|
|
 |
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
utku
Rivendell
Feb 14 2013, 12:49pm
Post #26 of 145
(4726 views)
Shortcut
|
I think that line is the single worst thing in the movie, at least for me. I can't think of anything else. :)
|
|
|
Otaku-sempai
Immortal
Feb 14 2013, 1:04pm
Post #27 of 145
(4647 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Excesses of Spielbergian proportion...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
There are several over-the-top moments that were not at all necessary. I think that all of them have been cited by other posters as well. The main ones:
- Troll-snot. 'Nuff said.
- The stone-giants. I love that they were actually included, but not how the sequence was executed. I would have preferred more organic giants, but the real problem was the false death-scene which was far too manipulative for its own good.
- The escape through Goblin-town. It was like Jackson was trying to emulate Spielberg in Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom.
- Oddly enough, the bunny-sled doesn't bother me overmuch.
'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring
|
|
|
Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea
Feb 14 2013, 1:57pm
Post #28 of 145
(4629 views)
Shortcut
|
Hi Lusitano here is a nother bit:
Too many sunrises or sunsets, there were few shots where I could notice a real daylight. Nor talking about landscapes.
The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!
|
|
|
imin
Valinor
Feb 14 2013, 2:53pm
Post #30 of 145
(4630 views)
Shortcut
|
And the comment of looking down their noses is exactly what i meant.
Whenever there is a thread that is critical it instantly gets labelled negative and then people who love the movie look down their nose at those people like 'oh they just don't get it' etc. I would like to point out it can happen the other way as well but generally not so much. Take that thread the other day where the person said the movie sucked. OK he spoke in a way as to get a rise out of people - but i actually agreed with most of the comments if not the way they were said. But people came in and insulted him and looked down at him - dismissing his thoughts as they weren't 'positive'. If someone had written the same way but praising the film then everyone would have been welcoming etc - essentially some people are not open to critical debate of the film. Others i think are just as much 'trolls' but the other way - continual praise but with no explanation.
A good poster (hope its ok to say this) would be someone like AinurOlorin - says what they like/dislike in a respectful way but also explains why they think like that which is very helpful in seeing their point of view - to be fair many including yourself do that 
Also the amount of critical threads is far less than the number of less critical threads - why do people have to keep repeating their comments - well for both groups they like to share those opinions and thoughts. If that is how it is then a forum might as well just stop for talking about the movies as everyone has pretty much said what they think about the film so nothing more to talk about right? Over time the hobbit board will become like the lotr board - the odd post talking about it in a positive way - but ultimately it just ain't as good sadly.
Yes just because someone doesn't mention a scene doesn't mean it isn't annoying. But that is exactly what i was getting at - most people who either love the film, like the film, dont like it, or hate it - have very similar scenes that they DO like.
I find that very interesting as it shows that for us fans there are some parts he (PJ) got really right, others - not so much.
The difference between the faults you have with the film and the faults of others is yours are extremely minor - some troll snot, bird poop and that's about it. Now that is nothing really and genuinely i am pleased for you as you got to see another film you love and it fits in with your view of the work.
But if there is something bigger bothering you about the film - such as its over reliance on CGI or pace or colour grading for example - its harder to roll your eyes and just go with it as it is there throughout the whole film.
So it comes to scaling things as you say - for you there is almost no things you don't like, verses the massive amount you do like - therefore you like the film. For others there is a mixture of both - can see both positive and negative parts of the film (in their eyes) and then there are people who disliked a lot of the film and so have an overall disliking for the film.
As you say though this movie is not perfect. Neither is the lord of the rings films - i feel there are quite a few things wrong with them, especially in TTT and ROTK. For me with those films i do move closer to your view on this film as those things i dont like are balanced out by things i do like to the extent that i really enjoy those movies.
As i have said though i think (i truly hope) with the release of the EE's we will get more quiet moments/character moments (which for me anyway) will help it have a better pace/flow.
It is much better to try and not let the negatives engulf something - i think for me (and clearly a fair few) on this occasion there were just a few too many scenes not to their liking - perhaps this was due to emotional attachment to the hobbit from reading it as a child or not, i really dont know.
Still the books will always be there and as good as ever so it shouldn't get too serious in here, lol. As you say, better to just have fun
p.s. sorry for mini rant, lol.
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Feb 14 2013, 3:26pm
Post #31 of 145
(4614 views)
Shortcut
|
Take that thread the other day where the person said the movie sucked. OK he spoke in a way as to get a rise out of people
That is exactly it. I think constructive criticism is absolutely fine, but why do so many people these days come onto the boards of successful films just to say they don't like them, or that they 'suck' or are 'gay', etc? I would never post even on boards of films that I quite like (and easily forget), such as Avengers. (In fact I have only ever posted on boards for the Middle-Earth films.)
I know we are all different, but don't people have better things to do with their time? Do many people sit all day at their computers, iPhones and so on, posting on various boards just to get attention that is lacking in their lives? Is this one of the very negative consequences of the Internet and all the devices that people, including children, use these days? How much worse can it get?
Oh, and by the way, I really like the Goblin sequence, especially now that I have seen it a few times. I like the humour in it, the different fighting styles of the Dwarves, the fun element of the whole thing and the way the Goblin Town is depicted. I would certainly not like this film to be full of doom and gloom.
I think there were actually fewer things in this film that I disliked than is the case for the LOTR films.
Perhaps it also helps that I deliberately didn't reread the book before I saw the film. I did this before I saw FOTR and it was a mistake. I was baffled by the changes from the book on my first viewing of the film, and it was only when I saw it a second time that it 'clicked' – and FOTR is my favourite of the trilogy.
|
|
|
Elessar
Valinor
Feb 14 2013, 3:51pm
Post #32 of 145
(4566 views)
Shortcut
|
Whenever there is a thread that is critical it instantly gets labelled negative and then people who love the movie look down their nose at those people like 'oh they just don't get it' etc. I would like to point out it can happen the other way as well but generally not so much. Take that thread the other day where the person said the movie sucked. OK he spoke in a way as to get a rise out of people - but i actually agreed with most of the comments if not the way they were said. But people came in and insulted him and looked down at him - dismissing his thoughts as they weren't 'positive'. If someone had written the same way but praising the film then everyone would have been welcoming etc - essentially some people are not open to critical debate of the film. Others i think are just as much 'trolls' but the other way - continual praise but with no explanation.
Sure some will do that. I think though I think labeling it negative if there is an obvious movement to that or you can tell its just being negative to be negative. It can happen the otherway as you said but it doesn't happen as much because I think people generally want to talk about what they like. Insulting someone is not the way to be. I agree totally with you on that point. However, if you come in like that you better expect someone isn't going to hold back on you. Well, the thing is as I said people want to talk about what they liked about the film or another subject if it was different. So of course a positive thread is going to be welcomed more that should be expected. A fair ciritical thread (though I think this can just be done within a general thread) would be accepted (look at the thread started by issac) I agree some cannot take the critical debate and some cannot take seeing praise. You can only troll either way IMO if you go about insult or come across like a jerk with your posts. Its much easier to troll though in my experience posting on message boards if you have more of a negative attitude.
A good poster (hope its ok to say this) would be someone like AinurOlorin - says what they like/dislike in a respectful way but also explains why they think like that which is very helpful in seeing their point of view - to be fair many including yourself do that
I agree AO does a great job. He's a fun read and gives you well thought out ideas. He's one of my favorite reads on the board so I'm with ya. I agree again I think we have lots of folks here who explain things. It makes understanding their love or dislike much easier. I try. I'm probably not as good as most but my passion for Middle-earth is deep so I hope that comes across.
Also the amount of critical threads is far less than the number of less critical threads - why do people have to keep repeating their comments - well for both groups they like to share those opinions and thoughts. If that is how it is then a forum might as well just stop for talking about the movies as everyone has pretty much said what they think about the film so nothing more to talk about right? Over time the hobbit board will become like the lotr board - the odd post talking about it in a positive way - but ultimately it just ain't as good sadly.
I agree people love sharing their thoughts. I just prefer to see people putting thoughts all in the same thread. I don't know. I much prefer to talk about what I love about these films than really talk about what I don't.
Yes just because someone doesn't mention a scene doesn't mean it isn't annoying. But that is exactly what i was getting at - most people who either love the film, like the film, dont like it, or hate it - have very similar scenes that they DO like.
I agree again. There are scenes in ever movie a group of fans in general will like and of course not like.
The difference between the faults you have with the film and the faults of others is yours are extremely minor - some troll snot, bird poop and that's about it. Now that is nothing really and genuinely i am pleased for you as you got to see another film you love and it fits in with your view of the work.
Yes, the issues I have with the film are pretty minor. Thank you! I wish everyone felt the same. If I really sat down and wanted to be extra critical I could pick things I really don't like. Things like with The Lord of the Rings like Frodo showing the ring to a Ringwraith or Frodo sending Sam away. As a whole though I loved it a lot.
But if there is something bigger bothering you about the film - such as its over reliance on CGI or pace or colour grading for example - its harder to roll your eyes and just go with it as it is there throughout the whole film.
Yes and no. Like I said those two events with Frodo I really don't care for at all. At this point I know they're coming and so I deal with it. Obviously this is easier said than done but I felt like the CGI and Colour Grading was pretty darn good.
So it comes to scaling things as you say - for you there is almost no things you don't like, verses the massive amount you do like - therefore you like the film. For others there is a mixture of both - can see both positive and negative parts of the film (in their eyes) and then there are people who disliked a lot of the film and so have an overall disliking for the film.
Correct ones mileage will vary.
As i have said though i think (i truly hope) with the release of the EE's we will get more quiet moments/character moments (which for me anyway) will help it have a better pace/flow.
I do think the EE will be even better. I think we got a decent amount of those in the TE but I would take more in the EE. The Hobbit needs it to help felsh out so many characters.
It is much better to try and not let the negatives engulf something - i think for me (and clearly a fair few) on this occasion there were just a few too many scenes not to their liking - perhaps this was due to emotional attachment to the hobbit from reading it as a child or not, i really dont know.
Obviously some didn't care for a fwe things. I think it comes down to what you had built up in your mind more so than anything. I love Middle-earth and the world Tolkien created. So I feel its more that than attachment because I feel at this point I have a fairly strong announcement.
Still the books will always be there and as good as ever so it shouldn't get too serious in here, lol. As you say, better to just have fun
The books are amazing and will always offer exactly what people are looking for.
p.s. sorry for mini rant, lol.
No worries. 
|
|
|
Old Toby
Grey Havens
Feb 14 2013, 3:56pm
Post #33 of 145
(4635 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I guess my main dislike can be summed up in one word:
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Azog.
I have no problem with his feature as the Main Bad Dude in the film at all. I think what I dislike most about him is his physical appearance. I think he looked very CGI, although I know he was played in performance capture by Manu Bennett, somehow he didn't appear as 'real' looking to me as Gollum, for instance. Nor as 'real' looking as the rest of the orcs. Maybe it was his skin tone that didn't lend itself to looking very skin-like. And I hated the slashes all over his body (and the matching slashes on the body of his white warg). I kept thinking, "Where the heck did he get all those? Was he in some sort of orc-initiation ritual?" And his build was so WWF. Not that that in particular was a bad thing; it's my own dislike of the WWF thing.
Other than Azog, my other complaint was, as Roe said, the start of the credits, signaling the end of the movie! On the upside, I love the Lonely Mountains song that played during the credits. Only wish, like everyone else, there was a teaser trailer for the DOS at the end.
"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)
|
|
|
imin
Valinor
Feb 14 2013, 4:16pm
Post #34 of 145
(4585 views)
Shortcut
|
|
I think this was one mistake for me
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I really like the Goblin sequence, especially now that I have seen it a few times. I like the humour in it, the different fighting styles of the Dwarves, the fun element of the whole thing and the way the Goblin Town is depicted. I would certainly not like this film to be full of doom and gloom.
I think there were actually fewer things in this film that I disliked than is the case for the LOTR films.
Perhaps it also helps that I deliberately didn't reread the book before I saw the film. I did this before I saw FOTR and it was a mistake. I was baffled by the changes from the book on my first viewing of the film, and it was only when I saw it a second time that it 'clicked' – and FOTR is my favourite of the trilogy. I read the book just before seeing the film and although i did the same with lotr, i think having read the hobbit many more times at that point creating a much more definite world in my mind was hard to shake. Next time i will just go watch the film and then read the book some time after as i do each year (part of what makes xmas so great for me, lol). As for the goblin sequence - it's great you are enjoying it more and it would be wrong if the whole film was doom and gloom. For me though now on my 3/4th viewing i find them more annoying than i did when i first watched the films - for me the fighting they do just is not very interesting - its all too easy - they basically kill the orcs with a ladder, lol. For me though i dont think there is the options of either - as it is in the film, or doom and gloom. Surely there are other options in between those extremes? I think what you say about what are people doing with there time is a fair point, though i think the internet can get far worse. I myself think avengers was boring and i dont go onto messageboards saying as such, nor do i for any film that i dislike (i also dont for any film i do) - i do however take part in discussions about Tolkien's works and do this on a couple of sites. The films are but a part of that - so i like to talk about things more than just - this was great or this sucked. I think there is a difference for me and maybe others (between posting on here compared to posting about other films) is i'm a Tolkien enthusiast you could say and my love of Tolkien's works was around before the films and will be when they have faded I think for many here they feel the same - they like to discuss the movies and the books with people who all ultimately have some degree of fondness for Tolkien's works. Not many come on here to be honest and just say 'oh this film sucked' vast majority give reasons - however other sites like IMDB - the method of creating threads to troll people is common place and is frustrating if trying to find info on a film you are thinking about going to see. Ultimately it is hard to see eye to eye because if someone likes something, they for the most part just do and there is no one reason why, the same for others who dont like that very same thing - so no matter how we try to get others to see our point of view, the other people are mostly set in their view and won't change - but the beauty of forums is people will always try, lol.
|
|
|
Macfeast
Rohan
Feb 14 2013, 4:20pm
Post #35 of 145
(4582 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Why label it like that, "negativity for its own sake"?
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
There are plenty of good reasons to discuss the negatives. For my part, I have an interest in storytelling as a practice, no matter the medium, and I find negative threads (thoughtful and constructive threads, blatant trolling obviously aside) where people bring up flaws in the storytelling to be just as giving as positive threads; That's why I bring up negatives, and partake in discussions regarding them. Certainly I'm no storyteller, but even so, I find discussions along the lines of "they could have done it like this instead, and it wouldn't have hurt the story at all", or "the way they did this hurt the storytelling", to be just as interesting and giving as "the way they did this really improved the storytelling".
A good discussion, with well-formulated points and thoughtful, constructive debate, goes beyond labels like "positive thread" or "negative thread".
(This post was edited by Macfeast on Feb 14 2013, 4:30pm)
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Feb 14 2013, 4:45pm
Post #36 of 145
(4562 views)
Shortcut
|
I basically agree. I too love Tolkien's work and have read LOTR and the Hobbit many times (though I have not yet delved into the other related books).
To me, the books are one thing, the films another, and it is hard to reconcile the two in many areas. (I don't think any films will ever do that.) What the films do is to provide a wonderful impression of 'Middle-Earth', some great, well-realized characters (especially in the Hobbit), fabulous effects and a general, recognizable link to Tolkien's work. Overall, the films are breathtaking and touch the heart (or at least my heart). I would rather sit through one Hobbit film more times than I care to mention, than through the Avengers, Dark Knight Rises or Skyfalls just once (to name just a few recent films that I can take or leave).
(This post was edited by Glorfindela on Feb 14 2013, 4:47pm)
|
|
|
Kendalf
Rohan
Feb 14 2013, 5:09pm
Post #37 of 145
(4568 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Yep, the totally unnatural lighting was another...
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
Too many sunrises or sunsets, there were few shots where I could notice a real daylight.
Agreed. I think that (a) the desire to add a gold halo to objects in the foreground in order to enhance the 3D (b) the decision to rely so much on green-screen and (c) the fact that he had $500 million to spend meant that Jackson and Co. polished the film to within an inch of its life in search of some sort of visual nirvana.
The sad result of which was that not very much of it actually looked like it could be happening for real in the real world.
Hopefully future open-air locations like Esgaroth and the Desolation will rectify this and will have a more natural and therefore realistic and therefore believable appearance.
"I have found it is the small everyday deeds of ordinary folk that keep the darkness at bay. Small acts of kindness and love."
|
|
|
imin
Valinor
Feb 14 2013, 5:15pm
Post #38 of 145
(4529 views)
Shortcut
|
Like you i am hoping the greater amount of open air locations will change this - though obviously they could just change the sky/lighting afterwards. lol.
|
|
|
Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Feb 14 2013, 5:25pm
Post #39 of 145
(4519 views)
Shortcut
|
other " liked best thread" is positivity for its own sake?
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
|
|
|
Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Feb 14 2013, 5:27pm
Post #40 of 145
(4524 views)
Shortcut
|
i couldnt take another six hours of Azog throwing minions to the wolves and making ugly faces at me!
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
|
|
|
Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Feb 14 2013, 5:30pm
Post #41 of 145
(4512 views)
Shortcut
|
agree with everything you say, especially the Rivendell comment. Lifeless, sterile, cgi indested, ridiculous over the top colours, and not homely and bilboesque at all. Major disappointment.
Ori, i appreciate his personality as the wormy, nerdy dwarf, but his lines....oh dear..." have they got any chips?" seriously i wanted to send him to Moria right there so we dont have to endure his comedy routine for the next two films. 
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
|
|
|
Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Feb 14 2013, 5:37pm
Post #42 of 145
(4511 views)
Shortcut
|
Good point.
I think we say some daylight in the shire, but it was cloudy.
Some vistas when they are crossing the misty mountains.
Some in the prologue...
But i cant remember anything else.
Rivendell would have been a good place for this.
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
|
|
|
Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Feb 14 2013, 5:39pm
Post #43 of 145
(4507 views)
Shortcut
|
i think has been playing too many video games 
Stone giants and goblin town look like video game inspired sequences. Which is terrible since they could have been very powerefull scenes.
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
|
|
|
Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Feb 14 2013, 5:53pm
Post #44 of 145
(4510 views)
Shortcut
|
Ill sum it up : some fans dont like it when people attack their favourite movies because they find it hard to separate things. They feel as if its a personal attack on them. Only that can explain such a visceral reaction to people who dislike TH and are trying to express their disappointments.
Its not about negativity for its own sake, its not about sharpening the knives just because...many of us who are disappointed with this film were very ecstatic and excited about it.
I thought i was going to fall in love with the film. And i did...until the trolls scene. Then its just almost disappointments for me and that ruined the film for me. No movie can be considered great if only a third of said movie is good and the rest is just a mess.
Maybe the EE will fix some of these problems. I am hoping for it.
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
|
|
|
Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Feb 14 2013, 5:56pm
Post #45 of 145
(4524 views)
Shortcut
|
its the execution of the character, his time, the lines, that i dont appreciate. I just kept rolling my eyes.
Although the black speech was a great idea. It really adds to the Orc characters anothe rlevel of civilization and depth.
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
|
|
|
Lusitano
Tol Eressea
Feb 14 2013, 6:04pm
Post #46 of 145
(4565 views)
Shortcut
|
Too much, so little time.
Ill say i think its a pity that the rich history and dialogue from the Azanulbizar canon, hasnt been used. All those wonderfull orc lines at the gates were something i had hoped would find its way into the film.
Whats that story about a lady whose casting was turned down?
Vous commencez à m'ennuyer avec le port!!!
|
|
|
Salmacis81
Tol Eressea
Feb 14 2013, 6:06pm
Post #47 of 145
(4546 views)
Shortcut
|
|
Most of my complaints stem from the "fan-fiction" portions
[In reply to]
|
Can't Post
|
|
I'm fine with having Radagast be a small part of the story, especially since he wasn't even mentioned in the FOTR film. And I even kind of liked the portrayal of him (although the bird-crap and coughing-up-insects antics were a bit ridiculous). But giving him the role of finding the sickness in Dol Guldur totally messed up the Thrain/Gandalf connection. I'm very curious to see how they are going to handle this in DOS. Obviously, they're going to have to invent some more stuff. Just seems like a snowball that could have been avoided had they just stuck to the way Tolkien wrote it.
The Nazgul tomb thing, while only a very small part of AUJ, seemed like sloppy writing. I realize that a portion of the audience might not be aware that the Nazgul are incorporeal beings, but, and correct me if I'm wrong on this, didn't they establish that in the FOTR film? Going against the book universe is one thing, but PJ contradicted his own universe with that stuff.
The Azog stuff could have been handled differently IMO, but I understand the need for a defined villain that would have been absent had they not included him. It's more or less the fact that they used the name Azog for him that annoyed me in the beginning - if they'd have given his role to Bolg, I wouldn't have batted an eyelash. But I'm over that gripe.
Also, the first time I saw the film, I HATED the portrayal of the Great Goblin, but I've grown to kind of like it.
That's about it for me. No complaints about the pacing or the length - I could have easily sat and watched for another hour and not gotten bored.
|
|
|
Glorfindela
Valinor
Feb 14 2013, 6:13pm
Post #48 of 145
(4530 views)
Shortcut
|
No complaints about the pacing or the length - I could have easily sat and watched for another hour and not gotten bored.
Yes, I forgot to mention that it was too short. My reaction at the end of the film was 'is that it?'
|
|
|
Elessar
Valinor
Feb 14 2013, 6:29pm
Post #49 of 145
(4509 views)
Shortcut
|
Same here. I hate the waiting part. It was the worst part of The Lord of the Rings for me.
|
|
|
|
|
