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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Thranduil Appreciation Thread Part V
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Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 2 2014, 6:20am

Post #76 of 234 (6208 views)
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     exactly [In reply to]  


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Whenever I get brave and just do a general search for Thranduil on any site that contains fan art, I only do it when no one else can see the screen

Shadows in the dark, preciouss Tongue




Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 2 2014, 6:37am

Post #77 of 234 (6206 views)
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     The welcome is no less =o) [In reply to]  

Glad to see you here, Grey Elf Smile



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I think the reason why LP's forehead furrow works so well on him is because it looks as if his pronounced philtrum ("filtrum?"), that beautifully sculpted groove that graces his upper lip, reappears between his brows.

That's a really interesting comparison & observation. Almost lyrical.



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I think it's interesting that he has features like the furrow and the heavy eyebrows that aren't in themselves traditionally considered marks of beauty, yet on him they are and give him a distinctive look.

Definitely a perfect combination of unconventional beauty Smile And he uses them to great effect. He's so dorky at times in Pushing Daisies, but the same brows utilised to different effect in other roles. (Would paste a few choice pics here but I should get going)




Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Kerewyn
Rohan


Jun 2 2014, 12:16pm

Post #78 of 234 (6203 views)
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     An alternative symmetry, and "young Ned" [In reply to]  

Nice point. If facial symmetry (usual left matching right) is a sign of beauty, LP's face has an unusual kind of vertical symmetry.

Not to mention he has natural eyelashes to make a girl green with envy.

While we're on looks... LP as a child. There's the image of him as a five year old that's appearing on the press for HACF, to demonstrate how old he was in the year that HACF was set. I can't see older LP in that face... well maybe I can a little. But here I just wanted to make the point that the young actor who plays young Ned in PD is so adorably suitable. That little guy's face has the same features - the eyes, the lashes, the bow-shaped lips. There's a scene in PD where young Ned's face morphes into older Ned's face and it's a perfect seamless blend. Heart



(again, sorry for not posting pics. When it's late and I'm tiredish, I don't have enough patience for all the pic-hosting rigmarole) Unimpressed

'People don't know where I begin and latex ends, which has always been an ambition for me.' (Martin Freeman)


Kerewyn
Rohan


Jun 2 2014, 1:13pm

Post #79 of 234 (6190 views)
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     The spotlight, not the scrutiny [In reply to]  

I like that he's most likely such a down-to-earth guy that he feels he has nothing interesting to say about himself. "Little me is very uninteresting", he says, and "Trust me, if had something interesting to say about myself, I would,"
But you see, that in itself is interesting to me, as a fan. His normalness, his disinterest in engaging in celebrity status, while still loving his work - the kind of work that can easily bring about celeb status, if you're good at what you do. Putting yourself in the public eye is always going to fuel curiosity. So taking a hard line on his privacy is admirable and deserves to be respected. Even though I'd love to know more about him. But not if he doesn't want me to. *conflicted*


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(from the article) “I was shocked at how much I saw myself in that character,” Pace says. “I worked on transforming myself so much for that role so I assumed I wouldn’t recognize myself, but I saw so much more of myself in Calpernia than I ever anticipated. So, I’m already revealing more of myself than I’m comfortable with.”


Oh go on, bait us, why don't you Lee! Evil


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I also agree with him that sometimes knowing too much about about an actor's personal life can distract from how believable you find the character because you just have trouble not seeing the actor. It's like with the Hobbit and LOTR movies. I wasn't familiar with the vast majority of the actors when I first saw them so I was able to appreciate the character for the character and not get distracted the actor.


This is a factor that may have "spoilt" LOTR for a number of New Zealanders. I could never ever see Celeborn and Haldir as anyone but Marton Czokas and Craig Parker, who both starred for years together in NZ's long-running hospital soap, Shortland St, along with John "Hama" Leigh (who dated a friend of mine.) Likewise Harry "Isildur" Sinclair. Very familiar from other ventures. But to the majority of the world, these are brand new faces.

LP was a brand new face to me in TH. So it's like Thranduil exists for me as a real person, with LP standing behind that - if that makes sense.

'People don't know where I begin and latex ends, which has always been an ambition for me.' (Martin Freeman)

(This post was edited by Kerewyn on Jun 2 2014, 1:20pm)


Kerewyn
Rohan


Jun 2 2014, 1:38pm

Post #80 of 234 (6177 views)
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     Thanks again for the goodies, Lurker [In reply to]  

I've just finished clicking through them all (minus the podcast which I'm saving) and it's been... quite a ride. There've been a few giggles out loud, some head-shaking at the obsessiveness of tumblr-wranglers, and sighs with admiration at stunning fan art - and some nice angles I hadn't seen before. (like that one with a silhouette of Thranduil and Elrond meeting at sunset with their various steeds).

I'll be surprised if I don't dream about LP tonight. I did last night. BlushBlush

Oh alright then... before anyone asks.

I dreamed I was his makeup artist and first day on the job, I was nervous as hell. Then I found I didn't have some special application sponges that I'd need, so I went racing off anxiously to find some. I came back to find my sister had stepped into my shoes and taken over, had LP in the chair and was expertly doing his face while chatting away. I was about as jealous as possible. (er.... does this reveal any deep-seated feelings about my sister? Unsure )

/oversharing

'People don't know where I begin and latex ends, which has always been an ambition for me.' (Martin Freeman)


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Jun 2 2014, 6:40pm

Post #81 of 234 (6166 views)
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     I dream of LP [In reply to]  


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I'll be surprised if I don't dream about LP tonight. I did last night. BlushBlush

Hehe. You're not the only one! I didn't dream about him last night but I've had a couple of dreams with LP in them this past month. Unfortunately they were pretty vague and short and I don't remember much about them other than that he was present. Unsure

I do remember this one Thranduil dream I had awhile back, but it was a little creepy because my brain was mixing LP's movie rolls and, although he looked like Thranduil, he was a vampire and he and the other Twilight vampires were hunting me through this scary, dark mansion and I couldn't get away.Frown I have no idea where the heck that came from since I don't care anything about Twilight, although I'm ashamed to admit I did watch the movies out of curiosity about what the big deal was, but I didn't like them, never watched them again, and that was over a year before I had this dream. I guess I must have been subconsciously stressed about something (maybe I had a big research paper due?) since I've heard that dreams about running from something can mean that you're worried about an unstoppable future event. To say the least, I woke up feeling freaked out and it actually took me awhile to like Thranduil again because I had to work to get vampire Thrandy and elf Thrandy separated in my mind.Crazy

Sometimes, as obsessed as I am with TH and LOTR, I'm surprised that I don't have more ME themed dreams than I do, but it seems like if I'm going to have a really vivid dream that I'll remember when I wake up, it usually has to be stress or excitement induced. That means it'll be about/reflective of the source of stress or excitement, not ME. *sigh*

/oversharing too Someone could probably write a whole psych paper on the two of us.Wink

"When life won't play along
And right keeps going wrong
And I can't seem to find my way
I know where I am found
So I won't let it drag me down
Oh, I'll keep dancing anyway"
~Move by MercyMe


Kerewyn
Rohan


Jun 3 2014, 7:23am

Post #82 of 234 (6136 views)
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     I guess it’s time to confess my secret Tauriel appreciation [In reply to]  

My impression from these boards is that Tauriel is not popular – she’s seems to be viewed as an unnecessary, non-canon side character whose friendship with Kili is also unnecessary, whose ‘healing scene’ is soppy dross, whose on-screen story also promotes ‘more Legolas’ and cuts into time that could be better given to fleshing out other characters eg our beloved Elven King.

I agree that it’s disappointing if, as a side-plot, she is going to steal time from other plots. After all, this is a movie, these are PJ’s decisions, and there are obviously timing limitations, so that not everything can be included.

But putting this aside for the moment, and to see her newly created story as an existing arc in its own right… I rather like Tauriel, and seeing how her relationship plays out with the each of those main characters she interacts with. I always had a bit of a girl-crush on Evie Lilly and watched every single episode of Lost, mainly for her (and *cough* Josh Holloway), so I was super keen when I heard she’d been cast, and was excited for the moment when she arrived on screen. (being not yet enThralled at that point.) Being more of a hobbit-fancier previously, she was the first Elf I felt interested in following. Oh wait, apart from Arwen and Galadriel. OK (light bulb moment), looks like I preferred female elves until His Highness.

I guess, again, I am benefitted by not having much book-knowledge. Sure, I read TH but not until 2004, post LOTR. It was not a beloved childhood book for me. Likewise, I’m only learning from these boards in the last 5 or so months just who Thranduil is, what background he has that could have been alluded to, and consequently, how he may have been ‘robbed’. But too late – by the time this is soaking in, I am already sold on Tauriel and wouldn’t wish her away for anything. Consequently, though I am not a Legolas fan per se, I want to see how his story with Tauriel plays out. Coz it’s a thwarted love story, and the romantic in me likes those.

I find myself feeling quite interested in Tauriel’s experience, and it opens up questions, possibly that I might think about fanfic’ing.
How does she fit in with other Mirkwood female elves? Does she have any girl buddies she hangs with? Is she nervous when she approaches Thranduil in his chambers, or is reporting to him a regular thing? Did she play with Legolas in childhood, or look up to him as a brotherly type? Are her parents still alive? What do Bard’s daughters think of her – will she inspire them? Does she have any pretty floaty robes for evening wear, or does she prefer practical hunting garb? What of her own feelings for Legolas? And how would Thranduil react if she and Legolas eloped? (if indeed elves do stuff that rash)

Thinking of her scene with Thranduil… when I first saw the trailer, I had a different interpretation. As you know, part of Thranduil’s vocal was edited out, and what we got was. “Legolas has grown very fond of you. Don’t give him hope where there is none.” From this, I concluded that “there is none” meant that she was possibly stringing Leggy along, and didn’t return his feelings.. And that the look on her face was because she realised she’d been ‘sprung’. Legolas’s dad could read how she really felt.
And so I approached DoS with this potential storyline of unrequited love for poor Leggy at the back of my mind. Was pleasantly surprised to learn otherwise, because it now becomes the thwarted love story, a ‘forbidden union’ class-thing.

Anyway. Those are my probably-unshared-by-anyone thoughts. Evil

Maybe this should have its own thread out on the boards, but I just like chatting to y’all Thralls, in context of our little corner of TORn. Angelic Have there been any Tauriel appreciation that I’ve missed? Or is the prejudice such that there simply haven’t been any?


'People don't know where I begin and latex ends, which has always been an ambition for me.' (Martin Freeman)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 3 2014, 7:38am

Post #83 of 234 (6187 views)
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     Pics... for analysis of course (click on them to go to the source) [In reply to]  






Lashes, and cheekbones Heart



Some smoulder and furrow



Young Ned (vs the Pie-maker, most approximately similar look I could find)

For comparison, the kid LP pic is here. For more fun, there is a OB + LP kid pic compare here. (Both are from the Woodlands Weekend links)


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 3 2014, 7:48am

Post #84 of 234 (6094 views)
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     Truly [In reply to]  


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His normalness, his disinterest in engaging in celebrity status, while still loving his work - the kind of work that can easily bring about celeb status, if you're good at what you do. Putting yourself in the public eye is always going to fuel curiosity. So taking a hard line on his privacy is admirable and deserves to be respected. Even though I'd love to know more about him. But not if he doesn't want me to. *conflicted*

And of course, you can't unknow someone once you've seen him in a movie or whatever but to me, while I am also conflicted in not knowing TongueCrazy, I do appreciate that unknowing when I am watching a show. I do prefer not having stuff like the latest gossip bit about a particular actor popping up at an inopportunate time and taking me out of the story as I watch a show with said actor in it.



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This is a factor that may have "spoilt" LOTR for a number of New Zealanders. I could never ever see Celeborn and Haldir as anyone but Marton Czokas and Craig Parker, who both starred for years together in NZ's long-running hospital soap, Shortland St, along with John "Hama" Leigh (who dated a friend of mine.) Likewise Harry "Isildur" Sinclair. Very familiar from other ventures. But to the majority of the world, these are brand new faces.

I suppose no matter how private a person is, depending on the work they do, there'll be situations like this. Smile I guess I'm lucky then, in not living in places like LA or Wellington. Otherwise though, why am I not living there?! UnsureTongue



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LP was a brand new face to me in TH. So it's like Thranduil exists for me as a real person, with LP standing behind that - if that makes sense.

Perfectly! I have the same feeling.


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 3 2014, 7:53am

Post #85 of 234 (6114 views)
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     You are most welcome! [In reply to]  


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I've just finished clicking through them all (minus the podcast which I'm saving) and it's been... quite a ride. There've been a few giggles out loud, some head-shaking at the obsessiveness of tumblr-wranglers, and sighs with admiration at stunning fan art - and some nice angles I hadn't seen before. (like that one with a silhouette of Thranduil and Elrond meeting at sunset with their various steeds).

There is some pretty good stuff out there. Plus it's fun to share, especially the laughs... and the thuds Smile (Did you like the one featuring the Red Bandit's arms? Heart)

LOL and envy at your dream - I can never remember dreams of favourite things, unless they're in very bizarre weird-the-hell out of me scenario which wake me or near waking time anyway. But nope, no memory of Thranduil so far. Is there a resident Freud who can help with interpreting the sibling feels?



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Jun 3 2014, 7:54am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 3 2014, 7:56am

Post #86 of 234 (6134 views)
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     LOL Eruvandi... [In reply to]  

hope you get the paper over and done with soon, and get back with the programme here Smile


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 3 2014, 8:47am

Post #87 of 234 (6114 views)
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     I would like her, in a different story =o) [In reply to]  

or in a different situation. As in, I think you're right about her acceptance being influenced by pre-conceived notions/ideas/knowledge. I did mention to vanima, who is more receptive towards Tauriel in TH like you, in one of the earlier threads that I don't dislike Tauriel as a character but the decisions that put her in the movie and the situations she gets to work through.

As I read your post, I was also thinking about my viewpoint, since your experience with the movies and the books are similar to mine , and I read and write fan-fic too, or I used to. So I am no purist; I'm hardly a well-educated Tolkienate, esepcially since I am also lapsed in my ME reading and movie watching Unsure I think I have the answer now: I am rather vested in my interest in ME (and yes, I confess, Thranduil Blush) due to my interest/reading/research/ficcing. Some of the research was in fact due to the complaints I had read about LotR... I don't know why I felt the need, but back then, I had this need to understand why Xenarwen was a problem and who was the popular Elf that didn't make the movie. For sure, I am no authority on ME, movie-making, or story-telling, but with what I learnt I have formed my opinions about the possibilities and potential of a TH adaptation that doesn't need an invented character like Tauriel doing the things Tauriel does (and some of it is rather trite or over-contrived... you probably know the bits I'm referring to already).

Of course, armchair criticising has the advantage of comfort and self-justifiable logic, never mind blindspots and objectivity (though I try very hard not to slide all the way into subjectivity though stuff like this is funny and I admit I sniggered). So! Though I am not the happiest with the way things are going, I don't "HATE" Tauriel, just wish PJ and team didn't feel the need to make the decisions they did to put her front and centre. Ultimately, I do enjoy the movie and every book-canon nod and Thranduil bit we get. I do think I can live with it (i suppose, I hope BotFA and the DOS EE doesn't disappoint), as in I do plan to do my LotR and TH EE marathon once all six are out, and it'd be terribly helpful that I won't be like some of the diehards I see around here tearing down everything PJ's done, determined to be unhappy until the end of days or a remake happens... which no doubt will send them into another cycle. Tongue To me, the world won't end... at worst, I'll just write a fic to address the problems if they gnaw that badly at my brain, when I can find the time (or inspiration). Eh... I'm rambling, time to cut it short before I go OT.



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Maybe this should have its own thread out on the boards, but I just like chatting to y’all Thralls, in context of our little corner of TORn. Angelic Have there been any Tauriel appreciation that I’ve missed? Or is the prejudice such that there simply haven’t been any?

heh... to me, Thranduil's thread should allow discussion of his subjects too, after all we've got Legolas and Thranduil's movie avatar and his various guises too.


(I'm not purposely diminishing her I swear. Can't put up a working pic link with the bigger thumbnail. In recompense, you can go to a writeup on her by clicking on the pic)

I may be wrong, but I think Eruvandi might be a fan as well. And when I was going through the whole forum before I *cough*showed myself*cough*, I did come across some appreciation for Tauriel. Smile But you might find more viewpoints and voices if you started a thread. I did a nameless elves appreciation one a few days back - not that it was a real success in engaging conversation though there were views... I guess folks are a bit shy about display of Elven appreciation in general? (Slight OT: You might like this for laughs)


PS I HeartJosh Holloway and Matthew Fox (did you watch his TV series Haunted?)... just that LOST lost me before the end of season 1 Tongue


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Jun 3 2014, 8:55am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 3 2014, 9:27am

Post #88 of 234 (6153 views)
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     Question: Thranduil's personal space/room [In reply to]  

Did that get your attention? Smile

Cool! I've been thinking about this a bit... eh, not in THAT sense. I'm referring to the Thranduil and Tauriel scene (ref youtube here if you need a refresher).

Bilbo is able to stealth his way into Thranduil's sleeping space (there's no walls or doors and I don't know what else to call it) down some stairs, and while Thranduil was giving Tauriel his spiel about fortunes and isolationism, he disappears down some other stairs on the other side of the bed we see in the scene.



So it seems access to the Elvenking is pretty easy (there were no guards at the top of the stairs since Thranduil seemed to expect Tauriel to come out of her shadow-lingering, and not someone else to address the situation). Looks like Thranduil has an open door policy literally or someone thought the design was a funny joke.

Would be cool to have a look at the halls' schematics and layout eh?

=====


OT: If Bilbo loitered around, this might have happened. Tongue


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


elf-lady
Rivendell

Jun 3 2014, 3:04pm

Post #89 of 234 (6104 views)
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     Tauriel [In reply to]  

I don't mind Tauriel as a character. Indeed, I think it's very cool to have such a strong, capable female elf and a warrior to boot. But in general I dislike heavy handed introductions accompanied by music that so obviously declares "LOOK! This is the new HEROINE!" when she and Legolas arrive to kill the spiders and coincidentally save the dwarves. Don't get me wrong, the new Tauriel theme is gorgeous. It's just that for me, the introduction wasn't very subtle and she feels a bit shoe horned into the story. Again, this is just my opinion. I don't hate her and I think Evangeline Lilly did a great job with her. I just don't like Tauriel's relative importance over others.

I understand that Tauriel was (among other things) introduced to open Legolas' eyes as to the plight of other peoples with a emotional arc that links his Hobbit-era self to the version we see in when he arrives in Rivendell who is disdainful of dwarves. But doing it that way diminishes Legolas I think. Could Legolas not have opened his own eyes after seeing first hand the death and destruction in Laketown after Smaug attacks? Or what about having more of a father and son disagreement/conflict over whether or not elves should become more involved? Think of the character development! We could have had such a wonderful series of interactions between them leading up to Legolas seeing Thranduil overcome his own disregard for others and honoring the fallen Thorin by placing Orcrist on Thorin's tomb.

Other random thoughts (for whatever they're worth):
  • I don't like romances in genre films
  • If a genre film is based on a story (or appendices) that contains a canon romance (like Aragorn and Arwen), fine but for Eru's sake, don't introduce one where none exists *cough*
  • I love character development...but not with a non-canon character at the expense of other characters, especially the main characters *I miss Bilbo*



(This post was edited by elf-lady on Jun 3 2014, 3:12pm)


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2014, 5:36pm

Post #90 of 234 (6071 views)
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     *flying tackle hug* [In reply to]  

FINALLY, someone else openly appreciates Tauriel! I don't have her as my avatar for no reason.Wink

Quote
My impression from these boards is that Tauriel is not popular – she’s seems to be viewed as an unnecessary, non-canon side character whose friendship with Kili is also unnecessary, whose ‘healing scene’ is soppy dross, whose on-screen story also promotes ‘more Legolas’ and cuts into time that could be better given to fleshing out other characters eg our beloved Elven King


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Have there been any Tauriel appreciation that I’ve missed? Or is the prejudice such that there simply haven’t been any?

Well, she may not be as popular as some characters, but she's not unpopular either. Controversial might be the best term. I see it more elsewhere than here on the boards, but there are many people who love Tauriel and appreciate what she adds to the story. I don't know if you've seen any of EL's Twitter or Facebook "Tauriel Q&A sessions", but I've checked them out when she's done them and she always seems to get inundated by positive feedback from both EL fans and Tauriel fans alike.

From what I've seen, the response to Tauriel here on the boards is extremely mixed. Yes, there is plenty of prejudice, but there is some positive as well. I've also seen a good number of people that have said they will stay neutral on her until after Bofa. Honestly, I think the main reason for the lack of outright appreciation, may be because of how vocal the people are that don't like her and those who do appreciate her may, like you, think they are the only ones so they keep it to themselves.

I've actually thought about starting a Tauriel appreciation thread, but I've been a little afraid to because of the passionate response that some people have to her. I guess I just don't want it turning into one of those "monster" threads that ultimately gets locked by the mods because everyone's arguing and some people start getting too personal about it. Maybe, just maybe, if I was to start a Tauriel appreciation thread, I could simply say that while I respect everyone's opinions, I would like to keep this one thread positive or at least neutral in nature and see what happens.Evil


Quote
I find myself feeling quite interested in Tauriel’s experience, and it opens up questions, possibly that I might think about fanfic’ing.
How does she fit in with other Mirkwood female elves? Does she have any girl buddies she hangs with? Is she nervous when she approaches Thranduil in his chambers, or is reporting to him a regular thing? Did she play with Legolas in childhood, or look up to him as a brotherly type? Are her parents still alive? What do Bard’s daughters think of her – will she inspire them? Does she have any pretty floaty robes for evening wear, or does she prefer practical hunting garb? What of her own feelings for Legolas? And how would Thranduil react if she and Legolas eloped? (if indeed elves do stuff that rash)

Thinking of her scene with Thranduil… when I first saw the trailer, I had a different interpretation. As you know, part of Thranduil’s vocal was edited out, and what we got was. “Legolas has grown very fond of you. Don’t give him hope where there is none.” From this, I concluded that “there is none” meant that she was possibly stringing Leggy along, and didn’t return his feelings.. And that the look on her face was because she realised she’d been ‘sprung’. Legolas’s dad could read how she really felt.
And so I approached DoS with this potential storyline of unrequited love for poor Leggy at the back of my mind. Was pleasantly surprised to learn otherwise, because it now becomes the thwarted love story, a ‘forbidden union’ class-thing.

I totally agree with all of this and have asked some of the same questions. Starting with the girl buddies: It's interesting how in both Tolkien's books and the movies, you never see the major female characters really interacting with other women. Ever. It's like there's one major female per location and all the other characters (the ones who get lines anyway) that they directly interact with are male. Tauriel being in the same room as Tilda and Sigrid is the closest we've ever come to such interaction, and, while they certainly don't have to sit down and have a conversation, I think it might be nice if they exchanged a word or two in the next movie. Or at least acknowledge each others' existence. A look...a nod...something! I don't think that's asking too much, is it?

Was Tauriel nervous approaching Thranduil?
: Yes, I think she was. Otherwise why would she have lingered in the shadows? However, I don't think she was nervous because she wasn't used to reporting to him. She was nervous because of what she was reporting. First of all, Thranduil had already ordered the spiders destroyed once before and I think Tauriel was afraid that spiders coming back and having to be destroyed again would make it look like she hadn't followed orders the first time. Also, by this time she knows full well that Thranduil is isolationist and doesn't want his people running around all willy-nilly outside of his realm, but she had decided to take a chance and propose that he send people to the source of the spiders to kill them there, and hoped that he might change his mind if she made the argument about the spiders spreading to other lands. IMO, this scene worked well in showing the naivete of her youth, as she was clearly disappointed, if not a little stunned when he replied "Other lands are not my concern."

How Leggy and Tauriel felt about each other growing up
: Every single time EL or OB talk about the relationship between Legolas and Tauriel up to this point they both use the terms brother or sister so I'll take their word for it and agree.

Tauriel's feelings for Legolas: Of course, I can't say anything for sure, but I got the impression that she likes him and might want to love him (or at least have permission from dad to love him, if that's how things turn out), but isn't sure how she feels right now. She was clearly flattered that Legolas had mentioned how well she was fighting, and I think she admires him a lot, but I just haven't been getting that "Oh my gosh I'm totally in love with you!" vibe from either of them. I feel like, in that scene, Thranduil was being an over-protective father when there was really no need to be.

How would Thranduil react if they eloped?:
Oh, I don't know...probably something like this:

Wink

"When life won't play along
And right keeps going wrong
And I can't seem to find my way
I know where I am found
So I won't let it drag me down
Oh, I'll keep dancing anyway"
~Move by MercyMe


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2014, 5:55pm

Post #91 of 234 (6086 views)
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     OB + LP kid pics [In reply to]  

Not that he wasn't a cute kid, but seems like LP was one of those people who grew into his looks over time. Seeing how he looked then and how he looks now, on one hand I can sort of see the resemblance: he has the same nose, same ears, but other than that I never would have guessed that that was him if no one had told me. On the other hand OB as a kid, still looked like himself. Like, I can look at his pic and say, "Oh yeah, that's definitely Orlando Bloom", but with LP, the first time I saw it I said, "Really? That was him?" He really changed a lot!Smile Interesting how that happens with some people.

"When life won't play along
And right keeps going wrong
And I can't seem to find my way
I know where I am found
So I won't let it drag me down
Oh, I'll keep dancing anyway"
~Move by MercyMe


Eruvandi
Tol Eressea


Jun 3 2014, 6:02pm

Post #92 of 234 (6078 views)
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     Thanks, but that dream was from a few months ago. [In reply to]  

The paper is long ago over and done. Now the only thing stressing me out and holding back my Thranduil thralldom is all the algebra exercises I have to do every day, but thankfully I haven't had any bad dreams because of it...yet. Crazy

(Psst...this post is actually me procrastinating a little on today's algebra. Don't tell my professor!Wink)

"When life won't play along
And right keeps going wrong
And I can't seem to find my way
I know where I am found
So I won't let it drag me down
Oh, I'll keep dancing anyway"
~Move by MercyMe


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 4 2014, 10:58am

Post #93 of 234 (6029 views)
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     Elf-lady i want to make your post my sig [In reply to]  

You say it so well! Not agreeing with Tauriel in the story doesn't necessarily mean disliking or hating her per se.



Quote
I understand that Tauriel was (among other things) introduced to open Legolas' eyes as to the plight of other peoples with a emotional arc that links his Hobbit-era self to the version we see in when he arrives in Rivendell who is disdainful of dwarves. But doing it that way diminishes Legolas I think. Could Legolas not have opened his own eyes after seeing first hand the death and destruction in Laketown after Smaug attacks? Or what about having more of a father and son disagreement/conflict over whether or not elves should become more involved? Think of the character development! We could have had such a wonderful series of interactions between them leading up to Legolas seeing Thranduil overcome his own disregard for others and honoring the fallen Thorin by placing Orcrist on Thorin's tomb.



Legolas: Can you believe it? She got it all right, she got us. Right, Dad?
Thranduil: Oh yeah!


Yup. I think it safe to say the male Elves in question agree with you.Smile


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 4 2014, 11:22am

Post #94 of 234 (6050 views)
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     Tauriel and Legolas [In reply to]  


Quote
Was Tauriel nervous approaching Thranduil?: Yes, I think she was. Otherwise why would she have lingered in the shadows? However, I don't think she was nervous because she wasn't used to reporting to him. She was nervous because of what she was reporting. First of all, Thranduil had already ordered the spiders destroyed once before and I think Tauriel was afraid that spiders coming back and having to be destroyed again would make it look like she hadn't followed orders the first time. Also, by this time she knows full well that Thranduil is isolationist and doesn't want his people running around all willy-nilly outside of his realm, but she had decided to take a chance and propose that he send people to the source of the spiders to kill them there, and hoped that he might change his mind if she made the argument about the spiders spreading to other lands. IMO, this scene worked well in showing the naivete of her youth, as she was clearly disappointed, if not a little stunned when he replied "Other lands are not my concern."

Good point and nice analysis.

I also find Thranduil's tone and expression when he said "I know you're there. Why do you linger in the shadows?" rather benign and maybe even paternal. Seems like he was quite the doting guardian to Tauriel, as Legolas later stated when he caught up with her. My only complaint is, why didn't PJ have Thranduil show this fatherliness to Legolas, child of his loins?



Quote
How Leggy and Tauriel felt about each other growing up: Every single time EL or OB talk about the relationship between Legolas and Tauriel up to this point they both use the terms brother or sister so I'll take their word for it and agree.

&

Tauriel's feelings for Legolas: Of course, I can't say anything for sure, but I got the impression that she likes him and might want to love him (or at least have permission from dad to love him, if that's how things turn out), but isn't sure how she feels right now. She was clearly flattered that Legolas had mentioned how well she was fighting, and I think she admires him a lot, but I just haven't been getting that "Oh my gosh I'm totally in love with you!" vibe from either of them. I feel like, in that scene, Thranduil was being an over-protective father when there was really no need to be.

Maybe it's just me, but the way the scene played gave conflicting messages about the Legolas/Tauriel relationship. On the whole, I get the same vibe you get, as in they're clearly not THAT into each other, but there seems to be interest, prima facie. If you say it's sibling affection, it seems to go a bit beyond that... maybe it's growing up that changed things and spawned the weird vibe? Crazy

Moving on. In the scene, the sense of ambivalence seems amplified. It seemed Tauriel was thrilled at the hint of shared approval when Thranduil said Legolas praised her fighting, as if he also approved. This could either play out as a daughter/sister happy to be acknowledged for her skillz, or as a lover glad to receive parental approval from the boy's side. She then seemed tentatively hopeful when she voiced her impression of his disapproval of Legolas' purported romantic interest in someone lower in birth. When Thranduil affirmed his disapproval, and basically told her no way in hell so hands off, she seemed crestfallen for the rejection, rather than the discriminatory nature of his words (which shouldn't be in the first place if she wasn't feeling requitive to Legolas' interest). And in any case, I don't think Thranduil, with his experience and refined Elven senses, would read the situation that far wrong. It'd be like saying Spider-man can't trust his tingling spidey senses. Tongue



Quote
How would Thranduil react if they eloped?: Oh, I don't know...probably something like this:

Wink



LOL Then there'll be hell to pay. I hope it wasn't Galion or his drinking buddy Elros who was on duty when it happened. Given their track record, the interrogation wouldn't be pretty.




(I hope all that made sense... and its nice that you've got a like-minded conversation partner on this sensitive topic now Smile)


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


(This post was edited by Lurker in the Mirk on Jun 4 2014, 11:35am)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 4 2014, 1:07pm

Post #95 of 234 (6038 views)
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     Interesting, isn't it? [In reply to]  

Absolutely agree with you. It also seems like OB's looks were a bit more grown in... I don't know how to put it in the right way, but it looks like he may be a bit older when his pic was taken compared to LP?


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 4 2014, 1:08pm

Post #96 of 234 (6007 views)
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     LOL [In reply to]  

Then I hope your algebra gets its act together before they put you off alphabet soup permanently Smile


Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Kerewyn
Rohan


Jun 4 2014, 10:05pm

Post #97 of 234 (5995 views)
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     On Tauriel [In reply to]  

What great responses on this – thank you Thralls. And I can relate to and respect everyone’s viewpoint.

By the way, I want to make it clear – when I said she seemed to be unpopular, I was not referring to anything particular that I’d read here in the TAThread. I’d been going through a thread somewhere on TORn – I can’t recall which one – but I was surprised by the level of users who seemed to hate the movies so much. There’ve been some seriously vitriolic statements. People are passionate about Tolkien, I know that. But as you say, Eurvandi, about reluctance to start a thread on it… it may invite the kind of feedback I don’t want to deal with, if my aim is to have a positive discussion. Controversial is a good word to use for her.

I was thinking how, if Tauriel is a PJ/PB/FW creation, she is in a way their fanfiction. But now that they’ve created her, yes I am frustrated by the limitations of screenplay. She exists now! I want to see it all – all of Thranduil’s story, all of Tauriel’s story, yes even all of Legolas’s story… the intervening years before he shows up at the Council of Elrond, the subtle shift in his character. Is his appearance there entirely his own will, or a relaxation of his father’s isolationism – has he been sent? ( But I digress.)

I am also wondering if my developed interest in her and Legolas’s story is, at a subconscious level, a defensive measure – so that if there is not as much about Thranduil in BotFA to satisfy, then at least there could be that to keep me happy. I hope I will not feel disappointed. I guess I have a lot invested in wanting to really like what’s to come, because for me, PJ is ‘da man’ and I really want to trust his vision and get the most that I can out of it. He took two books I’d never read, and made them central to my inner life (with all due respect to the great creator of the source material). And there’s my Kiwi pride too, and my serious interest in all that goes on behind the scenes.

Y’know, when people whinge about the fact there are three films where there really needed only be two, I’m like “the more time I spend in this world, the better!” I personally can’t understand why you’d want less screen time. Because sometimes, when in a certain mood, I don’t see them as movies existing in this world with its critics and timeframes and box office takings, but windows into ME. Heck, gimme four films, gimme five. Gimme a TV serial that follows the Elven back story to the end of time.

Ha ha - this was a bit of a stream of consciousness! I guess the main aim of my previous post was to stick up for Tauriel and probe into how other Thralls truly feel about her.

'People don't know where I begin and latex ends, which has always been an ambition for me.' (Martin Freeman)


elf-lady
Rivendell

Jun 5 2014, 1:37pm

Post #98 of 234 (5956 views)
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     Legolas was sent to Rivendell... [In reply to]  


In Reply To
...yes even all of Legolas’s story… the intervening years before he shows up at the Council of Elrond, the subtle shift in his character. Is his appearance there entirely his own will, or a relaxation of his father’s isolationism – has he been sent? .

As far as this goes in the books, yes. Legolas was sent to Rivendell by Thranduil to report that Gollum had escaped from their prison (Gollum being brought there by Aragorn). But in PJ's movie verse, since everyone was "summoned" by Elrond to "answer the threat of Mordor", I'd imagine that Thranduil did send his son and that equally, Legolas wanted to be sent. I'll bet Thranduil was quite surprised and concerned at the outcome of the Council of Elrond.

"But there was in Thranduil's heart a still deeper shadow. He had seen the horror of Mordor and could not forget it." Imagine his anxiety now that Legolas was a member of the Fellowship!


(This post was edited by elf-lady on Jun 5 2014, 1:39pm)


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 5 2014, 2:18pm

Post #99 of 234 (5949 views)
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     Anthropologic venture then? [In reply to]  

Seems like a study you're doing, Kerewyn Smile


Quote
Y’know, when people whinge about the fact there are three films where there really needed only be two, I’m like “the more time I spend in this world, the better!” I personally can’t understand why you’d want less screen time. Because sometimes, when in a certain mood, I don’t see them as movies existing in this world with its critics and timeframes and box office takings, but windows into ME. Heck, gimme four films, gimme five. Gimme a TV serial that follows the Elven back story to the end of time.

Truly. I can't speak for opposers of the films, but it just seems to me that despite all the charges levelled at PJ re the decisions that are unpopular among the book-faithful, if they did see the films with at least some objectivity, they'd find themselves
looking through, as you say, windows into ME.

The Elven backstory: Yah, sign me up for this! The sad thing is, this would have to involve the Silmarillion (which I've read) and probably some Children of Hurin + bits of History of Middle Earth (neither of which I've got), and it seems like the Tolkien estate is not likely to grant the rights to those.



Quote
yes even all of Legolas’s story… the intervening years before he shows up at the Council of Elrond, the subtle shift in his character. Is his appearance there entirely his own will, or a relaxation of his father’s isolationism – has he been sent?

Just have to poke my nerdy nose into this. [Book spoiler start]Re the book, everybody who was not a Rivendell resident basically showed at the right time for the Council of Elrond. Legolas was sent by Thranduil to report Gollum's escape, but of course he did not go home thereafter. In fact, he was probably personally involved in Gollum's sentry duty. The interesting thing is, how much did Thranduil know about or guessed about Gollum prior since Gandalf actually asked the Woodland Elves to track Gollum post0BoFA (which they did until he slunk beyond the Mirkwood borders), and again when Gandalf picked up the hunt for Gollum again about 60 years later with Aragorn (who, imo, surely have done some sleuthing around Mirkwood in his mission), and how it played into Thranduil's arrangements to have his own son do Gollum sentry duty when Gandalf asked him to keep Gollum prisoner, and ultimately send Legolas to Rivendell to report Gollum's escape. Thranduil's experience in the Last Alliance surely informs his decisions, plus he obviously shared Oropher's philisophy - Oropher wanted nothing to do with Lothlorien or Dwarves as far as possible, and yet he joined the Elven armies in the Last Alliance because he recognised the need and his responsibility to stand up against Sauron. Thranduil surely thinks the same way with his policies. Otherwise he could very well shrug his shoulders and do nothing at every opportunity regarding Gollum and his inevitable escape
[Book spoiler end]



Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies


Lurker in the Mirk
Valinor


Jun 5 2014, 2:28pm

Post #100 of 234 (5956 views)
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     ooh [In reply to]  


Quote
I'll bet Thranduil was quite surprised and concerned at the outcome of the Council of Elrond.

Who do you think brought the report back to Mirkwood since Legolas enlisted directly into the fellowship? I'd imagine the messenger didn't relish having to tell Thranduil about Legolas going off with the rag-tag bunch. Surely he would be grimness itself


"But there was in Thranduil's heart a still deeper shadow. He had seen the horror of Mordor and could not forget it."




Fan of both books and movies. Oh, and it seems I have severely misnamed myself... for the moment.

Thranduil Appreciation: I, II, III, IV, V

"BoFA"= The Battle || "BotFA"/"tBofTA" = The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies

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