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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thoughts on DOS (Having see it last night) *MAJOR SPOILERS*
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Jax_Teller
Rivendell


Dec 5 2013, 11:54pm

Post #101 of 219 (1488 views)
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Ridiculous [In reply to] Can't Post

You don't have to like the movies (by the way, you haven't even seen DOS yet, and TABA might be great too), but at least, be grateful that Peter Jackson brought Tolkien to the screen. All this whining, without Pete Jackson, there would be no Hobbit, nor LOTR movies, simple as that.

Blunt the knives, bend them forks, smash the bottles and burn the corks.

That's what Bilbo Baggins hates !


Aitieuriskon
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 12:00am

Post #102 of 219 (1459 views)
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It's a miracle! [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought I was the only one who kept harping on the lack of historicity to this distinction. Glad to see I'm not alone! Smile

"After all, I believe that legends and myths are largely made of 'truth', and indeed present aspects of it that can only be received in this mode; and long ago certain truths and modes of this kind were discovered and must always reappear." Professor Tolkien, 1951


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 6 2013, 12:13am

Post #103 of 219 (1377 views)
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Pffft. How do you know they don't? You just haven't met any Krypton natives. On Mars, I'M A Superhero [In reply to] Can't Post

When I can breathe and maintain my body heat. Cool

In Reply To
It takes place in the real world, yes, but it's about an unimaginably powerful, almost god-like superhero. It doesn't exactly stay within the realm of what "fits this world" because superheroes of that nature don't exist, so there's no reference for the type of destruction two super-powered beings cause in that film's third act.

We can't always use the "real world" as a comparison because some of these films take place in a heightened version of it - or sometimes another world entirely.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elizabeth
Half-elven


Dec 6 2013, 12:16am

Post #104 of 219 (1375 views)
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More likely... [In reply to] Can't Post

...it was in a bit of dialog that ended up on the cutting-room floor.








Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Dec 6 2013, 12:18am

Post #105 of 219 (1398 views)
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Give me a break... [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved the Star Wars trilogy...loved it. The lotr's films were the first to make me feel that way about films since Star Wars.

Now I hated the prequels. I don't even need to get into why... Heartless horrible cgi infested films.

Now I feel this way about the hobbit films (not on the level l feel for sw as there is still alot to like)

Are you saying that just because pj gave us these films (no matter how bad they are and no matter how bad he messes with Tolkien 's great work) ...I should just be grateful? ?

Bet you if Tolkien was still alive he wouldn't have dissrespected his work the way he has. I mean honestly, could you imagine someone doing a Harry Potter film and just changing things to suit themselves...the author would have a fit!


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 6 2013, 12:21am

Post #106 of 219 (1376 views)
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Not intending to patronize. Just vexed. lol. Yeah, it hurts the legendarium cosmology if [In reply to] Can't Post

one of the most widely seen formats of it implies things that are fundementally at odds with the cannon truth. He wouldn't see her as holy because she isn't. She may age into a spiritual state of lesser divinity, but she does not bear the Divine Light that some others would. And I agree, it does diminish Arwen in the same capacity. And I ask again, does Legolas gleam if he is standing in the room when it happens, or is it only Elves with female genitalia? Just excess in this case, confusing and misleading. Galadriel is SUPPOSED to radiate light. See also Glorfindel, seldom seen though he is. Tauriel? Not so much.

In Reply To
Sorry, but sometimes this can really come across a bit patronizing. But I guess I am the same way reversed.

I am not making excuses. I simply have another opinion. That - for example - what you call wrong does not feel wrong for the movie to me and imho does not hurt the professor's mythology.

Imho 99% of the audience will not care or think whether Arwen and Tauriel are on par or not (the whole hierarchy thing is imho anyway a totally false interpreted idea of Tolkien's idea of lines, heritages and beings), and a huge part of the remaining percentage will not automatically conclude that they are "the same" in that sense.

"She is just like the High Elves of the Third Age". Because Kili sees her radiating in a close-to-death moment? Well, yeah whatever... for me it really is creating issues where non exist but when it comes to those hierarchy things we can probably argue till the cows come home ;)


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Arannir
Valinor


Dec 6 2013, 12:41am

Post #107 of 219 (1306 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess we simply have such totally different opinions as of what is integral to the mythology and canon and what why and how works in the movieverse or not, especially these hierarchy and heritage things that we won't come together but will have many future debates ;)

The great thing is that we still agree on many other aspects and that such different ways of approaching Tolkien fuels board like this :)


“All good stories deserve embellishment."

Praise is subjective. And so is criticism.

"I am afraid it is only too likely to be true what you say about the critics and the public. I am dreading the publication for it will be impossible not to mind what is said. I have exposed my heart to be shot at."


RosieLass
Valinor


Dec 6 2013, 12:54am

Post #108 of 219 (1283 views)
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Some of us would be fine with that. [In reply to] Can't Post

Why should we be grateful for films that we think did a rotten job of bringing our favorite author to the screen?

They might be fun as films but as adaptations of Tolkien's work, they've gone steadily downhill since FOTR. And it sounds very much as if DOS might be the worst of the lot. So far...

"BOTH [political] extremes are dangerous. But more dangerous are team fanboys who think all the extremists are on the OTHER side." (CNN reader comment)

It is always those with the fewest sensible things to say who make the loudest noise in saying them. --Precious Ramotswe (Alexander McCall Smith)


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Dec 6 2013, 1:00am

Post #109 of 219 (1255 views)
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Fair enough. [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

In Reply To
I guess we simply have such totally different opinions as of what is integral to the mythology and canon and what why and how works in the movieverse or not, especially these hierarchy and heritage things that we won't come together but will have many future debates ;)

The great thing is that we still agree on many other aspects and that such different ways of approaching Tolkien fuels board like this :)


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


poochies
Rivendell

Dec 6 2013, 1:11am

Post #110 of 219 (1233 views)
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I'm with you on this one, seeng as AUJ was way too long to at the beginning at Bildos house... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think a condensed two movie version would have really helped this project...and it seems with DOS more problems are made with the filler PJ and company are making up... jeez leave it to the corporate heads to milk every penny out of Middle Earth before it's all over...


AncalagontheBlack
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 1:22am

Post #111 of 219 (1210 views)
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two or three [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't think anyone but Peter Jackson had anything to do with two vs three movies other than approving his request. I think he is telling the story according to his imagination and vision of adapting it and linking it the LotR trilogies. I think some will love the decision and the movies it generated, some won't and be critical of it. As soft spoken as PJ seems, I feel there is a strong persuasive aspect to his personality. All leaders possess the power of persuasion and I think he is behind the decision for three and making the movies he wants too whether it be to some peoples liking and not to the liking of others.


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Dec 6 2013, 1:37am

Post #112 of 219 (1163 views)
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besides, even Arwen should not glow [In reply to] Can't Post

if it represents the seen and unseen as per book Glorfindel, as it is a trait only shared by those who have dwelt in Valinor. So the divergence from book canon leasves us with what can still be considered an internal movie consistency and not a mistake in this context.


architecthis
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 2:09am

Post #113 of 219 (1185 views)
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What a shame [In reply to] Can't Post

I suspected as much based on the first film and all of the promotional material.

You are spot on with your miniature analogy also - when you use miniatures and practical effects it forces you to think through sequences in a more practical manner and grounds the film in reality. This contributed to the success of the LOTR.

Great review and thanks for tAking the time to post.

Don't waste your time responding to all the fanboys who want to question everything you say on here just for the sake of questioning you.


Name
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 2:30am

Post #114 of 219 (1126 views)
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I don't think so. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Don't waste your time responding to all the fanboys who want to question everything you say on here just for the sake of questioning you.


He says he didn't think the movie was that good. Others so far have mostly praised it, including notable critics of AUJ. It's a legitimate topic to discuss, and thus we question the reviewer.

But honestly, a select few of us have even seen the movie. I suggest you hold your judgement until you leave the theater some time in the next few weeks.

My name is Name, which, name-wise, is a much better name than your first name, last name, or name's name could ever plan on naming themselves.


Voronwë_the_Faithful
Valinor

Dec 6 2013, 2:35am

Post #115 of 219 (1101 views)
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You have seen it? [In reply to] Can't Post

It appears from your comments that you have, and further that you disagree with the negative opinion expressed by Dcole4. Care to elaborate on what you disagree with? Or anything else about the film that you'd like to share?

'But very bright were the stars upon the margin of the world, when at times the clouds about the West were drawn aside.'

The Hall of Fire


Annatar598
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 2:53am

Post #116 of 219 (1093 views)
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Early reactions suggest otherwise [In reply to] Can't Post

Critics so far think otherwise.


ElendilTheShort
Gondor


Dec 6 2013, 3:06am

Post #117 of 219 (1013 views)
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please take note [In reply to] Can't Post

the OP did say he had focused on negative aspects of it only and there were many aspects that he thought were good.


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:08am

Post #118 of 219 (1071 views)
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Answer [In reply to] Can't Post

The opening in Bree is one of my favorite sequences. Fits nicely among the best in the series.

Dol Guldur, for me at least, was not very gripping sadly. The editing seemed off, again likely the result of cutting around Thrain.

Gandalf goes in ----> Cast a spell trying to break the concealment shrouding Dol Guldur -----> attacked by Azog------> Almost immediately confronts the necromancer and is put in a cage.

It is sadly not a whole lot of material. Seemed like a wasted opportunity for Peter to explore his horror roots


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:10am

Post #119 of 219 (1065 views)
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Yup [In reply to] Can't Post

Definitely no complaints. Same goes for anything not mentioned. Especially the atmosphere established in Laketown.


thomasofrohan
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 3:12am

Post #120 of 219 (1018 views)
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Beorn [In reply to] Can't Post

Does he only have about five mins of screentime, as reported by a magazine? Did you like the actor in the role?

Does Stephen Fry get decent screentime?


(This post was edited by thomasofrohan on Dec 6 2013, 3:12am)


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:14am

Post #121 of 219 (1069 views)
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Answers [In reply to] Can't Post

Beorn has about that amount of screen time. My expectations were that Gandalf would run into trouble in Dol Guldur and Radigast and Beorn would rescue him. But alas Beorn and Radigast disappear fairly quickly and the Dol Guldur material has been cut to a bare minimum.

Stephen Fry and all of Laketown are one of the delights. Lots of great material there.


(This post was edited by Dcole4 on Dec 6 2013, 3:15am)


architecthis
Lorien


Dec 6 2013, 3:15am

Post #122 of 219 (968 views)
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I agree with you [In reply to] Can't Post

Arwen having healing ability was a BIG deal and the decision to duplicate the effect with Tauriel was irresponsible


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:15am

Post #123 of 219 (1059 views)
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I won't say... [In reply to] Can't Post

I told you I wouldn't spoil the good bits :D


thomasofrohan
Lorien

Dec 6 2013, 3:16am

Post #124 of 219 (982 views)
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So do his scenes go by very fast, then? [In reply to] Can't Post

That's a bit disappointing.


Dcole4
Rohan

Dec 6 2013, 3:17am

Post #125 of 219 (1015 views)
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They make good enough use of him... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's fairly brief, but well spent. Likely the result of initially being part of the climax of AUJ in the 2 film scheme

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