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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Reviews, Reactions Part 7

Olorin2607
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 7:23pm

Post #1 of 220 (7531 views)
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Reviews, Reactions Part 7 Can't Post

http://www.empireonline.com/...plete.asp?FID=137814

http://variety.com/...g-review-1200919206/

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/...-smaug/review/663372

3 serious magazines very positive so far.

I will link RT as well:
http://www.rottentomatoes.com/...desolation_of_smaug/


(This post was edited by Nagini6 on Dec 6 2013, 7:23pm)


Imladris18
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 7:34pm

Post #2 of 220 (2872 views)
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Yeah, we should probably get a sticky going already. [In reply to] Can't Post

Cool


pandoraziki
Rivendell

Dec 6 2013, 7:46pm

Post #3 of 220 (2832 views)
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5 stars out of 5 from Empire! Sweet! NT [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Thorin's Oakenshield
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 7:51pm

Post #4 of 220 (2870 views)
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In regards to the embargo [In reply to] Can't Post

Germain Lussier from slashfilm mentioned on twitter that the embargo has only been lifted for the major Trade Magazines (like Empire and Variety). The major movie sites can't post their reviews until Sunday.


tsmith675
Gondor


Dec 6 2013, 7:54pm

Post #5 of 220 (2850 views)
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EMPIRE's rating is now on Metacritic [In reply to] Can't Post

100. Now DoS already has more 100s than AUJ got on Metacritic last year.

"Seriously, why was the scene with CGI dwarf ass NOT in the theatrical cut?!"


daemoon
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 8:01pm

Post #6 of 220 (2736 views)
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Are you sure? [In reply to] Can't Post

Altaira just said that the embargo has lifted and hopefully we will see some reviews from TORN staff today. Or maybe TORN is a special case. Wink


Joe20
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 8:03pm

Post #7 of 220 (2923 views)
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A few tweets from Collider's Steven Weintraub... [In reply to] Can't Post

https://twitter.com/...s/409049383380856832
"embargo lifted: THE HOBBIT: DESOLATION OF SMAUG is almost nonstop action. People that had issues with last film are going to love this one."

https://twitter.com/...s/409049633323622400
"THE HOBBIT: DESOLATION OF SMAUG has some unbelievable action. One sequence had my theater clapping after it ended."

https://twitter.com/...s/409049992431562752
"also, Benedict Cumberbatch as Smaug is just awesome in the film. Loved his performance and voice. Cannot wait for the last installment."


(This post was edited by Joe20 on Dec 6 2013, 8:05pm)


Eruonen
Valinor


Dec 6 2013, 8:11pm

Post #8 of 220 (2765 views)
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Three positive for the most part reviews that make fair and valid [In reply to] Can't Post

points. Looking forward to seeing it in different formats.


Joe20
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 8:13pm

Post #9 of 220 (2882 views)
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Comingsoon.net [In reply to] Can't Post

Positive - 8.5/10


(This post was edited by Joe20 on Dec 6 2013, 8:14pm)


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 8:21pm

Post #10 of 220 (2766 views)
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I cant help but feeling that [In reply to] Can't Post

DoS gonna be big! but I 'm still keeping my expectation low untill we have more reviews.

We will know it really really soon now.


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 6 2013, 8:52pm

Post #11 of 220 (2579 views)
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IW [In reply to] Can't Post

Hopefully, this roundup will also lead to a positive review by IW themselves.

http://blogs.indiewire.com/...g-review-and-roundup


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 6 2013, 9:23pm

Post #12 of 220 (2439 views)
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Tweet Collider [In reply to] Can't Post

@colliderfrosty
@firstshowing people are going to go crazy. It's wall to wall action and some great character stuff.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 9:27pm

Post #13 of 220 (2370 views)
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Hope a new wave of reviews [In reply to] Can't Post

coming soon. I'm a bit sleepy now.


tsmith675
Gondor


Dec 6 2013, 9:27pm

Post #14 of 220 (2618 views)
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Terrible review by Screencrush [In reply to] Can't Post

http://screencrush.com/...ion-of-smaug-review/

This review is downright insulting. This is one of the most unprofessional reviews I've ever read. Absolutely terrible.

*Edit: And this is the first Rotten review on RT.

"Seriously, why was the scene with CGI dwarf ass NOT in the theatrical cut?!"

(This post was edited by tsmith675 on Dec 6 2013, 9:35pm)


RaoulJ
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 9:28pm

Post #15 of 220 (2329 views)
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Hmmm.. None of the links are working. An error? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Thorin's Oakenshield
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 9:32pm

Post #16 of 220 (2383 views)
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Ugh [In reply to] Can't Post

It's fine that he didn't like the movie, but there is no reason for a review to be that irritatingly condescending.


daemoon
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 9:32pm

Post #17 of 220 (2402 views)
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Expected [In reply to] Can't Post

This guy gave 5/10 to AUJ last year, even though he claims that DoS is superior than the first Hobbit.


Olorin2607
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 9:32pm

Post #18 of 220 (2361 views)
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OMG [In reply to] Can't Post

That's just utterly stupid.


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 9:32pm

Post #19 of 220 (2366 views)
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But give it 4/10? lol [In reply to] Can't Post

 


LoremIpsum
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 9:36pm

Post #20 of 220 (2370 views)
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I've been reading both positve and negative reviews so far [In reply to] Can't Post

and most of them are pretty badly written. I imagine many online reviewers are suddenly in a mad rush to finish their half written reviews to post them quickly on-line and this is what we are getting. I thought that even the Variety/Hollywood reporter ones were pretty badly written though positive on the film.


(This post was edited by LoremIpsum on Dec 6 2013, 9:37pm)


Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 9:36pm

Post #21 of 220 (2485 views)
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Reviews [In reply to] Can't Post

The reviews from "Variety" and "The Hollywood Reporter" are actually 7/10 that is really not "very positive".


Macsen
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 9:36pm

Post #22 of 220 (2278 views)
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Lol [In reply to] Can't Post

Haha, I like that screencrush review. Fair play to him. Laugh


Jax_Teller
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 9:38pm

Post #23 of 220 (2324 views)
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Jesus [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, that's bound to happen, there will be people who will still be downright cynical about the movie. It's like this guy Ethan Anderton on Twitter, from Firstshowing.net, he's having a rant right now on how he feels The Hobbit movies are phony, because they feel like movies for children, or something.

The ignorance out there can be maddening sometimes, I have no worries though that TABA will be plenty dark and tragic when it needs to be, and that should limit the trolling.

Blunt the knives, bend them forks, smash the bottles and burn the corks.

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates !


Olorin2607
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 9:38pm

Post #24 of 220 (2369 views)
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My god... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's clearly very positive considering how those reviewed AUJ.


hobbitrunner
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 9:39pm

Post #25 of 220 (2257 views)
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I discard his opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

Even without reading his review in full (but really.. these aren't "real movies"??) I can tell this guy's opinions.. differ from mine. He gave Thor: TDW a 9/10 but a movie like Rush a mere 6/10 because the "races are marvelously shot".


Jax_Teller
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 9:39pm

Post #26 of 220 (1452 views)
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Meh [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
The reviews from "Variety" and "The Hollywood Reporter" are actually 7/10 that is really not "very positive".


On Rotten Tomatoes? Because if that's the case, a lot of reviews like Variety don't give out scores, and then RT decides of a score, and we find ourselves sometimes with positive reviews counted as rotten.

Blunt the knives, bend them forks, smash the bottles and burn the corks.

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates !


demnation
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 9:39pm

Post #27 of 220 (1457 views)
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Normally I would welcome contrary opinions [In reply to] Can't Post

 especially since all of the positivity began. But if the reviewer won't even extend the courtesy of respecting the opinions of people who might feel differently than him, then I have to ask why I should take him seriously.

Hello!


tsmith675
Gondor


Dec 6 2013, 9:40pm

Post #28 of 220 (1398 views)
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I know, but... [In reply to] Can't Post

this guy's notion that the Hobbit films aren't actually "real" movies? What the hell does that even mean? A pretty terrible review overall for this guy.

"Seriously, why was the scene with CGI dwarf ass NOT in the theatrical cut?!"

(This post was edited by tsmith675 on Dec 6 2013, 9:41pm)


daemoon
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 9:41pm

Post #29 of 220 (1442 views)
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This is hilarious [In reply to] Can't Post

https://twitter.com/Ethan_Anderton

"For me, THE HOBBIT so far feels like a children’s story people tell within the world of LORD OF THE RINGS. Thus, not as good."

"No, it’s not. It actually happened. Doesn’t have the power of LORD OF THE RINGS. Feels phony like a fairytale."

"That’s fine, but it’s a step backwards. At least HARRY POTTER has a practical reason for being childish first and getting better."


Jax_Teller
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 9:42pm

Post #30 of 220 (1397 views)
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Wow [In reply to] Can't Post

"There comes a time when we must stop kidding ourselves. These ‘Hobbit‘ films – with ‘The Desolation of Smaug‘ representing the shank of the trilogy – are not real movies. These are exploitation films for Tolkien nuts, for enthusiasts of the original ‘Lord of the Rings’ movies and for audiences so hungry for high fantasy they’ll gobble up whatever is served to them and ask for seconds."

From Screenrush, what a jerk.

Blunt the knives, bend them forks, smash the bottles and burn the corks.

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates !

(This post was edited by entmaiden on Dec 7 2013, 2:28am)


Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 9:42pm

Post #31 of 220 (1457 views)
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Oh my godness [In reply to] Can't Post

It is clearly not "very positive" as the thread-starter seems to believe. No use to fool yourself.


Jax_Teller
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 9:42pm

Post #32 of 220 (1409 views)
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Hysterical [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
https://twitter.com/Ethan_Anderton

"For me, THE HOBBIT so far feels like a children’s story people tell within the world of LORD OF THE RINGS. Thus, not as good."

"No, it’s not. It actually happened. Doesn’t have the power of LORD OF THE RINGS. Feels phony like a fairytale."

"That’s fine, but it’s a step backwards. At least HARRY POTTER has a practical reason for being childish first and getting better."


Yep, that's the guy I was talking about, hysterical comments.

Blunt the knives, bend them forks, smash the bottles and burn the corks.

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates !


Jax_Teller
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 9:44pm

Post #33 of 220 (1402 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It is clearly not "very positive" as the thread-starter seems to believe. No use to fool yourself.



What's sure is that this one will be much better received critically speaking, not that it matters really, but at least, it's some form of victory.

That some of those who hated AUJ liked, or even loved this one, is a good thing.

Blunt the knives, bend them forks, smash the bottles and burn the corks.

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates !


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 9:44pm

Post #34 of 220 (1430 views)
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that 2 critics gave AUJ only 5 [In reply to] Can't Post

i dont mind if this kind of 7/10 reviews continue. I'm so satisfying if it still better than AUJ.


Ar-Pharazôn
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 9:45pm

Post #35 of 220 (1395 views)
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Reviews [In reply to] Can't Post

No, on metacritics.


Fili
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 9:47pm

Post #36 of 220 (1391 views)
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The Tagline of His Review [In reply to] Can't Post

"Don't let anyone tell you different: The Hobbit Desolation of Smaug stinks."

That should tell you right away what kind of guy he thinks he is and what he thinks of you and other reviewers.

And yeah, as far as any in-depth analysis? Usually when I read a critic, I can understand exactly where a film did or didn't work for him (even if I disagree). This guy just puked a bunch of hyperbole and snark onto a little web page and called it a review.

He can get stuffed.

“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”


demnation
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 9:48pm

Post #37 of 220 (1378 views)
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I think he makes some very valid points [In reply to] Can't Post

about the differences in tone between LOTR and TH. Of course, I haven't seen the film yet so I don't know if his points are valid for DOS.

Hello!


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 9:48pm

Post #38 of 220 (1389 views)
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If you have 70+ score at metacritic [In reply to] Can't Post

that is not so easy. just see The Avenger.


daemoon
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 9:48pm

Post #39 of 220 (1370 views)
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Thor 2 [In reply to] Can't Post

"But that is more of an involuntary reaction to exposure to certain elements, not the summation of a film. Listen, there’s a grey-bearded wizard who warns in low tones about a place that sounds like “Doggledoor.” And there’s someone referred to as “Thorin son of Thrain son of Thror.” I love that geekorama stuff more than most. It’s hilarious, and I’ll probably refer to my cat as “Thorin son of Thrain son of Thror” for the next week. "

He says that and gave Thor 2 a 9/10.


demnation
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 9:52pm

Post #40 of 220 (1300 views)
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"Everyone else is lying!" [In reply to] Can't Post

Is a strange mindset to have for a critic.

Hello!


Elskidor
Rohan


Dec 6 2013, 9:58pm

Post #41 of 220 (1226 views)
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lol [In reply to] Can't Post

That's reason enough to revoke his critic license.

And Thor 2? lol, I saw that...it was almost as good as the first Thor, but really it was just more of the same. 9/10? Yeah, maybe if it was the first super hero ever made and everyone was still so blown away. As it stands Thor 2 is much like the rest of the super hero film clones nowadays..7/10 movie wise...Loki character wise can have a 9/10 though, but not the film.


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 9:59pm

Post #42 of 220 (1253 views)
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read the reviews [In reply to] Can't Post

considering how they felt about AUJ, i'd say the reviews are positive enough.


Thorin's Oakenshield
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 10:04pm

Post #43 of 220 (1391 views)
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Indiewire review - quite negative [In reply to] Can't Post

http://blogs.indiewire.com/...kellen-more-20131206


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 10:06pm

Post #44 of 220 (1197 views)
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that Screencrush review is just... [In reply to] Can't Post

i have no problem with the fact that it's negative, but man, he just spent no effort whatsoever in writing that thing. his points don't really cohere at all and it's never good starting out a review by insulting everyone that might disagree with you. and i've actually liked some reviews that Jordan Hoffman has done in the past, with this it seems like he just didn't get into the movie at all and didn't bother investing much thought or time into his review. maybe he shouldn't have bothered at all.

what's weird, though, is he heaps a lot of praise on the big three setpieces we've all been hearing about, the spiders, the barrel ride, and Smaug. and yet the movie gets a 4 out of 10. the story and characters must do nothing for him.


Carne
Tol Eressea

Dec 6 2013, 10:16pm

Post #45 of 220 (1085 views)
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Sounds like he hates everything Tolkien to begin with // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 10:18pm

Post #46 of 220 (1141 views)
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No indiewire [In reply to] Can't Post

It is The Playlist
Indiewire is seperated section


Hsvfan
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 10:18pm

Post #47 of 220 (1329 views)
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The Guardian review [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.theguardian.com/...tion-of-smaug-review


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Dec 6 2013, 11:34pm)


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 10:19pm

Post #48 of 220 (1113 views)
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now that is a much better written negative review [In reply to] Can't Post

than the ScreenCrush travesty. it is a bit confusing, though, as on one hand he seems to praise the film for having better pacing and action than AUJ but on the other hand...i dunno, he says he doesn't think the movie is about anything. it's the middle chapter and that seems to hurt it in his eyes because no thematic throughlines are getting resolved. i guess we'll see, but i do think he goes a bit overboard when he says "this isn't what storytelling and filmmaking should be about."


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 10:22pm

Post #49 of 220 (1104 views)
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Is that he has give DoS 4 / 5 stars? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


demnation
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 10:23pm

Post #50 of 220 (1111 views)
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This is what I was afraid of [In reply to] Can't Post

DOS satisfies those who wanted a faster pace and more action thrills, but those who actually care about story and character are left disappointed. Looks like PJ took criticism of the first film too close to heart. Can't please everyone, I guess.

Hello!

(This post was edited by demnation on Dec 6 2013, 10:23pm)


Macsen
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 10:23pm

Post #51 of 220 (1264 views)
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I remember... [In reply to] Can't Post

The Guardian gave ROTK a negative review.


happydood
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 10:23pm

Post #52 of 220 (1253 views)
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This quote: [In reply to] Can't Post

"though I concede most audiences are probably not in need of much more and are likely going to enjoy this episode better"

is the most telling thing he said. These films are not art films. They are pop art films and there is a big difference. I'm always puzzled what standards some kinds of critics use to judge something against. If it does what its trying to do well doesn't that objectively make something worthwhile?

His tones smells a little to me like someone who wants to play the game of 'you're not in the know like me because you don't know anything about Ingmar Bergman.' I'm not averse to negative takes, but I'll pass on that one.


Olorin2607
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 10:24pm

Post #53 of 220 (1252 views)
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Another one of those that just want to somehow hate it. [In reply to] Can't Post

Really.. critics can go screw themselves. If this is the direction and style of the reviews to come I have not further interest in reading them.
Nothing against criticism but that is just hating for hate's sake.


Hsvfan
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 10:25pm

Post #54 of 220 (1222 views)
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Yep [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

yes and he gave auj 3/5


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 10:25pm

Post #55 of 220 (1215 views)
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I dont think so [In reply to] Can't Post

Some reviews tell that Bilbo, Tauriel, Bard etc are all in spotlight.


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 6 2013, 10:26pm

Post #56 of 220 (1186 views)
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Ummm ... they actually praised ROTK ... [In reply to] Can't Post

Link.

They have their criticisms with the film and the trilogy in general, but I'd say that is positive.



(This post was edited by DanielLB on Dec 6 2013, 10:27pm)


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 10:26pm

Post #57 of 220 (1246 views)
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great review [In reply to] Can't Post

a tad scattered but each paragraph has some gems of insight, thanks!


Dipling
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 10:27pm

Post #58 of 220 (1181 views)
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? [In reply to] Can't Post

Didn't they screen the movie in 24 fps (non HFR) for the press?


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 10:29pm

Post #59 of 220 (1155 views)
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well, we'll see [In reply to] Can't Post

just because a few people feel that way and just because this one has more action doesn't mean you'll find it devoid of story or character. we've already seen clips that prove there's at least a little of that! i think his point was he could feel a thematic core to the first one in terms of how Bilbo comes to decide to help the dwarves and he misses something like that in this one, which is more about rising dramatic action. thematically, it might not stand well completely on its own, but it might work well once we have TABA to follow it up.


Elskidor
Rohan


Dec 6 2013, 10:29pm

Post #60 of 220 (1122 views)
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Yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

But that is how critics have been for awhile now, and it has been a growing trend to hate popular things, for the sake of being....like everyone else. Critics have seemingly gotten worse and worse as the years go on. I wonder when the last time a movie has received a 100% from critics...I reckon it has been quite a long time.


Macsen
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 10:31pm

Post #61 of 220 (1133 views)
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No... [In reply to] Can't Post

That's not the review I read in the paper! Called it bloated and childish.


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 10:32pm

Post #62 of 220 (1120 views)
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i do think that some of his points are contradictory... [In reply to] Can't Post

...or overly smug, but overall it's a good review. i just think it's a review that's trying to tell us something we can't really understand until we see the movie for ourselves. doesn't mean we'll agree with him, but at least maybe we'll have a better sense of how he can praise this as an improvement and yet also call it a step back for a lack of thematic resolve when he knows there's a third part coming. hard to really come to grips with that reasoning without seeing the movie for ourselves.


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 10:33pm

Post #63 of 220 (1114 views)
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I think that [In reply to] Can't Post

Now critics who gave a poor score for AUJ would likely be love DoS (Holly Report, Variety, Guardian) but some who liked AUJ may give this lastest installmest lower (From now it is only The playlist).


demnation
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 10:34pm

Post #64 of 220 (1072 views)
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You're right [In reply to] Can't Post

And I have to see it and judge for myself, of course. But the style over substance thing is something I felt even LOTR struggled with sometimes, so I shan't be too surprised if DOS goes the same way.

Hello!


Escapist
Gondor


Dec 6 2013, 10:36pm

Post #65 of 220 (1051 views)
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It's a little hard to judge [In reply to] Can't Post

without having seen the movie and with so few reviews out there.

At least the review was a review of the movie, not complaints about some technology advancement, or an advertisement for a reboot of star wars.


demnation
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 10:37pm

Post #66 of 220 (1039 views)
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I'm not so sure [In reply to] Can't Post

He acknowledges that DOS lacks some of the meaning and resonance that (he thinks) AUJ had. I think he is very much judging these movies on their own terms.

Hello!


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 6 2013, 10:38pm

Post #67 of 220 (1048 views)
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Are you sure it was The Guardian? [In reply to] Can't Post

I doubt an online review would be different from the printed version. From the TORn archives, the only other review from Guardian is this one: link, which is also positive.



Jax_Teller
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 10:40pm

Post #68 of 220 (1030 views)
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Some of these negative reviews, oh boy... [In reply to] Can't Post

I brisked through two of the negative reviews, and Indiewire's makes me think that they have a problem with the story itself, the original material.

I don't get why some of these critics are so cynical.

Blunt the knives, bend them forks, smash the bottles and burn the corks.

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates !


NecromancerRising
Gondor

Dec 6 2013, 10:42pm

Post #69 of 220 (975 views)
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He also used words like [In reply to] Can't Post

a.....s and d....s.What else can we say? Laugh


marillaraina
Rohan


Dec 6 2013, 10:44pm

Post #70 of 220 (939 views)
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subject [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
DOS satisfies those who wanted a faster pace and more action thrills, but those who actually care about story and character are left disappointed. Looks like PJ took criticism of the first film too close to heart. Can't please everyone, I guess.


I disagree the problem is these people seem to have issues with the fact that the storylines don't resolve and they are left with a cliffhanger.. It's like taking instant gratification a little too far if having to wait for a story to resolve is considered a flaw.


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 10:45pm

Post #71 of 220 (959 views)
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Afraid that Indiewire will give it negative too [In reply to] Can't Post

erickohn ‏@erickohn 49m
I agree with Jordan here. Dragon rocks (as does a barrel-based action scene); the rest, eh


jtarkey
Rohan


Dec 6 2013, 10:47pm

Post #72 of 220 (937 views)
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Why do people think critics have something against these movies? [In reply to] Can't Post

Isn't it possible that some people aren't thrilled with the way they are turning out?

Critics write reviews year round. It's their job to mention things they found problematic and the things they liked.

I love how when reviews are looking good everyone is all "YES! THIS IS GONNA BE AWESOME!!!"

Then when some bad reviews pop up, the tune changes to "I DON'T BELIEVE A WORD OF THIS!!"

How about seeing the movie first? It's as if people think that every critic has been dying for this movie to hit the screen. To some people, it's just another movie and they will likely judge it the same way as the 100s of other films that come out each year.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"

^^^ That unnecessary apostrophe and "e" is due to the leaf itself. And this part of the signature was documented quite some time after the effect had worn off.

(This post was edited by jtarkey on Dec 6 2013, 10:53pm)


Olorin2607
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 10:51pm

Post #73 of 220 (899 views)
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That's not it. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's people like that Jordan Hoffmann who clearly has not written a valid negative review like the one from indiewire maybe is, but is simply trolling.

Not a "real movie"... seriously?


(This post was edited by Nagini6 on Dec 6 2013, 10:52pm)


MTRougeau
Bree

Dec 6 2013, 10:53pm

Post #74 of 220 (845 views)
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Exactly! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you.


ShireHorse
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 10:53pm

Post #75 of 220 (914 views)
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That is a fantastic review from The Guardian! [In reply to] Can't Post

This is the only seriously intellectual newspaper in the UK and Peter Bradshaw is very mean with his stars. And yet he has given it 4/5. Marvellous! On top of that, he has written a great review, quoting from Tolkien and his attitude to story-telling and then musing that Tolkien may just have appreciated what PJ is doing.

He uses lots and lots of positive adjectives and phrases and he is really looking forward to next year's finale.

Being a reader of this paper and knowing Bradshaw well, I was dreading what he was going to say. I can now go to bed happy in the belief that I now KNOW that I shall enjoy DoS.


Nightwing
Bree


Dec 6 2013, 10:54pm

Post #76 of 220 (1241 views)
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"The one character of any substance in the picture is Tauriel." [In reply to] Can't Post

The one character of any substance is Philippa Boyens' own wish fulfillment Mary Sue? Sounds promising. Unimpressed I truly hope that's not the case. That would be obnoxiously self-gratifying.

The Silmarillion (film series)
The Flight of the Noldor - Beren and Lúthien - The Children of Húrin - The Necklace of the Dwarves - The Fall of Gondolin - The War of Wrath

Someday.


happydood
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 10:54pm

Post #77 of 220 (1106 views)
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I know there'll be some who don't like it and I'm not gonna fall apart... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll be as objective as I can about it. I readily admit all of AUJ faults and I really only had to point out the one negative Smaug review I didn't like. That was because dude said 'I can see how people will like this movie' and then implied they'd be wrong to.

Well... why, exactly?


MTRougeau
Bree

Dec 6 2013, 10:55pm

Post #78 of 220 (1094 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

Hoffman's review is clearly garbage. But there are other less than positive reviews that seem to have legitimate complaints, yet they are dismissed as wrong, or better yet, the reviewer is cynical and stupid! Isn't it possible the the movie simply isn't as good as other movies that get universally more positive reviews?


Jax_Teller
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 10:56pm

Post #79 of 220 (1069 views)
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Well, it's possible [In reply to] Can't Post

Obviously, some people won't legitimately like it, but what I'm seeing in those negative reviews is a misunderstanding of the original material, there's really this sort of expectation of a clone of LOTR or something, when The Hobbit is tonally different, and will get closest to LOTR style with TABA (in tone).

There's also a lot of cynicism, that i don't quite understand, reminds me of the Star Wars prequel movies in that sense.

Blunt the knives, bend them forks, smash the bottles and burn the corks.

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates !


Olorin2607
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 10:59pm

Post #80 of 220 (1061 views)
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There aren't that many reviews yet. [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's see where it stands 24 hours later. That will probably give more insight.


Jax_Teller
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 11:04pm

Post #81 of 220 (1004 views)
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Yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

The word on Twitter is very strong, but I do dislike that you see sometimes critics praising the movie in a tweet, and then doing a review that doesn't correspond to it.

Blunt the knives, bend them forks, smash the bottles and burn the corks.

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates !


Fili
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 11:04pm

Post #82 of 220 (1009 views)
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Agreed [In reply to] Can't Post

I really think there is this expectation to clone LOTR in style and grandeur. And it's very clear that critics carry baggage over the "one book=three books ARRRGH" thing because they keep bringing it up.

The indiewire review is formed much better than the ScreenRush one (which isn't a great feat), but he clearly had a hangover beef from the press of last year, and I still can't tell whether the overall beef with this particular film is either lack of character development or lack of resolution (and frustration over a cliffhanger).

“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”


Escapist
Gondor


Dec 6 2013, 11:07pm

Post #83 of 220 (1008 views)
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a few reasons [In reply to] Can't Post

(1) The recurring story about animals being hurt sans the efforts to deal with it
... popping up right before reviews are written ... every time a new installment appears ...
... without any new insight / facts to report about the incident

(2) The fact that last year, half of the reviews were about the technology
... following a scurfuffle between PJ and several important personalities in the business

(3) The numerous attempts to doomsay the first installment using the art
... of knowing what is bad about a movie before even seeing it, or trailers of it, or any finished clips of it
... otherwise known as prejudging / self-fulfilling prophecy and other codenames
(I am not talking about the complain train on this topic that continued after it started)
(I am talking about the fact that it started even before the first trailers were even out)

(4) The many terrible other controversies that really very nearly stopped the movie from even being made
... and actually delayed its production repeatedly and for long bouts of time
... including a change of director, controversy over the location of the movie, and changes in actors for the movie
... a spattering of lawsuits and the dreaded sense that reasons are being looked for to make more ... any reason ..
(among other things)
... someone having severe burns on set and the problems with the animals off set
... a series of natural disasters including earthquakes and volcanoes

So: doom and gloom predictions at the beginning stages writing off the whole project because of another movie entirely unrelated to this one, evidence of industry backlash related to both technology and changes in peripheral contracts for things like toys, actual lawsuits, threatened lawsuits, the movie actually almost not being made, the movie being repeatedly delayed, controversy surrounding nearly every decision made about the movie, and one director actually giving up - all seemed to signify that it may be possible that there could exist some individuals who are close to the industry and are critics who may find their response to the movie somewhat affected in some way or other by something other than the movie itself.

It seems clear that some people aren't happy and that it isn't because of the amount of action in any given 30 minute section of the movie or a cliffhanger ending. This is well beyond "typical" in a way that varying pace and cliffhangers are not.


Osskil
Bree

Dec 6 2013, 11:07pm

Post #84 of 220 (1056 views)
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At last! A well-written review. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks, Guardian. A good review, well written, engaging, and aware of its own language. Less of the "cute" pop-culture speak. I'm feeling pretty hopeful for this film.


(This post was edited by Osskil on Dec 6 2013, 11:09pm)


Thorin's Oakenshield
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 11:12pm

Post #85 of 220 (1128 views)
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Glowing tweet from David Ehrlich [In reply to] Can't Post

https://twitter.com/...s/409081357776609280

He's one of my favorite critics, so this is nice to hear.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Dec 6 2013, 11:16pm

Post #86 of 220 (992 views)
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That's a brilliant, well-written review [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks so much for posting it.


In Reply To
http://www.theguardian.com/film/2013/dec/08/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-review



Arannir
Valinor


Dec 6 2013, 11:20pm

Post #87 of 220 (957 views)
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He tries to make the negative review... [In reply to] Can't Post

... about bad film-making (though saying that the apparantly easy to please audience will dig it up) but ends up bashing what is quint-essentily Tolkien (his worst criticism, after all, hits characters such as Bilbo, Thorin, Beorn and Smaug).

Sorry, I know it is silly to argue against a review when one has not seen the film yet, but that one is typical for me for a review that was pretty much decided when this became a trilogy.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


daemoon
Rivendell


Dec 6 2013, 11:20pm

Post #88 of 220 (1015 views)
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80% on RT atm [In reply to] Can't Post

Let's see how much will decrease in the next 24 hours.


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 11:21pm

Post #89 of 220 (962 views)
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Rottentomato just start up DoS's score [In reply to] Can't Post

It 's 80 not bad at all. I think it will get lower but hope that not below 75 is great for me.


ShireHorse
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 11:22pm

Post #90 of 220 (916 views)
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I agree and I said so on page 3. [In reply to] Can't Post

And yet, rather than analyse a beautifully written, insightful review from the Guardian, people would rather analyse a load of garbage from some stupid blogger and then proceed to do a lot of breast-beating.

Everyone, go and read the Guardian review. It's written by someone who can actually write and who quotes from Tolkien in his article. Isn't that worth something? Isn't he more to be believed than someone who can't string a sentence together?


tsmith675
Gondor


Dec 6 2013, 11:22pm

Post #91 of 220 (980 views)
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Or increase [In reply to] Can't Post

SmileWinkFrownTongueCoolBlushAngelicCrazyMadShockedLaughUnsureUnimpressedSlyPirateEvilEvilHeart

"Seriously, why was the scene with CGI dwarf ass NOT in the theatrical cut?!"


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 11:22pm

Post #92 of 220 (994 views)
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From my memory [In reply to] Can't Post

AUJ start at 70 I'm not sure but not over 75.


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 11:28pm

Post #93 of 220 (912 views)
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well, i know that's not gonna be true for me [In reply to] Can't Post

i'm more than confident in the characters of Bilbo, Gandalf, and Thorin in these films, at least.

sound like Balin could have a bit more to do than what he gets but we've already seen some lovely bits from him in the clips and trailers.

also sounds like Smaug is wonderfully realized based on the other reactions, regardless if his body is all CGI and so some don't recognize that as a character.


Olorin2607
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 11:32pm

Post #94 of 220 (913 views)
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Increase.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink Not so much doom and gloom please!

One thing worries me though: The last action sequence against Smaug: if that is as law-of-physics-defying as I fear it will be... well that's really disappointing. PJ did not learn from the Goblin-town sequence as it seems.

And that's a pity since a battle against Smaug should be somehow believable.


(This post was edited by Nagini6 on Dec 6 2013, 11:32pm)


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 11:32pm

Post #95 of 220 (857 views)
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i think both it and Variety are the best reviews so far [In reply to] Can't Post

Empire's is good, too, but a bit more cheeky.

Guardian's has the best writing.

The Playlist is pretty well-written, nevermind that it's rather negative. seems to have some good points, but does get a little confusing.

Hollywood Reporter's is fine but kind of glib.

ScreenCrush's is the worst so far. points aren't clearly made and it's just insulting to say we should all agree that these aren't "real" movies.


unexpectedvisitor
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 11:37pm

Post #96 of 220 (839 views)
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yeah, pay most attention to the critics you respect [In reply to] Can't Post

i find it strange that we pay more attention to this nebulous aggregate percentage, as if that is somehow gonna show us what we will think of the movie, than we do to the opinions of the critics we trust and who show that they invested in the movie, for better or worse.

if there's a critic that you really respect and often agree with who pans the movie, you can be disappointed about that--though know that your opinion of the film can still differ from theirs, so don't necessarily preemptively judge the movie based on it. but a website percentage or the views of someone you're not even copacetic with? don't let it bother or concern you, peeps!


BartTheBowman
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 11:41pm

Post #97 of 220 (956 views)
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Time Out London's Keith Uhlich likes it! [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.timeout.com/...-desolation-of-smaug


Fili
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 11:43pm

Post #98 of 220 (784 views)
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I don't find it strange. [In reply to] Can't Post

"Things that are good to have and days that are good to spend are soon told about, and not much to listen to; while things that are uncomfortable, palpitating and even gruesome, may make a good tale, and take a deal of telling anyway."

Therefore, I have a lot more fun beating my chest at reviews I find uncomfortable and gruesome! Laugh

“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”


hobbitrunner
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 11:44pm

Post #99 of 220 (817 views)
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80% on Rotten Tomatoes [In reply to] Can't Post

4/5 fresh it so far...

Hope it improves or generally stays in this region. As I recall, AUJ started out at 80% last year, too.


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 11:51pm

Post #100 of 220 (822 views)
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Thx and great! [In reply to] Can't Post

Time Out loved AUJ too
now it is only Indiewire and The Playlist who loved the first but hate DoS.


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 6 2013, 11:57pm

Post #101 of 220 (1086 views)
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with 5 in... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... there is no indication possible, however. Anything can happen, really, at this point one review can totally change the score. AUJ remained around 80%, however, when the number climbed and than started to fall hard.

A reason for hope is, however, that all magaznes/critics that are in so far improved their rating (or their general tone if no score is given) and one has even turned from rotten to fresh (Hollywood Reporter) except Hoffman, of course, who pulls the much more important average rating down atm.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Dec 6 2013, 11:59pm

Post #102 of 220 (1062 views)
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This is why [In reply to] Can't Post

Asa director you have to make the film you want to make. Not the film you think people want you to make. I know it's a business deal and you need to find some compromises there, but in the end, you have to believe in your vision and make it.

the audience either buys it or it doesn't. for me, I don't get too involved in the technical aspects. I just like a film or not. Is it a good story? Did I enjoy it? Was the acting solid? Was it written well and did I find it engaging? Did I laugh? Cry?

Those are the things I look at. The rest of it..well I leave that to others. I just either enjoy it or not without trying to overthink it.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 12:01am

Post #103 of 220 (1066 views)
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Hmm If my memory is not that bad [In reply to] Can't Post

i remembered that AUJ had started with 70 - 75.


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Dec 7 2013, 12:01am

Post #104 of 220 (1080 views)
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Most well written review thus far, however... [In reply to] Can't Post

...I'm still irked by how many reviewers both last year and now cite the Bag End scene as AUJ's problem. I have some lingering issues with the film, but the Unexpected Party is NOT one of them. I actually think it's one of the most perfect parts of the film. Same thing goes for the complaints of the songs - I love them.

That said, this review is very good - and nice to have a positive review that's noticeably missing the cynicism of the HR and Variety reviews. It's looking like the critical reception overall will be better than AUJ, but not quite up there with LotR. Just hoping that I enjoy the movie. Smile

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Dec 7 2013, 12:04am)


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 12:05am

Post #105 of 220 (1109 views)
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Empire 4/5??? [In reply to] Can't Post

Why did RT count the Empire article as a 4/5? Typo?

That would explain why the average rating is at 6 and not at 7.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Dec 7 2013, 12:06am)


The Red Avenger
Rivendell

Dec 7 2013, 12:08am

Post #106 of 220 (1036 views)
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Ignore the Screen Crush review. [In reply to] Can't Post

Couldn't get past just over one paragraph of the Screen Crush review without saying something.
"Listen, there’s a grey-bearded wizard who warns in low tones about a place that sounds like “Doggledoor.” - what an arse.
It's pathetic so called reviews like this that damage the RT score. Every other review by a "real" reviewer and not a 12 year old scrote is overwhelmingly positive. I think you'lll also find the comments under this "diatribe" are particularly cutting.
Ignore this review everyone, it's not even a well written one. It's obviously somebody who wants to be the first person to write a really scathing review.
Constructive Criticism is valid. Making your mind up about a movie you are not remotely interested in seeing and finishing with "I didn't even like the first one" is a pointless review in my book
Avoid


daemoon
Rivendell


Dec 7 2013, 12:09am

Post #107 of 220 (1051 views)
Shortcut
70 at Metacritic atm [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.metacritic.com/...-desolation-of-smaug


vader815
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 12:17am

Post #108 of 220 (969 views)
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yeah [In reply to] Can't Post

Not to pick at hairs, but Variety's certainly sounded more like an 80-85 to me.

Playlist's review may be well written, but it's a preposterously conceived premise. What horrid slush I suspect some of these critics would think of Tolkien's pages instead of Jackson's films.


haarp
Rivendell


Dec 7 2013, 12:20am

Post #109 of 220 (959 views)
Shortcut
7 [In reply to] Can't Post

The Guardian is anything but intellectual.


Kendalf
Rohan


Dec 7 2013, 12:29am

Post #110 of 220 (920 views)
Shortcut
Erm... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
This is the only seriously intellectual newspaper in the UK


What?!!!!! Crazy

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


Kendalf
Rohan


Dec 7 2013, 12:35am

Post #111 of 220 (872 views)
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Indeed [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Thanks, Guardian. A good review, well written, engaging, and aware of its own language.


Yep, a pleasant surprise. Bradshaw is usually such a self-regarding and, arguably, miserable reviewer that this positivity it a real bolt from the blue Smile

A very good sign indeed Smile

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


BartTheBowman
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 12:37am

Post #112 of 220 (966 views)
Shortcut
IGN gves 8.5 [In reply to] Can't Post

Not sure if this has been posted before...
http://m.ign.com/...f-smaug-video-review


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 12:37am

Post #113 of 220 (958 views)
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RT 83%, Average Ratin 7.5 [In reply to] Can't Post

I know that does not say anything yet, but afterwards it might be interesting to see how the score evolved.

(I also know it says 6.7 on RT as average rating, but they have a typo for the Empire review)


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Dec 7 2013, 12:38am)


Calmandcloudless
Lorien


Dec 7 2013, 12:38am

Post #114 of 220 (869 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

...it does have the most challenging crosswords ;)


Kendalf
Rohan


Dec 7 2013, 12:41am

Post #115 of 220 (872 views)
Shortcut
Hmm [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
5 out of 5 stars from Empire! Sweet!


That the world's leading movie magazine should give the year's biggest movie 5 stars should come as no shocker; they need to stay in the studios' good books in order to keep the exclusives coming...

Personally, it's the positive reviews from other respected publications that are exciting me more Smile

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


Kendalf
Rohan


Dec 7 2013, 12:43am

Post #116 of 220 (846 views)
Shortcut
Ha! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Well...it does have the most challenging crosswords ;)


Laugh

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 12:44am

Post #117 of 220 (882 views)
Shortcut
Great... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that several critics say that the Tauriel/Kili romance is not coming off as cheezy at all but that it actually adds to the story... EL in general gets much more positive mentions than I had thought. Great. Maybe not a purist favourite, but she seems like general audience/fan favourite material. Mary Sue seems an inaccurate label for the role.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


paleiko
Registered User

Dec 7 2013, 12:45am

Post #118 of 220 (839 views)
Shortcut
Average Rating RT [In reply to] Can't Post

is currently at 6.7 which is basically the same as the first Chapter....


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 12:46am

Post #119 of 220 (836 views)
Shortcut
no, it should be 7.5 [In reply to] Can't Post

They have a mistake in there and counted the Empire one 4/5 instead of 5/5.

But this is not representative yet anyway.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


BartTheBowman
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 12:49am

Post #120 of 220 (896 views)
Shortcut
Full article by Jim Vejvoda [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.ign.com/...tion-of-smaug-review


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 12:52am

Post #121 of 220 (862 views)
Shortcut
Better reviews, more sell-outs, more screenings... [In reply to] Can't Post

... the later two are tracked for some areas of the US by a user from BO.com


If all of this will generalize AUJ's BO with a little extra becomes more and more possible :)


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


The Red Avenger
Rivendell

Dec 7 2013, 1:01am

Post #122 of 220 (799 views)
Shortcut
An idea of what to expect from UK newspaper reviews. [In reply to] Can't Post

A description of the major UK newspapers.
Guardian - left wing, tends to be very fair. Film reviews by people who like movies.
Times - Right wing owned by Murdoch who owns Fox. Could go either way
Telegraph - Right wing but can also surprise.
Daily Mail - Utterly Right Wing Propaganda Machine - horrible in every aspect. Also has Chris Tookey as film review who doesn't like 99% of movies he reviews.
Daily Mirror - Left wing low brow - seems more interested in Reality TV than real news - David Edwards critic - usually very very hard to please.
Daily Star - utterly low brow - owned by guy who runs OK mag, Channel 5 and some porn mag. Thinks women's breasts are news. They do tend to like blockbusters tho, even the rubbish ones
Sun - or as we call it the S*n - I don't read it being a Liverpool fan - google why?
Independent - The Lib Dems of the Newspaper world - tries to please everybody, ends up pleasing nobody. Reviews either way
Express - too busy writing Diana Conspiracies to care about anything else. Might be bothered to review
Chances of Tookey or Edwards giving positive review slim to no chance - still Tookey liked LOTR - but gave the Dark Knight zero because of the pencil trick and then went on to use 3 quarters of his review explaining why movies like this aimed at children are horrible. Also gave Kick Ass zero, but Pride and Prejudice 5 stars. Loves anything that evokes old Victorian England, hates anything else Somebody once asked Simon Pegg was he his own worst critic to which Pegg answered "No Christopher Tookey is my worst critic"
So to sum up. Star might be ultra positive, S^n - don't care, Express could be positive, Independent, likely to be positive, Mail won't be (I'll be really surprised if it is, same goes for Mirror.), Times could go either way. So could Telegraph


Escapist
Gondor


Dec 7 2013, 1:08am

Post #123 of 220 (775 views)
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AUJ didn't take a hit at the BO or with general audiences. [In reply to] Can't Post

There is a little less competition (and the economy is slightly better, too). I wouldn't be surprised if DOS does really well.


Glóin the Dark
Rivendell

Dec 7 2013, 1:09am

Post #124 of 220 (744 views)
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And what do you expect from Kermode in The Observer? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm rather disappointed not to see what Philip French would have written about it.


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 1:10am

Post #125 of 220 (750 views)
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The competition... [In reply to] Can't Post

.... issue is discussed differently by different people. This year there are more movies overall around christmas and with Frozen and CF two major blockbusters which still go strong.

However, I tend to agree with you that DoS has no such competition as Django and Les Mis last year, at least not internationally.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Dec 7 2013, 1:11am)


Joe20
Lorien


Dec 7 2013, 1:11am

Post #126 of 220 (1128 views)
Shortcut
The Wrap... [In reply to] Can't Post

Positive review.
http://www.thewrap.com/...jackson-second-verse


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 1:14am

Post #127 of 220 (1012 views)
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Yes!!! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote

As it turns out, Tauriel gives the film an emotional core that reminds the audience that, even among dragons and elves and Orcs and dwarves, all of their feelings are completely human.



Nevertheless, it’s triumphantly engaging in a way that rivals Jackson’s magnificent “Two Towers” — and best of all, it makes you eager to see the next film in a way that “The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey” didn’t. Powerful and provocative, “The Desolation of Smaug” not only surpasses its predecessor but also stands on its own; where “Journey” took material audiences thought they knew and made it feel foreign, this one creates a uniquely original experience that also feels securely familiar.




Also, the cliffhanger seems to be harsh but in a good way... most critics seem to accept it.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Dec 7 2013, 1:16am)


Escapist
Gondor


Dec 7 2013, 1:16am

Post #128 of 220 (978 views)
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Frozen [In reply to] Can't Post

appears to pick up the demographic that drops off the lower end of the age spectrum of DOS (being a bit darker and more serious than AUJ).


MatthewJer18
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 1:18am

Post #129 of 220 (1088 views)
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Very positive from HitFix: 'The Hobbit' improves in every way with the thrilling 'Desolation Of Smaug' [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.hitfix.com/...-desolation-of-smaug


tsmith675
Gondor


Dec 7 2013, 1:21am

Post #130 of 220 (967 views)
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I was just about to post this... [In reply to] Can't Post

Really enjoyed reading this review. Most of the reviews that have been coming out tonight have been written very well. As opposed to some of the ones that were released a few hours ago, that were very poorly written.

"Seriously, why was the scene with CGI dwarf ass NOT in the theatrical cut?!"


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 1:23am

Post #131 of 220 (959 views)
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... [In reply to] Can't Post

I really like that paragraph about Jackson and his crew, as well as how he thinks the dwarves get personalitie by now.

And many here will be happy to read what he says about Gandalf's powers.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Dec 7 2013, 1:24am)


Joe20
Lorien


Dec 7 2013, 1:26am

Post #132 of 220 (956 views)
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It's great to hear the (mostly) positive reaction to Tauriel. [In reply to] Can't Post

I've kept an open mind to her presence in the story (I was a little worried but certainly never against the decision.) So it's really pleasing to find out that she seems to actually give something to the story. Smile


book Gandalf
Rohan


Dec 7 2013, 1:28am

Post #133 of 220 (989 views)
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guardian uk [In reply to] Can't Post

dont know if its been linked ot yet, byut guardian uk gives it 4 stars. i havent actually read the review though.

i am quite shocked by the journalist peter bradshaw giving this 4 stars. he is usually such a film snob.

This is a serious journey, not a hobbit walking-party.


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 1:44am

Post #134 of 220 (1024 views)
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Total Film 4/5 [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.totalfilm.com/...-desolation-of-smaug

Same as AUJ, critic feels that it feels very much like a middle movie but offers plenty still.

Special mentions go to Smaug and, yet again, EL's Tauriel Smile


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Dec 7 2013, 1:48am)


The Red Avenger
Rivendell

Dec 7 2013, 1:45am

Post #135 of 220 (939 views)
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Why AUJ was not the movie we thought it would be.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I'm beginning to understand the risk of three movies. Lets get something straight, AUJ is a bit of a missed opportunity in that it only covers six chapters. I like the film, I just don't love it, on its own but in a three story arc it might just be an understated beginning. After TABA we will know for certain. However I think I've worked out the strategy behind this.
I think they have perhaps enough story for 2 and a half movies that one of the movies was going to suffer. The original idea was two movies with a break at the end of the barrel's scene, this means Beorn, Mirkwood, Spiders, Elves would have also been in the first movie. That's a lot to cram into one 3 hour movie. Then if you have all the events of Laketown, Smaug, Build up to 5 armies, five armies itself and return home then you have a crammed 3rd film as well. Of course the Necromancer bridging stuff too has to be shoe-horned in there as well. The only problem is, is that the first film under the new structure only cover the first 6 chapters and the journey mirrors that of Fellowship anyway. Hobbiton, Trollshaws, Rivendell, Mountain, Under Mountains. it's almost identical. But this is a product of the story not the fault of Jackson. So perhaps the plan was to sacrifice AUJ to the trilogy making DOS and TABA the outstanding films we hope they will be. If those two films are as good as the LOTR trilogy then the trilogy itself should swallow up AUJ. I don't hate that film, far from it, there are many parts I love. I just feel there is not enough story in it. Much like the book the first half of the story is quite light and it's only when they reach Laketown that it takes a real turn for the more somber storytelling. The films seem to mirror this which is why there is hardly any real danger in AUJ until the climactic face off with Azog.
I'm really looking forward to DOS, I've always thought it would be the best of the trilogy as it has all my favourite bits in it (Apart from Riddles) but by leaving Smaug and Laketown until the third might make the third the best of the lot.


tsmith675
Gondor


Dec 7 2013, 1:51am

Post #136 of 220 (924 views)
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4/5 (or 8/10) [In reply to] Can't Post

Feels very much like the average ratings I've been seeing for DoS. Great news so far!

"Seriously, why was the scene with CGI dwarf ass NOT in the theatrical cut?!"


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Dec 7 2013, 1:57am

Post #137 of 220 (947 views)
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Looks promising... [In reply to] Can't Post

...for the most part.


Adanel
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 2:01am

Post #138 of 220 (844 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

As someone who enjoys the elves I am loving reading so many critics enjoying Tauriel. Over the last few months I have been reading so much Legolas/Tauriel angst here yet it sounds like most so far are seeing her as a great addition. There is little or no criticism of her taking away from the "real characters" which seems to have concerned so many people.
Most critics even seem accepting of the Kili romance which surprises me AND there are none of the seemingly inevitable moans about Orlando Bloom's acting yet although it does sound like he is too busy being a major badass to do much else.


demnation
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 2:04am

Post #139 of 220 (927 views)
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I'm getting mixed messages now [In reply to] Can't Post

Some reviews, like this one, complain about a lack of character arcs and forward momentum, while others commend the film for its deeper exploration of character and more thematic weight. I don't know who to trust!

Hello!


The Red Avenger
Rivendell

Dec 7 2013, 2:09am

Post #140 of 220 (863 views)
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Contradictions [In reply to] Can't Post

Yeah, I've noticed these mixed messages. Is there character development or is there not. It appears subjective to the viewer. How can one review say "Bilbo and Thorin begin to grow as characters" and another say "neither Bilbo or Thorin have any story arc" - surely one contradicts the other.


The Red Avenger
Rivendell

Dec 7 2013, 2:13am

Post #141 of 220 (837 views)
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Annoyed [In reply to] Can't Post

Still that utterly pointless Screen Crush review is the only thing stopping a 100% RT score.
Its not a review, it's a mean spirited spoke in the wheel.


demnation
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 2:18am

Post #142 of 220 (813 views)
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The only reason I bring it up [In reply to] Can't Post

is because comments about these kinds of things (i.e. Character development) tend to be pretty consistent for most movies. It does strike me as a little odd that DOS has wildly diverging assessments of these things. But god forbid that we actually see the movie and decide for ourselves! Wink

Hello!


Escapist
Gondor


Dec 7 2013, 2:21am

Post #143 of 220 (802 views)
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emotion [In reply to] Can't Post

Some people respond more to humor than others. Some seem to recognize any relationship other than love as simply inferior / uninteresting / less-than-real (like friendship, brotherhood, rivalry etc.).

Maybe for some people it is like the Velvetine Rabbit, it takes love to make it real for them?

I think it depends on the person and what they recognize as emotion or view as important in defining a person's character.

I also think that some characters got a lot of in-depth development and the rest got little to nothing. It's like a re-weighting of character emphasis. Let's say there are 65 "character points" to spend on 13 dwarves.

AUJ: 16,10,5,5,5,5,3,3,3,3,3,2,2 (need to introduce each of them so that they are at least recognizable / distinct)
DOS?: 30,15,5,2,2,2,2,2,1,1,1,1,1 (pick a few to develop along with story line - since the story now splits leaving them with less time on screen and they have already been introduced)

(this is just a guestimate of how it could be that some say there is more character development and others say there is less - it is more focused and less distributed amongst all the dwarves - sounds like)

***********not sure where to add these comments in - so I dumped them here *********************************

I also think the fandom for bad*** villains that earn fear and respect has a much greater following than the cackling nonsense of wacky villains (which I personally prefer - but I think that isn't the norm).

Furthermore, I think that there simply was more time available to work through the details on DOS compared to AUJ. That matters because even a small seemingly insignificant visual cue can jar a person out of suspension of disbelief / make them uncomfortable and looking for a reason to pin it on. AND ... consistency matters. If part is slow and part is fast, this makes it seem (to some people) like one of the parts should be wrong.

romance
consistency
evil villains that command fear and respect
more drama, less humor
new regions to explore
more of a human element (or should I say, the existence of humans at all and their concerns)
not having 15 characters to introduce all at once


hamlet
Rivendell


Dec 7 2013, 2:29am

Post #144 of 220 (803 views)
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As Gandalf said to Frodo in FOTR EE: [In reply to] Can't Post

 
You must trust yourself; trust your own strength.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Dec 7 2013, 2:31am

Post #145 of 220 (740 views)
Shortcut
Skipped over the more spoiler-ish parts... [In reply to] Can't Post

...and inadvertently read a few things I didn't want to, but enjoyed reading this review. I really want this film to be great, although I'm trying to be cautious and not get too amped up like I did before AUJ.


acigos00
The Shire


Dec 7 2013, 2:42am

Post #146 of 220 (718 views)
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I know [In reply to] Can't Post

this is not about a review or something, but I just wanted to share this vid I just found

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BjHDjfSk9Ak

Angelic


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 2:46am

Post #147 of 220 (730 views)
Shortcut
IGN review [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.ign.com/articles/2013/12/07/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-review


Elutherian
Rohan


Dec 7 2013, 2:51am

Post #148 of 220 (679 views)
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Not sure... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I agree with most of those.

I especially don't like that the best scene of all the films, The Ride of the Rohirrim, is excluded entirely.

The Grey Pilgrim, they once called me. Three hundred lives of men I walked this earth, and now I have no time...


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 2:57am

Post #149 of 220 (702 views)
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IGN video review [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9JCieLqNH84&feature=youtube\_gdata


acigos00
The Shire


Dec 7 2013, 2:59am

Post #150 of 220 (704 views)
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NOW THAT'S MORE LIKE IT!!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I just love the feeling I had more than 10 years ago watching this films in december... I dont know, it was a great feeling for me.... to relate this movies with christmas ........ everytime I watched this films, even if it was in the middle of july, I always got that weird sensation that "It must be christmas time already" !!! lol...... Im so happy I get to live all those feelings again!!!!!! :D


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 7 2013, 3:07am

Post #151 of 220 (1263 views)
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While I disagree with many of the scathing details, I DEFINITELY understand what he is saying about [In reply to] Can't Post

certain elements, and I am inclined to believe him about those aspects. "In fact, rather than calling it a sequel, 'The Desolation of Smaug' is better served described as an episode. And the episodic, middle chapter-itis that is currently hurting the modern day tentpole sequel is fully evinced... As facile and conventional as these ideas may be, ‘An Unexpected Journey’ was actually about something; ... In contrast, ‘Smaug’ is about almost absolutely nothing. “The Further Adventures Of Chasing Gemstones That Mean Something Or Other To The Dwarves” might be a better suited subtitle as it is simply designed to keep this behemoth franchise moving forward and nothing more. So while ‘Smaug’ has forward-momentum, and is replete with battles and evil conflicts... it’s actually the lesser and emptier of the two films (though I concede most audiences are probably not in need of much more and are likely going to enjoy this episode better)...But for those who desire more than just dynamic roller coasters, they might feel incredibly stymied. The strain of what was originally conceived as one story running the course of two movies, now stretched to its limits with a third picture, is deeply felt...Elsewhere in the various tangents of this overlong story, nothing of merit is really taking place, other than the building blocks for 'There And Back Again...again (sigh) it’s all narrative teases that amounts to TUNE INTO THE NEXT EPISODE TO FIND OUT WHAT REALLY HAPPENS."

Now, I doubt he is right to say there is "no" character and plot development. Indeed, I expect a lot of character moments. HOWEVER. with the choice to piece meal Dol Guldur, and to end the movie with NOTHING and neither of the situations even partly resolved (very different from the quite satisfying Two Towers Ending), opting instead for a general cliffhanger with Smaug, and an almost unbelievable and forced cliffhanger with Gandalf, if the reports are true, then much of that aspect of this criticism is hard to ignore as merited.

"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Fili
Lorien


Dec 7 2013, 4:05am

Post #152 of 220 (1125 views)
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I see what you're saying. [In reply to] Can't Post

I liked how the Two Towers ended with the victory of Helms Deep and the fall of Isengard. There was a sense of closure, and yet there was still the question of the One Ring and Sauron.

Still, I don't think ending a movie with a full-bore cliffhanger is a bad thing. Now, it didn't seem to work for Perez here because he didn't think there was any good character and plot development to make him care enough, so he felt cheated. Other critics are saying different things in that regard, however.

So I dunno. I can't wait to see how it all plays out when I see it, but I'm certainly not going to go in expecting doom because DOS isn't going to have a Two Towers ending.

“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Dec 7 2013, 4:11am

Post #153 of 220 (1102 views)
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For myself [In reply to] Can't Post

I have always viewed this as one movie not three. It's one movie split into 3 parts. I guess in that respect I sort of adopt a wait and see attitude and I wonder if some of us might feel differently after we see all 3.

In that respect I have no issue with the cliffhanger in DoS. It makes sense to me. You want people coming back to see the rest of the movie. It is really serial in that respect I think. It's one story. Not 3.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 4:18am

Post #154 of 220 (1134 views)
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**** them [In reply to] Can't Post

It down to 71 percent with that The playlist's review but only 7 reviews counted for now.


BartTheBowman
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 5:42am

Post #155 of 220 (1110 views)
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another very positive one from screendaily! [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.screendaily.com/reviews/the-latest/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug/5064454.article?blocktitle=REVIEWS&contentID=40296


Osskil
Bree

Dec 7 2013, 5:53am

Post #156 of 220 (977 views)
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Agreed! [In reply to] Can't Post

I marvel that the lyricism, wit, and warmth of those early passages has been seen as such a flaw in the film. They were, I thought, the most beautiful and engaging part of AUJ.


happydood
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 5:56am

Post #157 of 220 (1018 views)
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Things are looking up. [In reply to] Can't Post

Good news. The current Rotten Tomatoes score is a little depressing, but there are other positives out there that haven't been tallied yet...


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 6:06am

Post #158 of 220 (991 views)
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untill this time [In reply to] Can't Post

I have only seen 2 negative reviews from Screencrush and The Playlist but they are added to tomatometer already. The other negative coming will be Indiewire's so prepare for that.


Joe20
Lorien


Dec 7 2013, 6:06am

Post #159 of 220 (993 views)
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I wouldn't take much notice of Rotten Tomatoes just yet. [In reply to] Can't Post

That will fluctuate like crazy for a long while. There will be at least another 200 reviews before we settle on a number


jmeyer2039
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 6:19am

Post #160 of 220 (957 views)
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Why is it depressing? [In reply to] Can't Post

What were you thinking it would score?
Based on Twitter reactions earlier this week, I was expecting around a 75 metascore/fresh percentage which is pretty good, IMO, considering that these movies are not really critic material. They're currently 72/71 but with only a handful of reviews. I suspect those numbers will rise slightly after most have been counted. Maybe things are being cherry-picked here, but I feel like the positive reviews and reactions from critics to negative ratio has been better than the current 5:2 and that they enjoy DoS considerably more than AUJ which was a 58/65. We already know of multiple big sources scoring DoS higher than AUJ and none scoring it lower (correct me if I'm wrong), so it makes little sense for it to end up lower than the current 71.


happydood
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 6:31am

Post #161 of 220 (919 views)
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Don't misunderstand me, [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not doomsaying at all. Merely passing the time as I repeatedly refresh this thread for more reviews. Which is merely passing the time between now and when I get to see this.


pulpfiction16
Rivendell

Dec 7 2013, 6:32am

Post #162 of 220 (962 views)
Shortcut
So according to this forum - [In reply to] Can't Post

"Reviews and critics don't matter! They don't know how to properly judge fantasy"

(Unless the reviews are good!)

Yeesh.


Annatar598
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 6:50am

Post #163 of 220 (928 views)
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That's taking it to an extreme [In reply to] Can't Post

The negative reviews are poorly written.

Not to mention the disparity between the reviews. The mixed reviews are well written and I can see why the movie didn't click but the negative reviews so far have been born out of some personal "thing" with the material.

It's truly unfortunate Rotten tomatoes publishes every review! some are clearly written just to start a click bait flame war (numerous cases have been seen before and not only in TH).


Joe20
Lorien


Dec 7 2013, 8:26am

Post #164 of 220 (862 views)
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Two reviews from Middle-earth News [In reply to] Can't Post

Spoiler free Review

Spoiler heavy recap and review


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 8:39am

Post #165 of 220 (761 views)
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Don't overdo it with the critic bashing [In reply to] Can't Post

I know especially the Hoffmann one is aggrevating.

But this is a genre franchise... there are bound to be people who feel like that - also among the audience. And that is who these critic represent.

We know there are much more positive reviews in the pipeline and Empire is still in there with a wrongscore ;) That should give us enough positive energies not to rob oursselves of any believability because we lay in on the negative ones but all too easily embrace the good ones (they could be just as wrong when it comes to our personal opinion ;) ).


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 9:20am

Post #166 of 220 (712 views)
Shortcut
silveramigos video review [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cdAk02s_ycg


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 9:30am

Post #167 of 220 (735 views)
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Apparantly RT moderators decided Empire should be counted as 4/5... [In reply to] Can't Post

... not a typo after all?!

At least some people explained to me that the RT moderators decide that themselves from time to time.

Really?


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 9:34am

Post #168 of 220 (714 views)
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Save review [In reply to] Can't Post

On Metacritic is 100/100. ???


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 9:41am

Post #169 of 220 (692 views)
Shortcut
I think on both sites the moderators decide in the end... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but since Empire is clearly meant to be a 5/5 maybe it will be a typo in the end.

This would bump up the score to 7.1 immediately.


With all the positive reviews still not posted on RT the score should start climbing towards 80% again today, though with (again, the much more important) average rating climbing to 7.0 or slightly above.


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 9:43am

Post #170 of 220 (754 views)
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Summary [In reply to] Can't Post

This was not made by me but a poster called Darth_Hoodlife91 on imdb. So thanks to him. A "certified fresh" might be possible.


Total Reviews: 15
Total Positive:13
Total Negative:2


Percentage of Positive Reviews: 87%
Average Rating: 7.6 out of 10


Positive Reviews:13
Avg. Rating of Positive Reviews: 8.4 out of 10
Empire Magazine(5 out of 5)
http://tinyurl.com/n2s7nzf
Topless Robot
http://tinyurl.com/ky6bagk
The Guardian(4 out of 5)
http://tinyurl.com/kel6p3r
The Hollywood Reporter
http://tinyurl.com/nedszso
Variety
http://tinyurl.com/p5wwfbs
Hitfix(Rated B+)
http://tinyurl.com/kcp2p9n
The Wrap
http://tinyurl.com/mgrxkhe
Time(mini review)
http://tinyurl.com/jvkbzmr
Total Film(4 out of 5)
http://tinyurl.com/kdf69yk
Ripe Movies(7.5 out of 10)
http://tinyurl.com/n32l2mb
W.L Swarts(7 out of 10)
http://tinyurl.com/lp77djo
Comingsoon.net(8.5 out of 10)
http://tinyurl.com/lxuygwg
IGN(8.5 out of 10)
http://tinyurl.com/ldmqgjv

Negative Reviews: 2
Average Rating of Negative Reviews: 4.5 out of 10
Screen Crush(4 out of 10)
http://tinyurl.com/nc2v7w9
The Playlist(Rated C)
http://tinyurl.com/o4y43wg


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Dec 7 2013, 9:45am)


MatthewJer18
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 10:03am

Post #171 of 220 (714 views)
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Negative from the Telegraph. [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/...of-Smaug-review.html


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 10:10am

Post #172 of 220 (676 views)
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I thought... [In reply to] Can't Post

... that much more reviews would sound like this:


Quote
But that was always going to be the drawback of spinning out a 276-page children’s story into more than eight hours of blockbuster movie



So I hope the many positive reviews indicate that at least quite a lot of critics got over the three movie split.

To be fair, he certainly adds the voice of those to the reviews who simply had wished for "TH - the book and not much more". That is very valid, although I am personally so glad they did not do that. So in this case his disappointment with the extension may actually be good news for people like me.

It pushed the RT rating down quite a bit... I hope the 10+ missing positive ones will soon add theirs to RT.


Before the first reviews came out I had hoped for a score around 75%... I may cautiously raise my hopes to low 80s...


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."

(This post was edited by Arannir on Dec 7 2013, 10:12am)


Olorin2607
Lorien


Dec 7 2013, 10:24am

Post #173 of 220 (614 views)
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Very curious that RT obviously adds negatives first. [In reply to] Can't Post

//


BornOutOfTheWest
Rivendell


Dec 7 2013, 10:24am

Post #174 of 220 (608 views)
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Ouch, [In reply to] Can't Post

Was hoping for more than 2 stars from The Telegraph....Unsure


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 10:27am

Post #175 of 220 (593 views)
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Yes and that melted 78 to 70 immedietly [In reply to] Can't Post

so sad


Danielos
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 10:30am

Post #176 of 220 (1199 views)
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TORN [In reply to] Can't Post

So when are we going to see the reviews from TORN-community?


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 10:32am

Post #177 of 220 (1193 views)
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Quickbeam just posted his review :) [In reply to] Can't Post

 


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


BartTheBowman
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 10:43am

Post #178 of 220 (1230 views)
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Very positive from Time Out London [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.timeout.com/...-desolation-of-smaug


Kendalf
Rohan


Dec 7 2013, 10:46am

Post #179 of 220 (1129 views)
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Spot on, mostly [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
A description of the major UK newspapers


That seems pretty accurate, though I'd disagree about the Independent; it's as Leftist as anything else out there.

To be honest, the only newspaper reviews I'll be paying much attention to are from the Telegraph, Times, Guardian and maybe the Indy.

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


(This post was edited by Kendalf on Dec 7 2013, 10:47am)


DanielLB
Immortal


Dec 7 2013, 10:48am

Post #180 of 220 (1112 views)
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It will be interesting to compare them all with how they reviewed ROTK [In reply to] Can't Post

The BBC] summarised all the major newspapers back in 2003.



Kendalf
Rohan


Dec 7 2013, 10:49am

Post #181 of 220 (1109 views)
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Me too [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
i am quite shocked by the journalist peter bradshaw (in the Guardian) giving this 4 stars. he is usually such a film snob.


Indeed. This is my most pleasant surprise so far Smile

"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."


Danielos
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 10:56am

Post #182 of 220 (1105 views)
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Looking forward to TABA [In reply to] Can't Post

I think casual fans and reviewers will be very surprised of the carnage and darkness that will erupt in the last film. Major characters will die like flies Game of Thrones-style. An abrupt shift in tone compared to now where the dwarves seem invulnerable to anything.


Hopefullt the last film will get the rave reviews LOTR had.


Shagrat
Gondor

Dec 7 2013, 11:30am

Post #183 of 220 (1113 views)
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This was inevitable [In reply to] Can't Post

Robbie Collin hated the first, and, regardless of his pretence, is not Tolkien fan - he didn't even know what the Arkenstone was. His AUJ review screamed of a reviewer trying to make a name for himself with that tagline: "As a lover of cinema, Jackson's film bored me rigid; as a lover of Tolkien, it broke my heart." Headers like that just scream attention-seeking.


(This post was edited by Shagrat on Dec 7 2013, 11:32am)


BartTheBowman
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 12:07pm

Post #184 of 220 (1142 views)
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Anothr positive one [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.overallsite.com/...lation-smaug-review/


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 12:15pm

Post #185 of 220 (1075 views)
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This would change the positive-negative ratio... [In reply to] Can't Post

... to 14:3.

Or 82% positive :)


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


The Red Avenger
Rivendell

Dec 7 2013, 1:27pm

Post #186 of 220 (987 views)
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Telegragh: Quelle Surprise - Robbie Collins [In reply to] Can't Post

Robbie Collins is not a Tolkien fan.
The man didn't even know what the Arkenstone was - there is your proof right there.
Telegraph, I said could go either way - I forgot he was their reviewer.
I don't mind negative reviews, not everybody can like everything. But the manner in the way some of them are written it's like they are done just to get a rise out of people. Sarcasm is the lowest form of wit and these are sarcastic and damn right insulting. If you have valid criticism, try not to dress it up with sarcasm, you'll have more respect.


mefansmum
Rivendell

Dec 7 2013, 2:15pm

Post #187 of 220 (819 views)
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I don't mind this review because it shows [In reply to] Can't Post

what a total waste of time it is for him to review TH.

He so clearly does not get it at all and from his complaints, even if PJ had made a simple movie faithful to the book and only the book, he would have been just as unhappy. There is no way this story could be made into something he would like without being turned into another story.

I understand where he is coming from, there would be no point in me reviewing many movies I just don't get at all, some of them other people love.

If a critic doesn't rule themselves out of reviewing something of no interest to them, the public just has to ignore their review.


Noria
Gondor

Dec 7 2013, 2:21pm

Post #188 of 220 (810 views)
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I think that the critics should evaluate DoS as a movie, not as an adaptation, nor as Tolkien fans [In reply to] Can't Post

The latter two are for us to do. The critics have their own agendas, and being human, their own quirks and biases.

It’s always pleasant when something you like gets praised, but the only reasons I care at all about the reviews are for the sake of the people who made the movies.

Good reviews could help the box office, which is the only way the success of a movie is really measured in this world.

It’s got to be rewarding for the makers of the movie, from PJ himself to the lowliest craftsperson, to see their group effort praised rather than panned.

Otherwise, the crtiics can say what they like. I’ll make up my own mind next week.


Glóin the Dark
Rivendell

Dec 7 2013, 2:46pm

Post #189 of 220 (887 views)
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Twenty bonus points for the first person who can... [In reply to] Can't Post

...find review in which the barrel sequence isn't compared to a theme-park ride.


Kullervo
Rivendell


Dec 7 2013, 3:03pm

Post #190 of 220 (865 views)
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So far... [In reply to] Can't Post

...every single one of the reviews I've read have praised the barrel escape. Some even call it easily the best action sequence of the year (which is high praise in the year of "Gravity"), but most everyone seems to agree it is amazingly entertaining and innovative. The theme-park ride comparisons have been made to be positive. And I can't imagine how they could be negative, unless you don't like theme-park rides. Most people do. I think they are both fun and terrifying. And I like fun, and I like to be terrified (safely). Hard to think who wouldn't.


jmeyer2039
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 3:17pm

Post #191 of 220 (742 views)
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I didn't think you were doomsaying [In reply to] Can't Post

Just sincerely wondering where you think the average or median score will end up. :] I'm also just keeping myself hyped by going through the positive stuff here. I loved AUJ despite its lower scores and am thrilled that people are generally liking DoS more so far.
I'm still thinking ~75 although maybe 70 is more realistic. Hopefully higher than both of those, though!


cartermoulton
Bree


Dec 7 2013, 3:45pm

Post #192 of 220 (700 views)
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great find [In reply to] Can't Post

i checked his thread and it's now up to 16 positive, 3 negative (including the telegraph) (84%)

"the road goes ever on and on..."


happydood
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 4:37pm

Post #193 of 220 (649 views)
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Well there's another negative from Slant... [In reply to] Can't Post

and he has some legitimate complaints. Gonna have to check the book purist in me at the door if I wasn't already prepared to do that and just expect a fun movie.


(This post was edited by happydood on Dec 7 2013, 4:38pm)


anthonyroy
Bree

Dec 7 2013, 4:39pm

Post #194 of 220 (643 views)
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64% on RT right now [In reply to] Can't Post

Hopefully more positives raise it soon. Slant Magazine this time with a rotten - http://www.slantmagazine.com/film/review/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 4:42pm

Post #195 of 220 (691 views)
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where the hell the other positive reviews [In reply to] Can't Post

hitfix timeout etc.


Escapist
Gondor


Dec 7 2013, 4:48pm

Post #196 of 220 (608 views)
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shenanigans! [In reply to] Can't Post

Are they actually leaving out select positive reviews? Are you sure?
And if so, is anyone still wondering why some people suspect that there are some elements within critical circles that have it in for these movies?


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Dec 7 2013, 4:55pm

Post #197 of 220 (590 views)
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They do seem to be [In reply to] Can't Post

There are at least 6-8 positive reviews, all from RT publications, that they have not included, whereas every negative review has been included. When combined with the odd downgrading of the Empire review from 5 stars to 4, it really does seem to be a deliberate attempt to damper enthusiasm for this film.

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Danielos
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 4:56pm

Post #198 of 220 (568 views)
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Sad if true! [In reply to] Can't Post

The Slant review was good. My favourite scenes from LOTR were not the big spectacle but the well-acted quiter scenes. I would hate if The Hobbit descends into just shallow blockbuster territory. Still, there are so many people with short attention-spans that hate "slow", long movies and demand action scenes every other minute.
Maybe PJ cut out many of these character moments to avoid having a similar backlash again. Hopefully, we will get a more balanced pace in the extended edition.


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 5:02pm

Post #199 of 220 (543 views)
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No [In reply to] Can't Post

Hitfix, Time out, Total Film are its critics too. There must be some reason they dont want to add all of it as quickly as all negative pieces. you can search RT's critics from this http://www.rottentomatoes.com/critics/sources.php?view=&letter=h


(This post was edited by Wordofmask on Dec 7 2013, 5:03pm)


Danielos
Rohan

Dec 7 2013, 5:13pm

Post #200 of 220 (498 views)
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Unfair! [In reply to] Can't Post

It breaks my heart to see these Middle Earth movies have so low ratings. The magic spell of the LOTR-times are long gone. But I think PJ and The Hobbit deserves better!


Elessar
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 5:23pm

Post #201 of 220 (752 views)
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That's why [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't give any credit to RT. They're a joke of a site.



Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 5:24pm

Post #202 of 220 (748 views)
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There still a long way to go [In reply to] Can't Post

11 critics cant settle score for sure and Metacritic DoS still has 67 that is really good if they keep it like that long enough.


Escapist
Gondor


Dec 7 2013, 5:25pm

Post #203 of 220 (765 views)
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missing 6 to 8 of the good reviews! I'm laughing, actually [In reply to] Can't Post

because the funniest part is that no one even cares - it blew up the box office last year and 99% of people are recorded as wanting to see it (if that number is correct).

People will see this movie anyway and all this does is make me decide that it is not worth my time to look at RT anymore!

Skip it ... the others are better.


pulpfiction16
Rivendell

Dec 7 2013, 5:28pm

Post #204 of 220 (736 views)
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Yeesh, did you bring enough tinfoil hats for everyone? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Dec 7 2013, 5:29pm

Post #205 of 220 (736 views)
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Oh, please... [In reply to] Can't Post

Every review will be added in due time. I'm sure there is a valid reason why some reviews get added sooner than others. Stop with the conspiracy theories. Besides, doesn't Warner Brothers basically own Rotten Tomatoes?


happydood
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 5:29pm

Post #206 of 220 (731 views)
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Remember, it is the weekend before and the movie hasn't opened yet... [In reply to] Can't Post

So, many will be added over the next week. There's also a glowing review from TIME coming amongst the others. I'm still thoroughly expecting the final tally to wind up in the 80's, if the low 80's.

Speaking from the experience of having been on a short-lived cable show that was panned, I can tell you that many reviews will follow the big ones. (And that's not a justification for the show I was on, it really wasn't very good.) Many publications simply picked up the Variety and Hollywood Reporter reviews after the Associated Press carried them. I'm not sure if it still works that way, but that was the case about 7 years ago. Since Variety and HR are still the big ones, I'm expecting the reviews to overall remain pretty positive.


(This post was edited by happydood on Dec 7 2013, 5:31pm)


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 5:36pm

Post #207 of 220 (685 views)
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Maybe [In reply to] Can't Post

They have a problem about transfering reviews's score to RT score (note that not all of the reviews give a score like 4/5 stars or a numbers).


Fili
Lorien


Dec 7 2013, 5:36pm

Post #208 of 220 (702 views)
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It is kinda frustrating though... [In reply to] Can't Post

That RT seems to post the negative reviews as quick as they can while taking their time with the good ones. No, I don't think it's a conspiracy, but it is frustrating.

You're all right though: still a week before release and a crap-ton more reviews will be added in the following days.

“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Dec 7 2013, 5:44pm

Post #209 of 220 (678 views)
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RT [In reply to] Can't Post

And Reviews in general are just not my thing mostly because they tend for my taste to overanalyze movies (and not just The Hobbit either). I'm not into all the over analyzing, hashing every detail and trying to make something out of everything, whether good or bad.

for me, did you enjoy the movie or not. Period. I used to frequent the boards at RT back in the day with LOTR but when IGN took it over it became a total mudrucking site (not the reviews, but the forums). Ever since then I quit going there because I was mainly there for the forums and not for the reviews.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


frodolives
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 5:48pm

Post #210 of 220 (655 views)
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I don't think that's true [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That RT seems to post the negative reviews as quick as they can while taking their time with the good ones. No, I don't think it's a conspiracy, but it is frustrating.

You're all right though: still a week before release and a crap-ton more reviews will be added in the following days.

The reviews get posted as the reviewers submit them. Many films start with high ratings and drop. The new Hunger Games was in the mid 90s at one point. Even Man of Steel was high up there as well.


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 5:53pm

Post #211 of 220 (639 views)
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After The playlist's review [In reply to] Can't Post

I think we cant count on TIME's review anymore. Indiewire will give us negative review too.


Fili
Lorien


Dec 7 2013, 5:55pm

Post #212 of 220 (623 views)
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I didn't say it was true. [In reply to] Can't Post

I said its how it seems. Right now, anyway. If you read through these threads, there has been quite a few good reviews from legitimate sites that aren't up on RT yet, but every bad review (that I know of) is already there.

Do the reviewers have to submit it to RT themselves? I don't know, and don't really care. I'm just commenting on how it seems.

Don't try to wet-blanket my b***h-fest with facts! Laugh

“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 5:55pm

Post #213 of 220 (617 views)
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are there movies in RT [In reply to] Can't Post

That started with low score but end up at good score?


BartTheBowman
The Shire

Dec 7 2013, 5:55pm

Post #214 of 220 (615 views)
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Indiiewire is Playlist [In reply to] Can't Post

Playlist is the reiew section of Indiewire ,if I am not mistaken


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 5:58pm

Post #215 of 220 (615 views)
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So [In reply to] Can't Post

Why there are both Playlist and Indiewire's review in AUJ.

http://www.metacritic.com/movie/the-hobbit-an-unexpected-journey/critic-reviews


Olorin2607
Lorien


Dec 7 2013, 5:58pm

Post #216 of 220 (613 views)
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Why not? [In reply to] Can't Post

//


Wordofmask
Lorien

Dec 7 2013, 6:06pm

Post #217 of 220 (610 views)
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Dont you remember this link [In reply to] Can't Post

http://blogs.indiewire.com/thompsononhollywood/the-hobbit-the-desolation-of-smaug-review-and-roundup

"Peter Jackson continues his lighter, more swashbuckling tone with the second Hobbit movie, "The Desolation of Smaug," which serves as a bridge to the much darker and apocalyptic "The Lord of the Rings." While total war mounts, there's still time for the rollicking action of the barrel flume ride (a theme park ride if ever there was one) and the much anticipated encounter with the menacing Smaug (deliciously voiced by Benedict Cumberbatch), the greatest CG dragon ever created onscreen, thanks to the wizards of Weta.Like "The Two Towers," and in keeping with "The Godfather" and "Star Wars" trilogies, this middle movie might prove to be the most satisfying, freed from exposition and closure. And what a cliff hanger!"

What happend after that was quite negative review from The Playlist and somebody has showed us that some Indiewire's person didn't like DoS either.


Fili
Lorien


Dec 7 2013, 6:23pm

Post #218 of 220 (537 views)
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Yeah, you're right. Eric Kohn is his name. [In reply to] Can't Post

He agreed with the ScreenCrush crap review AND he had previously given AUJ a decent review.

Meh.

“So comes snow after fire, and even dragons have their endings.”


poochies
Rivendell

Dec 7 2013, 7:28pm

Post #219 of 220 (437 views)
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I agree 100 percent with you... the Slant review even said the barrel scene was [In reply to] Can't Post

deplorable.... looks like PJ ramped up the action in this one due to the luke warm reviews of AUJ..anyways I'm not expecting much from the Extended edition seeng as AUJ's was horrible


macfalk
Valinor


Dec 7 2013, 9:14pm

Post #220 of 220 (391 views)
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RT is a joke. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

 
 

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