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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
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Arandir
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:16pm

Post #226 of 348 (2395 views)
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     Your point no. 7 "Bard & Thorin" [In reply to]  

Unless I'm thinking of another shot, I believe you're referring to the second shot of Bard as he is looking through that squarish whole saying: "You brought upon them only ruin and death".

For some reason, I have a feeling he is actually talking to Bilbo in secret - behind Thorin's back. Perhaps it's the tone of Bard's voice, his compassion (not anger), which makes me believe it's the hobbit who is conversing with him and the words that will ultimately propel Bilbo to go out and make the exchange with the Arkenstone.

'A Tolkienist's Perspective' Blog
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iduna
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:16pm

Post #227 of 348 (2385 views)
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     Are the orcs going in or out? [In reply to]  

At 0:49, when we see the orc armies streaming through giant holes in a mountainside, are they going into the mountain, or out?

I think they're going in.

But if that is Gundabad, why are they going in? And if they've drilled some kind of holes into the sides of Erebor, and are invading the Lonely Mountain, how are 13 dwarves expected to defend the whole mountain against that army?

(Furthermore, the book never says that the orcs made it into the mountain. The war was outside. Right?)


SafeUnderHill
Rohan

Nov 6 2014, 8:18pm

Post #228 of 348 (2339 views)
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     Hmm [In reply to]  


In Reply To
Half of the trailer looked like unfinished pre-viz! I don't mind the use of CGI in these films, but this one looks really, really bad. Hope it looks better in the film.


Laketown looks incredible.

The digital sets now look great, without blemishes.

I'm afraid I'm not too keen on the army shots. But they look nothing like undo finished pre vis, do you know what pre vis looks like? They look like berg high production value shots, but unfortunately not real enough for me.


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 8:20pm

Post #229 of 348 (2361 views)
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     I'm not a mod, but I've been here a long time (since the First Age). [In reply to]  

And in my experience, people don't get banned for taking one position on the films or another. They get banned for violating the terms of service. Having been on unmoderated boards in the past, I am so grateful to our beaters of the bounds for keeping the conversations here as civil as possible. Sometimes something slips through the cracks, but I know they do the best they can. I've been chided by mods a time or two myself, and I always thank them for the reminder, because I'm so grateful for fourteen years of a positive little corner of the Internet.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



shaundobson
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:20pm

Post #230 of 348 (2349 views)
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     they are going in [In reply to]  

in the movie verse apparently there are caves which by sheer luck lead to Erebor which is another stupid idea.

why didnt they just keep it like the book ?


Joe20
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 8:22pm

Post #231 of 348 (2359 views)
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     If I find something atrocious I will say so. And this is atrocious [In reply to]  

How anyone can call something like this acceptable let alone good is beyond me.

http://bitcast-a-sm.bitgravity.com/...es/hobbit-clones.png

They have literally used the same design for elves and stuck them directly in front of the camera. It's not hyperbole. It's disgraceful.


MirielCelebel
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:22pm

Post #232 of 348 (2400 views)
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     I AGREE WITH EVERYONE [In reply to]  

Literally. After watching the DOS EE and now the trailer, I've come to the conclusion, these films are awful. I will love them til the day I die, I will buy them, then buy their EE, then the boxed set, and I will swear by them but they suck. Way too much CGI.....BUT the actors and the character development, and the emotion in this trailer drove me to tears. I mean the image of Thorin and Kili and Thorin's line "I did it for them," and Kili lashing out at his uncle, it's just incredible. This will be a spectacular movie and we all just need to accept that the CGI will suck and look unrealistic and cheap but you know what? The story has always been what's most important and I don't think we'll see anything short of flawless in that department.

"The Road goes ever on..."

Writing Bliss


iduna
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:22pm

Post #233 of 348 (2326 views)
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     yes, that's what I thought [In reply to]  

Kili's standing up, giving Tauriel the runestone. He's not lying in her arms.

And they do seem to be on some kind of gravelly shore or river-bank -- I guessed the same, that Kili gave the runestone to Tauriel before going back to the Lonely Mountain.


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 8:22pm

Post #234 of 348 (2312 views)
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     *mods up* :-D // [In reply to]  

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



shaundobson
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:24pm

Post #235 of 348 (2308 views)
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     i agree that Elf army shot is a disgrace for these high movies! [In reply to]  

 


Olorin2607
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 8:24pm

Post #236 of 348 (2307 views)
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     You are kinda contradicting yourself. [In reply to]  

You should better say: For me the CGI is awful, but that does not matter since the story and the characters are beyond amazing.Wink


Darkstone
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 8:25pm

Post #237 of 348 (2289 views)
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     Story trumps FX [In reply to]  


In Reply To
For me special effects are always an adjunct to the story, a means to an end rather than the raison d’etre.


Yep. As a kid I remember missing a lot of special effects in movies like Horrors of the Black Museum (1959) and Black Sabbath (1963) because the story was soooo good I was hiding underneath the seat.Shocked

******************************************
I met a Balrog on the stair.
He had some wings that weren't there.
They weren't there again today.
I wish he would just fly away.


Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:26pm

Post #238 of 348 (2300 views)
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     OMG I KNOW [In reply to]  

The story and the acting and the art design and the costume design and the locations and the emotion and the arcs and the characters and the music and the passion behind it are so amazing!!! But there is too much CGI

SO THESE FILMS SUCK!!!!!


give me a break


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Nov 6 2014, 8:26pm

Post #239 of 348 (2288 views)
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     Creature Features! [In reply to]  

I grew up in the sixties, but I saw plenty of those fifties movies.

And for me, the effects can be whatever they are, if the storytelling is good. My kids, who are millennials, I guess, much prefer the Hobbit cartoon to the new movies. But some of that is probably nostalgia on their part.

I find that for myself, over-the-top CGI action makes me sleepy. So I hope it's balanced by plenty of actual character interaction. But there seemed to be a lot of that in the trailer too, so I'm hopeful.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Lindele
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:27pm

Post #240 of 348 (2313 views)
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     IT'S A #&%$@ [In reply to]  

TRAILER!!!!


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Nov 6 2014, 8:27pm

Post #241 of 348 (2265 views)
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     Same here, Elarie. :) / [In reply to]  

 

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Tseon
Registered User

Nov 6 2014, 8:28pm

Post #242 of 348 (2268 views)
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     XD [In reply to]  

Now that you said this, I'll have to watch it again.


Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:28pm

Post #243 of 348 (2288 views)
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     Stealth attack [In reply to]  

The official synopsis says:

"Unable to help Thorin see reason, Bilbo is driven to make a desperate and dangerous choice, not knowing that even greater perils lie ahead. An ancient enemy has returned to Middle-earth. Sauron, the Dark Lord, has sent forth legions of Orcs in a stealth attack upon the Lonely Mountain. As darkness converges on their escalating conflict, the races of Dwarves, Elves and Men must decide—unite or be destroyed. Bilbo finds himself fighting for his life and the lives of his friends as five great armies go to war."

Perhaps the Orcs built secret tunnels? I always wondered why they used STEALTH attack since such a big army marching is not that stealthy isn't it? So perhaps there are secret tunnels? In the book Tolkien mentions that there are Goblin tunnels under the whole Misty Mountains giving the Goblins the opportunity to march in large numbers without being seen by someone else. Perhaps those tunnels in the trailer are a reference to that?


"There is only one Lord of the Ring, only one who can bend it to his will. And he does not share power."


Greypilgrim
Bree


Nov 6 2014, 8:28pm

Post #244 of 348 (2271 views)
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     Gandalf wearing Narya [In reply to]  

I posted this earlier but it was removed. He's wearing it while unconscious, look at his hand!!!!


iduna
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:29pm

Post #245 of 348 (2252 views)
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     Maybe the orcs blasted the holes in the mountain [In reply to]  

It doesn't make a lot of sense for the caves to have been there all along.

If they were, then Thorin and Co. spent a lot of unnecessary time fussing over the map and the hidden door and Durin's Day, when they could have just gone in this other way.


Elanor of Rohan
Lorien


Nov 6 2014, 8:30pm

Post #246 of 348 (2240 views)
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     Dark somber mood [In reply to]  

this movie is going to be incredibly close to LOTR for atmosphere...
Too many Elves and too few Dwarves, but that seems to be the usual trailer/advertising policy for WB lately...

So no Dain, he'll come out as a bolt from the blue wih his Iron Hills dwarves... or not?

No Beorn as well.

No Balin and no Fili confronting Thorin: if that were the case it would be a huge disappointment for me...

It is a trailer, it gives us glimpses of a general idea, it wants to tell about an atmosphere...
The mood is getting darker and darker...

Best line ever: the beginning of a master plan...


iduna
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:31pm

Post #247 of 348 (2230 views)
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     Gandalf's staff [In reply to]  

Yes I noticed that! Cool


Bishop
Gondor


Nov 6 2014, 8:32pm

Post #248 of 348 (2253 views)
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     It's not about something being acceptable [In reply to]  

It's about continuity. Those Elves look EXACTLY like they did when they stood next to Thranduil in the AUJ prologue. :)


FiliSonOfDis
Rivendell


Nov 6 2014, 8:32pm

Post #249 of 348 (2250 views)
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     I have nothing against Kili [In reply to]  

I like them both as well, Fili and Kili in the book might as well be one character after all. If anything I'm more against Tauriel and Kili's romance, but Kili and tauriel as characters alone I'm totally fine with.

My main issue with Kili is that Fili is pushed aside for him, I forgave it in the first two films because I assume the switching of Fili's actor may have cut a lot of his screen time and turned Kili/Fili scenes into just Kili scenes. This time around though I want Thorin acknowledging his nephews equally, Kili can have his Tauriel scenes but the three remaining line of Durin members should be together and treated as the king and prince dynamic that they are.

And yes it's been stated they are Thorins nephews and brothers to one another it's just your average movie watcher, from the way the interactions and screen time alone have been shown, will probably think Kili is somehow more important to Throin and the bloodline as a whole since Fili has gotten about as much face time as any other dwarf while Kili has gotten more (bofur, balin, dwalin level).

still again, the posters have shown all 3 of them the chariot in the last trailer showed balin dwalin kili and fili on it and like you pointed out Thorin says he did it for "them" and i assume that meant fili and kili so hopefully Fili will get some moments here.

On another note I pointed this out in the last trailer and since it hasn't changed I'm going to have to assume it is not a CGI mistake: Oin Fili Kili and Bofur have their pre-captured by the elves clothing on when they first reach Erebor (you can see this in the scene where Thorin is in the Gold hoard and they are up on some steps with Bilbo), I assume this is the first time Thorin see's them since Lake Town is destroyed and there is a shot of his face looking in disbelief that I believe is when he first sees that they have survived. Since they have there pre-captured clothing on I'm assuming thranduil returns there belongings to them during the lake town refugee camp scene (probably as a sign of good will in an attempt to bargain with Thorin for his jewels) so I expect Thranduil or at least some of the Mirkwood elves to interact with Oin Fili Kili and Bofur before they head back to Erebor.


NoelGallagher
Rohan


Nov 6 2014, 8:33pm

Post #250 of 348 (2221 views)
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     and no Radagast again [In reply to]  

SadFrown

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