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New Line Cinema Sued by Tolkein Estate (over film profits...)
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fryguy34167
The Shire

Feb 15 2008, 9:49am

Post #226 of 342 (12563 views)
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Settlement Possibilities [In reply to] Can't Post

You are assuming here that money will be enough to get the Tolkien estate to settle. I am not so sure about that. The estate does not in fact have to settle. They seem to be in a strong enough position to slam the door on any film production by New Line. That does not mean that someone won't make this film, but I do not believe that it will be New Line. I think New Line is on life support right now and this may be the pulling of the plug that we are witnessing.


Windfola
The Shire


Feb 15 2008, 10:22am

Post #227 of 342 (12544 views)
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yup, that's what I'm thinking [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
That does not mean that someone won't make this film, but I do not believe that it will be New Line.


Saul Zaentz and MGM will still have the rights to the movie, even if NL loses them.

To be honest I hope good things will come out of this whole situation (at least good in my opinion)

-eventually the second movie will never get made, you know, I'm not really a purist, I like fanfiction, it could be quite an interesting film... but do I really need or want to see it : NO

-it will be the end of NL and a warning sign for other studios.

-the delay will put Jackson back in the director's chair

-the "Hobbit" could finally be done without the burden of constant money talk and lawsuits.


(This post was edited by Windfola on Feb 15 2008, 10:30am)


fryguy34167
The Shire

Feb 15 2008, 10:36am

Post #228 of 342 (12544 views)
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Time will tell [In reply to] Can't Post

I am still not so sure that the film rights will revert to Zaentz and MGM yet either. I am curious to see the actual complaint filed and will try to get my hands on it sometime in the next week. I do in fact think that the movie will eventually get made. I for one, however, hope that PJ and Fran have absolutely nothing to do with it. Well I would have no problem with PJ and Fran making the film IF Christopher Tolkien were there to keep them honest and stop them from making any more ill-advised changes to Tolkien's stories. I realize that with all the PJ and Fran fanboys and girls here I will likely take a lot of flak, but I think they did a terrible job with the script and story with the LOTR movies. Other things I though were truly well done but I do not think that they would be the best to film the Hobbit. Others out there are much more capable of making a good film that would stay true to Tolkien's vision. Just my opinion.

To clarify, I think Peter Jackson did some things amazingly well and some things very poorly. That is what frustrates me about these films so much. He could have made the perfect and definitive for all time LOTR films. Instead he made films that in some ways did a wonderful job of capturing the spirit of middle earth and in other ways completely went off the deep end and changed the story in a very negative and unnecessary way.


(This post was edited by fryguy34167 on Feb 15 2008, 10:44am)


Windfola
The Shire


Feb 15 2008, 10:52am

Post #229 of 342 (12529 views)
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I read something [In reply to] Can't Post

on a different message board that the complaint is "without prejudice to the rights of innocent parties" or something like that, I'm not a lawyer.. , so I can only base my opinion on what I read on the internet.. Tongue


Quote
I for one, however, hope that PJ and Fran have absolutely nothing to do with it. Well I would have no problem with PJ and Fran making the film IF Christopher Tolkien were there to keep them honest and stop them from making any more ill-advised changes to Tolkien's stories.

Oh please the last thing any filmmaker needs while working on this movie is Ch. Tolkien breathing down his neck.. Tongue


fryguy34167
The Shire

Feb 15 2008, 11:00am

Post #230 of 342 (12531 views)
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well not in this case [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ and Fran obviously need someone breathing down their necks. Otherwise we might be subjected to more of Liv Tyler, Frodo trying to send Sam home, a week-kneed Aragorn who doesn't want to be king, elves showing up at Helm's Deep and a sword that was supposed to be carried around by one of the main characters for his entire adult life not showing up in his hands until just before he enters the paths of the dead.


Windfola
The Shire


Feb 15 2008, 11:19am

Post #231 of 342 (12524 views)
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Well you can’t make everyone happy.. [In reply to] Can't Post

I actually really like those changes you mentioned (especially elves at Helms Deep and a more humble Aragorn), as opposed to some other changes (Gandalf hitting Denethor with his staff is were my inner purist started to scream Crazy )…

btw... I’m all for changes in the Hobbit (as long as it’s still a tale for children with dark moments and undertones and not a flat out dark and grim movie) But the bridge movie is when my revisionism stops, that’s why I’m hoping it never gets made.


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Feb 15 2008, 12:30pm

Post #232 of 342 (12504 views)
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CT involved [In reply to] Can't Post

The more I read from you the more I get the feeling that you would only be happy with a movie directed by Christopher Tolkien himself and the book filmed word by word. Only I think it would not be a good movie, because that is not how movies work - and you might be surprised because even *that * may not meet your expectations, because *everyone* has his own opinions and images. One of the reasons LotR is so successful is just that every reader has these own images and POVs on everything, and no matter whoever is making the movie in the end, you will never be happy with everything.

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Tolkien Forever
Gondor

Feb 15 2008, 12:34pm

Post #233 of 342 (12524 views)
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What Scar? [In reply to] Can't Post

Arwen has a scar on her cheek?

My first thought is that it came from hitting a branch while running through the woods that suddenly pop up while she & Frodo are escaping the Black Riders.......

"If you want him, come and claim him!"

"But I forgot the bagagge claim ticket at Minas Morgul."

Woosh.......

(sound of water sweeping Black Riders and horses away..........) Shocked


fryguy34167
The Shire

Feb 15 2008, 1:36pm

Post #234 of 342 (12490 views)
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Actually [In reply to] Can't Post

Actually I would be happy if CT were not involved as long as someone actually did a good job with the story and script. PJ and Fran, unfortunately did not do a good job with that. That is my only real complaint about the LOTR films, although it is a rather large complaint. I would assume that all of us who had read the books while growing up were desperately hoping for the LOTR to be made into a movie. I admit to being one of those, This does not however, mean that I am so greatful that it was made into a movie that I am willing to overlook the glaring mistakes made by the film makers. All I really wanted from the LOTR films was for them to be true to Tolkien's story and vision. These films, unfortunately, strayed greatly from that, and it left many fans of the book unsatisfied.


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Feb 15 2008, 2:14pm

Post #235 of 342 (12500 views)
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Oh well [In reply to] Can't Post

You didn't like the films made by PJ. Okay. Your own problem. BUT I think if anyone other would have made them, they would have been made in Hollywood in typical Hollywood style and even more changed than what we got to see. And there would have been no Weta, nor the thousands of hand-made props, but re-use of things made for other movies ... And frankly, I'd never watched them at all.

FYI, I was not happy with some of the changes myself at all, but I can live with them, because the movies on the whole were great. I had expected much worse, as most films I watched made after books I know were much more changed - I remember watching a film and not recognising the story, though I had read the book only weeks before. Considering what a complicated story LotR is, I was truly amazed how few changes they made. I really never expected them to stay true to the book.

But of course, I am able to enjoy book and movies as two different things, and just have started another re-read of the book, this time with more of an eye for differences to the movie and appreciating *both* ways.

But I know we will never agree about this.

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


fryguy34167
The Shire

Feb 15 2008, 2:27pm

Post #236 of 342 (12490 views)
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Its all good [In reply to] Can't Post

Its all good. We do not need to agree on this and I am happy that the movies mean so much to you. Anything that gives good people joy is something I can find happiness in. Lets just say I love the books and have a love hate relationship with the films. I will agree with you and most of the fans that the acting, the scenery and the props were wonderful. The place where I end up disagreeing with most of the film fans is with regard to the changes to the story made in the script that I feel hurt the film's overall impact.


Peredhil lover
Valinor

Feb 15 2008, 4:04pm

Post #237 of 342 (12478 views)
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*grin* [In reply to] Can't Post

Love hate relationship seems to fit pretty well Wink

Glad to know you agree at least with scenery and props, as they're really great and Weta did work so hard on the props. We can agree to agree on that and to disagree mostly on the changes Smile

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


bettybalin
The Shire

Feb 15 2008, 4:42pm

Post #238 of 342 (12477 views)
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I am Legend, revealed! [In reply to] Can't Post

Err... both movies are based on the same book, written in 1954. So, no, the book didn't steal the plot from the movie, nor the Will Smith movie steal the plot from the Vincent Price movie. It's just a remake

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Am_Legend_(film)

I've read the book (novella, really), and didn't care for it much, but it WAS groundbreaking for it's time. I really liked the plot and the concepts raised, but the writing style irked me.


Tolkien Forever
Gondor

Feb 15 2008, 4:56pm

Post #239 of 342 (12506 views)
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The 'Crux of the Buiscuit' [In reply to] Can't Post

... as Frank Zappa once said, is that, as you say, Peredhil Lover, that Peter Jackson does a better job than anyone else would've done......

How do we know that?
Did anyone else get a chance?

I've been killed for 'bashing' PJ, so let me state right off: I like the films; I consider it (one long film) in my 'hundred greatest fims ever'. However, we must see if we are even somewhat objective that PJ took great liberties with both the storyline & the 'essence' of Tolkien's character's from the Books, agreed?
If you disagree with that statement, I can get out my laundry list........

I certainly realize that a movie cannot follow a book verbatim, but changing characters wholesale to fit the '90's instead of being noble and/or Christlike (in some cases) isn't necessary either & I think this is what turned off many hardcore Tolkien fans that dislike (or even like) the movies.

But saying that PJ is 'the only man for the films who can do them right' is silly to many of us.......

There are so many great directors out there:
George Lucas not only directed Star Wars, he created it.
Steven Speilberg's record speaks for himself - Jaws, Saving Private Ryan, Schindler's List, ET (if you like that), etc.
The two of them did Raiders of the Lost Arc together......

To think either of these guys couldn't do justice to The Hobbit is, well, not looking fairly at their careers, now is it?


Tolkien Forever
Gondor

Feb 15 2008, 5:15pm

Post #240 of 342 (12463 views)
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I Am legend Book [In reply to] Can't Post

That's interesting about the book - you learn something new every day....

However, it still 'reeks' of remake, ya know?


Annael
Immortal


Feb 15 2008, 5:59pm

Post #241 of 342 (12459 views)
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you mean you haven't yet encountered [In reply to] Can't Post

UUTs?

Utterly Unsupported Theories - a staple of TORN discussions. If you've got some, by all means trot them out!

Have you checked out http://www.theonering.com/ ? I wonder if you might not be happier on that board than here.


Only the mediocre are always at their best.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Feb 15 2008, 6:07pm

Post #242 of 342 (12457 views)
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Not scar - scratch. [In reply to] Can't Post

And yes, it's the cut on her cheek from a branch when she's riding Asfaloth.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded b*****d with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor


Feb 15 2008, 6:14pm

Post #243 of 342 (12451 views)
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Just what I was saying! Well, before my post was et... =) // [In reply to] Can't Post



Peredhil lover
Valinor

Feb 15 2008, 6:36pm

Post #244 of 342 (12452 views)
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Oh please [In reply to] Can't Post

In the post you answered to, I said that I don't agree with certain changes as well, but it simply doesn't matter enough to me to go nuts about it, because the rest of the movies makes up for it IMO. Does that suffice?

You didn't completely understand what I meant anyway, or probably I wasn't clear enough. It may be another director would have done a good job, too - we'll never know. My train of thought above was more that, if someone other than PJ had made LotR, the movies would not have been made in NZ and not by Weta, but by some Hollywood studio, and I simply doubt they'd gone to such lengths with costumes and props - and THAT is why I am so glad PJ got the job. No other big studio would have hired Weta for the job prior to their success with LotR.

As for Lucas and Star Wars, that's not the best example. Lucas did neither the screenplay nor the directing for 'The Empire Strikes Back' and 'Return of the Jedi'. He only wrote the story, like Tolkien. Look at imdb for it. And though the original three movies were among the few I saw and loved, I never got to more than glimpses of the prequels before losing interest completely. The bit I saw seemed rather weak. And I know a lot of people who felt the same, so it was not only my disinterest in most movies.

I do not suffer from LotR obsession - I enjoy every minute of it.


Arwen's daughter
Half-elven


Feb 15 2008, 6:42pm

Post #245 of 342 (12439 views)
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It's worse than you think [In reply to] Can't Post

I Am Legend was also adapted for a Charleton Heston movie called The Omega Man in 1971. IMDB also shows a short movie called Soy leyenda adapted from it in 1967. I've only seen the most recent adaptation (and can tell you it's only loosly based on the book). But which movie/book is it remaking?



My LiveJournal
My Costuming Site
February's Screencap of the Day Schedule


Tolkien Forever
Gondor

Feb 15 2008, 7:06pm

Post #246 of 342 (12434 views)
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Scratch [In reply to] Can't Post

That was a good guess that it was from riding with Frodo...... Cool

BTW: I still think George Lucas deserves Kudos for coming up with the idea for Star Wars....

It's quite a story over 6 films despite people's likes or dislikes of the prequels. Fall & redemption, just like Man......

And, if you are old enough to remember 'Star Wars' before it was called 'IV: A New hope', that was something, let me tell you, nobody had ever seen anything like it in terms of special effects - we were used to 'Lost In Space' & 'Star Trek' on TV.......

I saw it a couple weeks after it came out in a nearly empty theatre on a weekday afternoon.
It still ranks up there with the greatest films ever IMHO.
To just see the whole story through to completion is something if you ask me.
I personally think 'Return of the Jedi' is every bit as silly as 'The Phanton Menace'. Is Jar-Jar binks any dumber an idea than the Ewoks?
'Attack of the Clones' is quite entertaining & a good mystery to boot. 'Sith' is so dark that it's not fun to watch, but a good film. I understand that the whole Annikan/Padme love affair is full of laughable, cheesey lines, but the 'OT' has it's share of cheesey lines too.

I better stop going on about Star Wars or go turn back into Obi-Gyn Kenobi at the Star Wars site..... Wink


Annael
Immortal


Feb 15 2008, 11:13pm

Post #247 of 342 (12419 views)
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oh, there's plenty of us who remember [In reply to] Can't Post

we've got quite a contingent of over-50-somethings here.

I don't worship Lucas like you do, but yes, "Star Wars" was a quantum leap ahead in film-making at the time. Those of us who saw it in the theater first-run had an experience that can only be compared to, perhaps, seeing the first "talkie", or my mother's experience of going to see "The Wizard of Oz" and gasping at the moment Dorothy opens the door in Oz and walks out into color.


Only the mediocre are always at their best.

* * * * * * * * * * * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


Eleventy1
Registered User

Feb 15 2008, 11:54pm

Post #248 of 342 (12425 views)
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I have to say .... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank goodness George Lucas had nothing to do with these movies. He's already mentioned if he did Lotr, he would've done everything CG. Spooky!

It tough realising there are going to be further delays in producing The Hobbit. I'm with whoever mentioned earlier that if the rights revert back to CT, The Hobbit movie will never see the light of day. I don't see that he's done anything to make me believe otherwise. Maybe Jackson didn't get it right all of the time with Lotr but he got it right often enough that people fell in love with the story and life was injected back into these books sending sales through the proverbial roof and ultimately one would've thought that is what Toklien Estate would want ....


Tolkien Forever
Gondor

Feb 16 2008, 12:05am

Post #249 of 342 (12421 views)
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Worship [In reply to] Can't Post

Boy, I 'worship' George Lucas?

Let me tell you I got killed for saying that some 'fans' of Peter Jackson, the types that post here that he & only he can make the Hobbit or it will stink, or rant & rave if you say ONE bad word about TLOR films, etc, that those types were 'PJ worshipers' - so I say I like Star Wars & now I'm a George Lucas worshiper?

I guess I should be offended too? Wink

Well, I'm not - I think it's funny.
Too bad I wasn't given the same grace when I expressed my opinions regardless of how some people preceived them. Unsure

But listen, we've been over this & I don't want to go back, I just find it ironic I'm called a 'worshiper', the very term that got ME in such hot water here 2 weeks back........

But, like I said, I'm not the least bit offended by ANY of this - being called a 'Lucas Worshipper' or people's reactions & I think it's all too trivial in the scope of life for me to be bothered getting angry about.

BTW: I'm not that crazy about Lucas.......

I think the 'Indiana Jones' series is somewhat over-rated.
First one's very good, but a silly ending (anyone who knows anything about the Arc of the Covenant knows The God of Isreal would never come out like a ghost. In fact, the only time folks were killed by it were by touching it in an irreverant manor when it was closed), 2nd one forget, third one's good - my $.02 of course.

PS: Please don't think I'm trying to start a flame war. I'm not. I just find it highly ironic, that's all.


Starling
Half-elven


Feb 16 2008, 1:09am

Post #250 of 342 (12432 views)
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Excuse my ignorance, but what is NARF? [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't find any reference to it is my TORn educational reference materials Unsure

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