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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Accepting what The Hobbit trilogy has become...
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Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 4:02pm

Post #26 of 76 (476 views)
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True enough [In reply to] Can't Post

I just wish the old New Line was marketing this instead of WB. New Line and Ordesky I think understood marketing better. They were more involved with the fans whereas WB seems more hands off. I'm not sure what it is exactly and I can't exactly quantify it. It seems like LOTR had a better comprehensive and continuous marketing whereas WB seems to have these long draughts. Maybe it's just my own perception which is entirely possible...

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Thranduil05
The Shire


Jun 16 2013, 4:06pm

Post #27 of 76 (478 views)
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Ordesky [In reply to] Can't Post

Also in the Special Features of LotR, Ordesky was interviewed quite a bit and seemed to be just more hands on in general with the making of the film. I'm surprised WB haven't announced a string of video games as well for TH, I'd have thought they'd want to milk the franchise for all it's worth!

Thranduil

Such is the nature of evil, in time, all foul things come forth.


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 4:25pm

Post #28 of 76 (433 views)
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Overall [In reply to] Can't Post

They're overall marketing has been lackluster. Even the marketing of the Weta items has been sparse. Sideshow did a much better job and had more stuff than what Weta and WB have marketed for this film. Also, Ordesky was all over a direct dialogue with the fans. The whole film frame collectible thing they did for Trilogy Teusday (and Trilogy Teusday itself) was a huge marketing gig for ROTK. Although we are only at the second film and are not yet there it really feels like WB isn't interested in too much fan interaction other than "come see the movies". Granted the ydid do the lego stuff, which was fun for the kids, but I dunno what it is. I remember with FOTR there was much more buzz both before and after the movies, the stuff was selling like hotcakes on EBAY and elsewhere and the TORN was used as a pretty much direct marketing channel to the fans. Although that is there this time it really seems like TORN is doing the heavy lifting and WB is just sitting in the background.

As I said maybe I'm wrong. I just have really questioned the whole marketing model.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 4:42pm

Post #29 of 76 (443 views)
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Agreed, the DoS teaser was quite dysfunctional, IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

Focus on supporting characters with nary a word from the two leads, and obvious digital doubles in the first teaser? Ugh. The first AUJ teaser was fantastic, the others...not so much.

Also agreed the LotR trailers/ads were IMO little masterpieces unto themselves to match the films.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 16 2013, 4:50pm

Post #30 of 76 (393 views)
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I love both as well. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Lord of the Rings is something so very special and three favorite films of all time. What Jackson did with them is something amazing and everything I love about the books is there on screen. That being said I loved AUJ. It has a few issues which I've talked about before but I think it's a pretty darn good film. Like you it had me smiling from start to finish. I felt it was every bit as good at being The Hobbit as The Lord of the Rings is at being itself. The additions to the film I also really enjoyed. So I walked away feeling the love and feel from AUJ that I do from the book. I also like Thorin in the movie more than his book counterpart and that's going to make more of a impact when he dies.

I think DoS is going to be great fun and another winner for films based on Middle-earth. I loved what we saw in the trailer for the most part and it looks to continue the feel of The Hobbit book. All in all I love that each series feels like their book counterparts but connected at the same time. Same way the books are.

In the end I love what we're getting and it makes for a great experience.



(This post was edited by Elessar on Jun 16 2013, 4:55pm)


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 16 2013, 4:51pm

Post #31 of 76 (402 views)
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Introductions [In reply to] Can't Post

It was fairly obvious that the first teaser was about introducing the characters new to the second film (Legolas, Tauriel, Beorn, etc). It did its job.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jun 16 2013, 4:57pm)


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 4:52pm

Post #32 of 76 (387 views)
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Agreed on all points... [In reply to] Can't Post

In any event, after my initial reaction to the DoS teaser, I've gone back to waiting for DoS and TABA more as curiosities as a Tolkien fan/fan of PJ's LotR, and out of a sense of duty, rather than an expectation of actual enjoyment on the level of LotR. I suppose it'll have to be enough to derive what I can from a return to ME in SOME form, even if it is, as you say, as a CGI-laden blockbuster. I suppose some disappointing ME is better than no ME at all.

I was hoping DoS would return more to the realm of LotR (especially as we're now dealing with Elves and Men again), but the teaser certainly seems to be moving further away from it - guess it's up to TABA now. Even so,it would be nice if there are things to appreciate, even through the heavy layer of CGI and the action-movie conventions, ETC.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 4:55pm

Post #33 of 76 (406 views)
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Yet the TTT teaser wasn't just Theoden/Eowyn/Eomer [In reply to] Can't Post

with a bit of Faramir, a bit of Gandalf, and fleeting cameos from the rest of the Fellowship.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


jtarkey
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 5:42pm

Post #34 of 76 (387 views)
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Yes,there were a few moments sprinkled throughout the film [In reply to] Can't Post

However, they were too few and far between. The quiet moments seemed like they were just trying to offer a break from the action, instead of driving the story in the way that LOTR did.

It seems like LOTR wasn't trying to be an action, or a fantasy film (if that makes sense). The action was pretty much just an added bonus to the excellent story and characters. In The Hobbit, it seems like the story doesn't flow from the heart in the same way.

I've used this example before, but I feel it's very fitting. Remember the scene between Aragorn and Boromir in Lorien? Not only does it give us a very touching. and complicated moment between two characters, it also delivers a lot of important information about Minas Tirith and Denethor. There wasn't so much straight forward exposition as what filled The Hobbit. It seemed like scenes were either; an action scene, a heartfelt scene, or just exposoition.

It was very choppy.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


kbdiggity
Rivendell

Jun 16 2013, 6:29pm

Post #35 of 76 (349 views)
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.... [In reply to] Can't Post

honestly, there was just as much moaning on these boards a decade ago during the theatrical release of the LoTR films.

"I hate how they portrayed Frodo"

"What is this Arwen warrior princess crap"

'Too much Legolas shield surfing"

"Denethor is terrible"

"They wasted Faramir's character"

blah, blah, blah....


It is terribly ironic that so many people on here are either unaware of that fact, or they have chosen to forget it.


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jun 16 2013, 6:52pm)


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 6:32pm

Post #36 of 76 (361 views)
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I can't speak for others... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but I was in love with every single frame of LotR from day one. So I've not forgotten anything. I have genuine issues with the route PJ has taken with The Hobbit.

Criticism aside, I really do enjoy AUJ and expect to get more on board with these films after DOS is released. Tempered expectations will do wonders I imagine.

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jun 16 2013, 6:35pm)


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 16 2013, 6:36pm

Post #37 of 76 (341 views)
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Well to be fair the Faramir stuff still seems to come up all the time anyway [In reply to] Can't Post

And I've only been a member for two years. I didn't necessarily hate Frodo's portrayal, but Wood did get a tad annoying...

Anyway I guess it boils down to The Hobbit having a much bigger potential audience this time around-so there will be more complainers. I (and all my friends) was totally unaware of LOTR until PJ's films, and ignorant of many of the discussions/arguments...this time round though, I'm often the guy starting them...how times change.

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 16 2013, 7:03pm

Post #38 of 76 (356 views)
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I get the feeling [In reply to] Can't Post

that those in charge of directing WB's marketing don't understand how to work with fandom as well as those who were in charge of NewLine were. Remember WB's big blue a few years back when it announced that 'something big' would be announced soon about Middle-earth? Anyone worth their salt would have known that the one thing fans were talking about the most was when The Hobbit would get its very much delayed green-light, and the anticipation on TORN's discussion boards went into overdrive - only to be burst when the announcement was about the LOTR Blu-ray. The first announcement was clueless and tone-deaf to the fans' priority at the time, and the stuff-up knocked WB's credibility.

I give them enormous credit for getting these films off the ground, but they've got to get their marketing sorted.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 16 2013, 7:03pm

Post #39 of 76 (320 views)
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Amnesia [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It is terribly ironic that so many people on here are either unaware of that fact, or they have chosen to forget it.


Your post will be forgotten and the same amnesia folks have about The Lord of the Rings will allow them to forgive and forget about The Hobbit. This would be good for you in retrospect, but only if you remember your own complaint. Wink


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jun 16 2013, 7:06pm)


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 7:10pm

Post #40 of 76 (319 views)
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I love both [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they appropriately have captured the difference in feel between the two stories. I don't have a problem with any of the cgi so I guess I really liked it all. I was very uncomfortable about Azog the very first time I saw it but now i accept him and don't get bothered too much. BluRay really changed my views on the cgi. I think the next two will amp up the emotion and danger in a BIG way.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 7:14pm

Post #41 of 76 (347 views)
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I had issues with Faramir and Denethor, but loved LotR overall... [In reply to] Can't Post

To me, Fellowship is a perfect movie, and TTT and RotK are near-perfect....meanwhile, TH is horribly disappointing.

Different films, different reactions. Seems pretty understandable to me.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 7:41pm

Post #42 of 76 (345 views)
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I'll never accept this [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll just acknowledge its existence and that I can't help it. It's a matter of taste, perhaps, but to me the Hobbit films simply look cheaper, less lyrical, less artistic and less inspired films which lack individual spirit. Or in short, they're worse cinema. But that's my opinion.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Off to an adventure in Republika e Shqipėrisė. Will be back 16.6.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 16 2013, 8:07pm

Post #43 of 76 (306 views)
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Faramir [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen the complaints about "what they did to Faramir." But I liked Faramir in the movie. He is closer to my own sensibilities than most other characters in the story. I thought he was well portrayed.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jun 16 2013, 8:08pm)


Marionette
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 8:37pm

Post #44 of 76 (315 views)
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LOTR and The Hobbit are the same [In reply to] Can't Post

People praising LOTR trilogy and bashing The Hobbit is absurd. The work as adaptation and the work in both movies is the same.

Personally The Hobbit is better than LOTR to me, I was dissapointed with LOTR because the books are way more difficult to adapt than The Hobbit. They so rich than the movies look poor (The book is better).

It doesn“t happen with The Hobbit.

I guess that“s because the Hobbit book is wide open to interpretations and addings and LOTR not, the movie changed and omited way too much and that was dissapointing
I don“t feel The Hobbit is a let down at all Smile

If not, it“s just exactly the same than LOTR movies.


"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"
Queen



Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 9:19pm

Post #45 of 76 (266 views)
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Agree Ataahua [In reply to] Can't Post

They don't "get" the fandom at all. You can just tell the difference it's palpable. They just don't seem engaged and with a franchise and fandom that kind of engagement is important. The films will do well regardless, but it does take some of the fun out of it. Their marketing does need to get sorted and quickly IMO. They are darned lucky that PJ is as good as he is with fans, the fandom and this openness with the community or it would be even worse.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 9:24pm

Post #46 of 76 (281 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, Yes there were. I remember those. I was a member then but left for awhile then the new boards came about and I had to re register because i forgot my log in information but I do remember.

1) Sacrilege! Arwen wasn't in LOTR and there was no romance and she shouldn't be in the film!
2) How dare Arwen take Glorfindel's place at the Ford of Bruinen PJ is going for the cheesy sex aspect!
3) No bombadil? What??? This film is an abomination!
4) It's all flashy battle sequences and non substance. It's all Viggo Viggo waving his sword around and Frodo only walks around looking spaced out!
5) Tiki Torch Denethor! Outrage! That never should have happened!
6) Faramir's character was wasted!
7) Gandalf's character is too domineering he was never that way in the books!

I remember all of those comments all too well.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Magpie
Immortal


Jun 16 2013, 9:33pm

Post #47 of 76 (322 views)
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One massive difference from then to now [In reply to] Can't Post

At the beginning of filming for LOTR, one of the executives for NewLine, actually talked to fans!

Michael De Luca, President and Chief Operating Officer of New Line Productions (at time of LOTR). Xoanon called him emailiac as he seemed to be comfortable with and prolific in chatting up fans by email, often divulging information about the LOTR movies to them.

haha... don't see that now, do we?


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 9:45pm

Post #48 of 76 (283 views)
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Not just your opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

"the Hobbit films simply look cheaper, less lyrical, less artistic and less inspired films which lack individual spirit. Or in short, they're worse cinema "

I couldnt have stated it better myself.

Cheap is a good word to describe them. Ironic, since they are costing those 500 million dollars to make.

Vous commencez ą m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 9:46pm

Post #49 of 76 (271 views)
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Yep [In reply to] Can't Post

That's exactly right Magpie. They actually reached out to the fans and involved them. It felt like a family experience. YOu don't get that feeling here. The studio is distant and removed. Any takers on whether we get another "trilogy tuesday" type event? I'm guessing not. I don't see us getting that at all this time around.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Brethil
Half-elven


Jun 16 2013, 9:48pm

Post #50 of 76 (278 views)
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Been hoping since the beginning [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That's exactly right Magpie. They actually reached out to the fans and involved them. It felt like a family experience. YOu don't get that feeling here. The studio is distant and removed. Any takers on whether we get another "trilogy tuesday" type event? I'm guessing not. I don't see us getting that at all this time around.




for another Trilogy-style opening. Loved the first one so much. I don't know if they will go for it, but I for one would be in line.

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."

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