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TIME - August 7

grammaboodawg
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Aug 7 2017, 11:09am

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August 7, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo and the Dwarves are on Forest Trail in Mirkwood.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."It was not long before they grew to hate the forest as heartily as they had hated the tunnels of the goblins, and it seemed to offer even less hope of any ending. But they had to go on and on, long after they were sick for a sight of the sun and of the sky, and longed for the feel of wind on their faces."


The Great Years
August 7, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo waited for Gandalf's return as he made plans to leave the Shire.
(not from the appendices—general time frame from book)
..."Gandalf had left the suddenly after hearing something that made him anxious and needed looking into. At first Frodo was a good deal disturbed, and wondered often what Gandalf could have heard; but this uneasiness wore off, and in the fine weather he forgot his troubles for a while. The Shire had seldom seen so fair a summer..."

2. All trace of Gollum is lost.
[It is thought that at about this time, being hunted both by the Elves and Sauron's servants, he took refuge in Moria; but when he had at last discovered the way to the West-gate he could not get out. There is no real account of this other than references from others. This excerpt is from the Council of Elrond as an explanation of how Gollum escaped and was thus lost]
(from the appendices--repeated from June 20th post)
..."It was that very night of summer, yet moonless and starless, that Orcs came on us [Mirkwood Elves] at unawares. We drove them off after some time; they were many and fierce... ...they came from over the mountains, and were unused to the woods. When the battle was over, we found that Gollum was gone, and his guards were slain or taken. It then seemed plain to us that the attack had been made for his rescue, and that he knew of it beforehand. How that was contrived we cannot guess; but Gollum is cunning... ...The dark things that were driven out in the year of the Dragon's fall have returned in greater numbers, and Mirkwood is again an evil place, save where our realm is maintained.
...'We have failed to recapture Gollum. We came on his trail among those of many Orcs, and it plunged deep into the Forest, going south. But... ...it escaped our skill, and we dared not continue the hunt; for we were drawing nigh to Dol Guldur, and that is still a very evil place; we do not go that way.'"


August 7, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The escort comes to Edoras.
(from the appendices)..."At length after fifteen days of journey the wain of King Théoden passed through the green fields of Rohan and came to Edoras; and there they all rested. The Golden Hall was arrayed with fair hangings and it was filled with light, and there was held the highest feast that it had known since the days of its building. For after three days the Men of the Mark prepared the funeral of Théoden..."


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TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Otaku-sempai
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Aug 7 2017, 2:18pm

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August 7, 2941 (S.R. 1341): Where be Gandalf? [In reply to] Can't Post

When Gandalf left Thorin and Company at the eves of Mirkwood near the end of July, he left us with a bit of a conundrum: after making sure that the ponies were returned to Beorn, did the wizard head west back to Rivendell, or south towards southern Mirkwood?

We know from The Lord of the Rings that the White Council met in late summer to decide what to do about Sauron occupying Dol Guldur as the Necromancer. The question is, did the White Council convene in Imladris as was the usual custom? Or, while the company was in Rivendell, did Gandalf arrange to rendezvous with the Council elsewhere, possibly in Lothlórien or even Isengard?

Since Gandalf was originally just intending to see Bilbo and the Dwarves over the Mountains, he might have been planning to return immediately to Rivendell. He would not have anticipated stirring up the goblins (at least not so severely). And, although the goblins were angry and alert over the death of the Great Goblin, if anyone could have snuck past them unseen, it should have been Gandalf traveling alone. Aragorn could have probably done it, but he was still just a boy at this time.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor


grammaboodawg
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Aug 8 2017, 2:23am

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I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Gandalf left to join the White Council, and I think it was held at Lothlorien 1) because it is closer 2) because IIRC Galadriel was already having suspicions about Saruman. P'raps Gandalf asked his Eagle escort to take a message to Lorien about being delayed.


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Otaku-sempai
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Aug 8 2017, 3:29am

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Hmmm. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I think Gandalf left to join the White Council, and I think it was held at Lothlorien 1) because it is closer 2) because IIRC Galadriel was already having suspicions about Saruman. P'raps Gandalf asked his Eagle escort to take a message to Lorien about being delayed.


Did Galadriel in Tolkien's legendarium (not the films) really have any cause to be suspicious of Saruman at that time? Saruman played his part in driving Sauron out of Dol Guldur--though the White Council was not aware that the Enemy had already anticipated and planned for their actions. But, yes, I suppose that Gandalf could have gotten the Eagles to send a message to Elrond to convene the Council at Lórien. Elrond could have seen to contacting the other members of the Council. My original thought was that Gandalf might have spoken privately with Elrond in Rivendell before Midsummer and arranged for the Council to meet elsewhere in late summer.

However, we have reason to wonder if Elrond took part in the assault on Dol Guldur. When Gandalf and Bilbo stop at Rivendell during their return to Hobbiton, Gandalf seems to be telling Elrond for the first time about driving the Necromancer out of Mirkwood. Either Elrond remained in Rivendell or the two of them were putting on an act for Bilbo's benefit.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 8 2017, 3:32am)


grammaboodawg
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Aug 8 2017, 11:04am

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TIME - August 8 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 8, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Nights without lights.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."...they tried lighting watch-fires at night, but they soon gave that up... ...it brought thousands of dark-grey and black moths, some nearly as big as your hand, flapping and whirring round their ears. They could not stand that, nor the huge bats, black as a top-hat, either; so they gave up fires and sat at night and dozed in the enormous uncanny darkness.
...All this went on for what seemed to the hobbit ages upon ages; and he was always hungry, for they were extremely careful with their provisions... ...they began to get anxious. The food would not last for ever: it was in fact already beginning to get low. They tried shooting at the squirrels, and they wasted many arrows before they managed to bring one down on the path. But when they roasted it, it proved horrible to taste, and they shot no more squirrels."


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
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Aug 8 2017, 11:27am

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Agreed again! [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes... It makes perfect sense that Gandalf and Elrond had a discussion whilst the Company was in Rivendell. I wonder if Elrond... knowing how things happen with/to Gandalf... assumed at the time that there could be a delay ;)

The reason I think Galadriel had suspicions about Saruman was from her statement in "The Mirror of Galadriel"


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"'I it was who first summoned the White Council. And if my designs had not gone amiss, it would have been governed by Gandalf the grey, and then mayhap things would be gone otherwise.'



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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Otaku-sempai
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Aug 8 2017, 1:17pm

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Galadriel and Saruman [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The reason I think Galadriel had suspicions about Saruman was from her statement in "The Mirror of Galadriel"


Quote
'I it was who first summoned the White Council. And if my designs had not gone amiss, it would have been governed by Gandalf the grey, and then mayhap things would be gone otherwise.'



True; however, Galadriel was then speaking after Gandalf fell with the Balrog in Moria, after the company had been able to update her on recent events such as Saruman's betrayal. Her preference for Gandalf to have been the head of the White Council might show a hint of foresight, but she certainly had no real cause to doubt Saruman when the Istari first came to the shores of Middle-earth. It is a bit telling, though, that it was to Gandalf also to whom Círdan entrusted Narya, the Ring of Fire. The White Wizard was to become the Council's foremost expert on Ring-making and Ring-lore, and that had to weigh heavily on his mind.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 8 2017, 1:21pm)


grammaboodawg
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Aug 9 2017, 10:18am

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TIME - August 9 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 9, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The Company's suffering grows.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."They were thirsty... ...for they had none too much water, and in all the time they had seen neither spring nor stream. [Even if they found one stream in particular, they'd be out of luck.] It was well that Beorn had warned them against it..."

[From Queer Lodgings]""...I will provide you with skins for carrying water, and I will give you some bows and arrows. But I doubt very much whether anything you find in Mirkwood will be wholesome to eat or to drink. There is one stream there... ...black and strong which crosses the path. That you should neither drink of, nor bathe in; for I have heard that it carries enchantment and a great drowsiness and forgetfulness. And in the dim shadows of that place I don't think you will shoot anything, wholesome or unwholesome, without straying from the path. That you MUST NOT do, for any reason.""

A note from Bracegirdle on 8/10/14: The Enchanted Stream is never called a “river” in the text. Only on CJRT’s map is it labeled “Enchanted R.”


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 10 2017, 10:42am

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Today in Middle-earth

August 10, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. Funeral of King Théoden [He passed on March 15].
(from the appendices)
..."...[Théoden] was laid in a house of stone with his arms and many other fair things that he had possessed, and over him was raised a great mound, covered with green turves of grass and of white evermind. And now there were eight mounds on the east-side of the Barrowfield.
...Then the Riders of the King's House upon white horses rode round... ...the barrow and sang together a song of Théoden... ...that Gléowine his minstrel made, and he made no other song after. The slow voices of the Riders stirred the hearts even of those who did not know the speech of that people; but the words of the song brought a light to the eyes of the folk of the Mark as they heard again afar the thunder of the hooves of the North and the voice of Eorl crying above the battle upon the Field of Celebrant... ...the tale of the kings rolled on, and the horn of Helm was loud in the mountains, until the Darkness came and King Théoden arose and rode through the Shadow to the fire, and died in splendour, even as the Sun, returning beyond hope, gleamed upon Mindolluin in the morning.

Out of doubt, out of dark, to the day's rising

He rode singing in the sun, sword unsheathing.

Hope he rekindled, and in hope ended;

over death, over dread, over doom lifted

out of loss, out of life, unto long glory.


...But Merry stood at the foot of the green mound, and he wept, and when the song was ended he arose and cried; 'Théoden King, Théoden King! Farewell! As a father you were to me, for a little while. Farewell!'

......At the last when the feast drew to an end Éomer arose and said: 'Now this is the funeral feast of Théoden the King; but I will speak ere we go of tidings of joy, for he would not grudge that I should do so, since he was ever a father to Éowyn my sister. Hear then all my guests... ...Faramir, Steward of Gondor, and Prince of Ithilien, asks that Éowyn Lady of Rohan should be his wife, and who grants it full willing. Therefore they shall be trothplighted before you all.'
...And Faramir and Éowyn stood forth and set hand in hand; and all there drank to them and were glad. 'Thus,' said Éomer, 'is the friendship of the Mark and of Gondor bound with a new bond, and the more do I rejoice.'
...'No niggard are you, Éomer,' said Aragorn, 'to give thus to Gondor the fairest thing in your realm!'
...Then Éowyn looked in the eyes of Aragorn, and she said: 'Wish me joy, my liege-lord and healer!'
...And he answered: 'I have wished thee joy ever since first I saw thee. It heals my heart to see thee now in bliss.'"


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TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
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Aug 11 2017, 10:51am

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TIME - August 11 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 11, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo and the Dwarves are on Forest Trail in Mirkwood.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."There was no movement of air down under the forest-roof, and it was everlastingly still and dark and stuffy. Even the dwarves felt it, who were used to tunnelling, and lived at times for long whiles without the sight of the sun; but the hobbit, who liked holes to make a house in but not to spend summer days in, felt he was being slowly suffocated."

August 11, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo plans his departure
(not from the appendices-no text)
...Frodo continues with his plans to leave Hobbiton ever watchful for Gandalf's return as Sam secretly gathers clues and information for the Conspirators.

August 11, 3020 (S.R. 1420)
1. The Shire is being restored.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...The Shirelings have the restoration of their lands nearly completed. The Mallorn Party Tree thrives and grows at an accelerated speed along with the other saplings Sam had planted, each with a grain of Lórien dust from his gift of Galadriel.

August 11, 3021 (S.R. 1421)
1. The Red Book entries continue.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...Frodo works steadily on the Red Book of Westmarch as he enjoys his summer with Sam, Rosie and baby Elanor.


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
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5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Otaku-sempai
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Aug 11 2017, 1:10pm

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Don't ya just love it? [In reply to] Can't Post

We can deduce a reasonably firm Shire-date for Thorin & Co. entering Mirkwood (July 25) and the precise date of their escape from the Woodland Realm (September 21)--a period of 57 days. It's Bilbo's fuzzy recollection of how many days the company spent wandering in the Forest and just how long they were held by the Wood-elves that is harder to determine.

We know that the progress of the company was slow, even for them, and that they were nearly at the other end of Mirkwood before they encountered the spiders and were captured by the Elves. The Elf-path seems to be about 200 miles long; Bilbo and the Dwarves were probably lucky if they managed an average distance of 7 miles per day. They were probably in the Forest for nearly a month before Thorin is captured and the rest encounter the spider. That matches up pretty well with Karen Wynn Fonstad's estimate and puts them with the Wood-elves for about another 4 weeks--a little less if it took longer for them to get caught, say as much as 5 weeks of wandering and 3 weeks imprisoned.

Isn't this fun? It does give you a bit of latitude. Tongue

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 11 2017, 1:17pm)


grammaboodawg
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Aug 11 2017, 6:10pm

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It really IS fun :D [In reply to] Can't Post

I can see why they'd feel so much confusion and despair after days and weeks of moving through those hard woods... no knowing when and if you'll get to the other end!


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
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Aug 12 2017, 12:04pm

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Today in Middle-earth

August 12, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo continues secretly making plans to leave Hobbiton.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...The summer seemed to be slipping away, and Frodo was keenly aware of every moment. Most of the decisions of what would be taken to Crickhollow to keep the illusion that his move was not gossip afterall had been made. He was leaving, and he found himself mourning these last days at Bag End and his life in Hobbiton. Where was Gandalf?
...Frodo secretly began to wonder if he should wait for Gandalf's return on the chance his long absence meant a change in their plan. But things were in motion and could not be altered without raising questions, so he pressed on as he kept watch for the wizard on the road.
...Frodo also wondered what Sam was telling his gaffer, if anything, about going away. Each time Frodo asked what he was doing to prepare for the move, Sam would just tip his head to one side and shrug his shoulders. "I'm going to make sure my gaffer understands my plans, Mr. Frodo. Don't you go worriting yourself about me. You have enough to do. I'll be ready!"


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TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
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Aug 13 2017, 12:25pm

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Today in Middle-earth

August 13, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The guests take leave of King Éomer.
(from the appendices)
..."When the feast was over, those who were to go took leave of King Éomer. Aragorn and his knights, and the people of Lórien and of Rivendell, made ready to ride; but Faramir and Imrahil remained at Edoras; and Arwen Evenstar... ...and she said farewell to her brethren. None saw her last meeting with Elrond her father, for they went up into the hills and there spoke long together, and bitter was their parting that should endure beyond the ends of the world."


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5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 14 2017, 10:49am

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Today in Middle-earth

August 14, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. More guests take leave of Edoras.
(not from the appendices)
..."At the last before the guests set out, Éomer and Éowyn came to Merry... '...Farewell now, Meriadoc of the Shire and Holdwine of the Mark! Ride to good fortune, and ride back soon to our welcome!'
...And Éomer said: 'Kings of old would have laden you with gifts that a wain could not bear for your deeds upon the fields of Mundburg; and yet you will take naught... ...but the arms that were given to you. This I suffer, for indeed I have no gift that is worthy; but my sister begs you to receive this small thing, as a memorial of Dernhelm and of the horns of the Mark at the coming of the morning.'
...Then Éowyn gave to Merry an ancient horn, small but cunningly wrought all of fair silver with a baldric of green; and wrights had engraven upon it swift horsemen riding in a line that wound about it from the tip to the mouth; and there were set runes of great virtue.
...'This is an heirloom of our house... ...made by the Dwarves, and came from the hoard of Scatha the Worm. Eorl the Young brought it from the North. He that blows it at need shall set fear in the hearts of his enemies and joy in the hearts of his friends, and they shall hear him and come to him.'
...Then Merry took the horn, for it could not be refused, and he kissed Éowyn's hand; and they embraced him, and so they parted for that time."


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 15 2017, 11:09am

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Today in Middle-earth

August 15, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. Treebeard releases Saruman and Gríma.
(not from the appendices)
..."'I let him go. There was little left of him when he crawled out, and as for that worm-creature of his, he was like a pale shadow. Now do not tell me… …that I promised to keep him safe; for I know it. But things have changed since then. And I kept him until he was... ...safe from doing any more harm. You should know that above all I hate the caging of live things, and I will not keep even such creatures as these caged beyond great need. A snake without fangs may crawl where he will.'
...'You may be right,' said Gandalf; 'but this snake had still one tooth left... ...the poison of his voice, and I guess that he persuaded you, even you Treebeard, knowing the soft spot in your heart. Well, he is gone, and there is no more to be said. But the Tower of Orthanc now goes back to the King… …Though maybe he will not need it.'
...'That will be seen later,' said Aragorn. 'But I will give to Ents all this valley to do with as they will, so long as they keep a watch upon Orthanc and see that none enter it without my leave.'
...'It is locked,' said Treebeard. 'I made Saruman lock it and give me the keys. Quickbeam has them.'
...Quickbeam bowed like a tree bending in the wind and handed to Aragorn two great black keys of intricate shape, joined by a ring of steel."

[from dernwyn in 2014: “Do you know, this is the only place in the book where they are actually called the “Fellowship of the Ring”?]


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5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


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dernwyn
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Aug 16 2017, 1:52am

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"Here then at last comes the ending of the Fellowship of the Ring," said Aragorn. [In reply to] Can't Post

He does mention "fellowship" earlier, in The Breaking of the Fellowship: "What shall now become of our Company that has travelled so far in fellowship? Shall we turn west with Boromir and go to the wars of Gondor; or turn east to the Fear and Shadow; or shall we break our fellowship and go this way and that as each may choose?"

And Gimli, in The Treason of Isengard: "I should like a tale in the right order, starting with that strange day when our fellowship was broken."

And even Frodo, in The Window on the West: " And the more need of haste, if we two halflings are all that remain of our fellowship."

Followed by Faramir: "Mithrandir was lost!...An evil fate seems to have pursued your fellowship."

The term is used when they are reunited in The Field of Cormallen: " There Frodo and Sam learned much of all that had happened to the Company after their fellowship was broken on the evil day at Parth Galen by Rauros Falls..."

And again in The Steward and the King: "The hobbits still remained in Minas Tirith, with Legolas and Gimli; for Aragorn was loth for the fellowship to be dissolved."

Gandalf confirms it at the Grey Havens: "Well, here at last, dear friends, on the shores of the Sea comes the end of our fellowship in Middle-earth."

But Elrond called them the Company of the Ring, and notice that the other occurrences of "fellowship" are all lower-case, an adjective for the capitalized Company, by which they are consistently called, throughout the text.

So here's the question: why did Tolkien not either title the book The Company of the Ring, or instead, why did he not refer to them as Fellowship until that one instance?
Shocked


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"


grammaboodawg
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Aug 16 2017, 11:34am

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"The Company of the Ring? hmmmm.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm thinking "Fellowship" reflects the deep friendships and devotion each of these on the Quest felt. It's more intimate than the "Company"... which has a more military or assigned feel to it. But that's just me ;)


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Aug 16 2017, 11:35am

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TIME - August 16 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 16, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The Company reaches the Enchanted River.
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."...they found their path blocked by a running water. It flowed fast and strong but not very wide right across the way, and it was black, or looked it in the gloom. It was well that Beorn had warned them against it, or they would have drunk from it... ...and filled some of their emptied skins at its bank. As it was they only thought of how to cross it without wetting themselves in its water. There had been a bridge of wood across, but it had rotted and fallen leaving only the broken posts near the bank.
...Bilbo kneeling on the brink and peering forward cried: "There is a boat against the far bank! Now why couldn't it have been this side!"

..."...Fili picked up the hook when he had drawn it back, rather doubtfully all the same. This time he threw it with greater strength.
..."Steady!" said Bilbo, "you have thrown it right into the wood on the other side now. Draw it back gently." Fili hauled the rope back slowly, and after a while Bilbo said: "Carefully! It is lying on the boat; let's hope the hook will catch."
...It did. The rope went taut, and Fili pulled in vain. Kili came to his help, and then Óin and Glóin. They tugged and tugged, and suddenly they all fell over on their backs. Bilbo was on the lookout... ...caught the rope, and with a piece of stick fended off the little black boat as it came rushing across the stream. "Help!" he shouted, and Balin was just in time to seize the boat before it floated off down the current.
..."It was tied after all," said he… …"That was a good pull, my lads; and a good job that our rope was the stronger..."
......they were all soon on the far bank safe across the enchanted stream. Dwalin had just scrambled out with the coiled rope on his arm, and Bombur (still grumbling) was getting ready to follow, when something bad did happen. There was a flying sound of hooves on the path ahead. Out of the gloom came suddenly the shape of a flying deer. It charged into the dwarves and bowled them over… …High it sprang and cleared the water with a mighty jump. But it did not reach the other side in safety. Thorin was the only one who had kept his feet and his wits. As soon as they had landed he had bent his bow and fitted an arrow in case any hidden guardian of the boat appeared. Now he sent a swift and sure shot into the leaping beast. As it reached the further bank it stumbled. The shadows swallowed it up, but they heard the sound of hooves quickly falter and then go still.
...Before they could shout in praise of the shot... ...a dreadful wail from Bilbo put all thoughts of venison out of their minds. "Bombur has fallen in! Bombur is drowning!" he cried. It was only too true. Bombur had only one foot on the land when the hart bore down on him, and sprang over him. He had stumbled, thrusting the boat away from the bank, and then toppled back into the dark water….
......They could still see his hood above the water when they ran to the bank. Quickly they flung a rope with a hook towards him. His hand caught it, and they pulled him to the shore. He was drenched from hair to boots... ...When they laid him on the bank he was already fast asleep, with one hand clutching the rope so tight that they could not get it from his grasp; and fast asleep he remained in spite of all they could do."

the Enchanted Stream is never called a “river” in the text. Only on CJRT’s map is it labeled “Enchanted R.”.
from Bracegirdle 8/10/14


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 17 2017, 11:12am

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TIME - August 17 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 17, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. But what of Gandalf?
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."After Gandalf had departed from Bilbo and the Dwarves, he "had been to a great council of the white wizards, masters of lore and good magic; and that they had at last driven the Necromancer from his dark hold in the south of Mirkwood."
...[Gandalf] "'When did I first begin to guess?' he mused, searching back in memory... '...it was in the year that the White Council drove the dark power from Mirkwood, just before the Battle of Five Armies, that Bilbo found his ring. A shadow fell on my heart then,…'"
...[Galadriel] "'I it was who first summoned the White Council. And if my designs had not gone amiss, it would have been governed by Gandalf the grey, and then mayhap things would be gone otherwise.'"
...[Treebeard] '"He was very quiet to begin with, but his fame began to grow. He was chosen to be the head of the White Council, they say; but that did not turn out too well. I wonder now if even then Saruman was not turning to evil ways. But at any rate he used to give no trouble to his neighbours.'"


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dernwyn
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Aug 17 2017, 11:34am

Post #21 of 44 (3269 views)
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No, I get that impression, also [In reply to] Can't Post

"Company" sounds like a military group, everyone in it has their job to do, but "Fellowship" implies friendship and watching out for one another.

I can't recall offhand if it's in HoME, why Tolkien did not use "Fellowship" throughout the story. I think I would have preferred it, if he had!


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Otaku-sempai
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Aug 17 2017, 12:43pm

Post #22 of 44 (3267 views)
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What Treebeard says... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...[Treebeard] '"He was very quiet to begin with, but his fame began to grow. He was chosen to be the head of the White Council, they say; but that did not turn out too well. I wonder now if even then Saruman was not turning to evil ways. But at any rate he used to give no trouble to his neighbours.'"


Treebeard here is speaking of Saruman, not Gandalf, and the head of the White Council actually saw it in his best interests to approve of Gandalf's plan in TA 2941 to drive Sauron out of Dol Guldur, although Saruman had vetoed Gandalf's proposal ninety years earlier.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor


grammaboodawg
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Aug 17 2017, 12:59pm

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Yes... t'is Saruman [In reply to] Can't Post

It's interesting how Saruman shifted gears on dealing with Sauron when he was dealing with the Council.


pssst... I edited that part of the post to emphasize it's Saruman Treebeard is speaking about :) THANKS!


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(This post was edited by grammaboodawg on Aug 17 2017, 1:01pm)


Otaku-sempai
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Aug 17 2017, 1:22pm

Post #24 of 44 (3262 views)
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The Debate of the White Council of 2941 [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, Gandalf could have reached Rivendell (or wherever the White Council of 2941 convened) around the middle of August, though with the goblins aroused he might have had a tricky time getting back through the Misty Mountains. If the Council did meet in Rivendell, I wonder if they took a different route to reach Dol Guldur: either the Gap of Rohan or one of the more southerly passes. Not that the Wise gathered in strength had much to fear from some angry Orcs.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 17 2017, 1:23pm)


grammaboodawg
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Aug 18 2017, 12:20pm

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TIME - August 18 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 18, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. On the Mirkwood Forest Trail (day 23).
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)

..."...they were burdened with the heavy body of Bombur, which they had to carry along with them as best they could, taking the wearisome task in turns of four each while the others shared their packs. If these had not become all too light in the last few days, they would never have managed it; but a slumbering and smiling Bombur was a poor exchange for packs filled with food however heavy… …time came when there was practically nothing left to eat or to drink. Nothing wholesome could they see growing in the woods, only funguses and herbs with pale leaves and unpleasant smell."

August 18, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. They come to Helms Deep.
(from the appendices)

..."Now the guests were ready, and they drank the stirrup-cup, and with great praise and friendship they departed (from Edoras), and came at length to Helm's Deep… …Then Legolas repaid his promise to Gimli and went with him to the Glittering Caves; and when they returned he was silent, and would say only that Gimli alone could find fit words to speak of them. 'And never before has a Dwarf claimed a victory over an Elf in a contest of words,' said he. 'Now therefore, let us to go Fangorn and set the score right!'"


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 19 2017, 11:42am

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Today in Middle-earth

August 19, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Walk through open beech-woods much of the day.
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."...they came to a part where most of the trees were beeches. They were at first inclined to be cheered by the change, for here there was no undergrowth and the shadow was not so deep. There was a greenish light about them, and in places they could see some distance to either side of the path. Yet the light only showed them endless lines of straight grey trunks like the pillars of some huge twilight hall. There was a breath of air and a noise of wind, but it had a sad sound…. …Their feet ruffled among the dead leaves of countless other autumns that drifted over the banks of the path from the deep red carpets of the forest.
...Still Bombur slept and they grew very weary. At times they heard disquieting laughter. Sometimes there was singing in the distance too. The laughter was the laughter of voices not of goblins, and the singing was beautiful, but it sounded eerie and strange, and they were not comforted, rather they hurried on from those parts with what strength they had left."


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 20 2017, 12:13pm

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Today in Middle-earth

August 20, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The Company eats the last of their food at supper, and Bilbo climbs a tree.
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
...""Is there no end to this accursed forest?" said Thorin. "Somebody must climb a tree and see if he can get his head above the roof and have a look around. The only way is to choose the tallest tree that overhangs the path."
...Of course, "somebody" meant Bilbo. They chose him because... ...the climber must get his head above the topmost leaves, and so he must be light enough for the highest and slenderest branches to bear him. Poor Mr. Baggins had never had much practice in climbing trees, but they hoisted him up into the lowest branches of an enormous oak... ...and up he had to go as best he could. He pushed his way through the tangled twigs with many a slap in the eye… …more than once he slipped and caught himself just in time; and at last, after a dreadful struggle in a difficult place where there seemed to be no convenient branches at all, he got near the top. All the time he was wondering whether there were spiders in the tree, and how he was going to get down again (except by falling).
...In the end he poked his head above the roof of leaves... ...Bilbo's eyes were nearly blinded by the light. He could hear the dwarves shouting up at him from far below, but he could not answer, only hold on and blink. The sun was shining brilliantly, and it was a long while before he could bear it … …he saw all round him a sea of dark green, ruffled here and there by the breeze; and there were everywhere hundreds of butterflies. I expect they were a kind of 'purple emperor,' a butterfly that loves the tops of oak-woods, but these were not purple at all, they were a dark dark velvety black without any markings to be seen.
...He looked at the 'black emperors' for a long time, and enjoyed the feel of the breeze in his hair and on his face; but at length the cries of the dwarves, who were now simply stamping with impatience down below, reminded him of his real business. It was no good... ...he could see no end to the trees and the leaves in any direction. His heart, that had been lightened by the sight of the sun and the feel of the wind, sank back into his toes: there was no food to go back to down below.
...Actually... ...they were not far off the edge of the forest; and if Bilbo had had the sense to see it, the tree that he had climbed... ...was standing near the bottom of a wide valley, so that from its top the trees seemed to swell up all round like the edges of a great bowl, and he could not expect to see how far the forest lasted. Still he did not see this, and he climbed down full of despair…. …His report soon made the others as miserable as he was.
..."The forest goes on for ever and ever and ever in all directions…!"
...…That night they ate their very last scraps and crumbs of food...”


August 20, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. They set out from Helm's Deep for Isengard
(not from the appendices--includes no text)
..."From Deeping Comb they rode to Isengard."
It was a two-day journey at a leisurely pace, and the grand party of travellers enjoyed the peaceful journey. There would never again be such a company; Wizard, Elven Lords and Lady, Dwarf, Hobbits and Man riding together in Fellowship through the lands of Middle-earth.


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 21 2017, 10:17am

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Today in Middle-earth

August 21, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bombur awakes in morning and the Company leaves the path when they see the Elves' fire.
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."…when they woke the first thing they noticed was that they were still gnawingly hungry, and the next thing was that it was raining and that here and there the drip of it was dropping heavily on the forest floor. That only reminded them that they were also parchingly thirsty… …The only scrap of comfort there was, came unexpectedly from Bombur.
...He woke up suddenly and sat up scratching his head. He could not make out where he was at all, nor why he felt so hungry; for he had forgotten everything that had happened since they started their journey that May morning long ago... ...There was nothing now to be done but to tighten the belts round their empty stomachs, and hoist their empty sacks and packs, and trudge along the track without any great hope of ever getting to the end before they lay down and died of starvation....

......Balin, who was a little way ahead, called out: "What was that? I thought I saw a twinkle of light in the forest."
...They all looked, and a longish way off... ...they saw a red twinkle in the dark; then another and another sprang out beside it. Even Bombur got up, and they hurried along then, not caring if it was trolls or goblins. The light was in front of them and to the left of the path, and when at last they had drawn level with it, it seemed plain that torches and fires were burning under the trees, but a good way off their track.
..."It looks as if my dreams were coming true," gasped Bombur puffing up behind. He wanted to rush straight off into the wood after the lights. But the others remembered only too well the warnings of the wizard and of Beorn.
..."A feast would be no good, if we never got back alive from it," said Thorin.
..."But without a feast we shan't remain alive much longer anyway," said Bombur… …They argued about it backwards and forwards for a long while, until they agreed at length to send out a couple of spies, to creep near the lights and find out more about them. But then they could not agree on who was to be sent… …In the end, in spite of warnings, hunger decided them, because Bombur kept on describing all the good things that were being eaten, according to his dream, in the woodland feast; so they all left the path and plunged into the forest together.
...After a good deal of creeping and crawling they peered round the trunks and looked into a clearing where some trees had been felled and the ground levelled. There were many people there, elvish-looking folk… …sitting on sawn rings of the felled trees in a great circle. There was a fire in their midst and there were torches fastened to some of the trees round about; but the most splendid sight of all: they were eating and drinking and laughing merrily.
...The smell of the roast meats was so enchanting that… …every one of them got up and scrambled forwards into the ring with the one idea of begging for some food. No sooner had the first stepped into the clearing than all the lights went out as if by magic. Somebody kicked the fire and it went up in rockets of glittering sparks and vanished. They were lost in a completely lightless dark and they could not even find one another, not for a long time at any rate. After blundering frantically in the gloom… …and shouting and calling till they must have waked everything in the forest for miles, at last they managed to gather themselves in a bundle and count themselves by touch. By that time they had, of course, quite forgotten in what direction the path lay, and they were all hopelessly lost...

......But that was not the last of the lights in the forest. Later when the night must have been getting old, Kili who was watching then, came and roused them all again, saying:
..."There's a regular blaze of light begun not far away—hundreds of torches and many fires must have been lit suddenly and by magic. And hark to the singing and the harps!"
...After lying and listening for a while, they found that could not resist the desire to go nearer and try once more to get help... ...The elvish folk were passing bowls from hand to hand and across the fires, and some were harping and many were singing. Their gleaming hair was twined with flowers; green and white gems glinted on their collars and their belts; and their faces and their songs were filled with mirth. Loud and clear and fair were those songs, and out stepped Thorin into their midst.
...Dead silence fell in the middle of a word. Out went all the light. The fires leaped up in black smokes. Ashes and cinders were in the eyes of the dwarves, and the wood was filled again with their clamour and their cries.
...Bilbo found himself running round and round (as he thought) and calling and calling... ...the cries of the others got steadily further and fainter, and though after a while it seemed to him they changed to yells and cries for help in the far distance, all noise at last died right away, and he was left alone in complete silence and darkness...
......So he sat himself down with his back to a tree, and not for the last time fell to thinking of his far-distant hobbit-hole with its beautiful pantries."


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grammaboodawg
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Aug 22 2017, 10:28am

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TIME - August 22 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

1. Bilbo fights off spiders; Thorin captured by the Woodland Elves.
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."[Bilbo] sat himself down with his back to a tree, and not for the last time fell to thinking of his far-distant hobbit-hole with its beautiful pantries. He was deep in thoughts of bacon and eggs and toast and butter when... ...he felt something touch him. Something like a strong sticky string was against his left hand, and when he tried to move he found that his legs were already wrapped in the same stuff, so that when he got up he fell over.
...Then the great spider, who had been busy tying him up while he dozed, came from behind him and came at him.... ...He beat the creature off with his hands—it was trying to poison him to keep him quiet... ...until he remembered his sword and drew it out. Then the spider jumped back, and he had time to cut his legs loose. After that it was his turn to attack. The spider evidently was not used to things that carried such stings at their sides... ...Bilbo came at it... ...and struck it with his sword right in the eyes. Then it went mad and leaped and danced and flung out its legs in horrible jerks, until he killed it with another stroke; and then he fell down and remembered nothing more for a long time.
...There was the usual dim grey light of the forest-day about him when he came to his senses. The spider lay dead beside him, and his sword-blade was stained black. Somehow the killing of the giant spider, all alone by himself in the dark without the help of the wizard or the dwarves or of anyone else, made a great difference to Mr. Baggins. He felt a different person, and much fiercer and bolder... ...he wiped his sword on the grass and put it back into its sheath.
..."I will give you a name," he said to it, "and I shall call you Sting."

......he made as good a guess as he could at the direction from which the cries for help had come in the night... ...He had picked his way stealthily for some distance, when he noticed a place of dense black shadow ahead of him black even for that forest, like a patch of midnight that had never been cleared away. As he drew nearer, he saw that it was made by spider-webs one behind and over and tangled with another... ...Bilbo was horrified, now that he noticed them for the first time dangling in the shadows, to see a dwarvish foot sticking out of the bottoms of some of the bundles, or here and there the tip of a nose, or a bit of beard or of a hood.

......The idea came to him to lead the furious spiders further and further away from the dwarves... ...to make them curious, excited and angry all at once. When about fifty had gone off to the place where he had stood before, he threw some more stones at these, and at others that had stopped behind; then dancing among the trees he began to sing a song to infuriate them and bring them all after him, and also to let the dwarves hear his voice. This is what he sang:

Old fat spider spinning in a tree!
Old fat spider can't see me!
Attercop! Attercop!
Won't you stop,
Stop your spinning and look for me!


Old Tomnoddy, all big body,
Old Tomnoddy can't spy me!
Attercop! Attercop!
Down you drop!
You'll never catch me up your tree!


......As he sang he threw some more stones and stamped. Practically all the spiders in the place came after him: some dropped to the ground, others raced along the branches... ...Out came his little sword. He slashed the threads to pieces and went off singing.... ...They followed him into the forest until Bilbo had gone as far as he dared. Then quieter than a mouse he stole back...

......He had precious little time, he knew, before the spiders were disgusted and came back to their trees where the dwarves were hung....
......the other dwarves were working at the rest of the captives, and cutting at the threads with their knives. Soon all would be free...
......Down the dwarves scrambled or jumped or dropped, eleven all in a heap, most of them very shaky and little use on their legs. There they were at last, twelve of them counting poor old Bombur, who was being propped up on either side by his cousin Bifur, and his brother Bofur; and Bilbo was dancing about and waving his Sting; and hundreds of angry spiders were goggling at them all round and about and above. It looked pretty hopeless...
......Then the battle began. Some of the dwarves had knives, and some had sticks, and all of them could get at stones; and Bilbo had his elvish dagger. Again and again the spiders were beaten off, and many of them were killed. But it could not go on for long.... ...In the end Bilbo could think of no plan except to let the dwarves into the secret of his ring... ...He suddenly slipped on his ring, and to the great astonishment of the dwarves he vanished."

August 22, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. They come to Isengard; they take leave of the King of the West at Sunset.
(from the appendices)
..."From Deeping Coomb they rode to Isengard, and saw how the Ents had busied themselves. All the stone-circle had been thrown down and removed, and the land within was made into a garden filled with orchards and trees, and a stream ran through it; but in the midst of all there was a lake of clear water, and out of it the Tower of Orthanc rose still, tall and impregnable...
......For a while the travellers sat where once the old gates of Isengard had stood... ...But presently they heard a voice calling hoom-hom, hoom-hom; and there came Treebeard striding down the path to greet them with Quickbeam at his side.
...'Welcome to the Treegarth of Orthanc!.... ...Will you stay here and rest a while? And maybe there are some that would be pleased to pass through Fangorn Forest and so shorten their road home?' He looked at Celeborn and Galadriel.
...But all save Legolas said that they must now take their leave and depart either south or west. 'Come, Gimli!' said Legolas. 'Now by Fangorn's leave I will visit the deep places of the Entwood and see such trees as are nowhere else to be found in Middle-earth. You shall come with me and keep your word; and thus we will journey on together to our own lands in Mirkwood and beyond.' To this Gimli agreed....
...'...Here then at last comes the ending of the Fellowship of the Ring,' said Aragorn. 'Yet I hope that ere long you will return to my land with the help that you promised.'
...'We will come, if our own lords allow it,' said Gimli. 'Well, farewell, my hobbits! You should come safe to your own homes now, and I shall not be kept awake for fear of your peril. We will send word when we may, and some of us may yet meet at times; but I fear that we shall not all be gathered together ever again.'
...Then Treebeard said farewell... ...and he bowed three times slowly and with great reverence to Celeborn and Galadriel. 'It is long, long since we met by stock or by stone, A vanimar, vanimálion nostari!' he said. 'It is sad that we should meet only thus at the ending. For the world is changing: I feel it in the water, I feel it in the earth, and I smell it in the air. I do not think we shall meet again.'
...And Celeborn said: 'I do not know, Eldest.' But Galadriel said: 'Not in Middle-earth, or until the lands that lie under the wave are lifted up again. Then in the willow-meads of Tasarinan we may meet in the Spring. Farewell!'
...Last of all Merry and Pippin said good-bye to the old Ent, and he grew gayer as he looked at them. 'Well, my merry folk... ...will you drink another draught with me before you go?'
...'Indeed we will,' they said, and he took them aside into the shade of one of the trees...
.
......The travellers now rode with more speed, and they made their way towards the Gap of Rohan; and Aragorn took leave of them at last close to that very place where Pippin had looked into the Stone of Orthanc. The Hobbits were grieved at this parting; for Aragorn had never failed them and he had been their guide through many perils.
...'I wish we could have a Stone that we could see all our friends in,' said Pippin, 'and that we could speak to them from far away!'
...'Only one now remains that you could use,' answered Aragorn... '...But the Palantír of Orthanc the King will keep, to see what is passing in his realm, and what his servants are doing. For do not forget, Peregrin Took, that you are a knight of Gondor, and I do not release you from your service.... ...And remember, dear friends of the Shire, that my realm lies also in the North, and I shall come there one day...'
......With that they parted, and it was then the time of sunset; and when after a while they turned and looked back, they saw the King of the West sitting upon his horse with his knights about him; and the falling Sun shone upon them and made all their harness to gleam like red gold, and the white mantle of Aragorn was turned to a flame. Then Aragorn took the green stone and held it up, and there came a green fire from his hand."


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Otaku-sempai
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Aug 22 2017, 2:38pm

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Dates for the Quest of Erebor (continued) [In reply to] Can't Post

Tolkien only gives us a handful of firm dates for the events of The Hobbit, mostly in the text of the book, though we learn elsewhere (The Lord of the Rings) that the company arrived at Lake-town on Bilbo's birthday (to get ahead of ourselves a bit). Those dates do allow us to deduce the dates of a number of other milestones during the Quest of Erebor; however, others can only be determined by educated guesswork based on such factors as distance and apparent travel speeds.

The dates provided in the timeline for The Hobbit devised by Karen Wynn Fonstad in her The Atlas of Middle-earth are fairly solid for the most part. There is some margin for error in the company's journeys through Erebor and Mirkwood, but her speculations hold up pretty well. It is not until after the Company of Thorin reaches Erebor that I take issue with the dates she provides, mostly those days conntected to Durin's Day. For reasons that I've specified before, I think that she places the events around Durin's Day a week or so too late. Her dates for the Battle of Five Armies and the departure of Bilbo and Gandalf from Erebor, accompanied by Beorn and the host of Thranduil, seem reasonably solid.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor


grammaboodawg
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Aug 23 2017, 10:48am

Post #31 of 44 (2285 views)
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TIME - August 23 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 23, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. The dwarves surrender when surrounded by Elves, but Bilbo uses Ring and disappears.
(from Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."...after the battle with the spiders Bilbo and the dwarves made one last despairing effort to find a way out before they died of hunger and thirst... ...when suddenly out sprang the light of many torches all round them, like hundreds of red stars. Out leaped Wood-elves with their bows and spears and called the dwarves to halt.
...There was no thought of a fight. Even if the dwarves had not been in such a state that they were actually glad to be captured, their small knives, the only weapons they had, would have been of no use against the arrows of the elves... ...So they simply stopped dead and sat down and waited—all except Bilbo, who popped on his ring and slipped quickly to one side. That is why, when the elves bound the dwarves in a long line, one behind the other, and counted them, they never found or counted the hobbit.
...Nor did they hear or feel him trotting along well behind their torch-light as they led off their prisoners into the forest... ...Bilbo had all he could do to keep up with the torches, for the elves were making the dwarves go as fast as ever they could, sick and weary as they were...
......Across this bridge the elves thrust their prisoners, but Bilbo hesitated in the rear. He did not at all like the look of the cavern-mouth and he only made up his mind not to desert his friends just in time to scuttle over at the heels of the last elves, before the great gates of the king closed behind them with a clang."


August 23, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. Frodo prepares to leave Bag End.
(not from the appendices)
..."'Merry Brandybuck is looking out for a nice little hole for me, or perhaps a small house.'
...As a matter of fact with Merry's help he had already chosen and bought a little house at Crickhollow in the country beyond Bucklebury. To all but Sam he pretended he was going to settle down there permanently. The decision to set out eastwards had suggested the idea to him; for Buckland was on the eastern borders of the Shire, and as he had lived there in childhood his going back would at least seem credible."


August 23, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The company has parted from the King Elessar
(not from the appendices)
..."Soon the dwindling company, following the Isen, turned west and rode through the Gap into the waste lands beyond, and then they turned northwards, and passed over the borders of Dunland. The Dunlendings fled and hid themselves, for they were afraid of Elvish folk, though few indeed ever came to their country; but the travellers did not heed them, for they were still a great company and were well provided with all that they needed; and they went on their way at their leisure, setting up their tents when they would..."


August 23, 3020 (S.R. 1420)
1. The Shire still recovers
(not from the appendices)
..."Altogether 1420 in the Shire was a marvellous year. Not only was there wonderful sunshine and delicious rain, in due times and perfect measure, but there seemed something more: an air of richness and growth, and a gleam of a beauty beyond that of mortal summers that flicker and pass upon this Middle-earth."


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
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grammaboodawg
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Aug 23 2017, 2:01pm

Post #32 of 44 (2274 views)
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I agree on the Durin's Day adjustment [In reply to] Can't Post

I've already gone in and made many changes while we followed these concerns last fall. She's done such an amazing job with her maps, charts and calculation... I'm in constant awe of her dedication. As I've said before, the beauty of Tolkien's works is there is so much left for personal interpretation! We constantly get to make the story our own. *sigh*

We're so lucky!!!! :D


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 24 2017, 11:39am

Post #33 of 44 (2255 views)
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TIME - August 24 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 24-September 6, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo tries to adapt to life in hiding.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."Poor Mr. Baggins---it was a weary long time that he lived in that place all alone, and always in hiding, never daring to take off his ring, hardly daring to sleep, even tucked away in the darkest and remotest corners... ...he took to wandering about the Elven-king's palace. Magic shut the gates, but he could sometimes get out, if he was quick. Companies of the Wood-elves, sometimes with the king at their head, would from time to time ride out to hunt, or to other business in the woods and in the lands to the East. Then if Bilbo was very nimble, he could slip out just behind them... ...which was not very often... ...He did not wish to desert the dwarves, and indeed he did not know where in the world to go without them.... ...He was hungry too outside, for he was no hunter; but inside the caves he could pick up a living of some sort of stealing food from store or table when no one was at hand.
..."I am a burglar that can't get away, but must go on miserably burgling the same house day after day... ...I wish I was back in my hobbit-hole by my own warm fireside with the lamp shining!" He often wished, too, that he could get a message for help sent to the wizard, but that of course was quite impossible; and he soon realized that if anything was to be done, it would have to be done by Mr. Baggins, alone and unaided."


sample

We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 25 2017, 12:00pm

Post #34 of 44 (2233 views)
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TIME - August 25 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 25, 3018 (S.R. 1418)
1. All of Hobbiton whispered and wondered at Frodo's announcement to move to Buckland.
(not from the appendices)
..."...But so firmly fixed had the notion of the immeasurable wealth of the Bagginses of Bag End become that most found this hard to believe, harder than any other reason or unreason that their fancy could suggest: to most it suggested a dark and yet unrevealed plot by Gandalf. Though he kept himself very quiet and did not go about by day, it was well known that he was 'hiding up in the Bag End'. But however a removal might fit in with the designs of his wizardry, there was no doubt about the fact: Frodo Baggins was going back to Buckland.
...'Yes, I shall be moving this autumn,' he said. 'Merry Brandybuck is looking out for a nice little hole for me, or perhaps a small house.'"


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We have been there and back again.


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
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5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 26 2017, 9:54am

Post #35 of 44 (2214 views)
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TIME - August 26 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 26, 3020 (S.R. 1420)
(not from the appendices)
..."In the Southfarthing the vines were laden, and the yield of 'leaf' was astonishing; and everywhere there was so much corn that at Harvest every barn was stuffed. The Northfarthing barley was so fine that the beer of 1420 malt was long remembered and became a byword. Indeed a generation later one might hear an old gaffer in an inn, after a good pint of well-earned ale, put down his mug with a sign: 'Ah! that was a proper fourteen-twenty, that was!'"


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
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5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Otaku-sempai
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Aug 26 2017, 2:34pm

Post #36 of 44 (2194 views)
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I do wonder about the corn [In reply to] Can't Post

Surely it wasn't the corn that was originally called maize, unless we want to say that it was brought to Middle-earth by Númenórean explorers (a possible origin for pipeweed as well). It seems more likely that this was wheat, barley, oats or some other cereal grain. Or maybe it was a combination of such grains.

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Aug 26 2017, 2:36pm)


grammaboodawg
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Aug 27 2017, 12:58pm

Post #37 of 44 (2114 views)
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hmmmmm.... [In reply to] Can't Post

It falls under the veil of curiosity along with "pop-gun" and "express train" :)


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5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 27 2017, 1:00pm

Post #38 of 44 (2116 views)
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TIME - August 27 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 27, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The Company makes its way north.
(not from the appendices)
..."...Often long after the hobbits were wrapped in sleep [Elrond, Gandalf, Celeborn and Galadriel] would sit together under the stars, recalling the ages that were gone and all their joys and labours in the world, or holding council, concerning the days to come. If any wanderer had chanced to pass, little would he have seen or heard, and it would have seemed to him only that he saw grey figures, carved in stone, memorials of forgotten things now lost in unpeopled lands. For they did not move or speak with their mouth, looking from mind to mind and only their shining eyes stirred and kindled as their thoughts went to and fro."


sample

We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
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5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Aug 27 2017, 1:38pm

Post #39 of 44 (2114 views)
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Not entirely... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It falls under the veil of curiosity along with "pop-gun" and "express train" :)


That would be more true if those words and phrases were attributed directly to Bilbo or another character, and not simply similes used by the 'narrator'. Those aren't anachronisms in the same sense as tobacco or mantle clock.

The origins of the word corn can be traced back to Old English and Old Norse as a synonym for grain; that is likely how it is being used here (movies be damned).

"Who I am is where I stand. Where I stand is where I fall.” -- The Doctor


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 28 2017, 10:36am

Post #40 of 44 (2085 views)
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TIME - August 28 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 28, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo searches out each Dwarf's cell
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."Eventually... ...by watching and following the guards and taking what chances he could, he managed to find out where each dwarf was kept. He found all their twelve cells in different parts of the palace, and after a time he got to know his way about very well. What was his surprise one day to overhear some of the guards talking and to learn that there was another dwarf in prison too, in a specially deep dark place. He guessed at once... ...that that was Thorin; and after a while he found that his guess was right."

August 28, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. They overtake Saruman
(from the appendices)
..."...As they came out again into open country at sundown they overtook an old man leaning on a staff, and he was clothed in rags of grey or dirty white, and at his heels went another beggar, slouching and whining.
...'Well Saruman!' said Gandalf. 'Where are you going?'
...'What is that to you?' he answered. 'Will you still order my goings, and are you not content with my ruin?'
...'You know the answers,' said Gandalf: 'no and no. But in any case the time of my labours now draws to an end... ...But will you scorn our help? For we offer it to you.'
...'To me?' said Saruman. 'Nay, pray do not smile at me! I prefer your frowns. And as for the Lady here, I do not trust her: she always hated me, and schemed for your part. I do not doubt that she has brought you this way to have the pleasure of gloating over my poverty...'
...'...Saruman,' said Galadriel, 'we have other errands and other cares that seem to us more urgent than hunting for you. Say rather that you are overtaken by good fortune; for now you have a last chance.'
...'If it be truly the last, I am glad... ...for I shall be spared the trouble of refusing it again. All my hopes are ruined, but I would not share yours...'
...'...Go!' he said. 'I did not spend long study on these matters for naught. You have doomed yourselves, and you know it. And it will afford me some comfort as I wander to think that you pulled down your own house when you destroyed mine. And now, what ship will bear you back across so wide a sea?' he mocked. 'It will be a grey ship, and full of ghosts.' He laughed, but his voice was cracked and hideous..."

......As the wretched pair passed by the company, they came to the hobbits, and Saruman stopped and stared at them; but they looked at him with pity.
...'So you have come to gloat too... ...my urchins?'"

2. Saruman turns towards the Shire.
(from the appendices)
..."Saruman laughed.... '...you hobbit-lordlings, riding along with all those great people, so secure and so pleased with your little selves. You thought you had done very well out of it all, and could now just amble back and have a nice quiet time in the country. Saruman's home could be all wrecked, and he could be turned out, but no one could touch yours. Oh no! Gandalf would look after your affairs... ...But you must go dangling after him, dawdling and talking, and riding round twice as far as you needed. "Well," thought I, "if they're such fools, I will get ahead of them and teach them a lesson. One ill turn deserves another..." ...And it will be pleasant to think of that and set it against my injuries.'"


sample

We have been there and back again.


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 29 2017, 11:18am

Post #41 of 44 (2063 views)
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It's time for some BS! [In reply to] Can't Post


Here's a Book Spoiler continuing the discussion between Saruman, Wormtongue and some hobbits in the middle of the road... for a moment of Tolkien-zen.

From Many Partings: The Return of the King


...”'So you have come to gloat too... ...my urchins?' he said. 'You don't care what a beggar lacks, do you! For you have all you want, food and fine clothes, and the best weed for your pipes. Oh yes... ...I know where it comes from. You would not give a pipeful to a beggar, would you!'
...'I would, if I had any,' said Frodo.
...'You can have what I have got left,' said Merry... ...he handed to Saruman a leather pouch. 'Take what there is... ...You are welcome to it; it came from the flotsam of Isengard.'
...'Mine, mine, yes and dearly bought!' cried Saruman, clutching at the pouch... '...a beggar must be grateful, if a thief returns him even a morsel of his own. Well, it will serve you right when you come home, if you find things less good in the Southfarthing than you would like. Long may your land be short of leaf!'
...'Thank you!' said Merry. 'In that case I will have my pouch back, which is not yours and has journeyed far with me. Wrap the weed in a rag of your own.'
...'One thief deserves another,' said Saruman, and turned his back on Merry... ...and went away towards the wood.
...'Well, I like that!' said Pippin. 'Thief indeed! What of our claim for waylaying, wounding, and orc-dragging us through Rohan?'
...'Ah!' said Sam. 'And "bought" he said. How, I wonder! And I didn't like the sound of what he said about the Southfarthing. It's time we got back.'
...'I'm sure it is,' said Frodo. 'But we can't go any quicker, if we are to see Bilbo. I am going to Rivendell first, whatever happens.'
...'Yes, I think you had better do that,' said Gandalf... '...alas for Saruman! I fear nothing more can be made of him. He has withered altogether. All the same, I am not sure that Treebeard is right: I fancy he could do some mischief still in a small mean way.'"


sample

We have been there and back again.


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 30 2017, 10:26am

Post #42 of 44 (2000 views)
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TIME - August 30 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

August 30, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Gandalf rides to a meeting.
(not from the appendices-no text)
...It's been a full month since leaving Bilbo and the Dwarves at the edge of Mirkwood Forest, and Gandalf's thoughts never left them. For days while he was racing south, he was anxious and felt the call to turn back; but his first pledge had been made long before finding Thorin at the Prancing Pony and arranging the Quest. Now he felt sure they weren't in any immediate danger, and so his attention was turned to the task at hand as he kept an ear open for news from the north.


sample

We have been there and back again.


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6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Aug 31 2017, 10:13am

Post #43 of 44 (1963 views)
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It's time for some BS! [In reply to] Can't Post

Continuing with the BS of the Company meeting up with Saruman and Wormtongue, let's see more Book Spoiler of what followed… for a moment of Tolkien-zen.

From Many Partings: The Return of the King


..."[The Company] went on into northern Dunland, where no man now dwelt, though it was a green and pleasant country… …with golden days and silver nights, and they rode at ease until they reached the Swanfleet river, and found the old ford, east of the falls where it went down suddenly into the lowlands. Far to the west in a haze lay the meres and eyots through which it wound its way to the Greyflood: there countless swans housed in a land of reeds.... So they passed into Eregion, and at last a fair morning dawned, shimmering above gleaming mists; and looking from their camp on a low hill the travellers saw… …in the east the Sun catching three peaks that thrust up into the sky through floating clouds: Caradhras, Celebdil, and Fanuidhol."


sample

We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Sep 1 2017, 10:49am

Post #44 of 44 (1944 views)
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TIME - September 1 [In reply to] Can't Post

Today in Middle-earth

September 1, 2941 (S.R. 1341)
1. Bilbo finally finds one he sought.
(determined from text - referencing Karen Wynn Fonstad, The Atlas of Middle-earth)
..."...after a week or two of this sneaking sort of life, by watching and following the guards and taking what chances he could, he managed to find out where each dwarf was kept. He found all their twelve cells in different parts of the palace, and after a time he got to know his way about very well."

September 1, 3019 (S.R. 1419)
1. The Company makes its way north.
(not from the appendices)
..."They went on into northern Dunland, where no man now dwelt, though it was a green and pleasant country. September came in with golden days and silver nights, and they rode at ease u0ntil they reached the Swanfleet river, and found the old ford, east of the falls where it went down suddenly into the lowlands. Far to the west in a haze lay the meres and eyots through which it wound its way to the Greyflood....
...So they passed into Eregion, and at last a fair morning dawned, shimmering above gleaming mists; and looking from their camp on a low hill the travellers saw away in the east the Sun catching three peaks that thrust up into the sky through floating clouds: Caradhras, Celebdil, and Fanuidhol. They were near to the Gates of Moria."

September 1, 3020 (S.R. 1420)
1. The Shire thrives.
(not from the appendices)
..."Altogether 1420 in the Shire was a marvellous year. Not only was there wonderful sunshine and delicious rain, in due times and perfect measure, but there seemed something more: an air of richness and growth, and a gleam of a beauty beyond that of mortal summers that flicker and pass upon this Middle-earth. All the children born or begotten in that year... ...were fair to see and strong, and most of them had a rich golden hair that had before been rare among hobbits. The fruit was so plentiful that young hobbits very nearly bathed in strawberries and cream; and later they sat on the lawns under the plum-trees and ate, until they had made piles of stones like small pyramids or the heaped skulls of a conqueror... ...And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass." in that year, and there were many, were fair to see and strong, and most of them had a rich golden hair that had before been rare among hobbits. The fruit was so plentiful that young hobbits very nearly bathed in strawberries and cream... ...they sat on the lawns under the plum-trees and ate, until they had make piles of stones like small pyramids or the heaped skulls of a conqueror, and then they moved on. And no one was ill, and everyone was pleased, except those who had to mow the grass."


sample

We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit

 
 

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