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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Tauriel could have been a good character...
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dormouse
Half-elven


Feb 12 2014, 4:25pm

Post #26 of 113 (817 views)
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On point 4.... [In reply to] Can't Post

No need to be sorry on my account (or, for that matter, on anyone else's if it's how you feel!). I agree, it's a beautiful scene. One of my favourites in the whole film.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Feb 12 2014, 4:33pm

Post #27 of 113 (831 views)
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Could you imagine the outrage? [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen so many posts here and elsewhere about what a travesty it was that so much time was wasted on this made up character. Could you imagine the outrage if they had spent even more time to develop her character?


Personally, I think they got the balance just about right.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Elessar
Valinor


Feb 12 2014, 4:38pm

Post #28 of 113 (803 views)
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That works both ways. [In reply to] Can't Post

The part in bold works both ways for those that shout from the mountain tops it is a love affair.

In Reply To
That's just your opinion. Others opinions are not right or wrong. The fact that so many people are seeing some sort of romantic relationship should tell you something. It's built up in a manner that can be taken either way. If you don't see it romantically, fine, but that remains only your opinion.




wonderinglinguist
Lorien

Feb 12 2014, 4:43pm

Post #29 of 113 (797 views)
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When did I say it didn't? [In reply to] Can't Post

I never said it didn't go both ways and I believe I said as much in my post far up above. The quote I cited, though, was blatantly stating an opinion as fact and that's what I was responding to.

Edit: I even said "Other opinions are not right or wrong" (emphasis added here), so I'm even more confused why you replied how you did.

keep smiling Smile

(This post was edited by wonderinglinguist on Feb 12 2014, 4:47pm)


book Gandalf
Rohan


Feb 12 2014, 4:46pm

Post #30 of 113 (804 views)
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enough [In reply to] Can't Post

Tauriel gets far too much written about her, shes a minor character, not even worth bothering with really. shes a cliche, a love interest invented for the studios , shes non tolkien (however much you argue, tolkien had no input into her character) and she takes up too much time in th efilms that ar already skipping over much loved scenes.

the sooner her and azog kill each other the better for everyone.

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.


Riven Delve
Tol Eressea


Feb 12 2014, 4:51pm

Post #31 of 113 (800 views)
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Surprise! [In reply to] Can't Post

There seem to be people who disagree with you on this subject.


"I did shatter his lantern, and that would have been pretty fair shooting, I can tell you, if I had been aiming at it!"



Elessar
Valinor


Feb 12 2014, 4:54pm

Post #32 of 113 (789 views)
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Because [In reply to] Can't Post

despite you saying that it felt more like it was more of a "Well, that's just your opinion (insert angry body language and such)". So I was just talking out loud for effect more than anything. The end comment just hit me wrong more or less.



(This post was edited by Elessar on Feb 12 2014, 4:56pm)


Elessar
Valinor


Feb 12 2014, 4:54pm

Post #33 of 113 (794 views)
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ok [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile



wonderinglinguist
Lorien

Feb 12 2014, 5:14pm

Post #34 of 113 (769 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm sorry you took it that way. Unfortunately, words don't always come across the right way online, without the benefit of facial expressions, body language or vocal intonation, etc.

keep smiling Smile


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Feb 12 2014, 5:15pm

Post #35 of 113 (769 views)
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Totally. [In reply to] Can't Post

In fact,for the majority of casual moviegoers, Tauriel was an indifferent or a likeable character.That hatred,bashing and the notion of her being a travesty comes mostly from a shouty minority.It is really hard to believe that Tauriel would rise such an uproar of negativity amongst common viewers.


wonderinglinguist
Lorien

Feb 12 2014, 5:20pm

Post #36 of 113 (804 views)
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An observation [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't know if this should be in a different thread altogether, but as it relates to this specific thread, here it is:
Inevitably, it seems, all Tauriel-related threads devolve into snarky comments. I include myself as one who has struggled with this (though...I think I've been pretty good this thread Wink), and I know many of you maintain a respectful manner throughout, but so many posters resort to sarcasm, borderline name-calling and disrespectful responses. Is it so hard to have a rational, mature exchange without getting snarky or personal? Overall, I've always been impressed with the boards in this respect, but certain threads really struggle.

I don't have any great suggestions other than the proverbial "think before you speak." Perhaps a better one would be, "if you're emotionally invested in the topic take a breath before typing a response"? Smile

I don't know. Food for thought.

keep smiling Smile


KingTurgon
Rohan


Feb 12 2014, 5:28pm

Post #37 of 113 (767 views)
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Exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

Well said. And OP, great post.


book Gandalf
Rohan


Feb 12 2014, 5:29pm

Post #38 of 113 (773 views)
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well [In reply to] Can't Post

its because us rational REAL tolkien lovers and people with good judgment can see tauriel for what she is, a travesty to the world of middle earth a cliche and unneeded.

then there's everyone else who just likes the films hasmt read the book and only watches unintelligent mainstream movies.

im am of course joking, but this is what it sort of comes down too taken the opposing opinions to the extreme. and neither sides will ever see eye to eye.

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.


Annatar598
Rohan


Feb 12 2014, 5:30pm

Post #39 of 113 (776 views)
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I don't see it, sorry [In reply to] Can't Post

It doesn't seem like she's returning it - It looks like Kili's (fat, may I add) fingers are making the movements with a very subtle reaction from Tauriel's hands. He's poking his fingers through hers lol.

I wasn't enforcing my opinion on anyone. I was being rather immature and ironic in that this has been discussed so many times. Maybe the "jeeeez" gives the immaturity away I guess.

Of course, everyone has their own take on every scene and frame. People think Gandalf's expression while marching armed to Dol Guldur is of fear. I think It's uncertainty matched with confidence and resolve. Nothing in film or literature can be taken ONE particular way because we all interpret everything differently.

But I would like to add again that Tauriel is a well-written character among rather dull ones. She's the most deep female character in these 6 films and certainly the most interesting one. Arwen, Galadriel and Eowyn are all portrayed stereotypically. Arwen being the most blatant one in both the books and movies. Eowyn is the feisty and rebellious woman. Galadriel comes closest to being a 3-dimensional character. I have high hopes for her in film 3.

"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.

Really? Alright...

Well, proud to be one I guess.


NecromancerRising
Gondor


Feb 12 2014, 5:35pm

Post #40 of 113 (755 views)
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I hope so [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
its because us rational REAL tolkien lovers and people with good judgment can see tauriel for what she is, a travesty to the world of middle earth a cliche and unneeded.

then there's everyone else who just likes the films hasmt read the book and only watches unintelligent mainstream movies.

im am of course joking, but this is what it sort of comes down too taken the opposing opinions to the extreme. and neither sides will ever see eye to eye.




Annatar598
Rohan


Feb 12 2014, 5:35pm

Post #41 of 113 (750 views)
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I wasn't at all [In reply to] Can't Post

blatantly stating an opinion as a fact.

It was just sarcasm. There was sarcasm and irony all over my post. The exclamation marks, the "jeeeez" and the caps. I apologize if I came across as rude but I was not imposing an opinion on anyone!

"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.

Really? Alright...

Well, proud to be one I guess.


wonderinglinguist
Lorien

Feb 12 2014, 5:39pm

Post #42 of 113 (757 views)
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Kili starts it [In reply to] Can't Post

but unless we're looking at different videos, she does open her fingers (and yes, moves them towards his hand, albeit slightly) to let his in.

I'm curious, why do you think PJ would even make a point to showcase this moment (the hand holding, that is)?

Anyway, I never said you were enforcing your opinion on anyone. You were, however, declaring the way you see things as the "right" way. That was my only objection. Love Tauriel or hate her, I don't care, I just don't think it's right to tell someone they're in the wrong for not holding the same view. That's all Smile

keep smiling Smile


wonderinglinguist
Lorien

Feb 12 2014, 5:41pm

Post #43 of 113 (753 views)
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Ok [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you for saying you were joking. I was about to have a "head to desk" moment there Wink

keep smiling Smile


book Gandalf
Rohan


Feb 12 2014, 5:42pm

Post #44 of 113 (795 views)
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tauriel ...again [In reply to] Can't Post

if you want interesting well written female characters, dont read tolkien or see tolkien films.

tolkien is all about wizards, hobbits,warriors, dragons,. monsters and goblins, dont expect three dimensional modern women. if you want that go see the thousands other pieces of literature and film that deals with these areas.

this is my problem with tauriel. she is written in by a modern writer working for a studio that wants to change the story.

im not saying that there shouldnt interesting female characters, im just saying ther isnt any in this story, and thats just how it is. take it or leave it, i dont see why it had to be changed.

if i go to see The Vagina Monlogues i dont expect it to have a token mans story about his sausage.

i promise to myself i will never mention tauriel or discuss her again. im over it.

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.

(This post was edited by Ataahua on Feb 12 2014, 7:01pm)


Annatar598
Rohan


Feb 12 2014, 5:42pm

Post #45 of 113 (748 views)
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Who are you to say... [In reply to] Can't Post

who is a "rational real Tolkien lover"?

You said you were joking but went on to rebut that you were joking by saying that this is what it comes down to.

I've studied Tolkien like a religion for the past 2 years leading to my retirement and I really do adore Tauriel. I think she's a fascinating character. Do you know what sold Tauriel for me? Her speech on Starlight. Such beautiful language and imagery that harkens back to the Silmarillion.

But I do understand the backlash towards the "romance." I know many Tolkien fans are against fabricated relationships like these. But again, I would say that this is not a full-fledged romance.

And by the way, Tauriel's theme is the best one in these Hobbit films. The Beyond the Forest score is truly spectacular. The Misty Mountains theme was shoehorned into everything in AUJ so that shoddy music editing stained that score for me.


Quote
its because us rational REAL tolkien lovers and people with good judgment can see tauriel for what she is, a travesty to the world of middle earth a cliche and unneeded.

then there's everyone else who just likes the films hasmt read the book and only watches unintelligent mainstream movies.

im am of course joking, but this is what it sort of comes down too taken the opposing opinions to the extreme. and neither sides will ever see eye to eye.


"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.

Really? Alright...

Well, proud to be one I guess.

(This post was edited by Annatar598 on Feb 12 2014, 5:46pm)


Annatar598
Rohan


Feb 12 2014, 5:46pm

Post #46 of 113 (748 views)
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Hahaha [In reply to] Can't Post

I really do think Tauriel has been bashed too much lol. There is SO MUCH in these movies to pick apart; dialogue, structure and pacing. I for one, found Orlando Bloom awful as Legolas. It's clear the man was brought in for his sex appeal.

"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.

Really? Alright...

Well, proud to be one I guess.


wonderinglinguist
Lorien

Feb 12 2014, 5:47pm

Post #47 of 113 (747 views)
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Music [In reply to] Can't Post

While I enjoyed the Misty Mountain theme, you'll get no argument from me concerning Tauriel's music. I think the Feast of Starlight theme is absolutely beautiful. I struggle to recall it sometimes, but perhaps that's because I'm getting old Wink

keep smiling Smile


7.62 mm FMJ
Bree


Feb 12 2014, 6:00pm

Post #48 of 113 (760 views)
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Regarding screentime... [In reply to] Can't Post

Okay, I don't think my friend meant that Tauriel needed more screentime to for development. I think he meant that she can be a more rounded and developed character using just the screentime she currently has or even less.


Annatar598
Rohan


Feb 12 2014, 6:01pm

Post #49 of 113 (742 views)
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First off [In reply to] Can't Post

This is a Peter Jackson film. When I go to see a Peter Jackson film; I go to see a Peter Jackson film.

They are only Tolkien ADAPTATIONS. Books are never adapted faithfully for movies. There is no example out there that can counter this statement.

Our world has changed. If these movies are to be successful, they need to follow mainstream patterns. PJ learned his pacing issues with AUJ which is why DOS is an extended battle sequence. Blame him all you want but he works for a studio (Warner Bros NEVER plays nice with its filmmakers) and I am certain he would not divert from his traditional directorial style by choice. The same director who made LOTR, King Kong and AUJ would not make such a rushed action movie like DOS without (the modern term) any "dragging."

To be successful FILMS, compromises must be made. Tauriel alienates us fans (though please note that fan reaction is divided) but she serves the masses quite well. She's particularly a hit with those who objectify women in movies. It's very rare that you get a hit movie that doesn't follow these "rules."

If the 4 hour long LOTR films were released today, I guarantee you there would be huge backlash towards the movies. Those films were rare successes.

These Hobbit movies were made to make millions and billions. It is a sad thing but it's something I have no control over so I am incredibly grateful and satisfied with what we got knowing that otherwise we would've had nothing.

And these aren't bad movies... They really aren't... But that is only my opinion of course.

"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.

Really? Alright...

Well, proud to be one I guess.


Annatar598
Rohan


Feb 12 2014, 6:04pm

Post #50 of 113 (747 views)
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I personally think the writers did the best they could [In reply to] Can't Post

to shoehorn a female character into an already crowded film.

Nearly every scene she is in develops her character. Even her fight scenes. We see how fiercely she tries to protect the dwarves and how in the Lake Town orc-attack she chooses to heal Kili.

"[Annatar598] is an overzealous apologist [for PJ]" - Certain TORn member.

Really? Alright...

Well, proud to be one I guess.

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