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Annael
Immortal
Nov 17 2013, 4:01pm
Post #26 of 99
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a friend of mine is German-American and he dislikes French accents too. Also, although he speaks three languages himself (English, German, & Japanese) and can imitate people very well, if you talk to him and put on a French accent he can't understand what you're saying. Some kind of ingrained cultural thing?
I'm not sure if it's related but in my family we're mostly Celtic (Scottish with a dash of Irish) and I married another Scottish-American, my sister married a man who was Irish & Welsh, and my older brother married a woman whose ancestry is mostly Welsh. It's like we're just naturally attracted to other Celts.
The way we imagine our lives is the way we are going to go on living our lives.
- James Hillman, Healing Fiction
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NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967
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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
Nov 17 2013, 5:46pm
Post #28 of 99
(490 views)
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Your speech was compared to Meryl Streep's, widely recognized for her mastery of various accents. 
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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
Nov 17 2013, 5:51pm
Post #29 of 99
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that certain languorous southern drawls can be rather mesmerizing, but I think, as you observed, subtlety is key. 
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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
Nov 17 2013, 5:58pm
Post #30 of 99
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LOL! Well, I guess there's hope then for some of us "ugly Americans!" ;-)
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Some believe we have charisma when we open our mouths. (Thanks, to a certain degree, to how Hollywood represents us overseas.)
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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
Nov 17 2013, 7:18pm
Post #33 of 99
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Nov 17 2013, 7:51pm
Post #34 of 99
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Or they had a cool Principal who had a southern wife. They lived in Georgia for 10+ years, and his wife was music director (weirdly enough, she had NO accent at all in her singing voice). They got the habit started at school, and it stuck.
I never call someone who was not a schoolmate, by their first name. My more mature coworkers sometimes ask me to call them by their first name, so I just add the honorific 'Miss', or 'Mister' to the beginning of their name. It is hard to stop. A good thing I suppose. I try to substitute 'miss' every once in a while when they are younger.
You wouldn't believe how many Northerners get offended by it, though!! A sampling of the responses I have gotten:
"I'm not an old man/lady!!'
''Stop calling me that!!'
''Now don't you 'ma'am/'sir me!!''
''I am not that old!!'',
''Do I look old to you!!??'',
Call me Rem. Rembrethil is a lot to type!!
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Lissuin
Valinor
Nov 17 2013, 8:18pm
Post #35 of 99
(480 views)
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Do our Southern friends recognise this?
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I had a school friend reared (not raised) in Arkansas in the 1950's who said her mother would not allow them to say "I'm full" after a meal. They were required to politely state, "I'm sufficiently satiated, thank you." I would have given anything to hear tiny little children rattling that one off.
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Nov 17 2013, 8:27pm
Post #36 of 99
(467 views)
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I think it is polite, but people especially from the NE of the country find it offensive. If I had to guess, I would say that it is because the area is riddled with a sarcastic and snarky attitude (In my personal experience). I think that they may believe it to be disingenuous or mocking, maybe???
Yeah, my principal's kids (3-12 yrs of age) would say, 'Yes/No, thank-you', 'Yes/No, Ma'am/Sir' and other polite usages. It was especially cute in the youngest. I will say though, they were the best behaved/coolest children I have ever met.
Call me Rem. Rembrethil is a lot to type!!
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Magpie
Immortal
Nov 17 2013, 8:48pm
Post #37 of 99
(452 views)
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... as a Midwesterner ...
is that part of this negative reaction stems from the fact that it is not used often. And when it is used, it's often used in a patronizing way. For example, someone being reprimanded or guided in their behavior saying 'Yes Ma'am' but meaning, I have to agree with you in words but I won't in attitude or tone.
Or when a shopkeeper is being berated by a customer saying, 'Calm down ma'am'. They're using 'ma'am' as if they are being respectful but again, it's only barely so.
And in many of those cases, they are assigning an attribute of 'old' or 'older' to the person. They might as well be thinking 'you old coot'.
But I kind of think the heart of not using it is that we aren't so keen on layers of 'status'. I think we feel ourselves equal no matter what station or position and it kind of irks on us to feel we have to assign an elevated status to others.
I will admit, I bristle even at using 'Sir' for those that are knighted. Or Maestro. Or any title that isn't necessary to clearly identify a skill (like Doctor).
I can't speak for everyone in the 'north' but I don't know that I'm out there by myself on this one.
If the tone is sincere, I am not insulted by the use of ma'am. And it is very common to hear it from military folk. It's just that, because I don't hear it often, the negative tones will always outweigh the good hearted tones.
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Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea
Nov 17 2013, 9:22pm
Post #38 of 99
(427 views)
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I don't care how groan-worthy that is - still gave me a chuckle. LOL
"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence
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The Grey Elf
Grey Havens
Nov 17 2013, 9:31pm
Post #39 of 99
(440 views)
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I can't say that I'm crazy about being addressed as "Ma'am"
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But I certainly don't take offense at it. What bothers me more is when a salesperson or a waiter decades younger than me addresses me, sometimes repeatedly, as "Miss." It just comes across as a transparent attempt to stroke my ego in order to get themselves a sale or a better tip. Has anyone else experienced this?
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor
Nov 17 2013, 10:10pm
Post #40 of 99
(432 views)
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It's still considered 'good manners' in this part of the North...
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though not always applied, but we're still quite close to the Mason-Dixon Line, so we're a lot more "Southern" than many people have expected us to be.
The Miss [first name] thing is used a lot in pre-schools and daycare centers...and also by adults when a youngster has crossed a line, but is not yet worthy of the "full name of shame address". ;)
Miss, Ma'am, and even Hon' are all terms of address you can expect to hear from those working 'retail' and in food services around here when appropriate for the situation. (Well, Hon' not so much, but it's meant kindly.) I admit, it can be a bit jarring the first time you're addressed as Ma'am instead of Miss. Dang whippersnappers! Git off my lawn! ;)
We still have some distinct local accents, too, including a heavy Scottish one I've had to translate for reporters. =)
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NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Nov 17 2013, 10:30pm
Post #41 of 99
(426 views)
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Yes, as a child, I could tell how much trouble I was in by the amount of my name used:
First name= Very mildly Irritated
First and second= I didn't listen the first time
Full name= I have definitely not done something I was specifically told to do.
Call me Rem. Rembrethil is a lot to type!!
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Rembrethil
Tol Eressea
Nov 17 2013, 10:31pm
Post #42 of 99
(412 views)
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I like to think I always sound sincere, but it might just be rote habit sometimes.
Call me Rem. Rembrethil is a lot to type!!
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Dame Ioreth
Tol Eressea
Nov 17 2013, 10:40pm
Post #43 of 99
(416 views)
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You're from my neck of the woods!
Balmer, Hon! Go Os! 
Where there's life there's hope, and need of vittles.
― J.R.R. Tolkien, The Lord of the Rings
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 17 2013, 11:21pm
Post #45 of 99
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by letters written to me by Government organisations that give me the honorific Mrs - I assume because I'm of a 'certain age' and marriage at some point is assumed.
Actually, to be honest I'm more annoyed by letters that call me Mr! (I'm sorely tempted to send them back with 'not at this address' scrawled on the envelope.)
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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Roheryn
Tol Eressea
Nov 17 2013, 11:51pm
Post #46 of 99
(395 views)
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in front of first names to be a bit surprising at first but rather endearing, when I lived in Louisiana for a few years. As an adult, coming from more northerly and westerly parts of the US, it rather took me aback to be addressed (especially by children) as "Miss Ro" (well, "Miss [my first name]", but that reads awkward). But I grew to like it, and thought it was a nice touch of respect for young people to show their elders, which young people in the rest of the US often lack (in my experience, at least!).
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Eowyn of Penns Woods
Valinor
Nov 18 2013, 12:14am
Post #47 of 99
(411 views)
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"full-up", which could still get one in trouble with a very 'proper' adult. The worst offense here, though, is "It's all." My mom still gets in a snit with Dad over that one on occasion, and he'll keep repeating it just to annoy her: "The milk's all." "It's all what?" "All!" "All WHAT?!" "It's all ALL!" =)
**********************************
NABOUF
Not a TORns*b!
Certified Curmudgeon
Knitting Knerd
NARF: NWtS Chapter Member since June 17,2011
(This post was edited by Eowyn of Penns Woods on Nov 18 2013, 12:15am)
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Eruvandi
Tol Eressea
Nov 18 2013, 12:19am
Post #48 of 99
(401 views)
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I'm from the southern US too and it feels like the further north east you get the more cynical/snarky people get. I guess it's just a cultural thing.
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Roheryn
Tol Eressea
Nov 18 2013, 12:20am
Post #49 of 99
(405 views)
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I've lived all over the US, and figure I don't have much of a regional accent. When I moved to Louisiana about 15 years ago, I quickly discovered that as soon as I opened my mouth in front of the natives (most of whom were Cajun), I stuck out like a sore thumb. I briefly held an emergency, starving-graduate-student-needs-money job of delivering phone books. I'll never forget walking up some man's driveway, handing him his new phone book and saying something to the effect of, "Here's your new phone book." He took one look at me, scowled, and said [I'm now typing in a thick Cajun drawl], "You're not from around here, are ya. You're a Yank!" I felt like a spy being detected on hostile territory!
When I moved to New Zealand about 8 years ago, I took the "opening-my-mouth-makes-me-stick-out-like-a-sore-thumb" feeling to a whole new level. The second I speak, I'm immediately identifiable as one o' them Americans. And everyone here as their own idea of what Americans are like -- and not all of it's pleasant. Many people are charitable and ask if I'm from Canada (an American being asked if they're Canadian won't be offended, whereas a Canadian being asked if they're American might be, so the locals err on the side of being less potentially offensive), and I've had a few ask if I'm British or oddly, a couple of times, Irish. I'm a lot less self-conscious about my accent now, and I've gotten my ear pretty well around the Kiwi accent so I don't have problems understanding people here like I used to!
Early on, once or twice I had significant problems understanding what a native Kiwi friend had said to me. He very charitably (and with an eye roll) switched to an American accent so I could understand him!
And my favourite misunderstanding happened shortly after I moved here, when I was expecting the arrival of my dear horse, who had taken ill in quarantine and was being held at a farm up north to recuperate before the final leg of his journey to be with me. I'd been a bit nervous about the whole process of shipping him internationally, mostly because the entire process meant he was out of my hands and being handled by multiple people across many many miles of journeying, over about a six-week period. So, with my horse due to arrive very soon, I received a phone call that went something like this:
Me: "Hello?"
Lady's voice on other end: "Hi, this is mumblemumble from mumblemumble. We have your bull here...where would you like it sent?"
Me: "Ummm...I don't have a bull, I have a horse, and you're already supposed to have the address where he's going."
Lady: "Yes, but I need to know where to send your bull."
Me: "I don't have a bull. You're supposed to have my horse."
Lady: "No, we have your bull right here...I need to send it to you."
Me: "I DON'T HAVE, NOR HAVE I EVER HAD, A BULL! YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SENDING ME MY HORSE!"
Lady, exasperated: "Yes, I have your bull right here, and I need to send it to you. Can you give me an address?"
I wondered in desperation if "bull" was some sort of Kiwi-ism for a gelded geriatric horse. I was completely baffled, and rather upset! Turned out (after several more rounds of this) that she had a bill for me, and that she was with the vet who had most recently treated my horse. That was the day I learned about the Kiwi i-to-u vowel shift!
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Ataahua
Forum Admin
/ Moderator
Nov 18 2013, 12:31am
Post #50 of 99
(400 views)
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I shouldn't laugh, but I am. :D
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Me: "I DON'T HAVE, NOR HAVE I EVER HAD, A BULL! YOU ARE SUPPOSED TO BE SENDING ME MY HORSE!"
ROFL! It must have been really frustrating for you but that is hilarious!
She should have twigged to what you were misunderstanding. I wonder how else she could have said it? "I want to send you that bit of paper that tells you how much money you owe us"? It takes about 10 seconds to say but it would have been a damn site clearer for you!
Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."
"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.
Ataahua's stories
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* snert! * //
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