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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
New Tauriel Picture!
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Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 4:07am

Post #151 of 293 (5666 views)
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To be fair... [In reply to] Can't Post

Martin's world was certainly influenced by Tolkien's, as is just about every high-fantasy writer that has come after Tolkien. Martin's world IS certainly fantasy, but the more fairy-tale-like stuff is mostly in the background (this may change in the next few books however), whereas with Tolkien the fantasy elements are right out in the open . I think the major differences are that Martin focuses heavily on the political intrigue and the constantly shifting alliances, and Martin's characters seem to me to have more depth to them. I guess it depends what you're looking for. I enjoy both authors for different reasons. But I do find Westeros and it's inhabitants just a bit more compelling than Middle-earth...


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Jun 6 2013, 4:09am)


Elessar
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 4:20am

Post #152 of 293 (5660 views)
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I guess [In reply to] Can't Post

I've read that before and I'm sure its true to an extent but Tolkien's work must have not made a big impact on him. There are fantasy elements for sure Dragons, Ice Men, guys who can control animals, etc but its must closer IMO to historical fiction. I disagree 100% that any character in Martin's world has more depth. There is so much depth to Middle-earth I don't think Martin could hope to actually touch that but we're obviously on different sides of the fence again. Its great that you enjoy Martin's world.



The Mitch King
Rohan


Jun 6 2013, 5:35am

Post #153 of 293 (5644 views)
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Middle Earth > Game of Thrones BUTTTT [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
if you want. I have no problem with that but I'm on the other side of the fence. I'm ready to camp out again for The Hobbit: DoS panel at Comic-Con and see the it at midnight. I'm very "meh" about season finale, season 4, and you couldn't pay me to camp out for their panel at Comic-Con.

In Reply To

Same here, one is a blockbuster the other is an HBO series. There wasn't anything "meh" about the most recent episode and the finale has very critical parts of the story. We haven't even gotten to the good stuff of the Hobbit yet and I have absolute faith in PJ. Smaug has come!!!!


In Reply To
I want to comment as well on your posts about the two worlds.

For me Middle-earth is leaps and bounds better than the world Martin has created. I'm again on the other side of the fence and say that Middle-earth along with the characters in it pull me in and have kept me in it for years. I just don't feel that way about the world Martin created. Any character you feel the slightest bit of attachment to is sure to die and the bad guys are always getting the best of situations. For me personally Martin created a world that feels like a sad cheap rip off of Middle-earth.

In Reply To

Game of Thrones is just more realistic is what you're essentially saying haha In no way do I feel GoT is a rip off at all. Their is a lot of truly original stuff in GoT. They both have dragons but dragons aren't Tolkien's idea or anything. Neither are wizards, elves, dwarfs(he did spell them differently) or magic.


In Reply To
He has but he labels it as fantasy. Its more like historical fiction to be honest and it should be labeled as much. I live in the real world and I love stuff like Middle-earth because it is fantasy (that feels real mind you) allowing you to escape what's going on. I don't need to see or read what I can see in the local news/read in the local papers. I love history and find Medival history interesting but there is a difference in reading what happened compared to some of the soft porn GoT episodes turn out.

In Reply To

Abraham Lincoln Vampire Slayer is historical fiction. Quite a bit different from GoT no?The sex and violence is at least consistent with the books unlike Azog, Radagast, Dwarven history, Nazgul tombs, Tauriel, Bolg etc etc etc ETC.


In Reply To
The violence doesn't bother me much at all (I do think they go a bit far at times) so that is never really a big issue. Maybe calling him a hack is too much but he might not be too far off a horny adolescent boy.


The childish tone of the Hobbit movie could have used a little death. How about Azog's death and hopefully Tauriel's and Radagast's??? THAT would add some weight to the story. Seriously I love Tolkien but what twist in the books are there? I was literally never caught off guard the first time I read them. Everybody knew Gandalf wasn't dead!!! haha just because Martin kills off characters unexpectedly and actually addresses the human nature of sex doesn't mean he is a "horny adolescent boy".


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jun 6 2013, 5:48am

Post #154 of 293 (5640 views)
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Whewwww [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I've read that before and I'm sure its true to an extent but Tolkien's work must have not made a big impact on him. There are fantasy elements for sure Dragons, Ice Men, guys who can control animals, etc but its must closer IMO to historical fiction. I disagree 100% that any character in Martin's world has more depth. There is so much depth to Middle-earth I don't think Martin could hope to actually touch that but we're obviously on different sides of the fence again. Its great that you enjoy Martin's world.


I have to yet again side against Tolkien on this one. The Lord of the Rings is 3 books. There are 7 planned GoT books. The families and the interactions between one another and amongst themselves is quite beyond anything The Lord of the Rings gives us.


The Mitch King
Rohan


Jun 6 2013, 6:34am

Post #155 of 293 (5654 views)
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One thing about Tauriel [In reply to] Can't Post

She is incredibly attractive and a welcome addition from a guy's standpoint haha I think she is our "hottest" female character yet!


Bombadil
Half-elven


Jun 6 2013, 8:34am

Post #156 of 293 (5604 views)
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Bomby ('heart') Hot Elves [In reply to] Can't Post

Give me More um THEMZZZ!


(This post was edited by Bombadil on Jun 6 2013, 8:35am)


Yngwulff
Gondor


Jun 6 2013, 8:40am

Post #157 of 293 (5586 views)
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zombie movies [In reply to] Can't Post

And hot chick cliches ... I hope not!


Take this Brother May it Serve you Well
Vote for Pedro!


boldog
Rohan


Jun 6 2013, 9:50am

Post #158 of 293 (5605 views)
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i must admit [In reply to] Can't Post

but I believe that her role will play out well. I personally like the fact of her having a romance weather its with legolas or kili, I don't care, it will be nice to see. besides she is dam hot as well!

"fingolfin looked up in grief to see what evil morgoth had done to maedhros"


Semper Fi
Rohan

Jun 6 2013, 10:13am

Post #159 of 293 (5585 views)
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Because she strikes a sexy pose, otherwise the picture is way airbrushed, no freshness of Arwen youth here [In reply to] Can't Post

Just my opinion. And I`m not a guy so each ot its own. I guess guys prefer nondescript hotness to regal beauty.


imin
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 10:20am

Post #160 of 293 (5571 views)
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For what it's worth (not much, lol) [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a guy and i don't find Evangeline Lilly attractive, especially as Tauriel. Personally think Liv Tyler is far more beautiful but it's all personal opinion.

And Iluvatar spoke to Ulmo, and said: 'Seest thou not how here in this little realm in the Deeps of Time Melkor hath made war upon thy province? He hath bethought him of bitter cold immoderate, and yet hath not destroyed the beauty of thy fountains, nor of my clear pools. Behold the snow, and the cunning work of frost! Melkor hath devised heats and fire without restraint, and hath not dried up thy desire nor utterly quelled the music of the sea. Behold rather the height and glory of the clouds, and the everchanging mists; and listen to the fall of rain upon the Earth! And in these clouds thou art drawn nearer to Manwe, thy friend, whom thou lovest.


Semper Fi
Rohan

Jun 6 2013, 10:26am

Post #161 of 293 (5572 views)
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Liv in LOTR is beautiful, not pretty, cute or hot but beautiful [In reply to] Can't Post

I can see why Tauriel would be considered hot though I really don`t like that hair color and style on Lilly so I`m disappointed. It`s an downgrade, IMO. Sometimes costumes and make-up give an actress the best look of her career (Liv in LOTR) but Tauriel isn`t that case. Lilly looked much better in Real Steel with her natural curley dark hair. I`m not bringing up Lost because she was younger so it isn`t fair to compare. The way they airbrushed Tauriel`s face on that picture and her hair remind me of Cate Blanchett in Robin Hood, also not the best look for the actress.


(This post was edited by Semper Fi on Jun 6 2013, 10:33am)


Shagrat
Gondor

Jun 6 2013, 10:55am

Post #162 of 293 (5581 views)
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Some things I would say [In reply to] Can't Post

While I am as anti-Tauriel as most, there are several things which should be noted I feel:

1) This is very evidently a promo pic. I wouldn't take this as definitive proof of Tauriel's aesthetic.

2) Regarding her plotline. Remember before AUJ when we'd hear about Bifur's injury and the complex relationship between Ori, Dori and Nori? These kind of stories never made the final cut for one reason or another, despite being spoken about with interest by the actors involved. It may be that Tauriel's (presumably) unrequited love for either Legolas or Thranduil will be more implied than stated, perhaps in her mannerisms and eagerness to impress. I hope this is the case anyway. I don't want any soppy declarations of love, dying in someone's arms, etc. Crazy

3) As a general comment, I still think people are far too quick to judge AUJ unfairly against the entire LOTR trilogy, forgetting we've only seen one Hobbit film. Furthermore, I could be sure that LOTR shared many of the same purported flaws (drug references, juvenile humour, some fairly unbelievable action set-pieces).


Arannir
Valinor


Jun 6 2013, 11:01am

Post #163 of 293 (5534 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I will not start to collect all the issues I ( and several others) have with the adaption of ASOIAF. Just wanted to give a different viewpoint - that, that not everyone is that thrilled about GoT. Although I would agree that it is not a bad adaption... as I said before I actually hope they will saven a bit what Martin screwed up imho after volume 3.

As to the other things you mention - I still think AUJ breathed Tolkien and was full of respect for his work. But that is anindividual thing, of course, what one accepts and what not.



ďA dragon is no idle fancy. Whatever may be his origins, in fact or invention, the dragon in legend is a potent creation of menís imagination, richer in significance than his barrow is in gold.Ē J.R.R. Tolkien

Words of wisdom that should be remembered - both by critics, purists and anyone in between.


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 11:47am

Post #164 of 293 (5525 views)
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It's going to be a challenge for HBO... [In reply to] Can't Post

adapting the next few books, because the AFfC and ADwD books are supposed to be happening concurrently. That's really a crap-load of material to be happening all at once. I think that was a bad decision on Martin's part, but we'll see what HBO does with it. So far, I feel they've remained remarkably true to the books. Sure, there have been a few revisions, but those have been mostly minor as far as I'm concerned.

Nothing like the extraneous fan-fic backstories and plot-lines that Jackson is forcing into his new trilogy (BIG mistake making it a trilogy, IMO). Jackson showed an amazing amount of restraint with his LOTR trilogy, but he's totally lost his mind with regard to The Hobbit. I can only hope he curbs his self-indulgence a bit and decides to cut some of the extra crap out of the next few films. Why make a 3 hour film when 30% of it is totally made-up? Why do we need Beorn to have a blood-feud with Bolg? Why do we need a female elf love-story? Is there any good reason he had to completely re-tool the history of the dwarves and the Nazgul? I have a feeling we ain't seen nothing yet regarding the fan-fic plot-lines.


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Jun 6 2013, 11:49am)


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 12:25pm

Post #165 of 293 (5521 views)
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It's because... [In reply to] Can't Post

Boyens had to have her heroic female ass-kicker.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 6 2013, 12:27pm

Post #166 of 293 (5510 views)
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so true, [In reply to] Can't Post

I am not sure who is cuter, Brienne/Jaime or Tyrion/Sansa. sorry wrong medieval saga. *sigh*


Shagrat
Gondor

Jun 6 2013, 12:29pm

Post #167 of 293 (5521 views)
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Are we sure on that? [In reply to] Can't Post

Despite what Jackson/Boyens say, I'm still convinced the invention of Tauriel is a studio thing. It's not hard to believe they were worried about the lack of female characters and a love story in these films, given that they'd be looking at repeating the same formula which made the LOTR trilogy so successful.


Semper Fi
Rohan

Jun 6 2013, 12:29pm

Post #168 of 293 (5529 views)
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Tauriel sounds too juvenile for a character played by a 30something mother [In reply to] Can't Post

Unrequited love for a high-born man, character being too young to be wise are cliches that belongs in a highschool-themed movies. Twilight may be awful but they cast teens (Stewart, Lautner) and early 20something (Pattinson) so character immaturity was easy to buy because actors weren`t 30somethings trying to pass for half their age. In this case, however, an obviously mature actress seems to be saddled with a character who is written for a much younger actress. Now, correct me if I`m wrong but wasn`t Tauriel originally written with then 16-17 years old Saoirse Ronan in mind? That could explain the teen-friendly "too passionate and unwise due to young age" and "love drives her actions" tropes that are unvoidable in teen characters in fiction (movies, TV, YA). Not that a teenager would work as a head of the King`s Guard but it looks like they kept all the juvenile traits only now applied to a 30something.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 6 2013, 12:35pm

Post #169 of 293 (5509 views)
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sorry I was a bit harsh [In reply to] Can't Post

and Cate is a wonderful actress, but I found her look very distracting because lets face it she does look older in TH and she shouldnt look older than in LOTR, its a discontinuity that irritates me a bit, as does the weird looking Frodo and old Bilbos wig, I kinda notice little details like that and it takes me out of the moment because it catches at my (Hobbit sized) attention span. Unsure


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Jun 6 2013, 12:37pm)


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 12:43pm

Post #170 of 293 (5500 views)
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Pretty sure [In reply to] Can't Post

Boyens is always going on about they felt the need to inject femininity into the story, so I'd say this is most definitely her creation. I'm not really sure how the screenwriter/studio relationship works, but I doubt WB brought Tauriel to the writers and then said "Do something with her." Not saying you couldn't be right, but if that's the case, Boyens is doing a great job covering it up.


Semper Fi
Rohan

Jun 6 2013, 12:48pm

Post #171 of 293 (5502 views)
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ironically, the character doesn`t seem feminine at all but like a guy with breasts [In reply to] Can't Post

If you are to add a female character to bring some feminity than make her feminine, not a Rambo with breasts (judging by her ruthless killer comments) or Robin Hood with breasts (judging by her clothes).


Salmacis81
Tol Eressea


Jun 6 2013, 12:49pm

Post #172 of 293 (5486 views)
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Although not a romantic pairing... [In reply to] Can't Post

Arya and The Hound are fast becoming one of my favorite duos Wink

Anyway, regarding actors looking older, I think they did an atrocious job with Old Bilbo. Old Bilbo almost looks nothing like his LOTR counterpart. Did they even look at LOTR Bilbo as a reference? It almost looks like they tried to recreate the look from memory; terrible job with that.


(This post was edited by Salmacis81 on Jun 6 2013, 12:53pm)


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 6 2013, 12:50pm

Post #173 of 293 (5481 views)
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I love it toooooooooooooooo! [In reply to] Can't Post

Rains of Castamere. Shocked

but srsly the production values are absolutely stunning, Ireland and Malta beautiful indeed. I agree about the boobs slapped in your face whether you want them or not. But still the Medieval peroid was not full of fluffy bunnies and rainbows, it was a harsh gruesome desperate fight for survival. I think Martin is showing it warts and all with a dash of glamour to soften the blow. It reminds me of a Plague ridden hand in a velvet glove. Some of the characters are pretty unique, Tyrion, Brienne, Bron, who would believe such superficially unsympathetic characters could make you smile and root for their survival.


Semper Fi
Rohan

Jun 6 2013, 12:54pm

Post #174 of 293 (5488 views)
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Everyone looks older, that`s unavoidable [In reply to] Can't Post

Cate, Hugo, Ian Mckellen look older than in LOTR. It`s been 10 years, no make up can change that. At least they didn`t try the awful de-age effect that didn`t work on Cate in Benjamin Button. She didn`t look like a teenager or 20something in scenes where she was supposed to be that age, but like a heavily airbushed late 30s Cate Blanchett. Her face was not young but like a mask. That`s the main problem with de-age SFX - it doesn`t bring back youth but only turns actors into wax figures.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Jun 6 2013, 12:59pm

Post #175 of 293 (5496 views)
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yes I think you are spot on about that [In reply to] Can't Post

and Saorise has a much more ethereal Elven looking face imo. I can imagine her adoring Legolas and Thranduil from afar..... oh gawd stop me now! Laugh

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