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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
New Tauriel Picture!
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Semper Fi
Rohan

Jun 6 2013, 12:59pm

Post #176 of 293 (5477 views)
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De-aged old Bilbo was awful, I agree [In reply to] Can't Post

He looked so waxy it was distracting and ridiculous. But then, the frodo/Bilbo cameo was really pointless. It wasn`t moving or exciting or anything. It was just a fan service.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 6 2013, 1:07pm

Post #177 of 293 (5469 views)
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ha ha! [In reply to] Can't Post

yes that was a surprise. Wink But with Martin you never quite know if its going to end in tears.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 1:07pm

Post #178 of 293 (5493 views)
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Was it ever... [In reply to] Can't Post

I really can't believe they allowed something that sloppy into such a big budget film. I understand that everyone's aged 10 years, but that doesn't mean they couldn't at least get the hair-style right.


Semper Fi
Rohan

Jun 6 2013, 1:17pm

Post #179 of 293 (5510 views)
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I wouldn`t be surrpised if Tauriel ended up married to Thranduil [In reply to] Can't Post

Since Legolas is a bachelor in canon nor he seems sad or anything in LOTR that would indicate his love died on a battlefield or otherwise, my guess is that Tauriel ends up as Thranduil`s Queen. That`s a standard cliche when it comes to low-class girl or boy in love with high-born girl or boy. They get married thus elevating their status.


Bumblingidiot
Rohan

Jun 6 2013, 1:17pm

Post #180 of 293 (5453 views)
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To clarify. [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit didn't have a scale before it was made - a scale was decided by the studio and producers. But, even though all films are expensive, there are big differences between budgets. And wanting to make a profit does not mean that you have to try to get everyone to see the film, by trying to cater for every demographic. That's why we have different types of film - or any product. I was just arguing against the notion that film making is just about marketing to the largest possible audience. The Hobbit story is also proven material - incredibly popular amongst people all over the world - it's a proven blockbuster - without the addition of the extra elements that some film makers seem to think are now necessary. Audiences are more intelligent than that.

Whether the spirit of the book has been retained is arguable - I think it has, in places. But it's undeniable that the story has been significantly altered so far.

It's not high art vs low art, it's good vs bad adaptation that's the issue.


In Reply To
I'm not entirely sure what you mean by saying that they didn't need to make a blockbuster. Films are expensive, especially at the scale of this franchise. An argument could be made that because there was a great deal of money put into these films, they are actually trying to stay as close to the spirit and story of the book as possible. Most of us here have seen the vlogs, so can we deny that there has been an incredible amount of work and detail put into the craftsmanship here? Richard Taylor and his crew put in many hours towards the intricacies of each character's personality and a race's culture.

I'm not disagreeing with you here, I'm just questioning the logic used to explain the point being made. It's hard to not be biased when considering whether or not an adaptation fits the spirit of the novel. It's all subjective. We're all reading the same book, but the way we engage with the text is determined by many social factors. There's not universal interpretation. So some people may feel that PJ has perfectly kept the spirit of the novel. And others don't feel that way. I don't feel that either group is wrong.

It seems like this is turning into a discussion on high vs. low art. And I think I'll stop here.

Smile



Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 1:34pm

Post #181 of 293 (5497 views)
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Funny, I didn't think this. [In reply to] Can't Post

To me, Galadriel looks more delicate and finer in The Hobbit than in LOTR, and I also prefer her performance in AUJ. I found her features somewhat coarser in LOTR, and didn't like all her acting, e.g. during 'green transformation' in FOTR.

Elrond and Gandalf look much as I remember them from LOTR except that there was something wrong with Sir Ian's make-up in the very first scenes of The Hobbit, where there was too much black around his eyes, or something.


In Reply To
Cate, Hugo, Ian Mckellen look older than in LOTR.



Elessar
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 2:49pm

Post #182 of 293 (5458 views)
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More power to ya [In reply to] Can't Post

That's great you feel that way. I just totally disagree that just some interactions between the characters is not depth. That's just story and an average one at best. Tolkiens 3 books is far more IMO and that's not even counting what depth Middle-earth has when you add in The Hobbit, Appendicies, UT, etc. The Lord of the Rings is the standard and Game of Thrones is what you settle for. It's great other feel differently but I don't and ill be honest it's a position I'm not budging on.



imin
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 3:18pm

Post #183 of 293 (5429 views)
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I agree :) [In reply to] Can't Post

About the books, lol. Tongue

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 3:21pm

Post #184 of 293 (5441 views)
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Whatever your thoughts on the respective authors' writing talents or the merits of their world-building skills... [In reply to] Can't Post

HBO's Game of Thrones adaptation is so far much more faithful to the books than Peter Jackson's The Hobbit adaptation IMO. Part of the reason I'm more looking forward to season 4 of GoT is because of what I consider to be Jackson's mangling of the appendices material included in AUJ. IMO Jackson's inserted too much fan-fiction nonsense, and it looks like there's more on the way.


Glorfindela
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 3:26pm

Post #185 of 293 (5431 views)
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About Bilbo [In reply to] Can't Post

I did like the fact that he was in the intro. and did the voiceover to the wonderful (for me) Erebor sequence. I could put up with his appearance for that especially as he has been ill. I object to this sort of thing far less than the addition of the 'Tauriel' character, which is not in the book and is likely to distract from The Hobbit story unless it is very minor indeed.

The next film could have so much going for it and it is a great pity that this controversial addition to the plot appears to be generating as much not very positive attention as the '48 HFR' issue did.


In Reply To
He looked so waxy it was distracting and ridiculous. But then, the frodo/Bilbo cameo was really pointless. It wasn`t moving or exciting or anything. It was just a fan service.



Elessar
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 3:30pm

Post #186 of 293 (5419 views)
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Better than nothing. lol [In reply to] Can't Post

 



jimmyfenn
Rohan


Jun 6 2013, 3:32pm

Post #187 of 293 (5415 views)
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ha [In reply to] Can't Post

'I have to yet again side against Tolkien on this one. The Lord of the Rings is 3 books. There are 7 planned GoT books. The families and the interactions between one another and amongst themselves is quite beyond anything The Lord of the Rings gives us'

i laughed when i read this. the hobbit family trees in the appendix' are more complex than anything GOT will ever throw at us.

if you can see the depth in tolkiens work, your reading it wrong.

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 3:36pm

Post #188 of 293 (5418 views)
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If you feel that way great [In reply to] Can't Post

Nothing wrong with where you're coming from. I disagree and as I said I couldn't be more excited about DoS. I'd say this falls under to each his own.



imin
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 3:38pm

Post #189 of 293 (5421 views)
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Lol [In reply to] Can't Post

I would also agree about the films to tv show in relation to the 3 lotr movies, especially FOTR. But AUJ just isn't as good but then for me GoT is one of the best things on TV along with Mad Men, Breaking Bad, Hannibal, TWD, Homeland, House of Cards.

In fact i think the best stuff is on TV right now - really coming into its own.

Hopefully DoS will be better and also hopefully the EE of AUJ will make the film better - better pacing etc.

I know you don't agree with AUJ and GoT, i just wanted to say i do agree with you on GoT and LOTR movies and the books goes without saying, Tolkien's are simply the best.

Smile

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


Faenoriel
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 3:39pm

Post #190 of 293 (5421 views)
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You haven't read the Silmarillion, have you? 90 % of the characters die [In reply to] Can't Post

either because of their own fault, or the fault of other characters.

But every word you say today
Gets twisted 'round some other way
And they'll hurt you if they think you've lied


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 3:49pm

Post #191 of 293 (5393 views)
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I might have agreed with this statement... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
the hobbit family trees in the appendix' are more complex than anything GOT will ever throw at us.


...if the majority of those names in the hobbit family trees were anything more than names mentioned once, and only as part of those family trees. The names in the family tree only existed to give the appearance of depth.


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 3:52pm

Post #192 of 293 (5394 views)
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It's all good. [In reply to] Can't Post

Obviously, I'm going to take AuJ over GoT. That's not to say I think GoT is awful but its nothing special for me either. Just too much nonsense by this point for me to flip, but I know there are lots of folks who love it. That's great as I know how that feels. The only other show of those I watch is TWD which love (the season finale sucked though) and I'd put that above GoT.

Despite me liking AuJ a lot I think both of those will be better.

It's all good. You know I enjoy reading your pov. Cool



imin
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 3:56pm

Post #193 of 293 (5392 views)
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Dont get me started on the finale of TWD! [In reply to] Can't Post

Was such an anti-climax - up there with the final episode of LOST, lol.

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Jun 6 2013, 3:59pm

Post #194 of 293 (5386 views)
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fan ficiton [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
the hobbit family trees in the appendix' are more complex than anything GOT will ever throw at us.


...if the majority of those names in the hobbit family trees were anything more than names mentioned once, and only as part of those family trees. The names in the family tree only existed to give the appearance of depth.



pmsl you think tolkien just made stuff up to pad his book out? each and every one of those names was thought of, with care and attention, heck think about all the elf ames, he had to make them up based on a language he made up that was translatable in not only another elf language but also it had to make sense in english too! tolkien did not do things lightly, thats why the story is so good. GOT will only ever feel like light reading compared, its basically fan fiction.

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 4:00pm

Post #195 of 293 (5373 views)
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I'm with ya [In reply to] Can't Post

It was very much that way. I was fairly hacked at the show. Lol I did like the finale of Lost but could see how people didn't.



Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 4:01pm

Post #196 of 293 (5396 views)
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Yes, I've read The Silmarillion... [In reply to] Can't Post

And like I said, it's generally the morally grey "good guy" characters that die in Tolkien's writing, usually due to the fact that they veered from the path of good, even if it was just for a moment. Sure, there's a very small number of "morally pure" character deaths, but that's certainly an exception rather than the rule. Most of the other "good guy" deaths are minor characters that aren't really central to the stories. As long as you stay 100% true to the "good" cause in Tolkien's writing, you have a very minute chance of dying.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 4:08pm

Post #197 of 293 (5373 views)
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Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

95% of the names in those family trees are undeveloped characters - names on paper, and nothing more. When did Orgulas Brandybuck ever come into any of the stories? Where was Togo Goodbody mentioned outside of the family tree? I could sit here and name a lot more names if I had the desire to. You said that the family trees were more complex than anything Game of Thrones would ever throw at us, and I pointed out how those family trees are only complex in the most superficial way possible.


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 4:09pm

Post #198 of 293 (5375 views)
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That's one of the great things though [In reply to] Can't Post

If you stay true to the path you're rewarded for doing the right/good thing. There is no reward for being a bad guy and in the end they get what's coming to them. That's not the case in GOT and its something I find a bit off putting. I live in a world where people who cheat, do bad things, etc are rewarded. If people find that the cats meow that's fine I just find it par for the course.



Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 4:14pm

Post #199 of 293 (5362 views)
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Fair enough [In reply to] Can't Post

I guess I find the more gritty realism of GoT appealing - I like the fact that Martin is willing to do the unexpected and turn the story on it's head. Don't get me wrong, I still love Tolkien Wink

As far as HBO vs Peter Jackson, I'm gonna have to go with HBO on this one...


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Jun 6 2013, 4:16pm)


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Jun 6 2013, 4:22pm

Post #200 of 293 (5365 views)
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blah [In reply to] Can't Post

however much you want to think it, GOT is not as rich and complex as tolkiens work.

yes those are just names, but each and everyone is considered, im sure if you researched the name orgulas youd find an origin, a place a reason why he used it. thats what tolkien does best. GOT even the title sounds like a fantasy chess game form an 8os computer game.

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro

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