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If Beren and Luthien was made into a movie...

ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 13 2017, 1:35am

Post #1 of 46 (2310 views)
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If Beren and Luthien was made into a movie... Can't Post

With Beren and Luthien's publication three months away, here are some questions on possibly making this book into a film or miniseries.

1. Would you want to see an adaptation?
2. If so, what medium would you want to see it in (film, TV)?
3. How much of the rest of The Silmarillion would you want to see?
4. Who should play the legendary couple?
5. What screenwriters/directors/producers do you think would create an adaptation that would satisfy your standards?
6. What other characters/actors would you want to see in the adaptation?

I always follow my job through.

(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 13 2017, 1:37am)


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 13 2017, 5:02pm

Post #2 of 46 (2174 views)
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Anyone? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


rangerfromthenorth
Rivendell

Feb 13 2017, 8:47pm

Post #3 of 46 (2162 views)
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My thoughts [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Would you want to see an adaptation?

Yes, very much so. i think this story of the Silmarillion sets itself up best for an adaptation. But I would really like to see someone besides PJ do it. I think he did an excellent job with the LoTR because he had something to prove. The Hobbit adaptions were not well done and one of the major problems is PJ's success went to his head and perhaps no one was able or willing to tell him "No" to his crazy ideas.

I want someone who has respect for the source material and who has something to prove.

2. If so, what medium would you want to see it in (film, TV)?

Definitely a movie. because of Sauron, Huan, Morgoth, and the grandness it would require for special effects, it must be a movie and not a TV Show.

3. How much of the rest of The Silmarillion would you want to see?

I would like as much as I can get, if it is done well.

4. Who should play the legendary couple?

I have no idea, but I like the idea of using no-name, or little known, actors as PJ has done in the past.

5. What screenwriters/directors/producers do you think would create an adaptation that would satisfy your standards?

As mentioned above, someone besides PJ. I wouldn;t mind if there were others from the LoTR involved, but I want new blood.

6. What other characters/actors would you want to see in the adaptation?

I really do not know. Howard Shore would be welcomed again!

Not all those who wander are lost


Darkstone
Immortal


Feb 13 2017, 10:20pm

Post #4 of 46 (2157 views)
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Hmmmm..... [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Would you want to see an adaptation?

A good adaptation, or at least an adaptation so bad it’s good.


2. If so, what medium would you want to see it in (film, TV)?

Yes. Anime would be nice too.


3. How much of the rest of The Silmarillion would you want to see?

As much as they can cram in. And HoME.


4. Who should play the legendary couple?

I’m tempted to say Liv Tyler and Viggo Mortensen. They’re both good actors and seem to readily blend into new roles. But Tyler especially since she seems to be the only actor in the world who realizes Elves are not Vulcans but rather deeply emotional beings.

Otherwise Scarlett Johanssen and Sebastian Stan.

5. What screenwriters/directors/producers do you think would create an adaptation that would satisfy your standards?

Screenwriters: Gina Prince-Bythewood, Roxane Gay, and Michel Ocelot.
Director: Gina Prince-Bythewood
Producer: Kathleen Kennedy

6. What other characters/actors would you want to see in the adaptation?

Kenneth Branagh as Sauron, Stanley Tucci as Fingol, Danny Trejo as Finrod, Christopher Walken as Celegorm, Steve Buscemi as Curufin, John C. Reilly as Huan, and Benicio Del Toro as Carcharoth.

******************************************
“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
"Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
"Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
"But no living man am I! I am Eowyn, daughter of Theodwyn!”
"Er, really? My mother's name was Theodwyn, too!"
"No way!"
"Way!"
"Wow! Let's stop fighting and be best friends!"
"Cool!!"

-Zack Snyder's The Return of the King


enanito
Lorien

Feb 14 2017, 9:21pm

Post #5 of 46 (2116 views)
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Either "go big", or "keep it intimate" [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm uncertain how I'd prefer an adaptation to be filmed. In some ways I'd almost like to see it done in a "Netflix" fashion, outside of the standard Hollywood-blockbuster implementation. Obviously you'd want to throw enough money at it so that it's not just a fan film (which are great, just lacking in the oomph required to transmit the scale of Middle Earth and the power of the baddies).

But I must confess, I'm one of those "almost any adaptation is welcome" kind of people -- quite heretical for many faithful RR denizens, I know. And I completely understand why this is an unsavory opinion to many/most/everyone-but-me. But I can enjoy the Hobbit movies for what they are, similar to how I can enjoy the Star Wars prequels in a way that many others cannot. I surely can appreciate how they are lesser in most every degree to the other movies in the series, but I still find I enjoy them. I wish they all measured up, but I'm happy to have them anyways.

So regarding B & L, if I had to choose between a 'pretty good movie or TV series', and 'nothing at all because I'd only want something that measures up to the source material', I think I'd choose option (a) Wink


CuriousG
Half-elven


Feb 14 2017, 9:45pm

Post #6 of 46 (2119 views)
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Heresy in the Reading Room--where are the burning stakes when you need them? [In reply to] Can't Post

Just kidding, of course.

I'm torn on this question because I don't see how it could be done in a way that would 1) do justice to the tale in terms of backstory (what's a Maia, why does Thingol not like Men, who was Thingol, why is Luthien the most beautiful person ever, etc) and 2) not boring to death a poor film audience who didn't want endless backstory on the above, and who Morgoth is, and who Sauron used to be, and Fearnor, and the Trees and Silmarils and Valar and--you get the idea. Would there be a 30-minute voiceover with the past events at a blur?

OK, so scratch all that, and try to make it an adventure & love story. That might work for fans of the Jackson movies who wanted to see the latest installment from Middle-earth, but they might wonder where all the Dwarves and hobbits were. Just how much can you abbreviate the past and make this a distiinctive love story, or does it become of necessity just another love story, and then what's the point?

I'm confessing more to a lack of imagination of how to do this right rather than saying it's a bad idea. If someone could do it right, i.e., please both book fans and the general audience, I would be first in line to watch it. (How do you cast Huan the Hound?)


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 15 2017, 3:36pm

Post #7 of 46 (2083 views)
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My answers for my questions [In reply to] Can't Post

1. I would want to see an adaptation.

2. To me, I don't particularly care. If I was being practical, I'd aim for a miniseries

3. Probably the directly leading events at the least in a five-minute prologue or even a summary onscreen leading into the life of the outlaws of the House of Beor.

4. My choices would be Richard Madden (Game of Thrones) as Beren and Alicia Vikander as Luthien.

5. For a director, I would choose Michael Mann or Kenneth Branagh. As a screenwriter, I would have Chris Weitz, the screenwriter for Cinderella.

6. I'd like to see :
Adam Driver as Sauron
Paul Bettany as Thingol
Eva Green as Melian
Harry Lloyd and Iwan Rheon as Celegorm and Curufin
Idris Elba as Huan

Composer: John Williams.

I always follow my job through.

(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 15 2017, 3:37pm)


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 15 2017, 3:42pm

Post #8 of 46 (2083 views)
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To diverge... [In reply to] Can't Post

For The Children of Hurin, I'd have Alejandro Inarritu as director and George R.R. Martin as the screenwriter. Children of Hurin is a story he'd like.

I always follow my job through.


Darkstone
Immortal


Feb 15 2017, 3:52pm

Post #9 of 46 (2084 views)
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No [In reply to] Can't Post

I wouldn't want Martin to have anything to do with a Tolkien screenplay. Explicit misogyny and sexual violence have no place in Middle-earth.

******************************************
“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
"Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
"Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
"But no living man am I! I am Eowyn, daughter of Theodwyn!”
"Er, really? My mother's name was Theodwyn, too!"
"No way!"
"Way!"
"Wow! Let's stop fighting and be best friends!"
"Cool!!"

-Zack Snyder's The Return of the King

(This post was edited by Darkstone on Feb 15 2017, 3:53pm)


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 15 2017, 3:54pm

Post #10 of 46 (2082 views)
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You've read The Children of Hurin, right? [In reply to] Can't Post

Graphic violence, stupid-ass decisions and incest are all part of the ball-game, along with the bad guys winning.

I always follow my job through.


Darkstone
Immortal


Feb 15 2017, 4:24pm

Post #11 of 46 (2085 views)
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Yes, but... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'd rather not have to watch multiple overlong explicit scenes of Brodda beating and raping Aerin.

******************************************
“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
"Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
"Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
"But no living man am I! I am Eowyn, daughter of Theodwyn!”
"Er, really? My mother's name was Theodwyn, too!"
"No way!"
"Way!"
"Wow! Let's stop fighting and be best friends!"
"Cool!!"

-Zack Snyder's The Return of the King


enanito
Lorien

Feb 15 2017, 10:20pm

Post #12 of 46 (2047 views)
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Would even a 5-minute summary be necessarily required? [In reply to] Can't Post

There's plenty of successful movies that just throw the viewer directly into the mix, with plenty of unknowns swirling around. Yet we discover as we go along, details that start to fit into the puzzle. When done properly, you can feel that something is important, even if you can't yet figure out why. Certain directors are even fêted by critics in how they leave certain unknowns in the viewers minds, and avoid wrapping up all the loose details with nice shiny bows. Granted, as has been discussed on the Forum, it's a fine line between an author who uses 'info gaps' to allow the reader to fill them in on their own, and a lazy author who has missing pieces in the story that end up distracting from the storyline.

I enjoyed the story of Beren and Lúthien in my first readings of LOTR, without having any clue about really anything pertaining to their lives or backstories beyond what was mentioned right there. Sure it means more to me now, but it captured my imagination even then.

So I'd hope if a movie/mini-series were made, it would be able to find that same sweet spot that moved us when we read LOTR without having read the Sil or any other of Tolkien's writings. Of course you thrown in tidbits that would excite those "in-the-know", without detracting from the experience of newbies. Kind of like how an effective children's movie can actually be entertaining for everyone by throwing in cultural references that might go over the heads of six year olds, but are meaningful to adults.


(This post was edited by enanito on Feb 15 2017, 10:22pm)


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 15 2017, 11:43pm

Post #13 of 46 (2035 views)
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Any other thoughts? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


Meneldor
Valinor


Feb 16 2017, 1:29am

Post #14 of 46 (2041 views)
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I totally agree with enanito. [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't read the Sil in order the first time I tried, and I ended up reading Beren and Luthien without much context. And I loved the tale so much that I read it more than once before I managed to slog my way through the whole history and finally put all the details of the story into context.

With good writing, direction, and editing, I think B&L could work as a stand-alone epic adventure, and still include lots of subtle references and easter eggs for the hardcore fans.


They that go down to the sea in ships, that do business in great waters, these see the works of the Lord, and His wonders in the deep. -Psalm 107


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 16 2017, 3:47pm

Post #15 of 46 (2001 views)
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So if we dispense with the prologue, [In reply to] Can't Post

Where would the action start? The betrayal of Gorlim?

I always follow my job through.


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 16 2017, 3:48pm

Post #16 of 46 (1996 views)
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Like cast and crew? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 16 2017, 3:51pm

Post #17 of 46 (1998 views)
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Also, wholesale torture is no stranger to Middle-Earth. [In reply to] Can't Post

I could imagine a torture scene involving rats and a bucket in Angband.

I always follow my job through.

(This post was edited by ange1e4e5 on Feb 16 2017, 3:57pm)


noWizardme
Valinor


Feb 16 2017, 4:19pm

Post #18 of 46 (1997 views)
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I do agree that a don't explain-everything story would be possible (whether or not 'possible' is distinct from 'desirable' depends on what one would look for in such a film) [In reply to] Can't Post

I can imagine Beren and Luthien as a standalone story. But this raises the question of whether First Age Belereiand and the wars between Morgoth and the elves can be reduced to a setting for an adventure tale about two lovers, and the seemingly impossible task the lovers pull off in order to fulfil the hostile father-of-the-bride's conditions for their marriage. Arguably, you don't have to know the detail of what a simaril is or who Morgoth is to follow the idea that Beren has to steal the Big Bad's crown jewels, that Luthien loves him enough to defy her father and help him, and that they then have an exciting adventure involving magic and werewolves.

So I do agree that a don't -explain-everything story would be possible (whether or not 'possible' is distinct from 'desirable'), just as it's possible to tell Apocalypse Now as a story without Francis Ford Coppola needing to include a full history lesson on the Vietnam War. The Vietnam War is a setting in which Apocalypse Now can explore what happens when people with a weak moral compass are allowed to do just about anything they want, just as the Belgian Congo was a suitable setting for the tale as it was originally (Coppola's film is of course a retelling of Joseph Conrad's Heart of Darkness).

I think that's where all these "could there/should there be a film or TV version of Tolkien work [x]" discussions end up BTW : people differ about what their priorities would be in a film. Is simplification OK if the characters are well enough written and acted to make the simplified story engaging? Or is it OK if there are enough fights and stunts, and exciting special effects, or if the actors cast as Beren and Luthien are fanciable enough (or other priorities according to what each person looks for in the film)? Then again, does simplification ruin the work, or betray Tolkien's vision of it ?(Tolkien didn't attempt a standalone treatment, even though his publisher was soon pleading for further LOTR-like stories. He seemed to want to tell the story only as part of an epic sweep - so epic that he could not finish it in his lifetime). Answers differ, and the idea of a film (or an actual film) delights or appals us each accordingly.

BTW - why are we discussing film treatments in the Reading Room? Main might give this post a bigger audience

~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 16 2017, 4:55pm

Post #19 of 46 (1989 views)
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Because someone else put this type of thread into this forum for The Children of Hurin. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 17 2017, 4:31pm

Post #20 of 46 (1944 views)
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If it happened at all. We don't know. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


Darkstone
Immortal


Feb 17 2017, 5:41pm

Post #21 of 46 (1934 views)
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You've read The Children of Hurin, right? [In reply to] Can't Post

But the homestead of Húrin soon fell into decay, and though Morwen laboured hard she was poor, and would have gone hungry but for the help that was sent to her secretly by Aerin, Húrin’s kinswoman; for a certain Brodda, one of the Easterlings, had taken her by force to be his wife.
-Chapter IV, The Departure of Turin

“Often would she and her daughter have gone hungry, but for the Lady Aerin. She aided them in secret, it is said, and was often beaten for it by the churl Brodda, her husband by need.”
-Chapter XII, The Return of Túrin to Dorlómin

******************************************
“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
"Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
"Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
"But no living man am I! I am Eowyn, daughter of Theodwyn!”
"Er, really? My mother's name was Theodwyn, too!"
"No way!"
"Way!"
"Wow! Let's stop fighting and be best friends!"
"Cool!!"

-Zack Snyder's The Return of the King


Hamfast Gamgee
Grey Havens

Feb 17 2017, 6:13pm

Post #22 of 46 (1918 views)
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As opposed to Morgoth beating up and raping the Elves later in the Silm? [In reply to] Can't Post

All right not so much the raping. Though, reading between the lines, I do suspect it happened. Also, did not Morgoth have lustful scenes towards Luthien in the chapter, though that could just be my interpretation.


Darkstone
Immortal


Feb 17 2017, 6:39pm

Post #23 of 46 (1917 views)
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Or Celebrian's torment [In reply to] Can't Post

In 2509 Celebrian wife of Elrond was journeying to Lórien when she was waylaid in the Redhorn Pass, and her escort being scattered by the sudden assault of the Orcs, she was seized and carried off. She was pursued and rescued by Elladan and Elrohir, but not before she had suffered torment and had received a poisoned wound. She was brought back to Imladris, and though healed in body by Elrond, lost all delight in Middle-earth, and the next year went to the Havens and passed over Sea.
-Appendix A, The Numenorean Kings, (iii) Eriador, Arnor and the heirs of Isildur


In Reply To
Though, reading between the lines, I do suspect it happened.


I'm sure where there's even the slightest hint in the text of a situation where a female might be humiliated, beaten, and/or raped Martin would turn it into an explicit and overlong showpiece.

******************************************
“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
"Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
"Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
"But no living man am I! I am Eowyn, daughter of Theodwyn!”
"Er, really? My mother's name was Theodwyn, too!"
"No way!"
"Way!"
"Wow! Let's stop fighting and be best friends!"
"Cool!!"

-Zack Snyder's The Return of the King


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 17 2017, 7:24pm

Post #24 of 46 (1912 views)
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Yes, I have. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 18 2017, 6:39pm

Post #25 of 46 (1868 views)
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So if we excise a prologue, where should we start? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


malickfan
Gondor


Feb 18 2017, 7:10pm

Post #26 of 46 (1585 views)
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Answers: [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Not particularly (this goes for question 3 as well) I love the stories of The Silmarillion so much I don't think any movie would be able to live up to the version I imagine, so much would have to be altered, invented or rewritten to appeal to casual audiences expecting another fantasy blockbuster it would scarcely resemble or reflect the spirit of the story as Tolkien envisioned it .

We never got JRR Tolkien's final version of the story, I have no pressing desire to see Hollywood mess with it.

2. Stage Opera or animated miniseries.

4. Great Actors

5. Maybe Terrence Malick or Alfonso Cuaron








ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 18 2017, 7:53pm

Post #27 of 46 (1575 views)
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Anyone in particular for 4? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


OldestDaughter
Rohan


Feb 18 2017, 8:09pm

Post #28 of 46 (1577 views)
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Neat. [In reply to] Can't Post

 
1. Would you want to see an adaptation?
Yes!

2. If so, what medium would you want to see it in (film, TV)?
Film.

3. How much of the rest of The Silmarillion would you want to see?
"As much you can give me!"

4. Who should play the legendary couple?
I like Darkstone's idea of Sebastian Stan as Beren. Gemma Arterton as Luthien.(Her voice is somewhat similar to Liv Tyler's, so I think that would work as a relative. :) )

5. What screenwriters/directors/producers do you think would create an adaptation that would satisfy your standards?
I am still good with Peter Jackson, but I do like Christoper Nolan's films, so that would be ok too with me!

6. What other characters/actors would you want to see in the adaptation?
Can't think of too many right now, but I would like Ben Kingsly to voice Huan!Smile




"Keen, heart-piercing was her song as the song of the lark that rises from the gates of night and pours its voice among the dying stars, seeing the sun behind the walls of the world; and the song of Lúthien released the bonds of winter, and the frozen waters spoke, and flowers sprang from the cold earth where her feet had passed."


malickfan
Gondor


Feb 19 2017, 2:05pm

Post #29 of 46 (1543 views)
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No names spring to mind... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I haven't read The Silmarillion in ages and I'm not particularly keen to see it adapted, most of the characters are so thinly described or 'larger than life' (especially the literal gods the Valar) that I'm hard pressed to name many actors who would feel right for the source material.








wizzardly
Rohan


Feb 19 2017, 3:29pm

Post #30 of 46 (1542 views)
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1. Would you want to see an adaptation? [In reply to] Can't Post

No. Looking forward to the book though.

"Tolkien has become a monster, devoured by his own popularity and absorbed into the absurdity of our time." -Christopher Tolkien


squire
Half-elven


Feb 19 2017, 3:54pm

Post #31 of 46 (1547 views)
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Not sure - waiting for the book. [In reply to] Can't Post

1. Would you want to see an adaptation?
No, The Hobbit project has made me very wary of how the media world now sees Tolkien's work as license to turn out fantasy epics that follow Hollywood formulas rather than Tolkien's rather older-fashioned sense of romance and mythology.
Certainly I think we should all read the book before we jump into the next phase of this process.

2. If so, what medium would you want to see it in (film, TV)?
Film - one film, no more than 2 1/2 hours.

4. Who should play the legendary couple?
Preferably actors I'm unfamiliar with, so that I will see Beren and Luthien and not a couple of movie stars.

5. What screenwriters/directors/producers do you think would create an adaptation that would satisfy your standards?
I'm not really confident that a producer/director creative enough to approach this tale on Tolkien's terms would get through the first door of the procedures needed to get a film made in the real world of Hollywood. I would say that Sir Peter Jackson should not do it, so that its nature as a Silmarillion story rather than a Lord of the Rings story would have a fighting chance to be apparent.

6. What other characters/actors would you want to see in the adaptation?
I would be very curious about the production's approach to the unworldly and mythical aspects: Huan, Morgoth, Sauron, Thingol, Melian, etc. The heart of the story seems to me to be the collision between mortal Men (Beren and his clan) with the supernal world of the original legendarium: immortals, gods, magic of all kinds. It's very hard to play such a conflict without irony, and Tolkien's work in this regard (in contrast to his more successful LotR works, featuring hobbits as commentators from a more modern world) is utterly lacking in irony.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


= Forum has no new posts. Forum needs no new posts.


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 20 2017, 12:40am

Post #32 of 46 (1518 views)
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This is the one story I've been waiting for [In reply to] Can't Post

Though... as with most of the tales in the Sil... it's laced with much sadness and pain. My first wish would be for that to all be undone, but then the story wouldn't be right. But if we're wishing... that would be one of mine :) So please don't flame me on the unlikelihood or bizarre suggestions I make. I really do know better.... but it's fun to fantasize ;)

1. Would you want to see an adaptation?
Yes, if it is done right! It would need to be made with the same integrity and respect Jackson, Boyens, and Walsh had for LotR/Hobbit.

2. If so, what medium would you want to see it in (film, TV)?
Film. It would need to become part of the growing series of Tolkien's stories.

3. How much of the rest of The Silmarillion would you want to see?
I would like to see stories tied to the events in LotR and The Hobbit. Also stories of Galadriel and Celeborn; Elrond; Gil-galad; Earendil; Durin and the birth of the Dwarves; etc. Also, I think a story of Valinor would really give more weight to what it means to the Elves, Gandalf, and our hobbits who found a life there... and eventually to one very wise dwarf... which would also tie the stories together. Then there's the story of the Wizards; Gandalf, Saruman, and Radagast specifically. And, of course, the stories of Sauron; Minas Tirith... oh geez, I have to stop. Anything, any place, any kindred within the filmic stories is fair game, imho.

4. Who should play the legendary couple?
I really don't have anyone in mind. So many of the players in LotR/TH were so perfect in the characters they portrayed, and I hadn't heard of most of them before. I'd really love to have people who are not well known so they would not be a distraction and could fulfill their characters deeper.

5. What screenwriters/directors/producers do you think would create an adaptation that would satisfy your standards?
Those who were either directly (pardon the pun) involved with the stories/films we know, or people who can bring the familiar feel and appearance of these films. The first one to come to mind if Jackson doesn't want to do it would be Andy Serkis and... who knows... Billy and/or Katie Jackson. They have a unique perspective and, by the time these films could begin to be made, would be of an age to meet the challenge.

6. What other characters/actors would you want to see in the adaptation?

If it fit, it would be great to see a small cameo by Galadriel, Cirdan, Elrond, Thranduil, Saruman... those who could potentially be (were) around during the stories in the Sil, though I know they don't really cross paths in most cases.


This is a fascinating set of questions and I had fun exploring the possibilities. I do it all the time with The Sil and the stories in the Appendices; but I know the likelihood of these ever being done is very small.




sample

We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Feb 20 2017, 8:46pm

Post #33 of 46 (1478 views)
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"Preferably actors I'm unfamiliar with". [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the most esteemed of all silent films is Carl Theodor Dreyer's The Passion of Joan of Arc, starring Maria Falconetti in the title role. Some critics have suggested that one reason the film holds such power is that Falconetti, a stage actress, appeared in only two other, little-seen films (ten years earlier), so that she was always only Joan, especially for viewers outside of France.



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Ettelewen
Rohan

Feb 20 2017, 10:58pm

Post #34 of 46 (1471 views)
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This. [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't often go to see movies in the theater, and I don't watch a lot of TV, so it was a delicious treat for me to see The Fellowship of the Ring with so many relatively unknown actors! I could concentrate on the story rather than "oh, there's so-and-so from this role or that". I remember thinking, "So that's Boromir!, Ah yes, Gandalf!" It was lovely. I'd no recollection of watching Sean Bean in another role, and although I'd seen Ian McKellen a time or two he so owned Gandalf's character that there was no jarring impact to take me out of the story.

I would like to have that experience again.


Darkstone
Immortal


Feb 21 2017, 2:57pm

Post #35 of 46 (1426 views)
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Then pity New Zealand fans [In reply to] Can't Post

Many of the LOTR actors were well-known faces from NZ's long running five-nights-a-week soap Shortland Street (Such as Karl Urban, Martin Csokas, Craig Parker, Robyn Malcolm, John Leigh, Sarah McLeod, Mark Ferguson, and, under Uruk makeup, Jed Brody, Ben Mitchell, and Robbie Magasiva).

As for Ian McKellen, a lot of fans strenuously objected to his casting because "He IS Magneto!"

Perhaps strangest of all was when Mark Ordesky's put together a quick demo tape of Mortensen’s roles in “Psycho” (1998), "The Prophecy” (1995), and “Texas Chainsaw Massacre III” (1990) to pitch Viggo for Aragorn. It shouldn't surprise anyone that slashmeister PJ loved it and immediately offered Mortensen the role.

Anyway, as Liv said to Steven Tyler of Aerosmith when he was so amazed about her transformation into Arwen, "That's what acting's all about, Daddy!"

******************************************
“Begone, foul dwimmerlaik, lord of carrion! Leave the dead in peace!"
"Come not between the Nazgul and his prey! Or he will not slay thee in thy turn. He will bear thee away to the houses of lamentation, beyond all darkness, where thy flesh shall be devoured, and thy shrivelled mind be left naked to the Lidless Eye."
"Do what you will; but I will hinder it, if I may."
"Hinder me? Thou fool. No living man may hinder me!"
"But no living man am I! I am Eowyn, daughter of Theodwyn!”
"Er, really? My mother's name was Theodwyn, too!"
"No way!"
"Way!"
"Wow! Let's stop fighting and be best friends!"
"Cool!!"

-Zack Snyder's The Return of the King


Starling
Half-elven


Feb 21 2017, 5:21pm

Post #36 of 46 (1418 views)
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So true, [In reply to] Can't Post

especially when watching the theatrical release of The Two Towers. I vividly remember the sniggers when some of the well known Kiwi actors appeared, especially John Leigh ("There's Lionel - he didn't die after all!)
And Craig Parker, whose name I have trouble remembering. I still call him 'Guy Warner'. I still can't get over seeing him in his lovely blonde wig.

I missed a lot of the dialogue due to the laughter in the theatre.




Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 21 2017, 5:37pm

Post #37 of 46 (1418 views)
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Exactly. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
especially John Leigh ("There's Lionel - he didn't die after all!)


That was my exact thought. Thankfully, that's the only time I was ripped right out of the magic of the films.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


noWizardme
Valinor


Feb 22 2017, 10:59am

Post #38 of 46 (1390 views)
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The "Ohh Look, there's X" problem [In reply to] Can't Post

The "Ohh Look, there's X" problem (in which you distactingly recognise an actor as a character they played in another show) seems to apply to some actors more than others (at least, that's how it seems to me). For example Ian Holm seems to move between roles well - seeing him as Bilbo I didn't think "Oh look there's ...

=>Ash, from Ridley Scott's Alien, or
=>Sam Mussabini the coach from Chariots of Fire, or
=>Napoleon (variously from the 1972 television series Napoleon and Love; or Terry Gilliam's Time Bandits from 1981; or in 2001 film about Napoleon in exile, The Emperor's New Clothes).

I wonder why that is? To do with an actor's ability to make each character different, perhaps; or to do with a tendency to re-cast actors in roles like ones they have already done? It can't all be just re-casting though: I did find it odd that Eomer and Syler were having a chat on the bridge of the rebooted Enterprise, even though those actors were now acting differently as Spock and McCoy...

~~~~~~
Where's that old read-through discussion?
A wonderful list of links to previous chapters in the 2014-2016 LOTR read-through (and to previous read-throughs) is curated by our very own 'squire' here http://users.bestweb.net/...-SixthDiscussion.htm

(This post was edited by noWizardme on Feb 22 2017, 11:01am)


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 22 2017, 11:24am

Post #39 of 46 (1387 views)
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To be honest, it doesn't bother me. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 22 2017, 6:12pm

Post #40 of 46 (1378 views)
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"Ooooh look there's Tom Cruise, [In reply to] Can't Post

playing Tom Cruise. Again."

Evil

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Feb 24 2017, 4:10am

Post #41 of 46 (1343 views)
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addendum to my #5 [In reply to] Can't Post

5. What screenwriters/directors/producers do you think would create an adaptation that would satisfy your standards?
Those who were either directly (pardon the pun) involved with the stories/films we know, or people who can bring the familiar feel and appearance of these films. The first one to come to mind if Jackson doesn't want to do it would be Andy Serkis


There's this quote from an article in Variety in 2014... which gives me hope!!! :D


Quote

“If I had to start tomorrow, I would say no, because I definitely would appreciate a break to clear my head and get my little New Zealand stories done, which is where my passion and my heart is heading now,” Jackson told Variety. “But ask me in two or three years, and I’d probably say yes. It would be hard to see another filmmaker go into this world, because I certainly have an emotional ownership of it.”





sample

We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


ange1e4e5
Rohan

Feb 28 2017, 11:33pm

Post #42 of 46 (1273 views)
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Anyone else who isn't bothered by familiar actors? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.


squire
Half-elven


Mar 1 2017, 12:08am

Post #43 of 46 (1265 views)
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"I'm not an actor, I'm a movie star!" [In reply to] Can't Post

From what I can tell, a movie star owns a persona that fans fall in love with, and want to see again and again. A 'character actor' loses himself or herself in the role, and seems almost chameleon-like in the ability to surprise audiences with a new appearance or new personality.

Obviously there is quite a lot of overlap between these approaches to acting in films: a movie star is certainly an expert actor, only it's just at playing himself; and a well-known character actor always risks becomes a star in her own right as audiences increasingly recognize her underneath the various roles, make-up, and accents.

I have thought that Tolkien's characters, being more archetypal and romantic than fully-rounded and idiosyncratic, would be a real trap for any well-known film actor who swore he or she would really 'become' that Elf or hero or wizard or whatever. As for a high-end well-known movie star (like Peter O'Toole in 'My Favorite Year', quoted in my header), he would of course play himself no matter who it was he was supposed to be, Turin or Thingol or Morgoth or Sador - that's why he was cast, and that's what his audience expects, and that's why he gets paid the big bucks, as he knows perfectly well.



squire online:
RR Discussions: The Valaquenta, A Shortcut to Mushrooms, and Of Herbs and Stewed Rabbit
Lights! Action! Discuss on the Movie board!: 'A Journey in the Dark'. and 'Designing The Two Towers'.
Archive: All the TORn Reading Room Book Discussions (including the 1st BotR Discussion!) and Footerama: "Tolkien would have LOVED it!"
Dr. Squire introduces the J.R.R. Tolkien Encyclopedia: A Reader's Diary


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grammaboodawg
Immortal


Mar 1 2017, 12:38pm

Post #44 of 46 (1251 views)
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I like being able to count on familiar [In reply to] Can't Post

Most of John Wayne's movies have him as a familiar character whether it's a war movie, western, detective or a boxer living in Ireland. I also enjoy that he was surrounded by familiar faces fulfilling supporting roles (Ward Bond, Maureen O'Hara, Harry Carry jr, etc.). I really enjoy seeing characters I love changing-up the story (which is often familiar as well).

As Ataahua said, Tom Cruise is also a very consistent character actor.

One of the people I am always amazed with in his diversity is Peter Stormare. Who? You've seen him everywhere and he always delivers, imho.
He's from Sweden, but is known for playing many nationalities flawlessly. My favourites he played was in Armageddon and Constantine :D


Armageddon as the Russian Cosmonaut


Minority Report as the psyco doctor


Chocolat as an abusive husband


Jurassic Park: The Lost World as the big jerk lead-hand to the Hunter


Constantine as satan


The Big Lewbowski as one of the Nihilists


Even on the TV series The Blacklist in a recurring role as Berlin Kirchoff




sample

We have been there and back again.


TIME Google Calendar


6th draft of TH:AUJ Geeky Observations List - November 28, 2013
4th draft of TH:DOS Geeky Observations List - May 15, 2014

5th draft of TH:BotFA Geeky Observations List - January 30, 2015


TORn's Geeky Observations Lists for LotR and The Hobbit


cats16
Valinor


Mar 2 2017, 6:34am

Post #45 of 46 (1220 views)
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Also gotta love... [In reply to] Can't Post

That nasty little role of his in Fargo. ShockedWink

Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!




ange1e4e5
Rohan

Mar 10 2017, 2:50pm

Post #46 of 46 (1117 views)
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"You're a smooth smoothie, you know?" [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I always follow my job through.

 
 

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