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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 2 2013, 2:33pm
Post #276 of 371
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Of course, what Peter Jackson should have done - it becomes apparent now - was to invite each of us to New Zealand in person to inspect all the material that has so far not been used and select our own additional scenes. Personalised EEs. Would everyone be happy then, do you think.... "I doubt it, said the Carpenter, and shed a bitter tear." 
And in the spirit of logical conclusions, dare I point out that we don't actually know that there ever was an extra 7-12 minutes. Perhaps he was just estimating and, like the utility companies when they write their bills, over-estimating. As you say, we will never know (but that's never stopped anyone yet!)
I'm glad you've been enjoying it!
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Foromir
Rivendell
Aug 2 2013, 2:36pm
Post #277 of 371
(14020 views)
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Indeed. To those who are upset about the deemed shortage of new scenes,
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I may advise to imagine the "withheld" 7-12 minutes consisting of scenes involving the rumored Goblin King potty throne, humorous dwarvish bodily noises, food fights or generally more OTT action extravaganza.
It really eases the mind to think that PJ took heart and decided to omit all this fan-feared extra material and to leave only the "pure gold" character-based additions.
Of course that scenario could be proven terribly wrong once the EE actually comes out, but at least in the meantime peace of mind will be more likely to be had. 
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Altaira
Superuser
Aug 2 2013, 2:56pm
Post #278 of 371
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I've edited personal comments out of your replies to each other. If you can't respond to what each other says without including incredulous insults, or commenting about the other person instead of what they said, please avoid the other person.
Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.
"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower
"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase
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DjU
Lorien
Aug 2 2013, 3:02pm
Post #279 of 371
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I agree. In fact I reckon there is potentially a very logical and rational explanation for quite a chunk of the footage that people deem to be "missing" or that they believe they were "promised" - its the same idea that many people have mentioned and even you have mentioned and that is that some of it has been moved to Film 2. Obviously some people may prefer to believe that we have been lied to and they secretly hiding the footage but then that’s their prerogative.
Two words to keep in mind - High Fells
The comments from PJ about the Extended Cut being 20-25 minutes long were made on December 8th 2012, they had only just finished the final cut of AUJ and Premiered it the week before, so despite the EE 'being finished' then, things could have easily changed once the Pre-production and more importantly script refinements for the pickups took place after Christmas and the promotion of AUJ.
It is also amusing how people are using the upper limit – 25 minutes – for their arguments, the comment was 20-25 minutes, it is highly unlikely PJ had got a stopwatch out and exactly timed the exact run time of the footage, it could have been 20,21,22,23,24 or 25 mins, shucks it could have been 19 minutes or even 26 minutes!
So to the High Fells scene
Until the Live Event on the 27th March it is safe to say the general assumption amongst most that the High Fells scene/subplot would still be inserted back into the AUJ:EE so when they premiered it as a sneak clip from DoS it was a bit of a surprise.
The scene that was previewed in the Live Event was about 2mins 20secs long, it is also clear to anyone who has seen it that it missing its beginning and likely its ending, it just begins with Gandalf inside the Tombs lighting his staff and it does end a bit abruptly.
With some context of where Gandalf is (we know from the art book that they scouted and design the outside of the High Fells) and some more resolution at the end of the scene the whole scene could be well over 4 minutes potentially more but that’s being a bit generous.
We also know from watching the B-roll behind the scenes footage of the White Council that there was more filmed there with a bit more related to the ‘Angmar Blade’. With the High Fells scene omitted until the second movie any expectation of these scenes now being back in the EE are removed as they become little redundant.
Maybe these WC scenes were never going to be put back in but it’s worth keeping in mind, if they were that would also add some time. It’ll be interesting to see if they are in or out (and to hear the commentary).
All of the above would potentially cover at least a good 5 minutes that could easily have been part of the 20-25 back in December.
Obviously this doesn’t account for the full perceived shortfall in footage but the are other minor things that could have been moved (such as more Azanulbizar now that we know that the seem to be bulking that up yet again for DoS or TaBA now that they are going to a bit about Thrain).
And finally maybe there is a scene or two that have been removed completely upon PJ reviewing the EE cut back, we know there is much that never made it into LotR but made it mighty close.
Maybe I’m completely wrong. But I’d like to think it makes much more sense to maybe sit back and think about things we know rather than blindly running around and claiming there is a conspiracy to deny us footage.
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Welsh hero
Gondor
Aug 2 2013, 3:12pm
Post #280 of 371
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Disk 1 & 2: Film
Disk 3 & 4: Special features
so what is disk 5. more features? the original cut?
-Irfon
Twitter: @IrfonPennant
middle earth timeline FB: https://www.facebook.com/MiddleEarth1
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Aug 2 2013, 3:30pm
Post #281 of 371
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will be interesting to see
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 2 2013, 3:40pm
Post #282 of 371
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I can't imagine it is the UV copy ...
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Since that is normally* just a code given in the box. Assuming that will be the case, perhaps:
Disc 1 & 2: 3D blu-ray film
Disc 3: Blu-ray film
Discs 4 & 5: Special features
But that doesn't explain why all the non-3D DVD formats would have 5 discs?
* Judging by my AUJ blu-ray DVD
(This post was edited by DanielLB on Aug 2 2013, 3:40pm)
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DjU
Lorien
Aug 2 2013, 4:16pm
Post #283 of 371
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I'd expect the The Desolation of Smaug Preview is the 2 minute High Fells scene that was shown at the Live Event, I doubt it would be the whole Live Event.
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TheHutt
Gondor
Aug 2 2013, 5:10pm
Post #284 of 371
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...will be something like we had on the TEs of FOTR and TTT. :)
Russian LOTR & Hobbit Site: Henneth-Annun.ru
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Darkstone
Immortal
Aug 2 2013, 5:22pm
Post #285 of 371
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The thing is, we older TORnsibs have been through all this already with the LOTR films and their respective EEs, so on the one hand it's easy to empathize with (and on the other to get impatient with) the people who are upset, the people who are upset with the people who are upset, the people who are upset with the people who are not upset, and all the other permutations of perturbation.
As Barenaked Ladies put it, "It's all been done before".
I come from a time when it was rare to meet someone who'd even read Tolkien, so when you finally did you were just about automatically friends. I really wish I could think of words to help my fellow fans in Tolkien and/or Jackson calm down, but sometimes the best thing to do is just let people vent.
Namárië!
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
(This post was edited by Darkstone on Aug 2 2013, 5:24pm)
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Arannir
Valinor
Aug 2 2013, 5:27pm
Post #286 of 371
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I for one will certainly remind myself of your post...
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... whenever I get upset. Much healthier approach to the internet in general.
“A dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of men’s imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.” J.R.R. Tolkien
Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.
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Darkstone
Immortal
Aug 2 2013, 6:00pm
Post #287 of 371
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If only Fox had gotten the film rights to The Hobbit....
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...everyone would be happy!!
http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/...venture-movie-566228
******************************************
The audacious proposal stirred his heart. And the stirring became a song, and it mingled with the songs of Gil-galad and Celebrian, and with those of Feanor and Fingon. The song-weaving created a larger song, and then another, until suddenly it was as if a long forgotten memory woke and for one breathtaking moment the Music of the Ainur revealed itself in all glory. He opened his lips to sing and share this song. Then he realized that the others would not understand. Not even Mithrandir given his current state of mind. So he smiled and simply said "A diversion.”
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dormouse
Half-elven
Aug 2 2013, 6:10pm
Post #288 of 371
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Ah, but think of the arguments -
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- sorry, discussions, we would have over whose chosen storyline was the best! 
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Cirashala
Valinor
Aug 2 2013, 6:16pm
Post #289 of 371
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Well, when a film has a principal cast of fifteen very busy people, I would imagine that would cause issues with making sure everyone could get together for three hours to watch and talk.
Not only that, but by the time everyone mentions their thoughts on a specific scene, you will already be two scenes ahead!
Honestly, perhaps they didn't include the cast commentary because the principal cast is just too darn big.
Plus, like I mentioned just above, several of the actors are now on other projects, so why would they spend the time and money to fly halfway around the world (for most of them), risk jet lag, and delay their other projects simply to watch a three hour movie and fight the other fourteen (or fifteen, if PJ is also with them) for the chance to speak?
I would imagine it would honestly be like trying to watch a film with fifteen/sixteen inquisitive first graders and having to pause every two seconds so someone can ask their question or say their mind. Not saying the actors are immature or anything, but two sentences from each person would add up to taking the entire scene if not more on many points.
Not only would it likely drive the cast nuts, but as viewers it would likely drive us nuts to because we would miss whatever they were talking about in order to catch both the dialogue in the film and what the actors have to say about it.
(This post was edited by Ataahua on Aug 2 2013, 8:35pm)
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Estel78
Tol Eressea
Aug 2 2013, 6:28pm
Post #290 of 371
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As if somebody believes we have been lied to...
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Sure, PJ lied to us, just for jest. Seriously? It was an estimate, he changed - or somebody made him change (perhaps WB didn't want to pay for the SFX) - his mind as to which scenes to put in. "Promised"? Also, no. We are adults, i think we know things can change. That doesn't mean we can't be disappointed.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Aug 2 2013, 6:32pm
Post #291 of 371
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Although I see what you're saying i really don't agree. These things are planned out in advance, not last minute. You may not have to have the entire cast but you certainly could have some of the cast or do it in groups. New Line did it for LOTR with little problem and there was a large cast there too with Elijah, Sean, Orlando, Viggo, Hugo, Cate Blanchette, Sean Bean, Ian etc. I think it should have been done.
I will say with Freeman it might be hard because he honestly can't go 20 seconds without dropping the F bomb or another curse word. Maybe they did try it and it was taking too long to get it right. LOL! :)
But honestly, I think it's just that WB didn't think it was needed. Sad really because for me it's the one thing on the EE I really wanted. For me it may mean the difference between buying it or not. But hey that's life. Not much I can do about it. I'm fine with the 13 minutes and all. But that stuff is going to end up online somewhere.
I do think Peter's releasing the VBlogs in a way made the EE somewhat more challenging. A lot of the background stuff we normally didn't see till the EE we have seen in the vblogs so it makes it hard to come up with stuff that's new.
But to me the cast commentary should have been planned and should have been there.
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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DanielLB
Immortal
Aug 2 2013, 6:39pm
Post #292 of 371
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Are cast commentaries common features in other DVD releases?
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I'm sure they are common, but not all DVDs come with them, surely? What if the LOTR extended editions had never come with them. Would we be questioning it now?
It's that pesky LOTR trilogy that's causing this problem. Too many (natural) comparisons being made with it.
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Elessar
Valinor
Aug 2 2013, 6:42pm
Post #293 of 371
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I don't think AUJ needs fixing either. Sure there are a few things I don't like but I don't need it fixed. I expect the EE to only make things even more better much like the LOTR EE made those films even better.
I dislike the implication myself. I buy and like what I like for me. It's always great when others agree and we can geek out together but I'm not gonna sweat those that don't feel the same.
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Aug 2 2013, 6:48pm
Post #294 of 371
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They do seem to be more common on large films like Silence of the Lambs or Pirates. Still there are some directors like Spielberg who don't like them and won't do them. many films have actor audio commentaries though and they are inexpensive and easy to produce.
I'm glad others like the EE and I think that's great. It's just for me it's the one thing I really wanted. It's kind of like buying a car: some things you want in a car, others you don't care. It comes down to personal taste. I think it's a shame though it wasn't added.
I find this line instructive:
from: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Audio_commentary
"The 2007 DVD for The Fountain did not include a commentary track because Warner Bros. did not feel that adding one would help sales. However, director Darren Aronofsky recorded a commentary track on his own and made the track available for free download on his personal website.[4]"
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
(This post was edited by Ham_Sammy on Aug 2 2013, 6:53pm)
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea
Aug 2 2013, 7:03pm
Post #296 of 371
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I loved AUJ and don't feel any of it needs fixing or otherwise. I have enjoyed the TE very much, saw it in the cinema 8 times and loved every minute of it.
As I said it's like any product you buy and you have stated it well. If you like it buy it, if you don't then don't. I have said my piece about my feelings but that doesn't make AUJ any less a film for me nor does it mean that the EE is somehow terrible (I still think WB is hamhanded when it comes to design and marketing though). It just means that it wasn't what I was looking for.
Life goes on as it pretty much has this past age though right? All is good. My son is returning from a summer of serving in the slums of Calcutta with the urban poor. I look forward to hearing his stories and I suspect none of the things we are concerned about here are of any concern to him nor to those with whom he worked side by side with. It's all good. It's all about perspective. Sometimes I need a big dose of it myself. 
Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13
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Elessar
Valinor
Aug 2 2013, 7:11pm
Post #297 of 371
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Inset virtual high-five here :)
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Brethil
Half-elven
Aug 2 2013, 7:23pm
Post #298 of 371
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(*High Five*) Back atcha Elessar!
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Always love to geek out with you!
Do you know I actually sort of 'forgot' about the EE coming out, and was quite shocked to see that it is only about 13 weeks away!!!??? So its like an Easter egg to read about it and have it be that close!!!!  
Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!
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Elessar
Valinor
Aug 2 2013, 7:25pm
Post #299 of 371
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You got me by 3. I only saw it 5 times. lol
WB hasn't handled the marketing or packaging as well as I'd like. I guess I expected them to be able to just match what NL did with LOTR. I'm still excited about the EE and the gift set but the styling could be better.
I agree. Most people outside of our circle don't sweat this stuff at all. I guarantee the inner city kids I teach don't care. lol I hear that. Sometimes you get so wrapped up in your little world you need a reminder. Which isn't a bad thing at all.
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Brethil
Half-elven
Aug 2 2013, 7:26pm
Post #300 of 371
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...another *High Five* to your son HS. Good for him!
Is there a Tolkien topic that you have wanted to look into more deeply, and write about your thoughts on it? If so, we'd like to hear from you for the next TORn Amateur Symposium- coming in November. Happy writing!
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