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The One Ring Forums: Tolkien Topics: Movie Discussion: The Hobbit:
Thought question for all TORnsibs--when 'The Hobbit' is made . .
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Patty
Immortal


Nov 14 2007, 10:54pm

Post #26 of 59 (1169 views)
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Or all in Colts' jerseys... [In reply to] Can't Post

um, wait...

For Gondor!


Sunflower
Valinor

Nov 15 2007, 12:42am

Post #27 of 59 (1149 views)
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See.... [In reply to] Can't Post

this is just one of the myriad reasons why The Hobbit is going to be ten times more difficult to film than LOTR, and another reason why it must be PJ alone who does it. a decision on how many dwarves to have and who should speak, and what, and why, is more difficult than Aragron's character. I say all thirteen, but only Thorin and Balin and Fili and Kili should speak, for example. (Although that would be torture for the others....to be cast and all costumed up and not to speak, alas...)

I agree about Bard, and of course Beorn and his magical animals should be there! (I've actually thought about the animals: should the ones who feed the Party be CGI or not? I mean, you can train a dog to bring a candlestick in his mouth, etc, but carrying things on his back etc, is a stretch...And you have to find a way to do this that makes the animals look intelligent, as if they can do everything but talk, and as if they have been doing things like this for a long time. And show the magical bond they have with Beorn. But without it appearing to be magic,if you get what I mean.)

As to the Elves singing...LOL, "tra-la-lalley" in Elvish! ROFLSly. Obviously, the "hobbity" kind of singing must be cut out, but you can't have them singing like the lament for Gandalf or th solemn "Shire-woods" song either from the FOTR EE. I think a happy medium can be struck where you see a bunch of Elven warriors jogging forward to meet the Party as they approach the stone bridge, smiling, laughing and one of them carrying a harp and as they cross the stone bridge to Rivendell the camera can pull back and we could see a small crowd of women emerging from the house, also with harps, and we could hear a lovely Elven chorus, a little more uptempo and mostly of female voices, singing in an "accompaniment"


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 15 2007, 12:51am

Post #28 of 59 (1166 views)
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"Two Rings for the Elven-kings under the sky, [In reply to] Can't Post

Five for the Dwarf-lords in their halls of stone,
Six for Mortal Men doomed to die..."

See, there's no harm in cutting down the numbers.

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Sunflower
Valinor

Nov 15 2007, 1:19am

Post #29 of 59 (1158 views)
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To finish [In reply to] Can't Post

Sorry, I tried to edit that but it wouldn't let me.

I think a happy medium could be struck where as the Party emerges from the woods before the stone bridge, we see at first one Elf come forward to greet Gandalf, his face breaking into a wide grin, and then Gandalf smiling in greeting etc. Then more Elves emerging from the woods, jogging up to surround the party, smiling and laughing, looking happy to see Gandalf, looking only at him. A few of the younger warriors could be carrying harps. This greeting could be done in a slightly "slo-mo" fashion (you know what I mean, slo-mo as only PJ does it.) so the laughing Elves don't look corny--it is important that we don't actually hear them laugh but we see it. The music begins to swell (a new Shore Rivendell theme perhaps? ) Then we cut to a distant CGI shot of the ELves and the Party crossing the stone bridge. Then, a close-up shot of the courtyard of Rivendell through which Elven women are coming, also carrying harps, and they start to sing. Another distant CGI shot of the two parties meeting, as the song plays over like a musical "voice-over." Something in Elvish of course, but more lyrical, rythmic, the closest to "jaunty" you could get in an Elvish composition, What I'm trying to say is, something where you can clearly hear it rhyme and can pick out repeated verses. I'm sure Shore can find a way to do this! And finally, as the song climaxes, out will come Elrond--and Arwen perhaps.

It is important to see the Elves smile and laugh, and in the "slo-mo" dreamlike fashion, because we'd want the audience to make the connection to the "slo-mo" shots in LOTR, all depicting tragic events, and see what changes in the Elves the War of the RIng made. The LOTR viewer knows that the Elves do not show emotion; (we only see Arwen smile a few times and Galadriel twice.) I know book readers know Elvish history and why they are the way they are but I am talking about cinematic continuity here.) But it would have a great impact if the viewer was made to believe that just the rumor of Sauron alive and at large would be enough to take away their happiness. We know that the Elves had much of their souls burned away by the wars of the First Age but if PJ could show--as Tolkien did--that all joy was not quenched from them even in these days of darkness, it would havea great visceral impact.


Sunflower
Valinor

Nov 15 2007, 1:28am

Post #30 of 59 (1169 views)
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Ai! Ai! Brigand is come! [In reply to] Can't Post

Wink

My literary nemesis!:) Trust you to come out with an opinion contrary to mine! LOL...j/k.

Sure, I would rather see it cut down to 4 or 5 Dwarves, but it just feel funny after the book. It would be like PJ cutting out members of the Fellowship. Of course, everyone in the Fellowship had a role to play so you couldn't cut them out. But this is difficult. You want it to be faithful to the book but you don''t want it looking like a live-action Snow White either!

Let me just say that honestly the jury is out for me on this one; I don't know if I'll make up my mind until I see the casting....

And Brigand I suppose you'll be the first in line for Beowulf on FridaySmile I am just finishing that now. But then maybe not (Beowulf not being filmable either?)


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 15 2007, 4:23am

Post #31 of 59 (1125 views)
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And she was only 23 at the time. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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Sunflower
Valinor

Nov 15 2007, 4:36am

Post #32 of 59 (1140 views)
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?? [In reply to] Can't Post

Are you replying to me by any chance?Smile


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 15 2007, 4:49am

Post #33 of 59 (1200 views)
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Are you viewing these threads in "flat" mode? [In reply to] Can't Post

You may find it a bit easier to follow the direction of the conversation in "threaded" mode; I find it so, anyway, but to each her own. In this case, I was responding to Patty ("I would love") who was herself responding to Idril Celebrindal ("Don't forget Lobelia and the spoons!"), both of them hoping that Lobelia would be glimpsed at the end of The Hobbit movie.

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Sunflower
Valinor

Nov 15 2007, 5:09am

Post #34 of 59 (1130 views)
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Oops. [In reply to] Can't Post

I'll switch...thanks!


Mortimus
Bree

Nov 15 2007, 8:24am

Post #35 of 59 (1171 views)
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I'd say Thirteen is do-able, but... [In reply to] Can't Post

... I'd give lines to only six of them:

Thorin and Balin for obvious reasons, Fili and Kili because as the only other Dwarves to die in the story we ought to invest in them emotionally, and for the sake of what's been done before in the LotR movies - Gloin (and I wouldn't cast JRD - the man's suffered enough for his art without a further mummification by latex) and Bombur (because if we must have one comedy Dwarf let it be the one Tolkien intended so).

Actually, I've changed my mind - let the last speaking one be Dori, as Bilbo interacts with him and their relationship improves through the movie. Bombur's a bit of a one-note character so doesn't need lines (his humour is largely physical).

I'd keep Beorn because I find myself getting more excited hearing about him appearing in the heat of battle than those problematic Eagles. And no singing Elves.


Patty
Immortal


Nov 15 2007, 4:33pm

Post #36 of 59 (1170 views)
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I agree with all of this, however, I'd add speaking lines for [In reply to] Can't Post

Dwalin, as he is the first to come in, and we'd remember him better and movie- firsters would wonder why he never spoke again.

For Gondor!


Wynnie
Rohan


Nov 15 2007, 11:07pm

Post #37 of 59 (1144 views)
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Oh, dear [In reply to] Can't Post

I've been looking for 23's in Tolkien, but I'm not sure I wanted a Lobelia connection.




Perhaps under the shadow of the Unnamed some of the beasts of Mirkwood
are wandering hither to our woods. They have black squirrels there, 'tis said.




Wynnie
Rohan


Nov 15 2007, 11:21pm

Post #38 of 59 (1118 views)
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I'd like to see all 13 [In reply to] Can't Post

Other hopes:
- no major omissions (I definitely want Beorn)
- a significantly different portrayal of dwarves than what we saw with comic-relief Gimli in the LotR films




Perhaps under the shadow of the Unnamed some of the beasts of Mirkwood
are wandering hither to our woods. They have black squirrels there, 'tis said.




L. Ron Halfelven
Grey Havens


Nov 15 2007, 11:25pm

Post #39 of 59 (1136 views)
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That's going to be a lot of tattoos!/ [In reply to] Can't Post

 




Compa_Mighty
Tol Eressea


Nov 16 2007, 12:16am

Post #40 of 59 (1153 views)
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Thorin.. [In reply to] Can't Post

Thorin is obviously one of the four pillars of this story (Bilbo, Gandalf and Smaug being the other three)...

Besides him, I believe Fili and Kili are important... perhaps give Gloin a little more importance.

One thing I don't see many people speaking of is the end of the Battle of the Five Armies... dwarves, lots of dwarves!

Short screen time for Dain Ironfoot, but it should be memorable. PJ has to make up for the lack of dwarves in the LOTR trilogy.

Let it be heard! We want Jackson for The Hobbit!

[url=http://newboards.theonering.net/forum/gforum/perl/gforum.cgi?post=44439#44439]Essay winner of the Show us your Hobbit Pride Giveway!


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 16 2007, 12:38am

Post #41 of 59 (1086 views)
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Excellent point. // [In reply to] Can't Post

 

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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 16 2007, 12:48am

Post #42 of 59 (1104 views)
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Humbert... [In reply to] Can't Post

was the one who pointed this out, leading to much discussion here.

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Penthe
Gondor


Nov 16 2007, 1:30am

Post #43 of 59 (1116 views)
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Yes, they are so serious [In reply to] Can't Post

And so disparaging of Bilbo, but at the same time they lack the ability to deal with the situations they find themselves in all the time. Except when it comes to fighting goblins, of course. That's where you see how tough they are, and how not-tough in a physical sense Bilbo is. I wonder how that will play out?

I quite like cheese, you know.


silneldor
Half-elven


Nov 16 2007, 1:34am

Post #44 of 59 (1115 views)
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Lacking any number would only be considered by [In reply to] Can't Post

the bean counters due to their humane challenged souls.

And there better be 13 coats on those hooks at Bag EndMad....not including Gandalf's of courseSmile.

"Tolkien, like Lewis, believed that, through story, the real world would become a more magical place, full of meaning. We see its patterns and colors in a fresh way. The recovery of a true view of the world applies both to individual things, like hills and stones, and to the cosmic - the depths of space and time itself. For in sub-creation, in Tolkien's view, there is a "survey" of space and time. Reality is captured on a miniature scale. Through stories like The Lord of the Rings, a renewed view of things is given, illuminating the homely, the spiritial, the physical, and the moral dimensions of the world."

Tolkien and C.S. Lewis- The Gift of Friendship -Duriez


May the grace of ManwŰ let us soar with eagle's wings!

In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of ManwŰ S˙limo
By El~Cugu

From the website: 'The Realm of Manwe'



silneldor
Half-elven


Nov 16 2007, 2:04am

Post #45 of 59 (1105 views)
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For me, it will be interesting to see, [In reply to] Can't Post

 what length they will go to create a believable Laketown.

"Tolkien, like Lewis, believed that, through story, the real world would become a more magical place, full of meaning. We see its patterns and colors in a fresh way. The recovery of a true view of the world applies both to individual things, like hills and stones, and to the cosmic - the depths of space and time itself. For in sub-creation, in Tolkien's view, there is a "survey" of space and time. Reality is captured on a miniature scale. Through stories like The Lord of the Rings, a renewed view of things is given, illuminating the homely, the spiritial, the physical, and the moral dimensions of the world."

Tolkien and C.S. Lewis- The Gift of Friendship -Duriez


May the grace of ManwŰ let us soar with eagle's wings!

In the air, among the clouds in the sky
Here is where the birds of Manwe fly
Looking at the land, and the water that flows
The true beauty of earth shows
With the stars of Varda lighting my way
In all the realms this is where I stay
In the realm of ManwŰ S˙limo
By El~Cugu

From the website: 'The Realm of Manwe'



FinGolFin
The Shire

Nov 16 2007, 3:53am

Post #46 of 59 (1136 views)
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Peter Jackson Should NOT do The Hobbit [In reply to] Can't Post

 I know most of you are going to disagree with me on this;Peter Jackson(PJ)did do good with TLOTR. But, if give a chance(and lets think about this), there are other directors and writers who have come up with their own ideas, their own stories. PJ has addapted--and thats fine. But what shows TRUE film-makingship, is immagination, creating a story on your own. Like, George Lucas, Mel Gibson, amongst a few more. I am not saying PJ is the worsrt;not by any means. We just need someone else to do the Hobbit.


N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 16 2007, 5:25am

Post #47 of 59 (1179 views)
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Lucas? Gibson? [In reply to] Can't Post

I'm no fan of Jackson's LotR, but I doubt Lucas or Gibson would have done better.


Quote
PJ has addapted--and thats fine. But what shows TRUE filmmaking-ship, is immagination, creating a story on your own.



But The Hobbit is also an adaptation, that needs to do right by its source, as well as succeed as a film.

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Annael
Half-elven


Nov 17 2007, 3:49am

Post #48 of 59 (1131 views)
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gack! [In reply to] Can't Post

George "I love CGI and spaceships, not live actors" Lucas direct "The Hobbit"?

Mel "I love gore and violence and martyrs" Gibson direct "The Hobbit"?

Don't tell me Michael Bay would be another of your choices . . .

I'm not among the Peter-Jackson-or-no-one crowd, however. I think Alfonso Cuaron would do a great job with it, or possibly even Sam Raimi.

Outside a dog, a book is your best friend. Inside a dog, it's too dark to read.
- Groucho Marx

* * * * *
NARF and member of Deplorable Cultus since 1967


grammaboodawg
Immortal


Nov 17 2007, 11:45am

Post #49 of 59 (1115 views)
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Actually, Peter HAS created/written/filmed original work [In reply to] Can't Post

Have you seen The Frighteners? Brain Dead? Meet the Feebles? Forgotten Silver? Heavenly Creatures? They are all films that Peter and his filmic family have imagined, written, developed and filmed. The only reason there's any interest at all in The Hobbit being filmed now is because of Jackson's 10-year dedication to bringing a worthwhile adaptation of The Lord of the Rings to the screen. I think, if for no other reason, he's earned the right to do The Hobbit and its sequel if he has a mind to.

Even if he does/doesn't, that won't keep other adaptations from being done. They could be called There and Back Again, or A Hobbit's Tale, or A Hobbit and the 13 Dwarves. Whoever does the films... Spielberg, Raimi, Rodriguez or PeeWee Herman... it'll still be an adaptation and not an original work.

I'd LOVE to see others try their hand at an adaptation AND have Peter Jackson do his own version and AB test the things. A=others; B=Jackson. Hmmmm. A or B. A or B. Let the audience decide if others are capable of capturing the look and feel of the Middle-earth while honouring the Author's works that has brought you, me and everyone reading this here right now. I, personally, would welcome that. It would satisfy your very valid point that others COULD do the job and satisfy me that Peter Jackson is allowed to finish the job he started. It's not an either/or situation.



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"Barney Snow was here." ~Hug like a hobbit!~ "In my heaven..."


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N.E. Brigand
Half-elven


Nov 17 2007, 11:41pm

Post #50 of 59 (1107 views)
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No, yes, no, yes, and no. [In reply to] Can't Post

Nice comments as usual, gramma, but how about you? Which of those (including also King Kong and Bad Taste) is your next favorite of Jackson's films, after LotR? Having seen only three others, I would rank them Forgotten Silver > LotR > King Kong > Dead Alive.

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