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Arwen's daughter
Half-elven
Feb 14 2008, 7:42pm
Post #201 of 342
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Is a book adaptation any different than a remake?
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I don't mean to hijack the thread (which has already been plenty hijacked), but I just have to ask, on the subject of Hollywood being unoriginal, is a book adaptation really any different that a remake of an older movie? The Bourne series and I Am Legend were both book adaptations and, of course, the Ocean's 11-13 were based on a remake of an earlier Ocean's 11. Are either of them really that original?
I'm with you, though, in that I tend to boycott New Line by default. If they ever manage to make another movie I want to see, I'll give them my money. Until them, they're going to have to work a little harder to get my interest.
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Zmulady
Rohan
Feb 14 2008, 7:45pm
Post #202 of 342
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Does anyone know why New Line hasn't paid up?
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Feb 14 2008, 8:02pm
Post #203 of 342
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And I agree with you on the principle of New Line doing what's right for the Tolkien family; but for me I'd not be able to promise a boycott of The Hobbit and its sequel. The argument is with New Line, yes... but I see these films as Jackson's and not New Lines. IF they lose the rights to the film(s), the same project will just move on to another company with Jackson still at the helm, and the quarrel with NL would be null and void.
Until the dust is settled and the films are in production, I'll watch and see how this all unfolds.
I am a passionate fan of Tolkien's works, and completely agree that honouring his family and their rights to have their contract with New Line fulfilled is paramount. That is what the courts are pursuing... and the Estate seems content to take that avenue to find satisfaction or they wouldn't have waited so long before pursuing it. I understand 99% of that is because they were waiting for NL to start drooling for $ from these next 2 films for the greatest impact; but I'm just getting over years of enduring several horrible threats against these films being completed... and I don't have the strength to risk my heart being broken over this yet again.
For today, I'll wait to see what happens. I cannot walk away from my dream the way things stand right now.
I appreciate you passion and your loyalty... sincerely. When the beacons are lit, I'll make a choice.
 
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
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entmaiden
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 14 2008, 8:20pm
Post #204 of 342
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over the definition of "profits", which in Hollywood accounting is whatever a particular party wants it to be. New Line will probably say that all parties have been paid what they are owed. If they didn't pay the Estate directly, I'm fairly sure New Line will claim that some middle party (the Weinsteins, or maybe Zaentz) are responsible for paying the Estate.
I seriously doubt that New Line is refusing to pay - it's most likely the disagreement is over the amount that was paid/should be paid.
Each cloak was fastened about the neck with a brooch like a green leaf veined with silver.
`Are these magic cloaks?' asked Pippin, looking at them with wonder.
`I do not know what you mean by that,' answered the leader of the Elves.
NARF since 1974.
Balin Bows
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Feb 14 2008, 8:52pm
Post #205 of 342
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I would say a book adaptation is different....
Gone With the Wind, The Wizard of Oz, The Godfather, Jaws, Grapes Of Wrath, all book adaptations.
So was TLOR, so I wouldn't say TTT or ROTK were sequels.
I guess the Bourne series is too - good point, but I was saying 'same ole, same ole - How many times can you go to the same well & expect to get folks in the seats & be original?
'I Am legend' is a book? Well, they stole it virtually verbatim from 'The Last Man On Earth' made in 1964 I believe, starring Vincent Price, let me tell you - a disease wipes out just about everone; Price goes about during the day 'killing' vampires made from the disease; Flashbacks show how Price was a scientist who fought the disease & lost his family....
Sound familure?
Sure did to me as I watched 'I Am legend'. 
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Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal
Feb 14 2008, 8:52pm
Post #206 of 342
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*sticks NARF tag on Ainu Laire*
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Welcome to the club :-)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
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"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories
leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Feb 14 2008, 8:55pm
Post #207 of 342
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Why hasn't New Line paid up?
I would guess the reason is the same as with PJ:
The Almighty $$$$$.
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overlithe64
Rivendell
Feb 14 2008, 10:26pm
Post #208 of 342
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I've not seen another NL film since.....I can't remember when...because in general I hate their film choices. TLOR being the exception to the rule of the crap they generally produce. When the ugly business came to light with PJ I stopped buying anything related and licensed by NL including my beloved Weta statues. I jsut can't give them any more of my hard earned money....It is a bitter pill that such greedy orcs are in control of my preciousss.
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overlithe64
Rivendell
Feb 14 2008, 10:41pm
Post #209 of 342
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reading between the lines....and from what we know from PJs situation....NL self-righteous as they may be, believe they have paid. The issue is contractually I believe the amount paid out is a percentage. So if NL has not been straightforward with their numbers; than the percentages are also "off". Their refusal to open their books to private audit is enough proof to me that there has been some slight of hand as far as profits go. (remember its the films, marketing, anything licensed by them creates revenue...how much of that is also subject to that percentage agreement, who knows? )
Using that line of reasoning everyone has been under paid based on a potentially false bottom line. The beauty is that they could completely lose their rights to the Hobbit....divine justice if you ask me...so they refuse to ante up....and they lose in the end...they are now in a fight to stay alive again, right back where they started before the Tolkien fandom bailed them out of their financial hole and placed them in a very nice hobbit hole.....It irritates me to no end when I think how much of my own money is involved in that Cache. ( not that I go back and not see the films 20 odd times each, or buy all the stuff I have or not go to the cons.....but still)
(This post was edited by overlithe64 on Feb 14 2008, 10:43pm)
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grammaboodawg
Immortal
Feb 14 2008, 10:42pm
Post #210 of 342
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Admins... feel free to delete this! WOW! Photobucket! What the heck are ya doin!?
Trust him... The Hobbit is coming!
"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."
TORn's Observations Lists
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MrCere
Sr. Staff
Feb 15 2008, 12:08am
Post #211 of 342
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A few here were very vocal about boycotting New Line when they were in dispute with Jackson. I think there wouldn't be much anger at all if you boycott NL for its conflict with the Tolkien estate.
However, New Line's real concerns have a lot more to do with its bosses getting let go and trying to make a movie that enough people want to see so it can pay its bills.
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
The cake is a lie
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Sunflower
Valinor
Feb 15 2008, 1:01am
Post #212 of 342
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I *knew * there was something familiar with I AM Legend. TLMOE, wasn't that an award-winning film from NZ, a couple yrs ago?
WHY are Hayao Miazaki films apparently the only things that reach American shores intact? Stupid Hollywood, that still thinks it can make something superior.; I am still dying to find a copy of the origional German The Sound Of Music, which is still hugely popular there. Apparently, our version is an almost shot-for-shot of the German origional (except for the songs and Nazi subplot of course.) Right down to the whistle summoning the marching kids into the room...
As to a Family tiff over Children of Hurin.,..... didn't know about that! More details please? I thought the only thing they were in disagreement about was the films.
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Feb 15 2008, 1:48am
Post #213 of 342
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'The Last Man On Earth' was on Turner Classic Movies back in October I believe, on those Friday 2AM 'Underground' movie shows they have. They often show Vincent Price on those, so I'm sure it will come up again.
It in no way came from New Zealand, although a picture from there could certainly have that title.
The Vincent Price picture is from 1964 I seem to recall & is Black & White. It is set in L.A. where he is - duh, TF, the last man on earth who has not suscumbed to a disease, much like Will Smith in 'Legend'.
Like Smith, he's harassed by vampire-like creatures that only come out at night. And like 'Legend', the film shows flashbacks of Price the scientist fighting the disease as it takes over the world & kills his family.
It's just so similar to 'Legend' to not have inspired it.
There's some differences, mostly in the end, & it's quite entertaining.
To me, it just shows how uninspired Hollywood is these days.
Honestly, as much as I've picked on 'Rings' at times, I can't think of anything I'd call epic since ROTK except 'Revenge of the Sith' & that is so dark & depressing, it's hardly 'fun' to want to watch - yet an esential part of the Star Wars story & kudos to George Lucas for having the guts to do it right.
Still, 'Sith' was 2005 & that's one movie in 5 years.
The other issue I have is that the star of movies nowadays is often the special effects, not actors. This has been a common complaint of many, & I just picked up on it & agree wholeheartedly.
Long gone are the days of great actors like Bogart, Cary Grant, Claude Rains Jimmy Stewart & Spencer Tracey.
Heck, even this generation's great ones like Deniro, Pacino, Nicholson & Hoffman are pushing 70.......
When they're gone, forget it.
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silneldor
Half-elven
Feb 15 2008, 3:34am
Post #214 of 342
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You are perfect to fit in around here you know:).
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I think you have a perfect sense of what is.
You feel the wonder and awe as to the depth of Tolkien. For the lot of us here, if i am permitted to say, Tollers (affectionate name of fellow colleagues at the university) is our essential 'ground of being' :). Anyone is welcome to disagree of course. *hides Bill Ferny look-alike apple nurfball behind back*.
"Tolkien, like Lewis, believed that, through story, the real world would become a more magical place, full of meaning. We see its patterns and colors in a fresh way. The recovery of a true view of the world applies both to individual things, like hills and stones, and to the cosmic - the depths of space and time itself. For in sub-creation, in Tolkien's view, there is a "survey" of space and time. Reality is captured on a miniature scale. Through stories like The Lord of the Rings, a renewed view of things is given, illuminating the homely, the spiritial, the physical, and the moral dimensions of the world."
Tolkien and C.S. Lewis- The Gift of Friendship -Duriez
May the grace of Manwë let us soar with eagle's wings!
In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of Manwë Súlimo
By El~Cugu
From the website: 'The Realm of Manwe'
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stormcrow20
Gondor
Feb 15 2008, 5:28am
Post #215 of 342
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Yes, the "Main" and "Movie" boards mostly are about the films, although Main does have regularly appearing posts that concern the book (Bilbo's Brainteasers, TIME, Middle-earth Conspiracy Theories). If I recall correctly, in some of the very threads you mention, you have been told about the "Reading Room", where Tolkien's books are the permanent topic. In fact, there is a discussion on LotR going on right now. Currently they are reading and discussing "The Ring Goes South".
Have you visited that board yet? Here is the link: Reading Room
Many people here on this forum have been reading Tolkien as long as you have, some longer, some even annually. And, I expect, we are all still discovering new things in the worlds of Tolkien, from each reading and/or from discussions here. 
I think it's good that it brings lots of new people into Tolkien's world, but by the threads produced here, we can deduce that the major interest seems to be in the fims & not the books.
People have argued that's because everything about the books has been discussed, but I disagree. I've been reading Tolkien for 31 years & am still finding new things.
"Good Morning!"
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Tolkien Forever
Gondor
Feb 15 2008, 5:46am
Post #217 of 342
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I don't know....
I found those reading room discussions so standard, you know? They're basically commentaries about what they're reading,, where I tend to go off on theories I guess - where's the 'roll's eyes' icon here? 
(for myself that is)
I saw the Conspiracy thread once or twice, but couldn't make heads or tails out of it & thought it was a joke. Maybe I should check it more often for substance?
I have a few thoughts of my own to start a couple threads, but as a parent, don't know if it's the right time to spend alot of time online right now so I may hold those thoughts awhile.......
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CAhobbit
Rohan
Feb 15 2008, 5:56am
Post #218 of 342
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into the reading more methinks. Yes there are posts that are more 'standard' as you put it but there are theories brought up all the time over there. And of course you jumping in with your own theories is always more then welcome on that board (nothing and no one is stopping you from joining in). Have at it I say.
Do not meddle in the affairs of hobbits for we can bite your kneecaps off!
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Ainu Laire
Tol Eressea
Feb 15 2008, 6:10am
Post #219 of 342
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is a joke :) I honestly do not know where it came from, but it's been around for years... you just try and come with the most ridiculous excuse possible for "the real reason" something happened. When puns get involved, the thread just dives into absolutely horrible puns :P
As for a thread, I wouldn't be afraid to start one; you don't have to be online all the time when you start a thread, maybe just check it once or twice a day (if, of course, you have the time).
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stormcrow20
Gondor
Feb 15 2008, 6:13am
Post #220 of 342
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The Conspiracy thread is indeed a joke. The point is to come up with a humorous response to the idea presented. It's a lot of fun.
I have not participated in the RR book discussions myself, I was just aware of them, so I cannot comment on their quality. There have been numerous threads on theories there in the past, I guess the book discussions are keeping everyone busy at this time.
If you have ideas for threads for the RR, go for it!
And, if you are short on time, perhaps you could spend your online time presenting and exploring your theories on the books, rather than discussing this crazy situation surrounding The Hobbit. I'll bet it would be more fun, at least.
"Good Morning!"
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Feb 15 2008, 6:32am
Post #221 of 342
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I honestly do not know where it came from, but it's been around for years... I was reading through the TORN Humor Files a few years ago and saw a conspiracy thread that Corsair had inadvertantly started - asking about the scratch on Arwen's cheek and how it might have got there. (This was before FOTR was released.) Other TORNadoes ran away with the idea and came up with some right oddball answers ... and I thought it would make for a good regular piece of lunacy on the boards. It been going for about two and a half years now, believe it or not...
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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AinurOlorin
Half-elven
Feb 15 2008, 7:05am
Post #222 of 342
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I . . . won't boycott the hobbit film. I cannot, I am sorry
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I might se it only once if I find Gandalf's magic mostly gone missing again, I might boycott the bridge if I find out it is an all Aragorn all the time movie that doesn't really bridge anything. But. . . not the Hobbit itself.
I am entirely with Sunflower on that. Desperate to see it, and sooner than later. A date has been stamped in my heart. Better that they said nothing than to give false hope.
Yet, I agree that it will probably still be settled sooner than later. TW/NL was willing to pay Peter 40 million just to keep him involved, and you know it wasn't because they loved Peter too much, or laboured under the notion that no one else could manage a good adaptation. . . it was because they feared that either Saul would hold things up somehow, or that many fans would be upset and possibly not for over their billions. Now they stand to loose the rights if they don't settle up and soon? They will pay that 150 to 200 million. And maybe, as a bonus, they will give Christopher the right to have some input in the filming process. Not the final say, of course, but at least the option of coming on set, of seeing the scripts before filming begins, and of offering insights and criticisms. It could make a big difference. Could insure that we Get the appropriate amount of blue'flame "eye-openers" from old Gandalf.
But they are not going to let it slip away. If they have to pay an added 200 million now, bringing the total film cost to about 400 million, but with an almost sure gauruntee of a 2 billion plus dollar return in ticket sales alone, and an additional several billion from dvd sales. . . they will pull things together, and soon. Consider the stocks. Bewkes wants to drive up share prices, and rumour feuls that as much as sales. If TW looses the rights to the most major thing they have in THe Film department, even bigger than the Harry Potter Films (which have sold less not more with each film, in direct contrast to how the LOTR films did), share prices dive for certain. The Moment the Hobbit becomes a definite, with named Producer and script in motion, and a release date in the near future (i.e. at least by 2011), the share prices go up. Period. The company starts making money on the probabiltiy of making money. I cannot see them letting that just slip away.
"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"
"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor
Feb 15 2008, 7:21am
Post #224 of 342
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Well, that was an interesting experience in board glitches before it timed out. //
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************************************
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Starling
Half-elven
Feb 15 2008, 8:34am
Post #225 of 342
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is a 'last man standing' film which was made in NZ in 1985, starring the wonderful Bruno Lawrence. The main character meets up with two others, and then I think it takes on some kind of nuclear threat theme, but I haven't seen it for years, so can't remember exactly. It's quite eerie and worth a look.
Incidentally, it's directed by Geoff Murphy, he of the burning chair LOTR fame.
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