catch the trade winds in your sails. Explore. Dream. Discover. - Mark Twain


* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


May 1 2008, 7:36pm

Post #39 of 158 (3403 views)
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What's our strata-gy here? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



My LiveJournal
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See my Photos from Japan!!


weaver
Half-elven

May 1 2008, 7:41pm

Post #40 of 158 (3452 views)
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and I love it when things get iron-ic// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Weaver



Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 1 2008, 7:45pm

Post #41 of 158 (3445 views)
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Diamond poop! [In reply to] Can't Post

Only you could think that up, Hengist! Laugh

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


May 1 2008, 7:47pm

Post #42 of 158 (3432 views)
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I'm thinking [In reply to] Can't Post

(I know - rare) about the movie Reign of Fire. They had the dragon secreting two different liquids from glands basically at the corner of the mouth which, when mixed, became liquid napalm.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauronís master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Voorhas
Lorien


May 1 2008, 8:32pm

Post #43 of 158 (3508 views)
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Concerning Dragons... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I've heard the theory (or is it a hypothesis?) that we're fascinated by dragons because they combine aspects of our primate ancestors' three main predators: snakes, winged raptors (hawks, eagles) and big cats. We're hard-wired to respond to that archetypal image, even now.

"They who dream by day are cognizant of many things which escape those who dream only by night." -- E.A. Poe

(This post was edited by Voorhas on May 1 2008, 8:33pm)


greendragon
Sr. Staff


May 1 2008, 11:13pm

Post #44 of 158 (3510 views)
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Hey, I resent that heading!! [In reply to] Can't Post

We dragons aren't a problem... Wink

'There are older and fouler things than orcs in the deep places of my fridge...'

'You never know what will happen next, when once you get mixed up with TORnsibs and their friends.'


MrCere
Sr. Staff


May 2 2008, 2:12am

Post #45 of 158 (3379 views)
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Dragon bait is so easy to use [In reply to] Can't Post

Bilbo and I both know the one subject guaranteed to draw a dragon into conversations: dragons! AngelicAngelicAngelic

I have no choice but to believe in free will.

The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie




Tampa Phil
Rivendell


May 2 2008, 2:49am

Post #46 of 158 (3396 views)
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Hey Mr C. [In reply to] Can't Post

Long time no chat.

Once you accept that The Hobbit won't be Lord Of The Rings #4 but, essentially, The Chronicles Of Narnia #3 (if you count the upcoming Prince Caspian as #2), you can relax and attune your supercharged expectations accordingly.

Don't be looking for "emotional highlights." There are no Theoden Crying Over Dead Son moments or San Heroically Carrying Frodo As Music Swells moments.

I expect it will look great and go down well with a tub of popcorn. Perhaps an Oscar or two for Special Effects and Sound Editing.

Dragons are dragons (are dragons). Smaug is going to look like Saphira and sound like Jeremy Irons.

(Your Friendly Neighborhood) TP.


Sunflower
Valinor

May 2 2008, 4:57am

Post #47 of 158 (3385 views)
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But.... [In reply to] Can't Post

we do have Bilbo Talking with Dying Thorin moment, maybe Gandalf Taking The Map From Dying Thrain Moment, and who knows, PJ was able to get a lot of mileage out of invented characters....village woman and her two lost kids. Who knows who we'll meet in Laketown?

Plus, Bilbo will not be the same Bilbo who ran out the door of Bag End.

And that's just The Hobbit....

Let's see....the White Council? And the Possible Meeting of Aragorn and Gollum?

BTW, Tampa Phil, Love your statement about GDT's calculator, and his reply to you. Gotten over that one yet? I do hope you were jesting.


MrCere
Sr. Staff


May 2 2008, 6:01am

Post #48 of 158 (3369 views)
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You injure me TP! [In reply to] Can't Post

First, we may not have chatted but I have been watching your new career here with great interest. Yours is a flavor we have been badly in need of. I am comforted to know you will not squee at me or hug me virtually.

But, if I had one wish in all the casting of "The Hobbit", and clearly I will not be granted any wishes, it would be that Jeremy Irons isn't the voice of Smaug. I would take Darth Vader or James Bond or even Aslan over him. In fact I would take GDT doing the voice work. I love Mr. Irons but his voice is HIS voice (and Scar's) and Smaug should be more than the obvious go-to villain voice. So, "and will sound like Jeremy Irons" cuts me bad. Tongue

And do you really think team WETA will settle for Saphira? I thought the T-Rex battle in King Kong had more suspense and emotion from non-speaking combatants than all of the Saphira scenes (well...okay the 30 minutes I watched and the remainder projected) in the whole of that particular dragon film.

The Hobbit may not have the emotional beats of LOTR but if it amounts to no more than what you suggest I will be disappointed and will admit it frankly. Even Mr. del Toro's comments about the loss of innocence he sees in the tale should make it more than "The Golden Compass goes to Middle-earth". No?

Kudos for one thing, "Smaug is going to look like Saphira and sound like Jeremy Irons," sums up my particular fears better than the whole essay above. I wish I had stated it so economically.


I have no choice but to believe in free will.

The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie




Timdalf
Rivendell

May 2 2008, 12:20pm

Post #49 of 158 (3387 views)
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The Dragon Problem [In reply to] Can't Post

Just to add to your anxieties... One of the most telling failures in the creation of the dragon department have been those trying to create Wagner's Ring Cycle dragon: Fafner... The Met Opera's latest attempt reduced him to some sort of huge spidery figure in a hole! The infamous Chereau Ring of 1976 reduced him to a michelin tire guy looking thing on toy wheels! Even Wagner himself failed in 1876... the neck ended up in Beyruth, Lebanon, rather than Bayreuth, Bavaria!! But there are added difficulties to putting a dragon on stage. I always thought the most effective thing would be simply to leave it at his glowing, hostile eyes and let the audience imagine the rest... But that is not an option here.

So he has to be sly and threatening, huge and vicious, malicious and slovenly... some combo! And have no resemblance to Jabba the Hut!! But I think he will have to have some resemblance to the fireworks dragon in FotR at Bilbo's bday party, no?

As to his voice, yes, Anthony Hopkins would be great buuuut..., like the Liam Neeson Aslan of the new Narnia, his voice and style would be instantly recognizable.

They found a relative unknown for Gollum/Smeagol and Serkis is a complete triumph.

I am sure they will succeed. Their Balrog was sublime, and who could recognize John Rhys Davies as Treebeard's voice? But I thought their giving Sauron a voice was a bit corny....

Timdalf


deej
Tol Eressea


May 2 2008, 1:08pm

Post #50 of 158 (3326 views)
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Very good point. [In reply to] Can't Post

The screen dragons i've seen tended to have rough, grumbly voices, and it would make sense that they'd have to have an inner lining able to withstand such high temperatures. But when I hear Smaug's voice in my head, it sounds deep but smooth, like a soul singer. More Barry White than Sean Connery. Smile

Insert signature here....

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