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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thoughts on DOS (Having see it last night) *MAJOR SPOILERS*
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Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:20am

Post #126 of 219 (1220 views)
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Some of the best moments of the movie... [In reply to] Can't Post

If I didn't mention it, it's likely because I really enjoyed it. Mirkwood, Beorn, Laketown, the Spiders, Bard, Laketown, the Mountain, Inside Information are all spectacular good fun.

A sad side note is that the dwarves once again don't get a chance to develop too much further past what we saw in the first one. The forced climax with Kili being wounded was a bit cringe-inducing in that they tried so hard to rehash the FOTR moment with Frodo wounded.


thomasofrohan
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 3:21am

Post #127 of 219 (1108 views)
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Could you break down how his scenes play out, if you wouldn't mind? [In reply to] Can't Post

Including what they discuss in his house, etc.


MatthewJer18
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:23am

Post #128 of 219 (1144 views)
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Smaug [In reply to] Can't Post

Does he get his famous speech? "My armour is like tenfold shields, my teeth are swords, my claws spears, the shock of my tail is a thunderbolt, my wings a hurricane, and my breath death!"?

Do you recall Stephen Colbert's cameo?


(This post was edited by MatthewJer18 on Dec 6 2013, 3:24am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 6 2013, 3:23am

Post #129 of 219 (1093 views)
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I gave Arwen leeway due to her ancestor, Melain. [In reply to] Can't Post

She might not have dwelt among The Holy Spirits, but she has the heritage of one of their incarnate manifestations, so much so that she was said to be the living image of Melian's daughter, Luthien.

In Reply To
if it represents the seen and unseen as per book Glorfindel, as it is a trait only shared by those who have dwelt in Valinor. So the divergence from book canon leasves us with what can still be considered an internal movie consistency and not a mistake in this context.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


architecthis
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 3:24am

Post #130 of 219 (1095 views)
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People are speculating on what the film will be like [In reply to] Can't Post

Which is appropriate, when you consider the name of the forum...


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:27am

Post #131 of 219 (1138 views)
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Definitely go in with an open mind! [In reply to] Can't Post

I plan on rewatching it immediately to see if I warm up to it now that I know where it irked me the first go around. If anything my comments are just there to put this stuff out there for those curious.


StoneHex104
Rivendell

Dec 6 2013, 3:28am

Post #132 of 219 (1086 views)
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Thank you for replying and taking your time to answer these questions! [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:28am

Post #133 of 219 (1144 views)
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The score was great... [In reply to] Can't Post

Other than reusing Arwen's music from FOTR, the music was great, tastefully used and memorable.


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Dec 6 2013, 3:29am

Post #134 of 219 (1072 views)
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For sure [In reply to] Can't Post

and I gave that consideration as a possibility, but decided to stick with what was written as canon. Either way a glowing Tauriel does make the whole concept more common in the movies and diminishes what is unique about Arwen.


(This post was edited by ElendilTheShort on Dec 6 2013, 3:29am)


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:30am

Post #135 of 219 (1139 views)
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I won't spoil anything... [In reply to] Can't Post

But the Laketown sequence is full of fun and lively characters. A really great section of the movie while the dwarves are there.


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:31am

Post #136 of 219 (1140 views)
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No... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thranduil doesn't do any fighting. He has some great moments in the movie though. They make great use of the screen time he has.... minus the scar...


MatthewJer18
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:32am

Post #137 of 219 (1098 views)
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Could you elaborate on the scar? [In reply to] Can't Post

Perhaps the manner in which it is revealed, and how Thranduil conceals it?


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:35am

Post #138 of 219 (1196 views)
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It's a brief moment... [In reply to] Can't Post

Which is why I thought it so unnecessarily. Thranduil is taunting Thorin (in an otherwise really great scene) and he says that he knows the wrath of dragons and reveals a great scar on his face before allowing the skin to cover it back up.

It's a strange moment, Lee Pace's performance could have conveyed the sincerity of his warning to Thorin. They didn't need to physicalize it with a cheap gimmick that's been used before. For reference (I said a bit earlier too), look at the Skyfall scene when Javier Bardem's character removes his jaw piece to show his scars to James Bond.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Dec 6 2013, 3:37am

Post #139 of 219 (1101 views)
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One small question [In reply to] Can't Post

Are the dwarves all reunited before the end of the film, or does it end with them still separated and some (Fili, Kili, Bofur, etc.) not at Erebor?

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Dwarvenfury
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 3:40am

Post #140 of 219 (1066 views)
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Is this true? [In reply to] Can't Post

You said they used Arwen's music for a Tauriel healing scene.
I wonder how this can be? I don't doubt what you say, but I can't
refrain from wondering how this can be a positive.

Arwen's entrance in The Fellowship of the Ring and the accompanying music
engages me. The scene captivates and demonstrates the 'magic' of cinema.
If I recall correctly, this theme music accompanies Arwen at Aragorn's coronation as well.
I enjoy this music.

As with the reuse of Aragorn/Gondor coronation scene theme, I don't understand how this might be helpful.
For me, those scenes with its music captivated. I guess my speculation is premature.
I just hope it will make sense. oh well. Anyhow, I certainly am looking forward to this movie.


(This post was edited by Dwarvenfury on Dec 6 2013, 3:46am)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 6 2013, 3:41am

Post #141 of 219 (1082 views)
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This was one of my more feared scenario since speculation. Not the WORST case, mind, as [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf is not defeated by The Nazgul (Witch-King included) here, and hopefully will NOT be in the next films either. And certainly as he is not defeated by Azog... but I REALLY was hoping that they would lift some of the material and sequence options of a thrilling and epic nature which are already provided in the text. Giving Gandalf the massive confrontation of the Amon Sul battle against The Nine, instead of just Azog, and THEN having Sauron come in and reign as tie breaker, followed at least by the resolution of an escape with Radagast, leaving a call to arms for The Council and the great Assault on Dol Guldur for film three. Thus, epic moments that don't detract from the character's standing, drama, danger, satisfying partial resolution, with the promise of a greater conflict to come.

In Reply To
Beorn has about that amount of screen time. My expectations were that Gandalf would run into trouble in Dol Guldur and Radigast and Beorn would rescue him. But alas Beorn and Radigast disappear fairly quickly and the Dol Guldur material has been cut to a bare minimum.

Stephen Fry and all of Laketown are one of the delights. Lots of great material there.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Dec 6 2013, 3:48am

Post #142 of 219 (1034 views)
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Bard... [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for answering questions ts!

I am most looking forward to laketown. Does Bard do any fighting? And does laketown feel real? (The way places do in the original trilogy)

Thanks in advance!


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:49am

Post #143 of 219 (1281 views)
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Happy to answer more questions... [In reply to] Can't Post

But I thought I'd kind of wrap up everything with some final thoughts....

It seems to me that the most problematic scenes in the film are really the things they added over the summer with the reshoots.

This mostly includes:
Extending what I suspect was a much shorter version of Legolas and Tauriel fighting orcs in Laketown (in the original 2 film structure) to a full blown battle that lacks any consequence or a satisfying conclusion. In fact the end of this sequence is quite dull and sloppily shot. Legolas's duel with Bolg (which we know was shot in the summer) was particularly lame. Made worse by the fact that Laketown and it's citizens are completely absent from this section of the film. This digression really added nothing to the story (unlike the Osgiliath scenes in Two Towers which add a lot of drama and closure to the film)

Dwarves vs. Smaug - Not a terrible idea, but poorly executed. How are we supposed to fear for these characters when they are thrown around like superheroes. On top of that, I hate to beat a dead horse, the effects in this sequence were the worst of the film. Particularly the melting rivers of gold that, all due respect to WETA, look like something out of a pre-vis animatic.

Dol Guldur - When the reshoots occurred I assumed they were going to expand on this material and give us more story. Instead they've taken the 5-10 minutes of footage that was meant for AUJ (in the 2 film scheme) and butchered it across this film. It lacks suspense, substance and is among the sloppier moments of the film in terms of story telling, editing and effects.

I mentioned it earlier but the Osgiliath scenes in Two Towers are an example of PJ and Co. really expanding the story in an inventive way that feels true to the spirit of the mythology and also adds a dramatic flair that really worked for that film. Action-wise the staircase action beat in Moria in FOTR is an example of PJ firing creatively on all cylinders while remaining restrained and tasteful.

What DOS lacks is restraint, taste and reason behind a lot of it's choices and digressions, particularly in the third act, story-wise.


(This post was edited by Dcole4 on Dec 6 2013, 3:50am)


Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Dec 6 2013, 3:50am

Post #144 of 219 (1041 views)
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I hate reading your ideas... [In reply to] Can't Post

...because then I am always disappointed by what we actually get haha!

Hire this man!


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:50am

Post #145 of 219 (1042 views)
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Laketown is great [In reply to] Can't Post

One of the many joys that do lie in the film.


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:51am

Post #146 of 219 (1035 views)
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The Nazgul do not appear in this film. [In reply to] Can't Post

Gandalf simply encounters Azog and the Necromancer (sonic cloud thing)


MatthewJer18
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:52am

Post #147 of 219 (1005 views)
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If you could at use spoiler tags... [In reply to] Can't Post

It'd be lovely if you could tell us what specific scenes you thought were the best in the film. If you don't want to spoil, send me a PM.


(This post was edited by MatthewJer18 on Dec 6 2013, 3:53am)


Elessar
Valinor


Dec 6 2013, 3:52am

Post #148 of 219 (993 views)
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Um.... [In reply to] Can't Post

So if you liked the cgi you weren't paying attention? Ok. Crazy



LPUAdit
The Shire

Dec 6 2013, 3:55am

Post #149 of 219 (1008 views)
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Score out of 10? [In reply to] Can't Post

If you were to give it a score out of 10, what would it be? :)


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:56am

Post #150 of 219 (1041 views)
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No... [In reply to] Can't Post

Which feeds into one of the main problems with this film. The ending sucks. There isn't a sense of unity across the story lines, or even a sense of purpose. It kinda just ends. AUJ had that great moment with Bilbo and Thorin, it felt like there was closure, that an arc had come to an end. This film was all over the place and I didn't feel like any of the storylines had a proper ending.

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