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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thranduil Appreciation Thread Part XIII
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Sep 19 2014, 4:14am

Post #126 of 202 (1584 views)
Shortcut
     LoL [In reply to]  

The quirky bits are the bestSmile



In Reply To
This cast is a lot of fun, I love'em all - but then, Sir P. selects only the best. Heart

He does have a great sense for casting.





Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk




Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Sep 19 2014, 4:21am

Post #127 of 202 (1590 views)
Shortcut
     heh [In reply to]  


In Reply To
Yes the focus is very off. And Bubba's antler seems to be alight Tongue

Thranduil seem to be aglow as well. Is it just Bubba's antler reflecting the glory of his magnificent master?



In Reply To
I always like pictures of both Thranduil and Legolas in it. Although Legolas should have been photoshopped a little smaller, because he is almost as tall als his Dad, who is riding a giant Elk!

LoL! I guessed Elven stilts or the art of levitation on Legolas' part.



In Reply To

Heart Best one yet


Definitely!HeartHeartHeart




Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk




Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Sep 19 2014, 4:22am

Post #128 of 202 (1602 views)
Shortcut
     Oh yeah [In reply to]  


In Reply To
HeartHeartHeart
I think I barely post in any other topic, unless it's somehow Thranduil related Angelic

Give or take prolly 5%?, my post count is intimately tied to the TA threadsEvilTongue

Here must go Kerewyn's excellent avatar... with a slight amendmentLaughAngelic

.







Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk




(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Sep 19 2014, 4:24am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Sep 19 2014, 4:25am

Post #129 of 202 (1589 views)
Shortcut
     Prolly browser issues? [In reply to]  

Recently had a similar conversation with Kerewyn. I reckon you're on Chrome? Try Firefox MozillaSmile Otherwise, you're well on your way to being a TORn markup expert. which isn't a shabby deal in itself cos it's transferrable to html... next next step world domination!Cool



In Reply To
Here's one to ease the pain, a little bit of FLAST to lighten the mood

LoL! Thanks Smile

.




Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk




(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Sep 19 2014, 4:27am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Sep 19 2014, 4:32am

Post #130 of 202 (1603 views)
Shortcut
     *waves* Hi Fionniel! Happy to see another former silent thread visitor [In reply to]  


In Reply To
I am one of those silent readers that had to come out of lurking mode. It only happens when the thread subject is Thranduil ( and his dad and his son). Such is their power.Heart I have read every T A thread,Yay ! I am very grateful for the hard work done here by so many generous people. The info. is fascinating and the images supplied are awesome. It makes my day every time I come to these T A threads.Smile

Pop in more often then!

1 question, that you don't have to answer: I'm curious, just because of Eowyn of Penwoods' post. Is the so-called "clutter" she mentioned a deterrence to your posting at all? Or am I right in my assumption silent thread visitors stay silent for other reasons?

.






Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk




Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Sep 19 2014, 4:40am

Post #131 of 202 (1582 views)
Shortcut
     Farnie about that Gandy/Gladdy image... and of course, Elfses [In reply to]  



And here's the featured Elves, isolated

And this beautiful image/GIF just exemplify that Alpha Male vibe. King of all that he surveysHeart





Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk




(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Sep 19 2014, 4:41am)


mariel
Lorien

Sep 19 2014, 9:56am

Post #132 of 202 (1571 views)
Shortcut
     My answer [In reply to]  

I know this question wasn't addressed to me, so I hope you'll forgive me poking my nose in. Something that occurred to me [and I may be talking complete rubbish] is that the problem some seem to have viewing the posts might be down to the size of the device it is being viewed on eg a phone? Personally I have no problems with the posts and don't find them "cluttered" and in fact fnd it useful to see the quotes with the replies attached. Makes it easier to see what is being referred to.
My own personal reasons for being a STV are that I have nothing useful, insightful or decorative to add. However, I do find this an entertaining, informative and enjoyable read and it brightens my otherwise humdrum days. IMO you deserve a standing ovation for the diligence, dedication and devotion in scouring the internet for the WW. I don't know how you [and VValar] keep finding the new material. Right, I'll shut up now.


mariel
Lorien

Sep 19 2014, 10:05am

Post #133 of 202 (1571 views)
Shortcut
     Thanks for the welcome [In reply to]  

PS - found this piece of fan art you might quite like - don't know whether you've seen it before

http://s1378.photobucket.com/...zps26fa8640.jpg.html


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Sep 19 2014, 8:34pm

Post #134 of 202 (1567 views)
Shortcut
     Nice! More thoughts... [In reply to]  

You finished chapter 20? Wow, you really did read like the wind! I’m finishing up chapter 19 now.

Quote
"From Doriath came little help". Just as the Dwarves got little help from Thranduil, so did the Feanorians get scant assistance from Thingol, though for vastly different reasons... well prima facie. Where Thranduil's stance was to not get involved in events that were foregone conclusions and risk unnecessary waste of his people's lives, Thingol's refusal stemmed from a quarrel, and stiff-necked pride. Prima facie, because I do believe, had the Dwarves not "betrayed" the contract and returned the White Gems to Thranduil, he might have felt a closer sense of alliance and be willing to proffer some assistance, even if he did not join the fray (which I still doubt he would in any case) directly.


I pretty much agree with all of this, especially that we really do have to look at it prima facie, just based on the information we have right now, because some of it could change come December!

The only thing I would add is that we still aren’t entirely sure what Thorin was talking about in the “One King to Another” scene when he said, “We came to you once. Starving. Homeless. Seeking your help. But you turned your back. You turned your back on the suffering of my people and the inferno that destroyed us! [Unspellable dwarvish curse]” Was he saying that the dwarves came to Thranduil for help a second time, sometime after Smaug had taken Erebor and he turned them away? If so, I’d say that had a lot to do with the quarrel over the White Gems and pride too.

Quote
"And every day that he looked upon the Silmaril the more he desired to keep it for ever; for such was its power." The hold of the Simaril on Thingol was probably the stronger but Thranduil's thing for the White Gems surely was very strong in itself, though as I think it was you who pointed it out, Kerewyn, it wasn't that strong that Thranduil was motivated to go himself and get them out of the Smaug hoard. But for Thingol, it was strong enough that he refused to see the logic of going to war allied with the Feanorians if it meant relinquishing his claim on the Simaril.


Also, in Thingol’s case, even more than the quarrel and pride I think the main reason he was unwilling to give up the Silmaril because he was angry about how it had basically cost him his daughter. Like, honestly, I don’t think lust for a Silmaril was even the main reason Thingol sent Beren to get it in the first place. Sure, he said he desired it, but I don’t think he ever expected to actually get it. His reaction to Beren’s initial appearance in Doriath was that of a king who is angry because his realm had been infiltrated, but it was also that of a father who was angry because of the fear that some stranger was taking his only daughter away from him. Therefore, he sent Beren after the Silmaril because he truly believed that the quest would result in Beren’s death. Well, Beren WAS successful, but only after a great deal of suffering had befallen him, Luthien and a number of other people. Then, to make matters worse (from Thingol’s perspective) Beren died and Luthien went and mourned herself to death. Even though Mandos had pity on them and they both got a second chance at life as mortals, Thingol had still, for all intents and purposed, lost his daughter for want of a gem. Elves are supposed to live forever after all.

Quote
But we see both Kings have, to put it very mildly, diplomatic issues due to whitish jewels and their state decrees in service of or as a result of those bling.

Lol. Definitely.Smile

Quote
"Thingol fortified the marches of his realm". Both Kings looked to defences, but again for vastly different reasons. While Doriath has long benefitted from the grace of Melian's power, the Doom of desiring the Silmarils changed things, and Thingol, having brought things to a head himself (as you say, Kerewyn, he's really asking for it), strengthened defences for his kingdom for the first time in a long time, in anticipation of Feanorian offence. But Thranduil's fortifications is an on-going endeavour in the face of encroaching evil from the south, and he's even had to retreat and shrink his realm's borders, having no assistance from glamours or magics of higher beings or powers. Thingol did not need to do any border redefinitions.

Good observation!

Quote
"To them Thingol gave leave to go". Despite refusing to participate himself, he allowed those who wished to go, albeit with conditions. I want to think that in addition to understanding the yearning to be part of great deeds, there's also an element of Thingol understood deep down it was a fight no one could avoid, and no Elf should really shirk the duty to "DO THE RIGHT THING". Here I see a parallel not only with Thranduil ultimately turning from his march to the Mountain to assist Lake-town, but also going back to Oropher's decision to join the Last Alliance and Thranduil's own gumption to stick it out through the entirety of the War of the Last Alliance after Oropher's fall.

This is interesting because along with what you said, I'm seeing an additional little contrast here between Thingol and Thranduil. With Thingol, 2 of his elves, Mablung and Beleg wanted to get involved in the troubles of the outside world and he gave them leave to do so. But with Thranduil, 2 of his elves, Tauriel and Legolas have decided to get involved with the outside world and they've left, but they were most certainly NOT given leave to do so!

"Home is behind the world ahead
And there are many paths to tread
Through shadow to the edge of night
Until the stars are all alight.

Mist and shadow
Cloud and shade
All shall fade
All shall fade"



VValar
Gondor


Sep 19 2014, 8:43pm

Post #135 of 202 (1509 views)
Shortcut
     No I haven't [In reply to]  

But I will certainly do so now. Thanks for the links, hopefully it'll help me a bit Smile


BlackFox
Half-elven


Sep 19 2014, 8:46pm

Post #136 of 202 (1531 views)
Shortcut
     You're welcome! [In reply to]  

Hopefully you'll get things sorted out. Smile



VValar
Gondor


Sep 19 2014, 9:00pm

Post #137 of 202 (1542 views)
Shortcut
     I know right? [In reply to]  

It just won't do to NOT include more Thranduil in the DOS EE. I really want -nay- NEED to see the two extra scenes that were filmed in the EE. My life is just incomplete without it.



In Reply To
How could they show more of those silly Dwarves and have nothing of his Royal Fabulousness.



You know that just wouldn't make any sense. But since I believe PJ and co. are still sensible people, hope remains they will include more of his Royal Fabulousness (hehe). I mean how can they not? Who wouldn't want to see more of this:

HeartHeart



In Reply To

I am one of those silent readers that had to come out of lurking mode. It only happens when the thread subject is Thranduil ( and his dad and his son). Such is their power.Heart I have read every T A thread,Yay ! I am very grateful for the hard work done here by so many generous people. The info. is fascinating and the images supplied are awesome. It makes my day every time I come to these T A threads.Smile


The power of Thranduil (and Legolas) is very great indeed if they manage to un-lurk even the most persistent silent tread reader. For in time, all STR come forth, and we may marvel at the wonder that is Thranduil (and Leggy of course) together Heart


VValar
Gondor


Sep 19 2014, 9:43pm

Post #138 of 202 (1553 views)
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     I like you argee with me so much [In reply to]  

About the banner:
Legolas looks as good as ever (which is very good obviously and sexy and prettyHeart). Thranduil however, looks absolutely stunning. HeartHeart


In Reply To
He personifies immense vitality, strength, intellect; focus and determination and great purpose. I love how he is commanding that scene with cautious, kingly confidence but not over-confidence. A character trait that, no doubt, has helped him ensure the survival of his Elves and himself over his many centuries.( Unlike his tragic dad, Oropher.)




Liking your description of him, suits him perfectly. I have nothing more to add Angelic

About the hair:
It's so rediculously good looking, it should be not even be legal.
I mean how is it possible this Elf has even longer hair than me, yet still manages to look masculine and strong and FAAAAB?
HTR Alert *THUD*
http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/...ff5c941282bc9368.jpg


VValar
Gondor


Sep 19 2014, 9:50pm

Post #139 of 202 (1528 views)
Shortcut
     You're welcome [In reply to]  

And here's another big clicky with lots of details on the handle
http://cdn.acfrg.com/...ze/2/282617d-emp.jpg


VValar
Gondor


Sep 19 2014, 9:53pm

Post #140 of 202 (1558 views)
Shortcut
     An honest mistake [In reply to]  

I think he might be misled by how good he actually looked in it. "It must be real", he must have thought, "I look so cool!".

Yes you do LP, yes you do.



VValar
Gondor


Sep 19 2014, 10:06pm

Post #141 of 202 (1518 views)
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     TA thread for the win [In reply to]  

Yes I love the accuracy of Kerewyn's avatar, very well done Kerewyn! Other forums are not our concern indeed for there can only be one who takes up all our time and attention (and rightfully so).


In that light.... let's celebrate this fact by a little bit of FEASTING (Flustered Elrond And Sassy Thranduil, Including Not-impressed Galadriel) viewing .. Hehe AngelicHeart



VValar
Gondor


Sep 19 2014, 10:20pm

Post #142 of 202 (1530 views)
Shortcut
     Actually [In reply to]  

I'm still on IE Blush
I'm not really keen on the thought of changing to another i-browser cause change means all my buttons are misplaced Crazy And I do know a good deal of HTML so I should come a long way on TORn. But I reckon it's not the fastest or simplest way of doing things so I might have to change to another i-browser someday. But it is not this day! Tongue For I need to slowly wrap my mind around having to change my i-browser for the better and therefor having to readjust to the new configuration. Oh the things we do for love Heart


VValar
Gondor


Sep 19 2014, 10:30pm

Post #143 of 202 (1548 views)
Shortcut
     LOL at the G&G art [In reply to]  

I know it's just so wrong but I had to laugh real hard. I can understand you liking the art even more since you aren't very keen on the prospect of having that scene in BOFA Wink

RE the link with closeups from the Elves.... Hadn't noticed Leggy looks a bit smudgy.
Like the look of desperation on Galadriel's face, she looks amazing. Can't say that bout Tauriel in this picture.
And I don't think I need to elaborate on Thranduil's appearance for I even made an avatar out of that picture, due to the simple fact he looks so...... Heart ! (for lack of better words) He's got it all, the look, The Hair , circlet and the armour Heart

But he doesn't look too bad in this one eitherWink



VValar
Gondor


Sep 19 2014, 10:34pm

Post #144 of 202 (1501 views)
Shortcut
     Lovely fanart [In reply to]  

Hadn't seen that before Heart




Oh and I had my first go with it and I believe I just made my first ever clicky Angelic


VValar
Gondor


Sep 19 2014, 11:00pm

Post #145 of 202 (1626 views)
Shortcut
     New Behind the Scene photo [In reply to]  

Be prepared for my second working clicky Shocked

Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart Heart


Look look! He is holding both of his swords!!
Love that look of focus.
Leggy is watching from a respectable distance, all the while thinking he is a very lucky Elf to have such a impressive father (and impressive he looks with that armour Heart)


Kerewyn
Rohan


Sep 20 2014, 12:32am

Post #146 of 202 (1513 views)
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     Oooh, what a great new image! [In reply to]  

 Heart the two swords. Looks like he has some serious leg armour going on as well.

Thranduil: "Who are you, dwarfling man, and dare you give me orders?"

PJ and his ever-present white mug Laugh He even had it at SDCC! I wonder if he has an assistant constantly running up with a top-up or freshly hot tea /coffee? (I know my own ever-present cup of tea at work goes lukewarm way too quickly - I am thinking of investing in a USB cup warmer.)



"Thou speakest of thralldom. If thralldom it be, thou canst not escape it..."


Kerewyn
Rohan


Sep 20 2014, 12:48am

Post #147 of 202 (1534 views)
Shortcut
     EE trailer and expectations [In reply to]  

I am not going to watch the EE trailer, I have decided. With the past EE releases, it has been way too much fun being surprised and delighted while actually watching the DVD, so I'm not going to look at any of it in advance. Mantra: I am patient... etc.
And I am confident we will see His Magnificence in some new EE scenes.

My delayed gratification means I haven’t actually watched DoS for months, as I refuse to buy or rent the TE. LOL - but recently it had this effect:

Was reading my new ‘Cloaks & Daggers’ Chronicles, and on the spread titled ‘Thranduil’s Cellar Props and Dressing’, I was intrigued by this quote from Evangeline Lily:

‘One of the joys of working on these films has been seeing the world of Tolkien, one of my literary heroes, brought to life. The studio sets were shockingly intricate and elaborate, and the location full of wonder and beauty. Thranduil’s wine cellar was among the many that stood out to me. I wish I could have spent so much more time in it. I had one very small scene in that cellar and I could barely focus on my work. I just kept nattering on about the amazing set. My eyes were so busy looking, my mind couldn’t keep up!’

So anyway I was like ‘it’s an EE hint!’ because I could not recall her being in the cellar! And I excitedly started to imagine extra scenes. Perhaps Tauriel comes to request of Galion something special for the Feast of Starlight (though this would not be in her job description). Perhaps she and Legolas end up there having a quiet tete-a-tete. Most likely she’d be called down there after the Dwarves’ barrel escape.

Er, then I trawled through the screencaps library, just to check - and there it was, her very small scene, on exactly that last note. Sheesh… me. BlushBlush



"Thou speakest of thralldom. If thralldom it be, thou canst not escape it..."


Kerewyn
Rohan


Sep 20 2014, 2:16am

Post #148 of 202 (1541 views)
Shortcut
     The Thingol and Thranduil discussion [In reply to]  

Finally I have time to weigh in on this! (a freelance deadline over past two evenings forced me to stay away, as I would inevitably get side-tracked and make my client cranky)

I love the comparisons you have both expanded on, and you’ve noted so many more parallels than I had. (There is so much in fact – it would be fascinating to interview the writing triad on their thought processes, on these subtle references) It’s only last night that I got up to reading of the Silm’s Fifth Battle, so it’s timely that I’m only today looking at your comparisons on this. (The ending of the Beren & Luthien story is so poignant huh? “And none saw Beren or Luthien leave the world, or marked where their bodies lay.” )

I was wondering about the actual nature of the desire that both Thingol and Thranduil have for their respective gems. But I like what you noted, Eruvandi, that lust for a Simaril wasn’t what made Thingol send Beren to get it. Fairy tales and legends are full of similar themes – kings posing impossible tasks for the suitors of their daughters. Usually to prove their worth, but in Thingol’s case, it’s like combining an impossible dream with a most likely way to get this particular suitor out of the way.

But to look more closely at and assume this ‘impossible dream’, the genuine desire for a Simaril, there's the parallel between one gem containing the light of Trees of Valinor, and the other containing pure starlight. (as least, if the White Gems are not merely metaphorically named). So neither are ordinary treasures and to possess them would almost be ‘beyond normal wealth’, but to bestow an almost religious experience (is the closest way I can think to describe) upon those who behold them.

I was thinking that Thingol, having not resided in Valinor, might want to possess an element of what the Noldor had in fact experienced, in order to be equal to them. And Thranduil in TH: “since he had not yet as great a treasure as other elf-lords of old.”

But I forgot that Thingol had actually been to Valinor as Elwe, in fact one of the first three Elves to view the Two Trees. But look what happened. In spite of the glory he saw there and praises he no doubt sang on the way back, love for Melian kept him in ME and he never journeyed back with the Noldor.

Likewise, Thranduil knows where lies the starlight, contained in gems, yet for the love of his people, he won’t risk their lives. And has Thranduil actively learnt a lesson, remembering Thingol and the Doom and loss wrought by the ancient king’s gem lust?

Nvertheless… "And every day that he looked upon the Silmaril the more he desired to keep it for ever; for such was its power." I think the Silmarils are more probably powerful than any other piece of bling(?), save the One Ring, but I wonder if the White Gems would exert a similar power over Thranduil eventually? Maybe not. I’m sure he wouldn’t like to part with them, but I can’t see him becoming corrupted by them.

Thanks for this great discussion, guys!
SmileSmile



"Thou speakest of thralldom. If thralldom it be, thou canst not escape it..."


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Sep 20 2014, 2:38am

Post #149 of 202 (1513 views)
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     Thanks, mariel! [In reply to]  

Appreciate your taking the time to share your thoughts - and my thoughts exactly! I was triggered by Fionniel's being around for all the TA threads to ask her the question. And then of course I remembered I wanted to ask you as well... after I'd logged offCrazy Typical. It's just interesting to me behaviour on the boards. The sample populations are too small to be representative for sure, but I do notice there are a few broad groups of TA readers, which I think is a microcosm of TORn, though of course not completely representative.

With all due respect, as someone who works with very specific applications and related projects/user support, I am intrigued by attitudes about learning to use something properly, due to work, as opposed to the self-motivation to do so for leisure. Right, I'll stop there before this becomes too much of a OT spiel.



In Reply To
My own personal reasons for being a STV are that I have nothing useful, insightful or decorative to add. However, I do find this an entertaining, informative and enjoyable read and it brightens my otherwise humdrum days. IMO you deserve a standing ovation for the diligence, dedication and devotion in scouring the internet for the WW. I don't know how you [and VValar] keep finding the new material. Right, I'll shut up now.

mariel, I think you are too dismissive of your participation. Please don't stop posting, even if it's just a OMGSmile

Ah, thank you for the appreciation. It's always nice to be appreciated. Frankly, having enjoyed the first 2 threads, I decided to de-lurk to say "HI" and "Thanks", and fully expected to disappear back into the mirk forthwith. Didn't look for it, but I guess I sort of OCD'd over the Thranduil appreciationEvil To be honest, I feel like I'm paying it forward with the Pretty! because I truly don't know how long I have to keep enjoying myself like this. And I hope when RL catches up and got me locked down tight, I can also come to the TAs and just get my fix of Pretty! fellow Thrall kindly and generously share.Smile

See you around, mariel!

.






Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk




Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Sep 20 2014, 3:04am

Post #150 of 202 (1493 views)
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     Yay discussion! [In reply to]  


In Reply To
You finished chapter 20? Wow, you really did read like the wind! I’m finishing up chapter 19 now.

Evil I do read fast, which is an advantage when reading light or more straightforward fare. But it's a tough thing to be when it comes to Tolkien because there's such a lot to digest and think about. I find I have to slow myself down and really READ if I don't want to get confused later, which results in wandering mind syndrome (and no, I refuse to acknowledge I have ADD), and I have to go back and forth to be sure I got it straight (which keeps for oh, 24 hours if I'm lucky) so it takes a bit to get anywhere with the SilmCrazy



In Reply To
I pretty much agree with all of this, especially that we really do have to look at it prima facie, just based on the information we have right now, because some of it could change come December!

The only thing I would add is that we still aren’t entirely sure what Thorin was talking about in the “One King to Another” scene when he said, “We came to you once. Starving. Homeless. Seeking your help. But you turned your back. You turned your back on the suffering of my people and the inferno that destroyed us! [Unspellable dwarvish curse]” Was he saying that the dwarves came to Thranduil for help a second time, sometime after Smaug had taken Erebor and he turned them away? If so, I’d say that had a lot to do with the quarrel over the White Gems and pride too.

ikr? I can't help but think, just cos of Thorin's choice of the word "once" that it might not be referring to that day Thranduil turned away and brought Bubba and his entourage away to safety. December... or maybe the DoS EE? Angelic



In Reply To
Also, in Thingol’s case, even more than the quarrel and pride I think the main reason he was unwilling to give up the Silmaril because he was angry about how it had basically cost him his daughter. Like, honestly, I don’t think lust for a Silmaril was even the main reason Thingol sent Beren to get it in the first place. Sure, he said he desired it, but I don’t think he ever expected to actually get it. His reaction to Beren’s initial appearance in Doriath was that of a king who is angry because his realm had been infiltrated, but it was also that of a father who was angry because of the fear that some stranger was taking his only daughter away from him. Therefore, he sent Beren after the Silmaril because he truly believed that the quest would result in Beren’s death. Well, Beren WAS successful, but only after a great deal of suffering had befallen him, Luthien and a number of other people. Then, to make matters worse (from Thingol’s perspective) Beren died and Luthien went and mourned herself to death. Even though Mandos had pity on them and they both got a second chance at life as mortals, Thingol had still, for all intents and purposed, lost his daughter for want of a gem. Elves are supposed to live forever after all.

I think Thingol's displeasure was also partly a feeling of insult that a mere Man dared to even desire his daughter, who's essentially of the very highest of high birth, being half Maia and the child of himself, the only Elf in all ME accounted among the Calaquendi. If the stranger had been a fellow-Elf, especially a noble, he might just be very slightly less peeved though I do think there's not many possible candidates who would not trigger him to set the fetch-ye-a-Silmaril challenge/quest/thingy. Though I think he wasn't genuinely looking to send Beren to his death, just deter him from thinking beyond his station. But then he must be uberly shaken by the "breach" in the defences. Melian did foretell that one of great doom was going to pass through the Girdle regardless. So maybe there was an element of averting the fates after all. Interesting.Smile



In Reply To
This is interesting because along with what you said, I'm seeing an additional little contrast here between Thingol and Thranduil. With Thingol, 2 of his elves, Mablung and Beleg wanted to get involved in the troubles of the outside world and he gave them leave to do so. But with Thranduil, 2 of his elves, Tauriel and Legolas have decided to get involved with the outside world and they've left, but they were most certainly NOT given leave to do so!

Yes. Though I'd think that Legolas departed with Thranduil's permission, with the sole aim of bringing Tauriel home before bad stuff happened. Him continuing on and even helping with Tauriel's adventure though, that's certainly out of line.


[Silm beyond Chappie 20 Spoiler Start]














I found it uber interesting that Thingol essentially changed his mind about Men and took Turin on as a foster-son he loved like his own. And Turin in turn turned out to be a "progressive" influence on his court, at least in terms of how war is conducted, though sadly he is the catalyst for everlasting change for Thingol and Doriath. I see a little bit of parallel in Tauriel essentially holding that same position in Thranduil's story we see unfolding in the movies, though hopefully with less depressing causes and outcomes.Unimpressed



[Silm beyond Chappie 20 Spoiler End]





Fan of both books and movies; I am a lurker by nature though it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.


Heart Thranduil Appreciation
Tis true: more appreciation threads for Thranduil exist than ME movies. Threadcount: XIII
I | II | III | IV | V | VI | VII | VIII | IX | X | XI | XII


Laugh Thrall Wars!: What business do Elves, Dwarves or Men(?) have with drooling thralls, yea, with smartphones in tow, unto the slopes of Erebor? ... oh, yes, the Hobbit's lingering in some shadows, ever ready to swoop to the hairy rescue. Take cover if you dare!. (A writing triangle with Avandel and Kerewyn)
Teh partsies: Prologue (aka the 'tater-mash of whatever came before), two, three, three-appendix: An Unexpected Flashback, four, five (new, posted 20 August)


"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBotFA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

=======
Middle-earth dispatches out of the lurkmirk



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