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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Accepting what The Hobbit trilogy has become...

jtarkey
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 10:35am

Post #1 of 76 (2557 views)
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Accepting what The Hobbit trilogy has become... Can't Post

A lot of people around here are probably aware that I was let down by AUJ. I missed the realism of LOTR. The heart and soul that seemed to be engrained in every scene. The quiet moments of hope and despair. Characters that all had their moments to shine. Though the details may have been skewed a bit, I truly believe that the LOTR trilogy is one of the best adaptations of all time. It kept the emotion that most fantasy/action films lack. And most importantly, the spirit of the book. When I watch the films, I am filled with the same sense of history and depth as when I read the books.

However, it has recently occurred to me that The Hobbit will (at the least) come into it's own in DOS. I realized while watching the trailer, that I didn't feel anything familiar at all. This is both good and bad. Bad in that these films don't seem to be adhering to the things that made the LOTR trilogy so successful, good in that its own style seems to be established....

The style being...a trilogy of action filled, CGI coated, modern blockbusters.

While I am still at odds with this "style", I have found a silver lining... It's making LOTR look even better than ever.

Will "There and Back Again" return to the gritty, ancient atmosphere of LOTR? Will The Hobbit trilogy finally be understood once it is completed? Or will it go down as a failed attempt to push the envelope of technology?

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 11:09am

Post #2 of 76 (1408 views)
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The Double-Edged Sword of Gritty Realism [In reply to] Can't Post

There's no doubt that Peter Jackson's LOTR trilogy had a more gritty, realistic tone than "The Hobbit". The relevant question is, does the lighter, more fantastical tone of the Hobbit movies make sense for the current trilogy? Over on the Off Topic forum I've had a bit of tongue-in-cheek fun with the "Man of Steel", but I was serious in that it I felt it was a huge letdown. Many fans are shocked by its critical reception (down to about 56% on RT). The critics have pointed out that David Goyer's screenplay tries too hard to emulate his Dark Knight tone of gritty realism, when it isn't appropriate for a character like Superman.

I first read "The Hobbit" many years ago when close friends were into "The Lord of the Rings", and I remember our discussion agreement that "The Hobbit is different, a lot more fairytale-ish". In making the film, I think that Jackson & Co. were in sort of a no-win situation for the first film: they absolutely had to keep certain iconic scenes, and those scenes demanded the fairy-tale tone of the book, as they would have been ruined by a gritty, realistic approach. Where LOTR is mostly about Men but includes hobbits, elves, and a dwarf in important roles, "The Hobbit" is exactly the opposite, with almost all the main characters being Dwarves, Elves, Trolls, Orcs, a Shapechanger, Wizards, and a Hobbit-- all beings out of fantasy.

Since most of the fairytale scenes are now past, I agree that DOS can begin to interweave the more realistic tone, so that the trilogy will become an appropriate prelude to LOTR.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.







jtarkey
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 11:14am

Post #3 of 76 (1272 views)
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My Hang up is... [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not just the gritty realism I miss from LOTR. It's the heart and emotion. The same heart could have been applied to AUJ by making it a more personal story that clearly focused on Bilbo, while keeping the light fantasy elements in tact.

Also, they just can't seem to get a Superman film right can they?

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


CathrineB
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 11:28am

Post #4 of 76 (1149 views)
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I think I already have [In reply to] Can't Post

I think I have accepted it already. Not sure when, maybe when first seeing it? The second time? Now? I mean, I still find myself watching LotR and go "Damn. These movies still look damn good today. Even better than the Hobbit" which is supposed to be all new tech and 3D. I've never really liked 3D since it started being cool. I don't like that everything has to be new and fancy and polished.
Like I always say: A good movie does not need 3D glasses to pull you in. It does't need to be polish and perfect..

Yet. I watched The Hobbit last night again and I enjoyed it even more now. I hated it in 3D, loved it in 2D and now I'm actually very fond of it. It has grown on me. I sure care a lot about the characters even if there are things I miss so much that the LotR has.

I think to me what saved this movie despite the letdowns were the acting. I think it's all in all very good casting in this.

So I have accepted the Hobbit for what they are. Sure I wont like all of it. That's for sure. But I know I have an easier time accepting books for being books and movies a whole'nother media. I enjoy both of them.

I just prefer to talk about what I like in the movies. I understand much of people's disappointments, but personally I prefer to talk about what I like. Focus on the positive and just sometimes talk about and read about what isn't so good. Works for me.


(This post was edited by CathrineB on Jun 16 2013, 11:29am)


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 12:38pm

Post #5 of 76 (1176 views)
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I'd like your opinion on this aspect of the heart and emotion [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought that AUJ did have a number of such potential moments of heart and emotion, mostly focusing on Bilbo, BUT...most of them were spoiled by Warner Brothers' relentless PR machine, with their endless sneak peeks and multiple-ending trailer. The first trailer was just about perfect-- it whet your appetite for the movie, had beautiful elements such as the dwarf song, but didn't give too much away. The second trailer and all the rest smelled of WB and their worries about the bottom line. So it would be interesting to compare the first-impression feelings for these scenes:

Gandalf presents the sword Sting to Bilbo; speech about when to take a life Spoiled


Rivendell White Council, Gandalf's answer to Galadriel's "Why the Halfling?" Spoiled


Very end of above scene, Galadriel's emotional "I will come." Not Spoiled


Bofur's emotional "Good Luck" speech to Bilbo Not Spoiled


Bilbo spares Gollum's life Not Spoiled (?)*


Bilbo's speech to the whole company, about why he came back Spoiled


*Can't remember exactly


I'd like to hear what you and others think.



Don't mess with my favorite female elf.







ShireHorse
Rohan

Jun 16 2013, 12:41pm

Post #6 of 76 (1050 views)
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But, surely, it all boils down to [In reply to] Can't Post

the source material? LotR (book and film) still makes me cry in places and I am very moved by so many things. It's in the nature of the story and the way that it is being told. The Hobbit makes me laugh. You should be in a class of children giggling away at the troll scene, for instance. It's definitely not scary. And even the spiders are funny: in contrast, when I got to Shelob's Lair in the book, I have never been so frightened in all my life. (Having a phobia about spiders doesn't help, but I wasn't concerned in the same way when I read TH.)

I never found Bilbo a moving figure - his escapades are just told with too much humour and he is just too sensible and pragmatic a character. He's "one of us" and is interesting because of it - no more. But I was never fearful of his safety and was confident he would get home in one piece.

The last "movement" of the book takes on a realistic, more tragic tone and is all the more shocking because of it. The story turns more towards what we will find in LotR and I'm sure that Jackson will follow this arc and that this will enable us to move seamlessly from TABA to FotR. I'm really looking forward to watching all 6 films in a row so that I can see how PJ ties the whole lot together.

As a last thought: when my son-in-law watched LotR without knowing what would happen, he loved the way that the films opened up gradually into the world of Middle-earth, starting off with a fairy-tale setting in Hobbiton but becoming more grand, more epic, more tragic (dare I say more blockbusterish?) as the 3 films progressed. I really don't want TH to be gritty, tragic and epic too soon because, seen as a prelude to LotR, it needs to start off on a smaller scale so that we can move ever onwards and upwards as we progress through the whole story. It's really important that TH isn't "better" than LotR - or even the same - because this will do a disservice to the whole experience.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 16 2013, 1:05pm

Post #7 of 76 (1018 views)
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I agree with you totally about LOTR [In reply to] Can't Post

I feel the same.
I doubt I could ever accept what they have done to the Hobbit, its just sad. a wasted opportunity, all the raw materials were there, but WB or PJ or someone in charge ruined it, turned it into something banal and strangely empty. Its odd for me to watch Gandalf and feel nothing, its a weird thing not to care about the characters. Its almost like looking at a parody of itself, like someone has done a very clever and well made spoof. I do like bits of it and its certainly entertaining in parts, but as soon as I left the cinema I forgot it, it didnt make me dream or think about it afterwards. I remember coming out of the cinema the night I first watched Fellowship and Return of the King. I was blown away, filled with awe and a million emotions, everything etched into my imagination forever, it was love at first sight. AUJ was like revisiting that old love but its never the same, I couldnt recapture the feelings


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 1:50pm

Post #8 of 76 (975 views)
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I have thorougly enjoyed both [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess for me I didn't reallyl try and compare it at all to LOTR. I just viewed it as The Hobbit. For me both The Hobbit and LOTR are very different in feel even as books. I don't see the darkness in The Hobbit as with the LOTR and never felt that way. I completely enjoyed the atmosphere in AUJ and found myself smiling at scenes like Chip the Cups and Crack the Plates. I liked that PJ has made Thorin a much more involved and in my view deeper character than he was in The Hobbit and I am completely enjoying Freeman's Bilbo who for me is spot on as is the writing for his part.

I get that there are those, like yourself, that are disappointed with AUJ. I'm sorry you can't enjoy it the way you would like.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 1:56pm

Post #9 of 76 (965 views)
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It's making LOTR look even better than ever [In reply to] Can't Post

I have been experiencing a growing affection and respect for the real trilogy.

Youre absolutely right, looking at stills, photographs, scenes, screecaps, i have indeed grown very fond of many things that perhaps i wasnt quite so aware of before or at least not nearly as appreciative as before.

Vous commencez ą m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 1:59pm

Post #10 of 76 (978 views)
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but as soon as I left the cinema I forgot it [In reply to] Can't Post

Indeed, i find AUJ, completely forgetable....

Even if i appreciate the first 45 minutes..

Vous commencez ą m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 2:08pm

Post #11 of 76 (1006 views)
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It's taken a while, but it's set in... [In reply to] Can't Post

Watching AUJ for the first time was heartbreaking. I think it's because so many of the story elements and locales are similar to 'Fellowship', so it was only natural that I was comparing it to that film. But PJ was going for something entirely different with these films. In addition to the CGI, etc., the tone of the story is just so jarringly different. If LotR felt like a great, majestic epic of old, his Hobbit film(s) feels like a lightweight, modern action/adventure film. The difference is startling, and I don't necessarily agree with others that it can be completely laid at the feet of the source material. The story may be more juvenile than LotR, but the filmmaking didn't need to be.

That said, seeing the trailer for 'The Desolation of Smaug' finally opened my eyes a bit about what this trilogy is, rather than clinging on to what I'd hoped it would be. The visual style and tone of the DOS trailer has put me more at peace with the difference in those elements in AUJ vs. the original trilogy. It's helped me accept the new trilogy for what it is, and enjoy what it has to offer. Also, one of my big beefs about AUJ (other than the aforementioned visual style and tone) was that it felt incomplete. The late editing of the films into 3 parts damaged the narrative of the first film, IMO. There were so many things set up (Thranduil, the Mirkwood Spiders, etc.) that were never paid off during the course of the film. Having now seen where the film goes post-Carrock has increased my enjoyment of AUJ, because I can now extend the narrative of the film in my head past the first measly six chapters of the book.

But honestly, the whole thing just goes to show what a remarkable occurrence the making of The Lord of the Rings films was. The experience of seeing those films when they came out was magical, and I knew that I was witnessing something extraordinary. They became, and still are, the standard against which I judge all other films.

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jun 16 2013, 2:11pm)


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 2:20pm

Post #12 of 76 (1121 views)
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WB's marketing team is atrocious. [In reply to] Can't Post

The trailers, tv spots, etc. for 'An Unexpected Journey' were abysmal compared to what was done for 'The Lord of the Rings' (which has the best trailers I've ever seen, even to this day). Their Hobbit trailers suffer from the same flaw as their Harry Potter trailers. They just throw together a bunch of dialogue and action scenes, without any coherence. Compare that to the trailers New Line did for LotR, where each one was practically a work of art in of itself. Likewise, the tv spots were insanely spoilerific. The later LotR tv spots often spoiled some stunning visual moments, but never crucial character moments. I will never forgive WB for spoiling Bilbo's "You don't have a home, it was taken from you" moment and the Bilbo-Thorin hug. I'm going to do my best to avoid all tv spots this time around.

The only high quality trailer for the trilogy thus far was the first teaser for An Unexpected Journey, which I suspect may have been done with more of PJ's input (considering it's edited more like the LotR trailers, has Shore's music, etc.).

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jun 16 2013, 2:24pm)


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 2:28pm

Post #13 of 76 (1016 views)
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Completely agree [In reply to] Can't Post

You simply cannot spoil the emotional climax of a movie (in this case Bibo's "You don't have a home" speech and embracing Thorin). They (WB) did it anyway.


Note that this DOS trailer definitely had a more Jackson feel: beautiful images, some promising snippets of dialog, but nothing crucial given away.

Don't mess with my favorite female elf.







Thranduil05
The Shire


Jun 16 2013, 2:32pm

Post #14 of 76 (950 views)
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My opinion... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I first read "The Hobbit" many years ago when close friends were into "The Lord of the Rings", and I remember our discussion agreement that "The Hobbit is different, a lot more fairytale-ish". In making the film, I think that Jackson & Co. were in sort of a no-win situation for the first film: they absolutely had to keep certain iconic scenes, and those scenes demanded the fairy-tale tone of the book, as they would have been ruined by a gritty, realistic approach. Where LOTR is mostly about Men but includes hobbits, elves, and a dwarf in important roles, "The Hobbit" is exactly the opposite, with almost all the main characters being Dwarves, Elves, Trolls, Orcs, a Shapechanger, Wizards, and a Hobbit-- all beings out of fantasy.


I'm in agreement with you about the difference in style and nature between TH and LotR. Tolkien always said that TH was written for his children, hence the elves, dwarves and fairytale creatures. When he came to LotR, his audience had grown up. He wouldn't be reading it to his children at bed time, consequently he was able to write in more of an adult nature. This is evident through his focus more on the race of men and the real-life struggles of war.

PJ and crew would always have more of a difficulty creating the films in reverse, but I think as long as you're appreciative of that, you should enjoy TH movies either way Smile

I also agree that DoS is where the movies will really develop and make their mark. I'd still like for TH trilogy to go down in history as one of the greatest trilogies of all time, like LotR!

Thranduil

Such is the nature of evil, in time, all foul things come forth.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 16 2013, 2:33pm

Post #15 of 76 (914 views)
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yes LOTR was remarkable [In reply to] Can't Post

and I dont suppose I will ever see anything nearly as wonderful.

It bugs me that they set up Thranduil so early on in AUJ, it seemed a bit pointless. why cant he be a surprise in DOS, why does he have to be spoon fed to us like our little brains cant cope with characters that pop up out of nowhere. I only needed to catch sight of Thranduil for the first time in his palace, then it makes more impact because you havent actually seen him before and its suddenly pam! Thanders in all his glory.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Jun 16 2013, 2:34pm)


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 2:36pm

Post #16 of 76 (969 views)
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I will agree [In reply to] Can't Post

I have not been thrilled with WB's marketing of the film at all.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 2:38pm

Post #17 of 76 (1013 views)
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It was better, but... [In reply to] Can't Post

...still without any coherence. There's just random lines thrown in with little or no meaning. That can work, if you're going for an atmospheric trailer, giving nothing away (look at the first Prometheus Teaser). But the whole thing just feels too cluttered and without purpose.

The Lord of the Rings trailers were magnificent at telling a story, while at the same time not spoiling the twists and turns of the films (with the exception of the Gandalf reveal for TTT trailers - but you couldn't really hide Ian McKellen's film credit Tongue). They were a master-craft of film promotion.

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jun 16 2013, 2:40pm)


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 2:41pm

Post #18 of 76 (913 views)
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agree about the spoliers [In reply to] Can't Post

It had no point to be so spoileriffic. Regarding the CGI thing I am dissapointed that in the mirkwood fight secuences between elves and orcs and barrels, the trees even where CGI,what a lazyness, I was seeing neverending story 3,just for curiosity, and there wasa shoot where the background wasreal images of a forest, well, that worked freaking out better than CGI trees.

In KK there where, but a lot of them were miniatures, and the fact Jackson went CGI witheverything just because in Avatar worked, doesn“t have sense, because they were in Pandora, a totally invented place where that loks were allowed by the imaginarium ofthe place.

But I think CGI trailer is not the definitive one, remember Rivendel in AUJ“S teaser? it was over the top with colourand lightning, in the movie there wasn“t such of that

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


Thranduil05
The Shire


Jun 16 2013, 2:41pm

Post #19 of 76 (974 views)
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WB [In reply to] Can't Post

The only thing we can thank WB for is actually financing the film! We wouldn't be here if it had been left with MGM!

Thranduil

Such is the nature of evil, in time, all foul things come forth.


Thranduil05
The Shire


Jun 16 2013, 2:45pm

Post #20 of 76 (921 views)
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On the plus side... [In reply to] Can't Post

At least it was only a visual of Thranduil. I'd have been more annoyed if we'd heard him talk. I wouldn't have put it past them to try and work some dialogue in to that scene!

It made it all the more exciting when we heard his voice over the first few images in the DoS trailer!

Thranduil

Such is the nature of evil, in time, all foul things come forth.


IdrilofGondolin
Rohan

Jun 16 2013, 3:14pm

Post #21 of 76 (935 views)
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A Dissenting Voice [In reply to] Can't Post

I have grown less fond of LOTR as then years have gone by and more fond of AUJ the more I watch it. And that is probably because I am more invested in book LOTR than I am in book TH. I have owned the EE version of LOTR since they came out and can count on the fingers of one and a half hands how many times I've watched them. They are beautifully made and gorgeous to look at and do have heart -- some of which comes from what we know of the making of the films. The lore that has grown up around movie LOTR is one of the things that helps people love and feel close to them. (We don't have that yet with TH.)

Having said that, for me, the changes PJ made to the characters and their motivations and the addition of, for example the elves at Helm's Deep, make these movies less watchable. I don't want to have to keep my finger on the remote so I can skip over the rangers assaulting Gollum and Faramir assaulting Gollum and Frodo rejecting Sam and various other unfortunate scenes. And I really didn't like the choice the writers made to make the ring an "addiction", making it so evil that even Faramir is tempted by it and then blabbing about it all over Middle Earth, when the book takes such pains to keep the ring and its location secret. There are other things, but I've gone on too long here.


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 3:26pm

Post #22 of 76 (878 views)
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I will say [In reply to] Can't Post

Although I still love LOTR in all of it's glory the one film I have become less and less fond of is ROTK. I love FOTR. I think it's terrific. TT is still very dear to me and I love it. I have grown to see though that ROTK has real pacing issues and it's all over the place. I still like it don't misunderstand, I just have grown somewhat less fond of it than I was when it was first released.

I love AUJ and have really enjoyed it. We'll see I suppose how it is in a few years once the 3 films are done and the dust settles.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 3:41pm

Post #23 of 76 (896 views)
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Opposite for me. [In reply to] Can't Post

I've actually come to appreciate RotK more and more as time has gone on (though I loved it from the beginning). I remember when they re-released the films in theaters a couple years ago through Fathom Events, I was shocked at how well the Extended Cut played on the big screen. Whereas I felt the length of the EE of TTT, RotK seemed to fly by - even at 4+ hours.

AUJ has more severe pacing problems IMO, at least in it's first half. It's an hour before we even get to the Roast Mutton section (Ch. 2 of the book), and that's a problem. I love the Frodo/Old Bilbo stuff, but it really should have been cut from the theatrical cut if PJ wanted to take time on stuff like the Moria flashback, Radagast, etc. The film takes so long to get going (though I think it will be less of a problem for me when the film is complete and we can watch the entire thing together).

As far as issues with the adaptation go, I'm not one to have a problem with changes. Film adaptations are retellings, not translations - so I've never gotten hung up on the differences (though I will admit, some timeline changes for The Hobbit bugged me initially). If I have issues with the film, it's purely on a filmmaking level, not on story changes.

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jun 16 2013, 3:50pm)


DwellerInDale
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 3:57pm

Post #24 of 76 (943 views)
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Strange, I felt the exact opposite [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
..still without any coherence. There's just random lines thrown in with little or no meaning. That can work, if you're going for an atmospheric trailer, giving nothing away (look at the first Prometheus Teaser). But the whole thing just feels too cluttered and without purpose.
________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

There are mainly two sets of dialog: Thranduil's and Tauriel's. Thranduil's opening lines say, in effect, "You think you are going on a heroic quest- to take back your homeland, to slay a dragon". But, as he says later, it is the nature of evil to come forth-- you can't fight it. So his solution is isolationism. This has worked for him for thousands of years. Then they contrast this with Tauriel, the younger low Sylvan elf, with her two connected lines, "When did we allow evil to become stronger than us?" and "It IS our fight". So the trailer essentially revealed the important story arc of Thranduil + Legolas = "don't get involved", Tauriel = "yes, we have a moral obligation to get involved".




Don't mess with my favorite female elf.







Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 4:00pm

Post #25 of 76 (927 views)
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I guess my beef was more with... [In reply to] Can't Post

...the randomly thrown in dialogue from Gandalf and Radagast. That had no context, whatsoever, and it bugged me. I did love the Thranduil/Tauriel stuff though. I'm not a purist by any means, so I can't wait to see Evangeline Lilly in this film. Smile

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 4:02pm

Post #26 of 76 (477 views)
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True enough [In reply to] Can't Post

I just wish the old New Line was marketing this instead of WB. New Line and Ordesky I think understood marketing better. They were more involved with the fans whereas WB seems more hands off. I'm not sure what it is exactly and I can't exactly quantify it. It seems like LOTR had a better comprehensive and continuous marketing whereas WB seems to have these long draughts. Maybe it's just my own perception which is entirely possible...

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Thranduil05
The Shire


Jun 16 2013, 4:06pm

Post #27 of 76 (479 views)
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Ordesky [In reply to] Can't Post

Also in the Special Features of LotR, Ordesky was interviewed quite a bit and seemed to be just more hands on in general with the making of the film. I'm surprised WB haven't announced a string of video games as well for TH, I'd have thought they'd want to milk the franchise for all it's worth!

Thranduil

Such is the nature of evil, in time, all foul things come forth.


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 4:25pm

Post #28 of 76 (434 views)
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Overall [In reply to] Can't Post

They're overall marketing has been lackluster. Even the marketing of the Weta items has been sparse. Sideshow did a much better job and had more stuff than what Weta and WB have marketed for this film. Also, Ordesky was all over a direct dialogue with the fans. The whole film frame collectible thing they did for Trilogy Teusday (and Trilogy Teusday itself) was a huge marketing gig for ROTK. Although we are only at the second film and are not yet there it really feels like WB isn't interested in too much fan interaction other than "come see the movies". Granted the ydid do the lego stuff, which was fun for the kids, but I dunno what it is. I remember with FOTR there was much more buzz both before and after the movies, the stuff was selling like hotcakes on EBAY and elsewhere and the TORN was used as a pretty much direct marketing channel to the fans. Although that is there this time it really seems like TORN is doing the heavy lifting and WB is just sitting in the background.

As I said maybe I'm wrong. I just have really questioned the whole marketing model.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 4:42pm

Post #29 of 76 (444 views)
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Agreed, the DoS teaser was quite dysfunctional, IMO [In reply to] Can't Post

Focus on supporting characters with nary a word from the two leads, and obvious digital doubles in the first teaser? Ugh. The first AUJ teaser was fantastic, the others...not so much.

Also agreed the LotR trailers/ads were IMO little masterpieces unto themselves to match the films.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 16 2013, 4:50pm

Post #30 of 76 (394 views)
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I love both as well. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Lord of the Rings is something so very special and three favorite films of all time. What Jackson did with them is something amazing and everything I love about the books is there on screen. That being said I loved AUJ. It has a few issues which I've talked about before but I think it's a pretty darn good film. Like you it had me smiling from start to finish. I felt it was every bit as good at being The Hobbit as The Lord of the Rings is at being itself. The additions to the film I also really enjoyed. So I walked away feeling the love and feel from AUJ that I do from the book. I also like Thorin in the movie more than his book counterpart and that's going to make more of a impact when he dies.

I think DoS is going to be great fun and another winner for films based on Middle-earth. I loved what we saw in the trailer for the most part and it looks to continue the feel of The Hobbit book. All in all I love that each series feels like their book counterparts but connected at the same time. Same way the books are.

In the end I love what we're getting and it makes for a great experience.



(This post was edited by Elessar on Jun 16 2013, 4:55pm)


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 16 2013, 4:51pm

Post #31 of 76 (403 views)
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Introductions [In reply to] Can't Post

It was fairly obvious that the first teaser was about introducing the characters new to the second film (Legolas, Tauriel, Beorn, etc). It did its job.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jun 16 2013, 4:57pm)


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 4:52pm

Post #32 of 76 (388 views)
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Agreed on all points... [In reply to] Can't Post

In any event, after my initial reaction to the DoS teaser, I've gone back to waiting for DoS and TABA more as curiosities as a Tolkien fan/fan of PJ's LotR, and out of a sense of duty, rather than an expectation of actual enjoyment on the level of LotR. I suppose it'll have to be enough to derive what I can from a return to ME in SOME form, even if it is, as you say, as a CGI-laden blockbuster. I suppose some disappointing ME is better than no ME at all.

I was hoping DoS would return more to the realm of LotR (especially as we're now dealing with Elves and Men again), but the teaser certainly seems to be moving further away from it - guess it's up to TABA now. Even so,it would be nice if there are things to appreciate, even through the heavy layer of CGI and the action-movie conventions, ETC.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 4:55pm

Post #33 of 76 (407 views)
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Yet the TTT teaser wasn't just Theoden/Eowyn/Eomer [In reply to] Can't Post

with a bit of Faramir, a bit of Gandalf, and fleeting cameos from the rest of the Fellowship.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


jtarkey
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 5:42pm

Post #34 of 76 (388 views)
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Yes,there were a few moments sprinkled throughout the film [In reply to] Can't Post

However, they were too few and far between. The quiet moments seemed like they were just trying to offer a break from the action, instead of driving the story in the way that LOTR did.

It seems like LOTR wasn't trying to be an action, or a fantasy film (if that makes sense). The action was pretty much just an added bonus to the excellent story and characters. In The Hobbit, it seems like the story doesn't flow from the heart in the same way.

I've used this example before, but I feel it's very fitting. Remember the scene between Aragorn and Boromir in Lorien? Not only does it give us a very touching. and complicated moment between two characters, it also delivers a lot of important information about Minas Tirith and Denethor. There wasn't so much straight forward exposition as what filled The Hobbit. It seemed like scenes were either; an action scene, a heartfelt scene, or just exposoition.

It was very choppy.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


kbdiggity
Rivendell

Jun 16 2013, 6:29pm

Post #35 of 76 (350 views)
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.... [In reply to] Can't Post

honestly, there was just as much moaning on these boards a decade ago during the theatrical release of the LoTR films.

"I hate how they portrayed Frodo"

"What is this Arwen warrior princess crap"

'Too much Legolas shield surfing"

"Denethor is terrible"

"They wasted Faramir's character"

blah, blah, blah....


It is terribly ironic that so many people on here are either unaware of that fact, or they have chosen to forget it.


(This post was edited by Ataahua on Jun 16 2013, 6:52pm)


Aragorn the Elfstone
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 6:32pm

Post #36 of 76 (362 views)
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I can't speak for others... [In reply to] Can't Post

...but I was in love with every single frame of LotR from day one. So I've not forgotten anything. I have genuine issues with the route PJ has taken with The Hobbit.

Criticism aside, I really do enjoy AUJ and expect to get more on board with these films after DOS is released. Tempered expectations will do wonders I imagine.

"All men dream; but not equally. Those who dream by night in the dusty recesses of their minds awake to find that it was vanity; But the dreamers of day are dangerous men. That they may act their dreams with open eyes to make it possible."
- T.E. Lawrence


(This post was edited by Aragorn the Elfstone on Jun 16 2013, 6:35pm)


malickfan
Gondor


Jun 16 2013, 6:36pm

Post #37 of 76 (342 views)
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Well to be fair the Faramir stuff still seems to come up all the time anyway [In reply to] Can't Post

And I've only been a member for two years. I didn't necessarily hate Frodo's portrayal, but Wood did get a tad annoying...

Anyway I guess it boils down to The Hobbit having a much bigger potential audience this time around-so there will be more complainers. I (and all my friends) was totally unaware of LOTR until PJ's films, and ignorant of many of the discussions/arguments...this time round though, I'm often the guy starting them...how times change.

This is not a very interesting signature is it?


Ataahua
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 16 2013, 7:03pm

Post #38 of 76 (357 views)
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I get the feeling [In reply to] Can't Post

that those in charge of directing WB's marketing don't understand how to work with fandom as well as those who were in charge of NewLine were. Remember WB's big blue a few years back when it announced that 'something big' would be announced soon about Middle-earth? Anyone worth their salt would have known that the one thing fans were talking about the most was when The Hobbit would get its very much delayed green-light, and the anticipation on TORN's discussion boards went into overdrive - only to be burst when the announcement was about the LOTR Blu-ray. The first announcement was clueless and tone-deaf to the fans' priority at the time, and the stuff-up knocked WB's credibility.

I give them enormous credit for getting these films off the ground, but they've got to get their marketing sorted.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Sauron’s master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 16 2013, 7:03pm

Post #39 of 76 (321 views)
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Amnesia [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
It is terribly ironic that so many people on here are either unaware of that fact, or they have chosen to forget it.


Your post will be forgotten and the same amnesia folks have about The Lord of the Rings will allow them to forgive and forget about The Hobbit. This would be good for you in retrospect, but only if you remember your own complaint. Wink


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jun 16 2013, 7:06pm)


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 7:10pm

Post #40 of 76 (320 views)
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I love both [In reply to] Can't Post

I think they appropriately have captured the difference in feel between the two stories. I don't have a problem with any of the cgi so I guess I really liked it all. I was very uncomfortable about Azog the very first time I saw it but now i accept him and don't get bothered too much. BluRay really changed my views on the cgi. I think the next two will amp up the emotion and danger in a BIG way.


Captain Salt
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 7:14pm

Post #41 of 76 (348 views)
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I had issues with Faramir and Denethor, but loved LotR overall... [In reply to] Can't Post

To me, Fellowship is a perfect movie, and TTT and RotK are near-perfect....meanwhile, TH is horribly disappointing.

Different films, different reactions. Seems pretty understandable to me.

My Top 5 Wish List for "The Hobbit"
5. Legolas will surf down Smaug's neck
4. Bilbo will be revealed to a Robot
3. Naked PJ cameo as Ghan-Buri-Ghan
2. Use of not only 3D, but smell-o-vision, plus the inclusion of axes coming out of the seats and poking the audience when appropriate
1. Not only keep the claim that Thorin & Co. ran amok in Mirkwood "molesting people", but depict said incident in vivid detail!!!!!


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 7:41pm

Post #42 of 76 (346 views)
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I'll never accept this [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll just acknowledge its existence and that I can't help it. It's a matter of taste, perhaps, but to me the Hobbit films simply look cheaper, less lyrical, less artistic and less inspired films which lack individual spirit. Or in short, they're worse cinema. But that's my opinion.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Off to an adventure in Republika e Shqipėrisė. Will be back 16.6.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Jun 16 2013, 8:07pm

Post #43 of 76 (307 views)
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Faramir [In reply to] Can't Post

I've seen the complaints about "what they did to Faramir." But I liked Faramir in the movie. He is closer to my own sensibilities than most other characters in the story. I thought he was well portrayed.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Jun 16 2013, 8:08pm)


Marionette
Rohan


Jun 16 2013, 8:37pm

Post #44 of 76 (316 views)
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LOTR and The Hobbit are the same [In reply to] Can't Post

People praising LOTR trilogy and bashing The Hobbit is absurd. The work as adaptation and the work in both movies is the same.

Personally The Hobbit is better than LOTR to me, I was dissapointed with LOTR because the books are way more difficult to adapt than The Hobbit. They so rich than the movies look poor (The book is better).

It doesn“t happen with The Hobbit.

I guess that“s because the Hobbit book is wide open to interpretations and addings and LOTR not, the movie changed and omited way too much and that was dissapointing
I don“t feel The Hobbit is a let down at all Smile

If not, it“s just exactly the same than LOTR movies.


"Dear friend good bye, no tears in my eyes. So sad it ends, as it began"
Queen



Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 9:19pm

Post #45 of 76 (267 views)
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Agree Ataahua [In reply to] Can't Post

They don't "get" the fandom at all. You can just tell the difference it's palpable. They just don't seem engaged and with a franchise and fandom that kind of engagement is important. The films will do well regardless, but it does take some of the fun out of it. Their marketing does need to get sorted and quickly IMO. They are darned lucky that PJ is as good as he is with fans, the fandom and this openness with the community or it would be even worse.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 9:24pm

Post #46 of 76 (282 views)
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Yes [In reply to] Can't Post

Yes, Yes there were. I remember those. I was a member then but left for awhile then the new boards came about and I had to re register because i forgot my log in information but I do remember.

1) Sacrilege! Arwen wasn't in LOTR and there was no romance and she shouldn't be in the film!
2) How dare Arwen take Glorfindel's place at the Ford of Bruinen PJ is going for the cheesy sex aspect!
3) No bombadil? What??? This film is an abomination!
4) It's all flashy battle sequences and non substance. It's all Viggo Viggo waving his sword around and Frodo only walks around looking spaced out!
5) Tiki Torch Denethor! Outrage! That never should have happened!
6) Faramir's character was wasted!
7) Gandalf's character is too domineering he was never that way in the books!

I remember all of those comments all too well.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Magpie
Immortal


Jun 16 2013, 9:33pm

Post #47 of 76 (323 views)
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One massive difference from then to now [In reply to] Can't Post

At the beginning of filming for LOTR, one of the executives for NewLine, actually talked to fans!

Michael De Luca, President and Chief Operating Officer of New Line Productions (at time of LOTR). Xoanon called him emailiac as he seemed to be comfortable with and prolific in chatting up fans by email, often divulging information about the LOTR movies to them.

haha... don't see that now, do we?


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 9:45pm

Post #48 of 76 (284 views)
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Not just your opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

"the Hobbit films simply look cheaper, less lyrical, less artistic and less inspired films which lack individual spirit. Or in short, they're worse cinema "

I couldnt have stated it better myself.

Cheap is a good word to describe them. Ironic, since they are costing those 500 million dollars to make.

Vous commencez ą m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 9:46pm

Post #49 of 76 (272 views)
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Yep [In reply to] Can't Post

That's exactly right Magpie. They actually reached out to the fans and involved them. It felt like a family experience. YOu don't get that feeling here. The studio is distant and removed. Any takers on whether we get another "trilogy tuesday" type event? I'm guessing not. I don't see us getting that at all this time around.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Brethil
Half-elven


Jun 16 2013, 9:48pm

Post #50 of 76 (279 views)
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Been hoping since the beginning [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
That's exactly right Magpie. They actually reached out to the fans and involved them. It felt like a family experience. YOu don't get that feeling here. The studio is distant and removed. Any takers on whether we get another "trilogy tuesday" type event? I'm guessing not. I don't see us getting that at all this time around.




for another Trilogy-style opening. Loved the first one so much. I don't know if they will go for it, but I for one would be in line.

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 9:55pm

Post #51 of 76 (385 views)
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Oh i'd go [In reply to] Can't Post

In a heartbeat for sure.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 16 2013, 10:29pm

Post #52 of 76 (397 views)
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I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

For some of us (myself included), it has to do with how well we knew the books before seeing the movies. I hadn't read the books before seeing FOTR, so I had no clue about what was left out, what was changed, etc. After seeing FOTR, I read through all 3 books, but my reading of FOTR was certainly colored by the fact that I saw the movie first. I was overall less happy with TTT and ROTK, but I still felt Jackson did a good job condensing the story (because remember, LOTR HAD to be condensed for time purposes). The visual style he presented in the LOTR trilogy was excellent, which I think also might have contributed to my more accepting response to the LOTR movies.

On the other hand, I knew The Hobbit (and the LOTR Appendices) like the back of my hand by the time AUJ came out, and so the changes were much more glaring to me. The first few times I saw AUJ, I was super amped-up and didn't want to admit that PJ maybe didn't do it as much justice as I would have liked. However, over time the changes bothered me more and more, and I'm at the point now where I can't watch AUJ without the PJ concoctions taking me out of the film a bit, and to an extent (and totally just my opinion), disrespecting what I feel TH is supposed to be all about. So far, I feel like Jackson has gone out of his way to emphasize Thorin, and he's rewritten his backstory in an attempt to turn TH into a story that rivals LOTR in scope (which it does not). I can still enjoy the movie, but not as much as I would have had Jackson stuck a bit closer to the text and the scope of the story (both for The Hobbit AND the Appendices). Azog's presence, in particular, still bothers me greatly. I also find the change in visual style a bit disappointing, especially with regard to the orcs. The orcs throughout the LOTR trilogy looked real to me, all of the orcs in AUJ (save Yazneg and Fimbul) looked horribly cartoony and not threatening in the least.

On a positive note, the wargs, while far from perfect and still too cartoony, are MILES better than the hyena-wargs in TTT. And although I'm record as thinking that the writing so far has been bad-to-average, I think the acting was top-notch- I particularly loved Freeman's Bilbo.

Anyway, I will most certainly see DoS, but after seeing the trailer, it looks to me like Jackson is taking everything I found disappointing with AUJ and running with it. I can only hope I'm wrong Smile


bungobaggins
Lorien


Jun 16 2013, 10:33pm

Post #53 of 76 (385 views)
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What exactly was "trilgoy Tuesday"? [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!" - Gandalf

Darth Bungo: "Gandalf the Gray never told you what happened to your father."
Bilbo Barrel-rider: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him."
Darth Bungo: "No, I am your father."


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 16 2013, 10:39pm

Post #54 of 76 (378 views)
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An event [In reply to] Can't Post

held back in December 2003 when they showed the EE of Fellowship of the Ring and The Two Towers before the midnight premiere of The Return of the King. It was a pretty special day and I hope they do that for The Hobbit Trilogy.



bungobaggins
Lorien


Jun 16 2013, 10:41pm

Post #55 of 76 (351 views)
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Ah, thanks!// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!" - Gandalf

Darth Bungo: "Gandalf the Gray never told you what happened to your father."
Bilbo Barrel-rider: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him."
Darth Bungo: "No, I am your father."


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 16 2013, 10:43pm

Post #56 of 76 (352 views)
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No problem :) [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 10:44pm

Post #57 of 76 (377 views)
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the day before [In reply to] Can't Post

ROTK opened at midnight on Wednesday. The Tuesday before New Line in conjunction with TORN's awesome assistance in getting the word out etc. had "trilogy tuesday" where at certain cinemas they showed the FOTR (EE Edition) followed by the EE of TT, followed by the opening of ROTK. But it wasn't just the movies. New Line and Sideshow had stuff at the Line Parties to hand out, collectible stuff, there were activities at the cinemas etc. and they had a special "gift" at the end of ROTK for those that came. It was an awesome experience.

I am so glad I took my two kids out of school to do it. My son was then 10 and my daughter 15. I took them out of school to attend the entire thing and my husband and sister came later that day after work. People made all kinds of treats for it, dressed up, Lembas was passed around, there were dance contests, trivia contests and New Line was there at each cinema to pass stuff out. It was awesome.

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


bungobaggins
Lorien


Jun 16 2013, 11:00pm

Post #58 of 76 (362 views)
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That does sound fun! [In reply to] Can't Post

I was 14 when ROTK was released (Oh man I feel like a little kid around here, lol.) and there's no way my parents would have let me go to that, even if it was happening in our area. The only reason my parents saw the LOTR films is because I had to drag them to the theater because I needed a ride. Tongue Now they haven't even seen AUJ, and I don't think they're particularly interested (it's odd, they're not the type of people who go to the cinema). Frown Oh well, I'm just hoping that one day I can share my love of these stories with children of my own.

"You are a very fine person, Mr. Baggins, and I am very fond of you; but you are only quite a little fellow in a wide world after all!" - Gandalf

Darth Bungo: "Gandalf the Gray never told you what happened to your father."
Bilbo Barrel-rider: "He told me enough. He told me you killed him."
Darth Bungo: "No, I am your father."


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 16 2013, 11:06pm

Post #59 of 76 (365 views)
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It was great [In reply to] Can't Post

My Dad and I went. I had finished finals in college so I was in break but getting to see movies on a subject that means so much with my Dad was great. Would only have been better if my mom could have went. The little film frame collectibles they gave away were great! I have 10 of them now.



entmaiden
Forum Admin / Moderator


Jun 16 2013, 11:13pm

Post #60 of 76 (347 views)
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I could not get tickets. [In reply to] Can't Post

The cinemas sold out instantly, even with online purchasing, so not everyone got to go. I didn't let that stop me - I worked at the Line Party at my theater so I could feel part of the action. I'll never forget looking at the box office signs showing all twelve theaters at that location showing "SOLD OUT". I think nearly every midnight showing in my city was sold out.

Not only were there give-aways from New Line and Sideshow, but my theater had free food for the time between the movies, then only started selling food about an hour before ROTK. That day, I really felt like I was part of a community of fans. Good times.


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 16 2013, 11:27pm

Post #61 of 76 (341 views)
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Getting tickets [In reply to] Can't Post

was a mess. The AMC I went to had their ticket stuff lock up and couldn't even sell tickets until later in the day. When I got home I got lucky and was able to secure tickets. I wore my TORn LP shirt which I still have and wear.



Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 16 2013, 11:48pm

Post #62 of 76 (311 views)
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I still have [In reply to] Can't Post

My "don't make me get my ring" shirt. I LOVE that shirt! Trilogy Teusday was a blast and yes the film frame collectibles they gave out at the end were fun. They are a part of history now too that film is all digital. It was fun to get actual frames of the film in a keepsake holder. Too great.

We had an art contest at our cinema and all the kids got to draw LOTR art and put it all over the outdoor mall where the cinema is. It was loads of fun. My 10 year old son at the time drew Treebeard and all kinds of drawings and put them up all over. It was the best. That was the serendipity days of LOTR for sure. I loved it. And I'm glad I took my kids out of school. They still talk about it even though they are 20 and 25 now. They remember when I took them out of school to see Trilogy Tuesday. My crowning moment as a mom. LOL!

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 16 2013, 11:55pm

Post #63 of 76 (339 views)
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Sounds like [In reply to] Can't Post

you had a great day. It's one I know they will take with them forever just based on how I feel. I remember it being so very cold outside while we waited in line but we had plenty of great conversations with people. Just a great great day. Cool



Brethil
Half-elven


Jun 17 2013, 12:20am

Post #64 of 76 (305 views)
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10 of them! Wow! [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
My Dad and I went. I had finished finals in college so I was in break but getting to see movies on a subject that means so much with my Dad was great. Would only have been better if my mom could have went. The little film frame collectibles they gave away were great! I have 10 of them now.




I'm very impressed Elessar! I love my film cell frame ... Glad you have such a great memory of it too!

Manwe, when asked a simple "Yes" or "No" question, contemplated, and responded "the middle one."


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Jun 17 2013, 12:36am

Post #65 of 76 (300 views)
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Im so glad [In reply to] Can't Post

Elessar that you had a great and wonderful day. It was magical for sure. it's super awesome that you have that memory and it's just great that you have that for the rest of your life!

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 17 2013, 1:43am

Post #66 of 76 (310 views)
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I'm a little crazy like that lol [In reply to] Can't Post

I just love them so I relate to that 100%. Having little clips of the movies are so cool. I have 2 of these really nice film frame deals and 2 for The Hobbit from a placed called Trend Setters LTD. So I'm really into these kinds of things to go along with my other items from Sideshow, Weta, Gentle Giant, and The Bridge Direct. Thanks! It's one of the best days of my life.

I'll link to that site for anyone interested.

The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey

The Lord of the Rings



Elessar
Valinor


Jun 17 2013, 1:46am

Post #67 of 76 (299 views)
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Thanks! :) [In reply to] Can't Post

Thank you :) it sounds like you had a similar experience and that's the kind of thing that brings a smile to my face. Knowing others enjoyed that as much as I did. Cool



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 17 2013, 4:33am

Post #68 of 76 (338 views)
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To be fair, too much grit would have ruined everything that made The Hobbit The Hobbit. [In reply to] Can't Post

The places where they went gritty (Azog for one) are the places where they strayed furthest from the source, and which also fit the least and worked less well.

In Reply To
A lot of people around here are probably aware that I was let down by AUJ. I missed the realism of LOTR. The heart and soul that seemed to be engrained in every scene. The quiet moments of hope and despair. Characters that all had their moments to shine. Though the details may have been skewed a bit, I truly believe that the LOTR trilogy is one of the best adaptations of all time. It kept the emotion that most fantasy/action films lack. And most importantly, the spirit of the book. When I watch the films, I am filled with the same sense of history and depth as when I read the books.

However, it has recently occurred to me that The Hobbit will (at the least) come into it's own in DOS. I realized while watching the trailer, that I didn't feel anything familiar at all. This is both good and bad. Bad in that these films don't seem to be adhering to the things that made the LOTR trilogy so successful, good in that its own style seems to be established....

The style being...a trilogy of action filled, CGI coated, modern blockbusters.

While I am still at odds with this "style", I have found a silver lining... It's making LOTR look even better than ever.

Will "There and Back Again" return to the gritty, ancient atmosphere of LOTR? Will The Hobbit trilogy finally be understood once it is completed? Or will it go down as a failed attempt to push the envelope of technology?


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 17 2013, 4:50am

Post #69 of 76 (287 views)
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I had roughly as many mixed feelings coming out of Fellowship as with An Unexpected. [In reply to] Can't Post

Things that made no sense in the broader scope, even if it made film/audince sense, like the only daughter of Elrond being sent out against The Nine when her mother had been abducted and abused by orcs. . . the dissapearance of Glorfindel. . . the loss of the Marzabul confrontation, no explanation of the connection between The Three, The Elves and The One. . . .

Rings had more High Beauty and Enchantment by far, but the Hobbit film, to me, had ample offerings of the more charming, bon vivant wonder. I enjoyed the first hour or so (minus the Moria errors) as much as the majority of the material from the Rings trilogy.

In Reply To
I feel the same.
I doubt I could ever accept what they have done to the Hobbit, its just sad. a wasted opportunity, all the raw materials were there, but WB or PJ or someone in charge ruined it, turned it into something banal and strangely empty. Its odd for me to watch Gandalf and feel nothing, its a weird thing not to care about the characters. Its almost like looking at a parody of itself, like someone has done a very clever and well made spoof. I do like bits of it and its certainly entertaining in parts, but as soon as I left the cinema I forgot it, it didnt make me dream or think about it afterwards. I remember coming out of the cinema the night I first watched Fellowship and Return of the King. I was blown away, filled with awe and a million emotions, everything etched into my imagination forever, it was love at first sight. AUJ was like revisiting that old love but its never the same, I couldnt recapture the feelings


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 17 2013, 4:55am

Post #70 of 76 (304 views)
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Its funny you says this [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been having a discussion with someone on another board about how The Hobbit looking and feeling brighter (at least film 1) is how it should be. That the only part in The Lord of the Rings that feels this way is the short time in Hobbiton during The Fellowship of the Ring.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Jun 17 2013, 5:03am

Post #71 of 76 (289 views)
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Exactly. And I love that part of Fellowship, all the more when placed in juxtaposition with the darkness which follows. [In reply to] Can't Post

I think, missteps aside (and all of the current films as well as the trailer for the upcoming film have definite flaws and failings), when viewed all together it will be a magnificent experience.

In Reply To
I've been having a discussion with someone on another board about how The Hobbit looking and feeling brighter (at least film 1) is how it should be. That the only part in The Lord of the Rings that feels this way is the short time in Hobbiton during The Fellowship of the Ring.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 17 2013, 5:12am

Post #72 of 76 (300 views)
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Its magic [In reply to] Can't Post

when you view The Fellowship and how it goes darker and gets serious. I love it. Cool I agree that there are flaws in what we've seen in all the films but the awesomeness each has outweighs the issues. I can't wait to spend a week in 2015 watching all six films over the course of a week. Cool



sauget.diblosio
Tol Eressea


Jun 17 2013, 3:42pm

Post #73 of 76 (216 views)
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It seems to me [In reply to] Can't Post

that PJ failed to get the tone right with AUJ (and, by the looks of it so far, DoS). Of course LotR and TH are very different books, both in tone and style. With LotR, he captured it's particular tone perfectly-- it's sense of ancient history and gritty realism. With TH, he took its more delicate, fanciful, lighthearted, adventurous tone and tried too hard to make it funny and exciting, and turned it into a childish (not child-like), gross, bombastic amusement park ride filled with overcooked cgi action. In the end, it just didn't have much personality or sense of wonder, despite the efforts of it's brilliant cast. There's a lot of subtlety to TH, and PJ completely missed it. It definitely has it's moments (the perfectly executed Riddles in the Dark, most of Bag End and Rivendell, the flight of the eagles), and for the most part i do enjoy it. It just misses the mark when it comes to the greatness of the LotR trilogy. Still holding out hope for DoS (though that has somewhat diminished) and TaBA, though.


namarie
Rohan


Jun 17 2013, 7:25pm

Post #74 of 76 (196 views)
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At this point LOTR is better than AUJ for me too [In reply to] Can't Post

Even though AUJ is visually stunning and I love a big part of it until now it didn't manage to wake up in me the same emotions or feelings that LOTR does.

Last year around Christmas I was watching ROTK on TV and even after so many years and even though I know LOTR by heart it's still moves me and it's still my favorite movie. And I don't love it in bits and pieces but I love it from the beginning till the end.

And I was thinking that I saw AUJ 3 times already in the cinema but it failed to make me feel the same.

I am curious what will be my reaction after I will see DOS this year. The trailer looks promising :)

And speaking of spoilers I hope this year I will be able to stay away from all the Tv spots and extra trailers so I can go in the cinema without too much hype or expectations :)


"The world is not in your books and maps. It's out there!"

"Such is the nature of evil. In time all foul things come forth."


elostirion74
Rohan

Jun 17 2013, 10:44pm

Post #75 of 76 (172 views)
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well [In reply to] Can't Post

I agree with you that it“s advisable to accept that The Hobbit trilogy will be very different from the LoTR films. The main things to consider IMO are these:

1. While LoTR is an exercise in narrowing the scope of the story down ito a focused, coherent and manageable storyline, the Hobbit trilogy will show a storyline which is deliberately made more complicated and involving plots that will have to be artificially merged This means that at least the two first Hobbit films will involve exposition that will slow down and potentially distract the pacing and focus of the films.

2. While the Hobbit trilogy probably will be darker/more serious as it progresses, it will probably include more typical elements from action/adventure films than the LoTR films.

The overall effect will probably be that the Hobbit films feel more uneven, varying more between overblown action and genuinely heartfelt and beautiful moments.

The most uncertain factor is probably "There and back again". I don“t expect it to return to the atmosphere of LoTR, but I expect it to feel different from the AUJ and DOS, since it has fewer obstacles to contend, being done with all the exposition and the set up and free to concentrate on just the story.

I“m a little surprised, though, that you and others expected the Hobbit films to be so similar to LoTR, knowing both the difference in the source material and the added difference in the approach they“ve chosen for the adaptation. The complication of the plots for the Hobbit films have been advertised far ahead of the release of the films.

I also think the style of AUJ and of DoS as seen in the teaser-trailer is considerably more complex than what you describe. Still the discrepancy between the tone of the different parts of these films can end up becoming their biggest problem. We“ll just have to wait and see..


hutch
Rohan


Jun 18 2013, 7:47pm

Post #76 of 76 (85 views)
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well, I think... [In reply to] Can't Post

I just deleted everything I wrote. It was like a huge, long thesis. It's apparent that I've got issues with AUJ. But what's keeping it all intriguing and fun for me is Ian McKellen as Gandalf. Just an absolute joy to watch other (many) problems notwithstanding(...I gotta say though the weird soundtrack switcheroos really annoy me. Why? Just, why?!)
But what's cool is, with the addition of the appendices material, even book readers aren't entirely sure what they're gonna get and that's kinda fun.

Davy Jones could've been Bilbo...I mean he was a Brit with a sense for adventure, singing & dancing. And think of the costs it would've save with forced perspective: he was ACTUALLY 5'3. He also hung out with a grumpy tall dude in a hat (Mike Nesmith.) While we're at it let's just have Micky Dolenz and Peter Tork as Merry & Pippin.


(This post was edited by hutch on Jun 18 2013, 7:48pm)

 
 

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