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Thranderz
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:03pm
Post #4 of 348
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I have no words.....
I simply walked into Mordor.
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Joe20
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:03pm
Post #5 of 348
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CGI just keeps getting worse and worse.
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Guert
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 6:04pm
Post #6 of 348
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UNBELIEVABLE.
I CAN'T WAIT.
EVERYTHING IN THIS TRAILER IS PERFECT.
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Smaug Report
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:06pm
Post #7 of 348
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I was moved to tears. That was INCREDIBLE. Speechless.
I will show you revenge...
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ecthelionsbeard
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:07pm
Post #8 of 348
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Nothing in this trailer looks any worse than...
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anything we saw in the Return of the King.
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Joe20
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:07pm
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tsmith675
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:09pm
Post #11 of 348
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Just wow.
Our destiny lies above us.
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davidjUK
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:09pm
Post #12 of 348
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Just wow!! I literally cannot wait!!!
The Nine, Saruman, Sauron, Mount Gundabad, Thranduil and his elk, Galadriel, I can't express how much I want to see this movie.
HURRY UP December 12th!!!!
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Drakblod
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 6:09pm
Post #13 of 348
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Or maybe the abundance of CGI creatures, but this trailer doesn't do much for me.
like butter scraped over too much bread.
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There&ThereAgain
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:10pm
Post #14 of 348
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So much emotion and pathos and character. I think we are in for a real treat this December.
ps. Do Legolas and Tauriel go to Mt. Gundabad?
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:11pm
Post #15 of 348
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I hate to be a downer but I also see too much CGI for my liking. I hold out judgement until the final film.
What I did like is that the tone of this seems more serious and darker. I didn't see any over the top action. The Nazgul! They look pretty cool from that one shot. Hopefully they look great in the film.
And does anyone notice that Martin seems to put the ring on his middle finger a lot? Lol, it reminds me of the extras where he kept giving the camera the finger.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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Joe20
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:11pm
Post #16 of 348
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elves that look like they've just been been copy and pasted, blatant green screens and set extensions.
Now its 5:00AM so I think i'll be going back to sleep.
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cats16
Half-elven
Nov 6 2014, 6:11pm
Post #18 of 348
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Tears. Smiles. More tears. Wow.
Still don't have the words, after two viewings.
Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 6:12pm
Post #19 of 348
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Perhaps not, but there's a lot more of it
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An over abundance, makes it look like those terrible Robert Zemeckis movies *shudder*
I personally find the environments most distracting. Not only do CG environments look incredibly fake, but something about their aesthetic just feels really claustrophobic. Even if the actor is green-screened onto a CGI mountain-top where 90% of the screen is sky and landscape, it still just feels enclosed somehow. Like a set. I don't know why, I guess it's something to do with lighting, but it just does.  
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There&ThereAgain
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:12pm
Post #20 of 348
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And you're still surprised by how CGI in these films? 
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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tsmith675
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:13pm
Post #21 of 348
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Our destiny lies above us.
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xxxyyy
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:13pm
Post #22 of 348
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I sensed no chessiness there, and that's good.
The first trailer was... meh...
My hope is a bit rekindled.
(This post was edited by xxxyyy on Nov 6 2014, 6:15pm)
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haarp
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 6:14pm
Post #23 of 348
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this does NOT beat unexpected journey trailer
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DeadRabbits
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:15pm
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That pot bellied troll/orc at 1:36... who/what is he?
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Is he appearing again at 1:57? (PJ's cameo, maybe?)
Epic trailer btw!
Now now Bill, you swore this was a battle between warriors, not a bunch of miss nancies, so warriors is what I brought
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adt100
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:15pm
Post #25 of 348
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Stunning, and not just all out 'action' focussed. Great character moments, dialogue, emotion, music. LOVED IT!
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WhiskFishercat
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:15pm
Post #26 of 348
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Well now we know how Tauriel dies, thanks spoilerific trailer! Sweet trailer though, cant wait!
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Thranduiliel
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:16pm
Post #27 of 348
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Thranduil continues to appear as the villain
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As if the Elvenking didn't have enough bad press in DoS - now he looks like he's just come to start a war to pick up his pretty necklace, and appears to be clashing swords with Tauriel? I have a suspicion Legolas will be the one to educate him...not happy.
Some good parts, but I'm feeling less enthused than ever.
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Arannir
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 6:16pm
Post #28 of 348
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She is alive long enough to hold dead Kili in her arms.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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adt100
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:17pm
Post #29 of 348
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Some people will complain at ANYTHING. WETA remain the best SFX house in the business.
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Thranderz
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:17pm
Post #30 of 348
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Dwalin's line. That hits so hard.
I simply walked into Mordor.
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AshNazg
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:17pm
Post #31 of 348
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Why aren't more people complaining about CG??
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Half of the trailer looked like unfinished pre-viz! I don't mind the use of CGI in these films, but this one looks really, really bad. Hope it looks better in the film.
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xxxyyy
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:17pm
Post #32 of 348
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Well... music... imagine that with Shore's MUSIC.//
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:17pm
Post #33 of 348
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How about that!
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Olorin2607
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:17pm
Post #34 of 348
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Go sleeping. So we don't get this godawful negativity right away..again..
As for the trailer: AWESOME 
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ecthelionsbeard
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:18pm
Post #35 of 348
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Irony 101. At no point in this entire trailer did I detect any bad cgi. The only reason I know it's cgi is because there's no way such gradios shots can be achieved practically. This was a top notch trailer… aside from the generic music which still fit the mood. Please..
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Smaug Report
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:18pm
Post #36 of 348
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I will show you revenge...
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:18pm
Post #37 of 348
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I also find the CGI orcs to be really distracting. In LOTR CGI was really only used for orcs with wide shots where there were like hundred of them and they were in the background. I honestly can't stand seeing CGI orcs in closeup crawling over ruins in battle.
And I also agree about the CGI landscapes. While I think the landscape work they have done with the CGI looks very realistic (probably the most realistic CGI work I've seen) there's something about it that creates that artificial feeling. I think a lot of it has to do with that overabundance of it. Whereas before you would have some CGI background with a miniature and a set with an actor, now it's mostly just a the set with the actor and everything else is CGI. miniatures gave a lot of realistic weight that CGI just can't quite reach yet.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
(This post was edited by redgiraffe on Nov 6 2014, 6:21pm)
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:18pm
Post #38 of 348
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you mean kind of like in the book?
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Thranderz
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:18pm
Post #39 of 348
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I remember having problems with the final DoS trailer but then it turned out fantastic (apart from Mirkwood entrance obviously ).
I simply walked into Mordor.
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Silranhir
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:18pm
Post #40 of 348
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Probably the worst trailer out of all six movies. And I don't think this film will be the big hope to rescue the series everyone is hoping it will be.
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Nov 6 2014, 6:19pm
Post #41 of 348
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I've watched the trailer twice now and I can't even process everything in it! 
I like it...it's just that it's so...epic...I can't...I can't even...
Just...just give me a minute to process...
"Home is behind the world ahead
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadow to the edge of night
Until the stars are all alight.
Mist and shadow
Cloud and shade
All shall fade
All shall fade"
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Drakblod
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 6:20pm
Post #42 of 348
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For some reason alot of people here are kinda sheepish and will praise ANYTHING Hobbit-related and violently defend anyone disagreeing
like butter scraped over too much bread.
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:20pm
Post #43 of 348
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most of us need anything to 'rescue the series'...it's been a good series with many flaws (like LOTR) and this will be an appropriate, epic, flawed and emotional ending to it.
Anyone looking for negativity will be sure to find it.
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Loresilme
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 6:21pm
Post #44 of 348
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In a good way, I mean? Wow. That hit me a lot harder than I thought it would. I thought that was incredible. And different than what I expected! Intriguing too. Emotions, questions, .... just, wow! I need to come back and post again when I recover  !
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Danielos
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:21pm
Post #45 of 348
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Pause on the shot of the elven army. They really do look like CGI elves that have been copy-pasted!
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:21pm
Post #46 of 348
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to the ones who are trollish and will say anything negative any chance they get.
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Carne
Tol Eressea
Nov 6 2014, 6:22pm
Post #47 of 348
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It's becasue they'll be fighting the dwarves
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Has to do with scale. Look at the Dol Guldur orcs, they're practical because they'll be fighting the elves. The orcs fighting the dwarves are CG because of scale issues. You can't easily find fifty stunt performers who are all over 7ft tall.
(This post was edited by Carne on Nov 6 2014, 6:22pm)
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Arannir
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 6:22pm
Post #48 of 348
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I think what many people criticize about CGI...
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... is mainly the style. Bad CGI would be something rather objective - the HD style is something deliberate. Dividing, maybe, but used deliberatly.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Nov 6 2014, 6:22pm
Post #49 of 348
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"Home is behind the world ahead
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadow to the edge of night
Until the stars are all alight.
Mist and shadow
Cloud and shade
All shall fade
All shall fade"
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Remus
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:22pm
Post #50 of 348
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Where are the wallpapers? Last year we got wallpapers along with the trailer............
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tsmith675
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:22pm
Post #51 of 348
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Because of... you know... opinions and stuff?
Our destiny lies above us.
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Smaug Report
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:23pm
Post #52 of 348
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By your statement, you must be an authority, with vast experience to know so much about the current state of pre-viz in the industry to accurately judge fx shots in a way that is more than simply an uninformed opinion.
I have never seen pre-viz look this good. If you want to see ACTUAL pre-viz, watch the Into the Fire video on the EE, and they show ACTUAL pre-viz CG in it, so you can then compare and see your statement is not supported by any facts.
I will show you revenge...
(This post was edited by Smaug Report on Nov 6 2014, 6:28pm)
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There&ThereAgain
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:23pm
Post #53 of 348
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Or portrayed as having antagonistic qualities to our heroes. He is shown to be a coward and selfish and vain. Obviously he's more complex, but his role within the narrative (at least in film 2) is as a villian.
I'm sure BOTFA will show his complexity, but it's a two minute trailer. You can't really judge based on that. Just you wait! 
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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Loresilme
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 6:23pm
Post #55 of 348
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  *overload* lol!!
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Angharad73
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:23pm
Post #56 of 348
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...to express my feelings on this. Parts of the trailer are excellent and get me all excited for the movie, while other parts are just...
Love Thorin, as always. And do we see Bilbo climbing down the wall there to deliver the Arkenstone into 'enemy hands'? Loved that bit. Oh, and Dwalin! Love Dwalin!
Thranduil -love the look, but he seems a bit too riled up there. I can't see him say "Long will I tarry..." if he's worked up like that. And that would be a shame.
And then there's that whole Kili/Tauriel thing, which is a big disappointment to me.
So, overall it's pretty much 50/50 for me.
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Olorin2607
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:23pm
Post #57 of 348
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...that right away you go for the negative bits as if nothing else was any good. And you make it seem as if the whole movie is "bad" because of some unfinished CGI.
There ARE flaws of course.. but like 1 minute after watching the trailer is not really the right time to focus on them.
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:24pm
Post #58 of 348
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Well now we know how Tauriel dies, thanks spoilerific trailer! Sweet trailer though, cant wait!
Am I the only one who thinks it looked like Thranduil cuts her throat with his sword? LOL Watch closely again.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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Silranhir
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:26pm
Post #59 of 348
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most of us need anything to 'rescue the series'...it's been a good series with many flaws (like LOTR) and this will be an appropriate, epic, flawed and emotional ending to it.
Anyone looking for negativity will be sure to find it.
The hardcore element never will. The general public who are the majority will though. This trilogy gets no where near Lord of the Rings and in parts is a bit of a disaster.
The biggest downside is the overuse of CGI and fake environments which take away from what LOTR gave us. A big part of Middle Earth are the locations which in LOTR were real. Losing them for the hobbit has took away from the emotion of the films.
(This post was edited by Silranhir on Nov 6 2014, 6:27pm)
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adt100
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:26pm
Post #60 of 348
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I've just watched it 3 times, HD, full screen on my 27" iMac. I'm not sure about the 'panzer tank' trolls, but other than that it looks spectacular! I know 'everyone has an opinion', but quite frankly if you think it was bad then you must have different eyes to me! The CGI has throughout the films got bigger and better, sure there are odd glitches and imperfections, but there were FAR MORE than in the LOTR films. I just watched the back to back EE's recently and whilst Gollum and other effects stand up, the CGI is certainly not as good. Yet, this is by WETA, the same people, only with more experience, more money, more talent. The CGI IS better, markedly so, it is merely certain people that remain annoyed by it's use.
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Smaug Report
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:27pm
Post #61 of 348
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It's painfully obvious by the tone and demeanor of the negative posts here, that not only do they not represent a constructive, fair critique of anything, but that people are enjoying being nasty. You can smell the arrogance a mile away.
I don't smell sheep, but I sure do smell Trolls.
What I do see is people not being smug enough to think that they can simplify a work of cinema that is so complex like this, down to a simple "meh", which is the go-to "look how cool I am, I'm so cool in fact, I only write in single, disdainful sentences without periods, or in single words, to show people how little I care, oh, wait I am taking the time to post something nasty and unfair, it looks like I do have an agenda...oopsie."
I also see people allowing themselves to get lost in a beautiful, epic fantasy world and trying to enjoy something for what it is, instead of what they think it should be, or how they could make it better, keep in mind if that were true, the people saying they could do better, IF they could ACTUALLY do better, wouldn't have time to moan on an internet message board, because they would be too busy in a movie career using their obviously superior talents.
I will show you revenge...
(This post was edited by Smaug Report on Nov 6 2014, 6:32pm)
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AshNazg
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:27pm
Post #63 of 348
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Or you could just pause it at 0:32 and agree that it's terrible
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Unless they were going for the mannequin elf clones look?
Obviously "pre-viz" is an intentional exaggeration.
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Macfeast
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:27pm
Post #64 of 348
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I won't say that this is my favorite trailer... but it is definitely up there among them. So much goodness, so much to love.
My only complaint? That people aren't allowed to dislike it without being compared to trolls.
(This post was edited by Macfeast on Nov 6 2014, 6:28pm)
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Arannir
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 6:28pm
Post #66 of 348
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The way people act in this thread is sad.
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Both sides.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
(This post was edited by Arannir on Nov 6 2014, 6:29pm)
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Loresilme
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 6:29pm
Post #67 of 348
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in my case, I connected much more with, and was much more affected by, the much more emotional tone of this trailer. I found there was so much going on in terms of character in this trailer that for me, the CGI was secondary. Very secondary.
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:29pm
Post #68 of 348
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is that people keep complaining about 'bad CG' which clearly illustrates their lack of knowledge/experience on the subject because 98% of the CG is REALLY GOOD...and what they are seeing that is 'bad' to them is the digital look of the film mixed with a lot of CG plus highly compressed internet versions of the file.
It's not that all of the CG is bad, there are a lot of other factors involved.
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There&ThereAgain
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:31pm
Post #70 of 348
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The character beats and emotion is so strong in this trailer, that a little bad cgi (that is clearly not finished but due to the pressure of marketing/advertising they have to release it anyway) does not ruin it for me in the slightest. 
December 17th can't come soon enough!
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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adt100
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:31pm
Post #71 of 348
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Because of course we didn't have that in FOTR, TTT or ROTK?
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Difference being, back then trailers came out in 640p and not full HD that you can view on 27" + screens!
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Nov 6 2014, 6:32pm
Post #72 of 348
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Never mind the good/bad CGI arguments, I just can't believe we have yet another recycled line from the first trilogy - Legolas on the bats: "bred for a single purpose....war"
plus the Kili/Tauriel thing - yuck!
But the rest looks...interesting!
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort
(This post was edited by Eleniel on Nov 6 2014, 6:33pm)
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AshNazg
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:32pm
Post #73 of 348
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Also when they fire, they're all apparently left-handed! //
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tsmith675
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:32pm
Post #74 of 348
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does not = bad trailer.
I don't get people. This trailer is really fantastic. From a storytelling aspect, not an action aspect, this trailer is flawless. And the action part of it is still really great as well. Yes, some of the CGI needs cleaned up, and I'm sure it will be until the moment the film hits theaters. But seriously, find something better to do than complain about a few brief seconds of not-so-great CGI in an otherwise flawless trailer.
Our destiny lies above us.
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Rosie-with-the-ribbons
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 6 2014, 6:33pm
Post #75 of 348
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amongst each other about opinions.
If somebody likes it or not, that is up to them.
Nobody has the one opinion.
This isn't just for you, Smaug Report, but also the others in this thread.
If you don't like the opinion of somebody, just ignore it.
Thanks!
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dormouse
Half-elven
Nov 6 2014, 6:33pm
Post #76 of 348
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Thought I had better stop watching before I wear it out, but that is amazing. Intense - and focused so much on character.
Breathtaking - far too much to take in at once (or three or six times or....)
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greenbalrog
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:33pm
Post #77 of 348
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Saruman, White Council, Elrond, Sauron, Galadriel, the 9, Gandalf
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Oh I know I'm so gonna love this!
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Arannir
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 6:33pm
Post #78 of 348
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"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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Cirashala
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 6:33pm
Post #79 of 348
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like he knocked her bow out of her hand, actually.
I had to watch it about eight times to pause right at that moment (as if I needed an excuse to watch it lol ) but there's a blurred recurve bow tip in one of the frames. I'm an archer (who also has a recurve bow) and I know that Tauriel has one too, so that's how I could tell what the blurred object is in her hand.
He's DEFINITELY pissed at her, that's for sure! Now it remains to be seen whether he's pissed because she left Mirkwood, or because of that awful shot of her and Kili exchanging his runestone
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tsmith675
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:34pm
Post #80 of 348
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What about that people can't *like* it...
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without being called sheeps...
Our destiny lies above us.
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adt100
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:34pm
Post #81 of 348
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No, because it genuinely is first rate and anyone who says it's "atrocious" is frankly idiotic.//
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Olorin2607
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:35pm
Post #82 of 348
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Really people... just try to see the love and heart this trailer evokes... the line deliverys esp. of Thorin and Dwalin make me cry...
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Nov 6 2014, 6:35pm
Post #83 of 348
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I think I forgot to breathe. Fantastic!
__________________
Farewell hope,
and with hope
farewell fear.
John Milton
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:35pm
Post #84 of 348
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Has to do with scale. Look at the Dol Guldur orcs, they're practical because they'll be fighting the elves. The orcs fighting the dwarves are CG because of scale issues. You can't easily find fifty stunt performers who are all over 7ft tall.
I see what you're saying. At the same time there were CGI orcs in places when they weren't fighting any dwarves in the previous movies. And I still think they could find different methods to pull it off on film with real actors whether it be size doubles for the dwarves or even green screening separate fights. Or even having smaller orcs in some places.
One things for sure on this thread already is the courtesy of everyone seems to be quite lessened as of late (Not you, Carne). Everyone here arguing against the CGI or defending it needs to maintain a respectful level of conversation.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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cats16
Half-elven
Nov 6 2014, 6:35pm
Post #85 of 348
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I've so far held myself to three, to not wear it out like you said. I am surprised, actually, how little CG we saw in the trailer. I'm really starting to see what PJ meant by the battle being 'personal' for the most part.
Wow.
Gone for the next several hours, so hopefully I'll be back fresh then.
Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!
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Thranduiliel
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:36pm
Post #86 of 348
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Or portrayed as having antagonistic qualities to our heroes. He is shown to be a coward and selfish and vain. Obviously he's more complex, but his role within the narrative (at least in film 2) is as a villian. I'm sure BOTFA will show his complexity, but it's a two minute trailer. You can't really judge based on that. Just you wait!
It's his portrayal as a villain in the movies, with little explanation of his motives/history I'm objecting to. Sorry, I'm still smarting from Thranduil not being expanded on in the DoS EE.
"Long will I tarry, ere I begin this war for gold. The dwarves cannot pass us, unless we will, nor do anything that we cannot mark. Let us hope still for something will bring reconciliation. Our advantage in numbers will be enough, if in the end it must come to unhappy blows.”
Not so warmongery! I take your point, it's a 2 minute trailer - I hope what we've seen of him is prior to him seeing the plight of Laketown, rather than his son teaching him the errors of his ways. And I still don't know what to make of him vs Tauriel!
But yes, of course, I shall wait and see...
(This post was edited by Thranduiliel on Nov 6 2014, 6:37pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Nov 6 2014, 6:36pm
Post #87 of 348
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Because there's noting wrong with the CGI.
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I watch that I don't see special effects at all - just Middle Earth, and glimpses of the way the story will unfold.
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adt100
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:36pm
Post #88 of 348
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It's hard not to get sucked into such comments and almost take them personally when you are so passionate about something, but I think the best thing to do with such gripes is ignore them. If they they don't like it then fine, don't see the film. It will not stop my enjoyment of this one ioata.
Trolls.... they're very commonplace in Middle Earth you know. ;)
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Macfeast
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:37pm
Post #89 of 348
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But I hadn't seen that side of it yet when I wrote my post. Didn't mean to suggest that only one side was unfairly treated.
(This post was edited by Macfeast on Nov 6 2014, 6:38pm)
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Smaug Report
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:37pm
Post #90 of 348
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There is no bad CG in these films, period.
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And I am not a mindless defender of CG, because there are clearly horrible fx shots in films all the time.
I'm also not a mindless apologist. It's clear, that the same 3-5 posters who pop up like whack-a-moles with the same boring, nonsense every time there is a chance to rain on people's parades is not an accident, and it is nauseating.
So is the fact that TORN'S mod's allow these people to spew their nonsense by "protecting their opinions", which are clearly not mere opinions, but provoking, obnoxious nonsense, and they know they can get away with it, because if anyone DARES offer criticism of THEIR post, they are banned or warned for flaming.
Weak. So the bashers can bash FX artists who are PEOPLE, and PJ and his CREW which are PEOPLE, but we can't bash the bashers back, because well, they're people!
How anyone could watch that trailer and say it's atrocious is laughable. LAUGHABLE.
I will show you revenge...
(This post was edited by Ataahua on Nov 6 2014, 8:30pm)
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:38pm
Post #91 of 348
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in LOTR it is "army bread for a single purpose...to destroy the world of men..."
so not the same really.
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Smaug Report
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:40pm
Post #92 of 348
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everyone has a right to an opinion and this is mine.
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If you have a problem with that, feel free to ban me. I will gladly leave your site.
I will show you revenge...
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Farficom
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 6:41pm
Post #94 of 348
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It is finally here along with a lot of feels. The shot of all the Dwarves with Bilbo in the back we have seen before, but the falling statue makes that shot much more poignant. SARUMAN, bats, and the Dwalin line... Oh, my. The Fili and Kili moment is incredibly touching, but on the other hand trolls with catapults on their backs seem very weird. In the end I must say that Alfrid making an appearance is the most surprising, and the Tauriel/Thrandy moment has me wondering what is going on there.
I like the trailer, and will have to study it a lot more.
(This post was edited by Farficom on Nov 6 2014, 6:46pm)
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HiddenSpring
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:42pm
Post #95 of 348
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Your insecurities are showing. Let everyone like or dislike the film as they please. Me? Found the aesthetics iffy as always, but some of the dramatic elements are breathtaking. Dol Guldur in particular seems beautifully staged.
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Arannir
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 6:42pm
Post #96 of 348
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TORN ist right now the worst place to discuss this trailer.
What has happened?
It is so, so sad.
"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at." J.R.R. Tolkien
We all have our hearts and minds one way or another invested in these books and movies. So we all mind and should show the necessary respect.
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aifeme
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 6:44pm
Post #97 of 348
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Oh my, this is perfect
TORn lurker since 2002:]
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NecromancerRising
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:44pm
Post #98 of 348
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i have seen in TORN.
"You cannot find peace by avoiding life"
(This post was edited by NecromancerRising on Nov 6 2014, 6:45pm)
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Bishop
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:45pm
Post #99 of 348
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Exciting stuff, well crafted trailer. But I can't stave off this feeling of dread about the movie itself.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 6:45pm
Post #100 of 348
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Different capabilities of suspension of belief.
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I grew up on creature features from the 50s with rubber-suited monsters and string-propelled spaceships so modern cgi is just totally awesome to me!
I'm so grateful I'm not a jaded millennial. Kinda sad for them.
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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Bofur01
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:45pm
Post #101 of 348
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Frame-by-frame, and Tauriel seems to have had an arrow on her bow aimed at Thranduil!
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Olorin2607
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:46pm
Post #102 of 348
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I can only say..Bravo to you!
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davidjUK
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:48pm
Post #103 of 348
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is that people keep complaining about 'bad CG' which clearly illustrates their lack of knowledge/experience on the subject because 98% of the CG is REALLY GOOD...and what they are seeing that is 'bad' to them is the digital look of the film mixed with a lot of CG plus highly compressed internet versions of the file.
It's not that all of the CG is bad, there are a lot of other factors involved.
Absolutely agree. Even if there is some "bad CGI", I notice CGI that doesn't look great in the Lord of the Rings films. The Rohirrim charging at the Mumakil is one shot that sticks in my head, and CGI Legolas taking down the mumakil, but I don't start criticizing all of the CGI or the film in general.
Some people are just very negative.
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TheSexyBeard
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:48pm
Post #104 of 348
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Watched the leaked version earlier but couldn't make out a lot (really low quality) so it great to finally see it how its meant to be seen.
Great trailer, nice to see some good character moments, Dwalin being honnest with Thorin, stressed Kili and worried Bilbo. The action scene were good, I'm really surprised that we didn't actually see Smaug at all though. I thought we would at least seen him airborne. I'm surprised by some comments about the CGI, for the most part I think it's great, the only two moments that seem off to me are the elves in front of Thranduil (on Megalocerous! ) and Bard and the close up of that white, fat orc or troll thing.
I'm sort of surprised to see Legolas fighting Bolg, I thought PJ mentioned somewhere that Beorn and Bolg would fight?
Yes, my username is terrible.
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QuackingTroll
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 6:48pm
Post #105 of 348
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That these films contain such strong themes surrounding the impact of industrialization and the destruction of the natural landscapes and yet The Hobbit has replaced 90% of these natural landscapes with artificial creations.
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Scorchster
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 6:48pm
Post #106 of 348
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All this fighting over the CG is spoiling what should have been a wonderful and respectful discussion of all this vast new material we've just seen.
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:49pm
Post #107 of 348
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this generation is so desensitized and spoiled that it is impossible to appreciate anything...even something as breathtaking as the world PJ has created.
It's TRAGIC!!!
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:50pm
Post #108 of 348
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that they wanted to lessen the footprint on shooting actual locations!
That said, I don't think The Hobbit trilogy is a lesson in restraint/simplicity by any means.
(This post was edited by Lindele on Nov 6 2014, 6:51pm)
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Elizabeth
Half-elven
Nov 6 2014, 6:50pm
Post #109 of 348
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All the long shots of hordes in a wide landscape...
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...look totally fake. The shot with all the arrows fired at once? Impossible. Yes, I know they're Elves and Elves are magical, but it looks fake.
The character shots look great, and all the drama appears right. I'm just hoping they get the CGI fixed in the movie.
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Retro315
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 6:51pm
Post #110 of 348
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In general CGI irritates me bigtime. Which isn't to say that as CGI goes, Weta doesn't do the best job. And there is plenty of it here, and for many people anything more than its minor supplemental use has lost its luster. (This is why we're all tap-dancing at the promise of actual puppeteers and costumers getting trade work in Star Wars: The Force Awakens).
That said, nothing here looked atrocious to me. Or I should say - nothing looked "any more or any less atrocious" than any other previous Middle-earth trailers. There's such a massive difference in quality between, say, the DOS trailer (which featured unfinished elves, as we'll recall) and the finished product. And when I say "finished product" I mean the Extended Edition next year.
Think how bad Azog looked compared to the AUJ: EE. I'm sure those trolls will be refined. Think how much better the color-grading gets once it gets looked over again a second time.
Anyway, what did I especially like here? The thriller character focus and really quick action shots were nice. The threat of violence against a lot of characters was nice. The locations are nice - I'm less keen on the detours made in the second film (where have I heard that before?) but somehow the expansion of the "Big Battle" doesn't bother me especially much. Proper cinematic battles where Tolkien described them minimally are where P.J. has traditionally done good work. Splitting narratives and adding plot elements, not so much.
I have a feeling in spite of my favorite book moments happening in the last film, I'll like this one more. Erebor and the surrounding lands feel more solid and laid out and fleshed out and like they'll be explored. Ravenhill! We see plenty of old Ravenhill here. That brief shot of the overlook from Ravenhill of the burning Lake-town and Dale to the east is epic.
So the trailer ...
I'm glad to see more trolls. It breaks up the shapes in the army but also ties back to the three trolls in the first encounter, and then links to Fellowship quite well.
The bats! They actually surprised me. I remember P.J. saying he was going to do some "creature" stuff but it never occurred to me that the bats would be anything more than set-dressing. But those giant bats are a proper fantasy creature and are also right out of Sauron's history in The Silmarillion, where when he sacked the tower of Tol-in-Gaurhoth he filled it with his personal pets - werewolves and vampire bats. So it's lovely to see the wargs and bats of Gundabad really reflect that.
Speaking of Gundabad, it definitely has that "Orcish Capital" feeling. I like the rust red of Misty Mountain iron, it's a different color-scheme than we've seen. Even if it's just Leggy and Tauriel spying on the place briefly, it's nice art direction.
I'm generally excited to explore more of the interior of Erebor, as much so as the frozen exterior. We can double-dip with character beats and drama even as the funnier characters just generally "show us around".
Azog in armor looks fierce. That last shot of him vs. Thorin looks great. All the ice feels good and thematically poignant. Cold hearts and all that. Revenge being a dish best served on a frozen river. I'm just glad to see him put a shirt and some wools on. Being a Gundabad orc I guess the cold doesn't bother him much - I do appreciate the art team loading him up with classical "Barbarian" fashion, though.
There's not much else to comment on since it's mostly the primary players. OF COURSE Thranduil is a villain, that's the whole point. But the quick glimpses of Bard hanging on for dear life to his longbow and a big, black arrow are very promising to me. I genuinely don't want him to kill Smaug with that ballista, it will be very upsetting if he earns that Elf-respect with anything other than his massive longbow.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 6:52pm
Post #111 of 348
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...except for all the mods on all the other sites on the net.
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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Retro315
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 6:52pm
Post #112 of 348
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That's no trouble - it just means Bolg probably wins the fight!
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Scorchster
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 6:53pm
Post #113 of 348
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However, to be fair, it's not like many of the fantastical locations in the Hobbit story have suitable replacements in the real world.
Still, I was surprised to learn that the whole eagles and carrock scene in AUJ wasn't CGI, but an actual aerial shot on location!
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Thranduiliel
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:53pm
Post #114 of 348
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Frame-by-frame, and Tauriel seems to have had an arrow on her bow aimed at Thranduil!
Very intriguing! Could shape up to be a great scene!
(This post was edited by Thranduiliel on Nov 6 2014, 6:54pm)
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dormouse
Half-elven
Nov 6 2014, 6:54pm
Post #115 of 348
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Because I did too.
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Smaug Report
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:54pm
Post #116 of 348
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I'll give you an example-
If people had seen the spectacle and vision of even AUJ in 1995, it would have blown people's minds beyond anything they had ever seen, but now, simply with the passage of time, and an ADD, Social Media addicted generation of people who flock to Michael Bay films and have instant gratification at their disposal for any and all media in 1080p on a dozen mobile devices they can't stop twittering on , suddenly and mysteriously you have large swaths of people relegating mind-blowing visuals and cinematic visions into one note sentences of "boring." as they go write awful Thrones fan fiction and watch Naruto.
I will show you revenge...
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:55pm
Post #117 of 348
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Legolas on the bats: "bred for a single purpose....war"
I did have to roll my eyes at the line. I half expected him to say "...to destroy the world of men." I don't know if they put it in there as reference to LOTR or not. It doesn't matter. Could they really not thing of something else to say instead? Or just not say anything.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea
Nov 6 2014, 6:55pm
Post #118 of 348
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It's the "bred for a single purpose..." that hit me like a brick as soon as I heard it. Yet another nod/nudge to LotR that isn't needed, IMO
ETA cross-posted with Redgiraffe!
"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
Ż Victoria Monfort
(This post was edited by Eleniel on Nov 6 2014, 6:59pm)
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ecthelionsbeard
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:55pm
Post #120 of 348
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I don't think any looks fake per se. Everything just has a very etherial, stylized look to it. The cgi itself is state of the art imho. Nothing in this trailer looks any worse to me than the battle at pellenore.
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:55pm
Post #121 of 348
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people don't really know the difference between actual environments/sets/CGI...there is so much stitched together that often one shot contains all three....and this happened in LOTR constantly. The difference is that the clarity of the imagery in The Hobbit is much higher, and that there is in fact quite a bit more CGI.
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 6:56pm
Post #122 of 348
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Both sides.
I completely agree with you. Everyone seems to be acting like children around here. Let's stop the name calling and assumptions and anger on both sides and just agree to disagree.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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Boromir Stark
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 6:56pm
Post #123 of 348
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1) The Nine look AWESOME!
2) Elrond is wicked.
3) The brief clip of a flaming Sauron standing atop those stairs gave me chills.
4) Galadriel clutching at Elrond's leg as Saruman turns towards Sauron? Odd to see her looking so vulnerable, no?
5) I wonder who the big white pot-bellied troll is. Is he even a troll at all? Might be he's the commander of the Gundabad army.
6) Thranduil fighting Tauriel?
7) Also, Tauriel getting whooped by Bolg. My guess is Bolg kills Kili and Tauriel comes to his rescue.
8) Looking like Legolas gets to kill Bolg. Unless Bolg whoops him and Beorn intervenes.
9) Is that a standard arrow that Bard uses to stop himself falling off the roof? He's also clutching a bow in his other hand... I'm guessing he uses his bow to kill Smaug.
(This post was edited by Rosie-with-the-ribbons on Nov 6 2014, 8:19pm)
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 6:57pm
Post #124 of 348
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HAS HIS STAFF FROM LOTR!!!!
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adu
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:58pm
Post #125 of 348
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The dramatic beats seem right and I'm sure the CGI will be tweaked a bit for for the final film. I give credit to PJ that despite knowing full well what happens in the book, I'm still incredibly excited to see how it's presented on film...because it will always be different than how each reader imagines it (and so it should be I feel). Yes there are changes, but no change yet has taken me totally out of the movie or the story that remains untold.
Very excited.
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Bofur01
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 6:58pm
Post #126 of 348
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There seems to be a statue-like thing over Galadriel and Gandalf, in the shot with the Nine... It looks like it's holding a palantír!
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Smaug Report
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 6:59pm
Post #128 of 348
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or you could simply watch a trailer like a normal person
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And not freeze frame it, saying it's terrible, when the film isn't even done yet.
I will show you revenge...
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 7:00pm
Post #129 of 348
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...in a cardboad box with old gift wrap tubes for cannons.
Yes, very tragic.
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Nov 6 2014, 7:00pm
Post #130 of 348
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O December, where art thou?
(This post was edited by BlackFox on Nov 6 2014, 7:01pm)
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Nov 6 2014, 7:00pm
Post #131 of 348
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Surprised by the focus on CGI in reactions...
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...because first and foremost I was overwhelmed by all the drama in the trailer.
Not that people aren't entitled to focus/criticize on whatever pops out to them, because certainly they are. I just didn't come away from this myself reacting to the VFX. It was all the moments, i.e.: "You gave a promise...", "You cannot see what you have become", "Leave Sauron to ME", etc. that made an immediate impression on me.
That said, I think the VFX are pretty spectacular myself, aside from literally one or two bits that could use a little more work.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Nov 6 2014, 7:03pm)
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Guert
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:01pm
Post #132 of 348
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SARUMAN : "Leave Sauron to me"
That is some real stuff happening isn't it ? And this shots with the ghoslty armored Nazguls surrounding Gandalf and Galadriel. And all those character moments... Bilbo, DWALIN !!! This line was so heartbreaking... Bard, Gandalf... Elrond drawing his sword, Legolas fighting Bolg.
This film will be awesome, I'm sure.
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TheSexyBeard
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 7:01pm
Post #133 of 348
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I just assumed Legolas would win round 2. Bolg could win, and knock Legolas away, or the fight could be intervened by something. I'm guessing Bolg attacks Tauriel and Legolas jumps in, or the other way round (Tauriel is crouching over a body in one shot, you can see the feet).
Yes, my username is terrible.
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macfalk
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 7:01pm
Post #134 of 348
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1. What is Gandalf saying in the end?
2. Is this CGI finished? I hope they patch it up a little bit because some of it looks pretty unfinished.
That troll was pretty damn ugly.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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Smaug's Fire
The Shire
Nov 6 2014, 7:02pm
Post #136 of 348
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It's been a year or so since I last read the Hobbit, so if I am being forgetful, correct me!
1. What is Thranduil coming to reclaim?
2. "This is the last move in a master plan.." What? What plan? Sauron's? Where are those Orcs going, into firery holes?
3. Gundabad? Bats? How did Legolas and Tauriel get their so fast? What role is Gundabad playing?
4. Frozen waterfall?
I did enjoy the trailer however, these are just a few questions I had after watching!
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Shagrat
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 7:03pm
Post #137 of 348
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Giant Projectile-Shooting Contraptions at 1:26
[In reply to]
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Pause it and you'll see those are Dwarves of the Iron Hills manning them. So evidently this is a misleading sequence of events, to have us believe that the Elves are exchanging volleys with them.
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phij2
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:03pm
Post #138 of 348
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i just can't wait.
Please i need it to come out now, this very precise exact minute. Now i tell you now,
breathes deeply, okay maybe in two minutes
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Smaug Report
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 7:04pm
Post #139 of 348
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I don't need a pill. And there are no insecurities here.
I am not some PS4 fanboy who turns red in the face if someone likes an Xbox ONE. Nobody is going to lessen my enjoyment of these films, and no, they are not perfect and I myself have some issues with them.
But, what it's true is true, and what is right is right, and if nobody else can smell the BS here, I sure can. I'm not afraid to call it out either. This isn't about opinions either.
There is a way to state an opinion in a way that is mature, adult, intelligent and fair, even if it's very negative. That I don't have a problem with. You hate the movies? Try actually making a compelling argument why supported by facts and in a way that is not so completely transparently provoking and obviously baiting.
I will show you revenge...
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TheSexyBeard
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 7:04pm
Post #140 of 348
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It is a troll.
But if you mean the fat one that gets a close up, I thought he could have looked a bit better, I liked the catapult ones though.
Yes, my username is terrible.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 7:04pm
Post #141 of 348
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Earth vs. the Flying Saucers (1956) is still a favorite. Turn off the lights and grab some buttered popcorn. Wonderful!
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Nov 6 2014, 7:05pm)
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Loresilme
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 7:04pm
Post #142 of 348
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After all along he's been right there with Thorin. That really hit me too.
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Cirashala
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 7:05pm
Post #143 of 348
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they certainly aren't big enough to be dwarf feet
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:07pm
Post #144 of 348
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And I am not a mindless defender of CG, because there are clearly horrible fx shots in films all the time.
I'm also not a mindless apologist. It's clear, that the same 3-5 posters who pop up like whack-a-moles with the same boring, nonsense every time there is a chance to rain on people's parades is not an accident, and it is nauseating.
So is the fact that TORN'S mod's allow these people to spew their nonsense by "protecting their opinions", which are clearly not mere opinions, but provoking, obnoxious nonsense, and they know they can get away with it, because if anyone DARES offer criticism of THEIR post, they are banned or warned for flaming.
Weak. So the bashers can bash FX artists who are PEOPLE, and PJ and his CREW which are PEOPLE, but we can't bash the bashers back, because well, they're people!
I am sad to say I have found Tolkien fans to be the most smug, uptight, arrogant, impossible to please, insufferable brats in fandom, and I will not miss this site.
How anyone could watch that trailer and say it's atrocious is laughable. LAUGHABLE.
You have to understand that you are perceiving them as coming off that way. Someone offered their opinion on the matter and then personal attacks started on both sides. When personal attacks start on both sides that's where it becomes a problem.
I saw nothing wrong with any of those first posts commenting on the CGI. They expressed their dislike for it and that was all. Sure they might have a habit of posting negative things about the hobbit trilogy. That might be because they do not enjoy the way it has turned out. It's the same thing as someone always posting positive things about the trilogy. It's because they like the trilogy.
This argument has quickly deteriorated into personal attacks among posters on both sides and to me THAT makes the board a negative experience.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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Aitieuriskon
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 7:07pm
Post #145 of 348
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IIRC, the wording in this chapter of the book leaves it ambiguous over whether the dwarves and elves have begun shooting at one another before Gandalf intervenes.
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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LadyEmmaE
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 7:08pm
Post #146 of 348
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... Kili, will go something like this?
1) Fights in battle
2) Gets injured badly, possibly protecting Thorin/Fili/Tauriel
3) Sees Tauriel (I beliieve that was him lying in her arms?)
4) Gives Tauriel the talizman that Dis gave to him
5) Tauriel goes to Dis to give it back (assuming she lives), then hops on a ship to the Gray Havens or wherever.
Anyways, the trailer was great! Loved the Thorin and Kili headbutt thing.
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:08pm
Post #147 of 348
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TORN ist right now the worst place to discuss this trailer.
What has happened?
It is so, so sad.
the admins are probably going to come in and clean all of this up. They're very good at putting a swift end to these sorts of things.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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Lissuin
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 7:09pm
Post #148 of 348
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is sobbing behind Elrond as Saruman says "Leave Sauron to me". It is an interesting choice to show her vulnerability. But then she was magnificent in her LOTR scene of temptation by the ring, which she overcame. Elves are after all, as described by Tolkien, full of extreme passions of all varieties. Dol Guldur will have wonderful moments, it seems. And Elrond looks fabulous and strong, Saruman very powerful.
Great trailer!
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 7:09pm
Post #149 of 348
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******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Nov 6 2014, 7:10pm
Post #150 of 348
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I'm just a couple years behind you Darkstone
[In reply to]
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But I remember the same kinds of "special effects". Who could forget Jason and the Argonauts! (Although Ray Harryhausen was a legend in my book).
Like you I was blown away by this trailer. The visuals are breathtaking to me! I love they way they set up each major piece of the story too.
I have a list of things to bring to the theatre:
- Hankies (I planned lots but I've amended that to lots and lots),
- Chocolate (I will need more of this than I thought),
- A good stiff belt of something in the scotch family (Now amended to 2 stiff belts)
How about we just sit here and wave our canes at all the young whippersnappers who find their entertainment in complaining on the internet. We know better - the entertainment will come in December!
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Glassary
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:10pm
Post #151 of 348
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Not going to wade in on the CGI debate.
But the emotions evoked are outstanding.
Dwalin confronting Thorin and agreeing with Bilbo, unexpected and great.
Elrond in armor, the entire Dol Guldur scenes...wonderful.
Literally the gangs all here and ready to rock.
Thranduil still mysterious but epic. PJ has said that he is the best
fighter in ME so can't wait to see this.
Also don't think he does Tauriel in. Think PJ has cut & pieced the trailer
to imply things that we will find are not true for either of them.
I think Thranduil comes upon Tauriel at Kilis side as he is dying or dead.
She reacts to someone being there and he knocks aside her bow.
Have a feeling that Tauriel doesn't die at all.
Wish could have spied Dain and some more Balin but some mystery for the film is o.k.
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Elarie
Grey Havens
Nov 6 2014, 7:11pm
Post #152 of 348
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Suspension of disbelief and good story telling are everything.
I also remember those rubber monster suits (with the zippers up the back), and I have to remind myself sometimes just how far special effects have come and how the most amazing CGI now looks ordinary to me. I'm just really happy that Middle Earth has been so beautifully created on film, since I can remember a time when it was literally impossible to do this.
__________________
Farewell hope,
and with hope
farewell fear.
John Milton
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caglarkuraner
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 7:11pm
Post #153 of 348
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00:43 Gandalf ?
(This post was edited by caglarkuraner on Nov 6 2014, 7:12pm)
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shadowdog
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:11pm
Post #154 of 348
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that miniatures don't film well with the digital high speed cameras they were using to film The Hobbit.
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Smaug Report
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 7:11pm
Post #155 of 348
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This is not about opinions. You can say the sky is made of dead fish, and yeah, you have the right to your opinion, but it's clearly ridiculous.
So is saying something of this obvious overall quality is atrocious. If you think that there's nothing behind the same handful of people spewing the same nasty bile here time and time again, on a message board about films they hate yet they can't stop mysteriously posting about is just them offering their sweet little thoughts, I have some swamp property for you.
I will show you revenge...
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Carne
Tol Eressea
Nov 6 2014, 7:14pm
Post #156 of 348
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I like spotting these minor "goofs", which mostly end up being fixed anyways. There's also a quick shot of Freeman's double Brett Sheerin in one of the AUJ trailers.
Lots of fun watching Ingrid Kleinig do her stunt scenes as Tauriel in the TDoS extras.
(This post was edited by Carne on Nov 6 2014, 7:16pm)
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shaundobson
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:16pm
Post #159 of 348
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trailer is alright, CGI is way over used in this i must say however, and i'm sure even the CGI defenders will agree it's abit over used, the orcs attacking the dwarves look bloody awful.
Even the locations look like a computer game and that elf army !
And the plot's i dont like, everytime i see another kili/tauriel scene it irritates me alot, but thats just my opinion. Another Bolg/legolas showdown is pointless another waisted plot.
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Eruonen
Half-elven
Nov 6 2014, 7:17pm
Post #160 of 348
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Agree, I was first captured by the emotional aspects
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and the intensity. Sure, a few designs I questioned but overall it was a terrific trailer. I am sure he did not show us Thranduil cutting Tauriel's head off. I do see her thrown against a stone wall....who knows...but I doubt
we will see a spoiler in the trailer. The freeze frame on the Dol Guldur circle scene is great. Shining silver armour clad warriors / council members and Saruman is terrific.
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BlackFox
Half-elven
Nov 6 2014, 7:17pm
Post #161 of 348
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"This was the last move in a master plan, a plan long in the making." //
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There&ThereAgain
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:17pm
Post #162 of 348
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Sacrifice quality of film to protect the environment
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I know that this time around the filmmakers didn't want to impact the NZ landscape so instead chose to shoot more plates and marry those with the actors on greenscreen.
So what we get is the movies we are getting and that's okay for me because traveling around the NZ countryside it would be a shame to have that being trampled on and big filming trucks carving big roads into the natural landscape.
Also, I think PJ and the main filmmakers don't want to travel as much. If they can film "almost" everything in the studio why not? There is a such a big infrastructure in Wellington. It's also cheaper.
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 7:18pm
Post #163 of 348
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But I remember the same kinds of "special effects". Who could forget Jason and the Argonauts!
I was nine or ten when I saw the trailer on TV with the skeleton army and thought it was the most awesome thing I ever had seen!! I just had to see it!!! Mowed lawns all week so I could go to the Saturday showing. Went in when they opened at noon and saw it again and again till the theater closed at midnight.
Ah, the wonderment!!
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:18pm
Post #164 of 348
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Not going to wade in on the CGI debate.
But the emotions evoked are outstanding.
Dwalin confronting Thorin and agreeing with Bilbo, unexpected and great.
Elrond in armor, the entire Dol Guldur scenes...wonderful.
Literally the gangs all here and ready to rock.
Thranduil still mysterious but epic. PJ has said that he is the best
fighter in ME so can't wait to see this.
Also don't think he does Tauriel in. Think PJ has cut & pieced the trailer
to imply things that we will find are not true for either of them.
I think Thranduil comes upon Tauriel at Kilis side as he is dying or dead.
She reacts to someone being there and he knocks aside her bow.
Have a feeling that Tauriel doesn't die at all.
Wish could have spied Dain and some more Balin but some mystery for the film is o.k.
CGI aside the emotion definitely looks great. A problem I had with the last two, especially DOS, was too much focus on action and not enough on characters. Judging from this trailer it looks like a lot of focus on character. I'm excited to see how it all plays out.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:20pm
Post #165 of 348
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that miniatures don't film well with the digital high speed cameras they were using to film The Hobbit.
I know PJ has said that. The problem for me is that I still don't like it. He could have had many reasons for doing so and they can all be justified. Still, it doesn't look as good to me, and I would have preferred him to have filmed it the old way. I think it would have looked a lot better, IMO.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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NoelGallagher
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:21pm
Post #166 of 348
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Where is Gandalf in the shoot with Saruman,Elrond and Galadriel ???
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mo0on-light
The Shire
Nov 6 2014, 7:21pm
Post #167 of 348
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that what i call an epic trailer .. why no one talked about the background trailer .. is soo amazing i really can't wait to get soundtrack cover ... but i really have question to peter is why do you hate fili so much none of any three over trailer did ever show him i really wish to know why all of scenes only for kili but not to fili don't you think he deserve more scenes as much as kili
(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 9 2014, 7:28pm)
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Aitieuriskon
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 7:21pm
Post #168 of 348
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Something worthwhile to discuss. Here's what I think:
1.) In the book the Elvenking wants a share of the hoard, both because he believes that some of his own wealth is in the mountain, and because he wants to help out the homeless Lakemen. In the filmverse, we were shown his desire for the Nauglamir-esque gems from the AUJ EE prologue, which is presumably what he's after here.
2.) Gandalf is referring to Sauron's master plan. The orcs appear to be entering tunnels that will allow them to approach the Mountain unseen while the Free Peoples quarrel.
3.) In the book, bats block out the sun during the battle and allow the goblins to march and fight during the day. Here they appear to be closer to the Thuringwethil-style vampire-bat creatures of the Silmarillion than to those we saw in AUJ streaming out of Dol Guldur. Mount Gundabad was the primary orc-hold in the North of the Misty Mountains. It's where the hunters under Azog and Bolg come from in the film-verse. It looks like it operated as Sauron's secondary base under Azog's command. Legolas and Tauriel probably track Bolg there following the destruction of Laketown. The forces of Azog marching from Dol Guldur and the forces of Bolg marching from Mt. Gundabad will likely meet up and flank the unsuspecting Free Folk at some point.
4.) Not really sure about where this frozen waterfall is meant to be. Presumably somewhere in the environs of Dale or Ravenhill. Unless it's near Mt. Gundabad?
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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Boromir Stark
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:22pm
Post #169 of 348
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Harryhausen's stop-motion fantasy movies are still the best fantasy movies for me.
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His creatures weren't just monsters for the heroes to fight - they were characters of their own.
Jason and the Argonauts, Clash of the Titans, the Sinbad Trilogy... All fantastic monster movies.
If you liked those you should check out Jack the Giant Killer. Not a Harryhausen movie, but made by the same director and with some of the same actors as The 7th Voyage of Sinbad. The effects aren't anywhere near as good as Harryhausen's movies, but it's still a very good fantasy flick.
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 7:25pm
Post #170 of 348
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where 'someone' blatantly called anyone who liked the trailer 'sheepish' and would love anything PJ does...that one was a bit aggressive and I wouldn't blame anyone for taking offense.
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iduna
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:25pm
Post #171 of 348
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I felt like I could hear Dwalin's heartbreak there -- so much emotion! He's been so loyal to Thorin for so long, to have to realize that Thorin is not himself must have been devastating.
Loved seeing Elrond, Saruman and Galadriel facing off against the Nine in Dol Guldur! That will be epic.
Not sure how Tauriel/Kili thing is going to play out, though. It looks like Kili is giving Tauriel the runestone while they're standing on a gravel shore (somewhere near Laketown?). He's not lying down, he's just very short. He may be thanking her for healing him, and saying that he's going back to join the others in Erebor.
Then Tauriel and Thranduil seem to be in Dale, with all that snow.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 7:26pm
Post #172 of 348
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We forget all the injuries to cast and stunties in the LOTR films. I sometime wince at the scenes I know where someone was hurt.
CGI orcs don't get broken limbs or concussions. That's a good thing.
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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NoelGallagher
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:26pm
Post #173 of 348
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where is Gandalf in the shot were Saruman says:
"Leave Sauron to me" ?!?
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BornOutOfTheWest
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:26pm
Post #174 of 348
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Just got back so a little late with the reactions but WOW. 10X better than the teaser trailer, and one of the best trailers of the 6 films! Loved seeing some Dol Guldur actions, should be so epic with Saruman throwing it down with Sauron!
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Aitieuriskon
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 7:28pm
Post #175 of 348
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Didn't Bernard Hill accidentally cut off a piece of someone's ear during the "brace the gate" scene in TTT?
"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:29pm
Post #176 of 348
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This is not about opinions. You can say the sky is made of dead fish, and yeah, you have the right to your opinion, but it's clearly ridiculous.
So is saying something of this obvious overall quality is atrocious. If you think that there's nothing behind the same handful of people spewing the same nasty bile here time and time again, on a message board about films they hate yet they can't stop mysteriously posting about is just them offering their sweet little thoughts, I have some swamp property for you.
I can't remember the last time I posted a positive post about the hobbit movies on TORN. I think it's safe to say I'm probably one of those posters that is usually negative.
My opinion of these movies have been quite negative, and that shows in my posts. And I can tell you there's nothing behind me posting about the same negative things in most of the threads. I'm simply offering my opinion. You can think whatever you like about the other posters on this board, but you still have no proof of what they are thinking.
Most importantly, if you truly think they are trolls, then continuously posting about it in the thread is not the proper way to handle it. It seems quite clear the only thing that has happened here is a big fight. My advice is either engage the person respectfully, or ignore them and contact an admin if you think they are trolling.
That's it. I'm done arguing about the arguing on this thread. I've already overstepped my bounds trying to keep things civil. Everyone needs to re-read the sticky at the top of the board again.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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Noria
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 7:31pm
Post #177 of 348
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For me special effects are always an adjunct to the story, a means to an end rather than the raison d’etre.
AUJ and Dos made extensive use of CGI characters and environments, so why would anyone expect anything different in the final installment? I don't get why people pause the video just to seek out moments they can criticize.
As for the trailer, I loved it, especially the glimpses of so many character moments that will give this film heart and feeling in the midst of all the spectacle. If this trailer is any indication, the final movie will be fantastic.
As usual, those of us who love the previous movies are likely to have loved this trailer. And the converse.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 7:31pm
Post #178 of 348
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Some sets in LOTR I would have sworn were real turned out to be cgi, and some sets I thought were cgi turned out to be real locations.
Go fig!
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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Macfeast
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:32pm
Post #179 of 348
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Ok, now that I have had time to gather my thoughts.
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A very somber, serious, and dramatic trailer. Very fitting. As I mentioned prior, not necessarily my favorite trailer... but it is up there among them.
The makeshift barricade that the dwarves put up is very impressive; Not only does it block the hole in the wall, it also has a stairway leading up for the defenders! That's some impressive last-minute stonemasonry.
Is it Gundabad that the orcs are entering, and if so, why are they entering, not leaving? Also, is the bat-place a part of it, or is it another location entirely?
The Nine? Yes. Elrond? Yes! Saruman going up against Sauron? OH YES! I can't wait to see what the Dol Guldur-storyline is going to bring.
Surprised to see Dwalin, Thorin's "staunchest supporter", stand up to Thorin like that. Of course, that just makes the effect even more powerful, and Dwalin looks and sounds absolutely heartbroken.
Bard with a bow and arrow? Might the windlance be a red herring after all?
Ok, seriously, those are some menacing-looking bats.
The view from Ravenhill is pretty fantastic.
Legolas vs. Bolg, huh? I do hope Legolas is not the one to land the killing blow.
Finally... could someone tell Thorin to button up that V-neck of his?
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Glassary
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:36pm
Post #181 of 348
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As a child the best scene was the skeletons in Jason & the Argonauts.
Remember thinking this was the most awesome thing ever!
Now as a older (ahem) adult I can see how basic the special effects were
but it doesn't change the magic.
I've also found that in recent years I have to remind myself not to be too critical.
It can be a case of the technology causing the problem.
If I watch a film on my older dinosaur tv, the effects look great and real.
But watching same dvd on my huge HD tv some of the effects and scenes
don't look as good.
Sometimes I think that zooming in tooooo close takes a bit of the magic out.
(This post was edited by Glassary on Nov 6 2014, 7:42pm)
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Barrel_Rider
The Shire
Nov 6 2014, 7:37pm
Post #182 of 348
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look really weird in the shot at 30 seconds in, the CGI ain't to bad overall, but obviously it's bad in other places. There has been bad CGI in a few parts in every film so far in the trilogy, not that it's all bad but clearly, it is some parts.
As for the trailer, I said before, it's good. But i assume they wanna leave the Dwarf army under wraps.
(This post was edited by Altaira on Nov 9 2014, 7:31pm)
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:37pm
Post #183 of 348
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where 'someone' blatantly called anyone who liked the trailer 'sheepish' and would love anything PJ does...that one was a bit aggressive and I wouldn't blame anyone for taking offense.
Yes that is aggressive and offensive. And I do not defend that post at all. At the same time it shows that someone has a certain perception about people who are positive much like other people have perceptions about people who are negative. Perceptions are perceptions and only add fuel to the debate because they become offensive, like the comment you are referring to.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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Elessar
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 7:40pm
Post #185 of 348
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Anyone notice once of the Nazgul looks like an Easterling?
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NoelGallagher
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:40pm
Post #186 of 348
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any ideas where Gandalf is in the scene with Saruman speaking ?
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There&ThereAgain
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:41pm
Post #187 of 348
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It's interesting that there's little to no Smaug in the trailer. Show's that the marketing people (maybe told by PJ and co) that Smaug gets offed rather quickly and isn't really the focus of film 3 at all.
Of course, the effects of Smaug are very clearly felt throughout. I'm more interested than ever to how they portray his death and the immediate aftermath.
"The world is indeed full of peril, and in it there are many dark places; but still there is much that is fair; and though in all lands love is now mingled with grief, it grows perhaps the greater."-J.R.R. Tolkien
"Thanks for the money!" -George Lucas
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macfalk
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 7:43pm
Post #188 of 348
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I need to know what Gandalf is saying in the end!
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Gah!
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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shaundobson
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:43pm
Post #189 of 348
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isn't he lying on the flor next to galadriel in the background?
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 7:43pm
Post #190 of 348
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I have no idea...no idea at all.
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FiliSonOfDis
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:44pm
Post #191 of 348
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I like Fili (obviously) and I have forgiven his lack of inclusion in the first 2 movies because i know they switched actors, but this final film when Fili SHOULD have some significant moments I'm sad to see more Kili up front and center... Fili is the next in line to the thrown, I wish this was played up more and I'll be really angry if Fili is pushed aside for Kili centric scenes. kili and tauriel fine whatever i dont like it but it's a thing so i get it but Fili being pushed aside from any serious interaction with Thorin in favor of Kili confuses me to no end. Honestly wonder why they didn't switch them and have Kili be next in line as your average movie goer probably thinks Kili is Thorins son or something at this point and Fili is his cousin. Hopefully the trailer isn't indicative of the whole movie as at least the promotional posters and stuff have been pushing Thorin, Kili, Fili as they should.
As for the trailer as a whole I loved it, yeah too much CGI but at this point was I expecting it to look like FOTR? no.
(This post was edited by FiliSonOfDis on Nov 6 2014, 7:46pm)
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Macfeast
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:44pm
Post #192 of 348
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And the individual designs altogether are very interesting.
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Spalko
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:44pm
Post #193 of 348
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We see Galadriel holding him as the nine approach, and the next scene, same place, he is not where he was. What will happen between those scenes? Perhaps will Radagast appear and take care of him while the others fight? I remember the behind scenes video where Gandalf and Galadriel are on the ground and we can see Radagast in behind them and the sled on their left.
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:45pm
Post #195 of 348
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Anyone notice once of the Nazgul looks like an Easterling?
I didn't notice that. I did notice they have some interesting armor designs. One of them seems to have horns that droop down on the sides. Looks awesome to me. I really can't wait to see how they turn out. They also look a little translucent. That with the white shade is making me think this is their twilight form and that they aren't simply wearing armor.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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adt100
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:46pm
Post #196 of 348
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I've watched it 9 times. Reaches the heights of TTT trailer which was equally stunning. Can't wait to see it with Interstellar tomorrow. :)
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 7:46pm
Post #197 of 348
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YOU HAVE BUT ONE QUESTION TO ANSWER....
HOW SHALL THIS DAY END?
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shaundobson
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:46pm
Post #198 of 348
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You don't even need to pause the video to see that all the elves have the same faces at 0:30 !!
I'm sorry but for a franchise that has cost hundreds of millions it is simply not good enough. :(
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 7:47pm
Post #199 of 348
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Gamling (Bruce Hopkins) slashed Hill's ear during the scene (some bodyguard!), though it was not severed completely. Hill also broke his sternum and later sustained a groin injury while riding his horse, which made his Pelennor scenes rather painful.
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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KeenObserver
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 7:48pm
Post #200 of 348
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”The thirst for adventure is the vent which Destiny offers; a war, a crusade, a gold mine, a new country, speak to the imagination and offer…” - Jose Bergamin
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 7:51pm
Post #202 of 348
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Sometimes I think that zooming in tooooo close takes a bit of the magic out.
As a kid I always used to sit front row center so I could see everything really good!!
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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Cirashala
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 7:55pm
Post #203 of 348
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Fili actually calls Kili his brother in DOS, and Kili calls him brother in AUJ (though that was during the scene where Fili was walking atop the table, so it makes sense that it may have been missed there).
AND- something I loved (Kili's my favorite character in the movies, and F and K in the books, but I also wish to see more Fili) is that there's a shot of Fili looking toward the ruined Dale while riders head away from the mountain toward the city, and he's with THORIN, not Kili
That gives me hope that there may be more interaction with the two of them in BO5A than there were previously
But, like you, I really think that (akin to his scenes in DOS) Fili does need to come to the fore. As much as I love Kili in the role, Fili is equally amazing as a character (as I said, they were BOTH my favorite characters in the book long before the movies were even announced) and he is equally, if not more so, important to the quest as a whole.
Especially after hearing Thorin's line in the trailer, "Everything I did, I did for them." 
It's official- I'm going to be a blubbering mess by the time the credits roll in the theaters
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Spalko
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:56pm
Post #205 of 348
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Unf! I cannot wait to watch the whole scene and see how Gandalf comes to "life", they fight the Nine and Saruman confronts Sauron.
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Glassary
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 7:56pm
Post #206 of 348
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Remember coming home from the theater after sitting in the front row with a headache!
Would head straight for some pain killers once home.
LOL my mom would see me doing this and almost always say "told you to stop sitting
in the front row".
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Wordofmask
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 7:57pm
Post #207 of 348
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I was growing up with CGI movies since 90s and played a tons of video games that have mind blowing cgi. I still fine with cgi in this trailer not the best but good enough.
(This post was edited by Wordofmask on Nov 6 2014, 7:57pm)
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Elessar
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 7:57pm
Post #208 of 348
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I like the designs of the armor but that one stood out to me.
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Elessar
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 7:58pm
Post #209 of 348
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But it was the first one I noticed.
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KeenObserver
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 7:59pm
Post #210 of 348
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With you guys all the way - a most captivating trailer, indeed //
[In reply to]
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”The thirst for adventure is the vent which Destiny offers; a war, a crusade, a gold mine, a new country, speak to the imagination and offer…” - Jose Bergamin
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:59pm
Post #211 of 348
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I like the designs of the armor but that one stood out to me.
which one is it because I'm still not seeing it?
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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NoelGallagher
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 7:59pm
Post #212 of 348
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Unf! I cannot wait to watch the whole scene and see how Gandalf comes to "life", they fight the Nine and Saruman confronts Sauron.
because i doubt Gandalf will be at full strength after getting "reanimated". I even like the idea he leaves earlier with Radagast...
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 8:01pm
Post #213 of 348
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...in the first LOTR trailer (the one with the Fellowship-over-the-crest money shot), you could see the Nazgul actors' black stocking masks under their hoods. This was fixed by the time the film came out.
Remember, trailers are made from snippets of the unfinished film, and many scenes in them will probably be altered, reshot, or even removed entirely when the actual film comes out.
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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adt100
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 8:01pm
Post #214 of 348
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Yup, is say Smaug will be a quick/shock death in the first 15 mins.
[In reply to]
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By 'shock' I don't mean unexpected, but that people who don't know the book in particular might expect him to play a much bigger part than he actually does in the final part of the story.
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Elessar
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 8:02pm
Post #215 of 348
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straight across from Gandalf's feet has an Easterling like armor design.
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:03pm
Post #216 of 348
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A couple of thoughts (includes spoilers of course)
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So... I hope the heat is cooling down. I know that most of us have an emotional bond to those films and I do understand that we all want a big and great and emotional and amazing and cool final chapter in the cinematic Middle-earth saga so it's only human to react in these ways we did. But don't forget... there's a lot of stuff to talk about besides the CGI... I'm talking about plot points:
1.) DESTRUCTION OF LAKE-TOWN
I was surprised that there was no shot of Smaug at all. Not even the shot we saw in the teaser. Interesting. I'm also interested if the Master survives this destruction. We know that Alfrid will but the Master?
2.) DOL GULDUR
For me (obviously) a big part of the story and propably one of the chapters I'm looking forward the most. Elrond looks badass. Gandalf looks... well wasted. Galadriel carefull and Saruman... he's just a cool guy. I also like the shot of Sauron on the top of the stairs. I could imagine that this is the place where he disappears. Christopher Lee looks much better this time around. While the CGI on his face in AUJ was far more obvious this time he almost looks like the FOTR Saruman.
3.) THE NINE
The Nine look amazing. I can't tell which one of them the Witch-King is since neither is anyone wearing the crown he wears in AUJ nor the one he wears in FOTR nor the helmet the WK wears in ROTK. But I guess it's the big one with the wizards/sorcerers staff on the right that almost looks like Sauron. Also I believe that I can see one Haradrim (the one in the back with this strange fork like weapon). Why a Haradrim? Because my Haradrim action figure from ROTK carries a similar weapon. The "fat" one on the right with the strange helmet (actually might be a PJ cameo as TORN FB page suggests) could be an Easterling. With little imagination you can see a modified version of TTT and ROTKs Easterling helmet. Being an Easterling Nazgűl this would make him Khaműl right? Definitely a great shot. I never thought to see the Nine like this.
4.) MOUNT GUNDABAD
Finally! Oh guys... how often did I annoyed you with my wish to see Mount Gundabad in this final movie? Finally we see it. Now I'm thrilled how much of it we will see. We see the Orcs from Dol Guldur enter the tunnels, we see Legolas and Tauriel being there somehow observing the army and the bats and we see the Orc army leaving alongside Trolls and other creatures. Great! I hope we see some parts of the interior as well. The red rost looks cool. The architecture reminds me a little bit of the walls of Minas Morgul... which would be logical since both parts are connected to the Witch-King. The Bats by the way don't look like the fluffy ones we saw in AUJ. These Bats are really evil looking. Almost vampire like.
5.) AZOG & BOLG
Azog looks amazing. Again... something I posted several times since we saw him in AUJ: Please give him some kind of armor or at least a leather cloak. And finally: He gets an armor. And an amazing one. Definitely based on several concept arts we already saw in the chronicles books. His fight with Thorin looks great. Bolg on the other hand is fighting Kili, Bilbo, Tauriel and Legolas on several places. Most of it will take place on Raven Hill I guess... Fighting so many heroes... I'm not sure if there's still room for Beorn to crush him.
6.) GOBLINS
It looks like some of the Orcs (around 1:57) aren't Gundabad Orcs but Goblins from Goblin Town only with armor alongside Orcs and Trolls. Which would be (again) something I wanted to see since we saw them in AUJ. I also believe this naked something... the one who does look like a mix of Orc and Troll and might even be a Half-troll could be a Goblin instead. He definitely looks a little bit like a Goblin to me. Perhaps he is the new leader of the Goblins after the death of the Goblin King?
7.) BARD & THORIN
So before the war and even before the arrival of Thranduil there will be a negotiation between Bard and Thorin. We see both of them taling and later Bard riding his white horse back to Dale.
8.) THRANDUIL & TAURIEL
Why is Thranduil attacking Tauriel? Perhaps because she wants to protect Kili or stop Thranduil from attacking Erebor? This happens before Gandalfs arrival I guess.
9.) NO DAIN
There's no Dain at all. No hint of the Dwarves from the Iron Hills this time besides the ballistas. No war rams. I'm fine with that. There has to be something new we haven't seen before.
10.) NO FILI
There's a lot of Kili in this trailer but besides a few background appearances there's no Fili in this trailer. Interesting as well
11.) EMOTIONAL LEVEL
Well... everybody is crying. There's no funny moment at all in this trailer. It is very dark and looks very LOTR-ish to me.
There's so much more to interpret. So much more to talk about. This is our last Middle-earth movie. This is a more than worthy trailer. Go to the cinemas. One or two or three or as many times you want and enjoy it. I definitely will.
"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:05pm
Post #217 of 348
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... it has to be Khaműl right?
"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."
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Olorin2607
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 8:08pm
Post #218 of 348
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- The Nine look very intriguing. Much better than the witchking in AUJ. Where is HE btw?
- Saruman has quite yellow teeth himself :D poor raddy..
-Sauron seems to be more "physical" than in DOS or is it just me?
-that statue in Dol Guldur in the middle.. Palantir anyone?!!
- The big trollish guy.. I think he might be the leader of the scout party of orcs/ goblins tha come to Dale before the real battle begins. He seems to be a relative to the Goblin King
- The Elven army really needs to be touched up CGI wise a bit ;)
- Laketown on flames will be a treat in 48fps
- Behind Bard on the tower with the ballista lies his BOW
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aifeme
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 8:08pm
Post #219 of 348
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At first I didn't notice that. Stil think that this trailer is really, really good, I mean I love it But s it too difficult to put some men in elven armor in front of the green screen?
TORn lurker since 2002:]
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NoelGallagher
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 8:08pm
Post #220 of 348
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nice youre finally there, Lieutenant :) !
[In reply to]
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we actually discussed, though in a very small group ( )
where Gandalf is in the shot with Saruman,Elrond and Galadriel ?!
Do you think it is possible he leaves after the fight with the Nine, maybe together with Radagast ?!
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Joe20
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 8:08pm
Post #221 of 348
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Mad Hatter of Middle-Earth
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 8:11pm
Post #223 of 348
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This is going be some epic movie. Saruman vs Sauron...yes please! Thranduil looked fantastic and the bats!.....I can't wait!
The emotion was very heavy too....I quite liked it!
All you have to decide is what to do with the time that has been given to you...
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adt100
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 8:11pm
Post #224 of 348
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Saying anything of it is 'atrocious' is beyond opinion, it's hyperbole in the extreme and is simply wrong. People can always hide behind the 'opinion' argument but in this case I'm sorry but it's just our of order and wrong. People can have issue with elements of it, issues with the extensive amount, but with the quality based on this trailer? Certainly not? I have yet to see anything better and on a comparable scale from any of the other big releases this year. CGI is open to far less interpretation with regard 'opinion' than for example, specific designs (of characters or locations), of plot lines, of acting. We'll see of course when AMPAS and all the visual effects guilds and award bodies give their, very experienced and very qualified, opinions on it in the new year.
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:14pm
Post #225 of 348
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65% of the other opinions on this forum to be valid...sorry.
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Arandir
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:16pm
Post #226 of 348
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Unless I'm thinking of another shot, I believe you're referring to the second shot of Bard as he is looking through that squarish whole saying: "You brought upon them only ruin and death".
For some reason, I have a feeling he is actually talking to Bilbo in secret - behind Thorin's back. Perhaps it's the tone of Bard's voice, his compassion (not anger), which makes me believe it's the hobbit who is conversing with him and the words that will ultimately propel Bilbo to go out and make the exchange with the Arkenstone.
'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
Why we Love 'Sherlock'
'How Peter Jackson inches closer to making 'The Silmarillion'
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iduna
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 8:16pm
Post #227 of 348
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At 0:49, when we see the orc armies streaming through giant holes in a mountainside, are they going into the mountain, or out?
I think they're going in.
But if that is Gundabad, why are they going in? And if they've drilled some kind of holes into the sides of Erebor, and are invading the Lonely Mountain, how are 13 dwarves expected to defend the whole mountain against that army?
(Furthermore, the book never says that the orcs made it into the mountain. The war was outside. Right?)
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 8:18pm
Post #228 of 348
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Half of the trailer looked like unfinished pre-viz! I don't mind the use of CGI in these films, but this one looks really, really bad. Hope it looks better in the film.
Laketown looks incredible.
The digital sets now look great, without blemishes.
I'm afraid I'm not too keen on the army shots. But they look nothing like undo finished pre vis, do you know what pre vis looks like? They look like berg high production value shots, but unfortunately not real enough for me.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 8:20pm
Post #229 of 348
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I'm not a mod, but I've been here a long time (since the First Age).
[In reply to]
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And in my experience, people don't get banned for taking one position on the films or another. They get banned for violating the terms of service. Having been on unmoderated boards in the past, I am so grateful to our beaters of the bounds for keeping the conversations here as civil as possible. Sometimes something slips through the cracks, but I know they do the best they can. I've been chided by mods a time or two myself, and I always thank them for the reminder, because I'm so grateful for fourteen years of a positive little corner of the Internet.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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shaundobson
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 8:20pm
Post #230 of 348
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in the movie verse apparently there are caves which by sheer luck lead to Erebor which is another stupid idea.
why didnt they just keep it like the book ?
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Joe20
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 8:22pm
Post #231 of 348
(9211 views)
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If I find something atrocious I will say so. And this is atrocious
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How anyone can call something like this acceptable let alone good is beyond me.
http://bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/...es/hobbit-clones.png
They have literally used the same design for elves and stuck them directly in front of the camera. It's not hyperbole. It's disgraceful.
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MirielCelebel
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 8:22pm
Post #232 of 348
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Literally. After watching the DOS EE and now the trailer, I've come to the conclusion, these films are awful. I will love them til the day I die, I will buy them, then buy their EE, then the boxed set, and I will swear by them but they suck. Way too much CGI.....BUT the actors and the character development, and the emotion in this trailer drove me to tears. I mean the image of Thorin and Kili and Thorin's line "I did it for them," and Kili lashing out at his uncle, it's just incredible. This will be a spectacular movie and we all just need to accept that the CGI will suck and look unrealistic and cheap but you know what? The story has always been what's most important and I don't think we'll see anything short of flawless in that department.
"The Road goes ever on..."
Writing Bliss
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iduna
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 8:22pm
Post #233 of 348
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Kili's standing up, giving Tauriel the runestone. He's not lying in her arms.
And they do seem to be on some kind of gravelly shore or river-bank -- I guessed the same, that Kili gave the runestone to Tauriel before going back to the Lonely Mountain.
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 8:22pm
Post #234 of 348
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~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
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shaundobson
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 8:24pm
Post #235 of 348
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i agree that Elf army shot is a disgrace for these high movies!
[In reply to]
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Olorin2607
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 8:24pm
Post #236 of 348
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You should better say: For me the CGI is awful, but that does not matter since the story and the characters are beyond amazing.
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:26pm
Post #238 of 348
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The story and the acting and the art design and the costume design and the locations and the emotion and the arcs and the characters and the music and the passion behind it are so amazing!!! But there is too much CGI
SO THESE FILMS SUCK!!!!!
give me a break
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 8:26pm
Post #239 of 348
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I grew up in the sixties, but I saw plenty of those fifties movies.
And for me, the effects can be whatever they are, if the storytelling is good. My kids, who are millennials, I guess, much prefer the Hobbit cartoon to the new movies. But some of that is probably nostalgia on their part.
I find that for myself, over-the-top CGI action makes me sleepy. So I hope it's balanced by plenty of actual character interaction. But there seemed to be a lot of that in the trailer too, so I'm hopeful.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:27pm
Post #240 of 348
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TRAILER!!!!
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 6 2014, 8:27pm
Post #241 of 348
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Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Tseon
Registered User
Nov 6 2014, 8:28pm
Post #242 of 348
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Now that you said this, I'll have to watch it again.
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Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:28pm
Post #243 of 348
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The official synopsis says:
"Unable to help Thorin see reason, Bilbo is driven to make a desperate and dangerous choice, not knowing that even greater perils lie ahead. An ancient enemy has returned to Middle-earth. Sauron, the Dark Lord, has sent forth legions of Orcs in a stealth attack upon the Lonely Mountain. As darkness converges on their escalating conflict, the races of Dwarves, Elves and Men must decide—unite or be destroyed. Bilbo finds himself fighting for his life and the lives of his friends as five great armies go to war."
Perhaps the Orcs built secret tunnels? I always wondered why they used STEALTH attack since such a big army marching is not that stealthy isn't it? So perhaps there are secret tunnels? In the book Tolkien mentions that there are Goblin tunnels under the whole Misty Mountains giving the Goblins the opportunity to march in large numbers without being seen by someone else. Perhaps those tunnels in the trailer are a reference to that?
"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."
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Greypilgrim
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 8:28pm
Post #244 of 348
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I posted this earlier but it was removed. He's wearing it while unconscious, look at his hand!!!!
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iduna
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 8:29pm
Post #245 of 348
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Maybe the orcs blasted the holes in the mountain
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It doesn't make a lot of sense for the caves to have been there all along.
If they were, then Thorin and Co. spent a lot of unnecessary time fussing over the map and the hidden door and Durin's Day, when they could have just gone in this other way.
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Elanor of Rohan
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 8:30pm
Post #246 of 348
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this movie is going to be incredibly close to LOTR for atmosphere...
Too many Elves and too few Dwarves, but that seems to be the usual trailer/advertising policy for WB lately...
So no Dain, he'll come out as a bolt from the blue wih his Iron Hills dwarves... or not?
No Beorn as well.
No Balin and no Fili confronting Thorin: if that were the case it would be a huge disappointment for me...
It is a trailer, it gives us glimpses of a general idea, it wants to tell about an atmosphere...
The mood is getting darker and darker...
Best line ever: the beginning of a master plan...
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iduna
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 8:31pm
Post #247 of 348
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Yes I noticed that! 
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Bishop
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:32pm
Post #248 of 348
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It's not about something being acceptable
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It's about continuity. Those Elves look EXACTLY like they did when they stood next to Thranduil in the AUJ prologue. :)
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FiliSonOfDis
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 8:32pm
Post #249 of 348
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I like them both as well, Fili and Kili in the book might as well be one character after all. If anything I'm more against Tauriel and Kili's romance, but Kili and tauriel as characters alone I'm totally fine with.
My main issue with Kili is that Fili is pushed aside for him, I forgave it in the first two films because I assume the switching of Fili's actor may have cut a lot of his screen time and turned Kili/Fili scenes into just Kili scenes. This time around though I want Thorin acknowledging his nephews equally, Kili can have his Tauriel scenes but the three remaining line of Durin members should be together and treated as the king and prince dynamic that they are.
And yes it's been stated they are Thorins nephews and brothers to one another it's just your average movie watcher, from the way the interactions and screen time alone have been shown, will probably think Kili is somehow more important to Throin and the bloodline as a whole since Fili has gotten about as much face time as any other dwarf while Kili has gotten more (bofur, balin, dwalin level).
still again, the posters have shown all 3 of them the chariot in the last trailer showed balin dwalin kili and fili on it and like you pointed out Thorin says he did it for "them" and i assume that meant fili and kili so hopefully Fili will get some moments here.
On another note I pointed this out in the last trailer and since it hasn't changed I'm going to have to assume it is not a CGI mistake: Oin Fili Kili and Bofur have their pre-captured by the elves clothing on when they first reach Erebor (you can see this in the scene where Thorin is in the Gold hoard and they are up on some steps with Bilbo), I assume this is the first time Thorin see's them since Lake Town is destroyed and there is a shot of his face looking in disbelief that I believe is when he first sees that they have survived. Since they have there pre-captured clothing on I'm assuming thranduil returns there belongings to them during the lake town refugee camp scene (probably as a sign of good will in an attempt to bargain with Thorin for his jewels) so I expect Thranduil or at least some of the Mirkwood elves to interact with Oin Fili Kili and Bofur before they head back to Erebor.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 8:35pm
Post #251 of 348
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They did a pretty good job with that shot
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Considering the elves are CGI.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 8:36pm
Post #253 of 348
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They DO look like the same ones! Like they were immortals or something!
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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namarie
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 8:37pm
Post #254 of 348
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"Don't try to be perfect, just try to be yourself"
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:37pm
Post #255 of 348
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one frame (shot) and write the films off as disgraceful when there are thousands of other beautifully hand crafted shots is a little unfair. They could have literally just not had time to finish it properly.
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macfalk
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 8:39pm
Post #256 of 348
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Can someone allay my fears that what we saw is unfinished CGI that they will work on some more?
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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iduna
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 8:39pm
Post #257 of 348
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I suppose the issue will be explained in the movies -- where exactly the caves are, how the orcs found out about them, and how come Thorin et al. didn't know there were other entrances into Erebor so large you could drive an army through them.
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:40pm
Post #258 of 348
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how could they? are they really so heartless and cruel?
The people behind these films have no regard for our feelings. No regard whatsoever.
They have the NERVE to take ONE shot and make it look terrible!!?
That's it. I'm done.
Not even going to see it.
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The Mitch King
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 8:40pm
Post #259 of 348
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I think its the contrast with Bard and Thranduil I don't like.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 8:40pm
Post #260 of 348
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I don't think it'll change in the final film
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one frame (shot) and write the films off as disgraceful when there are thousands of other beautifully hand crafted shots is a little unfair. They could have literally just not had time to finish it properly.
But it's not that big of a problem. At least they match the elves in the AUJ prologue that were also very similar looking and CGI!
What I like in this trailer are the excellent character moments, are there are many stunning shots (particularly Laketown and Erebor looking out onto it).
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Olorin2607
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 8:40pm
Post #261 of 348
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I must say that it really comes off a bit dodgy and we all know the Elves in AUJ did not look any better.. and there they had time.
But still it totally DOES NOT ruin the movie.
DOS EE has some dodgy CGI as well and still its a wonderful movie.
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:41pm
Post #262 of 348
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EVERY OTHER HOBBIT TRAILER WE'VE SEEN
Yes, this trailer was probably put together before all of the shots in the film are finished.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 8:42pm
Post #263 of 348
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Can someone allay my fears that what we saw is unfinished CGI that they will work on some more?
Chances are little will change, mainly grading. But unlike last year the film is pretty much finished. If you don't like the look of it, you're going to have to try to come to terms with it or just don't watch it. The CGI looks very polished, it's just they seem to love that sort of glossy hyper real look rather than gritty and hazy and realistic (like Jim Rygiel, visual effects supervisor for LOTR, always pushed for).
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:43pm
Post #264 of 348
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WAS HORRENDOUS
but you are absolutely right. The film (EE) was great, and well worth looking past a couple of bad shots. BECAUSE THERE ARE SO MANY GOOD ONES.
I even decided to look past the atrocious (note my use of the word) GoPro shots in the barrel sequence.
(This post was edited by Lindele on Nov 6 2014, 8:44pm)
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Hanzkaz
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 8:43pm
Post #265 of 348
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Pretty much what I was hoping for at this stage, even when AUJ first came out.
I've no idea how the movie is going turn out but I'm looking forward to it more than ever, now.
No sign of Dain, but I hope he gets his 'hero moment'.
As for the CGI Elves being the same, I don't know. I expect Elves to have certain 'unhuman' traits, anyway.
From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.
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The Mitch King
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 8:47pm
Post #266 of 348
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I suppose the issue will be explained in the movies -- where exactly the caves are, how the orcs found out about them, and how come Thorin et al. didn't know there were other entrances into Erebor so large you could drive an army through them.
Definitely dug by orcs. I assume they lead from Gundabad to outside of Erebor.
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Olorin2607
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 8:51pm
Post #267 of 348
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But that still gives me the right to tell you mine..namely that spreading negativity before even saying anything regarding the OVERALL feel of the trailer is also.. well... atrocious.
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Gandy
Bree
Nov 6 2014, 8:53pm
Post #268 of 348
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Well now we know how Tauriel dies, thanks spoilerific trailer! Sweet trailer though, cant wait! Am I the only one who thinks it looked like Thranduil cuts her throat with his sword? LOL Watch closely again. ________________________________________________________________________ Tauriel has an arrow in his face, fully drawn string, and he just breaks the arrow into pieces with his sword. Frame grabs show the broken pieces clearly. Frame by frame over-analysis also shows 3 unique elves that are duplicated via CG countless times. Very odd. Three is a tiny number. At least do 20. They can swap faces on barely animated faces easily. Three is a weird decision. There are live elves and CG. The 3 live elves got in costume in front of a green screen, and then footage was duplicated to form a line. Rinse, repeat. That's a very acceptable technique and makes the most sense, but using 3 actors is weird. Just a few more would make it not look like the Elven attack of the clones. Dol Goldur has so much potential for breathtaking imagery. The intimate setting, the big bosses of ME all in one place, the stakes... Wow. I am looking forward to Dol Goldur more than the Battle5. I dearly hope it isn't cut too short or mostly wastes time with Orcs flipflopping everywhere Wilhelm scream stuff. The Nine and Sauron shouldn't be a brief climax after boring Orc growling. Most importantly - Saruman absolutely should allowed to show his 100% uncorrupted self. Audiences don't know that side of him. "Leave Sauron to ME!" This line should be spoken by a Saruman pure of heart and he should battle Sauron so grandly and beautifully that the tragic future we already know he will have, will add a deep level of bittersweet to the end of the battle. The Palantir is there, so natuarlly we know he will take it. But this should be after his final act of pure goodwill. Just a quick hint at the future. He isn't taking it because he made a deal with Sauron during their fight. Apparently even Galadriel is getting beat up. Saruman maybe arrives later? Thus the following: Saruman should brandish the 3 good rings of power on his own Infinity Gauntlet. My guess from the quick trailer cuts, Galadriel finding Gandalf on the ground - this is at the beginning before the big fight commences. Gandalf has just been freed from his cage and is very weak, beaten. Galadriel rushes to him. After this, the real action starts. Help arrives. Gandalf gets eagled away to Battle5 before the main Dol Goldur fight. That's why he isn't on the ground in the following scene. He might fight some though because "The Power of the Three". His ring is involved. Rambling finished.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 8:56pm
Post #269 of 348
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Jackson & Co. are probably reading this thread as we speak and cackling maniacally as they satisfy themselves drinking our sad sad tears of disillusionment and despair!
They're doing everything they can to deliberately make a terrible film we won't want to see! Because... er... well.. ah....
How about:
1. Make horrible film.
2. Something.
3. Something.
4. Profit.
Yeah, that!
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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NoelGallagher
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 8:57pm
Post #270 of 348
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This feels more like a complete CGI - thread...
[In reply to]
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Cant there be created a separate one for this issue?!
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 8:59pm
Post #271 of 348
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from the very beginning...back in the mid 90's when they started writing LOTR, was to make 5 amazing and beautiful Middle-earth films JUST so that our hopes would be at their highest in anticipation for the sixth film in which he would DEVASTATE us with something horrendous. It's all just a big scheme.
It's a remnant of his splatter film days...he loves to shock people.
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Smaug's Fire
The Shire
Nov 6 2014, 9:02pm
Post #272 of 348
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Something worthwhile to discuss. Here's what I think:
1.) In the book the Elvenking wants a share of the hoard, both because he believes that some of his own wealth is in the mountain, and because he wants to help out the homeless Lakemen. In the filmverse, we were shown his desire for the Nauglamir-esque gems from the AUJ EE prologue, which is presumably what he's after here.
2.) Gandalf is referring to Sauron's master plan. The orcs appear to be entering tunnels that will allow them to approach the Mountain unseen while the Free Peoples quarrel.
3.) In the book, bats block out the sun during the battle and allow the goblins to march and fight during the day. Here they appear to be closer to the Thuringwethil-style vampire-bat creatures of the Silmarillion than to those we saw in AUJ streaming out of Dol Guldur. Mount Gundabad was the primary orc-hold in the North of the Misty Mountains. It's where the hunters under Azog and Bolg come from in the film-verse. It looks like it operated as Sauron's secondary base under Azog's command. Legolas and Tauriel probably track Bolg there following the destruction of Laketown. The forces of Azog marching from Dol Guldur and the forces of Bolg marching from Mt. Gundabad will likely meet up and flank the unsuspecting Free Folk at some point.
4.) Not really sure about where this frozen waterfall is meant to be. Presumably somewhere in the environs of Dale or Ravenhill. Unless it's near Mt. Gundabad?
Ah thank you! I was thinking something along these lines but I wasn't sure!
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aifeme
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 9:04pm
Post #274 of 348
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I loved the trailer, but also mentioned the faces of the Elven army. Because I could.
In Your eyes people like me hate this trailer and previous Hobbit movies. And all that other things You wrote...You're just putting words into peoples' mouths. It's offensive.. Just stop.
And stop using caps lock so much, otherwise no one will take You seriously.
TORn lurker since 2002:]
(This post was edited by aifeme on Nov 6 2014, 9:08pm)
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NoelGallagher
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 9:06pm
Post #275 of 348
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And stop using caps lock so much, otherwise no on will take You seriously.
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Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire
Nov 6 2014, 9:07pm
Post #276 of 348
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left me rather cold, despite the character moments. Didn´t like the music, very weak in my opinion. No surprise Jackson goes for "Bigger is Better" and the Charme of the book is almost gone. Liked the appearance of Chris Lee, though I have to admit, that I would have liked the before the Trailer rumored line "I will deal with Sauron" more than the actual line.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 9:08pm
Post #277 of 348
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...I hafta keep it on so my beanie don't fly off!
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Nov 6 2014, 9:10pm)
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 9:09pm
Post #278 of 348
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supposed to be taken seriously, necessarily...and if you read my posts carefully (it is very subtle) you can pick up on some slight sarcasm.
In my eyes, i don't claim to think anything about 'people like you' i'm merely referring to the people who blatantly said that these films suck big time despite being 95% phenomenal...
PHENOMENAL!!!
(This post was edited by Lindele on Nov 6 2014, 9:11pm)
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DuBekar
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 9:09pm
Post #279 of 348
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Bilbo flipping us off for the last time ;)
[In reply to]
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If you watch the end of the trailer when Bilbo is putting the ring on his finger, you can see it is his middle finger he is putting the ring in, haha this was actually funny :D
" Why, O people of Noldor! Fëanor cried. Why should we longer serve the jealous Valar, who cannot keep us nor even their own realm secure from their enemy? And though he be now their foe, are not they and he of one kin? Vengence calls me hence, but even were it otherwise I would not dwell longer in the same land with the kin of my father's slayer and of the thief of treasure. Yet i am not the only valiant in this valiant people. And have ye not all lost your King? And what else have ye not lost, cooped here in a narrow land between the mountains and the sea? Here once was light, that the Valar begrudged to middle-earth, but now dark levels all. Shall we mourn here deedless forever, a shadow-folk, mist-haunting, dropping vain tears in the thankless sea? Or shall we return to our home? In cuivičnen sweet ran the waters under uncloaded stars, and wide lands lay about, where a free people might walk. There they lie still and await us who in out folly forsook them. Come away! Let the cowards keep this city!"
(This post was edited by DuBekar on Nov 6 2014, 9:10pm)
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 9:09pm
Post #280 of 348
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ok now i'm turning into a troll
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 9:11pm
Post #281 of 348
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left me rather cold, despite the character moments. Didn´t like the music, very weak in my opinion. No surprise Jackson goes for "Bigger is Better" and the Charme of the book is almost gone. Liked the appearance of Chris Lee, though I have to admit, that I would have liked the before the Trailer rumored line "I will deal with Sauron" more than the actual line.
The Minas Tirith battle looked way huger than anything in this trailer, but they do seem to be holding back with the trailer - not showing much of the actual fighting.
To cheer people up, there's plenty of live action fighting between REAL ELVES, REAL MEN and PROSTHETIC ORCS on the BUILT ON LOCATION Dale set! We only got a split second shot of it in this.
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Joe20
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 9:12pm
Post #282 of 348
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When I say something negative about the film or trailer, I will merely post my opinion. I will not actively seek out those who praise it and attempt to engage in some never ending debate.
Yet those who are positive about the film feel the need to get defensive and accuse those with a different opinion of being trolls or wrong.
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Misty Mountain Hop
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 9:13pm
Post #283 of 348
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Here is the ridiculously funny thing about the people who say "That doesn't look real..."
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What can we define as "real?" When was the last time any one of you saw 10,000 arrows flying through the air in one large wave? Or when did you last see an enormous troll fight a bunch of orcs? How about the last time you saw a dwarf fall two stories onto your face????
No matter what example it is, these things are all fake. I understand that tweaking things here and there can make them look better in terms of color, texture, etc...but when people complain about something looking fake or out of place, where is the comparison?
It's not like seeing a person walk down the street in real life and then seeing a CGI person walk down a street in a movie and compare the two. It's totally different. The fact that they can recreate these huge scenes and make it actually look like a dragon swoops down and throws flames on a bunch of goblins and destroys buildings is pretty amazing.
Yet someone has the nerve to say "That building that just exploded looks fake." Fake compared to what? The building that you just saw explode in real life two minutes ago?
I get that some CGI shots are a bit less convincing, and I'm sure they can get cleaned up before the final cut. Even so, Instead of looking at the glass half empty, or even shattered, blown up, and disintegrated for that matter, try looking at it a little more positively.
If it wasn't for Peter and these guys at WETA making these movies, we wouldn't see anything at all.
I'd really like to see them film a cave troll battling an eagle and not use any CGI. Impossible.
"Only, you've never done a hard day's work." - Merry
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Nov 6 2014, 9:14pm
Post #284 of 348
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LOL, Martin. This is supposed to be a family friendly film.
"The danger with any movie that does as well as this one does is that the amount of money it's making and the number of awards that it's got becomes almost more important than the movie itself in people's minds. I look at that as, in a sense, being very much like the Ring, and its effect on people. You know, you can kind of forget what we were doing, if you get too wrapped up in that."
- Viggo Mortensen
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farmer maggot
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 9:14pm
Post #285 of 348
(11895 views)
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Trailers are made purely for marketing purposes to the general public, not dissection by us obsessive fans.
There is no guarantee that any of these shots are actually in the final (or rough) cut of the film.
The trailer is stupendous by the way, as expected, as will be the film. The last vision of ME!
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 6 2014, 9:15pm
Post #286 of 348
(11854 views)
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These side-discussions of who is more trollish and what type of opinions are less worthy than others will stop now. Please get back to discussing the trailer and not each other - any more posts along these lines will be removed.
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 9:15pm
Post #287 of 348
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Though smaller it looks like the battle will be more complex than Helm's Deep or the Pelennor. There are five (six? seven? eight?) armies after all.
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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Bishop
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 9:15pm
Post #288 of 348
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Nice catch!
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Wordofmask
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 9:16pm
Post #289 of 348
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but I'm ok with your opinion.
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Lindele
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 9:17pm
Post #290 of 348
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bored at work and excited about this new trailer has caused me to spiral completely out of control.
I'm sorry.
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Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire
Nov 6 2014, 9:18pm
Post #291 of 348
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left me rather cold, despite the character moments. Didn´t like the music, very weak in my opinion. No surprise Jackson goes for "Bigger is Better" and the Charme of the book is almost gone. Liked the appearance of Chris Lee, though I have to admit, that I would have liked the before the Trailer rumored line "I will deal with Sauron" more than the actual line. The Minas Tirith battle looked way huger than anything in this trailer, but they do seem to be holding back with the trailer - not showing much of the actual fighting. To cheer people up, there's plenty of live action fighting between REAL ELVES, REAL MEN and PROSTHETIC ORCS on the BUILT ON LOCATION Dale set! We only got a split second shot of it in this.
I was not referring in any way to missing action scenes....
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Fleuz
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 9:20pm
Post #293 of 348
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Thranduil ist cutting Tauriels Bow. You can see it clearly in the Trailer. It seems like she's aiming at something.
Any clues?
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Elfhelm
The Shire
Nov 6 2014, 9:21pm
Post #294 of 348
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...look totally fake. The shot with all the arrows fired at once? Impossible. Yes, I know they're Elves and Elves are magical, but it looks fake.
I agree. The copy-pasted CGI (elf) armies especially looked sooo fake that if that's how it will look like in the theater I'll be completely drawn out of the movie. Surely they can't think that would look convincing, especially when they are all in such tight formation? (As an aside, I've never really agreed with PJ's vision of elven military being so utterly organized and Romanesque in battle - I see them as more free spirited there as well)
With a film this heavily laden with CGI I'm really starting to worry now, as there can't be more than a couple of weeks left now to finish the film... Can only hope they'll pull it off.
The character shots look great, and all the drama appears right. I'm just hoping they get the CGI fixed in the movie.
Yeah. The non-CGI elements were definitely promising.
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Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire
Nov 6 2014, 9:29pm
Post #295 of 348
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What´s up with the site "herr-der-ringe-film.de"? Really ridiculous this site is down every time a new middle-earth trailer arrives. The owners of the site should have known there would be plenty of people try to go there and raise their server-capacity. Already down for 3-4 hours. Very incompetente.
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Fleuz
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 9:32pm
Post #296 of 348
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there was a huge rush as the Link to the Trailer was posted on twitter.
But the site works. Slowly but surely...
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iduna
Rivendell
Nov 6 2014, 9:35pm
Post #297 of 348
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They're going the wrong way, right?
If the tunnels are a way for the orcs to get fronm Gundabad to Erebor in secret, we ought to see them coming out of the tunnels near Erebor. But here they are going into the tunnels.
Seems to me that it would be more exciting to show the orcs arriving at the battlefield, instead of starting on their journey (if that's what they are doing).
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Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire
Nov 6 2014, 9:37pm
Post #298 of 348
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Ich komme seit ca. 4 Stunden überhaupt gar nicht auf die Seite. "Seiten-Ladefehler" aufgrund Zeitüberschreitung (Verbindungsaufbau zur Seite dauert zu lange). Finde ich echt traurig, dass dies jedes Jahr wieder passieren muss, obwohl die Betreiber schon vorher um den Ansturm wissen. Finde ich wie gesagt sehr inkompetent.
Sorry for Offtopic, will drop it now.
(This post was edited by Ar-Pharazôn on Nov 6 2014, 9:38pm)
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 6 2014, 9:40pm
Post #299 of 348
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Yet someone has the nerve to say "That building that just exploded looks fake." Fake compared to what? The building that you just saw explode in real life two minutes ago?
For someone who gets their expectations from movies and video games, a lot of stuff like explosions would look fake in "real life". Movies and video games "sweeten" sounds, visuals, etc. to make them look more exciting, not more real. (I won't mention the plastically augmented movie stars and airbrushed professional models whose physical appearance some people accept as "real".)
I'd really like to see them film a cave troll battling an eagle and not use any CGI. Impossible.
The liability insurance alone would be prohibitive.
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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Name
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 9:45pm
Post #300 of 348
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Having a fun time using my broken German to try and decipher this.
[In reply to]
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How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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Name
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 9:49pm
Post #301 of 348
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But amazing trailer! Some sketchy CG, but whatever. It's a freaking trailer, not the finished movie. Same thing happens with every other trailer in existence. I am however kinda disappointed with the direction this thread has taken.
How many Tolkien fans does it take to change a light bulb?
"Change? Oh my god, what do you mean change?! Never, never, never......"
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CathrineB
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 9:56pm
Post #302 of 348
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Still not fan of the elk. Goddamnit would it kill him to ride a horse like Bard does?
And do we see Kili's death there? Not his actual death, but you know. Tauriel is holding something small and I'd figured it could be Kili considering how sad she looks. Oh goddamnit man. I'm not one of the haters of the two, but I don't want him to die in her arms!!
Way way waaaaaaaaay to little Fili - if any. Where is he? ^_-
The foreheads touching between Thorin and Kili - wow so touching! 
Kili shouting. Quite a character moment! Dwalin! Bilbo omg! So much gorgeous characters I love them all!
Bilbo throwing down the rope to bring the stone to Bard and Thrandy?!!!
People still whine about the CGI? Good lord.
Bard. Thranduil. Ugh. Lee Pace is amazing. Luke Evans too. You can say a lot about these movies, but the casting is perfect.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 10:04pm
Post #303 of 348
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People who disagree think the other is wrong
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When I say something negative about the film or trailer, I will merely post my opinion. I will not actively seek out those who praise it and attempt to engage in some never ending debate.
Yet those who are positive about the film feel the need to get defensive and accuse those with a different opinion of being trolls or wrong.
Responding to posts is the beautfy of a forum!
But you make a fair point.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 10:07pm
Post #304 of 348
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Enough of this stuff about the what you think is bad CGI. Tell me about your favourite shots!
Mine:
- The location shot next to the lake
- Thranduil and Gandalf in the tent
- Tauriel and Kili (the shot looks lovely and real, regardless of your thoughts on their characters)
- All of the Laketown visuals looks stunning
- Those shots of burning Laketown/Dale from Erebor also look wonderful
- The CGI in Erebor is looking better than ever
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 10:07pm
Post #305 of 348
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only breifly viewed it once with no sound
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but for me best shot=Elrond drawing sword like only an ancient and skilled elf could
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Iris70
The Shire
Nov 6 2014, 10:09pm
Post #306 of 348
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Don't you think there are too many elves and too few dwarves in this trailer? And Thorin being attacked by everybody?
And then... so much for the eternal "wind machine " in Middle Earth... this is going to be a real Smaug-nado!
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Bombadil
Half-elven
Nov 6 2014, 10:09pm
Post #307 of 348
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DAMN the Critics..? FULL Speeed Ahead PJ!//
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www.charlie-art.biz
"What Your Mind can conceive... charlie can achieve"
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Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire
Nov 6 2014, 10:12pm
Post #308 of 348
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Why the hell is he wearing in the trailer the same zombie-contact-lenses like Legolas? He didn´t wear it in DOS!
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Elessar
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 10:13pm
Post #309 of 348
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The second or third time I finally caught that. Pretty interesting moment.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Nov 6 2014, 10:22pm
Post #310 of 348
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Of Bilbo climbing over a statue with Dale in the background also looks stunning. I think the visuals really shine at night time, it's harder to pull of CGI in bright daylight I'm guessing.
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Wordofmask
Lorien
Nov 6 2014, 10:46pm
Post #311 of 348
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Who is Galadriel lose to I wonder?
Sauron or The nine?
I hope it would be Sauron. The idea of lady of the light lose to the ring wraiths is unacceptable for me.
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Nov 6 2014, 11:44pm
Post #312 of 348
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Thranduil cuts Tauriels throat or something?!?! What the flip?!?! If you slow it down it certainly looks like he has his sword in hand when he strikes her.
I don't like the way he is talking to Gandalf either.
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macfalk
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 11:45pm
Post #313 of 348
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The goblins in Goblin-town were prosthetic too, but PJ cut them all out and went for the CGI-only route because he didn't like the feel of them. Could be the same case here.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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macfalk
Valinor
Nov 6 2014, 11:46pm
Post #314 of 348
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I love that PJ is acknowledging that Thranduil isn't a good guy!
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Because, well, he isn't. In the book he is a greedy usurper. In the movie he's the same, albeit a charming and interesting one.
The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.
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SafeUnderHill
Rohan
Nov 7 2014, 12:11am
Post #315 of 348
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The goblins in Goblin-town were prosthetic too, but PJ cut them all out and went for the CGI-only route because he didn't like the feel of them. Could be the same case here.
These prosthetic orcs in Dale were shot during 2013 pickups, even though he said he moved more towards digital ones later in the shoot. You can see them in both BOTFA trailers (very briefly) and they haven't been replaced.
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Kim
Valinor
Nov 7 2014, 12:31am
Post #316 of 348
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Once again, watched a trailer while holding my breath the whole time. Epic, but sad, especially for us Thorin fans.
Join us every weekend for The Hobbit Chapter of the Week discussions!
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Wordofmask
Lorien
Nov 7 2014, 12:31am
Post #317 of 348
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And Thorin's facial expression and his line not indicate that He will be a pure villain. He has some reason behind his action "Everything I did I did for them"
(This post was edited by Wordofmask on Nov 7 2014, 12:34am)
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Kim
Valinor
Nov 7 2014, 12:42am
Post #318 of 348
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and some sort of stuffed animal. We're going to need something to hug throughout the whole movie.
Join us every weekend for The Hobbit Chapter of the Week discussions!
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Nov 7 2014, 1:01am
Post #319 of 348
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I was going to build a blanket fort and stock it with supplies.... I'd better start gathering everything.
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Cirashala
Valinor
Nov 7 2014, 1:06am
Post #320 of 348
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he's knocking her bow and arrow out of her hands
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which she has drawn on him for some reason.....I cannot tell you how many times I had to watch it and pause to finally see it all! Not that I needed an excuse for re-watching this magnificent trailer
I don't know if he "snuck up" on her or what, but it's definitely bizarre....
I read the book and all (many times, and yes I know she's not in there) but one nice thing (and frustrating) about the filmmakers not following the book to a T is that it makes the last movie a bit of a mystery- really, ANYTHING could happen.
And for a "loves spoilers" type person like me, it drives me nuts!
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Cirashala
Valinor
Nov 7 2014, 1:07am
Post #321 of 348
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That line did me in....I already knew (due to reading the book) the casualties of the battle, but that line.....oh my gosh, I am going to need to buy the whole darn kleenex aisle stock for this movie!
Then figure out how to get it in there....
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iduna
Rivendell
Nov 7 2014, 1:22am
Post #322 of 348
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Dwalin has dedicated his whole life to being Thorin's defender and supporter.
To finally get to the point where he realizes that Thorin has gone wrong, and that he, Dwalin, has to tell his friend that he's wrong -- that will be devastating.
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AshNazg
Gondor
Nov 7 2014, 1:25am
Post #323 of 348
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I said the CGI in this trailer looks bad (which, I'm sorry, but it does). I'm not being negative for the sake of it, if you read my post (or any of my previous posts) I explain I'm fine with the use of CGI in these films for the most part.
It's just that specific shots in this particular trailer look bad (at least to a few of us) and I am simply expressing my concern by saying that I hope it looks better in the final film, which I'm aware could very well be the case.
I'm sorry for not watching the trailer like a "normal person" but that's my choice.
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 7 2014, 1:34am
Post #324 of 348
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would be the way to watch the movie during a moot with board members! *makes notes*
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 7 2014, 1:50am
Post #325 of 348
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There are a few people who consistently request these, so here you go:
*********************************************************
Bilbo: Thorin, you gave a promise.
Bard: You brought upon them only ruin and death.
Bilbo: You've won the Mountain, is that not enough?
Thorin: Now - we defend it.
Thranduil: I came to reclaim something of mine.
Gandalf: This was the last move in a master plan, a plan long in the making.
Legolas: These bats are bred for one purpose. For war.
Saruman: Leave Sauron to me.
Dwalin: Bilbo is right. You cannot see what you've become.
Thorin: Everything I did, I did for them.
Thranduil: You started this. You will forgive me if I finish it.
Bilbo: When faced with death, what can anyone do?
Kili: I will not hide while others fight our battles for us!
Gandalf: You have but one question to ask; how shall this day end?
Silverlode
Want a LOTR Anniversary footer of your own? Get one here!
"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."
(This post was edited by Silverlode on Nov 7 2014, 11:31pm)
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shadowdog
Rohan
Nov 7 2014, 1:51am
Post #326 of 348
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to say it is atrocious. But to say nobody can say it is good is beyond the pale and unacceptable.
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AshNazg
Gondor
Nov 7 2014, 2:07am
Post #327 of 348
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I've looked at the shots that I think look bad and they're very definitely incomplete. I'm sure once they're touched up and graded it will look fine.
Thranduil's cloned elves worry me a bit, though. Because they looked bad in An Unexpected Journey too. They just get away with it for the very short shot in AUJ, but they better be touched up for BoFA.
Regarding my previous post, I have to admit I didn't expect an explosion of people desperately defending the films after me expressing a rather minor concern in what I thought was a very honest and positive manner Slightly confused, I'm sorry about that.
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Cirashala
Valinor
Nov 7 2014, 2:17am
Post #328 of 348
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"I will not hide while others fight our battles for us!"
Thanks a heap for the transcript Silverlode! Such wonderful lines, such evocative and emotional words!
I think this is going to be the best hobbit film yet by FAR!
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Dwarewien
Rohan
Nov 7 2014, 2:22am
Post #329 of 348
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since watching what happens to him will be like watching a close friend of family member go through the same thing and not being able to do anything about it. If it brought a tear to Dwalin's eye (not sure how I feel about that yet), just imagine what it will do to the rest of us (especially those of us that don't succumb to tears that easily. Unfortunately, I'm not one of them). Don't you hate that helpless feeling, but regardless what happens to Thorin, I'll be on his side no matter what (just thought that I would mention that, since there's nothing Thorin could do that would cause me to hate him, that's just not going to happen).
"Will you follow me... one last time?"
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Scorchster
Rivendell
Nov 7 2014, 2:47am
Post #330 of 348
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People have extremely warped perceptions of what is real and what isn't - and you're absolutely right, the culprit is films and video games that make stuff like explosions look more dramatic than they really are.
For instance, from my time in the military, I know that grenade explosions look nowhere as dramatic or flashy as what they've been portrayed in films. But people who haven't seen any real grenade explosions will only have exaggerations in film and video games to go upon.
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Scorchster
Rivendell
Nov 7 2014, 2:51am
Post #331 of 348
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It's actually slightly odd that they can make all the orcs stand out and look different digitally, yet the elves look cloned.
However, to be fair, the DOS trailer had unfinished CGI as well that was eventually fixed in the theatrical film, so I wouldn't worry.
In any case I definitely wouldn't be nitpicking and looking out for unfinished CGI when watching the film - I intend to get totally swept up by the drama and emotion!
And I didn't think your concern in your previous post came across as trolling or negative in any way.
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Nira
Lorien
Nov 7 2014, 3:27am
Post #332 of 348
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That was a fitting final trailer! I'm going to watch it over and over for the next month.
"Why, to think of it, we're in the same tale still! It's going on. Don't the great tales never end?" -Samwise
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 7 2014, 4:40am
Post #333 of 348
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you agreed to our Terms of Service. While you have the right to your opinion, your participation on this site is contingent on compliance with our Terms of Service.
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ElendilTheShort
Gondor
Nov 7 2014, 5:08am
Post #334 of 348
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Thranduil killing Tauriel or any elf would be disastrous within the context of Tolkiens work. I realise this is a movie adaptation but Tolkien is the source no matter how loose the interpretation, and elf on elf murders are a rarity in the entire history of Arda's mythology, and to see this happen on film as just another occurrence would be terrible beyond belief. It is bad enough that we have already had in the filmverse Gandalf as a representative of the Valar that was meant to have been the only Istar that stayed true to his mission, hitting the Steward of Gondor and Aragorn beheading an emissary during parley.
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Nov 7 2014, 5:09am
Post #335 of 348
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'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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Mooseboy018
Grey Havens
Nov 7 2014, 5:14am
Post #336 of 348
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I've made the mistake of reading some youtube comments, and I'm amazed and frustrated by people's need to complain about things that they obviously know nothing about. There are so many people complaining about the bats of all things and saying that Peter Jackson is just making stuff up and that bats have no place in Tolkien's Middle-earth...
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cats16
Half-elven
Nov 7 2014, 5:38am
Post #337 of 348
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I haven't gotten to scan the masses of threads yet, but some general thoughts:
- The "tunnels" shot looked to me like it was some sort of exit from Gundabad. I didn't think it to be anywhere near Erebor. It reminded me of some sort of tunnel that one would find on the roadway, going through a mountain.
- Saruman's transition into FOTR seems to be on a very smooth path. I'm curious to read Darkstone's thoughts on it, as I know he's posted on that topic several times.
- No comment on CG stuff, other than that, without theatrical quality sound/final edits of shots, I choose not to talk about the cake before it's out of the oven.
- So excited by what we saw, but also how much we didn't see.
*watches trailer once more*
Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!
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mae govannen
Tol Eressea
Nov 7 2014, 6:01am
Post #338 of 348
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Great, but too discrete, this transcript of yours!
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I nearly missed it!!! And yet i was looking anxiously for a transcript everywhere...
'Is everything sad going to come untrue?'
(Sam, 'The Field of Cormallen', in 'The Return of the King'.)
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 7 2014, 7:57am
Post #339 of 348
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If you watch the end of the trailer when Bilbo is putting the ring on his finger, you can see it is his middle finger he is putting the ring in, haha this was actually funny :D
Thank you! I noticed this as well. Part of me is thinking that Martin does this intentionally.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 7 2014, 8:10am
Post #340 of 348
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What can we define as "real?" When was the last time any one of you saw 10,000 arrows flying through the air in one large wave? Or when did you last see an enormous troll fight a bunch of orcs? How about the last time you saw a dwarf fall two stories onto your face????
No matter what example it is, these things are all fake. I understand that tweaking things here and there can make them look better in terms of color, texture, etc...but when people complain about something looking fake or out of place, where is the comparison?
It's not like seeing a person walk down the street in real life and then seeing a CGI person walk down a street in a movie and compare the two. It's totally different. The fact that they can recreate these huge scenes and make it actually look like a dragon swoops down and throws flames on a bunch of goblins and destroys buildings is pretty amazing.
Yet someone has the nerve to say "That building that just exploded looks fake." Fake compared to what? The building that you just saw explode in real life two minutes ago?
I get that some CGI shots are a bit less convincing, and I'm sure they can get cleaned up before the final cut. Even so, Instead of looking at the glass half empty, or even shattered, blown up, and disintegrated for that matter, try looking at it a little more positively.
If it wasn't for Peter and these guys at WETA making these movies, we wouldn't see anything at all.
I'd really like to see them film a cave troll battling an eagle and not use any CGI. Impossible.
I can't speak for everyone. I can only speak for myself, however, I'm sure many others who feel the same way about the CGI would agree with what I'm about to say. We do have something to compare it to: The Lord of the Rings movies.
Yes, the quality of CGI is probably much better (for the most part) in these films than in LOTR, seeing as the technology is more advanced. However, there are many of us who think that the hobbit doesn't look as realistic as LOTR, and a lot of it has to do with CGI.
There can be many different reasons as to why some of us think the CGI in the hobbit looks more fake than what we've seen in LOTR. Part of it is the more widespread use of CGI throughout the hobbit trilogy, as apposed to using more sets/prosthetics/locations/minatures. Another part of it is the crispness and cleanliness of the digital camera that makes CGI more apparent.
Usually the response I receive when I say that is, "Well PJ couldn't use miniatures and had to use CGI and digital because of 3D and 48fps, etc." Well, I already know PJ couldn't use miniatures and filmed on digital for the 3D and 48fps. But that still doesn't change the fact that I think the film looks less realistic than LOTR. In fact, it actually supports my argument (at least from my point of view) that the films look different.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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redgiraffe
Rohan
Nov 7 2014, 8:13am
Post #341 of 348
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They're going the wrong way, right?
If the tunnels are a way for the orcs to get fronm Gundabad to Erebor in secret, we ought to see them coming out of the tunnels near Erebor. But here they are going into the tunnels.
Seems to me that it would be more exciting to show the orcs arriving at the battlefield, instead of starting on their journey (if that's what they are doing).
Unless the tunnels are more or less in front of Mount Gundabad and not exactly in it.
-Sir are you classified as human
-Negative, I am a meat-popsicle
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sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea
Nov 7 2014, 8:15am
Post #342 of 348
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My hopes for BotFA keep going up and down, but with this trailer i'm excited about seeing this final film again. Way too much Kili for me, but otherwise probably the best trailer of all the Hobbit films. Some choice moments for Gandalf, Elrond and Saruman(!), and those trolls with the siege weapons strapped to their backs were absolutely fantastic. I still have a feeling that there's going to be much too much digital double cgi action wankery going on (Legolas, Bolg. Azog, that weird Harry Potter looking goblin baby thing), but it is looking like BotFA is going to be the tightest-- and least disappointing-- of the Hobbit films.
I remain cautiously optimistic.
P.S. In the shot with Thranduil and Bard riding amongst the elven warriors, all the elves have the exact same face. I'm assuming that will be fixed by release.
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Drakblod
Rivendell
Nov 7 2014, 8:29am
Post #343 of 348
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Also there's two kinds of bad CGI, there's both CGI that just looks bad (like Legolas riding on the bridge at the end of Desolation of Smaug) then there's the CGI that's designed bad (Like Azog, while his CGI quality is pretty good his skin just very smooth and thus looks unnatural)
Bolg was an improvement, and I hope that the armor is covering most of him so Azog'll look better too.
like butter scraped over too much bread.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Nov 7 2014, 6:44pm
Post #345 of 348
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I like Loresilme's idea that Saruman could be the hero of Dol Guldur. It would definitely cement his bonfides as the most powerful of the Istari. And first-timers watching the films in order will nod knowingly at Gandalf's "I must see the head of my order. He is both wise and powerful. Trust me Frodo, he'll know what to do." and then be as horrified as Gandalf at his later betrayal.
(I still feel *any* foreshadowing of Saruman's treachery will seriously diminish the concept of a wise Gandalf.)
Perhaps the *only* foreshadowing would be The White Council agreeing to keep an eye out for The One Ring.
******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.
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cats16
Half-elven
Nov 7 2014, 8:18pm
Post #346 of 348
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I really like that idea. It builds the audience's trust in Saruman, which will make the events of FOTR feel all the more sinister (and tragic).
And to me it seems that showing Saruman's corruption so soon would taint the huge reveal in Orthanc, as you mentioned in another post.
Join us every weekend in the Hobbit movie forum for this week's CHOW (Chapter of the Week) discussion!
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Silverlode
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 7 2014, 11:32pm
Post #347 of 348
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Yes, quite right. It's been corrected. //
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Silverlode
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"Dark is the water of Kheled-zâram, and cold are the springs of Kibil-nâla, and fair were the many-pillared halls of Khazad-dűm in Elder Days before the fall of mighty kings beneath the stone."
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 8 2014, 2:37am
Post #348 of 348
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Just locking this because the number of responses has exceeded 300
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We have found that long threads like this clog up the boards, so we will lock threads once they exceed 300 responses. Please carry on in other active threads.
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another try
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No
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OK, enough.
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Trailer transcript
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