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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Accepting what The Hobbit trilogy has become...
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 9:55pm

Post #51 of 76 (384 views)
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Oh i'd go [In reply to] Can't Post

In a heartbeat for sure.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 10:29pm

Post #52 of 76 (396 views)
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I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

For some of us (myself included), it has to do with how well we knew the books before seeing the movies. I hadn't read the books before seeing FOTR, so I had no clue about what was left out, what was changed, etc. After seeing FOTR, I read through all 3 books, but my reading of FOTR was certainly colored by the fact that I saw the movie first. I was overall less happy with TTT and ROTK, but I still felt Jackson did a good job condensing the story (because remember, LOTR HAD to be condensed for time purposes). The visual style he presented in the LOTR trilogy was excellent, which I think also might have contributed to my more accepting response to the LOTR movies.

On the other hand, I knew The Hobbit (and the LOTR Appendices) like the back of my hand by the time AUJ came out, and so the changes were much more glaring to me. The first few times I saw AUJ, I was super amped-up and didn't want to admit that PJ maybe didn't do it as much justice as I would have liked. However, over time the changes bothered me more and more, and I'm at the point now where I can't watch AUJ without the PJ concoctions taking me out of the film a bit, and to an extent (and totally just my opinion), disrespecting what I feel TH is supposed to be all about. So far, I feel like Jackson has gone out of his way to emphasize Thorin, and he's rewritten his backstory in an attempt to turn TH into a story that rivals LOTR in scope (which it does not). I can still enjoy the movie, but not as much as I would have had Jackson stuck a bit closer to the text and the scope of the story (both for The Hobbit AND the Appendices). Azog's presence, in particular, still bothers me greatly. I also find the change in visual style a bit disappointing, especially with regard to the orcs. The orcs throughout the LOTR trilogy looked real to me, all of the orcs in AUJ (save Yazneg and Fimbul) looked horribly cartoony and not threatening in the least.

On a positive note, the wargs, while far from perfect and still too cartoony, are MILES better than the hyena-wargs in TTT. And although I'm record as thinking that the writing so far has been bad-to-average, I think the acting was top-notch- I particularly loved Freeman's Bilbo.

Anyway, I will most certainly see DoS, but after seeing the trailer, it looks to me like Jackson is taking everything I found disappointing with AUJ and running with it. I can only hope I'm wrong Smile


bungobaggins
Lorien


Jun 16 2013, 10:33pm

Post #53 of 76 (384 views)
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What exactly was "trilgoy Tuesday"? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!" - Gandalf

Darth Bungo: "Gandalf the Gray never told you what happened to your father."
Bilbo Barrel-rider: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him."
Darth Bungo: "No, I am your father."


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 16 2013, 10:39pm

Post #54 of 76 (377 views)
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An event [In reply to] Can't Post

held back in December 2003 when they showed the EE of Fellowship of the Ring and The Two Towers before the midnight premiere of The Return of the King. It was a pretty special day and I hope they do that for The Hobbit Trilogy.



bungobaggins
Lorien


Jun 16 2013, 10:41pm

Post #55 of 76 (350 views)
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Ah, thanks!// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!" - Gandalf

Darth Bungo: "Gandalf the Gray never told you what happened to your father."
Bilbo Barrel-rider: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him."
Darth Bungo: "No, I am your father."


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 16 2013, 10:43pm

Post #56 of 76 (351 views)
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No problem :) [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 10:44pm

Post #57 of 76 (376 views)
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the day before [In reply to] Can't Post

ROTK opened at midnight on Wednesday. The Tuesday before New Line in conjunction with TORN's awesome assistance in getting the word out etc. had "trilogy tuesday" where at certain cinemas they showed the FOTR (EE Edition) followed by the EE of TT, followed by the opening of ROTK. But it wasn't just the movies. New Line and Sideshow had stuff at the Line Parties to hand out, collectible stuff, there were activities at the cinemas etc. and they had a special "gift" at the end of ROTK for those that came. It was an awesome experience.

I am so glad I took my two kids out of school to do it. My son was then 10 and my daughter 15. I took them out of school to attend the entire thing and my husband and sister came later that day after work. People made all kinds of treats for it, dressed up, Lembas was passed around, there were dance contests, trivia contests and New Line was there at each cinema to pass stuff out. It was awesome.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


bungobaggins
Lorien


Jun 16 2013, 11:00pm

Post #58 of 76 (361 views)
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That does sound fun! [In reply to] Can't Post

I was 14 when ROTK was released (Oh man I feel like a little kid around here, lol.) and there's no way my parents would have let me go to that, even if it was happening in our area. The only reason my parents saw the LOTR films is because I had to drag them to the theater because I needed a ride. Tongue Now they haven't even seen AUJ, and I don't think they're particularly interested (it's odd, they're not the type of people who go to the cinema). Frown Oh well, I'm just hoping that one day I can share my love of these stories with children of my own.

"You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!" - Gandalf

Darth Bungo: "Gandalf the Gray never told you what happened to your father."
Bilbo Barrel-rider: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him."
Darth Bungo: "No, I am your father."


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 16 2013, 11:06pm

Post #59 of 76 (364 views)
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It was great [In reply to] Can't Post

My Dad and I went. I had finished finals in college so I was in break but getting to see movies on a subject that means so much with my Dad was great. Would only have been better if my mom could have went. The little film frame collectibles they gave away were great! I have 10 of them now.



entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 16 2013, 11:13pm

Post #60 of 76 (346 views)
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I could not get tickets. [In reply to] Can't Post

The cinemas sold out instantly, even with online purchasing, so not everyone got to go. I didn't let that stop me - I worked at the Line Party at my theater so I could feel part of the action. I'll never forget looking at the box office signs showing all twelve theaters at that location showing "SOLD OUT". I think nearly every midnight showing in my city was sold out.

Not only were there give-aways from New Line and Sideshow, but my theater had free food for the time between the movies, then only started selling food about an hour before ROTK. That day, I really felt like I was part of a community of fans. Good times.


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 16 2013, 11:27pm

Post #61 of 76 (340 views)
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Getting tickets [In reply to] Can't Post

was a mess. The AMC I went to had their ticket stuff lock up and couldn't even sell tickets until later in the day. When I got home I got lucky and was able to secure tickets. I wore my TORn LP shirt which I still have and wear.



Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 11:48pm

Post #62 of 76 (310 views)
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I still have [In reply to] Can't Post

My "don't make me get my ring" shirt. I LOVE that shirt! Trilogy Teusday was a blast and yes the film frame collectibles they gave out at the end were fun. They are a part of history now too that film is all digital. It was fun to get actual frames of the film in a keepsake holder. Too great.

We had an art contest at our cinema and all the kids got to draw LOTR art and put it all over the outdoor mall where the cinema is. It was loads of fun. My 10 year old son at the time drew Treebeard and all kinds of drawings and put them up all over. It was the best. That was the serendipity days of LOTR for sure. I loved it. And I'm glad I took my kids out of school. They still talk about it even though they are 20 and 25 now. They remember when I took them out of school to see Trilogy Tuesday. My crowning moment as a mom. LOL!

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 16 2013, 11:55pm

Post #63 of 76 (338 views)
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Sounds like [In reply to] Can't Post

you had a great day. It's one I know they will take with them forever just based on how I feel. I remember it being so very cold outside while we waited in line but we had plenty of great conversations with people. Just a great great day. Cool



Brethil
Half-elven


Jun 17 2013, 12:20am

Post #64 of 76 (304 views)
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10 of them! Wow! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
My Dad and I went. I had finished finals in college so I was in break but getting to see movies on a subject that means so much with my Dad was great. Would only have been better if my mom could have went. The little film frame collectibles they gave away were great! I have 10 of them now.




I'm very impressed Elessar! I love my film cell frame ... Glad you have such a great memory of it too!

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 17 2013, 12:36am

Post #65 of 76 (299 views)
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Im so glad [In reply to] Can't Post

Elessar that you had a great and wonderful day. It was magical for sure. it's super awesome that you have that memory and it's just great that you have that for the rest of your life!

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 17 2013, 1:43am

Post #66 of 76 (309 views)
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I'm a little crazy like that lol [In reply to] Can't Post

I just love them so I relate to that 100%. Having little clips of the movies are so cool. I have 2 of these really nice film frame deals and 2 for The Hobbit from a placed called Trend Setters LTD. So I'm really into these kinds of things to go along with my other items from Sideshow, Weta, Gentle Giant, and The Bridge Direct. Thanks! It's one of the best days of my life.

I'll link to that site for anyone interested.

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey

The Lord of the Rings



Elessar
Valinor


Jun 17 2013, 1:46am

Post #67 of 76 (298 views)
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Thanks! :) [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you :) it sounds like you had a similar experience and that's the kind of thing that brings a smile to my face. Knowing others enjoyed that as much as I did. Cool



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 17 2013, 4:33am

Post #68 of 76 (337 views)
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To be fair, too much grit would have ruined everything that made The Hobbit The Hobbit. [In reply to] Can't Post

The places where they went gritty (Azog for one) are the places where they strayed furthest from the source, and which also fit the least and worked less well.

In Reply To
A lot of people around here are probably aware that I was let down by AUJ. I missed the realism of LOTR. The heart and soul that seemed to be engrained in every scene. The quiet moments of hope and despair. Characters that all had their moments to shine. Though the details may have been skewed a bit, I truly believe that the LOTR trilogy is one of the best adaptations of all time. It kept the emotion that most fantasy/action films lack. And most importantly, the spirit of the book. When I watch the films, I am filled with the same sense of history and depth as when I read the books.

However, it has recently occurred to me that The Hobbit will (at the least) come into it's own in DOS. I realized while watching the trailer, that I didn't feel anything familiar at all. This is both good and bad. Bad in that these films don't seem to be adhering to the things that made the LOTR trilogy so successful, good in that its own style seems to be established....

The style being...a trilogy of action filled, CGI coated, modern blockbusters.

While I am still at odds with this "style", I have found a silver lining... It's making LOTR look even better than ever.

Will "There and Back Again" return to the gritty, ancient atmosphere of LOTR? Will The Hobbit trilogy finally be understood once it is completed? Or will it go down as a failed attempt to push the envelope of technology?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 17 2013, 4:50am

Post #69 of 76 (286 views)
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I had roughly as many mixed feelings coming out of Fellowship as with An Unexpected. [In reply to] Can't Post

Things that made no sense in the broader scope, even if it made film/audince sense, like the only daughter of Elrond being sent out against The Nine when her mother had been abducted and abused by orcs. . . the dissapearance of Glorfindel. . . the loss of the Marzabul confrontation, no explanation of the connection between The Three, The Elves and The One. . . .

Rings had more High Beauty and Enchantment by far, but the Hobbit film, to me, had ample offerings of the more charming, bon vivant wonder. I enjoyed the first hour or so (minus the Moria errors) as much as the majority of the material from the Rings trilogy.

In Reply To
I feel the same.
I doubt I could ever accept what they have done to the Hobbit, its just sad. a wasted opportunity, all the raw materials were there, but WB or PJ or someone in charge ruined it, turned it into something banal and strangely empty. Its odd for me to watch Gandalf and feel nothing, its a weird thing not to care about the characters. Its almost like looking at a parody of itself, like someone has done a very clever and well made spoof. I do like bits of it and its certainly entertaining in parts, but as soon as I left the cinema I forgot it, it didnt make me dream or think about it afterwards. I remember coming out of the cinema the night I first watched Fellowship and Return of the King. I was blown away, filled with awe and a million emotions, everything etched into my imagination forever, it was love at first sight. AUJ was like revisiting that old love but its never the same, I couldnt recapture the feelings


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 17 2013, 4:55am

Post #70 of 76 (303 views)
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Its funny you says this [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been having a discussion with someone on another board about how The Hobbit looking and feeling brighter (at least film 1) is how it should be. That the only part in The Lord of the Rings that feels this way is the short time in Hobbiton during The Fellowship of the Ring.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 17 2013, 5:03am

Post #71 of 76 (288 views)
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Exactly. And I love that part of Fellowship, all the more when placed in juxtaposition with the darkness which follows. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think, missteps aside (and all of the current films as well as the trailer for the upcoming film have definite flaws and failings), when viewed all together it will be a magnificent experience.

In Reply To
I've been having a discussion with someone on another board about how The Hobbit looking and feeling brighter (at least film 1) is how it should be. That the only part in The Lord of the Rings that feels this way is the short time in Hobbiton during The Fellowship of the Ring.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 17 2013, 5:12am

Post #72 of 76 (299 views)
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Its magic [In reply to] Can't Post

when you view The Fellowship and how it goes darker and gets serious. I love it. Cool I agree that there are flaws in what we've seen in all the films but the awesomeness each has outweighs the issues. I can't wait to spend a week in 2015 watching all six films over the course of a week. Cool



sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Jun 17 2013, 3:42pm

Post #73 of 76 (215 views)
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It seems to me [In reply to] Can't Post

that PJ failed to get the tone right with AUJ (and, by the looks of it so far, DoS). Of course LotR and TH are very different books, both in tone and style. With LotR, he captured it's particular tone perfectly-- it's sense of ancient history and gritty realism. With TH, he took its more delicate, fanciful, lighthearted, adventurous tone and tried too hard to make it funny and exciting, and turned it into a childish (not child-like), gross, bombastic amusement park ride filled with overcooked cgi action. In the end, it just didn't have much personality or sense of wonder, despite the efforts of it's brilliant cast. There's a lot of subtlety to TH, and PJ completely missed it. It definitely has it's moments (the perfectly executed Riddles in the Dark, most of Bag End and Rivendell, the flight of the eagles), and for the most part i do enjoy it. It just misses the mark when it comes to the greatness of the LotR trilogy. Still holding out hope for DoS (though that has somewhat diminished) and TaBA, though.


namarie
Rohan


Jun 17 2013, 7:25pm

Post #74 of 76 (195 views)
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At this point LOTR is better than AUJ for me too [In reply to] Can't Post

Even though AUJ is visually stunning and I love a big part of it until now it didn't manage to wake up in me the same emotions or feelings that LOTR does.

Last year around Christmas I was watching ROTK on TV and even after so many years and even though I know LOTR by heart it's still moves me and it's still my favorite movie. And I don't love it in bits and pieces but I love it from the beginning till the end.

And I was thinking that I saw AUJ 3 times already in the cinema but it failed to make me feel the same.

I am curious what will be my reaction after I will see DOS this year. The trailer looks promising :)

And speaking of spoilers I hope this year I will be able to stay away from all the Tv spots and extra trailers so I can go in the cinema without too much hype or expectations :)


"The world is not in your books and maps. It's out there!"

"Such is the nature of evil. In time all foul things come forth."


elostirion74
Rohan

Jun 17 2013, 10:44pm

Post #75 of 76 (171 views)
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well [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with you that its advisable to accept that The Hobbit trilogy will be very different from the LoTR films. The main things to consider IMO are these:

1. While LoTR is an exercise in narrowing the scope of the story down ito a focused, coherent and manageable storyline, the Hobbit trilogy will show a storyline which is deliberately made more complicated and involving plots that will have to be artificially merged This means that at least the two first Hobbit films will involve exposition that will slow down and potentially distract the pacing and focus of the films.

2. While the Hobbit trilogy probably will be darker/more serious as it progresses, it will probably include more typical elements from action/adventure films than the LoTR films.

The overall effect will probably be that the Hobbit films feel more uneven, varying more between overblown action and genuinely heartfelt and beautiful moments.

The most uncertain factor is probably "There and back again". I dont expect it to return to the atmosphere of LoTR, but I expect it to feel different from the AUJ and DOS, since it has fewer obstacles to contend, being done with all the exposition and the set up and free to concentrate on just the story.

Im a little surprised, though, that you and others expected the Hobbit films to be so similar to LoTR, knowing both the difference in the source material and the added difference in the approach theyve chosen for the adaptation. The complication of the plots for the Hobbit films have been advertised far ahead of the release of the films.

I also think the style of AUJ and of DoS as seen in the teaser-trailer is considerably more complex than what you describe. Still the discrepancy between the tone of the different parts of these films can end up becoming their biggest problem. Well just have to wait and see..

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