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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
The Hobbit: the Desolation of Smaug Manual 2013
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Darkstone
Immortal


Aug 30 2013, 7:20pm

Post #51 of 108 (792 views)
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Indeed he was! [In reply to] Can't Post

"Christopher was always much concerned with the consistency of the story and on one occasion interrupted: 'Last time, you said Bilbo's front door was blue, and you said Thorin had a golden tassel on his hood, but you've just said that Bilbo's front door was green, and the tassel on Thorin's hood was silver' at which point Ronald exclaimed 'Damn the boy!' and strode across the room to make a note."
-The Tolkien Family Album, Priscilla and John Tolkien, Houghton Mifflin Co., 1992, p. 58.

******************************************
“That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.”

(This post was edited by Darkstone on Aug 30 2013, 7:22pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 7:22pm

Post #52 of 108 (790 views)
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my bad [In reply to] Can't Post

i was reading that part but didn't post it which I was going to do... Still Thorin never did talk he contemplated it but he only contemplated tell Thranduil WHY they were in his realm which would have led to the treasure,he also thought about giving him a cut, but when he heard Bilbo at the door he threw that out the window and never looked back Wink

And the rest of the dwarfs didn't want the elves to get a share of "their" treasure even though technically they hadn't figured out how to get it away from Smaug yet Angelic... That would be the biggest hurdle Wink


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Aug 30 2013, 7:28pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 7:23pm

Post #53 of 108 (775 views)
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But smart enough to make notes [In reply to] Can't Post

and keep some constancy Wink


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 7:31pm

Post #54 of 108 (767 views)
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I never thought that [In reply to] Can't Post

and it would have been customary in a medieval setting for that to happen, It seems royalty was very territorial back in that era from what I have read. people were know to be executed for trespassing then Wink


malickfan
Gondor


Aug 30 2013, 7:37pm

Post #55 of 108 (769 views)
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Thanks for posting that. [In reply to] Can't Post

And thanks for making me a little annoyed.

None of that is particulary surprising, but I'm rather p'd off Azog is still nosing around prominently (mark my words 'the summer vaction listed below can't be far away) and I really don't see any need to give Bard two more kids, typical PJ why have one when you can have three, ramping it up dosen't make things better. I'll take 1933's T-Rex fight over his King Kong's any day.

The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite, December 2012
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon, December 2013
The Radagast: 'Gandalf are we there yet?' December 2014

The Young Aragron Chronicles parts 1,2,3 and 4 coming Christmas 2017,2018,2019 and 2020 IN 4-D Smell-o-vision.

Azog's Summer Vacation Parts 1-12 coming to ABC Fall 2016.

All based on THE APPENDICES.





The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.


Darkstone
Immortal


Aug 30 2013, 7:40pm

Post #56 of 108 (744 views)
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Yes and no. [In reply to] Can't Post

See all his notes in HoME.

******************************************
“That hobbit has a pleasant face,
His private life is a disgrace.
I really could not tell to you,
The awful things that hobbits do.”


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 7:43pm

Post #57 of 108 (745 views)
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I did say SOME consitency [In reply to] Can't Post

I didn't say he had it ALL the time, but he gets an A for effort IMO... The man created a whole vast world with many many facets to it I'll cut him some slack Wink


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 7:53pm

Post #58 of 108 (736 views)
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Uh-huh... [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
None of that is particulary surprising, but I'm rather p'd off Azog is still nosing around prominently


As if his annoying role wasn't already big enough, now they're tying him to Beorn? Mad


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Aug 30 2013, 7:54pm)


Rembrethil
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 8:06pm

Post #59 of 108 (724 views)
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Too funny!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I can just hear him doing it too!


malickfan
Gondor


Aug 30 2013, 8:11pm

Post #60 of 108 (736 views)
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Wasn't Beorn's Grudge against Orcs supposed to be down to Bolg torturing him? [In reply to] Can't Post

Is this Azog stuff in addition to, or a replacement for this subplot?

And why on Earth do they still have the arrogance to link these films with Tolkien's Hobbit? The Book none of the screenwriters seemed very fond off, and one the filmaker freely admits to enjoying deviating from.

The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite, December 2012
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon, December 2013
The Radagast: 'Gandalf are we there yet?' December 2014

The Young Aragron Chronicles parts 1,2,3 and 4 coming Christmas 2017,2018,2019 and 2020 IN 4-D Smell-o-vision.

Azog's Summer Vacation Parts 1-12 coming to ABC Fall 2016.

All based on THE APPENDICES.





The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 8:21pm

Post #61 of 108 (643 views)
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you shouldn't do that!!! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite, December 2012
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon, December 2013
The Radagast: 'Gandalf are we there yet?' December 2014

The Young Aragron Chronicles parts 1,2,3 and 4 coming Christmas 2017,2018,2019 and 2020 IN 4-D Smell-o-vision.

Azog's Summer Vacation Parts 1-12 coming to ABC Fall 2016.

All based on THE APPENDICES.

MY GOD!!!! I'm laughing so hard I hurt!! (If you werent aware I was in a bad car accident about 3 weeks ago) But this is Hysterically hilarious I can't stop laughing.... SlySlySly

And I whole heartedly agree because I think its a mytery as well why they are still linked to Tolkien's Hobbit. well other than character names and using the places of middle earth it seems like a completely different story Wink



malickfan
Gondor


Aug 30 2013, 8:36pm

Post #62 of 108 (625 views)
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Sin, If you aren't aware [In reply to] Can't Post

I post occasionally on the 'The Hobbit Movie Forum' under my name Paul Ashwell, so yeah I was aware of your unfortunate car accident-best wishes for a speedy recovery btw. Smile, and I'm well aware of your views on AUJ, views which I don't entirely agree with but certainly appreciate. My user icon should give you some idea of my fondness fot Tolkien's book...

It's the British way, instead of writing a sensible reponse explaining why I was dissapointed or annoyed by aspects of Jackson's interpretation, I resorted to petty sarcasmWink.

The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite, December 2012
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon, December 2013
The Radagast: 'Gandalf are we there yet?' December 2014

The Young Aragron Chronicles parts 1,2,3 and 4 coming Christmas 2017,2018,2019 and 2020 IN 4-D Smell-o-vision.

Azog's Summer Vacation Parts 1-12 coming to ABC Fall 2016.

All based on THE APPENDICES.





The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 8:42pm

Post #63 of 108 (613 views)
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I was under that impression myself... [In reply to] Can't Post

It seemed as if they were setting up Bolg to be Beorn's "mortal enemy", presumably because Beorn *spoiler* kills Bolg in the story.

But now with this news about Azog wiping out the rest of the Beornings, who knows anymore. All I know is that my least favorite Jackson deviation is getting FAR too prominent a role for my taste. I was hoping he'd sit this movie out for the most part, maybe pop up once or something like that, and then show up at the Bo5A in TaBA like we all know he's going to. But no, every time I turn around, his role seems to get bigger. All I can do is shake my head.

As AinurOlorin is quite fond of saying, "GO HOME AZOG, YOU'RE DEAD"


malickfan
Gondor


Aug 30 2013, 8:51pm

Post #64 of 108 (610 views)
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But you are forgetting one thing [In reply to] Can't Post

They have...THE APPENDICES.

I've got to admit I actually like Azog's design but detest the character, his dialogue, his fork, his size, his body language, his screentime, his prominence, the related butchering of Dain's backstory, and frankly his existance so yeah why couldn't he take a unexpected trip home instead of poor old Samwise.

To me it seems Azog's almost turning into a metaphor for PJ's deviations, the cheesy bolted on subplot chasing itself in circles whilst desperately trying to be scary and relevant by creeping into the main plot unexpectly.

Though as my signature below alludes to, I fear he had become a hit with the general moviegoer and we may sadly be seing much much more of him.

The Thorin: An Unexpected Rewrite, December 2012
The Tauriel: Desolation of Canon, December 2013
The Radagast: 'Gandalf are we there yet?' December 2014

The Young Aragron Chronicles parts 1,2,3 and 4 coming Christmas 2017,2018,2019 and 2020 IN 4-D Smell-o-vision.

Azog's Summer Vacation Parts 1-12 coming to ABC Fall 2016.

All based on THE APPENDICES.





The Talking Purse is Awesome, deal with it.


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 9:37pm

Post #65 of 108 (578 views)
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Not when he had Thorin and the Dwarves locked up, though... [In reply to] Can't Post

They refused to tell him why they had stumbled into his realm and caused a disturbance. That is the reason he locked them up, to make them talk.

The quote you gave is his reaction hearing the real reason for the Dwarves' journey once they had escaped down the river and revealed themselves at Laketown. Having made that statement about no treasure coming back through Mirkwood without him having something to say about it, he immediately followed it by expressing the belief that the Dwarves wouldn't manage to defeat the dragon and would "come to a bad end and serve them right!"

To my mind, just because a character in a book "threatens" to do something in the event, doesn't mean the movie scriptwriter has carte blanche to make the character actually do it at a different time in the story.


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


(This post was edited by Eleniel on Aug 30 2013, 9:38pm)


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 9:50pm

Post #66 of 108 (579 views)
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It wasn't thto do with it being a cup that was stolen... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the importance is that a single piece of the hoard was taken, and Smaug knew immediately he woke up that something was wrong. It's a common device in fairytales...the evil character always knows "magically" that something is wrong when the hero is attempting to steal his prize...


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Skaan
Lorien


Aug 30 2013, 9:56pm

Post #67 of 108 (561 views)
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Well [In reply to] Can't Post

How is one cup missing different than the Arkenstone missing? They're both single pieces of the hoard and that's why Smaug is probably looking for it and wants it back (because Bilbo stole from his hoard)

I really don't see the big deal with this other than "It's not like the book"


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 10:09pm

Post #68 of 108 (558 views)
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Again its not what's taken its just that something is taken [In reply to] Can't Post

making it the Arkenstone Smaug wants is IMO another unnecessary deviation. One that to me doesn't make much sense...What would Smaug need with the Arkenstone? To him I'm sure it would be just another gem nothing special. dragons coveted riches. I do not think the type really matter rubies, emeralds, white gems, gold, silver, doesn't matter because they do nothing with it. They lay on it, roll in it, do whatever they want with it but have a real use for it. Other than it is something they want. Hence the term dragon sickness.

The only character the Arkenstone should be important to is Thorin since Jackson has already made it some divine thing meaning Thorin can rule. Smaug would have no use for that he is arrogant and believes he is ruler under the mountain already simply because he took the mountain from the dwarfs, he has no minions to rule over it is just him so he needs no symbol that it was meant for him to rule like Thorin.

Maybe he wants it to plug that hole in his left breast that the thrush sees who knows Crazy


(This post was edited by sinister71 on Aug 30 2013, 10:11pm)


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 10:12pm

Post #69 of 108 (543 views)
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exactly [In reply to] Can't Post

It's plain as day to me. Tolkien knew what he was doing Wink


QuackingTroll
Valinor


Aug 30 2013, 10:31pm

Post #70 of 108 (615 views)
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Speaking as a straight male, I still have to say... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Bard is the most attractive Middle-earth character so far. He's taken Eowyn off of the top spot for me. Blush


Eleniel
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 10:45pm

Post #71 of 108 (539 views)
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I didn't say there was any difference in that respect... [In reply to] Can't Post

My post was in reply to Jim asking what the significance of the cup was...


"Choosing Trust over Doubt gets me burned once in a while, but I'd rather be singed than hardened."
¯ Victoria Monfort


Sinister71
Tol Eressea


Aug 30 2013, 10:49pm

Post #72 of 108 (553 views)
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I was waiting for Bard [In reply to] Can't Post

to show up with his ship from Davy Jones Locker HeartHeartHeart What do you mean Bard wasn't in Pirates of the Caribbean ? ShockedOops sorry wrong film he looks so much like Will Turner I got them confused... my bad Tongue


Thranderz
Rohan


Aug 30 2013, 10:49pm

Post #73 of 108 (555 views)
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Love these images! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you so much for posting them! I know it's a big ask but can you post as many as possible? I know I'm greedy. Wink Or is that most of the main ones? Thanks again!

I simply walked into Mordor.


Skaan
Lorien


Aug 30 2013, 11:02pm

Post #74 of 108 (522 views)
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That was not what i said [In reply to] Can't Post

I said that the reason Smaug is looking for the Arkenstone is probably because it's a piece of his hoard which Bilbo stole, not because it's the Arkenstone itself.

It'll probably be like: Bilbo steals the Arkenstone because he knows it's an important jewel for Thorin => Smaug gets angry because he notices a piece of his hoard is missing.


Lio
Lorien


Aug 30 2013, 11:07pm

Post #75 of 108 (527 views)
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Beorn/Bolg/Azog subplot [In reply to] Can't Post

I think (or hope!) they keep whatever original backstory they had in mind for Beorn and Bolg, and don't reduce Bolg's role. The Azog stuff could still work though. He's Bolg's dad after all so it could very well be they are both involved in the Beorn/skinchanger subplot. In fact,when Azog is mentioned to Beorn might be a good time to introduce Bolg as well.

I'm a bit surprised, though, that apparently Azog chases the company all the way to Beorn's house? Not sure how the Orcs could have caught up with them so quickly after the eagle rescue? Crazy

Dwalin Balin Kili Fili Dori Nori Ori Oin Gloin Bifur Bofur Bombur Thorin

Orcs are mammals!

"Don't laugh at the Dwarves because they will mess you up." — Dean O'Gorman (Fili)

Want to chat? AIM me at Yami Liokaiser!

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