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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Has Mr. Jackson shown any signs of contrition?
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Hanzkaz
Rohan

Mar 7 2013, 12:51pm

Post #126 of 240 (547 views)
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Contrition? [In reply to] Can't Post

 After seeing what Michael Bay did to Transformers, we should be giving a medal to Peter Jackson.

Both directors made billions, but they had very different approaches to the franchises they were responsible for.

Personally, I think PJ had the harder job, and he did it better too.

___________________________________________________


From the makers of 'The Lord of the Rings' comes the sequel to Peter Jackson's Hobbit Trilogy -
'The War in the North, Part I : The Sword in the Tomb'.



(This post was edited by Hanzkaz on Mar 7 2013, 12:52pm)


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 12:51pm

Post #127 of 240 (554 views)
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Fine and finer... [In reply to] Can't Post

Its just such a deliciously rich topic!
I will await our cereal show... it would be a variation of My Dinner with Andre.....Lucky Charms with Gandalf


Elenorflower
Gondor


Mar 7 2013, 12:52pm

Post #128 of 240 (556 views)
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yup that is just my opinion [In reply to] Can't Post

I have never seen a video game either, but I get the picture. LOTR did contain many niggles, but it was genius anyway. AUJ fails as a story about Bilbo on every level. First, it was about Thorin and his story, and second Bilbo's character was fundamentally changed for the worst, becoming lukewarm, and thirdly he is hardly in the story. If you like AUJ because you see a bunch of old faces, music, visuals, fair enough, but it was in no way shape or form a work of genius. Genius is fresh and innovative, not a stale rehash.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Mar 7 2013, 12:53pm)


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 12:53pm

Post #129 of 240 (556 views)
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It's better to be hot than cold [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink repentance is hightly overrated anyway


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 2:00pm

Post #130 of 240 (538 views)
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It is that. lol [In reply to] Can't Post

 



Elessar
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 2:04pm

Post #131 of 240 (542 views)
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I think you assume too much [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought there was a bit too much snot with the Trolls, drinking/belching could have been tweaked in Bag End, get rid of the bird poop, and I'd like to see a bit closer to the events of the Dwarven history. Other than that I loved the movie from start to finish so you would be incorrect with your assumption.



Elessar
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 2:05pm

Post #132 of 240 (532 views)
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I figure I could go to hell for worse things [In reply to] Can't Post

than loving AUJ. If that's the worse thing that I do in all my life I figure I'm quite successful

I think some might need to walk away from the edge of hyperbole. Tongue



Arannir
Valinor

Mar 7 2013, 2:14pm

Post #133 of 240 (549 views)
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No offense... [In reply to] Can't Post

... but I wonder whether your feeling that people here are aggressive towards those who do not like the movie may come from the generalizations of your posts and the assumptions that your opinion can be objectively shown or proven.

There are other people on here who are very disappointed but who do not really get aggressive about it and no aggressive responses either. People like Ardamire for example (I hope it is okay to mention you here, Ardamire ;) ). Just a thought, since I tried several times to discuss several issues with you but it either turned very harsh or there was no response anymore. I mean, it is your perfect right - but it provoces certain reactions, of course.


(PS: This can certainly be applied to others here who tend to get pretty aggressive in those discussions. But in general I had the feeling that "lovers" and "haters" were able to discuss things quite nicely in this board... much better than in most boards).


ShireHorse
Rohan

Mar 7 2013, 2:23pm

Post #134 of 240 (523 views)
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"walk away from the edge of hyperbole"! [In reply to] Can't Post

Good phrase, LOL!

I don't know why people will keep on insisting that Bilbo was "hardly in it" when we have proof that he has three times as much dialogue as Thorin. And if everyone in it apart from Bilbo was as 2D as in the book then that would ultimately take away from Bilbo.

And the other thing is that everything that TORn members enjoyed, like the Bag End scenes, were hated by the critics: they only began to enjoy the film once they got on to the "video game" bits. So, are we or the critics right or wrong?

Well, no-one is because it's only opinion and PJ has tried to give us something to satisfy everyone which is why people nitpick over the bits they don't like. I didn't like Ori's burp or Radagast but I noticed that people around me at the cinema obviously thought such additions wonderful. And so, I got on with it and enjoyed the many things that did please me.


Elenorflower
Gondor


Mar 7 2013, 2:43pm

Post #135 of 240 (534 views)
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No offence but [In reply to] Can't Post

the 'aggression' is in your imagination. I am discussing the subject and expressing my opinions, and when people say things like "well its just your opinion or the classic "lets agree to disagree" I just assume there is no point in continuing with someone who blocks the flow, or doesnt wish to discuss further. I have NEVER said anything about people being aggressive towards others who dont like the film, another case of you imagining what I said rather than actually reading what I said.

I have also given at least one objective moment when Bilbo's character was changed for the worst, so yes things can be objectively proven by giving examples.


(This post was edited by Elenorflower on Mar 7 2013, 2:46pm)


Arannir
Valinor

Mar 7 2013, 3:05pm

Post #136 of 240 (530 views)
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Negativity was the term you used... [In reply to] Can't Post

... my apologies.


Quote

I have also given at least one objective moment when Bilbo's character was changed for the worst, so yes things can be objectively proven by giving examples.



How is it objective to say that this is a change "for the worst"?

Wrong information can be proven wrong... an actual blooper can be found and labelled a "mistake". But a change in Bilbo's character... I think it can be different, changed or whatever. But certainly not "to the best" or "to the worst". Who would judge that?



(This post was edited by Arannir on Mar 7 2013, 3:07pm)


Ham_Sammy
Tol Eressea

Mar 7 2013, 3:38pm

Post #137 of 240 (525 views)
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Lucky Charms with Gandalf [In reply to] Can't Post

Now that's a great one. I want t play I do! ::;Does her best impression of flicking Bilbo's hand like he does in Riddle in the Dark::

Thank you for your questions, now go sod off and do something useful - Martin Freeman Twitter chat 3/1/13


Noria
Gondor

Mar 7 2013, 3:59pm

Post #138 of 240 (523 views)
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Nothing to apologize for [In reply to] Can't Post

PJ has nothing to be contrite about because heís done nothing wrong. He made the movie he wanted to make and thatís how it should be. Movies are only movies.

I have read LotR, the Silmarillion, The Hobbit, Unfinished Tales etc. more times than I can count over more than forty years. I love them.

But they are only books, books with flaws at that. I've never understood why people treat them as if they were either perfect or religious texts instead of novels. I rather doubt that Tolkien himself would be comfortable with that.


imin
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 4:18pm

Post #139 of 240 (527 views)
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Really? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I've never seen a video game


I am genuinely shocked. lol. Tongue


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 4:39pm

Post #140 of 240 (517 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

I mean but I tried to say it in a joking way to not totally get anyones dander up.

I know. He's in it a lot. I find that arguement to be a strawmans argument to be honest but people feel that way for whatever reason they want to feel that way. I also thought Bilbo was every bit the Bilbo we know from the book.

Exactly! Who is righ or wrong with that is funny. As some will try to use critics as a way to say see the movie is bad but they like the things some don't like. Its a lot like cherry picking your argument.

I'm the same. There are things I didn't care for that I could tell others did. That's what the movies are all about. Varying likes within something most of us like. In the end most of the movie worked so well for me I loved it.



Elessar
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 4:41pm

Post #141 of 240 (503 views)
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Proven for who? [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

I have also given at least one objective moment when Bilbo's character was changed for the worst, so yes things can be objectively proven by giving examples.



Yes, you can prove your point on why you feel that way but objectively (for your POV mind you) doesn't mean that's fact. That may not be what you're trying to say but that's how this comment kind of comes across.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 4:43pm

Post #142 of 240 (507 views)
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They will stand it together. [In reply to] Can't Post

In the end, unless things deteroriate badly in the quality of the next two films, they will be taken as a whole in the fullness of time, unless they are displaced by another re-imagining, which is not entirely likely, at least not for several decades.

As to the sin. . . I think many sin/crimes were commited in the earlier trilogy, and certainly from a purist perspective there is A LOT to gripe about. With the possible exception of the revision of Dwarven history, there are no changes here more outrageous than those in the LOTR movies.

In Reply To
will stand the test of time better than AUJ


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 4:59pm

Post #143 of 240 (511 views)
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Really? I have issues with both, but [In reply to] Can't Post

my dear, lovely (I see you as Galadriel Wink) ElenorFlower. . . are you really going to tell me you found no merit in the Erebor sequence? Or that the Good Morning sequence (loved the Wizard's transformation of the smoke ring) and The Unexpected Party do a very admirable job of translating those scenes from the book? Are you really going to suggest that the Lonely Mountain song was not chillingly effective? The movie wasn't perfect. And PARTS may have been akin to the video game you speak of. But it is unfair to categorize the entire movie that waym and a false re-imagining to suggest that LOTR was perfect and sans flaw.

In Reply To
LOTR was a work of genius. AUJ is a flaccid video game.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 5:17pm

Post #144 of 240 (511 views)
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Don't overlook Gandalf's entrance into Goblintown. [In reply to] Can't Post

Things may have gone downhill into a videogame sequence shortly thereafter, but that entrance was magnificently epic and appropriate.

In Reply To
I almost wish the whole thing was garbage so I wouldn't have such mixed feelings about it. The same phenomena occurs each time I watch the film, and this is my line of thinking:

Prologue: This is different than what I imagined, but wow it's actually pretty great...lots of CGI though. Is Thrors beard real?
Good Morning Conversation: This is awesome! On par with the quality expected from LOTR but with some added whimsy!
Unexpected Party: This is also awesome! Why don't I like this movie very much? Ori burps...oh that's one of the reasons
East Gate Flashback: This is great...but...wait...ughhh...there's Azog. It's not that bad though, still a good film so far!
Radagast: Now it's all coming back to me...this is nonsense.
Trolls: Mehhh, it was close to redeeming itself again
Everything after until Riddles in The Dark: Ok, now I remember why I wasn't impressed with this movie at all. Where's Bilbo? What was up with all that teribble CGI and corny chase scenes?

Then Riddles comes and I finally feel like I'm watching a film by the same person who directed LOTR...more nonsense...beautiful shots of the eagles...Smaugs eye is awesome!

I've come to the conclusion that I keep watching the film because Riddles, and the very last shot of the film leaves a good taste in my mouth. I find myself pretty much pushing the middle of the film out of my memory, involuntarily I might add simply because my brain likes to remember the good things.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


imin
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 5:19pm

Post #145 of 240 (503 views)
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It was great [In reply to] Can't Post

but as simple jack would say - my head movies was better for that scene going off the detail given in the book

Still im not complaining, i enjoyed his entrance and dont tell anyone but i kinda like the great goblin as well, lol


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 5:31pm

Post #146 of 240 (497 views)
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And I agree and entirely understand. [In reply to] Can't Post

I too envisioned an even more amazing scene, closer to the book descrition. The lights all going out and a pillar of blue flame exploding up to the cavernous roof etc. However, as one who was all too aware of Peter's ambivalent attitude regarding magic, and his unapologetic tendency to diminish Gandalf's feats of enchantment, I was very worried that the arrival of The Wizard might be handled in a far less categorically magical and in a less epic manner. I didn't think it was perfectly handled. But it was VERY impressive, all things considered, and properly conveyed a lot of things that have sometimes been left in question. I wish the pinecone scene had measured up as well. lol

Amd, about the Great Goblin. . .Wink I also liked his portrayl. I won't go telling that you did, but fear not, I will take on the "onus" for us both, and say out loud that I liked it (you can hide behind me and just provide moral suppor), and dare anyone to tell me I should think otherwise. lol

In Reply To
but as simple jack would say - my head movies was better for that scene going off the detail given in the book

Still im not complaining, i enjoyed his entrance and dont tell anyone but i kinda like the great goblin as well, lol


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Brethil
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 5:34pm

Post #147 of 240 (490 views)
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Of course Ham Sammy! [In reply to] Can't Post

I will put two front row seats in a state of eternal dibs!


Elessar
Valinor


Mar 7 2013, 5:36pm

Post #148 of 240 (487 views)
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Great Goblin [In reply to] Can't Post

Outside of his chin I liked the characters design and how he was played. So you can protect me as well. lol Tongue

As far as the whole Goblin Town sequence other than a bit over the top at the end I really liked it and liked seeing Gandalf show just how much power his character does have.



AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Mar 7 2013, 5:41pm

Post #149 of 240 (478 views)
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Will do. [In reply to] Can't Post

WinkAngelic And, agreed. Agreed on all the points of one of your earlier posts as well. Too much mucus, bird feces and burping, and too many revisions to history. I would add, too much stature imbalance in the Gandalf/Galadriel interactions at points. Otherwise, I thought it was very well done. Though the Stone Giants ended up being rather OTT.

In Reply To
Outside of his chin I liked the characters design and how he was played. So you can protect me as well. lol Tongue

As far as the whole Goblin Town sequence other than a bit over the top at the end I really liked it and liked seeing Gandalf show just how much power his character does have.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Elenorflower
Gondor


Mar 7 2013, 5:51pm

Post #150 of 240 (490 views)
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I suppose I get my dander up [In reply to] Can't Post

because those examples you quote which are indeed very good, and this excellent beginning up to say the Trolls went rapidly down hill (for me). I love the Misty Mountain song and Good Morning and the Party, all good stuff, and the Dale/Erebor sequence had me glued to the screen it was so interesting. Riddles was also excellent, Martin and Andy were the hilight of the film for me. The atmosphere of the Dale/Erebor sequence was very fresh and new, but at the point where they find the deserted house before the Trolls is where they lost me. I got increasingly disillusioned from that moment. it was fidgetsville. Laugh

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