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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Bowman of the Caribbean: Bard Look Rant

Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 10:09pm

Post #1 of 94 (2285 views)
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Bowman of the Caribbean: Bard Look Rant Can't Post

I'm so miffed that they made Bard look like Will Turner (Pirates of the Caribbean) replica that I had to start a tread dedicated to this screw up. This is not aimed at the casting choice but at make-up and costume department going with the look that's unmistakably borrowed from another character from another franchise.

Bard in the book is an iconic character described simply as "grim". That should have given them a lot of freedom to play around his look in the movies. Moreover, when Luke Evans was cast, many pointed out his striking physical resemblance to Orlando Bloom, another cast member. However, this seems to be exactly what they wanted - to have Legolas AND Will Turner in one movie. There is absolutely no way that they didn't think Evans in Bard's costume wasn't a dead ringer to Turner. There is also no way that couldn't give Evans a look that makes resemblance less obvious, and still keep him dashing.

My question here is why they didn't give Bard a distinguished look that would make the character easily recognizable, instead of being mistaken for another. He isn't the first character in the movies where blatant borrowing from other sources is obvious (Bombur is Obelix Lite, Tauriel owns a lot to video games where red-haired warrior Elf women are a norm, etc) but is, IMO, most jarring because there was no reason for it. Bard is iconic. He doesn't have to borrow his look. Hobbit doesn't have to think in "grass is greener" terms. Yet they do. Someone thought that it would be more commercially viable to have Legolas and Will in the Hobbit than Legolas and Bard.

Moreover, Will Turner look is in direct contradiction with "grim". I get it that they wanted Thorin to be the grim heartthrob and Bard more to teen girls taste but that doesn't mean you have to create an exact replica of another teen girl favorite, and the one that doesn't even fit the "grim" bill. Seriously, what's next? Silmarillion starring Edward Cullen replica Beren? Crazy

Scenes and characters lifted from other movies take me out of the movie because I keep thinking "this is from...he/she looks like...". Hobbit really shouldn't be doing that. The book was a trailblazer so I understand that it's hard for movies coming decades after that to look fresh and unique when everyone was aping the source in the meantime. But that doesn't mean that they should ape other movies. What happened to creativity? They went into great lengths to give 13 dwarves 13 very different looks. OK, make it 12 because Kili's flowing hair doesn't count as an effort. So why didn't Bard, by far more important player than dwarves who aren't Thorin, get his recognizable Bardness? Such a waste, seriously.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Aug 31 2013, 10:13pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 31 2013, 10:12pm

Post #2 of 94 (1198 views)
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LOL yep... [In reply to] Can't Post

I keep thinking Bill Nigh is gonna show up as Davy Jones every time I see Bard Angelic


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 10:21pm

Post #3 of 94 (1131 views)
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Lol, same here [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm also worried about inclusion of his family because family has become a cheap device to somewhat humanize heavily underdeveloped characters. So writers think if they throw in few cornflakes moments, that's going to be enough for us to care for the daddy of the family. No sir, we won't. Last movie I saw that used this device was World War Z. Brad Pitt's character was a globe-trotting cypher and his useless family was only thrown in to, I dunno, make him likable because family men are likable by default? or something.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



QuackingTroll
Valinor


Aug 31 2013, 10:41pm

Post #4 of 94 (1104 views)
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Daniel Craig would've made a nice Bard // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Legomir
Rivendell

Aug 31 2013, 10:43pm

Post #5 of 94 (1088 views)
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Personally, [In reply to] Can't Post

I think the idea that those involved in the series thought, "Hey, let's steal Will Turner's look and put in on Bard!" is an extreme stretch. Frankly, I think he does look "grim" and "black haired" which are his only two descriptions from the book. He looks exactly like how I pictured him. Sure, Luke Evans looks like the lovechild of Orlando Bloom and James McAvoy, but his Bard looks nothing like Orland's Legolas, so really I don't think there's any problem at all.


Shagrat
Gondor

Aug 31 2013, 10:45pm

Post #6 of 94 (1111 views)
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I have NEVER once seen Will Turner when I look at Bard [In reply to] Can't Post

I also fail to see the resemblance between Luke Evans and Orlando Bloom. I can easily tell the two apart.


(This post was edited by Shagrat on Aug 31 2013, 10:45pm)


Elessar
Valinor


Aug 31 2013, 10:45pm

Post #7 of 94 (1085 views)
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I don't see the issue. [In reply to] Can't Post

I suppose he a tiny bit does but it's a none issue for me personally.



Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 31 2013, 10:45pm

Post #8 of 94 (1096 views)
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I agree kind of [In reply to] Can't Post

Grim and weathered more middle aged a more sullen tone . Yeah D Craig would have made a good Bard


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 10:51pm

Post #9 of 94 (1078 views)
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Ironically, I thought Norrington looked spot on Bard in POTC:DMC [In reply to] Can't Post

and was really mad that Hobbit couldn't use that look if it was ever made. Turns out, they had no problem with using POTC character look but they went with Will's. LOL.


"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Aug 31 2013, 10:52pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 31 2013, 10:52pm

Post #10 of 94 (1074 views)
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His run down look? [In reply to] Can't Post

actually that would have probably worked Wink


Legomir
Rivendell

Aug 31 2013, 10:56pm

Post #11 of 94 (1059 views)
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Speaking as a Jack Davenport fan... [In reply to] Can't Post

That would have been awesome! Just maybe a bit cleaner...


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 10:56pm

Post #12 of 94 (1044 views)
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when he cleaned up a bit and fought with Will and Jack on the beach and wheel,etc [In reply to] Can't Post

C'mon, that was Bard...because they obviously wanted a rugged manly man a la Aragorn/Boromir in the movie. But he didn't come off as a knock-off because costume and make-up department did a bang on job and made him unique. However, there's no denying where inspiration came from.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 10:59pm

Post #13 of 94 (1061 views)
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Speaking of clean, my beef is with too clean characters in the Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

LOTR didn't forget to throw some dirt on non-Elves but the Hobbit is sparkling clean all the way to the Orcs.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 11:01pm

Post #14 of 94 (1054 views)
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That was a fantastic performance [In reply to] Can't Post

Seriously underrated but he was really one of top 3-4 in POTC. They cheated the character of a decent conclusion in the third.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 31 2013, 11:08pm

Post #15 of 94 (1130 views)
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Bard is different: Counter rant.... [In reply to] Can't Post

They are both men, I give you that. Approximately the same age and dark haired. Hairstyle's similar, though Bard's is much curlier and rougher and I don't think he has a beard - not sure about that.

But think about it. Can you honestly see any professional design team, with a one-and-only chance to design a big film like this, putting their heads together and saying - "What look shall we give Bard? Ooo - I know. Will Turner - perfect!" If you've seen the LotR extended editions you'll remember their horror when they found that their carefully designed unique Army of the Dead was coming dangerously close to the zombie pirates of Pirates of the Caribbean, which they weren't even aware of until then? It just isn't the kind of thing they do deliberately. When the relevant 'Weta Chronicles' book comes out I bet you what you like they will have tried various looks for Bard and just chosen this one..

As for the costume, I've just been comparing pictures and it's nothing like. Will Turner comes in various frocks but they're all generic early eighteenth century western European. What little we've seen of Bard so far seems to be inspired - as many of the other Laketown/Dale costumes are inspired - by something much more east European and folk tale. Much looser and longer, more use of fur - a totally different style and shape.

For the rest? Well, he looks and sounds grim enough to me so far and not even remotely dashing. Bit of a scruff, actually. You feel as you feel - fair game, that's up to you, but I think you might be being a bit - hasty - on this one.


Legomir
Rivendell

Aug 31 2013, 11:14pm

Post #16 of 94 (1030 views)
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Well as he's my favorite character... [In reply to] Can't Post

and has been since the first film, the perfect world would have had him join Jones's crew after getting stabbed, become fishy, betray him the battle, and become the new Davy Jones by stabbing the heart. But that's probably the most off-topic post I've ever made on these boards.

And I haven't given much thought to the amount of dirt on the characters, so I don't really have anything to say there. At the very least, they will have cobwebs on them by the end of the Mirkwood section.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 11:14pm

Post #17 of 94 (1049 views)
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Good post [In reply to] Can't Post

However, I just don't think that anything is up to snuff this time around. Costumes and make-up are tired and borrowed, with one OTT dwarf design exception (the one with an axe stuck in his Motley Cru hair) and Thranduil's fabulous crown. I don't know. It's so cosplayish this time around.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 11:17pm

Post #18 of 94 (1022 views)
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That's exactly how the third should have ended [In reply to] Can't Post

so if you don't mind, I'll PM you about that so we don't stray off topic. Laugh

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



QuackingTroll
Valinor


Aug 31 2013, 11:17pm

Post #19 of 94 (1047 views)
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Which designs, costumes or make-up were tired and borrowed in AUJ? [In reply to] Can't Post

Considering we haven't seen DoS yet, you can't really make judgement. The costumes could be completely transformed when observed in context.


Elessar
Valinor


Aug 31 2013, 11:29pm

Post #20 of 94 (1025 views)
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Every bit as [In reply to] Can't Post

Good this time around IMO. The designs and looks are fantastic and a great look at other things in Middle-earth. I love how all the Dwarves look with the exception of Ori who looks alright. From what we've seen in DOS I love how the elves look and what changes we've seen in the Dwarves. IMO it's anything but cosplayish.



dormouse
Half-elven


Aug 31 2013, 11:34pm

Post #21 of 94 (1016 views)
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Troll snot? Bird poo? [In reply to] Can't Post

And the dwarves could use some good washing powder on those undies!!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 11:37pm

Post #22 of 94 (1010 views)
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I don't know [In reply to] Can't Post

I just think that Medieval fantasy costuming is exhausted at this point. Last one that really blew me away was Charlize Theron's garb in SWATH, even thought the movie blew chunks. And I guess thst after the glimpse of Mockingjay dress nothing looks mind-blowing anymore. That's just...words cannot describe the sheet shock and awe(someness).

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Aug 31 2013, 11:38pm

Post #23 of 94 (1005 views)
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I'm blocking bird poo from my mind [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Elessar
Valinor


Sep 1 2013, 12:01am

Post #24 of 94 (1011 views)
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Old and tired [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't disagree some shows/movies have used the same look. However, I think this is what sets The Lord of the Rings and The Hobbit apart is they don't for me at least feel that way.



morro91
Bree

Sep 1 2013, 2:19am

Post #25 of 94 (947 views)
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Don't see it [In reply to] Can't Post

It amazes me how some people can't distinguish different characters when watching films. Some in other threads a while back complained that Stephen Fry, Billy Connolly were too recognisable, and that other actors are similar, depending on the type of shows you've watched.

I've watched many things, and I never see Gandalf when I watch X-Men, I don't see Watson when I watch Bilbo etc. I don't see Will Turner when I see Bard.

So how Bard could be mistaken for Will Turner when watching the film, when Will Turner isn't in the film (yes the actor is, but Legolas isn't Will Turner), you'd have to be an ...

Yes the design is similar, but I'm sure you could end up going, Oh' Dumbledore looks like Gandalf, or Saruman looks like Gandalf the White, its just a fact of movies, that there are only so many ways you can do costumes and makeup/hair, of course you are going to get some similarities.

Then people complain when Beorn is radically different to the book (a fair complaint in this case), but perhaps the filmmakers were trying to avoid a 'Hagrid'/Wild-man look.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 2:52am

Post #26 of 94 (496 views)
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I don't mix them up [In reply to] Can't Post

I just hate getting pulled out of the movie because something is so obviously a callback to another movie. It isn't like movies don't do it all the time, but some make those callbacks their own, others don't.

I'm sorry I made this thread. I was just agitated and had to let it out. I'm sure it's going to be fine. Evans is a decent actor in everything I've seen him so far. Very nice to look at too.

Besides, my undying wraith of the fire of thousands suns is and always will be saved for Radaghast. Laugh

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Intergalactic Lawman
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 2:58am

Post #27 of 94 (490 views)
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Hmmm.. [In reply to] Can't Post

No-one in these films has looked remotely like I imagined...


(This post was edited by Avnar on Sep 1 2013, 3:00am)


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 3:12am

Post #28 of 94 (493 views)
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Same here but I can't begrudge the eye candy that's movie Thorin [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh
My biggest problem is the look of rollovers Elrond and Galadriel. I never fully embraced those casting choices to be honest. Hugo Weaving just isn't someone I'd ever pick for Fair Folk. He isn't unsexy but Fair Folk were classically beautiful, not interesting attractive, unconventional attractive, etc. Classically. Undisputed. Timeless. Cate I think mostly suffered from unflattering ears and hair and because I saw Gladiator when I was reading LOTR so Connie Nielsen was my vision of Galadriel (including that insanely beautiful Roman fashion) that never let go. Radaghast...sigh. Never imagined him one way or the other but what we got I'm trying to block from my mind.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Yngwulff
Gondor


Sep 1 2013, 3:32am

Post #29 of 94 (471 views)
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I sort of agree just couldn't put my finger on it [In reply to] Can't Post

I have not watched many POC films, but yeah it is close.

I also thought Bard looked like a dark haired Legolas ... switch wigs and costumes and you'd almost have to do a double take.

Daniel Craig would have been an awesome choice for Bard, I concur.

Josh Brolin or Michael Fassbender would have been good choices as well.

“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”



Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 4:53am

Post #30 of 94 (462 views)
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Wasn't Fassbender hottly rumored to be up for a major part? [In reply to] Can't Post

That was when Thranduil and Bard were still uncast. He was basically Bard in 300 and although he'd be terrific I'm glad he took several really interesting and daring roles in other movies instead. In all due respect but Bard&co don't fit the interesting role bill. They are stock blockbuster characters which is not a bad thing but they don't require Fassbender caliber. He would have been wasted, and, besides, he's already done such stereotype in 300.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 1 2013, 8:38am

Post #31 of 94 (441 views)
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Well, I haven't seen a single tired or borrowed costume... [In reply to] Can't Post

... only a lot of hard work, and thought, and care brought to bear on creating distinctive looks for a whole new list of characters - distinctive, yet recognisably part of the same world. All that dismissed in a few careless words with a side serving of sarcasm.

So, let's go for the positive. What did you want to see? What does your ideal Bard look like? Hairstyle? Beard, clean shaven? What does he wear? If this one is such a disappointment there must have been something you really wanted to see, mustn't there?


Yngwulff
Gondor


Sep 1 2013, 8:43am

Post #32 of 94 (440 views)
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Bard [In reply to] Can't Post

Less dashing yet slightly haggard and weathered, but with an intensity of hidden strength. Luke Evans is OK, but he is not what I pictured and an slightly older actor would seem more appropriate. Hairstyle and color would be of little import.

“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”



Anubis
Rivendell


Sep 1 2013, 9:13am

Post #33 of 94 (426 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

I pictured him older, but I am sure that when we see him on-screen he will have his own "flavour".


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 1 2013, 9:27am

Post #34 of 94 (430 views)
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I still query this idea of 'dashing' [In reply to] Can't Post

What does it mean to you?

The dictionary definition is 'Spirited, lively, impetuous' or 'Given to cutting a dash, stylish'. To me it implies a glamorous, idealised heroism - Errol Flynn, maybe - all flashing swords and teeth. You could call Legolas in the previous films a bit dashing, or Will Turner. Or, in his own way, Jack Sparrow.

We haven't seen much of Bard yet but so far he he doesn't seem to me to have those qualities - and he does look pretty weathered and scruffy to me - certainly not one who'd bother overmuch about what he looks like, and the little we've seen him say sounded dour and grim. As to age it's a fair point. I suppose I'd pictured Bard as 40s, perhaps. Luke Evans is 34 which may be on the young side - though I suppose they could equally fairly point out that Tolkien doesn't specify his age.

I don't know. On the haggard and weathered aspect I think you might find this Bard fits the bill, but we won't really know until we've seen a lot more of him.


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Sep 1 2013, 9:38am

Post #35 of 94 (419 views)
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From what we know so far, [In reply to] Can't Post

i think Bard is just fine. I think he looks cool shooting his giant bow, and Luke Evans seemed like a fine, likeable chap in the video blogs. But Bard does bear a striking resemblance to Will Turner. But since i don't really like the PotC films (the first one, the only one i've seen all the way through, was ok i guess, mainly because of Johnny Depp), the simalrity isn't really a problem for me.


(This post was edited by sauget.diblosio on Sep 1 2013, 9:39am)


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Sep 1 2013, 10:05am

Post #36 of 94 (493 views)
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And Benedict Cumberbatch [In reply to] Can't Post

will play The Necromancer as Captain JackAngelicAngelic

KS

Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
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Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Sep 1 2013, 11:54am

Post #37 of 94 (404 views)
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While we're at it... [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm surprised no one's commented lately on how much Thranduil's design is reminiscent of Prince Nuada in Hellboy II (minus the white make-up, naturally!) ...I was particularly struck by the resemblance in the clips we've seen of Thranduil with just the silver circlet, and in that gorgeous Japanese-style "dressing gown" overcoat...


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


(This post was edited by Eleniel on Sep 1 2013, 12:01pm)


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 12:26pm

Post #38 of 94 (381 views)
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Prince Nuada who? [In reply to] Can't Post

OK I googled the guy and you are right. That could be leftover from GdT's designs.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 12:29pm

Post #39 of 94 (380 views)
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Dashing means handsome and winsome rolled in one [In reply to] Can't Post

His looks and his manner sweep you off your feet.

Although not described as a hunk in the book, I always imagined he'd be and it was a no brainer that they cast one. No beef with that. Just with making his head look like cut and pasted Turner head. Laugh

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Noria
Gondor

Sep 1 2013, 12:37pm

Post #40 of 94 (388 views)
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I really doubt that DOS's makeup artists deliberately copied Will Turner's look. [In reply to] Can't Post

In fact I think it almost outside the bounds of possibility.

Nor do I see anything more than a general resemblance between the two characters.

It's not the fault of PJ and his people if we've seen other movies and can't get past associating his actors with other characters. Nor is he to blame if his conception of the characters and other aspects of the movie don't match what we have in our heads.

None of the star actors mentioned in this thread would ever have been cast in these movies. For one thing they're probably too expensive and for another, PJ seems to prefer less well known but very capable actors. I love that about these movies.

And I loved Radagast, aside from the poo and the stick insect.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 12:53pm

Post #41 of 94 (381 views)
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Eh, I find his casting a mixed bag [In reply to] Can't Post

Serviceable to capable actors for sure, but no exciting discoveries. He just doesn't seem to have a knack to pick actors who would go on to have prosperous careers after Middle Earth exposure (that excludes already established careers such as Cate's who came aboard as acclaimed and already known actress, for example). There's really nobody to follow.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



sycorax82
Rohan

Sep 1 2013, 1:59pm

Post #42 of 94 (398 views)
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The whole of Laketown just screams POTC! [In reply to] Can't Post

This is why Bard's look is like it is. Any shots of Laketown we've seen resemble a few POTC sets, like Tortuga and the Singapore opening to the third film. Peter obviously got jealous watching those films so decided to make his own!! :D


glor
Rohan

Sep 1 2013, 3:52pm

Post #43 of 94 (349 views)
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That may be the iconic film curse. [In reply to] Can't Post

Unless you were huge star or, highly respected thesbian before gettin cast as a major character in a classic mega-film and most of the time, you will struggle as an actor to remove yourself from that role and further your career. Mark hamill, Carrie Fisher, Christopher Reeve, Anyone who has played James Bond, with the exception of Sean Connery, Robert Englund, etc etc, in fact it easier to name actors that managed to break free of this curse than it is to name the ones who are still under it's spell. Even Depp has been stuck as Jack Sparrow alike, in most of his post-POTC work, the Mad Hatter, Sweeney Todd etc.

Also, not all actors are interested in a full on movie career, like Viggo, Astin, and Boyd, although Karl Urban and David Wenham have done quite well but they weren't major leading characters but supporting ones.


(This post was edited by glor on Sep 1 2013, 3:53pm)


DanielLB
Immortal


Sep 1 2013, 3:53pm

Post #44 of 94 (339 views)
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I don't see Will Turner in Bard. [In reply to] Can't Post

But I do see Will Turner in Legolas. Not sure why. Wink

Forgive me, I haven't read the entire thread yet, so you may have already answered this question. How would you have presented Bard, have you got anything specific in your head? Any actors that stick out, or a particular costume?

I'd say film Bard matches by book Bard fairly well. Though it has been slightly influenced by mustache Bard. I don't think film Bard has enough facial hair.

Smile



dernwyn
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 1 2013, 6:28pm

Post #45 of 94 (339 views)
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Bard speculation: a bit of a blast from the past [In reply to] Can't Post

I found some of the old casting speculation threads from 4 or 5 years ago:

May 23, 2008

April 13, 2009

and even a Bard poll: http://newboards.theonering.net/...rum.cgi?post=100769;

(I had fun reading back through some of these suggestions. Can you imagine Simon Pegg as Kili? What's interesting is that Richard Armitage seems to be one of those favored for Bard.)

Just some fun speculation, as to how any of these other Bard might-be's would have looked with the shoulder-length hair and 'stache. They might have been not very far off from Luke Evan's look.

(Personally, I don't see Will Turner in Bard, my first impression of him was "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya...", but I've gotten over that...I hope...Tongue)


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"I desired dragons with a profound desire"






marillaraina
Rohan


Sep 1 2013, 7:45pm

Post #46 of 94 (314 views)
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Bard [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I found some of the old casting speculation threads from 4 or 5 years ago:

May 23, 2008

April 13, 2009

and even a Bard poll: http://newboards.theonering.net/...rum.cgi?post=100769;

(I had fun reading back through some of these suggestions. Can you imagine Simon Pegg as Kili? What's interesting is that Richard Armitage seems to be one of those favored for Bard.)

Just some fun speculation, as to how any of these other Bard might-be's would have looked with the shoulder-length hair and 'stache. They might have been not very far off from Luke Evan's look.

(Personally, I don't see Will Turner in Bard, my first impression of him was "Hello, my name is Inigo Montoya...", but I've gotten over that...I hope...Tongue)


Well I guess all three of them, Orlando Bloom, Luke Evans and Mandy Patinkin, while very good looking, do have that sort of hit in the face with a pan kind of thing going on(kind of smooshed looking noses) so with shoulder dark hair, a tan and a mustache I guess they do have a similar look.

I do kind of wish they'd gone with another look for Bard, not much different, just tweaked a bit to be a little bit less derivative.

IMO, and I love him and think he looks fantastic in shoulder length hair(see Guy of Gisborne Season 3, once he'd had a wash:) but Richard would have looked a bit skeevy adding in a mustache. I've never found 'tache's to work well for him. Hopefully if he'd have gotten the part they'd have left the mustache off. :D


kbdiggity
Rivendell

Sep 1 2013, 11:54pm

Post #47 of 94 (268 views)
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... [In reply to] Can't Post

I have never once thought any of the pictures of Bard reminded me of a character from the Pirates of the Caribbean movies.

Then again, I stopped watching those movies after the awful second one. So I suppose they aren't really even on my radar.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 12:37am

Post #48 of 94 (266 views)
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There are more actors who aren't offered big roles [In reply to] Can't Post

than those who aren't interested. Viggo was interested. It's just that expensive Hidalgo flopped and he was already too old to be given another shot. I don't think that anyone ever considered Astin and Boyd for big career.

Some actors just don't have it and ensemble movies populated with stock characters aren't star vehicles in general.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 12:39am

Post #49 of 94 (260 views)
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Great observations [In reply to] Can't Post

Spot on.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Sep 2 2013, 12:56am

Post #50 of 94 (266 views)
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Don't See It [In reply to] Can't Post

I love Luke Evans. Have seen him in a number of things and have enjoyed every performance. He brings his own twist to every performance. So, no, I didn't see any resemblance to Will Turner in Bard's look.

What we may be seeing is that Hollywood has gotten very narrow in what it thinks is a good look for actors and actress and they have a tendency to all look alike these days. Looking back on the big stars of the 30's, 40's and 50's you can see vast differences in how they look. Each was distinct and had his/her own personalities. That is not so true today.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 1:37am

Post #51 of 94 (436 views)
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This. Generic sterotyped vanilla good looks [In reply to] Can't Post

Will Turner, John Carter, Bard...just a few that sport very similar vanilla good looks that Hollywood favors for some reason, even though edgier proved more profitable and popular and certainly acclaimed (Depp's Sparrow experiment, Downey as Tony Stark).

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Yngwulff
Gondor


Sep 2 2013, 3:13am

Post #52 of 94 (428 views)
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Yes ... less vanilla less dashing more grim [In reply to] Can't Post

Less Errol Flynn and more William Holden or Gary Cooper.

Tolkien describes him as grim and Luke Evans does not look grim enough to suit me.

I have no problem with Evans and I'm sure he'll do fine, but he's just missing something ... like soup you forgot to put celery or onion in.

“I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve.”



Noria
Gondor

Sep 2 2013, 12:45pm

Post #53 of 94 (407 views)
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Viggo Mortensen etc. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
than those who aren't interested. Viggo was interested. It's just that expensive Hidalgo flopped and he was already too old to be given another shot. I don't think that anyone ever considered Astin and Boyd for big career.

Some actors just don't have it and ensemble movies populated with stock characters aren't star vehicles in general.


It seems to me that you equate success as an actor to appearing only in starring roles in big budget, high grossing Hollywood movies.

Viggo Mortensen had a thriving career before LotR and has certainly been successful since, including a best actor Oscar nominated role in Eastern Promises. He is an actor, musician, poet and artist, so films are only one part of his life.

Thee are many excellent actors who never become huge movie stars but choose to work in films that are well received critically and by a certain audience, but are not mega hits. Others, just as skilled, have thriving careers in supporting roles in Hollywood and other movies, and also work in theatre or music and, in some parts of the world, television. They don't draw people into a big movie like a huge star does, but they add to it's quality, and they aren't damaged when the movie fails, like the star might be.

Peter Jackson seems to prefer to find his cast in that pool of actors rather than among the Daniel Craigs and other big stars. Ian McKellen and Cate Blanchett were certainly well known and greatly respected before LotR but neither was a huge movie star. I doubt that the careers of either was affected one way or the other by LotR.

As for Evans, I'll wait and see his performance before I decide how I feel about him.


dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 2 2013, 1:06pm

Post #54 of 94 (397 views)
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Peter Jackson has drawn on a much wider pool of actors [In reply to] Can't Post

... I think, than many films. Ian McKellen and Ian Holm are both extremely successful and respected in British theatre - and as far as I remember, John Noble and Hugo Weaving are also stage actors. And of course, Richard Armitage has been with Royal Shakespeare Company. Other cast members are most successful in British TV drama, or have come from New Zealand, Australia or Europe. So their names may be unfamiliar in other countries, and people may look and say that their careers haven't been advanced by appearing in one of Jackson's films, whereas in fact they may have very successful careers somewhere else.

I'd say that being outside Hollywood gives Peter Jackson a very different approach to casting. He seems to value the individual rather than the name for each part and also to consider how his actors will work together. So far I think it has paid off well, even when the actor was someone I'd never heard of before, or wouldn't have connected with the role myself.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Sep 2 2013, 1:43pm

Post #55 of 94 (375 views)
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Agreed... [In reply to] Can't Post

And a major factor in choosing an actor would have been not wanting a recognizable face that would take the audience out of the story...an unknown is far better in that respect. Who could imagine Uma Thurman as Eowyn without thinking "oh, it's that actress from 'Pulp Fiction/Batman & Robin'...


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


glor
Rohan

Sep 2 2013, 2:29pm

Post #56 of 94 (369 views)
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Long shoots. [In reply to] Can't Post

may also be a factor. TV actors and those with RSC type theatre experience are used to working for 6 or 7 days a week for months, if not years on end. Big budget Hollywood movies take on average 3 to 4 months of an actors time to shoot, PJ's Tolkien epics take 3 years plus call backs.

Commiting to playing the same character for years on end is a feature of TV acting and PJ's M-E films. PJ needs actors with stamina, the kind of stamina that means working for 9 to 12 times longer on the same project than a big movie star is used to. TV and theatre actors have proven that they can do this, they have experience of long term commitment to a project/part, to working with the same team, such experience is rare in movie actors and when it does exist it tends to be because they have already played a highly iconic role, e.g. Bale's Batman, Radcliff's Harry Potter, that would, in all likelihood rule them out of a major part in PJ's Tolkien adaptations.

I agree PJ isn't looking outside the box, so much as outside Hollywood, I like many I know found the North American, unknown cast chosen for Hobbit comments that abounded when the film was cast funny, in fact the general consensus over here in Blightly was that this was a far more familar and well known cast than the one chosen for LOTR, suprisingly more well known that was expected hence, some British critics, looks like an expensive BBC special comments on AUJ.


(This post was edited by glor on Sep 2 2013, 2:30pm)


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 4:17pm

Post #57 of 94 (355 views)
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Love love celery and onion comment! [In reply to] Can't Post

Perfectly said! HeartHeartHeartHeartHeart

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



TFP
Rivendell


Sep 2 2013, 4:30pm

Post #58 of 94 (347 views)
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Grim [In reply to] Can't Post

yup.

it's not just 'grim', Tolkien actually uses 'grim-faced'.

the chap they picked is far too handsome, clearly.

oh well.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 4:38pm

Post #59 of 94 (357 views)
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No, I'm talking about relevant roles in relevant movies [In reply to] Can't Post

Those that make a mark. Includes both starring and supporting roles. Huge majority of LOTR actors hasn't been in anything relevant since LOTR. Someone mentioned Karl Urban and David Wenham doing OK. They haven't been in anything relevant. 300, Van Helsing, Star Trek, Riddick, Red are nor relevant movies. Those roles are not interesting. In short, PJ hasn't picked actors who sparked industry interest in grooming them for long careers. Bloom faded quickly because he didn't try to get interesting roles that may not be commercial but stand the test of time. He was driven by purely commercial, get-my-ass-in-as-many-franchises-as-possible instinct and when his solo flight crash landed he had nothing to fall back on.

I think those actors are decent but not more than that. They pull off those stock roles, have the right look but don't bring anything new to the table that inspires the industry to give them real opportunities. Mortensen became Cronenberg's muse because he had pre-LOTR resume, which is something that many supposed discoveries simply didn't have (or industry didn't care for work in Oz, Britain,etc) and they didn't stand out in a cast of 50.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Symbelmine
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 5:15pm

Post #60 of 94 (344 views)
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That´s true Luke and Orlando look a bit alike [In reply to] Can't Post

but Bard doesn´t remind me of Will Turner at all.
The two actors also played together in The Three Musketeers.


tolktolk
Lorien

Sep 2 2013, 5:51pm

Post #61 of 94 (339 views)
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Familiar faces [In reply to] Can't Post

I was just thinking that is so true Glor, it's part of the charm for me. Ken Stott was Rebus, Richard Armitage was wotsisname who married Dawn French - in fact there was a look back on the Vicar of Dibley on some channel like Gold last night which I ended up having on because I couldn't be bothered to hunt for the remote control and he was included saying he laughed every day for two weeks - Martin Freeman was dear Tim from The Office and to me Jimmy Nesbitt will always be the bloke on Cold Feet with the rose up his bum!


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Sep 2 2013, 6:56pm

Post #62 of 94 (319 views)
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Yes, outside Hollywood... [In reply to] Can't Post

and primarily for character actors, not leading men, in the majority of roles. Good looks are only essential for a handful of roles! Wink

But going back to LotR, apart from Elijah, Liv, Hugo, Cate, Sir Chris and the two Sir Ians, of the "lesser" names I only knew Bernard Hill (Boys from the Black Stuff) and Dom Monaghan (Hetty Wainthrop Investigates.) I think from the Northern Hemisphere POV it really helped that so many Australian and NZ actors were cast both then and now in TH.


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 7:46pm

Post #63 of 94 (308 views)
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Well, Aussies and Kiwis didn't go far after LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

Karl Urban is doing bit parts which is a shame because he's the most talented of the newcomers who got LOTR exposure. I hope his TV show's a success. Wenham thankfully faded after disasterous 300 speech and is back on Aussie screen only. I'm not from Oz so I don't have to put up with that torture. Miranda Otto got it the worst, I think. She and Billy Boyd. Just nothing of note. Maybe something in Oz and Britain from where they are from but nothing in US. Monaghan went from Lost to a reality show.

It's undeniable that Aussie talent that's getting real opportunities in Hollywood isn't from LOTR pool. In fact, I'd say that, outside of Cate who doesn't really count, and Hugo whose real break was Matrix, not LOTR, LOTR cast is doing the worst of Aussies with international recognition.

Same goes for Brits. Again, I don't count people who already established themselves prior to LOTR. Those who were supposed to beak out with it didn't go far (save Bloom's short-lived teen idol-dom and Andy cornering the mo'cap market).

My point is that it seems that PJ's cast in Middle Earth movies, as far as actors unknown to Hollywood go, aren't a caliber that stays on the radar after LOTR hype died down. I expect the same to be true for The Hobbit. The one from the cast that will have a long career is Cumberbatch who is already established, didn't break out with the Hobbit. He's in several movies that are hotly tipped for Academy Awards (12 Years a Slave is shoo-in, August Osage County is a huge possibility and 5th Estate is also in conversation) and hotly rumored to be cast in new Star Wars. he also has Oscar-friendly leading role next year. I don't see anyone else getting this level or half of this level of demand (not counting Cate).

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



dormouse
Half-elven


Sep 2 2013, 7:53pm

Post #64 of 94 (300 views)
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Maybe they don't want to be in Hollywood... [In reply to] Can't Post

And are happy living and working somewhere else. There are other radars worth being on, you know!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 7:55pm

Post #65 of 94 (300 views)
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Well, some moved to Hollywood [In reply to] Can't Post

so I'd say they want to work there.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



tolktolk
Lorien

Sep 2 2013, 8:31pm

Post #66 of 94 (294 views)
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Most of the British actors [In reply to] Can't Post

in The Hobbit have had long and very successful careers in film, TV, radio and theatre and I doubt it any of them are planning to drop out and become plumbers any time soon!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 9:18pm

Post #67 of 94 (287 views)
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Well, they can be plumbers for all I care cause they aren't visible [In reply to] Can't Post

in movies and US TV. Granted, US isn't the world but as David Frost said nothing compares to success in America. If you aren't on Holywood's radar you ain't on radar.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



tolktolk
Lorien

Sep 2 2013, 9:33pm

Post #68 of 94 (276 views)
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Have you ever travelled outside America? [In reply to] Can't Post

If not, you should try it, you might find it educational.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Sep 2 2013, 9:37pm

Post #69 of 94 (277 views)
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sorry [In reply to] Can't Post

but there are many radars.

Sorry to hear about his death, but i couldnt disagree more.

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Brethil
Half-elven


Sep 2 2013, 9:41pm

Post #70 of 94 (259 views)
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Even as an American I have to politely disagree. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!








Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 2 2013, 10:00pm

Post #71 of 94 (257 views)
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We get relevant program and movies from English speaking countries [In reply to] Can't Post

None of them has the likes of Wenham, Otto, Boyd just to name a few so I gather they aren't doing too hot in their respective countries either. There's constant influx of Aussies and Brits and those who are landing important roles range from character actress Jackie Weaver to hunks like Chris Hemsworth and Tom Hiddleston.

I don't understand hostility. I'm just pointing out that either PJ doesn't pick actors with potential for longevity or Middle Earth movies aren't career launchers because there are too many interchangeable characters. or maybe both. IMO, it's just more exciting to see someone break out and keep going than fizzle as soon as the movie hype dies. For me, it's very exciting to follow, lets say, Jennifer Lawrence career. From her indie breakout to superstar fame to Academy Awards to wacky, daring new role.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



tolktolk
Lorien

Sep 2 2013, 10:59pm

Post #72 of 94 (241 views)
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It's not hostility [In reply to] Can't Post

It's amusement. There is a big world out there beyond the US of A you know!


Starling
Half-elven


Sep 3 2013, 7:02am

Post #73 of 94 (229 views)
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Success can come in many forms, [In reply to] Can't Post

in many places, and in many different ways. And people have different definitions of what they consider to be successful. Not every person in the acting industry has mainstream Hollywood or American TV success and mega fame as their goal. Indeed, some people would prefer to be under the Hollywood radar. Some are very selective about the roles they accept. Some have plenty of other acting roles going on that are in theatre, or independent films, or TV, and they may do these things for the satisfaction of their work, not for glory, or fame, or a big pay cheque. Some people have many other strings to their bow, and acting is but one. Some people would rather stay in their home country and perhaps take 'lesser' roles, so that they can live where they are happiest, and be where they feel they belong. Some prefer to put their energy into their family.
And some people may enjoy fame, or mega-fame for a period of time, but will also be content to leave it behind for something else.

I for one am very thankful for the many people who are not necessarily on 'Hollywood's radar', because they are the people who often give me the most rich and satisfying move, TV, and theatre experiences.


Starling
Half-elven


Sep 3 2013, 7:10am

Post #74 of 94 (223 views)
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What you consider relevant [In reply to] Can't Post

and what I consider relevant are clearly different.
I have seen both Miranda Otto, and Karl Urban, not to mention Viggo Mortensen, in challenging, complex, and critically acclaimed film roles post LOTR. I would call that interesting, and relevant.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 11:18am

Post #75 of 94 (214 views)
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Went through their filmographies [In reply to] Can't Post

Karl's got acclaim for Judge Dredd and Star Trek. I knew about those. maybe some NZ work too.

Otto's got no acclaimed work in US by the look of it. Some cancelled show Cashmere Mafia was deemed "worst new show." Ouch. I see that Aussie movie Blessed was acclaimed but Frances O'Connor was singled out as a standout. That's about it.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Sep 3 2013, 2:09pm

Post #76 of 94 (256 views)
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Very well said.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 


sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Sep 3 2013, 2:15pm

Post #77 of 94 (266 views)
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Whenham's disasterous 300 speach? [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought he was great in 300, especially his narration, and thought he was just about the best thing (along with the visuals) in this fun and interesting, but far from perfect, film.


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 3:00pm

Post #78 of 94 (249 views)
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he was awful IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

In everything I saw him. Glad that I haven't sene him in anything since Australia.

The Crispian Day speech was brutal. His screechy voice was so unsuitable for it.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



glor
Rohan

Sep 3 2013, 3:13pm

Post #79 of 94 (243 views)
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relevant is relative and Hollywood... [In reply to] Can't Post

doesn't actually produce many interesting roles, that's why Indie films are so revered by actors and audiences alike.

I would also point out that whilst I am not a fan of 300, it was quite a significant film in Hollywood terms, the way it looked, they way it was made, and it's box office.

I think the problem with your argument isn't that it is entirely invalid or without merit, it's just that you seem to assume that Hollywood and the english speaking mainstream film industry is a creative endeavour in which talent trumps hype, that actors are chosen for roles based on talent and skill rather than box office draw, studio/agent politics, or old fashioned typecasting and nepotism.


Quote

Bloom faded quickly because he didn't try to get interesting roles


Perhaps he did try but didn't get them, for whatever reason, it may be he didn't have the chops, or perhaps he is considered too good looking by directors and casting bods to do an interesting part.
BTW, Bloom has only done one franchise POTC and that didn't start off as a franchise.


Quote

Huge majority of LOTR actors hasn't been in anything relevant since LOTR


If you are defining relevant relative to LOTR, the most highly acclaimed trilogy and major blockbusters in the history of cinema, then by definition almost anything these actors do, aside from gaining an Acting Oscar with a surprising, non-standard, no one would expected that role to win, has to be regarded as a failure.



sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Sep 3 2013, 3:25pm

Post #80 of 94 (241 views)
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Wow. [In reply to] Can't Post

Ok.


glor
Rohan

Sep 3 2013, 3:27pm

Post #81 of 94 (253 views)
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Wenham [In reply to] Can't Post

Wait until BBC's Top of the Lake hits awards season/ the international TV market then you might find a LOTR actor with something else significant on their resume Cool


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 4:21pm

Post #82 of 94 (240 views)
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No desire to watch him in anything [In reply to] Can't Post

shrug

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



tolktolk
Lorien

Sep 3 2013, 4:55pm

Post #83 of 94 (224 views)
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Hi Glor [In reply to] Can't Post

Here he is talking about the role:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/...ke/david-wenham.html

I agree, Top of the Lake was very good (if a bit grim) and it is bound to win a lot of awards, especially Elisabeth Moss and Peter Mullan who I thought were both brilliant.


Starling
Half-elven


Sep 3 2013, 6:23pm

Post #84 of 94 (213 views)
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Fair enough [In reply to] Can't Post

I would suggest, however, that this stance will leave you unable to make critical judgements about his abilities.


Starling
Half-elven


Sep 3 2013, 6:28pm

Post #85 of 94 (205 views)
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I know that we define success differently, [In reply to] Can't Post

and that's fine. Personally, I find being open to a wide range of viewing experiences is very rewarding. There are so many gems to be found out there.


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Sep 3 2013, 7:32pm

Post #86 of 94 (194 views)
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I suggest you hunt out In My Father's Den [In reply to] Can't Post

for another look at Miranda Otto.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 7:37pm

Post #87 of 94 (192 views)
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I've seen enough of him to deem him a subpar actor [In reply to] Can't Post

I really don't need to see more. Look, I'm not trying to annoy people around here but I really don't like this actor. I think he's bad and his voice is grating. It's nice that you are a fan and that he's in some good Aussie TV show so everyone's happy. You can watch the show and I won't get it here. Eveyrone wins.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Sep 3 2013, 7:38pm)


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 3 2013, 8:33pm

Post #88 of 94 (185 views)
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Failed Actors. [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you aware that Tom Cruise, Matt Damon, Al Pacino, Nick Cage, Christopher Walken, Robert De Niro have all failed to make much of an impact in the world's largest film industry? Possibly they are all sub par?

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 3 2013, 8:34pm

Post #89 of 94 (178 views)
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Duh, eveyrone's subpar to Bollywood [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 3 2013, 11:36pm

Post #90 of 94 (170 views)
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And the best film I've seen this year [In reply to] Can't Post

premiered in Norwich and won't make it to the US 'til 2014. As others have pointed out, there are multiple markets for actors. Making it in Hollywood films is about fitting a certain film-making culture, just as it does in Bollywood or any national film industry. It's as much about looks, and what happens to be fashionable at the time as it is about acting ability. The golden days of Hollywood are far behind now - Hollywood's modus operandi these days seems to be copying or remaking things that have been made elsewhere, but without the wit of a Billy Wilder or the directorial flair of a Hitchcock. Not to mention the current obsession with comic books. There are exceptions, of course, but to say that not making it in Hollywood these days is a sign of being a 'sub par' actor is not accurate.

I think it's great that PJ and co, instead of recruiting typical Hollywood types, decided to cast the best actors for the job.

"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


huzzlewhat
The Shire

Sep 3 2013, 11:38pm

Post #91 of 94 (167 views)
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purely commercial? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
In short, PJ hasn't picked actors who sparked industry interest in grooming them for long careers. Bloom faded quickly because he didn't try to get interesting roles that may not be commercial but stand the test of time. He was driven by purely commercial, get-my-ass-in-as-many-franchises-as-possible instinct and when his solo flight crash landed he had nothing to fall back on.


Gotta say, this is a bit inaccurate. Regardless of what you think of Bloom's chops, he charted a respectable course out of the LOTR gates, picking a stream of interesting films both small and large with people he wanted to work with. Calling Pirates an obvious franchise choice is 20/20 hindsight; the first movie was an out-of-left-field hit. When it was announced, it was generally considered to be a joke (a movie based on an amusement-park ride?). Bloom took the role to work with Johnny Depp. Far from being about the money, it more appears that he picked movies with people he wanted to work with. Ned Kelly with Heath Ledger, Black Hawk Down, with Ridley Scott (which led to Kingdom of Heaven); Elizabethtown, to work with Cameron Crowe... and he also started his own production company to make the independent Haven. All were self-contained stories without a franchise in sight. (Then there's Troy, which was a terrible movie and did none of its cast any favors, but what young actor would turn down the chance to do scenes with Peter O'Toole?) Bloom then intentionally backed off of blockbusters after getting burned out on Pirates -- reportedly turning down Prince of Persia (wise choice, in retrospect) in favor of stage work and independent films. The only movie that strikes me as a cash-grab potential franchise launch was the dismal Three Musketeers, and let's hope everyone involved in that movie learned their lesson!


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 12:35pm

Post #92 of 94 (145 views)
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I disagree about the best for the job [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that, with a one or two exceptions, my opinion of course, everyone did at least a decent job but the only actors that I deem irreplacable are Bean, Mckellen and Serkis. They embodied their characters to the point of total identification, IMO, of course. Eveyrone else I could see easily recast but these 3 were those characters. And this is my opinion not just for LOTR but Hobbit too. Good job but not irreplacable.

And I guess when production has a huge cast it helps that majority of actors don't command big salaries either.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.



Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Sep 4 2013, 2:48pm

Post #93 of 94 (131 views)
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Best actors [In reply to] Can't Post

The point I was making was the PJ picked the best actors for the job from his perspective - but he picked them for their acting ability - the ability to portray the role in the way he wanted it done, rather than because of their Hollywood status or star power. Nor does he seem to have looked for a 'hot' new actor that might be great in other films, and use LOTR as a vehicle for promoting them. To me, that shows that he had his priorities right.

Obviously we will all have our personal preferences for casting that may disagree with the ones the director chose - I thought Sean Astin's accent problems interfered with the naturalness of his performance, for example - especially having heard Bill Nighy's near perfect take on the role of Sam. So clearly I wouldn't have picked the same people. On the other hand, I wouldn't have picked Viggo Mortensen either - and he turned out to be a revelation in my opinion, so what do I know! Incidentally, I'm more critical of the Hobbit casting - Radaghastly mainly, but also James Nesbitt playing the same character he's played in everything he's ever been in. But I'm still eternally grateful to Jackson et al for avoiding Hollywood style casting.




In Reply To
I think that, with a one or two exceptions, my opinion of course, everyone did at least a decent job but the only actors that I deem irreplacable are Bean, Mckellen and Serkis. They embodied their characters to the point of total identification, IMO, of course. Eveyrone else I could see easily recast but these 3 were those characters. And this is my opinion not just for LOTR but Hobbit too. Good job but not irreplacable.

And I guess when production has a huge cast it helps that majority of actors don't command big salaries either.


"Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear."


Semper Fi
Rohan


Sep 4 2013, 5:24pm

Post #94 of 94 (139 views)
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I actually prefer when they pick a hot thing with potential [In reply to] Can't Post

It's always exciting when a big or at least important movie discovers someone who goes places after his/her break. I do, however, agree that many hot things are not worth the hype. Orlando Bloom was one of them and then came a slew of other pretty face/no range/no charisma actors all the way to Taylor Lautner whose trajectory is very similar. Both were given 7.5 million salary before they opened a movie and both bombed that solo movie that was supposed to prove they had star power.

"RadagaStoner deserves no mercy!" Tauriel the Radagast Slayer, the Chief of Inglorious Elfguards

Tauriel saved us from Itaril. Never forget.


 
 

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