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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
As promised a SPOLIER heavy look at the Empire DOS Issue, needless to say those 'appendices' are more detailed then I remeber...
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emre43
Rohan

Jun 26 2013, 5:11pm

Post #51 of 253 (953 views)
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I read The Hobbit before LOTR when I was a teenager and didn't like it much. [In reply to] Can't Post

I then watched PJ's LOTR and read the Lord of the Rings. Personally, in my opinion, PJ's adaptation of the Hobbit is far more entertaining to me than Tolkien's book ever was.


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 5:17pm

Post #52 of 253 (944 views)
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Interesting [In reply to] Can't Post

I read The Hobbit after reading LOTR (and seeing the films), Unfinished Tales and parts of The Silmarillion aged 17 and I really enjoyed it-I liked the fact that it was a simple generic fairytale not bogged down with language or detailed backstory, even now I still like its simplicity.

It dosen't have the depth or action of PJ's film no, but neither were necessary for me to enjoy the story, I think its a little sad its always compared to LOTR, when it was written as a sepearate story never intended to be published.

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 26 2013, 5:25pm

Post #53 of 253 (922 views)
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So far for me as well! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Personally, in my opinion, PJ's adaptation of the Hobbit is far more entertaining to me than Tolkien's book ever was.


P.S. Will there be robots in AUJ as well as Legolas and Tauriel (to attract Chinese market)?


(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Jun 26 2013, 5:31pm)


emre43
Rohan

Jun 26 2013, 5:26pm

Post #54 of 253 (934 views)
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I probably would have enjoyed it if I read the book when I was 5 or 6 [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that there is so much negative news on the television and in the papers and in the media. It is nice to see the amazing act of compassion and humanity that Bilbo shows to Thorin at the end of AUJ. Tolkien himself stated that he wished that he had written the Hobbit in the same tone as LOTR as it is the same world and, with the greatest of respect, the two books portray almost completely different worlds. PJ has achieved this and created a more adult version of Tolkien's children book.


emre43
Rohan

Jun 26 2013, 5:28pm

Post #55 of 253 (923 views)
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True so far [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't see what evidence there is to suggest that Legolas was not involved in events of The Hobbit. Tolkien simply hadn't created the character yet.


daemoon
Rivendell

Jun 26 2013, 5:42pm

Post #56 of 253 (1010 views)
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Some new stills from the magazine [In reply to] Can't Post

http://www.comicbookmovie.com/fansites/JoshWildingNewsAndReviews/news/?a=82262


burgahobbit
Rohan


Jun 26 2013, 5:54pm

Post #57 of 253 (993 views)
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Did Peter Jackson really say all this?!?! [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
'This will probably get me struck off The One Ring party list but I am enjoying deviating from the book'-Jackson.





Quote
'The bedtime lilt of Tolkien's debut novel however charming is long gone'




Did someone take the real quotes and exaggerate them? In the past Peter Jackson has always beat around the bush; tried his best to keep the fans happy even though he was really changing the story a lot. Take this quote of his to justify the trilogy decision for example, "What people have to realize is we’ve adapted The Hobbit, plus taken this additional 125 pages of notes, that’s what you’d call them. Because Tolkien himself was planning to rewrite The Hobbit after The Lord of the Rings". Fair enough, but actually those 125 pages of "notes" aren't really "notes" about The Hobbit, but additional information about what happened before, during, and after the events of LOTR, very few of which actually relate to the hobbit. Further more, these very few pages that do relate to the hobbit were barely used, and were changed so greatly that they hardly even resemble the "notes" anymore.

Now what I'm trying to say is that Peter Jackson often says what people want to hear. If the production video is coming out within the next five months, tell them it is going to be out very, very, soon. I think this is a completely normal attitude, even if it isn't honest, and that very many people exaggerate things to get the point across. I've gotten used to it and so when I hear PJ say something I'll take it with a grain of salt and move on. What I'm wondering is if Peter Jackson got sick of trying to justify every little thing he does and just decided to let out the cold truth, even if it stings a little to us fans. Is anyone else feeling this way?

Normally I support PJ and the movies in general. I usually support them avidly and I argue (mostly nicely) with the purists, but this time I feel as if Peter Jackson has finally let go of the struggle at the end of the journey and claimed, "The Ring is mine."


(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Jun 26 2013, 6:03pm)


burgahobbit
Rohan


Jun 26 2013, 5:56pm

Post #58 of 253 (911 views)
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Sorry about the ramble [In reply to] Can't Post

And I'm sorry if the above post seems harsh. I'm a huge fan of Jackson and his works, and I really don't want to be rude. I'm just shocked at the 180 turn I see in PJ's interview strategy and I wanted to see if anyone shares my opinion.

"I have found it is in the small things, everyday deeds of ordinary folk, that keep the darkness at bay. Simple acts of kindness and love. Why Bilbo Baggins? Perhaps it is because I am afraid, and he gives me courage." - Gandalf the Grey.

"Do not be afraid Mithrandir. You are not alone. If ever you should need my help, I will come." -Lady Galadriel.

(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Jun 26 2013, 6:05pm)


bungobaggins
Lorien

Jun 26 2013, 6:02pm

Post #59 of 253 (892 views)
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Wow. That's a great analogy to all this. [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
but this time I feel as if Peter Jackson has finally let go of the struggle at the end of the journey and claimed, "The Ring is mine."


I am in general agreement with you. You're not alone.



LordGawain
Rivendell

Jun 26 2013, 6:02pm

Post #60 of 253 (895 views)
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Dunno [In reply to] Can't Post

I feel similar, which actually leads me to conclude that this was the editor or journalist exaggerating.


burgahobbit
Rohan


Jun 26 2013, 6:04pm

Post #61 of 253 (885 views)
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I hope your right [In reply to] Can't Post

I really just can't imagine Peter Jackson saying those things.

(This post was edited by burgahobbit on Jun 26 2013, 6:06pm)


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jun 26 2013, 6:04pm

Post #62 of 253 (911 views)
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I'd take issue [In reply to] Can't Post

With the idea that there is a single entity, "us fans", that excludes Jackson and the others on this project, and includes all who might be considered fans of Tolkien. He is one of us, and the rest of us have varying views on "The Hobbit" (comments to this thread alone reveal the presence of fans who prefer a "more adult" Hobbit, that poster's characterization of Jackson's series.)

Personally, as an individual fan, I am not offended by any of the comments reported from the Empire article. As someone who plans to see the next film, I am pleased to hear its director has enjoyed the process of making it, as in my opinion this bodes well for the finished product. But I will have to wait for December to see what I really think of it.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jun 26 2013, 6:04pm

Post #63 of 253 (877 views)
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It's funny [In reply to] Can't Post

Your spoilerific post lifted me up and dropped me down on every other line. I am thrilled to hear about the Necromacer's mo-cap, Bolg finally being introduced, Smaug interacting with the dwarves more, Bard and even the Master gets a couple individual scenes??. All of that sounds really cool and interesting!

I don't like anything "Mirkwood elves" besides Thranduil. Not a fan of assassin orcs in lake town, trippy Mirkwood(more mushroom BS?), did I mention Legolas and Tauriel yet? Those will be my "boring" parts of the movie I'll bet. Who wants to listen to them for more than 5-6 minutes at the most.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 26 2013, 6:08pm

Post #64 of 253 (885 views)
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HAHAHAHA [In reply to] Can't Post

 'I've been up in trees and scaled walls, I scale an orc at one point-she's almost ninja-esque' Lilly enthuses. Jackson has shown her some fight scenes edited togather.'She's just slicing through themlike blades of grass to get to the finish line'. she says. 'She has no problem killing that is waht she does. She is a killing machine'.

Sigh. Looks like Arwen the Amazonian Warlord has been resurected


This sounds so terrible i cant...avoid....not laughing my tears off!!MadCrazyLaughCrazy


Thanks you for posting this. Appreciated.

Now, more reading.

Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Jun 26 2013, 6:09pm)


burgahobbit
Rohan


Jun 26 2013, 6:10pm

Post #65 of 253 (854 views)
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I'm not offended [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm just greatly surprised by what I see. It doesn't seem Jackson style.

(PS, my original post was to harsh and I apologize to PJ and everyone who read it. I've cut out the harsher lines and tried to tone it down a bit.)


entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 26 2013, 6:14pm

Post #66 of 253 (889 views)
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I agree. He's a fan just as much as we are fans. [In reply to] Can't Post

And he has his own opinions of what should and should not be in the movies. Just like us.

I was at the One Party in 2004 when Peter and the film crew joined us, and I could see the joy on his face to be with all of us to celebrate the success of the movies. His comment in the Empire article was a shout-out to his fellow fans, acknowledging that we all have differing perspectives, and some of his ideas might not be as well-received.


Shagrat
Gondor

Jun 26 2013, 6:14pm

Post #67 of 253 (846 views)
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Not sure [In reply to] Can't Post

But I really don't think Jackson would say 'the bedtime lilt of Tolkien's debut novel however charming is long gone'. That sounds more like the writer of the article leading into a quote. Why would Jackson say 'Tolkien's debut novel'?


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 6:22pm

Post #68 of 253 (857 views)
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Yes just to clear up [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
'the bedtime lilt of Tolkien's debut novel however charming is long gone'


Was the work of the article writer (part of a longer sentence along the same lines), but the comment about being throen of by The One Ring was by Jackson.

Sorry if I wasn't cleae enough I posted the info as quicky as I could without checking for grammar or spelling issues. The Tone of the article is along the same lines in anycase, the writer didn't seem to be over familar with the books.

Technically wouldn't Tolkien's debut be Songs For the Philogists or The Book of Lost Tales? I know the first wasn't a narrartive, and the second went unpubslished but both are long enough to be 'novels' aren't they?


This is not a very interesting signature is it?


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jun 26 2013, 6:23pm

Post #69 of 253 (845 views)
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Bedtime Lilt [In reply to] Can't Post

The OP does not attribute that quote to Jackson. I have not seen the article myself, but my understanding is that this is a direct quote from the article, and thus is the reporter's characterization of the movie and the book. (The reporter is saying the tone of the movie is darker and more adult than the novel's, which the reporter considers a suitable bedtime tale for young children. )

The OP does indicate that the comment on making changes and the TORn party list is in the article as a direct quote by Jackson.


nhui06
Rivendell

Jun 26 2013, 6:30pm

Post #70 of 253 (887 views)
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Thanks! [In reply to] Can't Post

My thoughts:

- Predict Legolas will turn from a dwarf-hating narrow-minded elf to someone who is more open and want to see the world (hence his role in the Fellowship).

- Curious why the Orcs are making an appearance so early into the game. I thought the BOT5A was that the Men and Elves fight the Dwarves but then they had to put aside their differences quickly to fight the Orcs. Why have the Elves fight the Orcs now?

- Cool we will see more of the Necromencer (not just the Slenderman version).

- I have this feeling that PJ is using these films to use some of his previously rejected action sequences from LOTR. For example, the orcs entering Mirkwood was orginally a scene where the Orcs chase the fellowship into Lotheirien. This whole Orcs chasing the company to Laketown may be reusing a scene PJ wanted with a night Warg ambush in Edoras.

- Wow so it is confirmed that we will be visiting Moria again? Maybe the transferring of the Map and Key will be done in Moria then? Gandalf probably visits to see what the commotion is about, and finds Thrain there mad with grief. Also, DOS will start somewhere familiar but unexpected, so I think this also hints at Thrain and Gandalf in Moria.

- Interesting idea about the Dwarves battling Smaug. I always thought it was weird in the book that Smaug was so hyped up, but the dwarves never got to fight him (sent the burglar), only to be shot by the men of Laketown. Also, I think PJ is doing away with the whole Bilbo Burglar thing... I mean Biblo admitted at the end of AUJ that he wasn't a burglar...


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 6:43pm

Post #71 of 253 (869 views)
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I agree about *spoilers* [In reply to] Can't Post

Smaug's death being a little random in the book. But I guess it was down to Tolkien leaving the last third unwritten for a few years, (I kinda liked the fact the Dwarves were a little useless in the book-Its more of a comedy than a drama to me), I'm not sure about Gandalf and Thrain though-he does seem to know more than he is letting on (as shown by his glance to Balin about Azog in AUJ), but I'm certain he would have told Thorin about receiving the key at Moria given the two of them were both there.

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


(This post was edited by entmaiden on Jun 26 2013, 8:10pm)


architecthis
Lorien


Jun 26 2013, 6:49pm

Post #72 of 253 (851 views)
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Yes, lets take all this with a grain of salt... [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean we have no reason to take this ridiculousness too seriously...

besides the trailer.......

Oh, and the entire first film...............

Yup, it's probably just hyperbole.


arithmancer
Grey Havens


Jun 26 2013, 6:56pm

Post #73 of 253 (818 views)
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Burglar [In reply to] Can't Post

Though it seems pretty likely to me that Bilbo will evade capture by the Elves, and steal food to survive, and the keys to the Dwarves' cells to aid their escape, in Mirkwood. So I think they will keep the burglar thing up, despite Bilbo's protestations to the contrary in AUJ.


nhui06
Rivendell

Jun 26 2013, 6:57pm

Post #74 of 253 (809 views)
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Aftermath [In reply to] Can't Post

I think Thrain shows up long after the battle (at least after the Dwarves leave). One thing not explained in that segment was why the Dwarves did not reclaim Moria after defeating the Orcs. I mean we see Azog and his minions run back into Moria, but why didn't the Dwarves go after them and clean house (the book explains this). I wonder if they will continue with this story in the Prologue for DOS. Maybe Thrain gathers enough courage to to enter Moria, but Gandalf stops him warning him of both Azog and the Balrog. Thrain is stubborn and wants revenge on Azog, so he gives the map and key to Gandalf in case he does not return. We later find out that Thrain was unable to finish the job, as he gets captured and sent to Dol Guldur, which is where Gandalf later sees him again.

Gandalf does not want to tell Thorin about his encounter with Thrain because he wants Thorin to stay focus on his quest to defeat Smaug, no seek revenge on (now) both his father and grandfather and suffer the same fate (never under estimate Azog).


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 26 2013, 7:07pm

Post #75 of 253 (834 views)
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A part knowone had picked up on-Thrnaduil having 'a reputation as the greatest warrior in Middle Earth' [In reply to] Can't Post

I don't knoe about you Guys but I always assumed that was Aragorn or the Witchking.

Could this be part of the films (we did see Lee Pace practising Sword Fighting ages back in one of the earlier V.Blogs) or like the Dwarven backstory for Bofor, Bifur etc merely something to give the actors more material to base their perforamnces on?

This is not a very interesting signature is it?

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