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TIME - August 7
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grammaboodawg
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Aug 7 2017, 11:09am

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August 7, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo and the Dwarves are on Forest Trail in Mirkwood.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."It was not long before they grew to hate the forest as heartily as they had hated the tunnels of the goblins, and it seemed to offer even less hope of any ending. But they had to go on and on, long after they were sick for a sight of the sun and of the sky, and longed for the feel of wind on their faces."


The Great Years
August 7, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo waited for Gandalf's return as he made plans to leave the Shire.
(not from the appendices—general time frame from book)
..."Gandalf had left the suddenly after hearing something that made him anxious and needed looking into. At first Frodo was a good deal disturbed, and wondered often what Gandalf could have heard; but this uneasiness wore off, and in the fine weather he forgot his troubles for a while. The Shire had seldom seen so fair a summer..."

2. All trace of Gollum is lost.
[It is thought that at about this time, being hunted both by the Elves and Sauron's servants, he took refuge in Moria; but when he had at last discovered the way to the West-gate he could not get out. There is no real account of this other than references from others. This excerpt is from the Council of Elrond as an explanation of how Gollum escaped and was thus lost]
(from the appendices--repeated from June 20th post)
..."It was that very night of summer, yet moonless and starless, that Orcs came on us [Mirkwood Elves] at unawares. We drove them off after some time; they were many and fierce... ...they came from over the mountains, and were unused to the woods. When the battle was over, we found that Gollum was gone, and his guards were slain or taken. It then seemed plain to us that the attack had been made for his rescue, and that he knew of it beforehand. How that was contrived we cannot guess; but Gollum is cunning... ...The dark things that were driven out in the year of the Dragon's fall have returned in greater numbers, and Mirkwood is again an evil place, save where our realm is maintained.
...'We have failed to recapture Gollum. We came on his trail among those of many Orcs, and it plunged deep into the Forest, going south. But... ...it escaped our skill, and we dared not continue the hunt; for we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur, and that is still a very evil place; we do not go that way.'"


August 7, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The escort comes to Edoras.
(from the appendices)..."At length after fifteen days of journey the wain of King Théoden passed through the green fields of Rohan and came to Edoras; and there they all rested. The Golden Hall was arrayed with fair hangings and it was filled with light, and there was held the highest feast that it had known since the days of its building. For after three days the Men of the Mark prepared the funeral of Théoden..."


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TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
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TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Otaku-sempai
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Aug 7 2017, 2:18pm

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August 7, 2941 (S.R. 1341): Where be Gandalf? [In reply to] Can't Post

When Gandalf left Thorin and Company at the eves of Mirkwood near the end of July, he left us with a bit of a conundrum: after making sure that the ponies were returned to Beorn, did the wizard head west back to Rivendell, or south towards southern Mirkwood?

We know from The Lord of the Rings that the White Council met in late summer to decide what to do about Sauron occupying Dol Guldur as the Necromancer. The question is, did the White Council convene in Imladris as was the usual custom? Or, while the company was in Rivendell, did Gandalf arrange to rendezvous with the Council elsewhere, possibly in Lothlórien or even Isengard?

Since Gandalf was originally just intending to see Bilbo and the Dwarves over the Mountains, he might have been planning to return immediately to Rivendell. He would not have anticipated stirring up the goblins (at least not so severely). And, although the goblins were angry and alert over the death of the Great Goblin, if anyone could have snuck past them unseen, it should have been Gandalf traveling alone. Aragorn could have probably done it, but he was still just a boy at this time.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor


grammaboodawg
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Aug 8 2017, 2:23am

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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Gandalf left to join the White Council, and I think it was held at Lothlorien 1) because it is closer 2) because IIRC Galadriel was already having suspicions about Saruman. P'raps Gandalf asked his Eagle escort to take a message to Lorien about being delayed.


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
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5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


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Otaku-sempai
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Aug 8 2017, 3:29am

Post #4 of 44 (3771 views)
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Hmmm. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I think Gandalf left to join the White Council, and I think it was held at Lothlorien 1) because it is closer 2) because IIRC Galadriel was already having suspicions about Saruman. P'raps Gandalf asked his Eagle escort to take a message to Lorien about being delayed.


Did Galadriel in Tolkien's legendarium (not the films) really have any cause to be suspicious of Saruman at that time? Saruman played his part in driving Sauron out of Dol Guldur--though the White Council was not aware that the Enemy had already anticipated and planned for their actions. But, yes, I suppose that Gandalf could have gotten the Eagles to send a message to Elrond to convene the Council at Lórien. Elrond could have seen to contacting the other members of the Council. My original thought was that Gandalf might have spoken privately with Elrond in Rivendell before Midsummer and arranged for the Council to meet elsewhere in late summer.

However, we have reason to wonder if Elrond took part in the assault on Dol Guldur. When Gandalf and Bilbo stop at Rivendell during their return to Hobbiton, Gandalf seems to be telling Elrond for the first time about driving the Necromancer out of Mirkwood. Either Elrond remained in Rivendell or the two of them were putting on an act for Bilbo's benefit.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 8 2017, 3:32am)


grammaboodawg
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Aug 8 2017, 11:04am

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TIME - August 8 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 8, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Nights without lights.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."...they tried lighting watch-fires at night, but they soon gave that up... ...it brought thousands of dark-grey and black moths, some nearly as big as your hand, flapping and whirring round their ears. They could not stand that, nor the huge bats, black as a top-hat, either; so they gave up fires and sat at night and dozed in the enormous uncanny darkness.
...All this went on for what seemed to the hobbit ages upon ages; and he was always hungry, for they were extremely careful with their provisions... ...they began to get anxious. The food would not last for ever: it was in fact already beginning to get low. They tried shooting at the squirrels, and they wasted many arrows before they managed to bring one down on the path. But when they roasted it, it proved horrible to taste, and they shot no more squirrels."


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
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Aug 8 2017, 11:27am

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Agreed again! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes... It makes perfect sense that Gandalf and Elrond had a discussion whilst the Company was in Rivendell. I wonder if Elrond... knowing how things happen with/to Gandalf... assumed at the time that there could be a delay ;)

The reason I think Galadriel had suspicions about Saruman was from her statement in "The Mirror of Galadriel"


Quote

"'I it was who first summoned the White Council. And if my designs had not gone amiss, it would have been governed by Gandalf the grey, and then mayhap things would be gone otherwise.'



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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


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Otaku-sempai
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Aug 8 2017, 1:17pm

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Galadriel and Saruman [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The reason I think Galadriel had suspicions about Saruman was from her statement in "The Mirror of Galadriel"


Quote
'I it was who first summoned the White Council. And if my designs had not gone amiss, it would have been governed by Gandalf the grey, and then mayhap things would be gone otherwise.'



True; however, Galadriel was then speaking after Gandalf fell with the Balrog in Moria, after the company had been able to update her on recent events such as Saruman's betrayal. Her preference for Gandalf to have been the head of the White Council might show a hint of foresight, but she certainly had no real cause to doubt Saruman when the Istari first came to the shores of Middle-earth. It is a bit telling, though, that it was to Gandalf also to whom Círdan entrusted Narya, the Ring of Fire. The White Wizard was to become the Council's foremost expert on Ring-making and Ring-lore, and that had to weigh heavily on his mind.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 8 2017, 1:21pm)


grammaboodawg
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Aug 9 2017, 10:18am

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TIME - August 9 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 9, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The Company's suffering grows.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."They were thirsty... ...for they had none too much water, and in all the time they had seen neither spring nor stream. [Even if they found one stream in particular, they'd be out of luck.] It was well that Beorn had warned them against it..."

[From Queer Lodgings]""...I will provide you with skins for carrying water, and I will give you some bows and arrows. But I doubt very much whether anything you find in Mirkwood will be wholesome to eat or to drink. There is one stream there... ...black and strong which crosses the path. That you should neither drink of, nor bathe in; for I have heard that it carries enchantment and a great drowsiness and forgetfulness. And in the dim shadows of that place I don't think you will shoot anything, wholesome or unwholesome, without straying from the path. That you MUST NOT do, for any reason.""

A note from Bracegirdle on 8/10/14: The Enchanted Stream is never called a “river” in the text. Only on CJRT’s map is it labeled “Enchanted R.”


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
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5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 10 2017, 10:42am

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Today in Middle-earth

August 10, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. Funeral of King Théoden [He passed on March 15].
(from the appendices)
..."...[Théoden] was laid in a house of stone with his arms and many other fair things that he had possessed, and over him was raised a great mound, covered with green turves of grass and of white evermind. And now there were eight mounds on the east-side of the Barrowfield.
...Then the Riders of the King's House upon white horses rode round... ...the barrow and sang together a song of Théoden... ...that Gléowine his minstrel made, and he made no other song after. The slow voices of the Riders stirred the hearts even of those who did not know the speech of that people; but the words of the song brought a light to the eyes of the folk of the Mark as they heard again afar the thunder of the hooves of the North and the voice of Eorl crying above the battle upon the Field of Celebrant... ...the tale of the kings rolled on, and the horn of Helm was loud in the mountains, until the Darkness came and King Théoden arose and rode through the Shadow to the fire, and died in splendour, even as the Sun, returning beyond hope, gleamed upon Mindolluin in the morning.

Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day's rising

He rode singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.

Hope he rekindled, and in hope ended;

over death, over dread, over doom lifted

out of loss, out of life, unto long glory.


...But Merry stood at the foot of the green mound, and he wept, and when the song was ended he arose and cried; 'Théoden King, Théoden King! Farewell! As a father you were to me, for a little while. Farewell!'

......At the last when the feast drew to an end Éomer arose and said: 'Now this is the funeral feast of Théoden the King; but I will speak ere we go of tidings of joy, for he would not grudge that I should do so, since he was ever a father to Éowyn my sister. Hear then all my guests... ...Faramir, Steward of Gondor, and Prince of Ithilien, asks that Éowyn Lady of Rohan should be his wife, and who grants it full willing. Therefore they shall be trothplighted before you all.'
...And Faramir and Éowyn stood forth and set hand in hand; and all there drank to them and were glad. 'Thus,' said Éomer, 'is the friendship of the Mark and of Gondor bound with a new bond, and the more do I rejoice.'
...'No niggard are you, Éomer,' said Aragorn, 'to give thus to Gondor the fairest thing in your realm!'
...Then Éowyn looked in the eyes of Aragorn, and she said: 'Wish me joy, my liege-lord and healer!'
...And he answered: 'I have wished thee joy ever since first I saw thee. It heals my heart to see thee now in bliss.'"


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TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 11 2017, 10:51am

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TIME - August 11 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 11, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo and the Dwarves are on Forest Trail in Mirkwood.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."There was no movement of air down under the forest-roof, and it was everlastingly still and dark and stuffy. Even the dwarves felt it, who were used to tunnelling, and lived at times for long whiles without the sight of the sun; but the hobbit, who liked holes to make a house in but not to spend summer days in, felt he was being slowly suffocated."

August 11, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo plans his departure
(not from the appendices-no text)
...Frodo continues with his plans to leave Hobbiton ever watchful for Gandalf's return as Sam secretly gathers clues and information for the Conspirators.

August 11, 3020 (S.R. 1420)
1. The Shire is being restored.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...The Shirelings have the restoration of their lands nearly completed. The Mallorn Party Tree thrives and grows at an accelerated speed along with the other saplings Sam had planted, each with a grain of Lórien dust from his gift of Galadriel.

August 11, 3021 (S.R. 1421)
1. The Red Book entries continue.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...Frodo works steadily on the Red Book of Westmarch as he enjoys his summer with Sam, Rosie and baby Elanor.


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
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5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Otaku-sempai
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Aug 11 2017, 1:10pm

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Don't ya just love it? [In reply to] Can't Post

We can deduce a reasonably firm Shire-date for Thorin & Co. entering Mirkwood (July 25) and the precise date of their escape from the Woodland Realm (September 21)--a period of 57 days. It's Bilbo's fuzzy recollection of how many days the company spent wandering in the Forest and just how long they were held by the Wood-elves that is harder to determine.

We know that the progress of the company was slow, even for them, and that they were nearly at the other end of Mirkwood before they encountered the spiders and were captured by the Elves. The Elf-path seems to be about 200 miles long; Bilbo and the Dwarves were probably lucky if they managed an average distance of 7 miles per day. They were probably in the Forest for nearly a month before Thorin is captured and the rest encounter the spider. That matches up pretty well with Karen Wynn Fonstad's estimate and puts them with the Wood-elves for about another 4 weeks--a little less if it took longer for them to get caught, say as much as 5 weeks of wandering and 3 weeks imprisoned.

Isn't this fun? It does give you a bit of latitude. Tongue

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 11 2017, 1:17pm)


grammaboodawg
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Aug 11 2017, 6:10pm

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It really IS fun :D [In reply to] Can't Post

I can see why they'd feel so much confusion and despair after days and weeks of moving through those hard woods... no knowing when and if you'll get to the other end!


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
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5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
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Aug 12 2017, 12:04pm

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Today in Middle-earth

August 12, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo continues secretly making plans to leave Hobbiton.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...The summer seemed to be slipping away, and Frodo was keenly aware of every moment. Most of the decisions of what would be taken to Crickhollow to keep the illusion that his move was not gossip afterall had been made. He was leaving, and he found himself mourning these last days at Bag End and his life in Hobbiton. Where was Gandalf?
...Frodo secretly began to wonder if he should wait for Gandalf's return on the chance his long absence meant a change in their plan. But things were in motion and could not be altered without raising questions, so he pressed on as he kept watch for the wizard on the road.
...Frodo also wondered what Sam was telling his gaffer, if anything, about going away. Each time Frodo asked what he was doing to prepare for the move, Sam would just tip his head to one side and shrug his shoulders. "I'm going to make sure my gaffer understands my plans, Mr. Frodo. Don't you go worriting yourself about me. You have enough to do. I'll be ready!"


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 13 2017, 12:25pm

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Today in Middle-earth

August 13, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The guests take leave of King Éomer.
(from the appendices)
..."When the feast was over, those who were to go took leave of King Éomer. Aragorn and his knights, and the people of Lórien and of Rivendell, made ready to ride; but Faramir and Imrahil remained at Edoras; and Arwen Evenstar... ...and she said farewell to her brethren. None saw her last meeting with Elrond her father, for they went up into the hills and there spoke long together, and bitter was their parting that should endure beyond the ends of the world."


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 14 2017, 10:49am

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Today in Middle-earth

August 14, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. More guests take leave of Edoras.
(not from the appendices)
..."At the last before the guests set out, Éomer and Éowyn came to Merry... '...Farewell now, Meriadoc of the Shire and Holdwine of the Mark! Ride to good fortune, and ride back soon to our welcome!'
...And Éomer said: 'Kings of old would have laden you with gifts that a wain could not bear for your deeds upon the fields of Mundburg; and yet you will take naught... ...but the arms that were given to you. This I suffer, for indeed I have no gift that is worthy; but my sister begs you to receive this small thing, as a memorial of Dernhelm and of the horns of the Mark at the coming of the morning.'
...Then Éowyn gave to Merry an ancient horn, small but cunningly wrought all of fair silver with a baldric of green; and wrights had engraven upon it swift horsemen riding in a line that wound about it from the tip to the mouth; and there were set runes of great virtue.
...'This is an heirloom of our house... ...made by the Dwarves, and came from the hoard of Scatha the Worm. Eorl the Young brought it from the North. He that blows it at need shall set fear in the hearts of his enemies and joy in the hearts of his friends, and they shall hear him and come to him.'
...Then Merry took the horn, for it could not be refused, and he kissed Éowyn's hand; and they embraced him, and so they parted for that time."


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 15 2017, 11:09am

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Today in Middle-earth

August 15, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. Treebeard releases Saruman and Gríma.
(not from the appendices)
..."'I let him go. There was little left of him when he crawled out, and as for that worm-creature of his, he was like a pale shadow. Now do not tell me… …that I promised to keep him safe; for I know it. But things have changed since then. And I kept him until he was... ...safe from doing any more harm. You should know that above all I hate the caging of live things, and I will not keep even such creatures as these caged beyond great need. A snake without fangs may crawl where he will.'
...'You may be right,' said Gandalf; 'but this snake had still one tooth left... ...the poison of his voice, and I guess that he persuaded you, even you Treebeard, knowing the soft spot in your heart. Well, he is gone, and there is no more to be said. But the Tower of Orthanc now goes back to the King… …Though maybe he will not need it.'
...'That will be seen later,' said Aragorn. 'But I will give to Ents all this valley to do with as they will, so long as they keep a watch upon Orthanc and see that none enter it without my leave.'
...'It is locked,' said Treebeard. 'I made Saruman lock it and give me the keys. Quickbeam has them.'
...Quickbeam bowed like a tree bending in the wind and handed to Aragorn two great black keys of intricate shape, joined by a ring of steel."

[from dernwyn in 2014: “Do you know, this is the only place in the book where they are actually called the “Fellowship of the Ring”?]


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dernwyn
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Aug 16 2017, 1:52am

Post #17 of 44 (3282 views)
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"Here then at last comes the ending of the Fellowship of the Ring," said Aragorn. [In reply to] Can't Post

He does mention "fellowship" earlier, in The Breaking of the Fellowship: "What shall now become of our Company that has travelled so far in fellowship? Shall we turn west with Boromir and go to the wars of Gondor; or turn east to the Fear and Shadow; or shall we break our fellowship and go this way and that as each may choose?"

And Gimli, in The Treason of Isengard: "I should like a tale in the right order, starting with that strange day when our fellowship was broken."

And even Frodo, in The Window on the West: " And the more need of haste, if we two halflings are all that remain of our fellowship."

Followed by Faramir: "Mithrandir was lost!...An evil fate seems to have pursued your fellowship."

The term is used when they are reunited in The Field of Cormallen: " There Frodo and Sam learned much of all that had happened to the Company after their fellowship was broken on the evil day at Parth Galen by Rauros Falls..."

And again in The Steward and the King: "The hobbits still remained in Minas Tirith, with Legolas and Gimli; for Aragorn was loth for the fellowship to be dissolved."

Gandalf confirms it at the Grey Havens: "Well, here at last, dear friends, on the shores of the Sea comes the end of our fellowship in Middle-earth."

But Elrond called them the Company of the Ring, and notice that the other occurrences of "fellowship" are all lower-case, an adjective for the capitalized Company, by which they are consistently called, throughout the text.

So here's the question: why did Tolkien not either title the book The Company of the Ring, or instead, why did he not refer to them as Fellowship until that one instance?
Shocked


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


grammaboodawg
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Aug 16 2017, 11:34am

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"The Company of the Ring? hmmmm.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm thinking "Fellowship" reflects the deep friendships and devotion each of these on the Quest felt. It's more intimate than the "Company"... which has a more military or assigned feel to it. But that's just me ;)


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 16 2017, 11:35am

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TIME - August 16 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 16, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The Company reaches the Enchanted River.
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."...they found their path blocked by a running water. It flowed fast and strong but not very wide right across the way, and it was black, or looked it in the gloom. It was well that Beorn had warned them against it, or they would have drunk from it... ...and filled some of their emptied skins at its bank. As it was they only thought of how to cross it without wetting themselves in its water. There had been a bridge of wood across, but it had rotted and fallen leaving only the broken posts near the bank.
...Bilbo kneeling on the brink and peering forward cried: "There is a boat against the far bank! Now why couldn't it have been this side!"

..."...Fili picked up the hook when he had drawn it back, rather doubtfully all the same. This time he threw it with greater strength.
..."Steady!" said Bilbo, "you have thrown it right into the wood on the other side now. Draw it back gently." Fili hauled the rope back slowly, and after a while Bilbo said: "Carefully! It is lying on the boat; let's hope the hook will catch."
...It did. The rope went taut, and Fili pulled in vain. Kili came to his help, and then Óin and Glóin. They tugged and tugged, and suddenly they all fell over on their backs. Bilbo was on the lookout... ...caught the rope, and with a piece of stick fended off the little black boat as it came rushing across the stream. "Help!" he shouted, and Balin was just in time to seize the boat before it floated off down the current.
..."It was tied after all," said he… …"That was a good pull, my lads; and a good job that our rope was the stronger..."
......they were all soon on the far bank safe across the enchanted stream. Dwalin had just scrambled out with the coiled rope on his arm, and Bombur (still grumbling) was getting ready to follow, when something bad did happen. There was a flying sound of hooves on the path ahead. Out of the gloom came suddenly the shape of a flying deer. It charged into the dwarves and bowled them over… …High it sprang and cleared the water with a mighty jump. But it did not reach the other side in safety. Thorin was the only one who had kept his feet and his wits. As soon as they had landed he had bent his bow and fitted an arrow in case any hidden guardian of the boat appeared. Now he sent a swift and sure shot into the leaping beast. As it reached the further bank it stumbled. The shadows swallowed it up, but they heard the sound of hooves quickly falter and then go still.
...Before they could shout in praise of the shot... ...a dreadful wail from Bilbo put all thoughts of venison out of their minds. "Bombur has fallen in! Bombur is drowning!" he cried. It was only too true. Bombur had only one foot on the land when the hart bore down on him, and sprang over him. He had stumbled, thrusting the boat away from the bank, and then toppled back into the dark water….
......They could still see his hood above the water when they ran to the bank. Quickly they flung a rope with a hook towards him. His hand caught it, and they pulled him to the shore. He was drenched from hair to boots... ...When they laid him on the bank he was already fast asleep, with one hand clutching the rope so tight that they could not get it from his grasp; and fast asleep he remained in spite of all they could do."

the Enchanted Stream is never called a “river” in the text. Only on CJRT’s map is it labeled “Enchanted R.”.
from Bracegirdle 8/10/14


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We have been there and back again.


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 17 2017, 11:12am

Post #20 of 44 (3178 views)
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TIME - August 17 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 17, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. But what of Gandalf?
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."After Gandalf had departed from Bilbo and the Dwarves, he "had been to a great council of the white wizards, masters of lore and good magic; and that they had at last driven the Necromancer from his dark hold in the south of Mirkwood."
...[Gandalf] "'When did I first begin to guess?' he mused, searching back in memory... '...it was in the year that the White Council drove the dark power from Mirkwood, just before the Battle of Five Armies, that Bilbo found his ring. A shadow fell on my heart then,…'"
...[Galadriel] "'I it was who first summoned the White Council. And if my designs had not gone amiss, it would have been governed by Gandalf the grey, and then mayhap things would be gone otherwise.'"
...[Treebeard] '"He was very quiet to begin with, but his fame began to grow. He was chosen to be the head of the White Council, they say; but that did not turn out too well. I wonder now if even then Saruman was not turning to evil ways. But at any rate he used to give no trouble to his neighbours.'"


sample

We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Aug 17 2017, 11:34am

Post #21 of 44 (3174 views)
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No, I get that impression, also [In reply to] Can't Post

"Company" sounds like a military group, everyone in it has their job to do, but "Fellowship" implies friendship and watching out for one another.

I can't recall offhand if it's in HoME, why Tolkien did not use "Fellowship" throughout the story. I think I would have preferred it, if he had!


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 17 2017, 12:43pm

Post #22 of 44 (3172 views)
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What Treebeard says... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...[Treebeard] '"He was very quiet to begin with, but his fame began to grow. He was chosen to be the head of the White Council, they say; but that did not turn out too well. I wonder now if even then Saruman was not turning to evil ways. But at any rate he used to give no trouble to his neighbours.'"


Treebeard here is speaking of Saruman, not Gandalf, and the head of the White Council actually saw it in his best interests to approve of Gandalf's plan in TA 2941 to drive Sauron out of Dol Guldur, although Saruman had vetoed Gandalf's proposal ninety years earlier.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 17 2017, 12:59pm

Post #23 of 44 (3169 views)
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Yes... t'is Saruman [In reply to] Can't Post

It's interesting how Saruman shifted gears on dealing with Sauron when he was dealing with the Council.


pssst... I edited that part of the post to emphasize it's Saruman Treebeard is speaking about :) THANKS!


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We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit

(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Aug 17 2017, 1:01pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 17 2017, 1:22pm

Post #24 of 44 (3167 views)
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The Debate of the White Council of 2941 [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, Gandalf could have reached Rivendell (or wherever the White Council of 2941 convened) around the middle of August, though with the goblins aroused he might have had a tricky time getting back through the Misty Mountains. If the Council did meet in Rivendell, I wonder if they took a different route to reach Dol Guldur: either the Gap of Rohan or one of the more southerly passes. Not that the Wise gathered in strength had much to fear from some angry Orcs.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 17 2017, 1:23pm)


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 18 2017, 12:20pm

Post #25 of 44 (3123 views)
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TIME - August 18 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 18, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. On the Mirkwood Forest Trail (day 23).
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)

..."...they were burdened with the heavy body of Bombur, which they had to carry along with them as best they could, taking the wearisome task in turns of four each while the others shared their packs. If these had not become all too light in the last few days, they would never have managed it; but a slumbering and smiling Bombur was a poor exchange for packs filled with food however heavy… …time came when there was practically nothing left to eat or to drink. Nothing wholesome could they see growing in the woods, only funguses and herbs with pale leaves and unpleasant smell."

August 18, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. They come to Helms Deep.
(from the appendices)

..."Now the guests were ready, and they drank the stirrup-cup, and with great praise and friendship they departed (from Edoras), and came at length to Helm's Deep… …Then Legolas repaid his promise to Gimli and went with him to the Glittering Caves; and when they returned he was silent, and would say only that Gimli alone could find fit words to speak of them. 'And never before has a Dwarf claimed a victory over an Elf in a contest of words,' said he. 'Now therefore, let us to go Fangorn and set the score right!'"


sample

We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit

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