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JRandomRohirrim
Rohan
Apr 25 2008, 2:13pm
Post #1 of 28
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Wow - An animatronic Smaug??
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Here's an interesting point from the TORN interview with GDT: "The only thing I will be pushing for more in these films that the other three are full animatronics and animatronic creatures enhanced with CGI, as opposed to CGI creatures themselves. We really want to take the state-of-the-art animatronics and take a leap ten years into the future with the technology we will develop for the creatures in the movie. We have every intention to do for animatronics and special effects what the other films did for virtual reality." Could you see an animatronic Smaug for the cave scenes?? I can! Might be a big much to expect a animatronic, flying Smaug, but what the heck!
The Road News and Rumors http://www.theroadrumors.com
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Windfola
The Shire
Apr 25 2008, 2:50pm
Post #2 of 28
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this is the right route, I have to see James Cameron's Avatar first. Maybe they won't need animatronics for creature effects at all after this film is made. I have a feeling CGI will become ultra believable without the need of animatronics to enhance it. If not, then this is they way to go.
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Nazguy
Bree
Apr 25 2008, 5:07pm
Post #3 of 28
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Am I the only one to wince just a little when hearing the word 'animatronic'? I suppose I can see the temptation to put something 'real' onto the set. One of the good things about the old Star Wars films is that you know the spaceships are real physical objects and not animated pictures. My aversion to animatronics is probably based on dodgy films from the 1980s. Imagine what they'd be able to do nowadays, what with the advances in technology.
Departed from the old TORN a few years ago... Well, I'm back. And still trying to get used to the new look :)
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SureCavanaugh
The Shire
Apr 25 2008, 5:14pm
Post #4 of 28
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Even back in 1993 the animatronic dinos looked good.... imagine them with modern CGI.
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KateTheHobbit
Bree
Apr 25 2008, 5:22pm
Post #5 of 28
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I don't know how to feel about this. Like someone before me said, I just kinda wince when I hear "animatronic". So many animatronics look so... cheesy. I think I'd feel much better if Smaug was in the very capable realm of CGI. HOWEVER, as someone else said, look at the animatronics in Jurassic Park. I just watched that again a few nights ago, and was thinking about how stunning the T-Rex and Raptors looked. Whereas the dinosaurs in JP3 looked pretty terrible, and they were all (or mostly, I think) CGI. So I have no idea what to think or feel. I think I'd feel much better if Smaug was being done CGI. But then again, there really have been some truly awesome animatronics. AH, curse my conflicting thoughts!
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JRandomRohirrim
Rohan
Apr 25 2008, 5:47pm
Post #6 of 28
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Um, I'm about 98% sure that Jurassic Park was all CGI
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I remember Spielberg saying how wonderful he thought it went. Bad CGI can be found as recently Gladiator. Oh those tigers!
The Road News and Rumors http://www.theroadrumors.com
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SureCavanaugh
The Shire
Apr 25 2008, 5:51pm
Post #7 of 28
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Actually, the original was most animatronics
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Spielberg hired Stan Winston to create the animatronic dinosaurs whose T-rex animatronic stood 20 feet (6.1 m), weighed 13,000 pounds, and was 40 feet (12 m) long. Jack Horner called it "the closest I've ever been to a live dinosaur". Alex Billington declared it as a film that was ahead of its time, saying that on another level, "Even using the animatronics system that they did, this was a far step ahead of anything at the time. Then the stories surrounding how horrifically real the dinosaurs were fueled its popularity even more. And the best part is that they look better in this movie than any more recent CGI creations."
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KateTheHobbit
Bree
Apr 25 2008, 5:51pm
Post #8 of 28
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I remember Spielberg saying how wonderful he thought it went. Bad CGI can be found as recently Gladiator. Oh those tigers! I know that they used extensive CGI for the day, but I'm pretty sure there were still quite a few animatronics. There were Raptor animatronics for the kitchen scene, and the triceratops (sp?) that I know of for sure. And as SureCavanaugh said, there was a full scale T-rex animatronic (which I always thought was awesome. lol). But you are right; it was one of the first movies to use GOOD CGI, in my opinion.
(This post was edited by KateTheHobbit on Apr 25 2008, 5:52pm)
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One Ringer
Tol Eressea
Apr 25 2008, 7:18pm
Post #9 of 28
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Animatronics enhanced with CGI
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They'll use the animatronics in the way they use Andy with Gollum. They'll shoot the animatronics, and then enhance it with computers to make it look nice and realistic. That's my guess anyways. I'm not worried, if anything, I'm actually happy!
Ash nazg durbatulűk, Ash nazg gimbatul, Ash nazg thrakatulűk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul. I'm hosting THE URUK-HAI in The Reading Room! Swing by and join in!
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Apr 25 2008, 7:20pm
Post #10 of 28
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Peter rocked the world with the innovations
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created for LotR... and that was nearly 10 years ago. Can you even imagine what GdT and he can accomplish!? This is gonna be SWEET!
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming! "Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..." TORn's Observations Lists
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Ecthel
The Shire
Apr 25 2008, 7:32pm
Post #11 of 28
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Does anyone remember the Alien queen in Alien 2? That was animatronics and it was awesome. Or if anyone watched Farscape, there was plenty of animatronic and puppet characters that were believable. At the end of the day, CGI will always be CGI, it will always looked slightly off. Gollum was decent in some scenes, and horrible in others. The cave troll in Fellowship was horribly CGI. Anytime you can have some physcial, it will improve the quality of the realism. Good for Del Toro
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Nazgurl
Registered User
Apr 25 2008, 9:51pm
Post #13 of 28
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Given the money they'll spend on this....
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Initially I was a little nervous when I read the bit about animatronics, but with all of the money they're going to spend on these films, and with Peter at the helm, I've no doubt that they will do Smaug proud. (not to mention it will be good practice for Temeraire, when/if Peter ever gets that project off the ground!) Man - it's been so long since I've been here my old account didn't work and I had to create a new one! Looking foward to going down this road again with the old and the new-timers!
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vtboyarc
Lorien
Apr 25 2008, 10:15pm
Post #14 of 28
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I was disappointed when I read that about using more animatronics. I mean, sure their cool and fun to work with, but their also REALLY easy to tell that its fake. If digital effects can make things look as real as they do, why not stay with that?
Theres some good in this world, Mr. Frodo, and its worth fighting for.
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stormcrow20
Gondor
Apr 26 2008, 12:41am
Post #15 of 28
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I'm not so sure animatronics is the right way to go for The Hobbit. First, I haven't seen Pan's Labyrinth yet, and it's been a while since I've seen Hellboy, so I can't comment on those films. When it comes to animatronics, somehow my brain picks out patterns of movements from animatronics and puppets, even when well done, and totally removes me from the film. Yoda in Episode I, for instance, is much more distracting to me than CGI Yoda in Episodes II and III. Didn't they use both animatronics and CGI for Treebeard? The close-ups are good, but a few wide shots of him just looked way too mechanical. Compare him with the Balrog and Oliphaunts. Which has more convincing, realistic movements? Whatever they used for the Balrog, Oliphaunts, etc. is what should be used in The Hobbit, in my opinion. Just think how those techniques have improved in the more than ten years that will have passed between these productions. Sorry to repeat myself from another post, but that's how I feel about it.
~~~~~~ Círdan saw further and deeper than any other in Middle-earth, and he welcomed Mithrandir at the Grey Havens, knowing whence he came and whither he would return. 'Take this ring, master,' he said, 'for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill.'
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stormcrow20
Gondor
Apr 26 2008, 12:48am
Post #16 of 28
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Yes, I watched Aliens a couple weeks ago, and while the close-ups of the Alien Queen were great, and very scary, its movements were very mechanical and distracting to me in the wide shots. I've also seen a few episodes of Farscape, and I must say, I had to stretch my imagination a bit too far to believe the animatronic/puppet characters. At the end of the day, CGI will always be CGI, it will always looked slightly off. Gollum was decent in some scenes, and horrible in others. The cave troll in Fellowship was horribly CGI. Anytime you can have some physcial, it will improve the quality of the realism. In regards to that statement, my opinion is the exact oppsite of yours!
~~~~~~ Círdan saw further and deeper than any other in Middle-earth, and he welcomed Mithrandir at the Grey Havens, knowing whence he came and whither he would return. 'Take this ring, master,' he said, 'for your labours will be heavy; but it will support you in the weariness you have taken upon yourself. For this is the Ring of Fire, and with it you may rekindle hearts in a world that grows chill.'
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Apr 26 2008, 5:38am
Post #17 of 28
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The Alien queen was masterfully done,
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helped in no small part by the sound effects and music.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..." Dwarves: "Pretty rings..." Men: "Pretty rings..." Sauron: "Mine's better." "Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak. Ataahua's stories
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Nazguy
Bree
Apr 26 2008, 9:12am
Post #18 of 28
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I thought it looked pretty awesome!
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JRandomRohirrim
Rohan
Apr 26 2008, 3:04pm
Post #19 of 28
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My husband knows a lot more about Jurassic Park than I do. He said animatronics were used for close-up shots (raptors inside the building and the like) and CGI was used for "crowd scenes." So JP used a combination of effects to create the dinos, and I expect del Toro will use a combination as well.
The Road News and Rumors http://www.theroadrumors.com
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Sunflower
Valinor
Apr 27 2008, 3:03am
Post #20 of 28
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The raptors in the kitchen were animatronic? I didn't know that...I was wondering how they got to look so real. But then, I didn't buy the JP DVD b/c my favorite feature on a DVD is director's commentary and Spielberg does not do commenataries. (sad, but I can see why.)
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Sunflower
Valinor
Apr 27 2008, 3:06am
Post #21 of 28
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What do you think of the court case going on with Jo Rowling right now? (Not to get too OT here) I remember how surprised to learn that that place on the cover was just....The GREAT HALL!
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Elenedhel
Rivendell
Apr 27 2008, 3:59am
Post #22 of 28
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hmmm... I had mixed feelings when i heard that Guillermo Del Toro was contemplating animatronics for The Hobbit. Some of the old films with animatronics are so cheesy. But then again, the Treebeard in LotR was fantastic. I think under the supervision of Weta it could work.
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palantiriel
The Shire
Apr 27 2008, 1:02pm
Post #23 of 28
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Yeah, I was going to metion Treebeard too. Using CGI to enhance animatronics could be great. The LOTR films were so revolutionary technology-wise that I have complete faith in whatever The Hobbit will do too. When I first hEard that LOTR would use plenty of CGI I had a nightmare that it would be a live action/animation mix, like Mary Poppins, with cartoon Gollum scampering about next to the real actors!
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Unspoken_Request
Bree
Apr 27 2008, 2:13pm
Post #24 of 28
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Imho Smaug has to be 10 times bigger than the TRex
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Or 10 times bigger than the Balrog. At the very least. He has to be gigantic. That is how I imagine Smaug. In my mind, in terms of size, a large mountain is to Smaug, what a little house is to a human. Remember dwarrowdelf in Moria? He's got to "fill" most of this huge hall all by himself I don't see how this is possible with animatronics. The head and facial expressions maybe, but not the rest.
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Merenwen
The Shire
Apr 27 2008, 2:27pm
Post #25 of 28
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The Great Hall would probably be computer generated anyway so it probably wouldn't be hard to make a 3 metre high animatronic Smaug look huge in it. I don't really have an opinion on whether it would be better to just use a CGI dragon or a mix of that and animatronics. I guess, it would make sense to have a "real" dragon there when it's mainly staying in one place and Bilbo is talking to it.
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Elenedhel
Rivendell
Apr 27 2008, 4:40pm
Post #26 of 28
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Oh that would have been awful!! But now every other fantasy movie that you see has motion-capture creatures in it, and it's all thanks to LotR!
"O Elbereth! Gilthoniel! We still remember, we who dwell In this far land beneath the trees, Thy starlight on the Western Seas."
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Unspoken_Request
Bree
Apr 27 2008, 4:58pm
Post #27 of 28
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Ok, maybe animatronics, as long as Smaug is really HUGE
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I don't know enough about SFX to know if it's possible. If it is possible to have a gigantic Smaug done with animatronics, I have no trouble with this. Men have to be like mice or insects next to him.
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Thorin Firehelm
Registered User
Apr 27 2008, 8:53pm
Post #28 of 28
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For me alot is riding on Bilbo right now. I am hoping, praying and worshipping to every God under the sun that they get Ian Holm back. However, back on topic.The animatronic/CGI debate has been going on since fantasy as a genre really kicked off in movies. I for one would love a mix. Having an animatronic Smaug on the set would be awesome. One of the things which makes a talking dragon work is that he could potentially destroy and entire town just because he gets bored on sunday afternoon. What makes the dialogue between Bilbo and Smaug work is that this small hobbit manages to equal Smaug with words and not finish up on the barbeque despite the fact that Smaug could eat him and still have room for afters. To have an actual animatronic on set will ehance the performances ten fold. Then, if necessary, CGI can clean it up a tad.
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