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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Absolutely Horrid

GiantMushroomBear
Bree

Feb 6 2013, 10:45pm

Post #1 of 148 (3010 views)
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Absolutely Horrid Can't Post

I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this disgusting "film" is even remotely decent. Can you even call this garbage a film? Absolutely not! It's a disgrace to Tolkien's classic. A shameless cash grab trilogy, solely for the purpose of merchandising through cheap Lego toys and Denny's meals.
And speaking of which, WHY is it a trilogy? There is simply nowhere near enough material to justify THREE THREE HOUR LONG "films" even with the added stuff from the appendices, which only causes an unbalanced tone and useless exposition.
Just awful. -5/10, and that's being kind. One of the worst "films" ever made, save for The Last Airbender.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 6 2013, 10:54pm

Post #2 of 148 (1740 views)
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Apology accepted. [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice, illuminating, thoughtful first post. Thanks for sharing.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 6 2013, 10:56pm

Post #3 of 148 (1557 views)
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This thread shall be fun lol [In reply to] Can't Post

I disagree, i think it has many flaws, particularly post trolls but i find it hardlly one of the worst films ever made, plenty of garbage out there that is better suited for such a qualification.

What did you think of the first hour?

And welcomeSmile

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Feb 6 2013, 10:57pm)


GothmogTheBalrog
Rivendell


Feb 6 2013, 10:57pm

Post #4 of 148 (1544 views)
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Lotta hate and no reasons. [In reply to] Can't Post

Can you tell us why this movie is such a piece of garbage? You do know the definition of film, right? Why isn't there enough material for three films? I need info. Not rants.

"It was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man shape maybe, yet greater; and a power and terror seemed to be in it and go before it." ~FotR


Lindele
Gondor


Feb 6 2013, 11:04pm

Post #5 of 148 (1492 views)
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HOLD ON [In reply to] Can't Post

one of the worst films ever made yet you give it a 5/10?
NOT BAD!!!!
Or was that a negative 5? I can't tell.

...and it is regrettable that you fail to see how this film is even remotely decent, truly sad.


Steven Van der Berg
Rivendell


Feb 6 2013, 11:04pm

Post #6 of 148 (1484 views)
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Think I've seen this username trolling on IMDB. N/T [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Gorbag
Rivendell


Feb 6 2013, 11:06pm

Post #7 of 148 (1489 views)
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Im sorry, but this made me laugh out loud. [In reply to] Can't Post

Each to their own and all that, but i found your venomous hate towards the film rather silly.

One of the worst films ever made? Please..... you know thats nonsense.

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 6 2013, 11:07pm

Post #8 of 148 (1446 views)
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LMAO. Then surely you hated all of the Rings adaptations as well. The opening 40 minutes to an hour of this movie [In reply to] Can't Post

were magnificent (minus the overuse of Frodo). Short of seeing the Dragon in his fullness, one could hardly have asked for a more well delivered Erebor scene. The Unexpected party was VERY true to the book, and was chillingly wondrous in its use of the Lonely Mountain song.

There were flaws in this film. For me they came mainly in the form of the major deviations from the actual appendices, though Rings was certainly not void of departures either. The troll snot and the bird dung were over the top, and I could have done without them. But they were hardly deal breakers. Hardly a minority in sight, but again, see also The Rings trilogy.

There was a lighter tone, but it fit, and it was appropriate, this being The Hobbit not The Return of The King. Each to his own, but this film was better than The Avengers, which was quite enjoyable.

In Reply To
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this disgusting "film" is even remotely decent. Can you even call this garbage a film? Absolutely not! It's a disgrace to Tolkien's classic. A shameless cash grab trilogy, solely for the purpose of merchandising through cheap Lego toys and Denny's meals.
And speaking of which, WHY is it a trilogy? There is simply nowhere near enough material to justify THREE THREE HOUR LONG "films" even with the added stuff from the appendices, which only causes an unbalanced tone and useless exposition.
Just awful. -5/10, and that's being kind. One of the worst "films" ever made, save for The Last Airbender.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


Alassa Eruvande
Valinor


Feb 6 2013, 11:09pm

Post #9 of 148 (1462 views)
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I beg to differ. [In reply to] Can't Post

Legos are not cheap!

Tongue



I am SMAUG! I kill when I wish! I am strong, strong, STRONG!
My armor is like tenfold shields! My teeth like swords! My claws, spears!
The shock of my tail, a thunderbolt! My wings, a hurricane! And my breath, death!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 6 2013, 11:09pm

Post #10 of 148 (1446 views)
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As strange as it may [In reply to] Can't Post

sound to a rolkien fan, some people regard TH as a truly horrid film. And im not talking about trolls, normal people with opinions.

Earlier today someone i know expressed his dislike of TH in no kinder a manner than this poster : one of the worst films he had ever seen.

Exotic for me, of course, but its interetsing to hear how he hated the dwarves and halfway through the film he was already rooting for the whole company to die screaming. Unimpressed

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 6 2013, 11:10pm

Post #11 of 148 (1415 views)
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Negative 5 out of 10 (-5/10). ;) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Ardamr
Valinor


Feb 6 2013, 11:15pm

Post #12 of 148 (1378 views)
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Mods up! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

There's a sad sort of clanging from the clock in the hall and the bells in the steeple, too.
And up in the nursery an absurd little bird is popping out to say coo-coo (coo-coo, coo-coo).


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 6 2013, 11:16pm

Post #13 of 148 (1481 views)
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Really? [In reply to] Can't Post

Crazy

PREPARE FOR BATTLE!

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 6 2013, 11:18pm

Post #14 of 148 (1425 views)
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Worst of the best if you will. [In reply to] Can't Post

Would it be fair to say "worst of the top 10 most highly anticipated films of the past decade?"

or what about "Worst of all films with budgets over $200m?"

Both could mean it is still better than the average film.

Achieving "worst film of all time," would take some doing I should think.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 6 2013, 11:21pm

Post #15 of 148 (1393 views)
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Ed Wood [In reply to] Can't Post

might have something to say about that! Wink

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


guitarzankansasfan
Lorien


Feb 6 2013, 11:21pm

Post #16 of 148 (1423 views)
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Now I'm really mad!!! [In reply to] Can't Post

I can't believe you would talk about The Last Airbender that way!! That was the best film that M. Night Shyamalan released that whole year!

...a far green country under a swift sunrise. As the ship approached the edge of the world and the undying lands came into view, Frodo could not help but wonder: "How long? How long? How long to the Point of Know Return?


Gorbag
Rivendell


Feb 6 2013, 11:29pm

Post #17 of 148 (1361 views)
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The Last Airbender comment also deeply offended me.// [In reply to] Can't Post

 

I don't know half of you half as well as I should like; and I like less than half of you half as well as you deserve. - J.R.R. Tolkien, The Fellowship of the Ring


Bombadil
Half-elven


Feb 6 2013, 11:32pm

Post #18 of 148 (1374 views)
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Wha. .The...? [In reply to] Can't Post

Bomby has met plenty of people
who go though life...

" Prepared To be
disappointed.."


Loresilme
Valinor


Feb 6 2013, 11:32pm

Post #19 of 148 (1469 views)
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lol - nice reference :-) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Oin's parasite
Rivendell


Feb 6 2013, 11:35pm

Post #20 of 148 (1381 views)
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"There is no need to get angry..." [In reply to] Can't Post

 

"I've got parasites as big as my arm!"


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 6 2013, 11:37pm

Post #21 of 148 (1344 views)
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I distinctly saw directed by Alan Smithee during the credit roll. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 6 2013, 11:42pm

Post #22 of 148 (1344 views)
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Which movie, TH? [In reply to] Can't Post

Or one of Ed Woods?

Cant be TH Tongue

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 6 2013, 11:43pm

Post #23 of 148 (1328 views)
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I agree! [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you looked at the LOTR Lego sets recently? Sheesh! Arm and a leg, I'm tellin' ya.


Carne
Tol Eressea

Feb 6 2013, 11:44pm

Post #24 of 148 (1346 views)
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S/he is only trying [In reply to] Can't Post

 to rail up people.


(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 3:13am)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 6 2013, 11:44pm

Post #25 of 148 (1074 views)
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And, and [In reply to] Can't Post

It's definitely in the top 10 films featuring Jackson Rathbone... Cool


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 6 2013, 11:49pm

Post #26 of 148 (821 views)
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If you swim with sharks, you're gonna get burned [In reply to] Can't Post

er I mean "don't play with me cuz you play with fire?"

this is a fun thread!Laugh

(no of course not the hobbit!)


Rostron2
Gondor


Feb 6 2013, 11:49pm

Post #27 of 148 (811 views)
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I can already hear the sound [In reply to] Can't Post

of an IP address being blocked


andwise
Rivendell


Feb 6 2013, 11:56pm

Post #28 of 148 (786 views)
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oh dear.... [In reply to] Can't Post

Oh dear oh dear oh Deary Deary me.......

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


GothmogTheBalrog
Rivendell


Feb 6 2013, 11:56pm

Post #29 of 148 (801 views)
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So, [In reply to] Can't Post

think this mushroombear has any reasons for all the hate?

"It was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man shape maybe, yet greater; and a power and terror seemed to be in it and go before it." ~FotR


Magpie
Immortal


Feb 7 2013, 12:05am

Post #30 of 148 (855 views)
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no, please... [In reply to] Can't Post

we don't battle here on TORn.

Playful punning maybe. Ignoring, mostly.


LOTR soundtrack website ~ magpie avatar gallery
TORn History Mathom-house ~ Torn Image Posting Guide


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 7 2013, 12:18am

Post #31 of 148 (764 views)
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You are [In reply to] Can't Post

dangerous Shocked

I said this was going to be a fun ride.Wink

If he replies, this will reach hilarious level.


Not even bad taste Tongue

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 7 2013, 12:19am

Post #32 of 148 (824 views)
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Excuse my [In reply to] Can't Post

fervent idealismTongue


I shall send my Rabbit Squad away...

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 7 2013, 12:20am

Post #33 of 148 (781 views)
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If he actually means what he days [In reply to] Can't Post

then yes.

If hes a troll, just trolling for trollings sake, then no.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Feb 7 2013, 12:23am

Post #34 of 148 (757 views)
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Meow! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 7 2013, 12:25am

Post #35 of 148 (752 views)
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Love your [In reply to] Can't Post

avatar! I have seen some really cute Bilbo drawings recently.

Saw a Bilbo Le Hobbit pocketbook today at a bookstore.Smile

Ha, just discovered this website :

http://dirtyhobbitconfessions.tumblr.com/

Be warned, sexual innuendo.Laugh Now what would Prof Tolkien say about this? Unimpressed This hobbit craze is really reaching new peaks.

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Feb 7 2013, 12:32am)


Escapist
Gondor


Feb 7 2013, 12:29am

Post #36 of 148 (749 views)
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This thread makes me want to play madlibs. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm __<adjective>, but I fail to see how this __<adjective> "film" is even remotely decent. Can you even call this __<noun> a film? __<expression>! It's a disgrace to Tolkien's __<noun>. A shameless cash grab __<noun>, solely for the purpose of __<verb> through cheap Lego toys and Denny's meals.
And speaking of which, WHY is it a __<noun>? There is simply nowhere near enough __<noun> to justify THREE THREE HOUR LONG "films" even with the added stuff from the __<noun>, which only causes an unbalanced tone and useless exposition.
Just __<adjective>. __<number>, and that's being __<adjective>. One of the worst "films" ever made, save for __<film>.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Feb 7 2013, 12:31am

Post #37 of 148 (749 views)
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Thanks! :) [In reply to] Can't Post

It's not mine (I wish!), but cropped from a larger picture. Here's the link to the page, scroll down for the images(I like to give proper credit) :

http://nerdpipo.tumblr.com/page/3


'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


(This post was edited by Aragalen the Green on Feb 7 2013, 12:31am)


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Feb 7 2013, 12:33am

Post #38 of 148 (731 views)
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Mmmm....Denny's....(NT) [In reply to] Can't Post

Tongue

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 7 2013, 12:34am

Post #39 of 148 (717 views)
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Youre welcome Aragalen [In reply to] Can't Post

Those are so infantile and Squeeeee inducing! Wink Love the individual dwarves.

Haha. The external drives drawing is hilarious and so true! Mad

"My portable external HDD was gone. it doesnt work anymore

and I lost my files-my portfolio for my drawing and works while 4 years-, movie, tvshow etc even I didnt back-up!!! "

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Feb 7 2013, 12:36am)


ryouko
Lorien

Feb 7 2013, 12:37am

Post #40 of 148 (713 views)
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ooh!! [In reply to] Can't Post

Thanks for the link! They are all so cute! Blush


Eowyn3
Rivendell

Feb 7 2013, 12:59am

Post #41 of 148 (749 views)
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What can men do against such reckless hate? [In reply to] Can't Post

 


GiantMushroomBear
Bree

Feb 7 2013, 1:09am

Post #42 of 148 (830 views)
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Tell me, now. [In reply to] Can't Post

When did speaking one's mind become trolling? Just as others have the right to express their love for the "film," I have the right to express my distaste. And I shall.
For one thing, why does Radagast the Brown have to exist? He is such an annoying, atrocious, despicable character. WORSE than Jar Jar Binks. And why on Earth is there bird feces in his hair? WHY!? There is simply no getting around the fact that matter excreted from a bird's rectum IS IN HIS HAIR!! I AM AWARE THAT THE HOBBIT IS A LIGHTER BOOK THAN LORD OF THE RINGS. THEY DID NOT NEED TO CONVEY THIS USING BIRD POOP!!
I believe that someone else mentioned that their friend wanted to kill all the dwarves. Yet, how can you want to kill someone who you don't know? This film doesn't know whether it's main focus is on Bilbo or the thirteen dwarves. It tries to handle both, and fails miserably, as both the dwarves AND Bilbo are all awful characters who undergo little to no development.


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 7 2013, 1:10am

Post #43 of 148 (704 views)
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Menfolk can go off and do...something manly... [In reply to] Can't Post

We womenfolk can sit back and laugh. Or ignore it. Actually, the menfolk can laugh with us if they want, they just ought to put down their spears and swords first.

C'mon, have some popcorn.


Eowyn3
Rivendell

Feb 7 2013, 1:18am

Post #44 of 148 (716 views)
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I believe the use of caps is like shouting at other people. [In reply to] Can't Post

Not very nice.Unsure


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 7 2013, 1:20am

Post #45 of 148 (735 views)
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Is it dawn yet? [In reply to] Can't Post

*yawwwwn* I think I see the first rays of sunlight coming...

Still, nothing wrong with an early morning drink.

*glug*


Bombadil
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 1:43am

Post #46 of 148 (674 views)
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Ro!... Dawn..Turned Into Stone...?. [In reply to] Can't Post

  

BraHHaaa...


(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 3:17am)


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 1:45am

Post #47 of 148 (667 views)
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indeed! [In reply to] Can't Post

Take the dwarves off the spit and put Bifur's pants back on. No breakfast here.

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 7 2013, 1:57am

Post #48 of 148 (641 views)
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[crazy] [In reply to] Can't Post

Crazy

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Glum
Bree

Feb 7 2013, 1:59am

Post #49 of 148 (746 views)
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??? [In reply to] Can't Post

How do you know there isn't enough material for three movies? Have you seen the whole triology? I think it's too early for complaints like this...


sevilodorf
Grey Havens


Feb 7 2013, 2:30am

Post #50 of 148 (734 views)
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Been eating too many giant mushrooms, bear. [In reply to] Can't Post

It's affecting your judgment..... especially avoid those in Mirkwood.

Fourth Age Adventures at the Inn of the Burping Troll http://burpingtroll.com





SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 3:08am

Post #51 of 148 (725 views)
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Tis a nice change of pace is all, and a bit of fun at that. [In reply to] Can't Post

we have so few nonsense threads these days. As Tim would say, "why so serious?" Cool


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 7 2013, 3:34am

Post #52 of 148 (705 views)
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Actually, it might be more entertaining [In reply to] Can't Post

if we leave Bifur's pants off.

Not sure where I'm going with that one, though...


GothmogTheBalrog
Rivendell


Feb 7 2013, 4:13am

Post #53 of 148 (676 views)
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Nonsense threads [In reply to] Can't Post

I can deal with those.

Hey, Mushroombear, Radagast actually is part of Tolkien's works. A lot of people thought that the Dwarves were excellently done. Also,TH:AUJ is obviously about Bilbo, who was a magnificent character.

"It was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man shape maybe, yet greater; and a power and terror seemed to be in it and go before it." ~FotR


Kangi Ska
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 4:34am

Post #54 of 148 (672 views)
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Which movie are you disparaging? [In reply to] Can't Post

I can ot be "The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey" as it has none of the qualities you attribute to it. You must have gotten in the wrong theater by mistake. That is really too bad. My heart goes out to you.


Kangi Ska Resident Trickster & Wicked White Crebain
Life is an adventure, not a contest.

At night you can not tell if crows are black or white.
Photobucket



JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Feb 7 2013, 4:56am

Post #55 of 148 (653 views)
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Legos [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
Legos are not cheap!

Tongue

As a parent, I can vouch for this. Legos are not cheap.

I liked the movie, except for three things: The CGI Bridge, Thorin's fake-out anger hug, and... something else I'm forgetting.

Me thinks thou (the OP) protests too much.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Feb 7 2013, 4:59am

Post #56 of 148 (660 views)
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Best Shyamamamamalalalan Of The Year [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I can't believe you would talk about The Last Airbender that way!! That was the best film that M. Night Shyamalan released that whole year!

The best Shyamalanalalalananan movie of the year? You do know, don't you, that we can take that claim in a couple of different ways. Yes, I think you do know that.


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Feb 7 2013, 5:08am

Post #57 of 148 (657 views)
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Ride My Seesaw [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
When did speaking one's mind become trolling? Just as others have the right to express their love for the "film," I have the right to express my distaste. And I shall.
For one thing, why does Radagast the Brown have to exist? He is such an annoying, atrocious, despicable character. WORSE than Jar Jar Binks. And why on Earth is there bird feces in his hair? WHY!? There is simply no getting around the fact that matter excreted from a bird's rectum IS IN HIS HAIR!! I AM AWARE THAT THE HOBBIT IS A LIGHTER BOOK THAN LORD OF THE RINGS. THEY DID NOT NEED TO CONVEY THIS USING BIRD POOP!!
I believe that someone else mentioned that their friend wanted to kill all the dwarves. Yet, how can you want to kill someone who you don't know? This film doesn't know whether it's main focus is on Bilbo or the thirteen dwarves. It tries to handle both, and fails miserably, as both the dwarves AND Bilbo are all awful characters who undergo little to no development.


LOL. Well, to answer your question and rather extreme stated distaste for the movie with a metaphor, it does really seem that you are sitting as far back on the seesaw as you can just to let it go and watch everyone fall.

Thanks for reminding me of Radajar. That was the third thing I didn't like about the film that I couldn't remember in my other comment above. Peter Jackson can easily get really juvenile at times. Kinda like kids on seesaws who just want a reaction. But agreed - the undignified gross mischaracterization of Jargast was an insult to the Istari.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Feb 7 2013, 5:16am)


Old Toby
Grey Havens


Feb 7 2013, 5:27am

Post #58 of 148 (647 views)
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Now wait just a cotton-pickin' minute [In reply to] Can't Post

I take umbrage at your disparaging remark about Denny's!Evil

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 7 2013, 5:34am

Post #59 of 148 (696 views)
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New, improved version of original post! [In reply to] Can't Post

I took all words in the original post for this thread, sorted them in absolute statistically random order, and the result is what you see below. I added punctuation and capital letters where they seemed good to me. I suggest this is an improvement.

***********

Is fail "films", and which causes with "films" the meals merchandising. Why only you "film" this to see? I ever film this trilogy, which a solely three, even it's -5/10. An for that's three of material and a simply classic from Tolkien's long added one stuff. And being grab garbage hour, I'm just awful not enough the to near shameless for of even appendices the remotely a there kind call. The even useless Lego is unbalanced purpose disgusting. Speaking of how disgrace ,worst one made and it to justify save cheap exposition absolutely cash trilogy a is nowhere "The Last Airbender", but decent can-toys through sorry Denny's.


GothmogTheBalrog
Rivendell


Feb 7 2013, 5:37am

Post #60 of 148 (650 views)
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You actually spent time doing that? [In reply to] Can't Post

That's pretty funny. Much better than the original post.

"It was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man shape maybe, yet greater; and a power and terror seemed to be in it and go before it." ~FotR


Old Toby
Grey Havens


Feb 7 2013, 5:42am

Post #61 of 148 (656 views)
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What's frightening is.... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think this actually makes sense to me! Tongue

"Age is always advancing and I'm fairly sure it's up to no good." Harry Dresden (Jim Butcher)


Arandiel
Grey Havens

Feb 7 2013, 5:50am

Post #62 of 148 (621 views)
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Ummm... possibly off to start a pants thread? :) // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


Walk to Rivendell: There and Back Again Challenge - traveling through Middle Earth with thirteen rowdy Dwarves, one grumpy Wizard, and a beleaguered Hobbit

Join us, Thursdays on Main!


Roheryn
Grey Havens

Feb 7 2013, 6:55am

Post #63 of 148 (612 views)
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Excel is my friend. [In reply to] Can't Post

I was curious whether random order would improve things, and I think it does.


peace1993
Bree


Feb 7 2013, 7:11am

Post #64 of 148 (650 views)
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His name says it all [In reply to] Can't Post

It is his excessive consumption of mushrooms. They have addled his brain and yellowed his teeth.

Sam: Trust a Brandybuck and a Took.
Merry: What? That was just a detour, a shortcut.
Sam: Shortcut to what?
Pippin: Mushrooms!


jtarkey
Rohan


Feb 7 2013, 10:21am

Post #65 of 148 (572 views)
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It's funny that a post like this is getting so much attention [In reply to] Can't Post

But I have to admit, It's actually nice for me to see someone bashing this movie. It really seems like a lot of people on this board are willing to turn a blind eye to all the films faults simply because it is The Hobbit. While I enjoy the film a lot, I feel it has huge cinematic shortcomings that most "non fans" can pick up on right away. Usually, people around here are lambasted for expressing their distaste with the film. I'll give the OP props for turning the tables.

His points are valid as far as I'm concerned. The way he expressed those points is another story. Gotta give it to him. He made a successful thread.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


GiantMushroomBear
Bree

Feb 7 2013, 10:51am

Post #66 of 148 (616 views)
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If the "film"... [In reply to] Can't Post

...wasn't called "The Hobbit", but the plot and events were all the same, would you still like it? I can guarantee that if this were just some kids' fantasy "film", you would all recognize it for the silly, bloated, tonally inconsistent garbage pile it is.

And I'm the troll? Look at some of the posts on this board!


peace1993
Bree


Feb 7 2013, 10:52am

Post #67 of 148 (563 views)
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The thing is that [In reply to] Can't Post

criticism should be carried out in a constructive manner. Loads of people have expressed their dislikes about the film over the last two months and none of them were lambasted. The site is said to have been forged by and for fans of Middle-Earth. Mr/Mrs BigMushroomBear doesn't sound like a fan, just someone who has posted to get some attention and make the real fans go haywire with madness!!

Sam: Trust a Brandybuck and a Took.
Merry: What? That was just a detour, a shortcut.
Sam: Shortcut to what?
Pippin: Mushrooms!

(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 3:25am)


jimmyfenn
Rohan


Feb 7 2013, 10:53am

Post #68 of 148 (564 views)
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ouch [In reply to] Can't Post

We must accept that some people think hobbits are stupid and really wouldnt want to see this film.

now accepting that its not a bad film, it is a run of the mill action flick, with cheesy lines and predictable narrative.

the thing that i love about the film is its visuals,the story that its based on, that i love, and some great individual actors doing some cool stuff. cool cgi, new technology, and general overall fantasy loveliness!

i do feel now del toro might have made a much more interesting introspective coming of age type film, somehting with a bit more substance, but ill take this romp for now!

also the merchandising and general hollywoodness of this franchise is sickening! euurgghh

"You Tolkien to me?!" - Hobbit de Niro

(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 3:32am)


GiantMushroomBear
Bree

Feb 7 2013, 11:00am

Post #69 of 148 (597 views)
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Simple math [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
How do you know there isn't enough material for three movies? Have you seen the whole triology? I think it's too early for complaints like this...


This isn't rocket science.

LOTR-1500 pages-3 movies.
TH-300 pages-3 movies?

It's so obviously a cash grab, and I feel so sorry for anyone else who doesn't realize this! Frown


jtarkey
Rohan


Feb 7 2013, 11:16am

Post #70 of 148 (544 views)
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I've been personally attacked for expressing my problems with the film [In reply to] Can't Post

And I've seen it happen to other posters as well. I'm a fan of both the LOTR film trilogy and all of Tolkien's books. I'm also a big movie buff, and for me, the film has a lot of problems as a piece of cinematic story telling. I feel more inclined to comment on the negatives because there are so many threads here that praise the film.

There are a ton of things I love about it simply because I am a fan of Tolkien. As a fan of film as well, this movie fails in a lot of ways. A lot of fans can't seem to put all the pieces together. The film has received very mixed reviews. It hasn't been nominated for any major awards. This is not due to the difference in narrative from LOTR. In my heart, I feel it just wasn't executed as well.

As I've said before, a film doesn't need to have apocalyptic themes to succeed. I can think of countless films made for children that resonate with people of all ages on a creative and emotional level. For me, AUJ does not do this very well. It has it's high points, and it's VERY low points. It's really just an alright film that I happen to like because I'm a Tolkien fan.

This is simply my opinion. Once again, the OP is out of line. But he has some valid points that everyone outside of the Tolkien community seems to recognize.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


peace1993
Bree


Feb 7 2013, 11:30am

Post #71 of 148 (550 views)
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You are just skimming the surface and complaining [In reply to] Can't Post

Its all about the difference in narrative styles. The Hobbit being a children's book is pretty straight forward in it's narration. The characters are not fleshed out and a lot of scenes are not described in detail. However, LOTR is meant for a much more mature audience. Hence, there are a lot more details and imagery along with plenty of character development.
Consider this: If The Silmarillion was brought on-screen, they would have to make at least 20 movies, even though the book is only 365 pages long.

Sam: Trust a Brandybuck and a Took.
Merry: What? That was just a detour, a shortcut.
Sam: Shortcut to what?
Pippin: Mushrooms!

(This post was edited by peace1993 on Feb 7 2013, 11:36am)


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea

Feb 7 2013, 11:33am

Post #72 of 148 (540 views)
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Im gonna do... [In reply to] Can't Post

A negative thread, and I hope you and the rest that didnt like the film, will be able to expres with respect our complains, check out the boards

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


jtarkey
Rohan


Feb 7 2013, 12:01pm

Post #73 of 148 (692 views)
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This is what I'm talking about exactly. [In reply to] Can't Post

I explicitly stated that this is simply my opinion of the film. I'm certainly not skimming the surface. Let me use an example...

The first Land Before Time film is a cartoon made for children. It has talking dinosaurs, and improbable scenarios. The main characters want to find a new home. Does that sound familiar?

I love that film as an adult just as much as I did when I was a kid. It has a strong narrative, and an emotional pull that appeals to audiences of all ages.

I like to feel I am intelligently stating my opinions, and not attacking people who love the film. I also love a lot of things about it. But IN MY OPINION, the film could have done a better job at drawing in a general movie-going audience. If the production was able to invent story-lines and characters that didn't exist in the original book, then they could have invented an emotional pull to the film as well. But they didn't. They went for action, CGI, and silliness instead.

I actually love children's books and films because they are able to portray basic human emotion in a very clever way. AUJ did not do this for me. So the argument that the difference in narratives means The Hobbit needs to be dumbed down is not valid for me.

"You're love of the halflings leaf has clearly slowed your mind"


Angharad73
Rohan

Feb 7 2013, 12:58pm

Post #74 of 148 (656 views)
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Fine by me... [In reply to] Can't Post

So you didn't like the movie. That's ok. Everyone is entitled to their very own opinion. You got yours, I got mine. I loved the movie. If that, in some people's opinion, makes me a dumb bunny or whatever, I can live with that. I'll still go and see the other two movies, and I'm sure I'll enjoy them just as much as the first. Cool


Radagast-Aiwendil
Gondor


Feb 7 2013, 12:59pm

Post #75 of 148 (648 views)
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If you don't mind I'm just going to give Gandalf a ring, so he can turn you to stone!// [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh

"These are Gundabad Wargs! They will outrun you!"

"THESE are Rhosgobel Rabbits! I'd like to see them try...."



(This post was edited by Radagast-Aiwendil on Feb 7 2013, 1:01pm)


Estel78
Tol Eressea

Feb 7 2013, 1:00pm

Post #76 of 148 (629 views)
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I do have problems with the film [In reply to] Can't Post

But here i gotta disagree. The losing home is a reoccurring theme in the movie and by emphasizing that they create an emotional pull that the book doesn't. Of course some of the silliness then undermines it.


In Reply To
I like to feel I am intelligently stating my opinions, and not attacking people who love the film. I also love a lot of things about it. But IN MY OPINION, the film could have done a better job at drawing in a general movie-going audience. If the production was able to invent story-lines and characters that didn't exist in the original book, then they could have invented an emotional pull to the film as well. But they didn't. They went for action, CGI, and silliness instead.



sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Feb 7 2013, 2:56pm

Post #77 of 148 (574 views)
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Yes, I think I would! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm a huge fan not only of Peter Jackson, but also of the other talent working on the movie, especially Howard Shore, Alan Lee and John Howe. And it's their work that I mainly appreciate about the movie.

You may call it "silly bloated garbage", but let's see you write a score as good or design environments & creatures as beautiful as the people mentioned above. A LOT of work goes into a movie like this, if they wanted Money, they'd just put the latest popular star in it and slap on some trendy music with pop culture references. You don't design Bag End with as much verisimilitude as possible or strive to create the best Dragon yet put on film or tackle the challenge of fourteen plus protagonists in a three hour movie for Money. This is all done for the sake of creating a good film.

YOU may not like the end result, which is perfectly fine, we all have different tastes and preferences (I can't stand Picasso!), and for that matter AUJ doesn't live up to my mental image of the book (there's a lot there I'd have done differently). But it doesn't mean that it's a bad film or that there isn't a lot of beauty in it. If you can't see it, well, I think it's your lack of perception. If you have specific criticisms about the movie laid out in a thorough and thoughtful post, that'd be actually something valuable and worth reading. Just calling a film "money grabbing garbage" doesn't cut it.


Mr. Arkenstone (isaac)
Tol Eressea

Feb 7 2013, 3:21pm

Post #78 of 148 (553 views)
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well the diference [In reply to] Can't Post

Is that some if not many of those places have worked in the past for milions, and they knew people would like both places and music, and thats what we get. Except Erebor there is no new big deal.

The flagon with the dragon has the brew that is true!


xxxyyy
Rohan

Feb 7 2013, 3:25pm

Post #79 of 148 (557 views)
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Don't worry, everyone fails once in a lifetime. [In reply to] Can't Post

 

http://energyfromthorium.com/


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Feb 7 2013, 3:37pm

Post #80 of 148 (545 views)
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Okay, sport [In reply to] Can't Post

you say that there is no character development. Sorry, you are wrong. By the end of AUJ, Bilbo is already a somewhat different hobbit than he started out as being. And we see Thorin warming to the hafling. And we still have the second and third films to go (keeping in mind that the character arcs for our two main leads are already pretty much set in stone by Tolkien).

Sure, some elements are over-the-top--troll-snot, the stone-giants, the Goblin King--but I expect some of that from Peter Jackson.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 3:18am)


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Feb 7 2013, 3:38pm

Post #81 of 148 (571 views)
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You certainly do have a right to express your opinions [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
When did speaking one's mind become trolling? Just as others have the right to express their love for the "film," I have the right to express my distaste. And I shall.

You certainly do have a right to express your opinions, and that is one of the reasons this is called a "discussion board". It also means that others have a right to express their opinions on your opinion. That's what makes it fun. You certainly have gotten a successful thread here, judging by the number of views!

I will point out however, that the definition of "troll" (from Wikipedia) is: "In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts inflammatory, extraneous, or off-topic messages in an online community, such as a forum, chat room, or blog, with the primary intent of provoking readers."(underlines mine). Your original post is a sweeping statement of negativity, without redeeming itself through thoughtful, reasoned explanations of what you didn't like; such as:

Quote
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this disgusting "film" is even remotely decent. Can you even call this garbage a film?

I would call this inflammatory, and that is why most of the responses are knee-jerk reactions (sorry friends!). I would highly recommend reading other threads to see why others do and don't like the film, and their thoughtful, reasoned explanations. It may help explain why others here are reacting in such a defensive manner. When someone attacks, the instinct is to attack back or become defensive. If you would like serious feedback, tactful wording of your thoughts may give you the results you want. That's not to say that everyone is thoughtful and tactful, just that the most successful discussions are those with clear views and opinions without attacking why others like something another person may not.

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 3:19am)


pettytyrant101
Lorien


Feb 7 2013, 3:44pm

Post #82 of 148 (556 views)
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For me there are two issues here- [In reply to] Can't Post

the first is that there is certainly a perception that it is very hard on ToRn to offer any sort of complaint of PJ's Tolkien based works without what has occured here happening: 3 pages of people shouting down the OP, calling them a troll (I was accused of this myself in the past), or making silly statements that imply thinking PJ did a less than stellar job means you dont think anyone invovled with the film did anything right or were any good.

There is a good reason ToRn has a reputaion as being the home of PJ fan boys who will not tolerate any negativity about their favourite films- this thread rather indicates why that reputation persists, even if it might not be strictly true.


The second point is the problems with the films themselves.

I would agree that the OP post was not the most diplomatically worded OP ever, but that does not make the points or post, or opinion invalid either.
In my view there is much to complain about in PJ's films, particuarly as adaptations of the source material, but also just as films.
Which brings me to TH.

It is in my view a very average film that could have been a timeless classic film.
But somehow it is not, I think even the most vervant PJ fan here would not claim TH was the greatest film of all time, or even one of the greatest childrens films of all time. (I would agrue PJ's verion is not even suitable for the target audience of the book)

So the question then is why is not a classic film?
Well it is almost exaclty split 50/50 between an adaptation of the book and stuff PJ made up.

Claims that he was drawing on the appendix ect had some limited credibility before we had all seen the film, but it has vey little now we have as nothing has survived even close to intact from the appendix without huge alterations in service of the stuff PJ has made up.

Those additions PJ has made, particuarly the very artificial (in practise, feel and look) insertion of Azog into the story to give it more impetus is pretty disasterous.

During these parts PJ tries to recreate a tone suited to his LotR's film, but he has to sit it alongside whimsical moment like the Crack the Plates song. And it does not work well at all I would say, as the two tones clash from the off.

And that is leaving aside the way Azog just pops up whenever the script needs him without otherwise any rymne nor reason, nor the subpar pulp fantasy book dialogue.

I also think the opening prolgue was a mistake- I do think having old Bilbo narrate was a good idea, this is in keeping with the narrators voice present throughout the book and the conceit Tolkien got it all from the Redbook- but all the Erebor and Dale stuff, whilst pretty and bombastic is completely the wrong mood to begin TH with, Bilbo is an unsuitable narrator for that information, and its irrelevant because all the information divulged in it comes out in the telling of the story later anyway.

Its main purpose seems to be to have a big opening to the film wih some action and lots of effects. That seems to fit in with PJ's view, expressed throughout his LotR's work that his audience is largely a bit dim and will stop watching if something effects laden and blatantly exciting doesnt happen right away.

In fact its this thinking (beyond needing filler to stretch it to a trilogy) which seems to be behind the inclusion of Azog and much of the other more ridiculous unnecessary action scenes- dwarf/troll fight-bunny sled/warg chase/ -stone giants fairground ride, everything in the Goblin Town escape- Thorin proving he cant fight worth tuppence to Azog/ Bilbo killing a warg and orc, proving he is a much better fighter than Thorin, who is truelly pathetic..

For me the obvious way to deal with the difference in tone between TH and LotR's was to have Bilbo narrate the tale to a young Frodo and Sam.

This is in keeping with the book as we know Sam has been listening to Bilbo's tales all his life. And more importantly it allows for the difference in tone as it can be explaind as Bilbo telling the tale suitably for a child audience. It would also have been much shorter. And the opening sequence is far to long, as especially as nothing of any relevance beyond 'oh look its Frodo!- doesnt he look older?' happens in most of it. And as to altering the final line for no good, or even apparent reason, of the opening famous, iconic paragraph I am at a lost for any reasonable explanation. The only thing I can think of is that PJ deliberetly wanted to stick two fingers up to people like me who think his handling of Tolkien's dialogue and language throughout the adaptations has been nothing short of disgraceful.

Now these are just a few initial points, I could of course go on to give reasons and explainations for many more things about the film I thought were poorly handled or detrimental to Tolkiens original tales. (And people on here always complain those who are negative dont give thought out reasons, so I have offered some).

The point I suppose is that there should be room on any forum for a wide variety of view to be able to be expresed and debated without it becoming accussations of trolling and other unpleasantness right from the off.


(This post was edited by pettytyrant101 on Feb 7 2013, 3:53pm)


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Feb 7 2013, 3:46pm

Post #83 of 148 (535 views)
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Over-simplification... [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To

In Reply To
How do you know there isn't enough material for three movies? Have you seen the whole triology? I think it's too early for complaints like this...


This isn't rocket science.

LOTR-1500 pages-3 movies.
TH-300 pages-3 movies?

It's so obviously a cash grab, and I feel so sorry for anyone else who doesn't realize this! Frown



It is not that simple and you should know that. LotR was deliberately compressed and condensed to keep it down to three films. The less complex narrative structure of The Hobbit was expanded to round out the world of Middle-earth, providing a more complete environment for the characters to inhabit. The addition of the Appendices material just adds to that.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring


Otaku-sempai
Immortal


Feb 7 2013, 4:10pm

Post #84 of 148 (514 views)
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I won't argue about Jackson being prone to excess... [In reply to] Can't Post

I think that King Kong proved decisively that Peter Jackson needs someone to occasionally slap him on the nose with a rolled-up newspaper and say "Bad director! Cut some of this!" A good creator ("writer" in the original quote) has to know when to kill his babies.

'There are older and fouler things than Orcs in the deep places of the world.' - Gandalf the Grey, The Fellowship of the Ring

(This post was edited by Otaku-sempai on Feb 7 2013, 4:12pm)


Kassandros
Rohan


Feb 7 2013, 4:14pm

Post #85 of 148 (518 views)
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Yeah, we are shamefully turning a blind eye to all the faults. [In reply to] Can't Post

I admit - I enjoyed the movie. I didn't let the parts I didn't like as much or might have done differently ruin it for me and instead enjoyed it for all the wonderful moments. I am such an awful person for this. I'm so sorry. I really wish I could hate the movie. But I like it. Shame on me. Shame on me.

all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...


andwise
Rivendell


Feb 7 2013, 4:20pm

Post #86 of 148 (489 views)
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i think.... [In reply to] Can't Post

You're taking all this far too seriously my boy...in the words of jack sparrow 'you need to find your self a girl mate...'

Arrow....black arrow,I have saved you to the last.you have never failed me and always I have recovered you.I had you from my father and he from old.if ever you came from the forges of the true king under the mountain,go now and speed well


Kassandros
Rohan


Feb 7 2013, 4:23pm

Post #87 of 148 (490 views)
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Your use of capitalization prooves you're a troll. [In reply to] Can't Post

I really wish people wouldn't take this so seriously. The admins should delete this thread and ban this user immediately, IMO. Others have reported this same user trolling other forums.

all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...


macfalk
Valinor


Feb 7 2013, 4:36pm

Post #88 of 148 (490 views)
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Yeah, I've also seen the username Phibbus trolling on IMDB // [In reply to] Can't Post

 



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


macfalk
Valinor


Feb 7 2013, 4:47pm

Post #89 of 148 (467 views)
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It was his first post. [In reply to] Can't Post

And he starts with "Absolutely horrid" and then continues his rant in CAPS LOCK. Questionable.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 3:23am)


painjoiker
Grey Havens


Feb 7 2013, 5:18pm

Post #90 of 148 (467 views)
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Can you even call this an opinion? [In reply to] Can't Post

Absolutely not! It's a disgrace to PJ's classic. Wink

Vocalist in the progressive metal band Renamed.

(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 1:57am)


Vangalad
Lorien


Feb 7 2013, 5:27pm

Post #91 of 148 (445 views)
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Can't see why we keep feeding this [In reply to] Can't Post

Why not ignore it?

His purpose is achieved it seems...


All that is gold does not glitter,
Not all those who wander are lost,
The old that is strong does not wither,
Deep roots are not reached by the frost.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Feb 7 2013, 5:44pm

Post #92 of 148 (435 views)
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It's like picking at a scab. [In reply to] Can't Post

You know you shouldn't, but it's so tempting and hard to ignore!

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Feb 7 2013, 6:41pm

Post #93 of 148 (394 views)
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*Mods way up!* // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Feb 7 2013, 6:47pm

Post #94 of 148 (389 views)
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I always try to get my decent can-toys through sorry Denny's. [In reply to] Can't Post

That was hilarious! And very femine.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



elevorn
Lorien


Feb 7 2013, 6:50pm

Post #95 of 148 (391 views)
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Ooo lemme try [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm pantless, but I fail to see how this wellfit "film" is even remotely decent. Can you even call this buttonfly a film? Gracious goodness me! It's a disgrace to Tolkien's pants A shameless cash grab stitch, solely for the purpose of adventuring through cheap Lego toys and Denny's meals.
And speaking of which, WHY is it a pantleg? There is simply nowhere near enough legroom to justify THREE THREE HOUR LONG "films" even with the added stuff from the my pocketses, which only causes an unbalanced tone and useless exposition.
Just snug. __32, and that's being hopeful. One of the worst "films" ever made, save for "Lord of the Pants".

Wait did I do this in the wrong thread?Tongue



"clever hobbits to climb so high!"
Check out my writing www.jdstudios.wordpress.com


Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Feb 7 2013, 6:59pm

Post #96 of 148 (395 views)
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Who are you calling "boys"? [In reply to] Can't Post


Quote
There is a good reason ToRn has a reputaion as being the home of PJ fan boys


TORn is a very femine place.

Actually, your post was well thought-out and written. I'm a rabid Tolkien fan, but not rabid about the movies (LotR included), though I enjoy them for what they are.

I didn't see anybody shouting in this thread, though, except for the OP. Giggling and pointing, perhaps.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Feb 7 2013, 7:02pm

Post #97 of 148 (366 views)
Shortcut
Excellent! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



Aunt Dora Baggins
Immortal


Feb 7 2013, 7:05pm

Post #98 of 148 (467 views)
Shortcut
Because it's fun. [In reply to] Can't Post

Not quite up there with the femine thread, perhaps. But there have been some laugh-out-loud posts in this thread.


~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"For DORA BAGGINS in memory of a LONG correspondence, with love from Bilbo; on a large wastebasket. Dora was Drogo's sister, and the eldest surviving female relative of Bilbo and Frodo; she was ninety-nine, and had written reams of good advice for more than half a century."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
"A Chance Meeting at Rivendell" and other stories

leleni at hotmail dot com
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~



SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 7:47pm

Post #99 of 148 (455 views)
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Yes, I think that's the point. [In reply to] Can't Post

I thought it quite funny. Laugh

I'm a little disappointed no one called me on:

"If you swim with sharks, you're gonna get burned"

which makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. Sly


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Feb 7 2013, 7:52pm

Post #100 of 148 (435 views)
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Sure it does! [In reply to] Can't Post

 http://guy.com/a/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/7_Pyros-shark-Zippo-lighter.jpeg


sador
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 7:55pm

Post #101 of 148 (403 views)
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Ooh, I missed it! [In reply to] Can't Post

It's almost up there with something I've heard in my brief sojourn at a teaching seminary:
"We are not supposed to feed the students with a teaspoon. Our job is to provide them with stilts, to enable them to swim by themselves."

Thus spake a senior instructor, who has a long and successful career of teaching behind him. I kid you not.


Ataahua
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 7 2013, 8:13pm

Post #102 of 148 (422 views)
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It's worth keeping in mind [In reply to] Can't Post

that we don't like name-calling either.

Our new board member has strong opinions but he hasn't breached the Terms of Service yet. That this thread has remained should prove that we do allow discussions that are negative about PJ's films - as long as they stay within our rules of behaviour. This thread has brushed close to those rules a few times and we are keeping an eye on it, but so far it's OK.

Celebrimbor: "Pretty rings..."
Dwarves: "Pretty rings..."
Men: "Pretty rings..."
Sauron: "Mine's better."

"Ah, how ironic, the addictive qualities of Saurons master weapon led to its own destruction. Which just goes to show, kids - if you want two small and noble souls to succeed on a mission of dire importance... send an evil-minded beggar with them too." - Gandalf's Diaries, final par, by Ufthak.


Ataahua's stories


shadowdog
Rohan

Feb 7 2013, 8:14pm

Post #103 of 148 (400 views)
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HUH [In reply to] Can't Post

Did you ever try to swim on stilts??????? Evil


sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Feb 7 2013, 8:20pm

Post #104 of 148 (403 views)
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"I would agree that the OP post was not the most diplomatically worded OP ever, but that does not make the points or post, or opinion invalid either. In my view there is much to complain about in PJ's films, particuarly as adaptations of the source materi [In reply to] Can't Post

That's partially my point. As a fan of most of PJ's work who nevertheless doesn't agree with every decision PJ and co had, I'm more than happy to hear constructive criticism, as long as it's thought out and intelligently worded.

I am, however, going to take issue with your assertion that the people most impressed by effects are "dim". As an aspiring illustrator (and generally visually oriented person) I'd like to say that the visuals by themselves, are as important to the making of a great film as acting, or writing or music. And a movie sometimes exists for the sake of one or two exquisite shots that it contains, however awful the acting or the writing. The stone giants sequence alone (however disparaged it may be by some) is enough to make a short film of considerable artistic value, if only for the imagery contained therein. And that is what you'd reduce to the term of "effects", which is a terribly unfair outlook on cinema which is first and foremost a visual medium. My point is, AUJ is a beautiful and valuable work of cinematic art even if it doesn't live to anyone's expectations, and there's much to be appreciated or learned from in it, even when speaking of just "effects" which translates into thousands of hours of work by talented animators, 3D modelers and texture and concept artists.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 8:20pm

Post #105 of 148 (399 views)
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Wow, that's all kinds of mixed metaphors... [In reply to] Can't Post

maybe he wanted you should remember it?Laugh


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 8:22pm

Post #106 of 148 (410 views)
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What does [In reply to] Can't Post

spoon feeding have to do with swimming, or stilts? Would love to have been there.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 8:24pm

Post #107 of 148 (391 views)
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I miss Phibbus. Thanks for tracking him down for us. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 8:28pm

Post #108 of 148 (388 views)
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That references a P-47 Thunderbolt -- [In reply to] Can't Post

If you play with sharks you're gonna crash and burn.


(This post was edited by SirDennisC on Feb 7 2013, 8:28pm)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 8:34pm

Post #109 of 148 (393 views)
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Hey, long time [In reply to] Can't Post

Good to see you sinister... actually this thread has brought a few old friends back to play.

Smile


macfalk
Valinor


Feb 7 2013, 8:35pm

Post #110 of 148 (393 views)
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Well... [In reply to] Can't Post

A troll is a troll Tongue



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.


macfalk
Valinor


Feb 7 2013, 8:37pm

Post #111 of 148 (380 views)
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Of course they are not. [In reply to] Can't Post

They are not meant to be "children films". If that is what you expected when you went in to see AUJ, then I understand that you are dissapointed with the outcome. The label "children's book" implies that the book is of less value than other books which I find untrue, because TH is a lot more than a generic book for kids.



The greatest adventure is what lies ahead.

(This post was edited by macfalk on Feb 7 2013, 8:39pm)


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 8:42pm

Post #112 of 148 (375 views)
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Gah, I mean P-40 Warhawk [In reply to] Can't Post

and it's a tiger not a shark... this is getting worse instead of better. Laugh

If you swim with tigers you're gonna crash and burn.


arithmancer
Grey Havens

Feb 7 2013, 8:53pm

Post #113 of 148 (357 views)
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Not that I could tell the difference...:-) [In reply to] Can't Post

My first thought was "are those tanks"? (But Google says warplanes.)


JWPlatt
Grey Havens


Feb 7 2013, 8:54pm

Post #114 of 148 (365 views)
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Visuals & Claustrophobia [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
...the visuals by themselves, are as important to the making of a great film as acting, or writing or music. And a movie sometimes exists for the sake of one or two exquisite shots that it contains, however awful the acting or the writing.

You just described Ridley Scott's Prometheus. Ridley retains my respect for being a visual director, as I'm sure he does yours, being a visual artist yourself. But as a shepard for his writer, Damon Lindelof, and advocate for his audience, he was deeply, deeply negligent. Just remember that for yourself.

As for The Hobbit, the CGI Goblin Bridge and Rabbit Run sequences were anything but beautiful in more ways than just aesthetics. The rest was good.

Also, there have been more than a few posts here lambasting the stone giant sequence as, basically, overindulgent. The common point was made that watching them in the background, as it was in the book, would have been more artistic and pleasing than putting the Dwarves on the legs of the giants and in mortal peril with yet another one of Jackson's death fake-outs that no one believes because the story has been known for 80 years. Close-up action like that frequently removes the beauty of a scene when it should have been shot from further away to let us absorb it. The James Bond film, Quantum of Solace, with Marc Forster directing, was criticized for this same thing - the cinematography was too close; too claustrophobic in places.


(This post was edited by JWPlatt on Feb 7 2013, 8:56pm)


pettytyrant101
Lorien


Feb 7 2013, 8:58pm

Post #115 of 148 (365 views)
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I studied graphic design at college [In reply to] Can't Post

and these days I do 3D modellling and rendering as a hobby.
I have no lack of appreciation on both artistic and technical matters for the effects teams (and especially how long it takes to do, even 1 second of film)- but that does not stop the content from suffering from PJ never knowing when he needs a bit of restraint, or even when enough is enough.

Pj loves spectacle, and he likes to have a lot of it, even when, in my opinion the implausibility of it all, and the necessity therefore for his main characters to be 'invincible' or unbelievably lucky during it undermines any sense of peril.

Why should I care or feel that Thorin is going to be in any danger from Azog at the end when I have just spent the last hour watching him be bashed and thrown about on mountains, falling impossible heights and bouncing about like a ruber ball?
Effects should faccilitate the narrative- not replace it.


sador
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 9:00pm

Post #116 of 148 (348 views)
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Absolutely horrid, isn't it? // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


pettytyrant101
Lorien


Feb 7 2013, 9:02pm

Post #117 of 148 (355 views)
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childrens book [In reply to] Can't Post

I do not see calling TH a childrens book is any way derogetory- many of my favourite books of all time are childrens books, from Peter Pan and Narnia to Alice and Wonderland and TH. My favourite tv show of all time is Doctor Who (the avatar may give a clue)- a childrens show (theres a hornets nest claim!).
There is no implication from me when I call at a childrens book of it implying its lesser value in any way, shape or form.


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 9:20pm

Post #118 of 148 (335 views)
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Though I'm sure it would be [In reply to] Can't Post

lovely being there with you, Smile


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 9:23pm

Post #119 of 148 (323 views)
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sharks with lasers [In reply to] Can't Post

Thought you were channeling Dr Evil there

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


Aragalen the Green
Gondor


Feb 7 2013, 9:29pm

Post #120 of 148 (320 views)
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Sure is! [In reply to] Can't Post

The Hobbit craze that is.
I do like the website Wink

By the way, I noticed you changed your avatar too. I liked the previous one, was it from a Rembrandt painting, or another artist?

'"Never laugh at live dragons, Bilbo you fool!" he said to himself, and it became a favourite saying of his later, and passed into a proverb.'


GothmogTheBalrog
Rivendell


Feb 7 2013, 10:39pm

Post #121 of 148 (294 views)
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Well, [In reply to] Can't Post

I suppose it's my turn to say what I disliked in TH. Pretty much all thatI disliked was Radagast's bird nest and the poop in his beard. Oh, and the inclusion of Azog. I actually liked the entire Goblin-Town sequence.

"It was like a great shadow, in the middle of which was a dark form, of man shape maybe, yet greater; and a power and terror seemed to be in it and go before it." ~FotR


Kassandros
Rohan


Feb 7 2013, 10:39pm

Post #122 of 148 (297 views)
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OK. [In reply to] Can't Post

This time, without name-calling:

I believe that the OP, "GiantMushroomBear", started this thread with the sole purpose of getting an angry reaction from other posters here. I do not believe he or she was trying to discuss the movie in any constructive way. I believe he or she was seeing an ego-boost and personal amusement (known in certain circles as "lulz") from making other people upset.

There is an entire subculture on the Internet that glorifies these practices. Actually, it's not just on the Internet. I've seen t-shirts related to these practices for sale in malls as well. I simply used the common term for these practices.

all we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given us...


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 7 2013, 10:46pm

Post #123 of 148 (316 views)
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Ha [In reply to] Can't Post

you a must be a member of the female population Tongue

I did, i am very fond of the last avatar but felt like the smartest of the gauls is my mood now.Wink

Close one, Dirck van Baburen's The Procuress Smile

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!


Brethil
Half-elven


Feb 7 2013, 11:02pm

Post #124 of 148 (315 views)
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Hah! Bifur has his moments! [In reply to] Can't Post

Just saw this.Smile and if it inspires anyone else in the Company you might have something...
Off to the pants thread!

...she took the point at once, but she also took the spoons.


morgul lord
Rivendell


Feb 7 2013, 11:07pm

Post #125 of 148 (314 views)
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These "criticisms" aren't just weak, they're 2 months old. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


(This post was edited by morgul lord on Feb 7 2013, 11:07pm)


Bombadil
Half-elven


Feb 8 2013, 12:02am

Post #126 of 148 (469 views)
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Bomby will say it.. again.. [In reply to] Can't Post

People who can make Movies?
DO.
...
People ... who can"t
Become
Critics......


sharpened_graphite
Rivendell

Feb 8 2013, 12:45am

Post #127 of 148 (424 views)
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Agree on the "bouncing like a rubber ball", that was implausible! [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm not saying that the movie is perfect either. Just don't like the disdain with which the word "effects" is being thrown around sometimes. You've just outlined some of my issues with it too by the way. We need a proper criticisms and complaints thread as well perhaps? Not for one sentence troll posts and "absolutely horrid" sort of remarks but genuine, thought out stuff. That'd be actually a good read, and in some ways, more valuable than praise.

EDIT: To JWPLatt in lieu of double posting: I loved Prometheus but thought that it was the most joyless movie I've seen. Beautiful visuals, what I thought was a decent script, but all done with no intent whatsoever of "entertaining" the audience, which on one hand makes for very honest movie, on the other hand makes it all somewhat depressing and unrewatchable. Tho' perhaps hardcore sci-fi should be this way, who knows.

I know of the complaints about the Stone Giants sequence which is why I thought about bringing it up as an example. It IS sort of extraneous to the core story but could still make a lovely "abstract" short film about a storm in the mountains. Doesn't work as danger for the characters, and perhaps totally superfluous to the story, but still beautifully done.


(This post was edited by sharpened_graphite on Feb 8 2013, 12:52am)


imin
Valinor


Feb 8 2013, 12:55am

Post #128 of 148 (429 views)
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Does this apply to everyone? [In reply to] Can't Post

as in most of us on here have written reviews - critically appraised the movie - been critics - does this mean we can no longer make films? Tongue


MasterOrc
Rivendell


Feb 8 2013, 1:37am

Post #129 of 148 (413 views)
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Sure it's not the... [In reply to] Can't Post

mushrooms? Obviously your a big Nicolas Cage fan? Evil Your post really has me laughing....


Altaira
Superuser / Moderator


Feb 8 2013, 3:58am

Post #130 of 148 (405 views)
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Insults and rude comments have been deleted or edited out of this thread [In reply to] Can't Post

Sadly, all of them were made by regulars here and none of them by the original poster.

Was the original post a little rough around the edges, to the point of even being crass? Yes. But the poster didn't insult anyone, and still hasn't, despite being insulted him/herself.

Is this person a troll? Who knows? That's something only time will tell. What's disappointing is how many people here took the bait. If someone comes here with the intention of purposely trolling, and *you* take the bait, who's really the one to blame? Tongue

Has this person been trolling on another site? Don't take someone else's word for it - it's easy enough to google, which we did and didn't find any evidence. We Admins weren't born yesterday, you know - we're way ahead of you on stuff like that. But, even then, everyone deserves a chance based on how they treat people here, not someplace else.

May I remind everyone that if you really think someone is trolling, please contact an Admin and then move on.

Lastly, to those of you who rose to the occasion with a serious reply, good humor and/or *gasp* even welcomed this person - BRAVO!!! If ever someone really *is* trolling, that's exactly the way you should respond because it drives them crazy. If someone isn't trolling, it's exactly the way you should respond to welcome a new member of our community.


Koru: Maori symbol representing a fern frond as it opens. The koru reaches towards the light, striving for perfection, encouraging new, positive beginnings.



"Life can't be all work and no TORn" -- jflower

"I take a moment to fervently hope that the camaradarie and just plain old fun I found at TORn will never end" -- LOTR_nutcase





(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 8 2013, 4:11am)


Lusitano
Tol Eressea


Feb 8 2013, 4:03am

Post #131 of 148 (398 views)
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Thanks [In reply to] Can't Post

Smile

After all, even Trolls can be reasoned with.WinkSly

Vous commencez m'ennuyer avec le port!!!

(This post was edited by Lusitano on Feb 8 2013, 4:04am)


Starling
Half-elven


Feb 8 2013, 6:36am

Post #132 of 148 (376 views)
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Well, when you are swimming with sharks, [In reply to] Can't Post

if you wear your stilts, you are in a good position to see any fires, and then you can use your spoon to put out the flames.
Surely this is obvious?


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 8 2013, 7:45am

Post #133 of 148 (360 views)
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Though I think we may disagree on some of which parts were most difficult to like, I agree here. [In reply to] Can't Post

I loved the movie. I really loved and enjoyed it, despite the fact that there were parts that bothered me, in some cases quite badly. I have complained about those parts, and will again, but I have also praised the many things which I found literally wonderful about this film, and I will do that again also (though not tonight, dear hearts lol). In the end, for me and evidently many othes, the wonderful parts outweighed the objectionable ones. Others are entitled to think otherwise, though I do find it unfortunate when people make such extreme statements. There are so many movies that came out this year along that were almost categorically "worse" films than this one, and some of them even managed to get relatively high praise, so to suggest that the film is just "the worst garbage ever,". . . there were a number of things to dislike, but none of them were as odious as all that.

In Reply To
I admit - I enjoyed the movie. I didn't let the parts I didn't like as much or might have done differently ruin it for me and instead enjoyed it for all the wonderful moments. I am such an awful person for this. I'm so sorry. I really wish I could hate the movie. But I like it. Shame on me. Shame on me.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 8 2013, 8:21am

Post #134 of 148 (355 views)
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I don't agree that it is definitively not a classic, though I do agree with some other points. [In reply to] Can't Post

Time proves a classic, not merely critical reception. Many critics have been hostile in their time to works that were later love. This film, despite all of its flaws and shortcomings, has some very beautiful moments ( including much of that prologue you disliked. . . which meshed wondefully with the very to the letter of the book, beautiful and haunting choral of Far Over Mountains Cold) and some wonder inducing moments: enough for it to garner the love of many (many non-Tolkien fans who did NOT love the Rings movies for their weight and depth loved the Hobbit), and to be deemed a classic by many. There are many other films which are considered classic which do not offer as much. I don't see that the opening clashed with The Unexpected party. Even fairy-folktales that are trimmed and altered for the consumption of children are generally a fascinating merging of the grim and the whimsical, the magnificent and the comic. There really shouldn't be anything funny about the coming of a great dragon, and there shouldn't be anything serious about juggling dishware (unless it is a family heirloom! lol). I also object to the notion of film as a mathmatical equation. Life is not and neither is film. Film is art, and it needn't put everything in a perrfect, clinical fitting in order to be a good or even great work. That can be beautiful, or it can be cold and barren.

I do agree with you on several key points.

In my view there is much to complain about in PJ's films, particuarly as adaptations of the source material, but also just as films. (I would agrue PJ's verion is not even suitable for the target audience of the book)

"So the question then is why is not a classic film?
Well it is almost exaclty split 50/50 between an adaptation of the book and stuff PJ made up.

Claims that he was drawing on the appendix ect had some limited credibility before we had all seen the film, but it has vey little now we have as nothing has survived even close to intact from the appendix without huge alterations in service of the stuff PJ has made up.

Those additions PJ has made, particuarly the very artificial insertion of Azog into the story to give it more impetus is pretty disasterous
. "

Tis ^ I agree with, almost to the letter. I really couldn't agree more. I think Balin and the intensity of the moment salvages the Azanulbizar scene (and I agree, the graphic depiction of the fate of Thror was over the line for a movie which was not only inevitably going to draw many children, but which has ample evidence that the film makers were FULLY aware of that fact and filled parts of the movie with material quite specifically catered towards 4 to 10 year olds [no one else, save the odd man-child/woman-child is that amused by snot in soup and bird sh*t in hair]), but it is a far less powerful tale than the one the appendices give, and some of the changes made to the history of Arnor and Angmar for The Council scene are superflous and aggravating. The council scene itself is visually beautiful, well acted and at times compelling, but there are flaws, and, as I have lamented, while there are moments when the engagment between Gandalf and Galadriel is wonderful in it's intimacy, there are times when she very wrongly comes across too much as his supervising director (more service, no doubt, to Phillipa Boyens' wildly untested theory that Galadriel is the single most superbadass being ever to walk in any corner of Middle-Earth anywhere ever, since Ulmo and Orome were last here). And Bolg would have been a better choice than Azog. And while I thank GOD that we got to see Gandalf display his power and magic in a properly awesome display in Goblin Town (that part was wonderful, as, to my thought, was the balance of humour and malice given in the performance of Barry Humphries), the chase did turn a bit too much towards an Indiana Jones mad reel. And, I agree, Thorin's didn't put up much of a fight, especially considering he was wielding Orcrist. . . it is even more bizzare because the sword clearly had a powerful, forcefully repellent effect when he wielded it against the crushing blow of the massive Goblin King).

That said, with the exception of the fact that the five minutes of Frodo was about two minutes too long, I was mesmerized and filled with wondrous joy by the first hour of the film (and anyone here will tell you, I am not part of the Peter Jackson butt kissing department. . . I speak up whenever he does something I don't like! [I am looking at you Lindir, getting a damn cameo for doing absolutely nothing of interest while Glorfindel gets the cold shoulder again. . . and don't get me started on book scenes of Gandalf in full Wizard awesome mode that were left from the films. . . or the neglect of any commentary about the relation of The Three, The One and the passage of the Elves. . . I could go on]), and found that the majority of the rest of the film shifted for me between enjoyable and extremely enjoyable. In retrospect, I could have done without the stone giants (surprising, as I wanted them, until I saw they were actual, full on walking mountains), and I'd have liked a slightly more impressive (and book blue) visualization of the pinecone scene, but overall, I loved far more than I disliked in this film. It is certainly a classic in my esteem, though a flawed one, as many are.


In Reply To
the first is that there is certainly a perception that it is very hard on ToRn to offer any sort of complaint of PJ's Tolkien based works without what has occured here happening: 3 pages of people shouting down the OP, calling them a troll (I was accused of this myself in the past), or making silly statements that imply thinking PJ did a less than stellar job means you dont think anyone invovled with the film did anything right or were any good.

There is a good reason ToRn has a reputaion as being the home of PJ fan boys who will not tolerate any negativity about their favourite films- this thread rather indicates why that reputation persists, even if it might not be strictly true.


The second point is the problems with the films themselves.

I would agree that the OP post was not the most diplomatically worded OP ever, but that does not make the points or post, or opinion invalid either.
In my view there is much to complain about in PJ's films, particuarly as adaptations of the source material, but also just as films.
Which brings me to TH.

It is in my view a very average film that could have been a timeless classic film.
But somehow it is not, I think even the most vervant PJ fan here would not claim TH was the greatest film of all time, or even one of the greatest childrens films of all time. (I would agrue PJ's verion is not even suitable for the target audience of the book)

So the question then is why is not a classic film?
Well it is almost exaclty split 50/50 between an adaptation of the book and stuff PJ made up.

Claims that he was drawing on the appendix ect had some limited credibility before we had all seen the film, but it has vey little now we have as nothing has survived even close to intact from the appendix without huge alterations in service of the stuff PJ has made up.

Those additions PJ has made, particuarly the very artificial (in practise, feel and look) insertion of Azog into the story to give it more impetus is pretty disasterous.

During these parts PJ tries to recreate a tone suited to his LotR's film, but he has to sit it alongside whimsical moment like the Crack the Plates song. And it does not work well at all I would say, as the two tones clash from the off.

And that is leaving aside the way Azog just pops up whenever the script needs him without otherwise any rymne nor reason, nor the subpar pulp fantasy book dialogue.

I also think the opening prolgue was a mistake- I do think having old Bilbo narrate was a good idea, this is in keeping with the narrators voice present throughout the book and the conceit Tolkien got it all from the Redbook- but all the Erebor and Dale stuff, whilst pretty and bombastic is completely the wrong mood to begin TH with, Bilbo is an unsuitable narrator for that information, and its irrelevant because all the information divulged in it comes out in the telling of the story later anyway.

Its main purpose seems to be to have a big opening to the film wih some action and lots of effects. That seems to fit in with PJ's view, expressed throughout his LotR's work that his audience is largely a bit dim and will stop watching if something effects laden and blatantly exciting doesnt happen right away.

In fact its this thinking (beyond needing filler to stretch it to a trilogy) which seems to be behind the inclusion of Azog and much of the other more ridiculous unnecessary action scenes- dwarf/troll fight-bunny sled/warg chase/ -stone giants fairground ride, everything in the Goblin Town escape- Thorin proving he cant fight worth tuppence to Azog/ Bilbo killing a warg and orc, proving he is a much better fighter than Thorin, who is truelly pathetic..

For me the obvious way to deal with the difference in tone between TH and LotR's was to have Bilbo narrate the tale to a young Frodo and Sam.

This is in keeping with the book as we know Sam has been listening to Bilbo's tales all his life. And more importantly it allows for the difference in tone as it can be explaind as Bilbo telling the tale suitably for a child audience. It would also have been much shorter. And the opening sequence is far to long, as especially as nothing of any relevance beyond 'oh look its Frodo!- doesnt he look older?' happens in most of it. And as to altering the final line for no good, or even apparent reason, of the opening famous, iconic paragraph I am at a lost for any reasonable explanation. The only thing I can think of is that PJ deliberetly wanted to stick two fingers up to people like me who think his handling of Tolkien's dialogue and language throughout the adaptations has been nothing short of disgraceful.

Now these are just a few initial points, I could of course go on to give reasons and explainations for many more things about the film I thought were poorly handled or detrimental to Tolkiens original tales. (And people on here always complain those who are negative dont give thought out reasons, so I have offered some).

The point I suppose is that there should be room on any forum for a wide variety of view to be able to be expresed and debated without it becoming accussations of trolling and other unpleasantness right from the off.


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


pettytyrant101
Lorien


Feb 8 2013, 1:36pm

Post #135 of 148 (336 views)
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the prologue [In reply to] Can't Post

My main problem with the prologue is that its wastful in tems of time.

There is nothing in it in terms of information that cannot to be gained form everything that follows as the story is told. Yes it looks very nice and very dramatic but it slows up the entire start of the film needlessly.
Many critics complained the opening was far too long- and they are right it is I think, but not if you take the prologue back out- it works just fine without it, better I would say. And the exciting flashback could easily have relpaced all the shouty bits in the Unexpected Party scenes.
Everything from the transition to Bilbo leaving is good adaptation of the book - I could have done without a few of the excesses but overall its definetly recognisably an adaptation of the book- which is more than can be said for what follows in the film.

And its a shame PJ doesnt seem to know how to script a scene with multiple characters discussing something without it breaking down into everyone just shouting 'rhubarb' at each other until someone important stands up and tells them whats going to happen -Gandalf in this case- Elrond in Council scene in FotR.

As an ageing and life long fan of Doctor Who I am all for scaring the living daylights out of children - but there are ways to do it that do not involve having to show onscreen violence the way PJ does, but you have to be a bit clever and subtle about it- neither traits PJ seems to exhibit in any quantity in his Tolkien based work- there are 6 beheadings, 10 impalments and 5 dismemberments in the Goblin Town escape alone, right there on screen in a film based on a book aimed at roughly 7 year olds, its hardly subtle- I think that is more than in the entire LotR's trilogy which is supposed to be the adult one- and we havent got to the big battle in TH yet!


Rostron2
Gondor


Feb 8 2013, 4:37pm

Post #136 of 148 (325 views)
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Amen, Bomby. [In reply to] Can't Post

I could do twenty threads just like theirs on all their favorite films, and pick them apart for cliches and plot holes, but I don't. It's not constructive.

Let's start with Del Toro's films over on the Off-topic forum, and pick them apart, and see what they do. Or Nolan's...


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 8 2013, 4:56pm

Post #137 of 148 (314 views)
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* Buwahahahaha! // [In reply to] Can't Post

 


SirDennisC
Half-elven


Feb 8 2013, 7:06pm

Post #138 of 148 (319 views)
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O.o you wouldn't dare! [In reply to] Can't Post

Laugh

I don't think you'd ruffle too many feathers dissing Nolan anyway. Wink

Besides, it's not as if anyone has insulted you personally here... the same cannot be said of the OP.

(For the record, Radagast's make-up has hit the fandom on the GDT front more than a few times already.)


Escapist
Gondor


Feb 8 2013, 7:41pm

Post #139 of 148 (295 views)
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Awesome! [In reply to] Can't Post

I hope you are able to work out your issues with your pants Angelic


Rostron2
Gondor


Feb 8 2013, 9:01pm

Post #140 of 148 (297 views)
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Yeah Nolan [In reply to] Can't Post

*shuts mouth* :)


Bombadil
Half-elven


Feb 8 2013, 9:06pm

Post #141 of 148 (291 views)
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Bomby.. years ago was the Go-to guy about LoTR.. [In reply to] Can't Post

At work
... Many people walked up to me
and Congratulated me
when
Return of the King
swept the Oscars?

( like bomby... was the guy that WON?)

BUTT...."Mister all -Knowing"
( smartest guy in any room?)

walked up and said "We got up and left
when they left out the old forest and
jumped..Bree?
I refused to see
' either of the next two.."

Well
talk about being
".. Prepared to be disappointed?


AinurOlorin
Half-elven


Feb 10 2013, 2:02am

Post #142 of 148 (268 views)
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I disagree, in part. You are right that most of the information is elsewhere told, However, many of the finer details are left out. [In reply to] Can't Post

It is one thing to know that Thorin was the grandson of a mountain King, and they were wealthy, and a great dragon drove them out. It is another to see it, and I think, in the maain, the extended Erebor flashback did that better than a series of them at various points in the film might have done. Also there were many nuances and little details, as I mentioned. I do not think we have seen the last of one of the rings (or Rings) on Thror's finger. There is also the matter of The Arkenstone, Dale of olde, and Thranduil's unwillingness to lend aid (at least as perceived by Thorin, as being realistic, there was little the Elves could have done).

I only think it would have been a waste of time if it had no other value save in doing things which other parts of the movie already do. I think it provided more than information. It gave a proper atmosphere and context for the dwares having had a great kingdom, and having been driven from it by a mighty dragon.

As to the notion that Peter sometimes lacks subtlety, and that the violence was more extreme in some places than that in Fellowship. . . well. . . agreed. lol

In Reply To
My main problem with the prologue is that its wastful in tems of time.

There is nothing in it in terms of information that cannot to be gained form everything that follows as the story is told. Yes it looks very nice and very dramatic but it slows up the entire start of the film needlessly.
Many critics complained the opening was far too long- and they are right it is I think, but not if you take the prologue back out- it works just fine without it, better I would say. And the exciting flashback could easily have relpaced all the shouty bits in the Unexpected Party scenes.
Everything from the transition to Bilbo leaving is good adaptation of the book - I could have done without a few of the excesses but overall its definetly recognisably an adaptation of the book- which is more than can be said for what follows in the film.

And its a shame PJ doesnt seem to know how to script a scene with multiple characters discussing something without it breaking down into everyone just shouting 'rhubarb' at each other until someone important stands up and tells them whats going to happen -Gandalf in this case- Elrond in Council scene in FotR.

As an ageing and life long fan of Doctor Who I am all for scaring the living daylights out of children - but there are ways to do it that do not involve having to show onscreen violence the way PJ does, but you have to be a bit clever and subtle about it- neither traits PJ seems to exhibit in any quantity in his Tolkien based work- there are 6 beheadings, 10 impalments and 5 dismemberments in the Goblin Town escape alone, right there on screen in a film based on a book aimed at roughly 7 year olds, its hardly subtle- I think that is more than in the entire LotR's trilogy which is supposed to be the adult one- and we havent got to the big battle in TH yet!


"Hear me, hounds of Sauron, Gandalf is here! Fly if you value your foul skins, I will shrivel you from tail to snout if you step within this circle!"

"Do not be to eager to deal out death in judgement. Even the very wise cannot see all ends."


MouthofSauron
Tol Eressea


Feb 10 2013, 2:23am

Post #143 of 148 (270 views)
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the prologue had to be in there because [In reply to] Can't Post

it set-up later events and locations, characters ect... like the one in the beginning of FOTR.


take me down to the woodland realm where the trees are green and the elf women are pretty, oh will you please take me home!!


billzy2
The Shire


Feb 10 2013, 5:08am

Post #144 of 148 (278 views)
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Movies and critics [In reply to] Can't Post

 I'd like to stop being a critic and make a movie. Have you got a spare $400,000,000 on ya.



aarondirebear
Bree

Feb 12 2013, 7:59pm

Post #145 of 148 (229 views)
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agreed. [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I'm sorry, but I fail to see how this disgusting "film" is even remotely decent. Can you even call this garbage a film? Absolutely not! It's a disgrace to Tolkien's classic. A shameless cash grab trilogy, solely for the purpose of merchandising through cheap Lego toys and Denny's meals.
And speaking of which, WHY is it a trilogy? There is simply nowhere near enough material to justify THREE THREE HOUR LONG "films" even with the added stuff from the appendices, which only causes an unbalanced tone and useless exposition.
Just awful. -5/10, and that's being kind. One of the worst "films" ever made, save for The Last Airbender.


indeed. With the amount of filler they invented, they had no right to cut and/or abridge the amount of canonical scenes that they did.
\
Be wary, you are going to get a lot of flack on here for daring to disagree with the movie. So it might benefit you to act less angry because, apparently, that is a thing,

PS: You forgot Dragonball Evolution.

"Others are inclined to say that any two stories that are built round the same folk-lore motive, or are made up of a generally similar combination of such motives, are "the same stories." Statements of that kind are not true, they are not true in art or literature. It is precisely the colouring, the atmosphere, the unclassifiable individual details of a story, and above all the general purport that informs with life the undissected bones of the plot, that really count." J.R.R. Tolkien


aarondirebear
Bree

Feb 12 2013, 8:03pm

Post #146 of 148 (229 views)
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weong [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
were magnificent (minus the overuse of Frodo). Short of seeing the Dragon in his fullness, one could hardly have asked for a more well delivered Erebor scene. The Unexpected party was VERY true to the book, and was chillingly wondrous in its use of the Lonely Mountain song.


Um, how about getting the sequence of events a hundred percent wrong? Did you and I watch the same movie? They totally BOTCHED Erebor. They had Thorin and other dwarves at the main gate through which, in the book, NOT A SINGLE DWARF ESCAPED. They were all eaten or turned to ash. The only survivors of Erebor were those who a) were outside or b) knew about the secret passage (i.e., Thrain and Thror). Furthermore, they added a cheap scene with the elves in order to create a false conflict that did not exist in the book.

So yes. There are MANY ways that scene could have been handled better. While other people were going "ooh, ahh", I was too distracted by how WRONG it was to care about "teh epics".

"Others are inclined to say that any two stories that are built round the same folk-lore motive, or are made up of a generally similar combination of such motives, are "the same stories." Statements of that kind are not true, they are not true in art or literature. It is precisely the colouring, the atmosphere, the unclassifiable individual details of a story, and above all the general purport that informs with life the undissected bones of the plot, that really count." J.R.R. Tolkien


aarondirebear
Bree

Feb 12 2013, 8:10pm

Post #147 of 148 (217 views)
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Quite [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
But I have to admit, It's actually nice for me to see someone bashing this movie. It really seems like a lot of people on this board are willing to turn a blind eye to all the films faults simply because it is The Hobbit. While I enjoy the film a lot, I feel it has huge cinematic shortcomings that most "non fans" can pick up on right away. Usually, people around here are lambasted for expressing their distaste with the film. I'll give the OP props for turning the tables.

His points are valid as far as I'm concerned. The way he expressed those points is another story. Gotta give it to him. He made a successful thread.


Amen to that, though I couldn't personally care less about the "way" points are expressed since I believe in brutal honesty.

I am a fearless Tolkien Purist and darn proud of it.

"Others are inclined to say that any two stories that are built round the same folk-lore motive, or are made up of a generally similar combination of such motives, are "the same stories." Statements of that kind are not true, they are not true in art or literature. It is precisely the colouring, the atmosphere, the unclassifiable individual details of a story, and above all the general purport that informs with life the undissected bones of the plot, that really count." J.R.R. Tolkien


aarondirebear
Bree

Feb 12 2013, 8:21pm

Post #148 of 148 (319 views)
Shortcut
So [In reply to] Can't Post


In Reply To
I really wish people wouldn't take this so seriously. The admins should delete this thread and ban this user immediately, IMO. Others have reported this same user trolling other forums.


So you accuse him of being a troll for using caps, then you capitalize IMO? It's called EMPHASIS. Did it ever occur to you that he doesn't know how to use bold tags? No, you just jumped straight to the accusations of trolling.

I think you just want to censor any and all dissent against Jackson.

[insult edited out of this post]

"Others are inclined to say that any two stories that are built round the same folk-lore motive, or are made up of a generally similar combination of such motives, are "the same stories." Statements of that kind are not true, they are not true in art or literature. It is precisely the colouring, the atmosphere, the unclassifiable individual details of a story, and above all the general purport that informs with life the undissected bones of the plot, that really count." J.R.R. Tolkien

(This post was edited by Altaira on Feb 12 2013, 8:52pm)

 
 

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